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Sgt. Patrick Hayes writes:

We saw this coming. After the liberal media calmed down their race baiting, after the lies and false statements were exposed, all that was left were the facts. Officer Darren Wilson was in fear for his life after a felonious attack by Michael Brown. Unless they were pressured politically, the Grand Jury would return a No True Bill verdict. Those of us in law enforcement knew what would happen next . . .

There is a big difference between lawful assembly and protest and the lawless violence that engulfed Ferguson last night, into the morning and continuing today. The first is a constitutionally protected activity. The second is a criminal act. Last night, well into today, the town of Ferguson was in flames. Stores were looted. So-called protestors threw Molotov cocktails at the police. Shots were fired.

The destruction of Ferguson, Missouri had nothing to do with Michael Brown or Officer Wilson. It was simply a group of lawless thugs doing what they do best: stealing and destroying others’ property. The grand jury decision was nothing more than an excuse.The “protestors” were the same people who predate on their communities when they aren’t in flames.

This time, the police response was measured and proper. The cops learned how to deal with angry crowds from their terrible response last time. They used their armored vehicles as cover and blockade pieces. They used them to deny access to businesses and civic facilities to the rioters. The police responded in careful steps when they were attacked.

But this was not a protest. It was a criminal insurrection. Hundreds, if not thousands of looters massed. Like sharks circling wounded prey, they waited outside liquor and grocery stores, a beauty salon, a self-storage facility, Walgreens, Walmart, Taco Bell – anywhere and everywhere there were things to steal. As many as 100 cars descended on Toys R Us. When the first window broke, they attacked.

Hard-core criminals elements hid within the groups. Men with gas cans walked down city streets, setting business ablaze to make it “safer” for chaos to reign. Men with “assault rifles” fired shots at police; a University City officer was shot and wounded.  The police were overwhelmed. Entire parts of the city became no-go areas. Quite rightly, firefighters were confined to base.

Ferguson is now a smoldering ruin. Although order has been more-or-less restored, this morning the police are still escorting media trucks into the affected areas, unsure of whether or not emboldened bad guys will fire on uniformed officers and camera-toting journalists. As of 8:30 a.m. central, firefighters are still not responding due to the danger of gunfire.

Eventually, calm will descend. Even as the press reports on the aftermath of “violent protests,” shop owners and law-abiding residents will discover what a plague of two-legged locusts can do to a city’s heart and soul. And yet, some good will come of this . . .

Even before last night, Ferguson changed all of us in law enforcement. I now wear a body camera. It records facts to counter any false claims. More and more departments are issuing such cameras and updating their vehicle cameras. We have all talked about the response in Ferguson and how we can do it better. We’ve also talked about reconnecting with our citizens, especially in larger cities.

Just as we in law enforcement must learn to take greater responsibility for our actions and inactions, the people who looted and torched Ferguson should be held accountable for their crimes. The police didn’t rob from local businesses and set Ferguson ablaze. Officer Darren Wilson didn’t rob from local businesses and set Ferguson ablaze. The people who did have no place in civilized society.

In the end, the cops in Ferguson will have to deal with the criminals who destroyed their town. The citizens there need to take a hard look at themselves, their children and their community. And work with the police to rid themselves of those whose selfishness and love of mayhem burned their town to the ground.

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  1. So when is Harry Reid gonna call these protestors domestic Tourists(Terrorists)? Because it doesn’t take a genius figure out that the mostly UNarmed Ferguson protests were WAAAYYYY more violent than the ARMED protests at the bundy ranch. We didn’t burn shit down or shoot at police just sayin.

    • Harry Reid will never call these protestors domestic terrorists because they are not white, Christian, Constitutionalists, or veterans.

        • Don’t you get it? LEGAL gun owners are the real threat to a tyrannical government. That’s why they own guns. The guys with illegal guns are not really a problem, they are just interested in crime, and the commission thereof for profit. Illegal gun owners could care less about how bad the laws are, they are not going to follow them anyways. Besides, a illegal gun owner is not worried about getting caught with a gun rap. They are more concerned about the armed robbery, rape, and assault charges they have to face before worrying about where or no there was a gun involved.

        • In that case it should be “open season” on them….. legal gun owners don’t have anything to worry about, they aren’t brandishing guns and taking potshots.

      • They were there. You could hear them on the police radio frequencies with ID’s of “warfighter.”

