The Firearms Policy Coalition recently shared a link to a crazy letter written by 20 states’ attorneys general. In the letter, these empty suits demand that the United States Army stop letting any 5.56×45 rounds from the Lake City plant be sold to the public because a vanishingly small amount of the ammo gets used in mass shootings.
But, there are several big problems with their argument, including harm this would do to the U.S. military, the fact that 5.56/.223 isn’t a particularly powerful round, and that there are so many good uses for the ammo. So, let’s take a look at the letter and then discuss why it’s dead wrong.
20 attorneys general argued today that 5.56mm ammo "should be limited to military use." https://t.co/XTlJPlzFpE pic.twitter.com/dzTtvW2G1d
— Firearms Policy Coalition (@gunpolicy) January 10, 2024
The letter, originally written by New York’s attorney general Letitia James and signed by 19 other attorneys general, tries to make the case that the military is wrong to sell excess production rounds to the civilian market. As supporting evidence, she lists several mass shootings where Lake City ammo was supposedly found, and then claims that the military is making mass shooters’ jobs easier because production is subsidized by the federal government.
The Biggest Problem With James’ Argument: Military Capacity For A Major War
Even if rounds sold to the civilian market were subsidized (more on that later), stopping this practice would greatly harm the military’s ability to deal with the next major war.
Long story short, the military would pay a LOT of money to keep a plant going and then only use a small percentage of the plant’s ammunition production capacity. Without civilian sales, this is exactly what they’d do, because the military has to have that spare capacity. Should a major war with a near-peer state like China or Russia break out, far more ammunition would be needed than is needed now with only anti-terror operations, supplying Ukraine, and regular peacetime military training.
Unlike most of the world, the United States doesn’t try to take peoples’ right to keep and bear arms away. This gives the Pentagon a much more cost-efficient option to maintain that high production capacity. By selling the excess capacity to civilians, the Pentagon has the opportunity to make US pay for the extra capacity, and even lower their costs between major wars.
So, if anything, we’re subsidizing the Pentagon by paying full price for the ammo while they get it for cost.
A Well-Regulated Militia
The other problem with James’ argument is that the 5.56mm rounds sold to the pubic ends up making for a much more skilled civilian population. Should the United States end up in a major war, many more people will be needed to fight. It’s undoubtedly true that the number of people who know how to pick up and effectively use an AR-15 is a lot higher in the United States than in most other countries.
This means that a higher number of people will feel comfortable volunteering. After every major attack on the United States, there are millions of examples of people who stepped up to the plate to fight for their country. My grandfather did this as soon as he turned 17 during World War II, and I know a number of people who ran right down to sign up after 9/11.
A great example from the post 9/11 period was Chris Kyle, a man who grew up shooting in Texas. He got his first rifle at the age of eight, and it was chambered in .30-06, an old military caliber. He later went on to become the most prolific sniper in military history during the War on Terror. If civilians hadn’t been allowed to practice with military calibers, this might have never happened.
Making it easier to get ammo also means that the draft pool will have more shooters. Many people love to shoot, but would never sign up to go fight a war. But, you can bet that they’d do better in such a war if they at least knew the basics first before getting drafted and then given minimal training before being sent off.
Very Few Lake City Rounds Are Used For Evil
The other problem with James’ argument is that the number of 5.56 rounds being misused is vanishingly small compared to the many legitimate uses. Police use the round a lot, and police are almost always civilians. Good people use rifles chambered in 5.56 for personal defense as well, and both police and non-police civilians need to practice to be effective. Recreational shooting, plinking, target shooting and competition shooting all make use of the round (and contribute to the above section).
It’s also true that 5.56x45mm is useful for hunting. It doesn’t “explode the meat” like the shitlibs claim. It might not be a good round for big game, but for many other types of hunting, it’s both useful and a great choice, particularly with predators such as coyotes.
Do we want to drive up the cost of all of the above just so that a very small number of murderers don’t have access? Definitely not. They’d still find ammo, and the rest of us would suffer for James’ wishes.
Time for DEI, in other words time for an AR-10.
The depth of the stupidity is bottomless. Does James et al really think that a person set on doing bad things is going to “only” use Lake City ammo! Even if James is successful and the price of 5.56 goes through the roof, that is not going to deter the mentally deranged from acquiring ammo just like GFZ signs don’t prevent bad people from entering.
