We’ve posted this advice many times before: after a defensive gun use (DGU) don’t say anything to the police. OK, you can say “My life was in danger” and “I will be happy to provide a statement after I speak with my lawyer. I want to speak to my lawyer.” And that’s it. We usually come at this topic from the police entrapment point-of-view. In other words, the post-DGU po-po will pretend to be your friends to elicit information, ostensibly to help understand your righteous shoot. But it’s entirely possible – indeed probable – that they’re gathering information to use against you in a court of law. You must assume so. And here’s another way of looking at it: everything you know about your DGU is wrong. And we know that because the cops know it, too, now . . .
In an email blast, the Force Science Institute revealed the memory-related results of an experimental simulation of an Officer Involved Shooting (OIS).
The unique memory component of the traffic stop study involved 24 of the participating officers, sergeants, and detectives–all randomly selected males, ranging in age from 27 to 54, with up to 31 years on the job.
Promptly after they had been “intensely stressed” by being fired on [with Simunitions], each was given a sheet of paper with a diagram of the shooting scene, including the positioning of their patrol car and the suspect vehicle.
During the scenario, most had fled to the rear of the gunman’s car in an attempt to escape. Based on their memory of what had just occurred, they were instructed to draw “as accurately as possible” their path of travel from the instant the assailant drew his weapon until they heard the whistle that ended the scenario. They were allowed “as much time as necessary” to complete the drawing.
Later, the research team made meticulous, frame-by-frame computerized analyses, comparing the officers’ drawings with digital video recordings of their actual flight paths from danger.
And the survey said! . . .
1. the officers tended to recall and draw a much tighter curve of travel around the rear of the offender’s vehicle than they actually made as they ran to their eventual stopping point, and
2. they thought they ran a significantly longer distance than they actually did.
The fact that memory errors occurred was not surprising to the researchers, based on well-documented studies of brain function under stress. “In a life-or-death confrontation,” Lewinski explains, “the brain automatically filters out what it believes to be irrelevant in its laser focus on what is most important–survival. Later, exact details that were subconsciously judged to be extraneous are likely to be impossible to recall with precise accuracy, because they were not imprinted in a person’s working memory.”
That’s one theory. There are others. But the main point remains the same: the memory of your DGU may not match up with the emperical evidence. Prosecutors can use that discrepancy to paint you as a liar. This happens to cops (who are immune from civil penalties) and it could happen to you (who may not be).
There are studies that show that memory of a stressful event improves after a night’s sleep. Regardless, don’t say anything to the police after a DGU, no matter how good their intentions or your own. Even a small mistake in your recollection of events can cost you your freedom. That is all.
Maybe that haven’t noticed, but guns are already everywhere – especially in the places they mentioned in the video. Actually, psychos enjoy prime time video coverage for bringing weapons to those exact locations and shooting hoards of people. Their proposed solution? Keep it illegal to carry in those locations. I figured it was obvious those means have already been proven ineffective. Psychos looking to broadcast their suffering globally for a earth-wide sympathy prayer look for places they can do the most damage. These places where firearms are banned, people are densely packed, and mostly importantly – defenseless for the onslaught, are perfect for these psycho’s pursuit.
“Officer safety?”
Once you have the people step out of the car, what threat is the gun in the glove box?
I realize a great number of po-po side arms seem to go off by themselves, but for citizens, not so much. It must be the para-military training that makes the officer’s guns so aggressive. That would be the same training that casts people encountered by law enforcement as potentially murderous threats to be controlled, vs. by and large the people being served and protected. Or something.
No it’s not enough, and the assertion that no university presidents want guns on campus is only useful to demonstrate the sorry (leftist) state higher education is in. Even in Idaho.
As always NEVER talk to a cop. EVER. Period. SHUT YOUR PIE HOLE! Answer NO questions. Learn how to read the Miranda rights carefully.
put one in layaway at a gun shop in Sierra vista, AZ and they tried to swap it out on me by forging the paperwork once they realized it was a German made one. The whole shop appeared to be in on it. It was a beauty and the action like silk and the balance was incredible.
I don’t think you should completely STFU; Massad Ayoob says there are 5 things after a DGU:
1. Call 911
2. Officer this person attacked me, I will sign the complaint,
3. Officer here is the evidence (knife, gun, ball bat, whatever).
4. Officer these are the witnesses.
5. Officer you will have my full cooperation in 24 hrs after I see my attorney.
Beyond that, you can SFTU till lawyer (#5). If you don’t point this out when the scene is “warm”, witnesses may disappear, evidence may be lost, cops will steer their investigation in the wrong direction. You need to set the scene initially.