      • If they’d have used the National Guard, they’d have been criticized for using military force to suppress civil rights. It might have saved some property, but politically, it did make more sense to keep the NG out and minimize police exposure.

        The town burned, but nobody can blame the police or NG at least.

        • Exactly this. The measured police and NG response was specifically the result of the complaints about their handling of the initial protests.

          This time, they waited. They let the rioters and looters confirm to everyone that they’re the hooligans we know they are and not the peaceful protesters before they moved in.

        • Yep. It’s sad that a dozen buildings were burned, countless others vandalized and looted, and God-only-knows how much other property was destroyed. If I owned one of those businesses, I’d collect the insurance money and not go back. Good way to drive jobs out of an area that seems to desperately need all it has. I’m sure all the people who woke up this morning and found that their places of employment had burned will be happy with that.

          But it’s not the fault of the police or the NG for not being there. From what I’ve been seeing and reading, people didn’t want them there. You can’t have it both ways.

          And if you don’t like your neighborhood being burned down, you don’t need NG to prevent that. My neighborhood was just fine last night… because none of us took it upon ourselves to set local businesses and police cars on fire. There were no police or NG present – we simply chose to live in peace without destroying everything in sight.

          To reiterate – if you don’t want your neighborhood burned, don’t set it on fire.

        • Where was the National Guard some of you ask? I ask, where were the 100 FBI Agents that reportedly were sent “to assist the Ferguson Police Department?” It appears everybody has forgotten about the FBI. I tell you the reason they were sent there. They were sent there to monitor the Police and make a case on anything they could. The FBI doesn’t involve itself in riots or civil disturbances. They sit behind desks and write reports that can never be found again, or they hide under them when the sh__t its the fan. The best thing the Police could do was to not have any personal contact with suspects, lest Holder & Obama’s henchmen from the FBI would have them up on Civil Rights charges.

      • The NG was activated ONLY to protect government buildings and infrastructure and were ordered NOT to engage in crowd control. There was a recent power outage due to sabotage of an electric sub station and the NG was tasked w/ preventing such occurrences.

      • It was a no win situation. What if the NG had advanced, what could they do? Start mowing down people? Can you imagine the outrage if 15 to 20 “peaceful protesters” had been killed last night? If you owned a business in Ferguson, would you have stood and fought in the face of what happened last night? The thugs where fearless because they knew nothing was going to happen to them. After you shot the first one, what are you going to do about the brother on the roof with a five gallon can of gasoline? You would need at least a squad to secure any of the businesses and be prepared to stack some bodies. It was going to look like a war zone one way or another.

        • Exactly. No win.

          The media are criticizing the governor for being incompetent and not mobilizing NG troops. If they’d showed up, all it would have done was given rioters targets to shoot at. Then the NG would have had to fire back. Then we’d have had a bloodbath and the governor would have been “guilty” for that.

          They’ve also criticized the prosecutor for the timing when he shared the grand jury findings. Personally, I seriously was praying that one mother of a winter storm would have hit the St. Louis area to drive protestors indoors. But the prosecutor couldn’t wait for a winter storm, and criminals are criminals no matter what time of day it is. They could have released findings at 6 AM – the rioters would have still been rioters that night. There’s nothing you can do to make a person who’d burn a beauty shop or a BBQ place to the ground be a good person, no time of day when you can get on their good side.

      • iIRC the Guard was deployed a week ago by Dem Gov Nixon, in a limited operational role to protect Federal and State property (securing the Highway Patrol local statiin, for example, to free up those officers to do more riot control w local pd.)

        IMHO its almost a lose/lose to use the Guard in any other way. Damned if you do (see complaints about military looking vehicles…) and damned if you don’t (see Ferguson Mayor whining today…).

        Almost until the $hit REALLY hits fan, like in LA 1992 riots when Crips and Bloods teamed up to keep the rival gang, LAPD, out of area for two weeks until a battalion of Marines, and 1000 Guardsmen were finally deployed.

        I’d be interested in hearing from anyone actually in a leadership posiyion in the Missouri NG, about current riot training and readiness, ROE and joint op MOU. One thing we know for sure, we aren’t going to get educated reporting from most US media on the ground, there. And certainly not while ops underway, if only for opsec reasons.

