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St. Louis County (MO) Police Chief Tim Fitch has already gone on record calling for the death of gun-free zones. Now it’s former NYPD detective John Baeza — who has three elementary school age kids of his own — jumping on the arm-the-schools bandwagon. We’re sure he knows all too well how long it takes to get “first responders” to the scene of a shooting like an Aurora or a Sandy hook. In fact, according to a CNN timeline of the events, the first cops didn’t arrive until “about 20 minutes after the first calls” came in . . .

A determined headcase can do a lot of uninterrupted shooting given a third of an hour in a place he knows he won’t face any armed resistance. Baeza wants to see teachers and others who work in schools packing.

The bottom line is, when you talk about ammunition or weapons, the bottom line is they need something, and it could be anything, any type of firearm to save the children. If you were to give me a magic wand and I could change things, I would give that principal, or I would have that principal or some teachers armed. It could have saved more of the students and staff that were killed. It’s very important.

Short of waving that magic wand (the one the hoplophobe community would so dearly love to use to make all the world’s gun disappear) this is the only solution to school safety that acknowledges the reality that a dedicated whack-job will always be able to get his hands on a gun. The only question is, how long do you want to give him before he meets someone who can respond in kind?

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      • Armed cops are a silly answer. That is cherry picking public locations to have open carrying cops present. Then a maniac will simply attack somewhere else.

        Simply remove gun free zones all together. There are already plenty of teachers with carry permits who would willingly arm themselves on school grounds, but they obey a sign that criminals and crazies do not.

        I think their ultimate fear is that the increased number of children in the area could result in a higher liklihood of a child being hurt if an accident happens. If that’s the fear I’m willing to compromise on making teachers keep them locked in a desk drawyer or something. Once it becomes normalized it will go away. We say give them an inch and they’ll take a mile, lets take our inch and over time we’ll get that mile.

    • Yeah, I am so pissed, as the Dad of two young kids, that the Newtown kids and unarmed teachers were slaughtered like sheep by bizarro-psycho boy with Mommy’s non-secured guns and the good guys with guns only took 20 minutes to get there?????? Now, how exactly am I,and my AR, the problem again???

    • And the spell of choice is “evilus eliminatum”, repeated as necessary, thought 2 to the chest and one to the head usually does the trick.

  1. I think this is an issue that we need to push hard. Reducing/eliminating gun free zones would do more to prevent mass shootings than any gun control law.

  2. At the very least change them to certified carry areas where if one choses to get as proficient as the police they can carry anywhere a cop can within reason.

  3. I retired from a Ca. public school system. Nobody working on the campus gets there without finger printing and a thorough back ground check. And the scrutiny continues after you’re hired. Getting into non school related legal trouble in your private life can still get you the boot from the schools.

    What I’m trying to say here is there is no, and I mean no, valid reason why school staff can’t be trusted to be armed. If any staff member can’t be trusted with a gun they sure as hell can’t be trusted with the kids.

    Any plan to protect our kids at school that does not take allowing willing school staff members and properly vetted community volunteers to bear arms on campus is not a serious good faith plan.

  4. Gun free zones must go. They must become psycho-free zones. How do we do that? Put the scumb@gs where they belong.

    All of these murderers have left a paper trail. I’m sure that Adam Lanza did, too. Most likely, when his mom told the babysitter not to turn his back on Adam, she wasn’t talking about her dear boy wandering off to catch butterflies.

    None of these bastards were placed where they belonged, and the result is a lot of dead bodies and an unprecedented assault on 2A.

    The US has the most expensive health care system in the world. As a result, we are 37th among all nations in life expectancy, behind Cuba, Guadaloupe and Puerto Rico just to name a few, and we have vicious murderers walking around who should be detained and treated.

    And they call us crazy.

    • Ralf, look up AOT — neither MA nor CT are AOT states

      Without these laws and collaboration with the courts, its near impossible to get these people the treatment they need.

