Thinking the Un-Thinkable – Keeping a Medical Office SHTF Gun

medical office SHTF gun

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By Dr. Latebloomer

Some gun colleagues and I were having a conversation recently and someone mentioned a “SHTF Office Gun.”  I remember laughing to myself, saying something like – sheesh, can you imagine a Pediatric Office SHTF Gun? That would go over like a lead balloon (no pun intended).

But when you really think about it, we are a soft target, located very near a school. This startling reality was pointed out to me by a different friend when we were talking about Stop the Bleed recently.

I have a lot of friends who get paid to think about and plan for bad ‘SHTF’ things happening. Nobody gives them a hard time about that because they are LE and EMS. Their job is to think the un-thinkable.

But upon serious reflection, I get paid to think about bad things happening, too. It’s my job to think about awful things that happen to kids, and how best to make sure those things don’t happen, or to catch them quickly if they do. Vaccination, regular growth and development screening, monitoring and treating infections, following up on suspicious neurological signs – all of these things are part of my job.

So why is it unthinkable to plan for a violent drug addict or a nutcase mass shooter taking his “Plan B” to our office from the school down the street? Hell, some of the parents our practice sees are drug addicts. Our staff has people lose their shit at them on the semi-regular. Why then is it terrible of me to think about a response to these potential events?

This shouldn’t be un-thinkable. It should be infinitely thinkable and planned for. But the American Academy of Pediatrics treats guns as if they are a disease rather than a “vaccine” against dangerous predators. So you won’t find any office security recommendations on the AAP website. In fact, many parents would have an absolute cow if they thought a firearm was on the premises, just like they have a cow over the idea of armed teachers in schools.

All I want to do is keep a lead injection device handy in case of such an attack. But my practice partner would defecate a cinderblock if I did, so realistically it’s never going to happen. We have lit EXIT signs, fire extinguishers, smoke alarms, and every other building safety device as required by law. But nothing with which to protect ourselves should a violent person try to invade the premises.

With the wheels in my head already turning, I started thinking some of those un-thinkable things – as if I were writing an urban fantasy novel or something. I started playing “what if?” Except this stuff isn’t fantasy, it’s reality. Violent things do happen in the world. The chances of it happening specifically here are statistically tiny, but it pays to be prepared.

I started thinking – what if we went on lock-down due to an active shooter event at the school down the street? We have inner hallways away from windows where we could shelter people. We have more than one entrance, but only the main entrance is unlocked.

If we were notified by law enforcement of such an event, that door could be quickly dead-bolted. Somebody could shoot out a window for entry I suppose, but there isn’t a lot to do about building design after-the-fact. And installing bullet-resistant glass seems like cost-prohibitive overkill in a building that’s over sixty years old.

“IF” I kept a SHTF firearm at the office, it would have to be locked up. That is non-negotiable. I’m frequently away from my desk seeing patients, and there are tiny humans with curious fingers wandering all over the place. I also cannot realistically carry on-body during work hours as little children have no boundaries and are always patting on me and invading personal space. I would be “made” in short order. I’m thinking an AR pistol might be a viable option because of the smaller size, magazine capacity, maneuverability, velocity, and red dot.

Secure storage for such a SHTF gun would be essential. Secure-It has combination lock bolt-on safes that might work under my desk top such as the Fast box 40 and Fastbox 47. I bought a model 47 for home use, so it might work in the office too.

This would be strictly a defensive gun, obviously. I’m not Wonder Woman. Realistically, I’m not going to be clearing the building.

In the case of a lock-down, after we got everyone herded into interior rooms away from windows and doors, I’d be hunkered down behind cover watching a door that might get kicked in while we wait for the SWAT team to arrive or for law enforcement to announce all clear. I don’t have any illusions of heroism beyond trying to protect my office staff and patients.

It might sound crazy. It might sound “unthinkable.” But if I, as the firearm owner of the practice, don’t think about it, who will?

When I did an internet search for information about medical office security, I got all kinds of hits related to HIPAA and information security, but very little about the physical security of the building and the protection of staff and patients.

Dr John Edeen of Doctors For Responsible Gun Ownership (DRGO) has done a good deal of work regarding hospital vulnerability and advocating for workplace carry rules, but I haven’t seen much out there for medical office safety. Maybe I’m just not looking in the right place.

There is precedent here. Has everyone forgotten about the psychiatrist who defended himself and staff with his own handgun in 2014?