  2. I think you give most of the media way too much credit. Truth doesn’t matter to most media as illustrated by the run up to this inevitability. They fanned the flames, implying racism and injustice every step of the way. When they didn’t get Wilson’s head on a pike, the depressed faces were evident and the spin machine reflexively and immediately engaged to find any excuse or excuses to justify the rioting and looting and further the false narrative of police gleefully gunning down black teens because they’re black. CNN has intentionally left significant facts in the grand jury’s decision out of their reporting because they are invested in a narrative. In Wisconsin, lots of liberals behaved badly over the public union reforms of 2011, the majority of the media worked hard to cover up and ignore all the bad behavior. The media is an enemy of our civilized society since it’s all about an agenda for them. They can’t and won’t be shamed into changing.

    • It’s all about the ratings. You can’t expect to pay somebody to do a job while simultaneously expecting them to do things that would jeopardize that job.

        • The people only want to see news with a hard leftist/statist slant?

          Fox News’ ratings would seem to put the lie to that statement.

          The media force feeds people the stories that their leftist/statist cohorts in gov’t want people to be marinated in.

          That’s why they hate Fox so much. When a single voice isn’t towing the company line, it allows doubt to creep in. Maybe all those other guys aren’t telling me the truth with their identical down to the last buzzword coverage.

          THAT is why the left hates Fox so much. If not for them and the internet, they’d have a unified front and a stranglehold on all information dissemination, which would let them plausibly paint anyone who disagreed as some kind of wacko who was out of step with the entirety of society.

          With Fox and the internet kicking the MFM in the shins all the time, it’s hard to say that you’re a wacko if you don’t swallow whole what ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN/et al give you.

  3. what they should have done was to state in there speech last night that anyone caught starting a fire would be shot plain and simple

    • The politicians should have passed an emergency “trespassers will be shot” provision. At least give the citizens a fighting chance if they chose to accept it.

    • What they should have done was announced my suggestion for ending these riots:

      **if their is any destruction of property or theft the following will happen:
      1 insurance nor any other aid will cover it
      2. All taxes will be raised – sales, local
      3. All benefits like social security, welfare, food stamps will be suspended immediately
      4. anyone out of a job between the age of 18 to 64 that needs financial assistance will be required to render public service reconstructing everything that was damaged or destroyed as well as any other needed public improvements
      5. Any children under 18 needing food will be fed at the local schools or soup kitchens

      6. above conditions will remain in effect until every last dime is repaid to those who lost something and every last charred brick is replaced.

      if you either as a community riot or fail to prevent rioting, you will be punished as a community. They want ‘social justice’ they can have it. All the justice they want while they work off their JUST sentence.

  4. How “hard-core” can they really be? There are enough of them to tear apart every officer and piece of equipment on the street with their own bare hands yet they waste their time burning things and stealing TV’s.

    Just looks like more petty nonsense from a group of people who have IQ’s under 80 and no cause in particular.
    Mobs are too often a waste of human capital. They claim to have a singular enemy yet they attack everything but. Including themselves.

  5. And with the installation of more and better police cameras, the police forces need to get out ahead of the social media and idiots in the 24-hour news/opinion propaganda stations. Don’t hide the footage from police cameras behind the tortured, slow legal process of the DA’s office. If a thug is shot as a result of assaulting an officer (eg), put that footage out in the public domain ASAP. Cut the “narrative building” off quickly and ruthlessly.

    A remarkable example of how lies became “conventional wisdom” is the whole meme of “hands up, don’t shoot.”

    • DG,

      I couldn’t agree more. If I get involved in a racially / politically hot event, I’ll have as much of it on video as possible. I’ll make my own copies of the video, and even send it out on social media if I have to. That would be against company policy, but I frankly don’t care. Wilson might have saved his job if he could have immediately countered the MSM BS.

      My use of force is legitimate, and I want that out there before the Sharpton and Co machine get a chance to spin their bullsh!t.

      Here in LA, we use police escorts of the fire engines. They put out the fires, and we can return fire against the violent criminal element if required.

  6. I really wish this site would get away from bullshit political articles and stick to writing about guns.

      • Sorry to disagree but there is an agenda against Taurus on TFB. They gave pretty much an identical review of the Millenium G2 as TTAG. except it couldn’t be good because”Taurus”. The same idiot mindset about the new curve. And Gunnuts media might be worse. That’s why I read TTAG. So I don’t buy the no politics BS. And I mainly read and comment on TTAG for politics and entertainment. If I want a nuts and bolts fluff gun review I look at Gunblast(but I like the Quinns). BTW I’m not a fanboy of Taurus. I buy whatever works.

