Did BioFire, the makers of the latest “smart gun” travel 10,000 miles just to miss the point of being an armed citizen? During the latest episode of SOTG University podcast, Professor Paul Markel will consider this latest piece of high tech and whether or not it’s a solution looking for a problem or is the answer to all of our prayers.
The SOTG University podcast is a short-form, single-topic, and easy-to-digest weekly program hosted by Paul G. Markel, founder of Student of the Gun and veteran small arms and tactics instructor with over three decades of experience.
SOTG University podcast can be heard on www.SOTGU.com, iHeartRadio, Spotify, iTunes, and all popular podcast platforms.
I’m assuming this thing wouldn’t work for a “danger close” situation, in which an attacker gets the jump on you and you’re forced to fire from a short draw (not full arm extension, such as from the hip while the perp has you pressed against the wall or wrestling with you on the ground). This thing won’t be able to see your face, won’t fire, and therefore is useless.
It’s specifically intended for home defense so it’s not meant to be drawn from a holster at all. Also it uses *both* a fingerprint scanner and face reader, either of which can unlock it. All this info was easily available before you spouted off, yet here you are again. Dislike it for what it is but stop making things up.
You need a hug, bro? You sure do get angry easily.
For this niche it looks okay but the preview in Forgotten Weapons shows some issues with mechanical reliability.
As an EDC, I would pick something more conventional.
Typical Oregon FUDD.
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Ian at ‘Forgotten Weapons’ has an additional video out on that gun :
(At this point, it appears to me that Ian is being handsomely compensated to do these videos.)
“Interview w/ Biofire’s Lead Designer: Features and Reliability”
I don’t see any cops or military using it. Why not? Why aren’t military members using this in the military right now???
Can this smart gun be remotely disabled by democrat politicians who voted to do so?
Can hackers find this information and just click a button and disable your gun?
What about EMPs? If a russian neutron bomb is detonated in the upper atmosphere above your home, is this gun still going to work?
If a russian neutron bomb is detonated in the upper atmosphere above your home
Your gun not working will be the very least of your problems, actually you probably won’t have ANY problems…
First off, it hasn’t been on the market for even a month. Of course it hasn’t passed any military or police trials. Lol. In fairness to the gist of your question though, it probably won’t even compete. Too expensive, too much unproven electronic tech that probably needs to have the bugs worked out over a Gen 2 model.
The charging stand for this also operates the electronics to program the gun. It is stand alone with no wifi, bluetooth or any other connection to a program that could disable it. Hackers would have to have the stand for an extended amount of time to break the security measures before they can disable your gun and won’t be able to do it remotely.
An EMP would most definitely disable the thing. As would a dead battery, or some combination of wearing a hat and having dirty fingers.
Hope this helps!
@Geoff, I’m honestly confused on what Ian’s angle is. I assumed he’s interested in the tech; if he’s getting paid for the content he’s showing off a lot of failures.
@Tim, it’s not even on the market yet. This is pre-production hype.
At this point I think the only thing we can say for sure is that it can’t be disabled remotely because it’s not on the network. This part at least will be provable once they’re available for independent reviews.
@Eric, I don’t know Ian’s angle either. Smart guns aren’t for me, except for maybe as a collector’s piece down the road. I can easily see Ian just enjoying being one of the first to review the first gun of it’s kind to make a production run. But I don’t follow him around either, so if there’s more than that, I don’t know about it.
I see why people wouldn’t like the gun. New Jersey’s law may have been repealed, but there will undoubtedly be more like it in the future.
What prompted me to reply to Anonymous was his “Why aren’t military members using this in the military right now???” line. The answer to that even if they wanted to, it hasn’t had the time to pass military trials. It probably wouldn’t pass military trials, it probably wouldn’t beat other military trial guns for cost, and it probably won’t even try. But the question was silly and doesn’t discount the gun from home defense.
I get the concept. This thing doesn’t need a safe because it has security built into it. This is a true nightstand gun able to grab and go. But if a child or a trespasser picks it up, they just pick up a club. Even if it’s not for me and not for Anonymous, I still understand the appeal here
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the concept is valid for a very limited user base.