As much as no one likes to think about it, when it comes right down to it, a SHTF office gun may be one of the few cost-effective options we have to keep our staff and patients safe in the event of a violent attack.

 

Dr. LateBloomer’ is the pen name of a female general pediatrician (MD, MPH, FAAP) who enjoys competitive shooting sports, including IDPA, USPSA and 3-Gun.  Evil semi-automatic firearms are her favorites. 

This article originally appeared at drgo.us and is reprinted here with permission. 

comments

  1. avatar Casey says:

    Not for nothing, but that “doctor” in the image is about to have a really bad day.

    1. avatar St:Pro2A says:

      Really!! That jerk will shoot himself and the doctors’ groups will blame the gun and all gun owners. He probably isn’t a gun owner, merely a prop for he pic. Pic probably borrowed from some doctors’ anti-gun web site. Fortunately, the gene pool is often self cleansing.

      1. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

        I just thought he was about to commit suicide. Surely no one is stupid enough to do that unintentionally.

      2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        My thoughts as well.

        C’mon, TTAG editors…of all people, you should be seeing this kind of stuff before posting.

        1. avatar mountocean says:

          Yep. My only intention was to comment on the photo. Happy to pile on.

    2. avatar Art out West says:

      The “Office SHTF gun” should just be your CCW gun. Put a small .38sp/.380/9mm in a pocket or IWB holster and be done with it. An LCP2 or J-frame is incredibly easy to conceal. That’s it.

      Then, if you want more, add a bigger better gun in a locked location.

      1. avatar Randy says:

        … or a Seecamp .32 in a Sticky holster in your pocket (pants or shirt).

      2. avatar Jonathan-Houston says:

        A doctor, especially a female pediatrician, gets hugged by children–and even by their parents–all day. It wouldn’t take many hugs before someone felt that IWB firearm. The other objective here isn’t just having the concealed self-defense sidearm, but also avoiding detection. Consider it a difference similar to that between concealment and cover.

        What might be a better option is a flash-bang holster. There’s still hugging, but there’s more, shall we say, cushioning, to thwart detection. I might also invest in secure access doors, too, that would limit someone’s access to the rest of the office from the reception area. If the risk is that some shooter fleeing the primary crime scene elsewhere might end up in the doctor’s office, as mentiones in the article, then that limitation could serve to mitigate that risk.

    3. avatar VicRattlehead says:

      My first thought also.
      What a STUPID choice of image.
      HEY ‘DOC’, GET YOUR STUPID FINGER OFF THE BANG SWITCH!

    4. avatar Eric in Oregon says:

      It’s intentional. It’s not supposed to be amusing or illustrative of anything, just another stock “gun = menace” picture.

    5. avatar Jean-Claude says:

      This “never put your finger on the trigger” overreaction is getting a bit old. That’s a DA autopistol. Trigger pull is probably in the neighborhood of 10 pounds.

      Do you really think ANYONE will inadvertently exert that much pressure?

      I get the “rules”, and they’re great. But being a “I”m so clever I caught a boo boo” kind of safety Nazi isn’t a good look.

      1. avatar Eric in Oregon says:

        I get quite tired of people thinking that the rules don’t apply because some magical technology will protect them.

        Read, learn, google for more:

        https://bearingarms.com/brent-w/2015/10/23/beware-sympathetic-squeeze/

        1. avatar Jean-Claude says:

          I’m tired of people thinking there’s a set hard and fast rule for every situation.

          Nobody’s inadvertently pulling a DA autopistol or revolver trigger. 10 pounds. An inch worth of travel.

          Not all handguns are Glocks.

        2. avatar Eric in Oregon says:

          That is a genuinely idiotic comment.

  2. avatar Jay in Florida says:

    Every place of business from the corner store to a local quacks office should have a SHTF plan.
    Im it in my store.
    Although Ive told everyone who works with me. Your on your own so to speak. If someone comes in to say rob the register. Give them the money. If its threat with a drawn gun. That changes things to a degree.
    Just don’t depend on me to stop everything. Im not included in your SHTF plans. Might be in my own though.

  3. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    This is well thought out. As I like to tell people who think that keeping a gun in the workplace or at home for these situations is “looking for a armed encounter:”

    “By your logic, we should arrest everyone who has a fire extinguisher in their home for suspected arson.”

    Being prepared doesn’t mean you’re hoping for something to happen. It means you’re prepared for the possibility.