They don’t care. They just want to stick it to you any way they can, and gradually erode your options. That’s the point.
100% truth
That and she has not accounted for those who reload. That case from Lake City might have been fired 10 times by the time it’s found at a crime scene.
I remember complaining about paying 33 cent a round. These days we are begging for 33 cent a round.
The snake squeezes harder as the prey breathes out, yet you call it stupidity.
Why doesn’t it just smarten up bite and envenomate? Because that’s not how constrictors work.
Hush, this is just another hoplophobe effort to prevent us from exercising out 2nd Amendment rights.
So, shut down the ability to purchase from one of the biggest sources of “military grade” aka ammunition with full metal jacket bullets. Then you end up with most criminal activity being committed with ammunition with bullets designed for hunting. These leave a larger wound channel and cause more damage.
I was once in one of the biggest gun shops in Western Pennsylvania buying something and ended up talking to a clerk about how the gangbangers in Pittsburgh wanted “full metal jacketed” ammo because it sounds so gangsta! Leave well enough alone and keep them thinking that way!
Gabby Giffords would be long dead if her assailant hadn’t used “military grade” ammunition!
Then you end up with most criminal activity being committed with ammunition with bullets designed for hunting. These leave a larger wound channel and cause more damage.
That’s a feature of the policy, not a bug.
And then they’ll complain about civilians (said with a condescending sneer) using ammunition ILLEGAL under the terms of the Geneva conventions.
Completely ignoring the facts that law enforcement and civil usage is deliberately excluded by the Geneva and Hague conventions.
And of course that’s a launch pad for yet another ban. This ammo is worse than a weapon of war uses!
Bites at the apple. It’s been their M.O. for a century.
More concocted backdoor Gun Control bought to you by the sicko democRat Party.
The US would be in dire danger without us plinkers. I, personally, have destroyed thousands of evil tin cans in my lifetime. My kids have destroyed thousands more. Left to their own devices, those rusty tin cans would probably have taken over the country by now.
i still see alot of korean cars on the road…
Are Chinese made cars being sold in the US?
They are in Australia and have special exemptions allowing the use of asbestos in brake linings (which has been prohibited since the 1980s).
Wow, it never ends.
Between COVID discharges, constant woke training, DEI figurehead appointments, falling recruitment numbers, inability to find anyone of service age that isn’t obese, out of shape or on psychotropics and the constant “will they/won’t they” with every nation on the planet I think a potential lack of ammo is pretty low on the list of demoralizing or readiness factors.
Only a fool or true zealot would sign up but that’s okay because we’ll just fill the ranks with all the more fit, more able, service age single man coming over the border.
Depends on what you want.
Personally, I think it’s more likely that the border jumpers get put into domestic LE (already happening, actually) and .mil is left to rot.
It’s a hatrick. Weaken the US in general, create a domestic police state and equip that domestic force with gear you redirect from .mil.
Most of the people running things these days are unimaginative idiots. They’re easy to manipulate because they can’t think a step ahead, nevermind three or four. Which means you don’t have to be truly smart to do this, you can just read the playbooks from the past century and execute them. Very few will see what you’re doing and fewer will be in any position to stop you.
Wasn’t that essentially what Obama wanted with a federalized police? (Funny how that works)
I don’t read minds or pretend to so I can’t really say what he wanted from that whole thing.
That said, the camel’s nose under the tent is, quite obviously, intentionally or unintentionally what he got.
Given the man’s intelligence, background and those he had a history of consorting with, were I a betting man, I’d wager that he did desire at least some part of the observable outcome.
I tend to assume it’s an odd mix of an actual plan that has been thought out, various individuals that have varying levels of competency acting on it’s behalf, and most critically a willingness to seize on any opportunity no matter how stupid (equity being a misprint of equality for example) to take more power. Create the chaos to save us from and all.
A great Tucker Carlson interview on the subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVwUQjsdPDI
Holy shit the left can’t meme.
The overall plan in this, and nearly every gun/ammo/accessory regulation, restriction or ban proposal is to make the US just like the rest of the world, “free”, 3rd World, and everything in-between. It would leave us all in the hands of a gaggle of Globalists, who know better how humans should act, live, and conduct their business and private lives than the people themselves. Nothing new, trace its beginnings back to the first chapters of recorded history.