New parents wanting a quickly accessable firearm and the kids are not yet ready for being entirely trusted around guns but not yet able to fake fingerprints?
Flowcharting this out rapidly disproves the intended use case.
See previous and is a Tesla owner?
Only reason I’d buy one is for the novelty. Probably never leave the safe, but that said, I’d buy one.
We found the cuck. You realize purchasing one of these triggers laws already enacted and awaiting it’s appearance in the marketplace right? Those laws such as the one passed in N.J. and other states will require that this is the only handgun approved for sale.
Way to go betraying the 2nd Amendment community, I’m sure people will be lining up to congratulate you (sarc).
Now put on a fresh mask and go get in line for your 7th vax booster as I’m sure you’re one of those too.
yeah, no. that has been repealed.
Buying the first commercial smart gun with no intention to rely on it is equivalent to being a cuck?!? Maybe he’s only a cuck if you lie about what laws are on the book while insulting the guy?
This product will likely fail. Too much sensitive tech crammed into a machine designed to contain mini explosions. Still, the idea of talking to my grandkids one day about firearm technology and show them a flintlock pistol from the Revolutionary War, a revolver from the Civil War, a Luger from WWI, a 1911 from WWII, a tricked out Glock and the first ever smart gun sounds pretty awesome.
Throw some slurs at me if it makes you feel good about yourself. But I might get one of these too
Might be good to buy one as a collector piece.
I considered that, but I don’t have the bucks to blow on a doorstop.
I doubt that the thing would begin to appreciate in value until after 50 years or so.
by that time we’ll have jet packs and lazer beans.
My guns are tools not toys or “display pieces” each one functions as needed when needed, all are fired regularly (at least two to three times a year for the ones less relevant to day to day needs) and cleaned/lubed at least monthly… Don’t own any “collectable” firearms but I do have a few that are considered “valuable” (they are all valuable to me).. $1500.00 for a “novelty” would buy a lot of “necessary” ammo…
simple key activated trigger-lock is just as effective…[always keep the key on your person]…….and a hell of a lot cheaper…this is a solution looking for a problem….
“the concept is valid for a very limited user base.”
Agreed, and I honestly don’t mind the fact that they are manufacturing the weapon.
What I would mind *greatly* is if the Leftist Scum ™ mandated that a weapon like that be the only weapons we could buy.
For the time being, they will be unable to do that, thanks to the ‘Bruen’ decision. In the future, all bets are off… 🙁
Flood the markets with enough “dumb” guns now to make such things impracticable at every level then private sale/unannounced family transfer/make several of your own wherever legal to further complicate the issue. They will still push for control but at least make them work for it.
So far, we’re +300 million, them, a handful…
So at the least need to double that.
Well, not allowing for a honest review sounds like what happened to the P1.
Not a damn thing stopping TTAG from laying their money down for a deposit, buying it when it becomes available, and doing a typical TTAG review.
The NDA only applies for a free review gun.
Has TTAG put a deposit on one, yet?
A dead gun owner lying beside a firearm that won’t activate is a feature, not a failure.
According to them, yes, it is… 🙁
Is the BioFire ‘Smart Gun’ a Misfire?
Probably to most likely…
If the tech really works – and if you’re really making this for the reasons / customers you claim – put it (much more easily and cheaply) on a safe.
The tech isn’t anything new, it’s been in the field for years. The “but on a gun” is their entire value proposition and probably the only thing that’s still patentable.
I think that depends on your definition of New. Gun technology is pretty old, just shy of a thousand years. Police only adopted semi auto’s in the 80’s. about 70+ years after the 1911. The gun community are not what anyone would call, “early adopters”. So to us…that tech is new.
Do you use a smart phone? Do you use a fingerprint scanner or facial recognition on your phone? Millions of people do and while its not flawless its pretty reliable and instantaneous. If this gun uses the same tech, that really is nothing new. Im not saying I would ever be interested in buying it or advocating for anyone I know to buy it but I do see a subsect of the population that could use this as a gateway gun as they get more comfortable with the concept of a firearm in the home.
