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“When one man sat down next to a second man in a St. Louis light rail car and asked him his opinion on the shooting of Michael Brown, it was not the beginning of a discussion,” reports deploying UK-caliber understatement. “It was the start of an assault, police said. The second man, who was white, didn’t want to answer the question. Then the first man, who was black, boxed him in the face. Two more African-American men joined in the beating, according to a police report about Monday’s incident.” The video has gone viral. The Justice Department is investigating the incident as a hate crime. Oh wait. No word on that yet. Maybe even ever. If so, that ain’t right. Anyway, here’s CNN’s blow-by-blow account of the crime . . .

The victim, 43, was commuting home when a young man in a red T-shirt and cap walked up to him. The victim asked not to be named in media reports.

The man asked to use the victim’s cell phone. He declined, and the young man sat down beside him.

“Then he asked me my opinion on the Michael Brown thing,” the victim told KMOV, “and I responded I was too tired to think about it right now.”

The suspect, in his 20s, stood up.

“The next thing I know, he sucker punches me right in the middle of my face,” the victim said. The video showed the suspect unleashing a barrage of punches at the head of the victim, who covered himself with his hand and forearms.

The two other men, also in their 20s, joined in, police said. As the train pulled into a station, a security guard saw part of the beating and alerted police.

The man in the red T-shirt could be seen on video kicking at the victim’s face before the train’s doors opened and the assailants ran out.

Clearly, the Michael Brown shooting ignited racial hatred. The people who fanned the flames – politicians, so-called activists, protestors and race-hustlers bear some moral responsibility for this assault. Not that they’d entertain the idea for a femtosecond. Just for fun let’s see how the mainstream media plays it if, indeed, they do.

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  1. “The Justice Department is investigating the incident as a hate crime. Oh wait. No word on that yet.”

    You got me for a second there.

      • President Obama’s sons who were doing the beating would have engaged a Starbucks barista in a conversation on race if they could have found a Starbucks in their hood. In Springfield, IL, Starbucks has not opened any stores in the whole east half of town except for one busy street where there is some commercial development. VERY INTERESTING – they want us to engage in conversations on race, but do not want to locate in the areas where certain races predominately live. Hmmmmmm !!!!!!!! Can anyone explain this phenomenon to this unenlightened one?

        • the laws of economics for starters. Don’t put a high end golf pro shop in a ghetto, same as a overpriced coffee joint. Ain’t nobody gonna buy that crap, and it will probably just get robbed several time per year anyways. Areas with a culture of violence, drug use/sales and human trafficking/sex trade will almost never see any economic development.

          just cause they black don’t mean shit, where I am from you get white trash doing the same thing, almost verbatim.

        • Areas with a culture of violence, drug use/sales and human trafficking/sex trade will almost never see any economic development. The Liquor and Tobacco stores will thrive though.

        • If Starbucks could arrange to accept WIC or Food Stamps in payment for their Grande Lattes they could probably open in those neighborhoods.

    • I’m (pleasantly) surprised the ‘security guard’ called the Metro Cops, They’ve been known to let black-on-white crime slide. As always, the only people who are carrying are the criminals.

      I can hear wailing and crying for justice for this crystal-clear victim of a hate crime coming as soon as this hits the national MSM. Oh wait…

        • I know. Chosen ahead of hundreds of better qualified applicants who were the wrong color. Which is not racism because, gosh, I always forget the correct answer to that one.

    • Should’ve been a DGU, except this. I didn’t go near the Metro after the Brown assault. Had I needed to, well… concealed is concealed. Unfortunately, since the thugs expect the Metro to be a defenseless victim zone, they’re emboldened instead of deterred.

    • Here’s my dilemma. I volunteer every year at the First Robotics World Festival. As an engineer I’m big into helping next gen STEM kids. Like the last several years it’s at Edward Jones arena down by the waterfront. I’ve always taken Metrolink from the airport to my hotel by the Dome. I’ve gotten and given the stare down more than once. 1) I have to go on this train right past where this happened and 2) my 95 pound girlfriend comes with me. I’m thinking of bringing my CCW piece for once and putting it on once I clear security and retrieve my bag. How does Amendment 5, which just passed with preemption affect my ability to carry on Metrolink? Any lawyerly advice?

      • I think, “Don’t go stupid places and do stupid things with stupid people.” applies here. Hood rat infested public transit is probably best avoided. If you feel you need to carry to go somewhere, it’s a sign you probably don’t need to be there. Rent a car and avoid the savages.

      • Take a cab. While the fair is substantially higher than a Metro ticket, your legal fees (although highly unlikely you’d get caught) and risk of loosing your CCW are NOT WORTH IT. Also, while you’re at the conference, start to petition to get it get moved to a safer location and/or city. If they don’t move it and no one shows up next year…..they’ll probably move it. I’m guessing you won’t be the only engineer/professional/parent there that may not want to get stomped by low life bad guys.

      • Close quarters defense in a subway car starts first with a knife, then maybe, maybe, maybe…. a gun. Many gun owners mistakenly think a gun is the first line of defense.