        • Taurus deserves every bit of that dude.

          TFB is right on the money. Anybody who defends taurus deserves to be treated the same way as somebody that defends tapco.

        • Sorry if you disagree, Shaun, but…
          ALL gun owned should consider what’s going on in Ferguson.

          This topic is relevant to my interests.

        • jdb, I think Shaun was being a bit sarcastic…not railing on RF but on the OP for whining about reading something he did not have to read….like RF made him do it.

          That’s how I took it, anyway.

      • + dont forget RF is doing a mitzvah here. I mean, concern trolls gotta eat, too.
        OFA aint gonna pay for your clicks if you spend all your time in the PuffHo’s and WAPO forums.

      • Shame on you, Robert. Time after time you post about out-of-control governments (and what are the police but the violent arm of state force), you post about police abuse of power, and of the necessity of arming yourself as a protection from authoritarians.

        Yet in every case in this instance, you’ve published GOP (statist) agitprop. The state invited a response by declaring–essentially–martial law in Ferguson before the lack-of-indictment ever came down. That sent a chilling message: We are going to oppress you, and we don’t care what you do about it. If you cannot see that the GOP are using your fears of racial rioting against you, to become complacent with right wing statists, then you are a fool.

        And then you get this statist bootlicker to write a piece fellating the power of authority and the danger of “thugs.” I’m sure the British would have called the sons of liberty “thugs” and “terrorists” and “criminals” too.

        Any libertarian with an iota of self-respect and honesty would continue to support the people of Ferguson, and their continued rights to protest authoritarians and arm themselves in defense.

        • A statist is a statist is a statist. The GOP are taking the anti-ferguson position in the media, the Democrats are making a show of opposing it, to appease their base, but when it comes time for “boots on the ground” statist oppression, all of their rhetoric disappears. This is the essential circus quality of our authoritarian government.

          “Race” is the key issue here that is turning many of you into hypocrites. If the state did this to “good white folk” (voters) then you would be outraged. If the state does this to poor blacks, or palestinians, then all your rhetoric about the right of self defense from a brutal, oppressive state just disappears.

          That makes you hypocrites. When this blog discusses politics, it might as well be an outreach arm of the GOP statist authority

        • j_t, try to keep up here, wouldja? We had a speech nanny meeting last week and agrred not to use the word “statist” as it was oppressing the masses. Neener neener and nyaa nyaa are still ok, so take your best shot.

        • t_taylor, you are absolutely correct.

          Furgeson reaped the seeds that it sowed. You treat people like animals long enough, in poverty, and oppress them with police forces adequate for occupying Iraq, dont be surprised if they initiate a uprising.

          Im personally sitting back and eating popcorn. My feelings wont get hurt a lick if violence escalates further.

    • It’s a legitimate topic on this site-it’s more than just tangentially related to guns: it involves various discussions routinely addressed on the site including the legal use of deadly force, appropriate firearm choice for specific tasks, interaction of armed citizens with police, and more. Besides, if you don’t like these types of articles you can just skip them, or find a web site more to your liking 

    • The neat thing RUSSEL about the articles on this site is that they give you a heads up as to what they are about.

      If the article isn’t interesting to you, don’t click on it.

      This way, you don’t waste your time and ours in making inane comments.

    • Neither are cops big on personal responsibility. They shoot puppies, harass blacks more than whites (why are black arrests for simple marijuana possession four times the white arrest rate when usage is the same), and especially coverup for their brother cops who do worse.

      We may not live in a hard police state like Stalin’s Russia or Hitler’s Germany, but we’re going in the wrong direction.

      • Which is exactly why this response to this case is so wrong exposes truer agendas.

        There are many cases/examples that would such an outraged response would fit so much better. That those go largely ignored by the agitation machinery exposes the lie that any of this about “justice” or “social justice” or “equality” or any other good sounding thing.

      • “(why are black arrests for simple marijuana possession four times the white arrest rate when usage is the same)”

        Because you are looking at the initial charge that’s used to hold someone they are building up a case against for something stronger and/or looking at what the poor oppressed black kid pled down to from what probably was a resisting arrest, distrurbing the peace, and a host of other charges for being a racist d-bag when the cop approached him.