Ah, I thought the dual-mode authentication and its reliability level (cf. other commenters’ poor experiences / lack of confidence with legacy tech) was the claimed improvement, but I guess the patentability angle makes some sense.
Why choose this over a safe of comparable reliability (i.e. why accept the pistol – a first / only defensive firearm, according to the designer – being pilferable as long as it couldn’t be fired) remains to ponder.
“Why choose this over a safe of comparable reliability (i.e. why accept the pistol”
Speed. If you absolutely need to use your weapon, even the few seconds it would take to go to the safe, unlock it, extract it and then fire it could be seconds you don’t have.
I can think of one potential market, retail shops that that keep a weapon behind the counter, like pawn shops and liquor stores.
(Although no pawn shop I am aware of would want to rely on such a gun…)
That appears to be the company’s contention, and makes sense for a traditional box safe.
A bolt-on holsterish safe with retention bolt(s), and the sensors positioned similarly to the Biofire’s, would be just as quick (and much cheaper and easier to integrate).
I.e. accomplish the stated purpose (and also prevent theft) while not triggering any infringements
I thought we spoke of this recently. No thanks.
a ttag search of biofire brings four specific and three non- specific articles. there were (and will be) more.
“…it’s a solution looking for a problem or is the answer to all of our prayers.”
1. a gun supposedly created for only home defense.
2. a gun relying on technology that was never intended for use in a life-n-death immediate use situation.
3. a gun that relies on electronics to make the decision to allow use in an immediate need.
4. a gun with electronics prone to require the most exacting conditions of use (e.g. the infrared face scanner is only good in line with the face within a 2 degree arc which over 95% of immediate defense situations don’t have because in most immediate defense situation the defender aligns the gun instinctively and doesn’t fully aim meaning their face is not in line with the gun which means it will not be lined up properly for this gun infrared face scanner) within certain parameters decided by the electronics capability.
if you were praying to have a better chance of being seriously harmed or killed in a defense situation then yes this gun is the answer to ‘your prayers’ but there is no “our prayers”.
Infrared face scanners, good, more electrons flying in the air to fck up our brains.
One of these days a scientist is going to find out the reason that every human is nuts is because of all the electrons that are flying around in the air. A long time ago all we got bombarded with was lightning bolt electros.
Now we got radar driving your car along with cell phones, satellites measuring and looking at stuff, our brain are on electron overload.
And ever since my neighbor got Alexis my cats started pooping on the floor.
I fear this may be deeply troubling to you, my friend, but your brain is made up entirely of neutrons, protons, and…electrons. They’re already in your brain!
more electrons flying in the air to fck up our brains.
It’s not electrons, it’s microwaves, those things are everywhere, if you actually hold your cell phone up to your ear you cook a minute part of your brain each time you use it and judging by some posts you dropped today concerning “Braindead” you may have already cooked one too many…
….or just a friggin’ gadget…that could get you killed in a dire situation…just because you’re a tech fan?……
If it was so smart it would have a smiley face selection switch for target, anti-aircraft, silencer, dirtbags, FLIR, phaser, etc.
Beware! Danger! Beware!
The government will soon be clamoring for this to be a requirement on all guns!!!!
Especially if it doesn’t work well. They are great at rushing into something like this
“Beware! Danger! Beware!”…
Sure, they can make the attempt, and those in the blue states will likely comply. Meanwhile, out here in Free America, with something like 390 million + guns in “circulation”, most of us will be breaking out the popcorn.
So long as I wouldn’t be forced to buy one/carry one- who cares? Ditto plug-in vehicles, electric v gas stoves/forced air gas heat, etc.
More ominous to me is the attempt at urbanizing Americans in housing projects now springing up in the burbs as well as metro areas. Bringing everyone together to further control them is completely Eastern Bloc/China. These quaint complexes will turn into tomorrow’s Cabrini Green in 10 years. I’ll stay out in the country, thank you.
It would be a cold day in Hell before I would buy one! I can not get the same features to work on my Cell Phone. So would I trust this gun? Answer “No Way”!!!