    One NB for medical providers about office security: It won’t be too much longer before you see addicts start holding up medical offices for drugs. The number of people who are getting quite bold about seeking opiates is rising. Right now, they’re stealing ambulances and breaking into the DEA-controlled meds case with a crowbar or hammer. Once the EMS community makes it tougher to score dope off a bus (probably by upgrading the secure container in which we carry the DEA-controlled meds, such as fentanyl and morphine), they’re going to be coming into MD’s offices.

    1. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

      My office doesn’t keep any drugs in the office anymore. Keeps the ‘shoppers’ away, also. If a patient needs pain medication, we write a prescription. If it’s THAT bad, they go to the ER. ( p.s. I like the “lead injection device”, funny)

      1. avatar GaPharmD says:

        They will never hit a physician’s office before a pharmacy. We have thousands and thousands of all manner of drugs. They do hit us from time to time but we have a pretty good rep for firing back and handling our own.

        1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

          They will when the pharmacists are known to be armed long, long before MD’s are.

          Pharmacists have been dealing with the dope-seekers for over a decade now, and many pharmacists are already tooled and trained.

          This is also common knowledge among the dopers – which is why they’re stealing a bus to get at the three/four vials of opiates on board.

        2. avatar MarkPA says:

          “They will never hit a physician’s office before a pharmacy.” There is a flaw in this reasoning that ought to be obvious.

          If we were contemplating a contingency where the operator could be presumed to be rational then we could organize our thinking about counter-measures using reason. E.g., imagine a jeweler contemplating an off-hours burglary. He can presume that someone attempting such a crime is in reasonable control of his mental faculties and will choose his target and plan accordingly. He can reason about what measures to take to make his store’s vulnerability lower than that of his neighboring competitor.

          Conversely, many situations are – OBVIOUSLY – ones in which there is NO reasonable basis for a presumption of a rational actor. Why would we suppose a drug-addict in desperate need of his next fix would choose his target and formulate a plan of attack that conforms to our reasoning (as a pharmacist or doctor, for example) about his best chance of success?

          We must recognize that – BY DEFINITION – when the actor is operating from some mental disability, then we can’t hope to out-reason his plan of attack.

          This admonition has significant applicability to our concern for mass-shooters. No matter how we might reason about out-maneuvering actors intending a mass attack, we ought to realize that we are barking up the wrong tree. Such as these will always think outside the box and defeat our best laid plan of mice.

          Once a mental defect is presumed we need a totally different approach than reasoning about the actor’s rational analysis.

        3. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

          Personally had our office destroyed by someone looking for narcotics. So you’re wrong. PharmD

        4. avatar GaPharmD says:

          And how many of which narcotics did they get away with. Sure I agree we aren’t dealing with rational decision makers but criminals are looking for the easy way out with best results and pharmacies provide that far and away above what they could get from a physicians office. Seekers prefer stealing rx pads from the Docs. Way easier and can gain far more access.

          When the numbers start to get even close then I will begin to believe the target has changed but with drugs and cash I know how. Big of a target we are.

        5. avatar Jonathan-Houston says:

          I had three wisdom teeth extracted in January and my oral surgeon prescribed some fairly heavy duty pain meds. They weren’t opiates, but were serious enough that the Walmart pharmacy had to double with the doctor’s office. They also had to wait a little time for filling because those meds are kept in a safe of sorts with timed access; similar to drop safes at convenience stores, I surmise, that only allow access to extra cash in twenty dollar increments in two minute windows. I don’t know how common that is.

          I would expect thieves to hit veterinarians first. They have opiates for prescription on site. Vets are generally less crowded than a pharmacy, too.

    2. avatar Ardent says:

      You’re usually spot on DG, but this time you’ve blown it. MDs offices haven’t had good drugs in them for more than 2 decades and the addicts know it. Also, opiate addicts are now so well supplied with suboxone that they are never desperate anymore and highly unlikely to commit armed robberies for drugs. Further still, as someone has pointed out already, pharmacies make much better targets because they actually do have opiods and junkies know it…
      That being said, at this point a pharmacy robbery has little to do with need and everything to do with profit. Again, the street being so flooded with suboxone no one is jonesing basically ever, and the motivation to commit such a crime is basically zero.

      Because MDs don’t keep good stuff on premises and this fact is well known, and since addicts are basically never desperate anymore, the author has it right: If an MDs office is attacked, it’s a nutter, not an addict.

  4. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

    Good stuff. We had an active shooter threat a my workplace not too long ago. A family member of a former patient left a threatening note.

