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Statement From Palmetto State Armory on Pistol Brace Regulation

From Palmetto State Armory . . .

Palmetto State Armory strongly opposes the guidance and opinion found in Docket Number ATF 2020R-10 and recognize it as a direct attack on both our freedom as well as the constitution.

Together we are the last line of defense between freedom and tyranny. Palmetto State Armory pledges its monetary and moral support to those who join us in fighting the proposed guidance and any future infringements.

Find your Congressman. Make your voice heard. Remember to include Docket Number ATF 2020R-10 in your correspondence:

comments

  1. avatar Stateisevil says:

    No relief unless we’re armed and organized. Zero of the latter and the time for talk is waning.

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      Unfortunately for me as a Californian, one of my Senators is a rabid anti-gunner who championed gun bans on both state and federal levels (Dianne Feinstein), and the other is a rabid anti-gunner who quite literally whores** herself out to advance her career (Kamala Harris). So there’s no hope in contacting my Senators. I hope others out there can have better success with yours.

      **not the word I’d prefer to use, but in this case it’s literally the truth.

      1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

        My 2 senators and 1 lone congressman are 3 of the most worthless things on two legs, that doesn’t keep me from writing them each and every time.

        1. avatar anonymous says:

          Find your Congressman. Make your voice heard. Remember to include Docket Number ATF 2020R-10 in your correspondence:

          Not going to work. We need to build up about 10,000 people to march on ATF firearms branch division. While there we “loot” the weapons stored there, and raze the building to the ground. While this happens on the inside of the “protest” we have people with placards protesting on the outer rim of the “protest” while chanting “peaceful protest.”

      2. avatar frank speak says:

        not really any better in my state…[PA]…one senator is a hard-core liberal and the other doesn’t appear to give a shit and never responds…..just a waste of time…

  2. avatar GS650G says:

    I’m sure the New Democrats care what a gun maker says. We are about to find out what a majority does to the minority without pause.

    1. avatar StLPro2A says:

      Or maybe what an armed minority does to the tyrannical majority…..aka why our Founding Fathers put tyrants on notice via the Second Amendment.

      1. avatar Montana Actual says:

        The only way to show that, is to actually fucking use it. That means instead of just saying “I will not comply”, you hire private security (because most of us still need jobs) and when the tyrants show up they understand that there is only one option left – bloodshed. Otherwise, nothing happens. All these businesses are being attacked financially, and when they say “enough” they still let the “raids” take place. So what do you want, dangerous freedoms? Or peaceful slavery?

        1. avatar Weapon of War says:

          True. It is being demonstrated before our eyes that negotiations have been eliminated. They are 90% to their goal of an actual overthrow of our republic. Writing your “elected” officials will accomplish zero. People better wake the fuck up.

      2. avatar GS650G says:

        Or maybe they will boil the frog and we’ll wonder just what happened.

      3. avatar frank speak says:

        tough talk…but ultimately just bullshit….

        1. avatar anonymous says:

          Wasn’t bullshit when BLM did it.

    2. avatar Fr. James Rosselli says:

      Who says we’re a minority? We won that election, if you don’t count the phony ballots and the rigged voting machines. We are a clear majority.We’re just lazy.

  3. avatar Nonips says:

    And that is one main reason we can Not allow the criminal biden, the whore harris, to ever get control, and then we have to bring in very strict laws to keep socialist, communist, atheists, Islamist, and perverted in our government state and federal, plus able to Fire, prosecute, any and all corrupt politicians, judges, state and federal we have to never allow this garbage to ever happen again, sense obama has admitted he was not born in America all that he did including obcare, and other criminal behavior he and his intire administration needs removed from our records he and his entire family deported citizenship revoked, never allowed in this country for their natural lives, and the likes of holder Treason the fbi, cia, nsa, epa all top officials fired all benefits revoked

    1. avatar napresto says:

      Slow down there fella! Let me introduce you to my good friend, Mr. Punctuation. You should get to know him. He’s a real hit when you invite him to insane internet rants – er, raves.

      1. avatar David K says:

        HOLY RUN ON SENTENCE!