“So would I trust this gun? Answer “No Way”!!!”
You aren’t the intended market.
Someone who might need a gun due to valid threats but isn’t comfortable around guns is one potential market…
I have a crazy idea, please, hear me out. How about we let them finish developing this thing and then market it? If it sells to people who want it, great. Also, let’s make sure that the only market it can have is people who want it. If it does not sell then everyone who does not buy one saves $1500.
“How about we let them finish developing this thing and then market it?”
Because the anti-gun mob will use the first sale to write laws banning all other firearms?
“Because the anti-gun mob will use the first sale to write laws banning all other firearms?”
Slapped down by the courts, long after the regular gun companies are out of business waiting for the courts to act… 🙂
“Slapped down by the courts, long after the regular gun companies are out of business waiting for the courts to act… 🙂”
Question: If govt permits only one firearm, one firearm, not type of firearm, to be sold to the populace, would the courts approve?
Note: Article 1, Section 8, Clause 16; Clause 16. “The Congress shall have Power To provide for…., arming…. the Militia,…”
Does that mean Congress can dictate that only one firearm is to be used by the Militia, and thus the populace (who make up the Militia)?
“Note: Article 1, Section 8, Clause 16; Clause 16. “The Congress shall have Power To provide for…., arming…. the Militia,…””
What class of the Militia are you referring to?
The organized, or unorganized?
One of them is provided for with public money, the other private (‘the people’), as they see fit… 🙂
Congress can dictate that only one firearm is to be used by the Militia, and thus the populace (who make up the Militia)?
Males at least 17 years of age and under 45… That leaves me out…
“Question: If govt permits only one firearm, one firearm, not type of firearm, to be sold to the populace, would the courts approve?”
The current court political balance, a hard *no*.
The moment the court balance changes not in our favor, the answer would be, you bet your sweet ass yes.
Our job in the interim is to influence the population into seeing things our way. What we cannot do is squander the period of time away, letting them frame the conversation….
Actually, I don’t see how “we” can prevent anyone from developing or marketing this toy.
WTH? I remember the Pet Rock… I’m betting more rocks were sold than Biofire will sell handguns.
I would suspect, however, that like EVs, wind and solar farms, housing projects like I mentioned above, etc., the Feds will be subsidizing this to bring the price down and try to quash “excuses” to buy them. Maybe even mandate that blue city cops have to carry them to move things along.
“Maybe even mandate that blue city cops have to carry them to move things along.”
That would be nice, however…..
When govt needs cops to discipline the public, govt will not want to put their agents at disadvantage.
“WTH? I remember the Pet Rock…”
I still have mine.
Awesome pet. I trained him (Rocky) to sit, and to this day, hasn’t budged an inch… 🙂
My pet rock was a stray I found and trained myself. I was a poor kid.
“When govt needs cops to discipline the public, govt will not want to put their agents at disadvantage.”
C’mon, Sam. Just months ago these same blue cities “leaders” were out to defund their entire departments… What better way to do that than get their cops KIA? Empathy, sympathy and a lot cheaper than paying out the pensions. I’d think IL would be right out in front on this.
Yeah them wind turbines kinda fucked up the beauty of the flint hills that’s for sure.
I suppose we need them but we wouldn’t if there were less humans.
More gay humans and make abortion mandatory 👍
It’s a Waco Branch Davidian thing, to save the children we must destroy them.
the best thing that could happen is this gizmo gets someone killed who relied on it…the subsequent lawsuit should put an end to this discussion….
“No!” Just “No!” Once commercially available in the marketplace it’s mere existence “triggers” laws already enacted in Democrat-controlled states like N.J. which require by statute that these tech-laden, crash-prone, and likely hackable/disableable (by the Feds) instruments of unreliability be the only handguns “approved” to be sold by retailers.
We don’t need to spend our money financing lawsuits (while “the state” has unlimited resources to motion & appeal us into oblivion) when we can destroy this thing, the Bio(won’t)Fire, now, before any retailer betrays the 2nd Amendment community by offering it for sale.
