I’m not a Krav Maga expert, nor do I play one on the Internet. But this “choke ’em with the gun” defense looks unnecessary, difficult and ineffective. As far as I know, the goal is to incapacitate an attacker and leave, rather than put him or her into some kind of submission hold. Distance is your friend. But hey, whatever works, right?
If your gun ain’t malfunctioning, don’t try to pistol whip with it. It might have reason to malfunction after that.
Sadly, I can’t do that hold.
I don’t have a beard.
Yes, you must have a tacti-beard to practice Krav Maga! Yarmulke is optional though.
This is, IMHO, completely retarded.
The point of most submission holds is that if you keep up the tomfuckery I’m going to start breaking shit in ways that really limit your ability to continue attacking me. Yes, now you feel pain, but if you keep screwing around I’m going to break your wrist, elbow, knee, neck, back, shoulder etc. The kind of injury that seriously compromises your ability to continue attacking me or maybe even kills you.
Breaking your jaw doesn’t do that. Give someone half an 8-ball of nose candy and they won’t much care that you broke their jaw. Break their elbow and no amount of beak is going to change the fact that their arm is useless.
Further, once you have that hold on someone why the actual fuck are you not choking them? You don’t have to drop your gun to apply a rear naked from that position and doing so will put them to sleep in a few seconds.
This isn’t Hitman you’re not taking a hostage and if your gun was working you wouldn’t be in this position in the first place which means, very likely, if there are other people coming after you they know your gun isn’t working because if it was you’d have used it by now.
Something else: Why did your gun malfunction? I know, for myself, my HD shotgun just doesn’t malfunction. I don’t short-stroke it, I feed it ammo it likes, and I keep it in top condition.
Is there a one-in-a-million chance something will break? Yes. How many real HD scenarios am I going to experience? Probably none. What is the chance that one-in-a-million chance will happen during a HD scenario? Somewhere between slim and none.
And Slim is riding out of town.
But, operators gotta operate. I do have the beard for it, though.
This sort of thing is really nice, if not important, for people who actually seek out encounters with bad guys, IMO.
I am no longer 20 years old and in the infantry. (stupid & young) I am not in a Hollywood action movie. (scripted) I was never an “operator” or a wanna be. I have, with 8 other men, attempted to subdue a skinny guy on PCP/LSD cocktail in the interest of public saftey.
Being older, wiser, and much slower, I am more of a “nuke em’ from orbit” kinda of guy, now.
Can’t fault you for that. It’s the only way to be sure.
and you would still have that attitude if someone ELSE has orbital nukes? like say ISIS
I would nuke isis from orbit before they got nukes. Duh.
“and you would still have that attitude if someone ELSE has orbital nukes? like say ISIS”
Seriously? That’s what you think was said?
The point was this: I am too old and decrepit to try to learn Kung Fu, so I’ll just shoot the guy.
Chief Jay Strongbow might approve of this hold, but I’m too old to dance with a bad guy. If it’s all the same to you, I’d rather shoot the bastard if he’s got it coming.
and if he does this…..’monkeys might fly out of my ass’… and if he does this…’I might fart tulips’…
some one has a lot of time on their hands… jeez
Remember, in NYC, self-defense with a gun – even using the attacker’s gun – can cost you major legal expenses and possible incarceration. Better to choke the guy out – and keep the hold for a minute or two longer than necessary.
Distance. Is. Your. Friend. Period.
I prefer, BANG and walk away alive, at 76, I sure ain’t gonna run or fight.
He missed the most obvious operator move; poke the attacker’s finger into the chamber and drop the slide and he will be incapacitated instantly. This ninja like move also works on nose cartilage as well as the jugular area.
Ha! I actually did that to myself once (don’t ask me how it happened, I don’t know).
I laugh about it now, but at the time it was no joke. You can’t just pull your finger out, because the extractor is embedded in your fingernail. And it’s hard to rack the slide when one of the hands you need to do so is stuck in it. It’s like a Chinese finger trap, only more painful and a lot more ‘Murica.
But my beard is operator AF, so I got free and lived to tell the tale.
Yep, like when the slide comes back and separates the thumbnail from the thumb. If it happens, it only happens once.
My friend, when he was in the Corps in Iraq told me the story about how there was a line for some beer, he was going to get the last case but guy behind him was trying to make a deal to get it. So my friend tells him sure, I’ll let you have it if you drop the slide on your M9 on the webbing between your index finger and thumb….. he did it and no one would help him get it off.
Or unzip his fly and give’em the ol’ “Garand-dick!” That right there will cause unspeakable, incapacitating pain.
The point of several holds like this in Krav Maga is to restrain a bad guy while one of your fellow IDF can run up and put a bullet in his head, because you already used all yours up killing that bad guy’s buddies and your knife got stuck in his ribcage. They’re not useless to the IDF, but they are very specialized techniques for very specific circumstances, and for 99.99995% of civilians and cops they’re about as necessary as knowing how to distill your own gasoline.
…They sure do look badass, though.
Until you do it when you don’t have backup, do it to someone who has some knowledge of the hold you’re applying and that person turns it around on you. Now you’re sitting on your ass with no back up staring at an angry guy who’s on his feet with a gun you can’t use.
That hold he’s using is *facepalm* easy to get out of and turn into a taking him to the ground. At best he ends up with the guy in guard. Medium sauce it’s a scramble. Worst, he’s on his back in full mount getting his face beat in with his own pistol.
Without backup this is flat-out retarded. Do this to someone with a month of BJJ or Judo experience and you’re gonna find out what your own pistol tastes like.