        1. avatar Nutjob says:

          Could use some help with spelling as well

      2. avatar Doc Samson says:

        Lol! Seriously…

      3. avatar This guy lies ^^^^^^^ says:

        Stf u…… FELLA…
        Nobody cares about punctuation in a time like this you filthy little MFER…..
        Keep on preaching it NONIPS…. These fudds will get it….. one way or another…

        1. . . . I agree with you ! . . When in a foxhole, I don’t care for proper grammar, proper heart is what I want to see ! . . Kudos for your standing up for another patriot !

      4. avatar J Edmunds says:

        Really?? we are about to loose our second amendment rights, and you guys want to pick a guy apart for grammar??? This is why we loose so many fights, LOOK… a squirrel. Keep your eye on the ball for Christ sake.

    2. avatar GS650G says:

      Yeah, I’m sure all that isn’t just possible but will happen shortly.

      Get a grip and a few periods while you’re at it.

      1. avatar Inbred fudds are part of the problem says:

        Get on the pos motorcycle and run it into a brick wall….. do us all a favor you rice burning H O M O

        1. avatar A doi says:

          The GS is a German motorcycle you halfwit.

  4. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

    Again, they shouldn’t be illegal, but braces and bump stocks, are just toys, not arms. Therefore not constitutionaly protected any more than a scope is. Sorry for the cold, wet slap in the face. It is what it is. Who would want a pretend machine gun anyway? That’s just sad.

    1. avatar Simon says:

      I disagree. A component of a gun makes it a part of an arm, which should fall under the umbrella of “shall not be infringed.”

      1. avatar Montana Actual says:

        You are speaking to a proud FUDD. He also hates AR’s. His stances and use of that username is a disgrace to what that flag represents.

        1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

          “…Again, they shouldn’t be illegal…

          First thing Gadson said quoted and he’s right they should not be illegal.

          However, I agree that a ‘bumpstock’ is a range toy compared to a NFA MP5.

          I, myself, can not justify buying a NFA auto anything. I’m cheap when it comes to ammo.

          That does not make me a ‘Fudd’, nor Gadson. Fighting between POTG does nothing to advance our Causes.

        2. avatar Hush says:

          Gadsden Flag, “Again, they shouldn’t be illegal”
          Statement made by Gadsden relative to pistol braces and followed by, ” but braces and bump stocks, are just toys, not arms.”
          Nothing difficult to understand and Gadsden has spoken truth. Without the bump stock or brace will the remaining part function as a gun? Well…….yes, then there’s your gun.

        3. avatar D.T.O.M. says:

          Not exactly a thinker, are you Flags?

          If “braces …are just toys, not arms.” Then by your (IL) Logic the forearm, barrel shroud (you know it as “the shoulder thingy that goes up”), the pistol grip, the stock, and all furniture is not “constitutionaly” (perhaps you meant to say constitutionally…but you are not a thinker) protected.

          Plus your mention of scopes not being “constitutionaly” protected (cough, cough…Steyr AUG) perhaps by your profound deep thinking sights are not protected either.

        4. avatar Montana Actual says:

          Manse and Hush, you are both terribly confused. Everything about Gadsden is a fudd. It’s not about will it still function without a brace at all… how about looking at WHY a brace is needed in the first place? Stupid hypocrisy, that’s why. And you’d buy into it or they’d take your shit too.

    2. avatar doesky2 says:

      Let me the first to say ….Fuck off Fudd!

      1. avatar Eric in Oregon says:

        You’re not the first to say it, sadly Gads has been around here before. He’s a serious Fudd though.

      2. avatar Montana Actual says:

        You are not the first by a long shot. Gadsden is a FUDD by all definitions of the word.

        Fuck you Gadsden. Change your fucking name you phony ass.

    3. avatar GRA says:

      Gadsden Flag you don’t have the slightest idea what you’re talking about. You’re more the reason Biden and Harris succeeds than the voter fraud itself. TROLL GO SUCK EGGS.

    4. avatar No one of Consequence says:

      You’re wrong, simple as that. That way leads to a thousand infringements leaving you with, in the end, nothing.

      But you know that and, I suppose, don’t care.

    5. avatar Ron says:

      I’ve got the feeling “Gadsden” here may have just outed himself as another concern troll, or possibly a deep troll. Maybe one of Miner’s, Enuf’s, or Chief’s alter egos.

