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Our pal Elliot Fineman of the Campaign to Stop Gun Violence had something to say about what to do if you’re in a restaurant when someone arrives openly carrying a firearm. “My proposal is as follows: we should all leave,” Elliot opined on Facebook. “Immediately. Leave the food on the table in the restaurant. Leave the groceries in the cart, in the aisle. Stop talking or engaging in the exchange. Just leave, unceremoniously, and fast. But here is the key part: don’t pay. Stopping to pay in the presence of a person with a gun means risking your and your loved ones’ lives; money shouldn’t trump this. It doesn’t matter if you ate the meal. It doesn’t matter if you’ve just received food from the deli counter that can’t be resold. It doesn’t matter if you just got a haircut. Leave. If the business loses money, so be it. They can make the activists pay.” His followers had other ideas . . .




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  1. I have such an irrefutable disdain for ignorant gun owners that I can steal food from restaurants. In my thievery, I take the moral high ground, because gun ownership of every sort is inherently evil.

    / sarcasm

    • Haw. “What the hell was wrong with those guys? Oh well. You wanna split that burger? Dude didn’t even touch it.”

    • Well first of all you ignore THEM….go about your business as you now have your choice of several open checkout lanes.

      As THEY are leaving, with any unpaid goods, work with the store employees to help with contacting the authorities about the recent string of thefts at this store – as you are now an eyewitness to actual crimes being committed.

      THEN call the police yourself if any attempts are made by THEM to instigate violence toward you as THEY have just now BECOME a threat.

      Then as the dust settles after the police have taken all statements and you are told you are free to go, thank the police (if they do their job correctly), watch as any shoplifters are arrested, and then smile at THEM as you put your items into your car (if you haven’t already) and simply state – have a good day.

  2. They don’t have the guts to debate, what makes him think they will have the guts to walk out? They won’t have the safety in numbers like they do online.

    • I don’t have a problem with Elliot Fineman’s Facebook post except for the parts where he advocates vicitmizing private business owners. Freedom of association necessarily includes the freedom to not associate with someone — for any reason. He was half way to a moral way to object to firearms possession.

      It is telling though how quick he was to victimize innocent people. Thanks for showing who you truly are Elliot, a morally bankrupt person.

      I might be good if people called the police thugs with badges every time they saw a legal open carrier. Maybe the thugs would tire of investigating harassing peaceful people and would eventually just leave them alone.

      • “Thanks for showing who you truly are Elliot, a morally bankrupt person.”


        Please, please, PLEASE repeat this as often as possible.

  3. I think if Mr. Evans tried that he’d be surprised (and disappointed) in the results. About the strongest response I think could possibly come from me is, ‘Why thanks, I think you’re a fucking pussy too. Have a nice day!’

    • I’ve always preferred, “I’m sorry, but you’re wrong.” Used that on a bully who called me stupid when I was 5. It’s never failed to shut people down without stooping to their level or getting drawn into a dumb argument.

      • Actually I’d probably decline his invitation with the excuse that I’m a pacifist. Hopefully that would make his head explode. Anyway, people who carry open or concealed are not generally seeking confrontation and will gladly let a stupid comment like that slide, but he’s projecting his bad temperament onto others.

  4. So his solution to open-carry activism, which is not a crime, is to commit a dine-and-dash, which is?

    • I don’t think any of us were expecting well-thought out or rational ideas from anti’s. It’s kind of their thing.

    • Kyle, don’t take this wrong, as it isn’t directed at you entirely…

      I am sick to my ass of POTG making reference to me, as an open carrier, as some f*cking "activist." A decade or two ago people carrying under their shirts were the bad guys. Now, a bunch of mall ninjas have decided that the most "tactically sound" method of carry is concealed (to which I can argue at great length, but it's already been done ad nausem) so the rest of us who carry the way normal people have carried for a hundred years or so are slack-jawed, hillbilly, "activists."

      You people are no better than the antis, you're just not willing to take it as far as them… yet.

      • This is an excellent point.