    • Or the law enforcement, or white upper-middle class voters that vote for anti-gun, control freaks.

      At least be consistent. The people of furgeson have every reason to be pissed off.

  7. This is exactly what LBJ had in mind when he pushed the “Great Society” welfare state on the black community.
    The destruction of family and the elimination of fathers from the home was a necessary first step. All the problems that exist in the black community stem from this singular act.

    • And the pocket pistol wars continue. Everyone knows though that .9mm is the least powerful round you should carry daily.

  8. Well said, SGT. The Media got their race riot in full HD, split-screen with blow by blow commentary, so they’re happy today. The looters and thugs got an excuse to vandalize, loot and pillage, so their happy. The only people that lose are the good people. I hope the Police learned that unless you beat the media at their own game, they’ll create their own narrative and fill in the blanks with their own made up ‘facts’ that stir the pot and foment strife and conflict.

    That’s what they do – and they make tons of money doing it. Just like Sharpton. They’re all a bunch of Sharpton’s when you think about it. Race hustlers that profit only from division and conflict, not from peace and brotherhood with our fellow citizens, white/black, left or right – we’re all Americans. But that don’t sell like the wonderful split screen of chaos they got last night huh? I guess the rioters didn’t decide take the time to review the evidence that was finally released last night and come to their own educated decision about what happened huh?

    They all just KNEW what happened without even a precursory view of any of the evidence. What a sham. All played out in full living color for the consumers. While the honest business folk, peaceful protestors and law abiding citizenry watch their town go up in flames. Travesty, brought to you by the good people of the MSM (and their sponsors of course. Don’t forget to get your Viagra).

  9. It’s only gonna get better. Reports are saying the Rev. Al is on the way. What could possibly go wrong?

  10. It is also sad with so many examples of much more likely ‘bad shoots’ this one gets the attention.

    • This. A thousand times, this.

      As I was explaining to my children this morning, I believe this very fact exposes the lie that ANY of this crap is about Brown or Wilson, racist cops, police abuse, social injustice or anything like that at all.

      There are far too many examples of police abuse, systemic racism, etc that would make far more sympathetic cases. Someone earlier (in another post’s comments) mentioned the Ohio Walmart BB Gun incident as an example of a far better case to draw attention to, and on that one…pretty much nothing from the agitators and MSM.

      It’s pretty disgusting, really. It is readily apparent the level of manipulation going on here. The disgusting part is the number of people that can plainly SEE that manipulation and allow themselves to be manipulated anyway.

      Many others have said it; this is not a response to an injustice. This is an opportunity by thugs and criminals to get away with what they want to do. To the MSM and politicians, it’s also an opportunity…to continue the illusion that they ‘care’ and that they ‘are doing something,’ etc.

      Theater. Nothing but theater.

      And yet, real people are getting hurt. Real people are losing homes, hard earned businesses. Real people are losing, and the selfish, immoral agitators want that.

    • So much this.
      Last week a rookie NYC cop got nervous and shot a guy dead for simply being in a dark stairwell, then claimed it was an accidental discharge. Far as I know, still no disciplinary action or criminal charges against the officer.

      Media coverage: Nearly zero.

  11. From

    “One group walked toward the Tempe police station and courts building chanting expletives and anti-police sentiments. The other group calmly walked in a different direction.

    “Both perspectives are necessary to evoke change, said Monica Jones, who was marching to police headquarters. She compared the her group with Malcolm X’s followers and the other side with Martin Luther King Jr.’s.”

    Isn’t it funny how the “peaceful protestors” and the rioters seem to want the same thing and enjoy the heck out of each other’s company at parties? It’s almost like they’re on the same team or something.

  12. Every time I see stuff like this in the media, I think back and thank our fore-fathers for the stupidity that basically brought (then bred) this problem to our shores. Good job, your future generations “thank” you.

    • Exactly. The Spanish, Dutch, British, all of Europe brought white people to this previously unspoiled land, and then they bred like rabbits. Protestants! Puritans none the less! Even the filthy Irish. So sad.
      That was your point, right? JWT

      • Yeah, that’s it…you nailed it. Good one! I for one have certainly learned to be leery ’bout them Protestants when I have to walk down the street in Oakland. That’s for sure. (face palm)

  13. If the Grand Jury would have indicted Wilson, why am I almost positive that the same rioting would have broken out? Why do the morons in LA or Boston or almost any other big American city riot WHEN THEIR TEAM WINS? Sheer stupidity, greed and lawlessness. I agree, Police and or the NG should have shot anyone setting fires or looting on site. Perhaps a few more bodies would have served as a warning to the masses that anarchy is not acceptable?