        • IMHO, knife fighting takes more skill. I’m one of those who simply aren’t good at it. A victim in this circumstance would be justified making contact shots. I know that if I tried using a knife first, there probably wouldn’t be time for me to transition to sidearm when I ultimately failed with the knife.

          If the individual can do fairly well with a knife then I agree with you. For the rest of us, it has to be hands/taser/OC/gun.

  2. This is ridiculous, i wish people of all races would get along, but there is ignorance in every race and i wish i would’ve been on that train…i would beat at least one or all of them to a pulp

    • Poor excuse…we whites have beaten down the racial hatred of the north. I grew up in the south during the ’60s and never saw a violent act against a black and never heard the n word until my dad moved us north. Yes, St Louis area..

      My daughter tried to ride Metro…wasn’t link back then…and was made fun of and threatened by the blacks….

      Quit making excuses for trash!

    • I would applaud your heroism, I would also hope you live in the ‘burbs. Because if you interfere and go home to the Near North Side, things will not go well for you. Being called Uncle Tom would be the least of your worries.

    • “but there is ignorance in every race” Yep. But sometimes the truth in that gets lost in the dissonance. My friends who are black would have jumped right in the middle of that fight without giving it much thought. But, I wonder how much of us would have had the situational awareness to sense a set-up the moment the kid sat down as asked to use the cell-phone. As soon as that got asked alarm bells should have gone off. That’s really when the fight started. I’m not sure I would sensed that in a similar circumstance.

      I think this was a new version of the “knockout game’.

      • I was riding the train later in the evening(first mistake, but had to work late; I’ll uber it next time) in Dallas a few months ago when a young black man got on the train and started telling people how he was going to be the next “heavyweight champion of the world after he killed a white man in the ring.” Then he started going off on how white people caused all of his life’s problems. Genuinely the most racist person I’ve ever run in to. My alarm bells went off when he got on the train, but they really went off when I was the only white guy on the train at that point. Made a plan to step off the train at the next stop. Got harassed for “looking like a pig” and luckily he jumped off the train at the next stop before I did. I’m also pretty tall, and pretty athletic, and I generally have a “don’t f**k with me” look on my face, so maybe that helped. It was one time where I really wish my employer would let me carry.

        • Essentially your employer’s policies could have determined whether you lived or died that night. Work a couple of decades and you will realize that not only is your employer highly replaceable but that you can successfully conceal carry at work with no one ever knowing, if you tell no one, ever.

  3. >>The people who fanned the flames – politicians, so-called activists, protestors and race-hustlers bear some moral responsibility for this assault.

    So, no mention of actual racism uncovered by the DOJ that led to the resignations of the Ferguson city manager and municipal judge, as well as criticism of the entire Ferguson PD? No debt of “moral responsibility” for them?

    Do you feel any sort cognitive dissonance using “moral responsibility”, a favorite anti-gunner term? After all, none of the Michael Brown protesters had anything to do with this vicious beating.

    • 1.Speaking of the AG, I’m not taking any report from his office at face value without a ton of independent corroboration, particularly when the subject is racial politics.
      2. How do you know the perps here were not themselves part of the earlier protests?

      • 1. By parity of logic, is Wayne LaPierre morally responsible for accidental gun deaths?

        2. The report is available to the public. Even if you dismiss the racial aspects of the report, it is still very clear on the gross malfeasance practiced by the Ferguson city administration and PD. So why is Mr. Farago labeling the protests as racially motivated when the primary complaint is police brutality? In fact, the slogan of the entire protest has no racial element whatsoever.

        3. Is that even relevant? Mr. Farago referred to “protesters”, ergo, everyone who protested against police brutality is deemed morally responsible in his eyes, not just these three goons.

        • Is what relevant? Whether the perps were also among the previous protesters? Given your flat statement that none of the protesters had anything to do with this beating, I would say yes, it is relevant–at least to your point. So I’ll ask again, how do you know these guys weren’t among the protesters? And if you think the whole thing was about “police brutality” without a racial element, I have a hashtag for you: #blacklivesmatter. Remember that? And remember if someone had the temerity to say “all lives matter”, they were immediately labeled a “racist” by the supposedly non-racially motivated “police brutality” protesters.

        • The slogan of the protest on the ground was “hands up, don’t shoot”, not some stupid hashtag.

          So to entertain your notion of shared responsibility, if these goons were actually part of the Ferguson protest, is the entire protest movement tainted by their actions?

          Again by parity of logic, if an open carrier committed a crime, is the entire open carry movement compromised? Does the statement “the people at the open carry event had nothing to do with that crime” hold? Or would you concede to an anti-gunner saying, “how do you know he wasn’t at that open carry event”?

        • I would concede that you don’t necessarily know what you are talking about when you flatly state none of the protesters had anything to do with the attack here. You might try something like “the vast majority of the protesters had nothing to do with stirring up the racial pot by rioting over what they proclaimed to be a racially-motivated murder”, but even at that I don’t think you’ll get very far. The fact that you apparently steadfastly deny any connection between the “black lives matter” meme and the Michael Brown shooting, and indeed any racial element to the whole thing leads me to conclude that further discussion is pretty pointless, Nevertheless, I can’t argue against the general point that the actions of a few are not necessarily the responsibility of the many. Kind of depends on the situation.