      The snarky quip really gave it away. That’s trolling 101.

    6. avatar Rando says:

      By the same logic ammunition and magazines aren’t protected either.

      I guess the founders only wanted to secure the right to the musket, no powder, no balls, no ramrod.

      By the way democratic legislators have literally made this argument.

    7. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

      my sister worked for mattel, hasbro and wham-o! so i think that she is qualified to determine whether something is a toy.
      what are your babysitting credentials? where did you work swallowing buckyballs? playing intensely with klick- klacks until they exploded, did you design the jart?
      life is a coathanger and rubber bands slingshot, not an a.g. russell full auto wrist rocket.

    8. avatar Gadsen fag says:

      Not you again…… trying to sow division.
      . AGAIN……..
      Nobody cares about your opinion, but millions of bump stock and brace owners do care that their firearms components and other items are being banned slowly……
      So get your stupid a$$ back outside yelling at the kids to get off your lawn……
      YOU DIP$HIT PIG….

      1. avatar Craig in IA says:

        I really have no horse in the race to opinion concerning Gadsen Flag’s posting but I sure hope all of you who are piling on and picking obviously low-hanging fruit have also made some more intelligent comments to BATFE in the appropriate place on their site and have also contacted your US Senators (2) and Rep (1) in a non-threatening, coherent manner concerning these attachments and why new regs or restrictions will affect you, personally, as an American citizen. Forget the Constitution- explain why it will affect you and/or your family. Don’t waste time here…

        I’m betting a fair number won’t dare post once they find they must provide their contact info to ATF. Pity for all of us.

        Stand up and fight! The Second Amendment is to be celebrated, not just defended.

        1. avatar Weapon of War says:

          Sure, that’ll work. Cause they give a shit about your letter or call. THEY JUST STOLE AN AMERICAN PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. NEGOTIATIONS HAVE BROKEN DOWN. Wake. Dafuq. Up. They don’t need your votes or care about your fkng opinion or politely worded letter.

    9. avatar Vaportrail says:

      The atf has no power to regulate toys.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “The atf has no power to regulate toys.”

        Yet.

  5. avatar Peter says:

    All gun shops across the USA should sell silencers over the counter just like any other gun accessory starting immediately and add a free pistol brace with each purchase, no registration or whatever. What would the ATF do? Raid them all? Lock everyone up, inclugding the buyers? Just show them they’re not in charge of anything, they are supposed to be working for the people not against them. If not, get ready to stand in line to turn in your AR’s and AK’s starting January.

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      That’s sort of like saying everyone should Naruto run at area 51… what are they going to do, stop everyone? (spoiler: yes)

      It’s terribly easy to suggest that other people do something that could end their careers and maybe lives unless you’re doing it yourself to show them the way.

      1. avatar Ron says:

        To lock up all the buyers they’d have to release tons of real criminals…

        Oh wait…

    2. avatar Craig in IA says:

      “All gun shops across the USA should sell silencers over the counter just like any other gun accessory starting immediately and add a free pistol brace with each purchase, no registration or whatever.”

      K, Pete. You going to pay for the “free” braces, lost income/property and legal fees?

      Go post your comments to ATF…

  6. avatar Dennis Sumner says:

    My “alleged” representation” is Bernie and “Mushmouth Leahy”! Need I say more!?

  7. avatar nope says:

    If we need to fight and not let this stand, why are all the pistol braces removed from PSA stores before anything the ATF has done is even official?

  8. avatar Bigus Dickus says:

    Meanwhile, Palmetto State Armory is one of the online ammo retailers scalping us with their ammo prices.

    1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

      I stood in line for about 30min. couple of weeks ago at PSA.

      Store was sold out of just about everything.

  9. avatar Prndll says:

    How easily the message can get lost.

    I’m not likely to ever want any kind of brace but I’ll never stand in anyone else’s way either. I think people are just getting frustrating and tired of all the bs (and it is bs). I’m sure that braces are exactly what some people need. Truthfully, if the whole SBR thing were not such an NFA thing then the brace thing wouldn’t even be a thing. The better way to go would be to remove SBR’s from the NFA. Better still would be to remove the NFA. There is so much wasted on this whole thing.