    Where were the “Korean Grocers” in Ferguson? Black business owners got to watch their customers and opportunists from out of the area destroy their livelihood. I just can’t comprehend it.

    • Maybe the black shopkeepers there figure it’s not worth defending their property and incurring the wrath of gangs, when they can just let it burn and wait for their federal disaster relief payday.

      • Pretty sure that was all worked out in advance, by Rev Al, on his second visit, and confirmed by the Community Organizer in Chief in the off-the_official_calendar meeting with protest leaders in the Oval Office last week.
        “Stay the course…”

  14. Patrick:

    Body and dash cameras will help clear your name in an incident but it wouldn’t change community reaction. Michael Brown’s supporters don’t care what the facts are and they might even understand the facts. The facts are irrelevant because the way they see things is that Michael Brown had perfect right to rough up the little Asain guy and steal his cheap cigars. He also had a right to attack officer Wilson because the streets belong to him and his gangbanger friends and police have no business interfering with that. There are those who post here who agree with that view.

  15. The think about Ferguson that gets lost is that the situation in the greater Saint Louis area is so fucked up that even if the police were perfect, people would riot. It is unconscionable, the tiny cities there are running a racket, where everyone is guilty, and owes them money. And that is the law. Your friend sleeps on your couch? Did you think to run down to city hall and add him to your residency permit (which is probably only open m-f, 8-4)? No? $25 dollars please. And so on. It’s not about one guy getting shot by the cops, it’s about the boot of the state being very hard on these peoples necks, even if it were administered by saints, it would be wrong.

    • When “certified” poor people can earn $60k in combined benefits per year local governments have to figure out inventive ways to get their share, don’t ‘ya know. If you know how to hold your mouth right (old southern expression), you can easily make more total income than a beginning teacher without having to do a lick of work.
      What a deal.

  16. “The citizens there need to take a hard look at themselves, their children and their community.”

    They do need to. They should.

    And I’d be willing to bet most of them will not. It’s too easy in today’s world to blame someone else for your own problems … and too easy to find someone willing to “validate” your disavowal of responsibility.

  17. It seems like a dozen buildings were burned in Ferguson. Given all the hoopla and media coverage, I’d say that the protesters are underperforming. C’mon, guys. You have communists, CAIR, the New Black Pussy Party and assorted agitators flying in from all over the country and that’s the best that you can do? What a bunch of wimps.

    What the protesters need to do is to turn Ferguson into a burned-out wasteland, because that will make everything better.

  18. Rebels without a clue. It’s a simple pivot from vandalizing and looting, to raping and pillaging, and this thing isn’t over yet. If the P.D. and MONG won’t maintain the security of a free state, then it’s up to the People to defend themselves and their property.

    Thank God for the right to keep and bear arms. Thank the Framers for enshrining it in the Constitution. Thank Stoner for, well, you know.

    Not so irrelevant and anachronistic now, eh, Madame Senator?

  19. SGT. Patrick Hayes says we “saw this coming” but what he does not tell you is he pretty much knew as a fact the Grand Jury would not indict Officer Daren Wilson. This is the reason why, In a 1989 decision, the Supreme Court shaped the national standard regarding the use of force by officers when they reasonably fear imminent physical harm. The use of force must be evaluated through the “perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene” rather than being judged after the fact, meaning officers are often given the benefit of the doubt by prosecutors and grand jurors are reluctant to second-guess their decisions.

    So long as officer have a wide latitude with “their discretion” when they feel they are in imminent danger / or threat the citizen and man’s best friend will always be on the losing end of any encounter with the police.

    • Objective Reasonableness is not a bad thing as you are trying to paint it. It applies to all of us in any self defense shooting.

      Are you really trying to suggest that 20/20 hindsight in deciding matters of self defense would a good thing?

      • Objective Reasonableness is exactly what the police and prosecutor uses when they investigate any self-defense shooting by a citizen the same standard is not used for the police.