        • I do enjoy how you rag on a meaningless point to defend TTAG playing the race card.

          By your own logic, why say vast majority? Why not “all but three”? Any response on the open carry example?

        • Anyone protesting under the slogan “hands up, don’t shoot” does indeed share responsibility. Brown did not have his hands up, he was not attempting to surrender. Every piece of evidence I have found pertaining to this incident corroborates Wilson’s story, from the behavior of the firearm he carried to the weight discrepancy between the two; the fact that they were the same height has never had any real bearing on this incident. Fighting sports divide participants by weigh class for a reason.

          So yes, even if they were protesting peacefully, by using the slogan “hands up, don’t shoot” they were helping to spread a narrative that even the racist Eric Holder has admitted was false, a narrative that has ONLY served to fan the flames of racial animosity and hatred in this incident.

        • Ah I see. So police brutality can only be examined through the narrow lens of a single incident, not as a problem that has been plaguing this country for decades. Because “hands up don’t shoot” (which obviously has no racial context) only applies to Michael Brown, not to the hundreds of people of all races (or possibly thousands, since most PD’s don’t bother reporting statistics to the FBI) shot by cops every year.

          Even if Michael Brown incident is fully justified, using it to discredit protests against police brutality in general is far more despicable than any “false narrative”. The only responsibility for police brutality lies with the police themselves.

        • The slogan “hands up, don’t shoot” was created based specifically on the Brown shooting and based on the false claim that Brown had his hands up, which he did not. So, police brutality was being protested through the lens of a single incident, so those protests, and only those specific protests, are hard to respect or take seriously.

          I’m also well aware that there were different groups of protesters, some not laboring under the false notion that Brown was an innocent kid targeted for murder by police, and trying to bring attention what they feel are injustices they face.

          My problem is that these protests, as well as national media attention, seem Rio crystallize specifically around incidents that turn out to be totally legitimate. Whether it’s Michael Brown or Trayvon Martin, which causes me to question the assertion that there is systematic racism and brutality faced by these communities. After all, if the incidents in question turn out to be an officer legitimately shooting in defense of his life, or a white Hispanic ding the same and the objection seems to be a near delusional rejection of the evidence that the deceased was doing something very wrong to warrant the shooting, then maybe the other points of grievance are similarly imagined. Maybe not as well, but the only window I have into the phenomenon are incidents that turn out to be totally legitimate.

          “So anytime a black man is shot dead…” No.

          There is the infamous, thanks to TTAG, stairwell shooting in NYC, the name of the victim escapes me as the media have not drilled it into my brain. The official police spokesperson account of what happened constituted an accusation of criminal negligence on the part of the officer, it fits the narrative the national media outlets are trying to create better than anything that actually gets national attention, but no riots. Some protests, which is good. And no, I am not insinuating that there were no real protests in Ferguson, there were. Some were good folks trying to call attention to injustices, some were people trying to push a false narrative, and I am holding all such groups as separate from the actual rioters. But back to NYC, even here there were people claiming it was clearly murder when the account of negligence sends to fit better.

          Now to the subway beating. It seems most likely that it was racially motivated. I’ve seen the accusation thrown around that anyone who thinks Darren Wilson is innocent is obviously racist, which coincides well with those willing to be violent over it. Those who believe Brown was murdered (and are willing to be violent over it) seen to believe that whites are out to murder blacks, which is in itself a racist belief. If three white men walked up to a black man and beat him for refusing to comment on the Brown incident I would believe that was racially motivated too. In fact any violence over the Brown shooting is likely racially motivated, since it has aggravated those who think either whites or cops are all racists out to murder minorities.

          You are more than welcome to go on assuming that my beliefs are all sweeping generalizations. Misinterpret to your heart’s content, please do, but the “hands up, don’t shoot” protests are pushing a false narrative of a single incident which claims specifically that the shooting was racially motivated which is specifically related to a broader narrative that blacks are being hunted by whites and cops, and by using that slogan are precluding the possibility of any honest discussion, and are therefore ruining their own credibility.

        • So, when Ferguson PD aimed their rifles directly at unarmed protesters and they responded by saying “hands up don’t shoot”, that’s really a false message because of Michael Brown? What about when 12 year old Tamir RIce was shot as he was raising his hands?

          The truly sad thing about Ferguson is that it takes a racial catalyst to generate protests against police brutality, and that when white people are murdered by cops, the white community simply accepts it.

          • The jackwagon officer who pointed his rifle at protesters was fired for that act, and Tamir Rice wasn’t shot while raising his hands; he was shot pulling a gun out of his waistband, while being ordered to put his hands up.

        • The only reason the Ferguson sweeper was fired was because he was caught on video actually threatening people. There are photos of another cop with an AR-10 sweeping the crowd and there was no action taken:

          As for Tamir Rice, here’s the video:

          Tamir Rice had no gun in his waistband (he was holding a BB gun) and he was given no command to drop the gun before being shot. So my bad, he wasn’t raising his hands, he was instantly gunned down. That’s much better I guess.

          • Tamir Rice had no gun in his waistband (he was holding a BB gun)…

            You just contradicted yourself. The “BB gun” was visually indistinguishable from a 1911 handgun, and was in his waistband. The video clearly shows him pull up his sweatshirt, and reach for the handgun.