Do we want to drive up the cost of all of the above just so that a very small number of murderers don’t have access?”
Murder is the excuse for this. It isn’t the reason. These people aren’t exactly anti-murder.
“It’s undoubtedly true that the number of people who know how to pick up and effectively use an AR-15 is a lot higher in the United States than in most other countries.”
Yet new recruits don’t even have the skill to throw a grenade. Yes, really:
“It’s taking three to four times as much time … just to qualify folks on the hand grenade course than we had designated so what is happening is it is taking away from other aspects of training. We are finding that there are a large number of trainees that come in that quite frankly just physically don’t have the capacity to throw a hand grenade 20 to 25 to 30 meters,” said Maj. Gen. Malcolm Frost.
Why is it that recruits used to be able to throw a grenade with little to no training, but now they can’t? It’s so bad, that they stopped trying to teach them. I wonder if they have that problem in China?
It should be easy to throw a grenade. Cycle to grenades with R1 then let fly with R2. There are 1.1 million people practicing this skill as we speak. For hours a day they practice.
Shire-man,
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Can you provide more context and/or detail?
Fortnite. Once little kids grow out of Minecraft they give their body and souls over to Fortnite.
As someone with kids, I can confirm the Minecraft to Fortnite tranzition haha.
Dude,
How much do today’s U.S. military grenades weigh?
I think they weigh about the same as a football. Maj. Gen. Malcolm Frost said it’s difficult to teach people to throw when they haven’t grown up throwing ball. Kids no longer grow up playing outside every chance they get.
every chance they get, kids no longer grow up playing outside.
Looks like the m67 hand grenade weighs 14 oz (400 g), a baseball is 5 oz (142 g). A football weighs 14 to 15 ounces (400 to 430 grams).
“Why is it that recruits used to be able to throw a grenade with little to no training, but now they can’t?”
Lack of recess and sports experience. No, I’m not joking. Where did you learn to throw a ball?
Grenades ain’t heavy. It’s not a strength issue, it’s a coordination issue. Go watch little kids play sports. They’re uncoordinated AF. They learn that coordination over time. Pretty quick, really.
But if they never go outside and get the opportunity to build that kinesthetic awareness then they never really develop it. This results in a lack of hand-eye coordination later in life. It can be learned but not as fast as it was when it’s introduced at a younger age.
“Kinesthesia is the awareness of the position and movement of the parts of the body using sensory organs, which are known as proprioceptors, in joints and muscles. Kinesthesia is a key component in muscle memory and hand-eye coordination.”
https://pressbooks.umn.edu/sensationandperception/chapter/kinesthesia-and-prorioception/
that explains why i feel dorky throwing otherhanded. i can do it, pretty well, but it feels weird.
It’s also why “grenade fails” videos (or actual experiences) all look nearly identical to children in their first year of Little League.
I mean, aside from the adults in camo, explosions, sandbags and stuff. The physical “error” in the throw is usually the same one kids make when first learning to throw a ball.
Eurowussies don’t do baseball they love them soccer (pansy/useless).
Only the goalie can throw the ball, and they use BOTH hands.
“… let’s take a look at the letter and then discuss why it’s dead wrong.”
While the letter may in fact be dead wrong, that doesn’t matter. All that matters is that it is “believable” enough in concert with similar feelings to get the masses onboard.
Our side would be wise to recognize that a very large percentage of our population elevates nebulous notions and feelings above accuracy and facts. In other words our side should start crafting nebulous notions and feelings in our favor.
The problem is that we have a society that has tried, at all costs, to feminize the human male. And look at what it has produced. A bunch of psychotic idiots who suffer from ADD, anxiety and so forth and need a “safe” space to go ride out their inability to control themselves. We should make military service in the US mandatory for all Citizens at the age of 18 for a term of 2 years. That would eliminate a huge number of social issues we suffer from as it would at least instill some discipline into these freaks we are producing today.
Too late by the time they are 18.
The US mil has no use for a useless mass of draftees (even more true today that in 1955/65).
Currently we have a (MIA) affirmative action quota baby running DOD anyhow. My theory is Austin’s “elective” surgery was a sex change. Tranny is the flavor of the decade in prog fedgov/DOD.
Or just ask our own Nero a couple simple questions:
Based on diction, is this letter dead wrong? If not, is this a matter of my own biased interpretation?