You’re onto something. My Krav and BJJ experience is very limited, but enough to know that I’m in very deep trouble against a competent practitioner of either when empty handed, even if the opponent doesn’t have a size or strength or conditioning advantage (and against me most will). However, I did find that most submission holds left my tormentor vulnerable to debilitating or fatal knife attacks, or to being shot with my BUG. At a club we tried this over and over with a pair of martial artists brought in for the experiment. We gunners were surprised at the way we got pretzeled over and over again. The martial artists were aghast at how often we drew knives or second or third guns and shot, cut or stabbed them.
Mostly we gunners learned that we were out of shape, and that the tueller drill might be the single most important one. The MAs learned that they would often be shot at least once on the approach, and that failing to immediately incapacitate both our arms generally resulted in being stabbed or shot.
Interesting stuff, but the bigger lesson was: In a life and death struggle, half measures will get you killed or maimed, and by the time you realize the guy you just grabbed has another weapon it’s way to late to avoid a potentially fight ending, life altering injury.
Also, none of us gunners took up Krav or BJJ, but both young martial artists now have CCW permits.
Lemme go back and look at what I wrote:
“…while one of your fellow IDF can run up and put a bullet in his head…”
Yep, that’d be the backup part. Let’s see what else I said:
“…for very specific circumstances…”
Well damn, looks like I said that, too. Why is it that know-it-alls never seem to know what it is they’re trying to respond to?
This isn’t Krav Maga, it’s “Nauka fighting method” (Serbian) and it’s BS. Something this convoluted wouldn’t be used or taught in Krav.
I have seen Ryan Hoover use both of these techniques they are relatively common.
Sooo… I’m a 39 y/o Kenpo blue belt slooooowly working his way towards black, so while I’m no expert, I’m going to go out on a limb and say I’m at least a little knowledgeable. And this video makes me shake my head.
First, distance may be you’re friend, but sometimes that’s simply not a feasible solution given the situation. But that being said, putting someone into a choke hold… or any hold… with no intention to swiftly incapacitate them is just asking for trouble. The goal is to ALWAYS end a confrontation as quickly as possible. Either deescalate it, leave (distance is your friend), or if those two options aren’t going to work, drop or chase off the perpetrator (it is that other guy starting things, right?) quickly. Putting some dude in a perpetual hold simply prolongs the struggle indefinitely… and unless you have a badge and backup is on the way, will most likely end poorly for you. Either you will be struggling indefinitely with the guy you’re holding as he tries to get loose (and eventually, you will screw up and he’ll get loose), or if he has a buddy, you’ve now no way to defend yourself because you’re holding onto that dude.
The guy with the gun had multiple opportunities to strike some pretty hard blows with his jammed gun, as well as his elbows and knees, and passed them up to do… what exactly?
If I tried something like that, my instructor or another black belt might smack me upside the head for being dumb.
If they know what they’re doing, which I would think they do, that head smack will be after they put you on your ass.
Yep, pretty much. o.O
Krav Maga is awesome. MCMAP is even better, both are worth the go, and it’s also worth, every so often, finding out how hard GOD attached your soul to your body. It’s fierce.
But, in a conflict, nothing beats Ching Pow [rack the slide and pull the trigger]!
“Ching Pow” Joe, I’m totally stealing that!
The thing about all these ninja moves is, sure, they might work… in a very specific type of occasion that almost no one will ever encounter (except for trying to show that you’re a badass by demonstrating at a party). But stuff like this needs to be practiced. People who actually have to physically get into it with people usually get one move and practice it a lot; this can be a problem in MMA where your opponent can study you and expect it but other than that it’s a lot more effective than having a bunch of different secret agent moves all tailored to specific scenarios.
Where is that other IDF vet that’s on here? Maybe he had a different experience.
When I was in we spent all of two weeks (if I recall) on Krav Maga. No fancy holds, just a way to disarm a knife, pistol and rifle. Then a few simple rifle techniques. Nothing mind blowing. The original creator of Krav Maga had a background in wrestling and boxing and advocated very simple and quick techniques. After that I never did it again.
A lot of these “instructors ” are making a mountain out of a molehill so they can do business. Recently it was revealed one of the more famous instructors (Moti something) was never Israeli Special forces. The guy had been on TV shows and in movies.
Take all this Israeli training with a grain of salt.
“Distance is your friend.” I’ve heard that somewhere before.
Sorry, I am not going to risk my life on a gamble that the bad guy is not on drugs, doesn’t have better martial arts training, isn’t going to get a lucky blow in, and doesn’t have friends waiting to get in the fight.
+1 You’d also be gambling that he doesn’t have a krambit on his belt that he’s just been itching to experiment on a human with. I’m my own experience, while not nearly exhaustive, submission holds largely depend on the person expected to submit not having an immediate, ingrained and robust escape plan. Since I have one of those (several actually, ballistic, edged and and impact, EDC) I have to assume the opponent might as well. A whole lot of these holds will result in being maimed or killed when tried on an armed opponent.
I’d wager that spending the time on tap rack bang would yield more benefit than this stuff.
I don’t see why, if your gun is empty or has malfunctioned, you don’t just beat him the head with it. Gotta be easier than trying to put a chokehold on a guy.
Get out of the idea that “distance is your friend.” It’s wishful thinking at best.
If your opponent can control or harm you from a distance farther than you can control or harm your opponent, then distance is your opponent’s friend.
wanta B super hero stuff, too much work and physical activity for me, and being a practitioner of KISS and with so many variables in scenario think I’d opt for a frontal attack
I thought this was a video about helping your paraplegic buddy shoot his handgun at the range…. is that not what this is?