        What I was trying to say is, with the 1989 ruling by the Supreme Court the Police have explicitly wide latitude to decide if they are in imminent danger not you and your likely hood of getting shot. Like the old joke: when you go on a date you hope you are going to get laid, the woman already know whether you are or not. When you have an encounter with the police they decide whether they are in imminent danger you only hope you are not.

  20. I watched video of a man casually looting the MetroPCS store in Ferguson. I listened to police frequency calls via streaming audio, and heard about the fires at McDonalds, Walgreens, and the store where Mike Brown stole the Swisher Sweets. Then they reported looting at Toys ‘R Us.

    I am totally at a loss as to how this is supposed to “get justice” for Mike Brown. I heard audio this morning of Mike Brown’s mother, stirring up violence with people who screamed about the town, “burn this bitch DOWN,” followed by “No Justice, No Peace!”

    The only conclusion I can arrive at is that their definition of “justice” does not match the actual meaning of the word. THEY think “justice” is a synonym for “revenge”. While there is such a thing as “retributive justice”, burning down the town’s McDonalds — where many of their CHILDREN probably work — because a cop shot a young black adult — isn’t any sort of justice. It’s just violent thuggery.

  21. I’m not sure a body camera would have stopped the race-baiters here.

    But yeah, at this point I think anyone who lives there- not just cops- might want to invest…

  22. If body cameras show us both the good and the bad that would be awesome. If they are only “working” when it helps to exhonerate a cop then that’s not helping. Some departments have put rules in place to make sure they are always recording, including audits and randomly inspecting cars to make sure the antennas are in place. Others use them as just another tool to reinforce that thin blue line.

  23. And the ‘witnesses’ who cluelessly perjured themselves in grand jury testimony (as proved by the forensic evidence) should be prosecuted with a whole lotta public noise.

    But they won’t.

    Somebody with a high public profile should annoyingly and persistently ask, “WHY NOT?”

  24. My 2 cents

    1.) Protesting against a social injustice by looting and burning your neighborhoods small businesses which are owned by your fellow neighbor is a bit…shallow minded… to say the least. It doesn’t make any sense, but dont ask a mob to be rational. By the time they are burning s–t, it is way too late for an amicable solution.

    2.) Despite acts of violence being deemed unacceptable by many, I disagree actually. Given the treatment of the black community in the hands of militarized law enforcement at the hands of pro-war on drugs judges and a skewed, racist justice system, im surprised they haven’t revolted sooner. This is a canary in the coal mine, boys and girls. The next riots wont be exclusively black-populated at all; they will be comprised of the army of poor fvcked over by the failure of neoliberal economic policy, globalism, control freak/authoritarian politicians that aren’t doing their jobs, and increasingly tyrannical law enforcement agencies. This encompasses over a 100 million americans.

    3.) The MSM and prominent race baiters, not to mention know-nothing, fvckwits that should STFU about such complex and controversial things (yes, im talking about the POTUS), are not helping, and most certainly in my mind, some are complicit in the escalation of such things. the horse is already out of the barn unfortunately.

    4.) In defense of the community AND the people rioting (yes, in defense of), Furgeson PD’s handling of the situation was atrocious. Stories didnt match up, information was withheld or whitewashed, and Furgeson PD continued to act with impunity to any and all accountability towards heavy handedness. Ever hear about Mya Aaten-White? Kajieme Powell? Probably not, because everybody is so focused on out those “damned poor people are misbehaving!”

    5.) Furgeson’s elected officials. Need I say more? If the people of Furgeson had any lick of sense among them, those idiots would have been recalled and sent fvcking packing a long time ago. Same for the Chief of Police.

    So, meh, Im going to sit back and pass the popcorn. This is going to be interesting. “…you called down the thunder, well now you’ve got it! You see that?” Applies to this perfectly.

  25. Yes the ‘protestors’ who are looting and destroying property most certainly are criminals. Justice was served in the Darren Wilson case. However, do not forget that there are legitimate protestors with legitimate concerns. The entire surrounding area has been rife with police misconduct and corruption and the Michael Brown case, depite the fact that the shooting was justified, simply boiled it over for a lot of people. This has been in the works for a long, long time and it’s now coming to a head. There is a very serious problem with police across the country but there is an especially serious problem with the dozens of police forces that are in the St Louis area. If you are denying this simple and obvious fact then you are no better than the people who were irrationally denying the possibility that Wilson was justified and calling for his death.