            …and he was given no command to drop the gun before being shot.

            He was ordered to put his hands up, multiple times (quickly, to be sure, but the order was issued all the same).

      • Some of the cases described in the report are actual crimes, and should be investigated as such.

      • I’d say the answer to that is pretty damned obvious at this point. The guy in this story was about three or four more attackers and a tree from being made a strange fruit.

    • “Actual Racism”? Have you read the report? There were half a dozen emails with racial jokes, far more mild than the ones my black friends tell me, let alone the ones Chris Rock and Eddie Murphy used to get paid for. Some exchanges in poor taste, but nobody was “out to get them thar n-s”. The city was driven by revenue – welcome to every PD in the USA, ones without one tax will get the money one way or another. Were the fines different for whites and blacks then that would be racist. That the number of arrests was higher for blacks than whites, well, matches the national numbers pretty well. Blacks commit more crimes, that’s just the statistics. Is it because their black? I’d rather think not, because I know plenty that aren’t criminals.

      That report was a steaming pile of Holder trying to make Ferguson look bad, and if you scratch the surface, there’s not much there of substance that does not apply equally to blacks and whites who live there.

      In a suburb predominately black, there are more black stops and arrests. Part of ‘the culture’ is seldom paying you’re traffic fines, nor showing for court, until you get stopped again and arrested. Also using your cousin’s best friend’s license plates is popular. Which causes issues. Then there’s smoking blunts while you drive, and thousands of watts of bass that carries hundreds of feet, and…

      I know Ferguson, it’s just a working class neighborhood in decline. Most people black and white, have jobs, pay mortgages, try to do right by their kids. It is close enough to North City though to get a bit of thuggery in the mix, and they are a much higher percentage of criminals.

      That said, are they “racist”? Maybe a bit, but c’mon. The NYPD is Klan meeting with a lynching at the end by comparison. LAPD? You can’t even imagine, if you think Ferguson is bad.

      • Come on over to East St. Louis if you think Ferguson is bad…..even the cops don’t go there unless called.

      • “I know Ferguson, it’s just a working class neighborhood in decline. Most people black and white, have jobs, pay mortgages, try to do right by their kids.”

        From the very first, all I felt was sorry for Ferguson. People easily forgot that a majority black population repeatedly elected a mainly white city government. Although the people who lived there didn’t have much money, the town supported small business and the people there lived their lives and wanted the best for their kids. It wasn’t Underclassville. And then the race hucksters came and ruined it.

        • >>the town supported small business

          If you read the actual report you’d know Ferguson city hall was ripping off everyone and anyone without consideration to race.

        • I still do some business up in the area, it’s such a shame. It’s just not that bad. I used to stop at the QT they burned, never worried about anything. Most people were doing their own thing, and none of the sketchy ones wanted anything to do with me. They could have burned half of the Near North Side and nothing would be lost. But Ferguson wasn’t that far gone. Now, it is.

        • S-T. Once again, they did nothing that muni City Halls don’t do everywhere. Not a sanction, but it’s the world we live in.

      • 16V, now you see the absurdity of TTAG playing the race card on a bus mugging. Because if Mr. Farago considers this a racial incident, then surely the tasteless banter of the Ferguson PD is “actual racism”.

        No, let’s ignore race and focus on the meat of the report, the fact that Ferguson PD is run by greedy thieves and violent psychopaths who steal and kill people without regard to race.

        • Why yes black gangbangers should be allowed ignore any laws they want. From minor traffic laws, beating Pakistani store clerks, looting stores and of course assaulting police officers trying to apprehend them.

        • S-T, Let’s look at every other municipality in the US. Especially small ones in areas with inadequate tax revenue. They all look like this. There is nothing here than isn’t cookie-cuttered across the State and the Nation. The NYPD is basically a revenue generating device, LE is a side project. the work slowdown going on right now in NYC has cost over $50MM in rev so far. I’m not sanctioning the behavior, I’m just saying it is anything but an outlier.

          And regardless of fearless leader’s desire for clicks, this far exceeds the threshold for where a white on black crime would be the 24/7 on the MSM. Reality? Not a peep. If there is such a nonsensical thing as a “hate crime” (dangerous because it’s easily misused) this is definitely one.

        • “Ferguson PD is run by greedy thieves and violent psychopaths who steal and kill people without regard to race.”

          Who were repeatedly elected to office by a majority black voting population who—wait for it!!—obviously felt they were well served by the **white** (you left that part out) thieves and psychopaths they chose to run the town. The fact that a majority black population could elect a predominately white local government just doesn’t fit the narrative. Surely they all had to be gripped with some kind of false consciousness. . . or somethin’.

        • City bureaucrats and police officers were elected? Really?

          Also implying the citizens of Ferguson were given any choice besides murderous thief A and murderous thief B. Ain’t manufactured consent grand?

        • >> I’m not sanctioning the behavior, I’m just saying it is anything but an outlier.

          You’re probably right. But they do it because they know they get away with it. Perhaps it’s time we stop letting them get away, especially when there’s this mound of evidence conveniently made available? Perhaps it’ll teach some of the others to at least scale down their bullying?