  10. avatar Anon says:

    For those who think Palmetto State is scalping: They are in business to make $, it’s also why I work.

    Sometime ago, I purchased a complete upper AR-15 from them for $417 delivered. Now it is over $800. I didn’t have to but at $417 I did and I won’t buy at over $800.

    For those short of ammo you can head out to a country LGS and get good prices considering todays market for ammo, or do what I and many others did, buy low and go shooting, it’s called stocking up.

  11. avatar Rusty - Molon Labe - Chains says:

    I spent hours reading and thinking about this document and my response. The last two paragraphs of what I am about to submit are below:

    Saving the worst of all for last: “No single factor or combination of factors is necessarily dispositive, and FATD examines each weapon holistically on a case-by-case basis.” This is the single most horrific statement I have ever seen from a federal agency! You are essentially saying “we will know it when we see it” but pistols are not art, they are a physical item with real physical size, shape, and weight that anyone should be able to measure, yet in this document there are no specific, “objective factors” for determining when a pistol equipped with a stabilizing brace will be considered a short-barrel rifle. Further you appear to want to keep the ability to determine if a braced pistol is actually a short-barrel rifle a secret known only to ATF for the purpose of springing a felony got-ya on an unsuspecting citizen at your own discretion.

    In summery if this document was intended to give clear and objective standards and guidance, then it has failed miserably. If this was intended to muddy the water further and create fear and doubt and continue to destroy the already shaky faith of the American people in the ATF and the DOJ, you have a massive success on your hands.

  12. avatar Sam I Am says:

    This is so easy, even a caveman can do it:

    “Any device, composed of any material (organic or other) that allows, permits, supports, enables, causes or results in allowing any firearm constructed to be fired from the hand only to be safely, comfortably, effectively fired from the shoulder is de facto constructive possession, whether attached or not, of a Short Barreled Rifle or Shotgun. Any person constructively in possession of such devices must also have in possession a proof of purchase of all components, and a valid Tax Stamp, along with proper registration in the National Firearms Registry. Failure to comply is a Federal felony.”

    Feel free to point out subjective criteria prior to suggesting this definition to the BATFRBFEE (Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms Really Big Fires and Everything Else).

    1. avatar Joshua Liberty says:

      Does anyone besides me see a problem with the “whether attached or not” part? What if you own both an AR pistol and an AR rifle? Are you not then two push pins and 15 seconds away from swapping the rifle lower onto the pistol upper and committing a felony? Can this be considered “constructive possession”?

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “Are you not then two push pins and 15 seconds away from swapping the rifle lower onto the pistol upper and committing a felony?”

        Feature, not a bug. Thus the brilliance of my wordsmithing for the BATFRBFEEE to adopt. The definition is both objective and flexible enough to meet growing needs.

      2. avatar Anymouse says:

        Intent is based on having a possible legal configuration. If you only have a rifle lower and a 10″ upper, there is no legal way for you to use the 10″ upper, so it shows intent to make an illegal configuration. If you have a pistol and rifle lower, the 10″ upper can be used on the pistol lower, so you have a way to legally use the 10″ upper. With the pistol lower, you can even put on a stock if it is also equipped with a barrel over 16″. Rifles have to stay rifles and meet minimum barrel and overall length requirements. If you actually put the 10″ lower on a rifle (or pistol with a stock), you’ve created an unregistered SBR, and BATFE will shoot your dog and bust down your door at 3am.

        1. avatar ColBullSigh says:

          You mean–They’ll shoot your dog and your kid, then your wife as she’s holding your baby!
          Then they’ll get off scot free!

    2. avatar Ing says:

      They’re a progressive government agency, not cavemen; vagueness and obfuscation are signs of their advanced intellect and pure intentions.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “They’re a progressive government agency, not cavemen; vagueness and obfuscation are signs of their advanced intellect and pure intentions.”

        It’s where I learned the trade of regulation writing, reinforced this morning with four fingers of Jameson’s.

  13. avatar Connor Haughton says:

    Amen. PSA has been consistently pro-2A since their founding, they have one of the best records around in my opinion. Continuing to sell all the pistol kits and braces they can, while providing a notice re: current shenanigans on brace listings, and NOT price gouging (borderline so far) are the two (three?) things I hope they will live up to.