        Dean’s article the other day pointed out that OC of RIFLES was normal and accepted as such up to the 1950’s.

        Where we stand today is where we get when we let the enemy set the narrative and control the dialog.

      • Oh right…mall ninjas.

        you mean every credible expert and instructor in the way of the gun? No credible professional will even address the stupidity of open carry because that is precisely what it is: stupid.

        the only ones defending open carry activism are those adamant about trolling for attention and showing everybody their dicked up equipment (seriously, you cheap fvcks. spend your video game money on a QUALITY holster and proper gear. You are as tight knitted as a soup sandwich. )

        so unless you do something productive, STFU. This former 19D will show you *mall ninja*.

        • 19D, huh? I don’t give a rat’s ass about whatever bullsh*t credentials you say you’ve got. The grocery store isn’t downrange and I’ve known enough scouts to not be impressed anyway. If you’ve got an issue because I’m not down with the tactikickassconcealcarryoperationaloperations, then don’t stand next to me in public…

          Mind your business and I’ll mind mine, high-speed.

        • “No credible professional will even address the stupidity of open carry because that is precisely what it is: stupid.”

          There’s always some goofball who thinks he knows everything.

          A number of nationally known self-defense firearms instructors were recently asked their opinions on open carry, and some of them said that in fact they were not against it. Erik Utrecht of Michigan Defensive Firearms Institute stated, “I fully support those who do responsibly open carry. I think more people should, but sadly most can’t handle the situational awareness required to do it properly.” He also noted the poor gear many firearms carriers select as being an issue.

          Steve Fisher from Magpul Dynamics stated, “I like the debate of it. [Open carry] is a right, it should be done, but it should be done smartly. It’s kind of like the debate between 9mm vs. 45. Who cares, as long as the person is smart about it and responsible? I see no difference between the two arguments (CC and OC).”

          And Michael Lamb from Stoic Ventures said, “Open carry is one of our fundamental liberties under the Second Amendment,” but noted that it can be divisive in some places. In fact, instructors who advise against it often use that reasoning, that it is not “normal” in many parts of the country and makes others “uncomfortable.”

          While it is true that there are instructors who are against open carry because “tactically they don’t want to ‘show their hand’ and want to ‘surprise’ their attacker,” it is by no means a universal position. And—as previously mentioned—there are people who lack situational awareness and fail to select the proper gear, so some instructors simply do not recommend carrying openly. Yes, it is a bad idea to carry a pistol in a cheap, open top nylon holster loosely hanging off of your belt while paying absolutely no attention to your weapon or surroundings, but I think it would be better if instructors took the position of teaching people the proper way to conceal carry and the proper way to open carry rather than just address the lowest common denominator.

          And what’s with the 19D? Still living in the past like a high school football star? LOL.

        • @Danny Griffin: I get tired of the good old boys throwing their MOS around like it’s relevant and anyone gives a damn. It’s not like he and I are going to show each other our 214’s so bringing it up is just talking sh*t anyway. I appreciate you throwing some quotes out there on OC, but it doesn’t really matter when it comes to guys like this. He knows what’s best and anybody who disagrees is probably a “librul” or something of that order.

          I conceal depending on what I am wearing, what/where I am carrying, and what the weather is like. I don’t open carry for effect, and rarely even get a reaction when I do. Ultimately, I just can’t wrap my head around “gun rights supporters” sh*tting all over their fellow gun owners for not falling into lockstep with their modus operandi. It’s tragic, really, how these guys make such caricatures of themselves.

          I suppose I should stfu though, or that 19D will show me a thing or two about mall ninjas.

  5. Wow, that Jim Evans is a real tough guy… (well, electronically at least). I didn’t realize that only ‘real men’ attack people for verbal insults. (In fact, I was always taught it was quite the opposite). Glad we have militant leftists like Jim to show us the err of our ways.

    • So not only do they suggest walking out on a food bill; but also they suggest threats of assault. Law breaking and violence; basically promoting being violent criminals.