      “SUMMARY: Forty-four states permit the use of assisted outpatient treatment (AOT), also called outpatient commitment. AOT is court-ordered treatment (including medication) for individuals who have a history of medication noncompliance, as a condition of their remaining in the community. Studies and data from states using AOT prove that it is effective in reducing the incidence and duration of hospitalization, homelessness, arrests and incarcerations, victimization, and violent episodes. AOT also increases treatment compliance and promotes long-term voluntary compliance, while reducing caregiver stress. The six states that do not have AOT are Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Mexico, Nevada, and Tennessee.”

      • Now that’s instructive.

        Having a system like this in place — publicly funded, so that *everyone* who needs it can get treatment — would probably do a lot more than any conceivable restriction on gun ownership.

  5. I’d be interested to know how many LEOs, and
    CCW holders, particularly those on college
    campuses and other schools are purposely
    disregarding gun-free-zones.

    Conversely, how many are now actively avoiding
    these gun-free-zones.

    • ChuckN: I would tell you if I wasn’t disregarding the gun-free signs on my college campus.

      Wait, that’s not right… I would tell you if I was disregarding the gun-free signs on my college campus.

      Hmm, try again… I wouldn’t tell you if I was disregarding the gun-free signs on my college campus.

      Well, anyway, it’s one of those. But I might be.

    • I personally am avoiding Gun Free Zones if I can. Unluckily I am in MD were we have the May Issue and unless you are caring big dollar products or cash for work you aren’t getting a CCW permit so very few places are Gun Free.


    • Well, I’ll answer, honestly and completely.

      I obey the no-guns restrictions on college campuses and school grounds. I sometimes wish I had the guts not to, but the consequences of getting caught would be far too high.

      I would avoid gun-free zones, but I can’t. My kids go to school in one, and I work in one. Most of my waking time is spent in places where guns are actively prohibited.

      As far as other so-called gun-free zones, I don’t avoid them. I ignore them. Private notices don’t have force of law in my state, so if they say no guns, I silently and respectfully continue to carry; what they don’t know won’t hurt them (and might save lives).

  6. RF — I don’t care what CNN says, if they sent one car directly from the Police station to the school it is 7min tops — something you can Google. My fear is that the first car there did not exactly go barging into school to stop what was happening.

    That said, 7min is still too long and why they should have armed patrols onsite.

  7. Would anyone trade high cap mags for the elimination of these zones. Banning high caps is irrelevant, but might be a viable political solution.

    • No. Rather, I’d point out that if it took at least 20 minutes for police to arrive at Sandy Hook Elementary School, it wouldn’t have mattered whether Adam Lanza had 10-round magazines or 30-round magazines. With 26 people at the school murdered, he wasn’t killing much more than one person per minute. He could have done this with a revolver.

      • Well that’s obvious to anyone who’s willing to pay attention. I live in CT, these magazines are gone no matter what here, so I’m just kicking around possible trade-offs that might do a dent of good.

      • If you mean over the STANDARD 30 rounds, then ok.

        What Rizzy said. CT narrlowly dodged this a couple of years ago. It will be back and it will pass. AR mags are cheap, but replacing pistol mags is going to be mucho expensive. Even if they do grandfather, it’s probably best not to take them to the public range.

    • Define high-cap. If you mean “standard capacity,” as in “the capacity the weapon was designed for,” then no, hell no. AR-style were designed for 30 round mags; my XD(M) was designed for a 16 round mag. Those are not “high-cap.”

      If, however, you meant 100 round Beta mags, well… I dunno. They are a niche market, and notoriously unreliable, and honestly, I really don’t think you’d see much squawking if someone tried to pass a law that specifically outlawed them, and only them. Of course, someone would immediately design a 98 round mag by putting a slightly larger follower into a 100 round mag, so the law would ultimately be pointless. But hey, it’s a gun law. Pointless is what they do.

      • I’m talking the “political definition” of high capacity magazine for rifles. And I’m just thinking like a politician might, I actually think it would be a worthwhile trade. Now, for handguns, definitely not. 10 rounds just isn’t enough, and often it can be difficult to carry extra.

    • Rizzy, I’ll trade trying to re instate gun rights to convicted felons who have served their full sentences for constitutional carry at all times in all locations for those of us with clean records. Deal?

    • Sorry but no. High cap mags aren’t to blame so there should be no leeway given. It’s about time non-nonsensical laws that permit “gun free zones” went away based on their own obvious demerits.