    Either way, every AR they produce makes it that much harder to institute and enforce future gun control (new federal AWB, which I expect to face in the coming few years). Keep up the good work and continue your defense of the 2nd, PSA!

    1. avatar Hush says:

      Considering recent news relative to PSA’s pricing, one has to wonder, is their motivation a respect for the 2A or is it profit? Many comments seem to reflect PSA saying, we got it but it ain’t cheap.

      1. avatar Yep says:

        Can’t pay the bills with an amendment

        1. avatar Hush says:

          “Can’t pay the bills with an amendment”
          That goes without saying and one can’t remain in business by giving their products away.
          However, others seem to have found a way to do both, that is, respect the 2A and charge a fair price.
          But, it is their product and they can charge as they please. Also, the buyer can either buy or shop elsewhere.

        2. avatar dph says:

          Really, go somewhere else? Good luck finding parts, guns or ammo any cheaper anywhere else right now. This a capitalistic country, they are only charging what the market will bear. If enough people don’t buy a product because of the price the retailer will either lower their prices or go out of business. Further if you think they shouldn’t charge higher prices you can just go fuck yourself because you probably should’ve bought what you needed when it cheap, you know like the last 4 years. If you don’t like the prices being charged now, just wait 6 months, you’re going to be really livid.

  14. avatar American Patriot says:

    That just makes me feel sooo much better now that PSA “Strongly” disagrees!
    I think my life will be changed forever…….

    1. avatar Montana Actual says:

      lol.

      You could not pay me to buy a PSA… not even their “PREMIUM CHF UPPERS”. I had one for less than a month before I got my BCM. PSA is cheap for a bunch of reasons. Will it work? Maybe… if it’s clean and has the right ammo. Is it accurate? no. Especially at distances beyond 100 yards. For a cheapo deapo home defense rifle, maybe?!?! But I would not invest in anything other than a canned .300 for something like that. I like my hearing and I know if I don’t even have time to put on my slippers, I won’t have time for earpro or the rest of my gear either.

      But hey, one mans trash is another larpers treasure.

  15. avatar RedFlaggedandBagged says:

    Bumpstocks banned under Trump.

    Bracestocks banned under Trump.

    Ammo and gun shortages and price gouging under Trump.

    Explain again how Trump is protecting the RKBA?

    1. avatar Weapon of War says:

      Biden will do better for you. Heels up Harris will fulfill your dreams.

      1. avatar RedFlaggedandBagged says:

        Just keep voting! Its working out great!

  16. avatar Gene Ralno says:

    This is a mercifully short response to a terrible new regulation. Now it’s up to the rest of the 2nd Amendment world to stand strong against government tormentors, violently if necessary. But we’ll find few who are willing to respond with violence. Too bad because BATFE agents won’t hesitate to shoot violators of their edicts.

    This regulation is another infringement that should worry the entire citizenry. If they get away with this one, doubtlessly, they’ll target another accessory necessary to a chosen legitimate use of one’s firearms. For example, in some quarters, they’ve banned bayonet lugs, barrel shrouds and combinations of two or more things.

    This signals more leftist imaginings of what might hamper new interest in the shooting sports or self protection. For example, purchase of specialized shooting gloves might require justification by proving the owner will shoot enough to heat the mechanism, use it in uncomfortably hot or cold weather or cause slide bite.

    The time seems to have arrived when dealers, friends and customers must stand forcefully against government tormentors. If they use armed force to have their way, capable men and women must organize and if necessary, raise militia. Failure to defend against this new democrat face will cripple freedom and the republic itself.

  17. avatar MNIce says:

    For now, this particular discussion is moot. The following is copied from a follow-up notice, dated Dec. 31, 2020, on the page for this docket item:

    “Upon further consultation with the Department of Justice and the Office of the Deputy Attorney General, ATF is withdrawing, pending further Department of Justice review, the notice and request for comments entitled “Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with `Stabilizing Braces’,” that was published on December 18, 2020. 85 FR 82516. As explained in the notice, the proposed guidance was not a regulation. The notice informed and invited comment from the industry and public on a proposed guidance prior to issuing a final guidance document.

    The withdrawal of the guidance does not change any law, regulation, or other legally binding requirement.”

    How’s that for a Christmas present?

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