While I’m perhaps not as good at this as Nero, let’s take the sentence “The other problem with James’ argument is that the 5.56mm rounds sold to the pubic ends up making for a much more skilled civilian population.”
Is that problem with the argument?
Or, from the other side’s point of view is the sentence actually deadnuts correct (though perhaps with at least one grammatical issue) if we say “The other problem
with James’ argumentis that the 5.56mm rounds sold to the pubic ends up making for a much more skilled civilian population.”Trying to run the cost out of reach of the average person is their goal. The ideology behind limiting bullets was created by Bill Ruger. He was very shortsighted and only concerned about himself and his business when he created a gun control bill and sent it to his congressional rep to take to congress. Liberals figured out at that time that they didn’t have to attack the guns directly, they could go after the one thing the guns had to have….bullets. Lower capacity mags, higher cost ammo is a liberals wet dream. Ultimately they’ll try to tax bullets to the point of absurdity as they have the tobacco industry. Then they’ll start making bullet makers slap big ugly warning labels about lead. Liberals use the same playbook for every industry.
Golly haven’t used my 556 boo-lits in awhile. My favorite gunshop(Asgard in Crete,Illinois)told me I can buy a Ruger Mini 14 non tactical with no pistol grip & it’d be “legal” in ILL annoy. No verboten 30round mags. Whuts yer take John Boch???
It is the same in California and any other state that uses a “features” based ban, as long as you do not have magazines with a capacity in excess of the state’s limit, usually ten rounds.
“The other problem with James’ argument is that the 5.56mm rounds sold to the pubic ends up making for a much more skilled civilian population.”
James agrees, this is a problem. That’s why her proposal is a potential solution.
When a large percentage of the population is capable of face-shooting the fat slob, er sorry “police officer”, sent to oppress them, that’s a bit of an issue for the tyrant ordering that slob to do the oppressing.
You’d think the side of the aisle that loves to quote Solzhenitsyn as if they’d actually read his work would at least pretend to know what they’re own pet quotes mean.
[For the uninitiated I’m referring to this:]
“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?… The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If…if…We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation…. We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
“Blessed are those who, in the face of death, think only about the front sight.” Jeff Cooper.
That was one of the better articles I’ve read in awhile.
The NRA, according to its own history, Union veterans Col. William C. Church and Gen. George Wingate, dismayed by the lack of marksmanship shown by their troops, formed the National Rifle Association in 1871. The primary goal of the association was to “promote and encourage rifle shooting on a scientific basis,” according to a magazine editorial written by Church.
There are millions upon millions of urban potential draftees or volunteers who have never handled a rifle, and so the same argument applies: provide access to shooting sports so that the populace is at least minimally proficient in marksmanship. Eliminating the rifles and the ammunition is directly contrary to such a goal, particularly where the world is still so dangerous and potentially explosive.
“Unlike most of the world, the United States doesn’t try to take peoples’ right to keep and bear arms away.”
YHGTBFKM…
Relatively speaking.
Would you care to expound on that statement?
Civilian sales has nothing to do with Military readiness.
No civilian is buying 155mm, 800lb cluster bombs or mortars and the plants that make those are always ready to ramp up production when needed.
Our Taxes—, No .giv barows the money from China and other foreign countries.
The way .giv spends money taxpayers taxes are like filling an ocean using a cup.
Lake City does not need civilian sales.
Besides isn’t the US military transitioning to a different caliber besides 5.56×45?
When it does we can forget all about Lake City’s Military Grade emu.
200 million billion AR’s looking for some groceries.
Scary ain’t it.
5.56 is also a standard NATO cartridge. It will be around and comparatively cheap for a long time.
I am still waiting to see it fall below .45 a round. Before the recent increase, it could be found for .30. And now with the powder shortage, I expect that we may see the price double back up to near a buck a piece.
5.56 M4s will still be issued to second line and support units.
Can’t imagine too many new recruits shooting well with what amounts to a very hot loaded .270.
New recruits, like back in WW2 when they were using 06, 303. 8mm mauser ect.
But recruits back then were more familiar with guns.
When James said, “vote for me and I will put Donald Trump in prison”.
Enough voters supported that idea so they voted for her. So what did people expect when they voted for somebody, who said publicly she would do that???
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