      It’s just a pity it took this much bloodshed to illustrate how ineffective those laws were to begin with. The lawmakers that wrote the law should be held liable and accountable as well.

      Maybe then, people would think a little harder about writing idiotic laws to push whatever selfish agenda they have in mind instead of thinking of the greater good.

    • I would make that trade. Although it would depend on what and how…

      As Matt in FL said, “high capacity” as defined by states that have limits in place is actually just normal capacity. Even my Springfield XD subcompact pistol holds more than 10 rounds. Done the wrong way, it would only create onerous regulations and the antis would still be saying we need more restrictions to do it right. But heck, maybe we could get lucky — ban a few unimportant gadgets (like those ridiculous 100-rd drums that make gun-controllers brown their whities), and in return gain a giant leap in real freedom.

      What if accepting a 10-round limit or 15-round limit got us to where schools are *actually* protected and everybody who wanted to carry (legally) could carry anywhere? Would you really reject that? Isn’t that what we’re always saying we want?

      • I’ve my 1911’s and numerous 8 and 10 rd mags. Plus lots of speedloaders for my revolvers.
        Let’s ride Boy’s!!!!
        🙂 🙂 🙂

  8. I personally welcome a world where 8 out of ten people have a sidearm, open carry so much the better. Say goodby to a lot of crime. The radical left cannot be a part of this world though & will fight to prevent it. So they hole up in their CC carrier safe zones & live in their wonderfull gun free world. The answer? I’ll be damned if I know, shine on, Randy

    • +100.

      How about 90%. Other 10% Bloomberg and crowd. Oh wait, he does not need to carry, his armed security detail has that handled.

  9. Here in Utah concealed-carry permit holders are permitted by law to carry at k-12 public schools. Whether a teacher/employee or visiting parent, CFP holders are not constrained by gun-free zone . As a parent of elementary school aged children I appreciate that a conscientious school employee may be available before police arrive to respond to mayhem.

  10. I am glad to hear someone say that teachers need the ability to arm themselves on national television. Of course, there is no way Fox is gonna ask that guy for his opinion again. After all, they can’t have cops going around saying that citizens need guns to protect themselves and any they are charged to protect.

  11. Even here in anti-Second Amendment California, we’ve had uniformed police at the two local high schools in Livermore for many years. It’s a very basic question; when confroned by an advisary trying to hurt or kill you, do you fight back with force (deadly if need be), or become a victim? While permits for CCW’s have multiplied all over the country in the last several years, it is virtually impossible to get one in Alameda County where I live. Guess it’s time to move…..

  12. It is about time the adults in this country have the same common sense as our 9 year old daughters do! Someone posted a comment about that on a previous post.

  13. Fox’s Shepard Smith is a moron. In describing how the governor of Michigan vetoed a bill allowing concealed carry, after extra training, in day cares, churches and schools, he dramatically paused while repeating, “Concealed firearms in schools!” Shep’s version of an OMG moment.

    One armed citizen in Sandy Hook school could have stopped the shooter. And the need for special training in cases like this is doubtful…most of these nutcases will either shoot themselves or run when faced with armed opposition.

    Unbelievable. Fair and balanced indeed…logic balanced with idiocy.

    • The mere presence of a school resource officer likely would have prevented psycho-boy from even showing his face to begin with at the elementary school. He probably would have found a “gun-free” movie theater. At least he would have shot willingly unarmed adults, not innocent kids.

      This one really pisses me off. Adults are inherently assigned the role of protector of children. Why did adults fvck up so badly in Newtown, which could just as well be almost anytown.

  14. I’m amazed that the mother of the shooter knew she had an unstable son living with her and still kept guns in the house! I love my guns as she apparently did too, but a little common sense please. I mean, she allegedly told one baby sitter ” don’t turn your back to him”….C’mon, man!

  15. Since it is obvious these psychos are crazy but not stupid and that they intentionally seek out “gun free” zones, an effective and low-cost initial effort would be to post signs at every school entrance:
    WARNING! School staff and other employees may be armed!
    Under a silhouette of an S&W 686 with a bright green circle around it.

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