        • Here is the real problem. Whites, Asians and women don’t commit their fair share of crimes. Perhaps the best way to equalize the rate of tickets and arrests is to randomly hand out tickets and arrest members of these three groups.

        • “Actual racism”? I’d say at this point it’s many blacks that are the new KKK. As documented in hundreds of incidents on youtube as well as in the book “White girl bleeds alot”. There is a race war in this country based on race. It racist blacks attacking random whites. Are all blacks thugs or racist towards whites? No. But when I see obviously racist violent acts by one race towards another, it’s blacks, usually plural, beating up if not violently murdering the whites. (Newsom and Christian)

          The “knock out game”, flash mobs where dozens if not hundreds of blacks stripping a store or business bare in seconds; rioting, looting and burning of stores and businesses not involved in any initial “outrage”, ie Ferguson.

          That when an “outrage” is used as an excuse for the blacks to march and protest, loot and burn; so far, it’s been shown after the fact that the black “victim” was just a thug, getting what he deserved. ie, Martin and Brown.

          Meanwhile, the old media is complicit in hiding this racist war on whites by almost never publishing the race of the attackers if it’s black on white, BUT, it will be front page national news when it’s rarely white on black.

          The FBI crime statistics also show this. Most blacks assault, rob and murder other blacks, but when it comes down to interacial violence; assault, rape and murder, it’s primarily blacks on whites.

          Yes, at one time, blacks were overtly oppressed, and murdered by racist whites and the system. Now it’s reversed, it’s the racist blacks attacking, assaulting and murdering random whites with the old media hiding the fact.

        • Oh…your right. So the white guy on the bus just had it coming I guess. Whites have no civil rights and are the only ones capable of hate and racism…

        • Oh Yeah Joel. I heard a black commentator on TV say with a straight face that a black can’t be racist because they are “Disenfranchised”.

    • Oh God, Blaine, now you have a reptilian avatar. Is there a hidden meaning behind that bro? 🙂

    • Yes, the protesters are responsible for the black racist climate in St Louis and other major cities. They are responsible because was all a lie and Brown deserved what he got. Even the Justice Department says that.

      But it’s not only a black thing. White guys like Rand Paul, Radley Balko and Jacob Sullum are also responsible because they stood with the race hustlers and the Ferguson gangbangers.

    • When 90% of the people who commit crime look a certain way, it only makes sense to use that as a criteria. After all, it wasn’t a bunch of Asians who ran a plane into the World Trade Center. The simple fact is that the “black” community glorifies this sort of BS. I use “black” because it has nothing to do with their skin color and everything to do with their inability to act like rational and law abiding human beings. As long as we tolerate hate mongers like Obama and Sharpton using the bully pulpit to encourage terrorism like this, we will not see the end of it.

    • It was pretty well proven that the Brown situation had NOTHING to do with racism, so no, whatever Holder “uncovered” had nothing to do with it. That behavior is unexcusable but so is crying racism in an instance where there is none.

  4. They beat the white man because he wouldn’t GIVE them his phone. The “gentle giant” TM pretext was BS. Bernhard Goetz to the rescue! Is carrying a gun more illegaler than beating the S##t outa’ the white boy???

    • Re Bernie Goetz; One NYC LEO I know commented at the time “He did more for law and order in New York City than the police have been able to do in the last 10 years”.
      A second City cop shared my first suspicion that the “victim” was an off-duty cop who didn’t want to bother with the paperwork involved in reporting the shooting. But he said he re-considered that possibility, since the average NYC cop is so poor a shot he would be more likely to wound himself and innocent bystanders, while the perps escaped unharmed.

      • And those black youts just wanted to “borrow” 5 bucks from Bernie…I myself was jumped by 4″ brothers”. . on the el in Chicago in the 1980’s. Back then I was a very large,very strong bodybuilder/weightlifter and fearless.I smashed a large idiot into a wall and chased them out of the subway. I worked at 430 N. Wabash so it was near there. No guns, no knives no anything…now I’m 30years older and a whole helluva’ lot less able…I go nowhere without being armed with something. And I like black folks-I.’m married to one…

    • Just be careful not to look guilty by fleeing the jurisdiction or saying something as dumb as he did.

  5. I’m guessing this post falls into the “shoulda been a DGU” category? Otherwise, I’m having difficulty seeing the relationship to firearms.

  6. “The evolving standard of decency that marks a maturing society.” Justice Anthony Kennedy

  7. And this is why concealed carry is on the rise. We can’t count on anyone to defend us against the mob except ourselves.

    Sadly, AFTER we are forced to defend ourselves, we’ll probably have to run and hide from the law as well.

    Ferg was a two way street, as far as people seeing the reality of the situation. The African Americans have seen that they can effect change by rioting and shaking the system.

    The rest of america also learned something. We learned that just cause someone is trying to kill you and you manage to defend yourself, the system will still destroy you. Ask Darren Wilson how his career as a police officer is going.

    If I tragically have to defend my own life from people like this, I’ll run for my life. I’ll not trust the “system” to defend me in the court of law. Cause it wont.