    Any idea what happened to the DR. mentioned in the 2014 incident?
    “There is precedent here. Has everyone forgotten about the psychiatrist who defended himself and staff with his own handgun in 2014?”

    1. avatar GS650G says:

      No charges. Happened not far from me

      1. avatar Geoff "Guns. Lots of guns." PR says:

        No charges, and the last I heard, he kept his job.

        There’s Fentanyl on the ambulances down here, that’s what I got when I took un-planned flying lessons last December. Very effective for shattered bones, but rather short-acting. My dose was wearing off after about 45 min, about the time I hit the ER. Then morphine ’till after the surgery.

        I could easily see why it would be *very* popular with the junkie crowd…

        1. avatar jwm says:

          Morphine. I do not do recreational drugs. But after a trip to the er and a shot of morphine…… if I was to do recreational drugs it would be morphine.

          Drug free. Alcohol free. Tobacco free. Debt free. Means you’re free.

    2. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      Had a similar scare at my old school. A colleague who was involved began carrying. Despite the fact that we were a “gun-free” school and all that, a select few of us knew he was armed but were discrete enough not to say anything about it. Lesson learned. If you feel the need to arm your workplace Don’t Say Anything To Anybody About It.

  5. avatar billy-bob says:

    It’s called concealed carry. That way your partner doesn’t know, and if the SHTF, you might make it to that SHTF gun you have locked up in the safe.

    1. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

      I don’t understand the kids “patting on me and invading personal space”. My kids never touched anyone in the doctor’s office. What’s wrong with parents? Keep your hands to yourself, honey. Of course, I always added, “Don’t touch anything it’s full of germs!”

      1. avatar Hank says:

        Yeah there’s a serious problem with the way kids are raised these days. I know exactly what this doctor is talking about. They’ll just randomly without warning jam their hands into people’s pockets and other things. Incredibly disrespectful too. 30 years ago when I was a kid I would’ve caught a serious ass whipping for such behavior. It’s only in the last 10 years give or take I’ve noticed tons of kids act like this. Like no one has ever told them the word no or taught them to respect other adults, or anything about personal space.

        1. avatar Ardent says:

          Agreed, I couldn’t have imagined touching an adult without an invitation when I was a child, even a toddler. The very idea that a patient would be in the pediatricians office opening drawers and such is mind blowing. I’d dismiss your child from my practice if you allowed them into my private office to shake the place down. It’s rude, irresponsible and potentially dangerous and precludes us having a professional relationship. Good riddance!

          While I’m not a pediatrician, I did used to share office space with one (I was part of the Drs larger organisation) and never, ever considered that patients might enter my office. Of course a toddler might appear at the door, but one expects a parent to be seconds behind them, and if not a parent, staff.

        2. avatar matt says:

          Hank, have you been a parent? Or been paying attention? I am the former and have with the later. I remember kids being handsy since I was a kid 30+ years ago. This isn’t some new thing. Maybe it is a little more now, then then. Kids are friendlier and more outgoing than adults and have no sense of personal boundaries until they are older. Yeah, parents (ideally) teach their kids about personal boundaries.

          Its been a minute since “beating it out of them” has been considered good parenting. Like several decades. In professions where you deal with kids a lot, you expect that there will be a lot more touching. Not a lot of internists or auto mechanics who go around hugging their clients or expect to be hugged. A lot peds and elementary school teachers who do.

  6. avatar GS650G says:

    Ive got three pistols stashed in my house. My office is a GFZ but we have armed guards. I’m not paranoid enough to carry two guns and three magazines in the house but I have tools available.

  7. avatar Bonega says:

    Would an ankle holster be an option, or do the ankle biters explore there, too?

    1. avatar Fully Involved says:

      Probably not a good option because dress pants often hike up when someone is sitting and/or crosses his/her legs. There are other deep concealment options that would be more ideal like the thunderwear holster.

      1. avatar Ardent says:

        What you say sounds sensible but considering the holster is on only one ankle, and you know which one, it’s not that hard to conceal.

        I say that from years of ankle carrying a BUG EDC while wearing suits. Oddlyq enough, I spent quite bit of time in family practice and pediatric offices during that time and I’m sure I was never made…and if I would have been it would have been the XDs9mm worn strongside OWB and the pair of spare mags on the opposite side of my belt that would have given me away, not the ankle piece.

        Those who don’t carry are always paranoid…I can assure you, no one is looking and no one is seeing.