      It’s no wonder most of the mass shooters have been Left leaning.

      • you are correct on this…they are idiots and tough only when they are on the internet……

    • Verbally assaulting an armed individual is not a very intelligent course of action. It’s not a bright thing to do even if someone is unarmed, but it’s significantly less so if they are. I’m not saying gun owners are unhinged or anything, but use some common sense. “He has a weapon. I don’t. I’m going to go over there and shout in his face and call him every nasty name in the book”. Because it never stops with just name-calling. Eventually you start pushing and shoving. If it goes on for long enough you’ve got a fight on your hands and HE HAS A WEAPON AND YOU DO NOT.

      • This is why having a hands free audio/video recording device is so important. I’ve had Audio/video recording glasses for a while. One press of a button on the side of the glasses and the glasses start recording.

        In day to day life; they are just sun glasses; but if some thing like this; or a self-defense situation happens; it could be a life saver in court.

        I don’t want to be Zimmermaned.

        • I carry an audio recorder and it is always on when I am out and armed, but the sunglasses idea sounds good. I’ll it google, but do you have a link to a good pair you’d recommend?

        • I started with I-Kam Xtreme glasses; they work well. Clear audio and video. There are other makes, some more expensive, some cheaper. Google video/audio glasses; you can see other options. For me, there has been a problem with them cracking in the middle of the frames; I have a big head and when I’m not wearing them, I sit them up on my hat which stretches the frames. So I’m exploring options for seeing if I-Kam has other models that would have stronger frames.

        • Zimmerman didn’t get Zimmermaned because he didn’t record the incident. He got Zimmermaned because of a political witch hunt. He got off because he cooperated with the police and the believed his story.

  6. Sergio: I think it’s not so much safety in numbers online, as safety in anonymity and being out of reach of any real repercussions from their statements.

    In other words, cowardice.

  7. So…I’m not understanding why a call to 911. You know who would show up? More people with GUNS!

    • I have a feeling it would be an anonymous call and they’d be long gone after making it.

      • since their intelligence level is already so low, they would probably call from their cell phone, which means the call isn’t anonymous.

    • Who statistically commit crimes at greater rates than CHL holders do. But we can’t let a good scare go to waste over facts, now can we?

    • Well, maybe the police would show up and maybe go after all the people who did not pay for their food and merchandise.

  8. In five years of OC’ing here in New Mexico, much of it in Albuquerque; one person left a coffee shop after he found out I wasn’t a cop. This was in the first few months of starting to OC. Now, the word has got out, most people don’t even take a second look anymore.

    This type of phobia really is a sickness. They truly need counseling for this.

  9. All you crabby folks that dont know sh*t from shinola, go out and mow your lawn or help an lol accross the street..

  10. Isn’t walking out on a bill a crime? I don’t think the restaurant or grocery would take kindly to THAT behavior. BTW a holstered sidearm could easily belong to a COP. Whatever…start a fight. I know who’d go to jail.

    • It is indeed a crime. Colloqially it’s known as ‘dine n’ dash’ or more properly, theft of services. And if OC is at all legal in whatever state this, this….jagoff is, I don’t think a judge would be very impressed with his excuse, either. I’m not into OC personally, but my advice would be to merely ignore the mad dog, carry on and enjoy the meal.


  11. This is just another example of projection of their own instabilities. Many gun control advocates are unstable and have violent tendencies and thus project their own problems onto other people. They believe that they are more intelligent and sane than gun owners, and that we must be dangerous, when the only dangerous people are themselves. These posts make that clearly evident.

    Most gun owners are more mentally sound in judgement and less violent.

    Just my $0.02

  12. This just made me physically sick.. I think Jim Evans hasn’t quite found the right gun owner yet…

  13. Another look into the mind of a leftist. They can’t live and let live, they have to try to attempt to create a situation by calling 911 for a non emergency and also look to starting a fist fight over words. What a childish mebtality. It shows their mental development stopped around middle school.