    • Don’t be Zimmermaned. Audio visual sports glasses. One push of a button and 5 seconds later you have hands free point of view audio and visual that is clear, sharp and can record up to 4 hours. But you would probably only need a few minutes at most.

      I bought I-Kam Extreme. Good glasses. Other brands are on the market. With the I-Kam, you just have to make sure not to bend the frames much otherwise they can crack on the frame.

      I have changeable lenses so that at night you can switch to clear lenses.

      So when I leave the house, check gun, check mags, check flashlight, check I-Kam, wallet and Leatherman. Good to go.

  8. Its not to hard to find the wrong white person to fuc* with these days.. only then will the department of justice lift a finger to hang whitey!

  9. This is why I limit my exposure to GFZ’s and carry everywhere I go. There is so much anti white racial hatred out there now a days. Yes white on black hate crimes happen but the incidences of violent hate crimes have swung to reflect a disproportionate of black on white violent hate crimes.

    • White on black crime of any ilk is almost an outlier, the FBI stats are pretty definitive. Even black on white crime is not the elephant in the room. The bottom line is that black victimization rate for homicide is 27.8 per 100K. The white rate? 4.5 per 100K. Both groups have close to similar numbers of self-on-self crime 90% and 83% respectively.

      The black offender rate for murder is 34.4 per 100K. For whites, it’s 4.5 per 100K.

  10. I’ve never been asked my opinion of the Mike Brown shooting, but if I was, I wouldn’t answer the question without my hand securely on my Smith & Wesson.

  11. Is this “truth about guns” or “I’m upset about blacks doing crimes?”

    (The Michael Brown shooting was the wrong incident for people to protest as it was not clear what happened. Same with the Trayvon Martin shooting. Peeps regardless of race should choose a clear undeniable incident to use as an example of an injustice.)

    What about white on black, yellow on white, red on white, white on red, etc. Report every crime regardless of race or leave it alone.

    Most of us come here for your fresh reporting and opinions on guns and gun issues.

  12. If asked, I’d have just said something like, “I think it was tragic what happened,” which is sort of a non-answer. If pressed further, I’d say that I don’t know enough about the incident as I haven’t been following it, but just the basics, that a black guy got shot by a white police officer, and the whole thing is tragic.

    I was expecting to read though that the guy was hospitalized or something, luckily this wasn’t that kind of beating. Really crazy I think was some years back when a group of black teens (about sixteen years-old, four of them) beat a white teen very badly (maybe to death even, I forget). Anyways, they were then invited to the BET Music Awards by BET and basically made into quasi-celebrities. I could only imagine if a group of four white teens had beaten a black teen and then were invited to say the CMT Awards. There was a group of black males who beat a white mother of four to death some months back, nothing on that. If it had been black on white, I am sure the media and Justice Department would have ignored that too.

    • This was not a conversation, genius. He probably would have ended up dead if he’d lamented white privilege and immediately handed over his money (which Inassuke is what we are supposed to do). These guys were out to beat on a cracker, any cracker, for being a cracker, because of some imagined frustration in their petty, trifling lives.

      • My thinking is that you try to diffuse the situation while taking into account that, as you said, it likely isn’t really a conversation and thus being on your guard.

  13. Hardly a beating, or justification to shoot anyone. He should have used his bag/briefcase to fight back. As much as he was boxed in so were they. That pole could have been a darn good way to smash some soft pieces and/or pin him.

    Definitely assault and a hate crime if it went down the way he said. This is not unusual. It’s par for the course in most urban areas and anyone who’s honest about it knows there are some areas white people should not go because stuff like this will happen.

    • I agree. No threat of loss of life or limb. Surprised by amount of people saying DGU. To those that would disagree, I would say tell me how you would justify to a jury you were in fear for your life, as I saw the second idiot throw only one punch (if you call it that). Now I would agree on DGU if all 3 had dude down on the ground wailing away Zimmerman style, you could plead disparity of force. Otherwise, this would have been a perfect use for a Fox Labs 5.3 fog and watch em start crying like babies..

      • Maybe James and Xwing should go the FBI UCR and look at the number of murders committed each year with hands and feet. It is far more than by all forms of rifles and shotguns. The other thing is you never know which punch is going to knock you out or when the 3 punks are going to stop or IF they are going to stop. This crap isn’t a boxing match with a ref and judges.

        • I just looked up my states statute, and I was incorrect. It doesn’t have to be in fear of loss of limb but in fear of serious physical injury, and head punches surely qualify. After introspection I realize I was too quick to judge the scenario.

      • Right before an incident and during, you have no real way of knowing how bad it might get. A person isn’t obligated to wait until it might get ugly enough. By that point, most people would be in so much of a position of disadvantage that their odds of winning the engagement would be slim. Zimmerman was damned lucky.

      • Punches can kill, tough guy. Especially if there is more than one person throwing punches, that’s potentially deadly force.

    • The use of deadly force varies from state to state. You should check your local laws, and refrain from telling anyone else what they should or should not do, until of course, you have experience being attacked by multiple individuals.