  8. avatar The 2nd protects the rest. says:

    We had a murderer with gun come into the ER, (over 20 years ago) at one of the major hospitals in our city. He killed a nurse, and held 9 hostages, before giving himself up. I worked as a TV Videographer for one of the local stations. Sometime after the incident happened we were doing a story on concealed carry at a local shooting range. As I was getting ready to start videotaping one of the men came up to me and asked if he and the 5 others with him not shown on TV. As I talked with him he told me they all were ER Doctors, and worked at one of the other hospitals owned by the same company, where the shooting had happened. Which of course are all GUN FREE ZONES. And just recently talked with a ER nurce who carry’s at work. It’s nice to know that there were some medical Professionals with some common sense.

  9. avatar enuf says:

    Think about your office furniture. Does your desk have drawers and underneath places that others are unlikely ever to see? Do the drawers lock? Are you good with simple tools that you could mount a bio-metric pistol safe in a drawer or under the desktop? Lock the desk drawers when you go home.

    Special hide-out furniture is made. Hidden compartments for everything from pistols to full size shotguns and rifles.

    Get into the habit of taking a briefcase or small pack into the office routinely. Because you cannot be with it at work constantly, again use a bio-metric locked pistol box inside. This means you have a discrete method of taking your gun home with you and to practice your shooting.

    Building security, there is more you can do. Kits are sold in hardware and home supply stores to strengthen doors at the locks. You can buy kits to “Bar The Door” quickly and easily. Security bars can be added over windows. Have window blinds or curtains that can easily be closed to take away a shooter’s line of sight into the building.

    Another option is Ballistic Blankets or “Bullet Proof Blankets”. Google it, see what I mean. Not cheap but it is something that can be stored and quickly deployed where needed.

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Taking commentator enuf’s comment in a slightly new direction:

      My recommendation for a physician’s office: hollow out an obscure medical text so that you can place a semi-automatic pistol inside the hollowed-out space and place that book (with a few other medical text books) on a shelf about six feet high.

      I would select a full-size semi-auto pistol with 15+ round standard magazine capacity and no external safety. Store it without a round in the chamber and keep two spare magazines (fully loaded) nearby, held in place out of sight with a powerful magnet/s.

      This storage solution is absolutely discreet and secure. Plus it guarantees absolutely instant access every time, no matter how long that handgun sits on that shelf. (There is no chance of hidden compartment mechanism failure or quick-access safe failure due to mechanical failure or battery failure.)

      No partners would ever have any inkling that you are storing a handgun in your office and children would never access it. The only possible better storage solution is on-body carry.

  10. avatar Hank says:

    I wouldn’t do readily dismiss concealed carry, even with active kids. There’s more ways to conceal carry then the usual IWB 2/3/4 o’clock. I’d suggest a good shoulder holster that adequately covers the trigger and has the strap to properly hold the gun in its holster, and then select a gun with a real safety, or a .357 revolver. The benefit of this is on the opposite side spare mags help balance the rig out. This way your gun is easy to protect and very secure. This is how I carry when I know I’m going to be around children. Keep in mind mass shooters don’t always come with a warming and time to prepare.

    1. avatar Ardent says:

      Don’t take this the wrong way, bit have you spent much time carrying concealed in a shoulder holster?

      I have a couple, including the vaunted Miami Classic and the Bianchi X1000, and while they allow adequate concealment, none I’ve tried would conceal from parents and co workers in a pediatricians office for even an hour. IWB would work much better in such a setting, and when I actually worked in family practice and pediatric offices I never wore my shoulder holsters, preferring even OWB to the shoulder rig.

      All that mass swinging around and the bulk up at eye level with back printing whenever you bend or lean just doesn’t work in close quarters events same people are seeing you over and over again.

  11. avatar GunnyGene says:

    It’s only in the last several decades that doctors (whether private practice or hospital), churches, schools, and other public spaces became GFZ’s. Prior to that, going back to before the founding of this country, everyone carried a weapon of some kind. It was expected and encouraged. So what changed? In a word: Politics. And especially the kind of politics that entrenches govt. control of every aspect of life and death. We call that Despotism. It’s mentioned in our founding documents and in the words of the Founding Fathers. And “We The People” continue to let it happen. Our bad.

    1. avatar Matt Richardson says:

      My children’s pediatric office does not have gun busters posted. I have always assumed it was NOT an oversight as they are required by state law in order to forbid concealed carry legally and gun busters are wildly common for medical providers around here. I’ve carried when taking my kids to their appointments many times. I’ve never come out and asked if they were specifically gun “friendly” and never let them know I was armed. Why mess with a good thing, right?