Our aim should be simple, we MUST do what was done in Maryland (or was it Delaware) the last time a manufacturer and small shop tried to pawn one of these things off on us, boycott and drive the storefront out of business, it’ll serve as a warning to others that dare cross us.
the best thing that could happen is this gizmo gets someone killed who relied on it…the subsequent lawsuit should put an end to this discussion….
“PC LOAD LETTER”
“What the F does that mean?”
Damn it feels good to be a gangsta.
@Geoff “I’m getting too old for this shit” PR
“What class of the Militia are you referring to?”
Seems the founders made no distinction at all:
“I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few public officials.”
– George Mason
when the cops and military buy into this…then and only then…will I take it seriously…..
“Males at least 17 years of age and under 45… That leaves me out…”
Note: all the later definitions of “the Militia” contained in federal law, were created to benefit govt, not the people (which is why I chose Geo. Mason’s comment). The intent of Mason, one of the writers of the Constitution. was to prevent govt from limiting the militia, in numbers and power. And that although required to arm the militia, govt would seek to fail at its responsibility, as a means of weakening the threat of the militia to discipline the federal govt.
The “Militia Acts” amended the constitution through simple legislation.
AND?… That still leaves me out of the “Well regulated” stuff…I’ll gladly provide my own firearms as part of the “unregulated” family branch…
“That still leaves me out of the “Well regulated” stuff…I’ll gladly provide my own firearms as part of the “unregulated” family branch…”
The Militia is The Militia; there is only one. the “regulated”/”unregulated”, “regular”/”irregular”, “organized”/”unorganized” Militia is a modern, Leftist construct, used as a means to reduce “the Militia” non-existent.
I really don’t care, I’m going to own and carry whatever the fuck I want too, semantics and rhetoric won’t protect me and mine in the REAL world… Make my stuff illegal and I will be an outlaw (won’t be the first time) try to take my stuff and I WILL become a martyr for the cause (that WILL be a first for me)… This is a moot conversation…
At the time that the 2A was written, “well-regulated” in common usage meant “operating well; in good working order.” Militia members were expected to be proficient with their (own/owned) weapon, carry adequate ammo and supplies, and maintain the arm.
It had nothing to do with external regulation by a government or other entity.
Have Baltimore PD or Chicago PD use it for their issue gun for a few years. if it works in a place like that it is good enough imo. Not my cup of tea, but the idea of only an authorized user being able to use is not a bad one, but the technology has yet to be tested in a life or death event. I don’t get paid enough to be that guinea pig.
I guarantee you that there is a hardwired backdoor incorporated in the microchip that enables the police, military and the entire alphabet soup of government to remotely deactivate that smart gun.
Could use a directional EMP?… does not require hardwired “back door”…
Yes, and there is no practical way of defeating it.
The main problem being, the infinitesimal distances between components on that chip.
The closer they are together, the easier it is to get a spark to jump, frying it…
“I guarantee you that there is a hardwired backdoor incorporated in the microchip that enables the police, military and the entire alphabet soup of government to remotely deactivate that smart gun.”
Whether or not a “backdoor” exists, proceed as if it does.
@Craig in IA
“C’mon, Sam. Just months ago these same blue cities “leaders” were out to defund their entire departments”
The term “defund” is a cover for “reduce”; convincing the dimwits that cops are gone, but keeping cops around. As to actually eliminating cops, Dims are expert at virtue signaling, then tapping into states where a now-missing resource is available for rent/mutual support in times of crisis.
When cops are needed to correct the public, cops will be made available.
“When cops are needed to correct the public, cops will be made available.”
Hmmm. Tell that to the people of Portland, Seattle, San Francisco, Chicago, et al. Not so much- unless you feel the crime driving people out of these places in droves is “correcting” the people. I see it differently- eventually these places will run out of real taxpayers, about the same time all the debt incurred by the Feds and these local, give-way governments will come due. Speculate away…
“Tell that to the people of Portland, Seattle, San Francisco, Chicago, et al.”
Cops weren’t needed, as the chaos and rampant crime in those cities were endorsed/encouraged by government. The people in the streets did not need to be corrected.
Go on all you want.