    • @ xwing -Coming from someone who has probably never been in a street fight in their life I am sure. The idea that this isn’t DGU worthy is laughable. The only people who say things like, “awww, they only roughed him up a little” are the ones that have never been in a street fight or mugging where the stakes include losing your life. Never mind facing down a 3 on 1 attack.

      The real Ferguson protesters have a right to protest the Policing their community received. From what I have read they have been getting screwed for a long time and I am sympathetic to their plight. Random race based attacks on innocent people as pay back is unacceptable and cannot be tolerated.

      • The real Ferguson protesters have a right to protest the Policing their community received. From what I have read they have been getting screwed for a long time and I am sympathetic to their plight. Random race based attacks on innocent people as pay back is unacceptable and cannot be tolerated.

        +1. ^^^This^^^

    • You are completely and utterly wrong. There is also almost no court of law that would agree with you. If I’m faced with three guys that show hostility and they start throwing punches, that by definition is a life threatening event. The gun comes out and I start shooting. I don’t have to wait until I’m on the ground head being slammed against the ground before I can say my life is being threatened.

      But this is also where you better have an audio/visual device to back you up because the court of public opinion as represented by the Old Media will automatically brand you as the guilty party for defending yourself from this unprovoked attack by these racists.

    • Hardly a beating, or justification to shoot anyone.

      I used to believe nonsense like this and I used to teach people the same. Then again, I used to believe in Santa Klaus. There have been a couple of incidents in my life that I should’ve drawn my sidearm but opted to use my hands instead. In the last one, someone bashed in the back and side of my skull with a heavy metal object that I didn’t see. I disarmed him and was able to walk away but not before I was injured badly enough that my career as a physician was destroyed. NOBODY is obligated to take a beating of any kind.

      You’re going to get innocent people seriously injured or killed.

    • Most of the people who are ‘murdered’ near me are killed when a ‘fight’ goes bad without any real intention to kill. Someone’s head hits something wrong is usually how it happens.

      If 3 guys decide they’re going to ‘fight’ me it will become a gunfight.

    • Hardly a beating, or justification to shoot anyone.

      Bull. A 3-on-1 sucker attack by younger, stronger assailants, in an enclosed space with no means of retreat = obvious justification for use of deadly force in self-defense.

      No one is legally or morally required to “fight” their way out of such an assault.

  14. Can you imagine how bad the race situation in America would be if we didn’t have 6 years of the great uniter’s leadership on race relations?

  15. If Obama had some sons, they would look just like the misunderstood innocent metro riders trying to help the evil white guy understand his guilt about white privilege.

  16. St. Louis will burn to the ground this summer if they don’t get out in front of stuff like this. Which is another way of saying St. Louis is going to burn this summer, because you can’t fix a problem if you can’t even identify it.

  17. Y’all say you’re sick of race-hustling, then post these clearly racially-biased articles and comments. An incident/article that doesn’t involve a gun, I might add.

    What these people did to this man was wrong (and hardly a beating), so maybe they should be indicted, like others should have been.

    • This should have been a DGU regardless of race. However, the perpetrators of this crime interjected race into the assault making this a race based crime.

    • Blacks regularly targeting random whites for “beatings” is by definition a race based crIme. This article and the comments posted are simply pointing this out; which the old media is actively ignoring.

      As for the rider being punched repeatedly in the head as well as kicked in the head would by definition be classified as battery, otherwise known as a “beating”.;

      So what would you Preston classify as a “beating”? Only if they are knocked unconscious with one blow, you know, like the goal of those blacks that play the “Knock out Game” when they attack random whites and Asians? Or only if you see brain matter oozing out of a split skull?

      As for me and the courts, as long as I have video evidence of who started the attack, I would be justified in using letal force to defend against said battery/beating.

    • You know, Preston, I think the following speaks for itself. The truth is not racist and logically should be part of the dialogue. Not talking about it is racist.

      “the bottom line is that black victimization rate for homicide is 27.8 per 100K. The white rate? 4.5 per 100K. Both groups have close to similar numbers of self-on-self crime 90% and 83% respectively. The black offender rate for murder is 34.4 per 100K. For whites, it’s 4.5 per 100K.”

  18. xwing says:
    March 29, 2015 at 07:52
    Hardly a beating, or justification to shoot anyone. He should have used his bag/briefcase to fight back. As much as he was boxed in so were they. That pole could have been a darn good way to smash some soft pieces and/or pin him.

    Really? Getting punched repeatedly in the head is not justification to shoot someone?
    In your world, do you need to be knocked unconscious before you can shoot back?
    I’m amazed at some of the apologists for this sort of behavior on this board.

    The real problem with DGU in this case is that the media, the professional race-baiters, and the victim-studies professors would be in high dudgeon over the shooting of these unarmed yutes who were jess foolin’ around.
    These ‘teens’ would suddenly be transformed into future astrophysicists who were just going to be starting college and good boys who didn’t do nuffin’.

    The victim of the assault would be transformed into an evil white racist aggressor.
    He would become Zimmerman and Wilson all over again.
    We would hear that: “blacks have the right to ride the Metro without being assaulted
    by vicious white NRA members.”

    There is no longer any fix for this… You’ll be damned whatever you do.
    We live in a country where Rev Sharpton is welcomed into the White House as an Presidential advisor.