      1. avatar billy-bob says:

        That no guns picture is usually a Beretta 92, and since that’s not what I carry, I figure I’m good.

        1. avatar ARi says:

          Love it. I use this same logic to the annoyance of my wife.

      2. avatar Hush says:

        What they don’t know doesn’t hurt them and may just help them and you should the bad guy show up.

  12. avatar former water walker says:

    That “no guns” sign on the door doesn’t mean squat…it’s bad enough when a doctor asks if you own a gat. Only a fool thinks “unthinkable”😫

    1. avatar enuf says:

      No doctor has ever asked me any question about gun ownership, nor given me a form or survey on the topic. If that ever happens I am unsure of my answer or if I’d stay with that doctor. I imagine it would depend upon how it was handled. In any event, it is not information my doctor has any business knowing, making record of or reporting to any third person or agency.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        I’m in my 60’s. I’ve had medical coverage all my life. I’ve never had a doctor ask me about gun ownership. Not once. I figure if one does I’ll just lie and tell them no.

        1. avatar Fully Involved says:

          And no doctor with the right mind will unless you say you have suicidal and/or homicidal ideations. Doctors barely have time to cover the medical essentials let alone medically-trivial details like gun ownership.

      2. avatar Mike. says:

        Never been asked in Doctors/medical building, but many are part of larger hospitals which are Universities.
        Pediatricians gave us a “gun safety leaflet”

    2. avatar Gordon in MO says:

      There should be a “Concealed Carry Encouraged” sign.

    3. avatar Ardent says:

      While I leave my guns in the car at my posted Dr’s office, to be examined in often enough have to reveal the holster and spare mag shingle on my belt, and sometimes the one on my ankle. I’ve yet to be asked about firearms ownership, but as many have said, the first time it happens I’ll need a new Dr.

  13. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

    Best sassy answer I heard about why someone owns a gun: “Why do you have a fire extinguisher? Just call 911”.

  14. avatar Timothy Toroian says:

    I now live in smallish city but when I lived in Philadelphia virtually every doctor and dentist I knew in private practice carried at work and had others stashed around. A couple of the ones who dealt with addicts also wore body armor.

  15. avatar SheepdogMD says:

    I am a pediatrician. And for exactly the reasons in this article I carry everyday at work. Ruger LCP II .380 and an extra magazine either in a Bugbite ankle holster or the pocket holster it came with. POGO (pants on gun on) My patients are “touchy-feely” and I get hugs all the time but have never been made. Ready and willing to protect the children in my care in more ways than one.

    1. avatar ‘liljoe says:

      Curious what state you practice in?

      1. avatar SheepdogMD says:

        AZ

  16. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    One might assume the Dr. has syringes and other medical tools that may save a life,so why not a CCW for if and when TSHTF.

  17. avatar daveinwyo says:

    I’m probably going to catch s..t for this, but here goes.
    A North American Arms ,22 WMR with the laser grip.
    A close environment and a red dot. A NAA pocket holster w/5 rounds reload, weighs 8 oz.
    If you cant conceal that, your hopeless.

    1. avatar Mike H in WA says:

      I think I would rather use a different revolver, but I appreciate where your head is. If my options are unarmed, or a tiny .22 wmr (or magnum) that can be easily hidden…

  18. avatar Seizure doc says:

    I find this article ridiculous. If I run a medical office I have to be undefended but if I run a muffler shop it’s ok for me to carry. If your partner would excrete a cinder block let them. They are on their own and will get no medical help from me on that end
    Why do Doctors have to be neutered of their second amendment rights to practice ?

  19. avatar B.D. says:

    Some police stations have baby dump boxes. Why? Because it’s a better option than throwing a baby in the dumpster. Sad, but true. So I’m kind of amazed why people act like having the ability to defend yourself is such a bad, unthinkable thing.

    before you act like something as simple as a quick Google search doesn’t exist and want me to cite these baby boxes, just Google “baby hatch” and “safe Haven law”. Put some effort into it before you comment.

    1. avatar Mike H in WA says:

      LOT’S of states now have laws allowing something similar to this… and not just at police stations. Here in Washington, you can leave a baby up to three days old with any qualified staff member or volunteer at any fire station, hospital, or ER (but not a police station)… no questions asked beyond medical history.