  14. Forget the violent fantasies in the comments and just focus on the post, in which a professional gun control advocate urges criminal behavior. This is why we don’t trust them. This is why we believe they’re “coming for our guns” despite their occasional assurances otherwise. They make it clear that they consider all (or nearly all) civilian keeping and bearing of arms evil and something that should be outlawed.

    • Yeah, you nailed it. To them, the ends justifies ANY means. That’s why they an unashamedly spread lies, violent hatred and deceit with no qualms… because after all, they have the moral high ground because all firearm owners are scum, so anything goes in their book. I think we all know their only desired ‘ends’ is complete civilian disarmament (ergo, socialist police state).

      And then they wonder why we don’t trust them…

  15. Spock: “But Sir, logic dictates that if gun owners were as violent as anti gunners make them out to be, there would be no anti’s left!”

  16. “And call them pussies” because “fistfights are the high road”…. Or something.

    I guess pummeling someone to death with your bare hands is the mark of a real good man … I guess.

  17. When you see stuff like this do you ever get the impression you are in a bad SNL skit? Seems the only thing keeping us from an all out physical assault are our firearms.

  18. Jim Evans didn’t say he would verbally antagonize an open carrier, he instead encourages others to do so. Somehow I doubt he has the courage to practice what he preaches, but if someone else gets shot following his advice I’m sure he’ll be the first to blame the gun.

  19. Antis ADVOCATING violent &/or Criminal Behavior ? The Brady Bunch boss saying, “Stiff that Restaraunt/store”,( notice, he Doesnt OFFER to DO THE TIME). THESE ARE who Should be INFRINGED , nut-jobs.

  20. Guys Guys!! Look at it this way!! If an anti gets up and leave you have just found the ultimate must have item: “Instant Asshole Repellant” keep OC’ing long enough and all the assholes will go away! For good!! It’s cheap, it’s Eco friendly and it’s free!!!

    • Local Walmart had a few of the fill your cart and leave it kind. After they were identified, they were asked to not come back, and arrested when they did. Think about how they would be self limiting. This could be fun.

  21. What these loons fail to understand is that most of the people in the establishment probably have no problem with open carry.

  22. well a man drove his vehicle into doorway of a resturant in killeen texas a few yearsgo,and began shooting people,he shot and killed i believe 23 before shooting himself . other live ones finally smashed a window and fled , they did not pay ,neither did the ones lying on the floor as they were dead-dead-dead. i dont know if the resturant ever collected for the uneaten or eaten food or not. now was this a crime ,? not paying? now if one person would have had a slung AR or AK ,they could have quickly dropped the shooter from the length of the resturant ,and the resturant could have collected for their served food ..

    • It was a Luby’s which means the victims paid twice; once at the register and again with their lives because there was no CC in Texas at the time. Fish in a barrel…

  23. In summation; “We don’t like you exercising your rights, so we’re going to break the law by taking goods/services we have not paid for, or filing a false police report. In our scramble for the moral high ground we’ll conveniently ignore the damage we do to business and that by diverting police away from actual emergencies we’ll be placing other lives at risk””

  24. This is the same mentality used to justify violence upon others who don’t agree with their (extremist) ideology. The same mentality that would advocate (and inherently justify) murdering a 19 yr old girl because she went on a Safari. And is in fact the same mentality that many ‘spree killers’ and terrorists use:

    ‘They are scum, so we can lie, deceive, and break any law or moral code (including murder) to get back at them, and we are not only justified in doing so, but are morale crusaders’

    I imagine there has to be some psychological term for this. Either way it’s psychotic.

  25. A bit over the top by both sides. Intentionally provoking an incident (and that goes for both sides, including carrying where it’s not welcome) isn’t going to win any friends.

    What happened to maturity?

  26. Wow, it’s always refreshing to see the complete & utter lack of sense displayed by anti gunners.

    So someone is exercising their 2nd ammendment right? Then he advocated and condones committing theft and leaving. Classy.

    You know what 2nd A’ers? If we all open carried at all establishments that serve or sell food within certain regions, we could starve the anti gunners out of it!