    Unless you’re getting an NFL size salary, there is no job where the commute
    is worth risking head trauma.
    Since you can’t fight back without becoming the next white demon in the media
    you must find another way to travel, another job, or simply move.

    An early poster mentioned situational awareness.
    The only situational awareness that would work here, is knowing not to be there at all, ever. Drive, call a cab or Uber, or don’t go.

    After proclaiming that: “Hardly a beating, or justification to shoot anyone…”
    xwing goes on to say:
    Definitely assault and a hate crime if it went down the way he said. This is not unusual. It’s par for the course in most urban areas and anyone who’s honest about it knows there are some areas white people should not go because stuff like this will happen.

    And that’s the sad truth: “…anyone who’s honest about it knows there are some areas white people should not go because stuff like this will happen.”

    • Fire and walk away. If you stay, you will run out of ammo and be killed. And then keep your mouth shut until the cops come to your door, because I doubt they will.

  19. Am I the only one that noticed this chump throws a punch like my 82 year old grandmother? Actually, that’s an exaggeration; my grandmother has MUCH better form than that!

  20. Know what’s a great idea? TTAG diving into racial politics! That’ll surely end well.

  21. There is an unfortunate amount of bullsh!t with an incident like this. What I percieve is a criminal perpetrating an attack on an innocent bystander. I don’t believe he cares one way or the other what the man’s opinion is of the Michael Brown incident; he had already made up his mind to commit that crime no matter what the guy said. He saw an “easy target”. If the “victim” had asserted himself as a person willing to defend himself (DGU would have been appropriate) they would have run away sooner because they are cowards!

  22. I hope that some day I can claim I would be as understanding and forgiving as the victim, here. Currently, (sigh), I would have shot the punk. And I don’t care whether carry is allowed there, have they caught the punk? Then they would not catch me, particularly since I would not be stupidly posing for the camera.

    • I would’ve drawn and fired. But, I would’ve stayed for the possible arrest and trial. (Unless, of course, it looked others were going to seek vengeance… then Run away! Run away! 😀 ). I’m kinda idealistic and stupid like that at times. If things get worse on the streets this spring and summer, I hopefully would wise up and disappear before Five-O arrived.

    • That would be all fine and good unless 3 of them pulled a knife or a gun. I am under no obligation to step down a level when I am protecting my life.

      • Yeah, the knife stab/slash would of allowed time to draw a pistol. I don’t really see a way to go for the pistol first from the position the victim was in, and be effective.

        • When 2 good knife fighters go at it, one goes to the morgue and the other the ER at best.

        • ^^^ THIS. People who talk about using a knife in a fight when they have a gun have obviously never actually seen a knife-fight. Even if one person has a knife he still usually ends up bleeding. Most are terrible defensive weapons.

  23. You know I wonder if miniature cameras placed onto a gun, if/when they get them small enough to not affect the holstering and use of the gun, could help in DGUs. Like where say it has a light sensor, so that when the gun comes out of the holster, immediately the camera starts recording. This wouldn’t be guaranteed to show exactly what happened in a DGU, but for example for an Officer Wilson type scenario, it could have put to rest a lot of nonsense. as it would have for example clearly showed Michael Brown charging Wilson. While I would not want such cameras mandatory, I think it would be great if they create them at some point where we can attach them to hand guns.

    • Cameras the same size and placement of laser sights are possible right now. One could use the same holsters made for laser sights. You might be on to something. Body cameras are getting popular. I have one attached to my body all the time in public now. Perhaps there is a market. I wouldn’t use one but I can think of at least a dozen or more people off the top of my head who would buy it and use it.

      The camera would probably be blind during muzzle flash but it could still provide usable footage before and after.

      • In addition to muzzle flash, also the recoil would temporarily make the camera point in a different direction most likely. However while aiming, the camera would likely show what the attacker is doing since it would be pointing the same way as the barrel. I hadn’t thought of wearing a body camera, that could be very helpful in this day and age though, especially if you have to take public transportation.

  24. What does this have to do with anything about guns? Are you a race-hustling site now, huh? Every time I think TTAG might be reeling it’s political influence in, it comes out in flying colors! You could at least turned it into a “Shoud’ve been a DGU” article and why it’s important to carry especially when it comes to public transit, but no. You go all Sharpton in this. You don’t even mention anything about self-defense; this is a straight up CLICKBAIT. Dealing with the politics that comes with guns is already enough; so why the hell are you trying to inject more politics into this site?

    You should rename the site to:
    The Political Truth About Guns…and other political things that might be loosely related to guns, might be.

  25. It’s ironic that African Americans are some of the most racist people out there.

    Whomever said this would not have been a justified shooting needs to get off this board because they clearly haven’t read any of the editorials covering the topic.

  26. Now that a white pizza business owner has been threatened by homosexuals. The owners threatened with death. Because they gave the “incorrect answer” to a reporter. Will anyone stand up against the bigotry of homosexuals when they threaten the civil rights of law abiding citizens?

    When a rainbow flag waver throws a brick and smashes a window or vandalize a deliver vehicle or shoots the driver, will you stand up against this violence? Should the 2nd amendment apply in the defense of this pizza business?

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