      Better a trauma nurse or EMT than an abortion or dumpster…

      1. avatar Broke_It says:

        That’s nuts. I couldn’t imagine throwing out my little goofballs but it’s comforting knowing that there’s a system for someone that would be inclined to do such.

        1. avatar route66paul says:

          Sometimes something snaps and the mother rejects the baby. We see this in nature a lot. While a new mother may wish to get rid of that “pain producing parasite” in the 48 hours after birth, many times they do come around and become proper mothers. A woman going through the birth process with no help, just might go somewhat crazy for a couple of days, but after the hormones regulate again, they are usually OK. Having a place to take care of the baby while the mother heals is a great idea, many people today do not have a church or people they trust, so the government helps.
          While I do believe in limited government, I think that we can afford to do this as a society.

  20. avatar MrBob says:

    Both my back doctor and my knee doctor are gun guys with no signs on the door prohibiting firearms.
    In fact open carry is totally fine with my back doc. He’s a shotgun fanatic and I’ve seen boxes stacked 4 feet high containing several thousand shotgun shells behind the counter.

    1. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

      Lucky guy!! You’re living in a great town with great people! My contractor had some guy swear at him (at HomeDepot) because he was wearing a red hat….not a MAGA hat, a St. L. Cardinal hat. Intolerance County here.

  21. avatar Gregolas says:

    It seems a fanny pack would solve your problem, especially if you kept routine medical exam supplies in it. Maybe tongue depressors, etc. and suckers for the good kids would work. Then your gun is with you wherever you are, and you can carry a mid-size service pistol with 15 rounds or so, plus a spare mag, and pepper spray (for the bad kids).

  22. avatar Joe in San Antonio says:

    We just talked about this at church, soft targets need to be protected. No lie I am a fan of CCW but I also voted to pay armed security during usual services. The reason is if we deter a threat by having a armed security detail then so much the better. Sometimes proving your a harder target is enough. As callus as this sounds the whole running with bears analogy rings true, just have to run faster then the guy next to you.

    1. avatar Perry says:

      Personal defense is a do-it-yourself thing, as the Broward Coward recently reminded us. I’m on our church security team – sheepdogs serving The Good Shepherd. Our job is to take care of our “guests” until EMT or LEO arrive. Most of us are CCW. Some of us have emergency medical certificates. A few are LEO, ex-LEO, or corporate security. We have semi-annual (Peace Officers’) range qualification and quarterly classroom training.

      There are many things that can be done to “harden” a target and deter a threat. Your local Sheriff or Police may host a church security round-table in your area.

  23. avatar Mike H in WA says:

    “…lead injection device…”

    You, good doctor, win the internet today…

    1. avatar Geoff "Guns. Lots of guns." PR says:

      Yeah, I liked that as well.

      She prescribes an inter-cranial Pb injection *stat*.

      Doc LateBloomer, in the chance you might be reading the comments, as enuf mentioned above, there is good-looking lockable gun concealment furniture available that can easily conceal a .300 BLK SBR AR with a can on it, for hearing-safe ‘vermin control’…

  24. avatar Sian says:

    Why is every gun-related stock photo 900% cringe

    1. avatar Geoff "Guns. Lots of guns." PR says:

      That’s a damn good point, Sian, and it sounds like a business opportunity for a photography-minded gunny like yourself or Dan Z., for example…

  25. avatar Manny says:

    I had had two patients that left very angry recorded messages in my office answering system. One of them stated “I am going to shut down your practice” and the other ended his message with “….. eat s___t and die”. Upon listening to the recordings the local police constable said that “there is nothing we can do about it but call us if those persons show up again”. I guess they want to come and take pictures of the bodies but it won’t be my staff or my own bodies. My manager (wife) and myself are armed during office ours and between the two of us have more than 100 hours of handgun defensive training (including Force on Force with “Simunnition”, low light, and building “clearance” tactics for civilians). I also encourage my CCW patients to come in fully armed into the exam room for their appointments. Many do.

  26. avatar Fully Involved says:

    The author should consider a suppressor with that AR pistol. If you ever had to fire one indoors without ear protection you can kiss your auscultation ability goodbye.

    Having a suppressor means you don’t have to choose between your life and your career.

  27. avatar Aleric says:

    I own the business and I am worried what someone else thinks about me keeping a weapon for protection? WRONG. If the other doctor cant handle it then they need to learn or find one that will.