    See what I did there….

  27. So they’d leave the restaurant. Perfect! I applaud their decision. I find it impossible to eat when the stench of scheisskopf overpowers the room, so I’d be happy to see them go.

  28. I’d be interested to see how the restaurant would be able to make the “activist” pay when the gun grabbers all walk their checks.

    Fineman is a child. Like too many gun controllers, he has no logic, no sense of proportion and no knowledge of the law.

  29. Well, well. well,….it almost sounds like these people are crossing over into Orwellian prophecy with their dementia-like, mouth-frothing “two minutes of hate.”

    ~ War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength ~

    “1984” was not meant to be used as an instruction manual.

  30. “They can make the activists pay.”

    Under what law or precedent would I be required to foot the bill if I carry my Mosin into Greasy Dick’s Greaseburgers and a table of 25 MDAers who had already been served haul ass?

  31. “The trouble with our Liberal freinds is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.” ~ Ronald Reagan

  32. I’d invite Jim Evans to a local MMA gym, get him in the ring with the proper gear and then see how tough he is. This is, of course, assuming he even had the spine to follow through on his threat.

    • Would you really want that clown touching you? You don’t know where those hands have been.

      • No, I don’t know nor do I even want to know where his hands have been. But, I can tell where they will be: covering his bloody face after he gets his fat ass handed to him on a silver platter.

    • He wouldn’t go to a gym. I never open carry, but I would be MORE than happy to take someone outside, disarm myself and kick the shit out of them, then thank them for the great time, as I really like brawling.
      Also, when you go to a gym, there are rules of the facility. In a street brawl, everything goes and I really REALLY like kicking mouthy punks in the nuts.

  33. What is going to happen when open carry Texas passes and it’s legal for anyone to carry a gun in the open? I may just put on a old West holster stick at colt single action 45 on my hip and walk in to Costco at high noon! Just like the old West. I wonder if every one will clear the aisles and check out my be easier and not such a long line. LOL and believe me you’re going to see a lot of that sort of thing. I know one motor cycle club that’s going to carry nothing but old west 45 rigs! Get use to it anti-gunners!

    • My uncle and some of his friends did leatherworking when I was a kid and he has a bunch of those Old West holsters. The distinctive sound of the leather creaking is still cool to me now.

  34. What the dumbass has proposed is called “Theft of Services”. Depending on the location this can be either a misdemeanor or a felony. But to have people leave en mass? Won’t happen for a few reasons. #1- if they weren’t hungry they wouldn’t be eating- try taking a dogs food dish away from him while he’s eating. Yeah, good luck with that! #2- with all the video cameras around would you risk having your picture taken, passed around town as a thief? Only the village idiot and his side kick, butt boil would even consider doing this. As far as his cousin “Pussiewhipped” he can be introduced to my cousin, PISTOLWHIPPED.

  35. Here is an idea for these “progressives” who are anti-second amendment, anti-carry. Stay in your safe little cave and let the government bring food to you. After all government should take care of all your needs. And advocating theft of services and or destruction of another’s goods is criminal and your government will arrest you.

  36. Just more posturing from more sexist, racist, anti-Semitic, anti-rights, anti-Humanist bigots.

    None of them would ever have the courage to dine-and-dash. None of them would ever have the courage to initiate violence, especially against someone who has a weapon. None of them would ever even have the courage to speak up to anybody open-carrying; MDA psychopaths being clear exception and not the rule.

    Body cameras, people. Head-mounted GoPro. Record all public incidents and then stick them with the bill for the damage that they cause with their immoral “activism” (READ: LAW-BREAKING).

    • “Open carry is gonna kill the our pro-gun movement.”

      You think the states are going to change their minds and revoke over eleven million concealed carry licenses? The horse is out of the barn, Mike. LOL.

    • Most states already allow open carry of some sort. Most of those include hand guns. Most of those require no carry permit. The most recent activity is all in open carry’s favor. Recent successful open carry legislation has become law in Oklahoma, Arkansas and Kansas.