I doubt , however, people fleeing these cities, in numbers as they are, fit the “original plan” you’re putting forth. We’ll see, soon enough. At this point even NY and Chicago have been unable to force people to remain, all the while reeling, economically, from all the illegals being sent their way as replacements for the former taxpayers
whale, after the tax base beats a retreat, the blue feds will send funds to the blue towns from the red pool.
everywhere that implements these dopey policies are counting on govt relief.
Need not even be blue feds. Could be “compassionate conservative” feds, or feds trying to sway undecided voters (not like that happened in the last three years or so🙄).
Who really cares? I have so many firearms that work without this high tech shit it’s almost funny. But, I’m a FUDD.
I have so many firearms that work without this high tech shit it’s almost funny.
Yeah, none of my guns are “rocket scientists” either… In fact, none of them have shown a proclivity to do ANYTHING without external input…
“In fact, none of them have shown a proclivity to do ANYTHING without external input…”
Rust happens with zero external input…
Rust happens with zero external input…
Rust occurs when iron or certain alloys are exposed to oxygen and moisture over a period time and is not an action of the firearm (usually results from neglect which in itself is an external input),… Try keeping them out of the mud? Cleaning them regularly? I’ve never had that problem…
disagree. external input is the cause.
previous owner tried to make my s’blackhawk smarter. now it has a transfer bar and a yellow box. the white box is worth more than the pistol (an exaggeration). i’ve a mind to make it stupid again.
Any dealer that betrays the 2nd Amendment community by selling/stocking the BioFire MUST be boycotted and driven out of business. Once the tech-laden (destined to malfunction) POS becomes commercially available it triggers laws in such despotic fiefdoms such as N.J. and other Demofascist-controlled gulags which then further restrict purchasers to what handguns they buy.
untrue. for now.
Any dealer that betrays the 2nd Amendment community by selling/stocking the BioFire MUST be boycotted and driven out of business. Once the tech-laden (destined to malfunction) becomes commercially available it triggers laws in such despotic fiefdoms such as N.J. and other Demofascist-controlled gulags which then further restrict purchasers to what handguns they buy.
aha, one and the same. love one of your monikers (monicas) but you’re starting to sound like the guy who kept saying illinois has duty to inform… we don’t and jersey doesn’t.
@Geoff “I’m getting too old for this shit” PR
“What we cannot do is squander the period of time away, letting them frame the conversation….”
Haven’t the anti-gun mob already accomplished that?
@Craig in IA
“I doubt , however, people fleeing these cities, in numbers as they are, fit the “original plan” you’re putting forth.”
We are having two different conversations. My observation has nothing to do with the impact of lack of police on the general public, but with the ability of certain cities to claim the moral high ground by vastly reducing, or eliminating police departments, while actually relying on other locales to provide police presence when it suits those municipalities who claim to be restoring equity.
In such conditions, the effect on the general population is not of concern to government; their stance makes them proud of themselves, and chasing the deplorables out of the cities is a great side effect. (Note: explanation is not the same as support/endorsement.)
they wanted citadel, boeing, caterpillar and tyson to leave. yup.
just think “Detroit”….because that’s where they’re all headed….
“the best thing that could happen is this gizmo gets someone killed who relied on it”
Well, a dead gun owner is one less person who can “snap” and shoot-up a mall, theater, grocery store. We all are constantly on the edge of some little inconvenience ending up in a mass shooting.
Thinking about it…..anyone who wants to legally purchase a firearm demonstrates a need to be barred from the purchase. Such persons should be diverted to a boob and dork enhancement procedure. Make love, not war.
@Man with no name
“At the time that the 2A was written, “well-regulated” in common usage meant “operating well; in good working order.” ”
I quit reading this thread after the first dozen posts — have found one actual serious comment in among a bunch of idiotic trash. This is more like the garbage I expect to find at AmmoLand or other worthless online trash dumps.
My congratulations to Eric in Oregon for attempting to interject a brief note of sanity into the discussion, and my condolences at his being shouted down by the gaggle of complete idiots like I Haz A Question and the chicken shit hiding behind “anonymous”