    7/18- Jimmie Norman, white male murdered by black male. No national news.
    7/18- Terry Taylor, white male murdered by black male. No national news.
    7/17- Cindy Raygoza, white female murdered by black male. No national news.
    7/11- Luis Aguilar, 91 year old hispanic male murdered by black male. No national news.
    7/10- Brittany Simpson, white female murdered by black male. No national news.
    7/6- Sarah Goode, white female murdered by black male. No national news.
    7/6- Jeffrey Westerfield, white male murdered by black male. No national news.
    7/5- Perry Renn, white male murdered by black male. No national news.
    7/3- Laurey Kennedy, white female still in coma from beating by black male. No national news
    7/3 Eric Mollet, white male murdered by black male. No national news.
    7/2 Rupert Anderson, white male murdered by black male. No national news.
    7/2 Jennifer Kingeter, white female murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/30 Jim Brennan, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/29 Paul Shephard, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/27 Shirley Barone, white female, murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/27 Penelope Spencer, white female, murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/27 Inga Evans, white female, murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/26 Jake Rameau, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/25 Gina Burger, white female, murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/24 Nathan Dasher, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/22 Jonathan Price, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/20 John Whitmore, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/18 John Yingling,white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/17 Allyn Reeves, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/15 Michael Beaver, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/11 Angela Cook, white female, murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/11 Nathan Hall, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/7 Harry Briggs, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/5 Laura Bachman, white female, murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/2 Robert Mohler, white male, murdered by black male. No national news.
    6/1 William Headley, white male, murdered by black male. No national news
    Just saying!! All this and still no rioting

    • So which one of those involved a black cop on a predominately black police force in a predominately white neighborhood?

      “Just sayin’.”

      • Umm, clearly you didnt bother to research a single one of those names. They are, at least the 20+ i looked up, black criminals killing people.

        Is it your contention that an interracial murder is only significant if the police force isnt “racially representative” of the community?

        Please explain how what color a cop is makes a difference at all in any way… unless of course you are a racist and are assuming that everyone is just as racist as you.

        “just saying”

        • Zoooom, right over your head. One of the grievances aired by some people of the many different people involved refer to the killing of a black man by a white officer of a police department with only two (or thereabouts) black men employed in a predominately black community. Now, i know that living in a white suburbia tends to give some of us blinders, but when you employ context, such as historical racism, historical abuse by police, how those in poverty tend to view those in power, and many other variables, you tend to get a clearer picture.

          Now, I know that the above exercise might be a bit hard for some, but I’m sure you can manage it if you try.

          • And ZOOM right over YOUR head.

            Helps if you read my WHOLE post..

            For the second time:

            Please explain how what color a cop is makes a difference at all in any way… unless of course you are a racist and are assuming that everyone is just as racist as you.

        • and nobody ever said that the list had anything to do with the color of any cops just a white person killed by a black person and no media attention

      • these where white people that were killed by black people nobody mention whether they were police and not 1 of these murders made headlines but let a white kill a black its all over the news even if that white person was actually hispanic

        • Better yet where were the VERY deserved and massive lynch mob riots over the torture and murder of Christopher Newsom and Channon Christian.

  27. “The “protestors” were the same people who predate on their communities when they aren’t in flames.”

    I think you mean “prey”. To predate (pronounced pre- date) something is to exist before it. A predator preys, an old man predates younger men.

  28. “We have all talked about the response in Ferguson and how we can do it better. We’ve also talked about reconnecting with our citizens, especially in larger cities.”

    Nice but waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too late…..and
    I’m a white guy in a middle class neighborhood. I have had my white college educated middle class peers warn me to NEVER call a cop….not ever.
    Yes this topic has everything to do with guns and gun ownership. You are on your own….lock ‘n load.

    • Depends on where you live. In my state and city, quite a few homeowners and business owners have shot home invaders and armed robbers. The police investigate, get a statement from the defender without hauling him away in handcuffs, and the county attorney declares the shooting justified and declines to press charges. Neither do defenders get sued by the criminals or their families. Lawyers know that the jury won’t be sympathetic to the thugs.

  29. Where is the lynch mob and media outrage at the rather light sentences thus far for torture and murder of Christopher Newsom, Channon Christian!!!!

  30. “Men with “assault rifles” fired shots at police; ”

    Shoot them down…no rubber bullets, and nothing less than headshots.

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