  28. avatar paul says:

    MY doctor of 25 years left the HMO she worked for. She used to have hunting pictures up in her office, but was made to take them down. We had a few discussions about guns over the years – this last year she retired and it was no doubt due to the HMO wanting to know about patients firearms

  29. avatar neiowa says:

    “Pediatricians” need to grow up and become REAL Dr.

    And stop using them. A GP will take care of you little pampered little crumb cruncher just fine. I your woman insists Jr needs a “Pediatricians” you have a high maintenance ignorant bimbo – dump her now.

    1. avatar Pg2 says:

      Nearly Most pediatricians are just vaccine pushers for the pharm industry.

  30. avatar Chuck says:

    An AR pistol wouldn’t be my first choice for an active shooter or an office weapon. A small 9mm like the Sig P365 would be preferable and more versatile in the confines of an office. I suppose an AR in a pistol caliber 9mm to .45 ACP would be an option, but any AR pistols in a rifle caliber have a greater potential for over penetration. I’d lean towards the .45 because it’s heavy and slow and 9, .40 or 10 may be risking the overpenetration unless loaded with very specific ammunition. A .38 Special with 200 grain Lead Wad Cutters has ballistics close to the venerable old .45 when it comes to the “cadaver oscillation” the early Army testing used to test the .45.

  31. avatar Mr no says:

    I personally think that this is a truly good idea. I can tell you that if you use the ar pistol and are involved in a shooting case scenario call the police and tell them where you are and what you are using for protection this may keep you out of harm’s way

  32. avatar DC Christian says:

    I’m a minister, and I carry concealed at church, but I’m working on deeper, more secure concealment for similar times in close contact with kids and such. I’m considering a small “pocket” semiauto in a front pants pocket holster, but with an extra measure: install a zipper with a flap to hide it that matches the pant material. Use a zipper type that’s not easy to operate if you’re not familiar with it. I’ll probably carry loaded but not chambered as an extra measure.
    I know it wouldn’t be as fast to deploy, but it might work for the “active shooter in the building” scenario. It also wouldn’t be easily discovered by coworkers or patients unless you have the need to draw it.

    1. avatar Perry says:

      I sing in a Praise Band, next to the Worship Leader. VERY visible. I’m also on the Security Team. I carry a G27 in a slightly-modified Blade Tech (Kydex) IWB. I have asked all of my Team members to let me know if they ever see me print. No reports so far. My biggest concern is when we “Pass the Peace”. I’ve told the Praise Band that I’m also Security (and why – John 21:16). Nobody touches my right hip, out of respect.

      The tactical view from the stage (or pulpit, in your case) is totally unobstructed. The Security Lead, who sits in the congregation, watches my eyes because I’m the first to see something that Doesn’t Look Right.

  33. avatar Jean-Claude says:

    I work in a busy, corporate dental office. Our patient base is primarily elderly people and people of a lower socioeconomic status. Lots of Medicare and Medicaid type plans. I see patients who are on all sorts of drugs, both pharmaceutical and illicit.

    The employee manual says no guns, but I have a pistol in my backpack, and I know of two other employees who have pistols in their purses. And I occasionally have a .380 in a belly band.

    I’m surprised more dental and medical offices aren’t shot up by demented and enraged patients. ESPECIALLY dental offices. It’s scary sometimes. I really don’t want to get in a shootout with a .380.

  34. avatar joefoam says:

    In a day and age where violence (not gun violence) is an everyday occurrence, signs should be posted that ‘this is NOT a gun free zone’ and a method for stopping a violent assailant should be readily available. The 1950s are gone and the polite peaceful people are gone with them.

  35. avatar ATTAGReader says:

    I worked in healthcare for my entire career. Once I got my CHP, I have been armed when having to fire people. We had doctors whose opinions on handguns ranged from carrying themselves to pure hoplophobia. My position as manager of the employees was therefore don’t ask, don’t tell. But like others commenting, I downsized from an SR9c to a Taurus and later a Sig pocket .380 to make printing a non issue. To the female pediatrician I would suggest one of those underwear style holsters and a pocket .380, 38, or 9 as she prefers worn in the front. . If she lets the kids and their parents put their hands where they truly don’t belong, she has bigger problems than self defense.

  36. avatar Jeff says:

    “All I want to do is keep a lead injection device handy in case of such an attack. But my practice partner would defecate a cinderblock if I did, so realistically it’s never going to happen.”

    Why are your partner’s scatological habits your problem or concern? Do you go around adopting other people’s problems?

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