      Tennessee’s state Senate just overwhelmingly passed an open carry bill in April of this year. Granted, the state House overwhelmingly rejected it, so it did not pass, but the momentum is there. Change out the governor, and the House representatives who fear him will pass it next time. (State senators don’t have that concern because the Lt. Governor holds sway in the Senate, and he’s pro-gun.)

      Even here in Texas, both major party candidates for governor this year have specifically come out in favor of open carry legislation.

  37. Leave without paying at a restaurant when food was brought to you? yes by all means, commit a crime, call the police and then be arrested for not paying for the food you ordered and ate cause someone else scared you doing a legal activity. Good plan, by all means do it. And also make your threats of violence on the way out. More charges to be filed against you when the cops arrest your dumb ass.

  38. I see only the kinder gentler replies from this article. On a post of this article in Facebook there were replies that went as far as trying to kill the open carrier folks.
    It is a special person that argues the reason someone has no right to self defense is because they’re going to kill them.

  39. Third guy: And they call us extremists. Crazy sod’s cruising for a ballistic bruising-someday someone stronger than him is going to take offense at that and beat the ever-loving bullsh!t out of him.
    Second gal’s a brainwashed wuss whose answer to everything is “Eek! Call the cops, this guy is legally carrying a firearm that is protected by a constitutional right that I am in no position to trump but am going to try to anyway! Eek!”
    First guy-See above.
    Now that I have that off my chest, what Eliot Fineman is suggesting is thievery. It is bad for their criminal records, the shop’s business, and especially the idea of liberty. Open carriers are still humans aren’t they? You wouldn’t walk out of a shop because a Muslim walks in, Fineman? Or a black person? You wouldn’t walk out of a restaurant because an Asian person decided to have their lunch there? Whites, Muslims, African-American and Asians are all humans. You wouldn’t discriminate against them, so why discriminate against open carriers?

  40. Cool! I can go buy a nice, non-functional replica firearm piece, strap it on, walk into a crowded business establishment and clear out all those people who are SO much smarter than me simply by being there. A definite plus is that these people are self-identifying and self-incarcerating. I LIKE it!

  41. Okay I see the scenario happen some thing like this. “911 what is your emergency?” Yes I am at the Lucky Star Restaurant on Old Mill Road and a crazy guy walked over to the table and started screaming at me calling me a pussy because I open carry.” “Sir you said you open carry, are you armed now?” “Yes my firearm is holstered and I’m leaving now with my wife.” “The guy is following us and yelling for me to take my gun off and fight him like a man” “Hey get back I’m asking you to stay back I’m talking to 911 now” “Sir units are on the way can you describe the person?” He is huh… honey let’s go.. Just go to the car just go!” “Get back, get back I will fire if you get any closer!” Sir, SIR!” “I.. I have my hand on my weapon he is still cursing at me and my wife” “Sir I need you to…” “BACK OFF NOW!” “Sir the police are on the scene where are you?” “I.. huh we are in the car I’m honking the horn. Okay they are coming. Why are their guns out?” Sir I need you to stay in your vehicle and wait till the officers give you further instructions.”

    Local News headline: Husband and wife harassed by angry anti-gun patron at the Lucky Star.

    National headline: Open carry causes man to react to gun-toting couple terrorizing diners.

    Result: Anti-gun militants begin confronting people who open carry across the country. Tens of thousands of business owners ask people not to open-carry in their establishments. They feel it effects their business too much and while many of them support the right to carry, the negative reaction that may keep customers away is not worth allowing people to continue to open-carry.

    • Or not. But even in your scenario, obviously the openly carried firearm didn’t scare the other guy, putting the lie to the assertion that OC scares people.

      FreeMan NYC, do you OC or CC?

  42. All I know is I will laugh my a** off when they dine and dash with a officer in civilian clothes with his piece still on.

  43. So where is the email address or link where I can send in a report on one of these psychopaths??? How are we supposed to send in material if there is no place to do it?

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