Mas’ video is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCZXZMYyRl4
If you remember, Zimmerman was very cooperative and walked the police through the scene immediately after the shooting (next day). It turned out to help him in that case, as the cops actually had a pretty clear idea how things played out (contrary to what MSNBC thinks). And the “loud music” guy screwed up on #1, which is certainly hurting his position.
I think Mas’ list is a good middle ground between not being an ass to the cops, and yet not saying too much, and preserving potentially exonerating evidence.
It helped him with the cops, didn’t mean crap during his trial as he wasn’t allowed to present that as evidence (that’s hearsay, don’t you know!). His running his mouth hurt him when the prosecution caught him in a lie.
Ayoob’s a nice guy, an expert in self-defense. A lawyer in your area is an expert on the laws of your particular jurisdiction. Go sit down with a lawyer, most of them will do an initial consultation for free and get their advice and put their number in your phone. You don’t necessarily need to have them on retainer– that’s expensive. But you can call them and if they aren’t available they will put you in touch with someone who is.
Sorry–but this is bad advice, especially trying to discuss what happened with the cops. As the article said, the scientific evidence shows that your brain is faulty (especially after stress) and thus your version of the story–even minutes after it happened–will probably not line up entirely with the evidence and with what other witnesses claim to have seen. And that can be used to paint you as a liar.
If you are going to be a big proponent of the 2nd Amendment, you had better be a big proponent of the 5th as well.
Absolutely, you gloss over after the event and need time to recall what had happened. The reason is, immediately after a violent encounter your whole body is in fight or flight mode, blood drawn from the extremities to your core and a kind of glossing over of general perceptions. How long it takes to recover from this is an individual experience, 24 hours, 72 hours, and is somewhat dependent on the severity of the event. Your comment directly after a stressful event might completely contradict your comment given 72 hours to decompress. Think PTSD and in the case of LEOs, cumulative PTSD.
“Piers Morgan Changed Lives – For the Better”
He most certainty did. He showed us exactly all of the bogus arguments that made up the anti-gun cadre’s arsenal. It was really easy after that.
Another variation of the 1949 Kalashnikov design. Oh Wow! I think I’ll trot right out and buy one.
Not!
Charlie
This cannot be posted enough.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
More from Mas: for what it’s worth, he thinks talking to the police helped Zimmerman as well:
http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2013/08/22/zimmerman-verdict-part-15-talk-at-the-scene-talk-on-the-stand/
What you say may not be directly applicable in the trial, but it sets the scene, gives the cops direction, preserves evidence and witnesses.
What does a police union lawyer tell a cop immediately after a shoot? “STFU.”
You were in fear for your life. He attacked you. You want a lawyer.
Keep it simple.
Facebook group: Ak Operators Union, Local 47-74 displays this kinda gun pron daily. I have even ordered some hardware they highlighted.
So people want to believe that random paramilitary units sprang up everywhere at once, neglecting the fact that Russia (read USSR) has done exactly this shit in the past? Hello, Afghanistan?! And, wait for it… Nazi Germany did it before!
This tinfoil hat bridage crap is beyond bizarre. I’m sure all these guys’ wives are resupplying them with food, water, and ammo, too. lol
Actually, Crimea has had a massive paramilitary independence movement for almost two decades.
These are not Ukrainian paramilitary forces. Not only are they wearing newly issued ratnik uniforms, but the Russian Federation, is not going to be handing out the weapons that their front line troops are armed with especially if they have eotech sights on them.. I wouldn’t be suprised that the first Russian boots on the ground weren’t spetsnaz securing the airport.
PW,
The reality is the Russian army is a joke that can barely function. Sending in Spetsnaz like this gives the idiots of the world the idea that Russia is only interested in giving the Ukrainians the ability to map their own future. Rolling in barely functional divisions would shatter the illusion of the powerful Russian army.
Not that I disagree with him, but his delivery reminds me of a talk radio “personality.”
I like what this guy says. A strong, articulate voice and content that is exactly correct. Yeah, “in other news the sky is blue” is a valid comment to us, the Choir, but it never ceases to amaze me how many people utterly fail to get that civilian disarmament is about denying the fundamental Right to protect one’s Life and the Lives of other innocents in the most effective way currently available. It is a Right and, therefore, a choice that should always and forever be available to every person.
I would assume that the Walthers got there due to “Betrieb schnell und wütend.”
Is this the same group that made the same claims against H&K a couple of years ago?
Maybe it was Nicholas Cage, he was a pretty good arms smuggler? Oh wait.
(Sarc)
“And while the state won’t immediately prosecute those who missed the deadline, it isn’t ignoring that information, either.”
Politicians are very quick to switch their stances on any subject when their jobs are in danger. I wonder how fast they will switch up their commitment to prosecution once their lives are on the line?
“The rifle and magazine declarations will be included in information given to police responding to a certain address. “This would be a factor in deciding how to respond to different situations,” Lawlor says.”
So, in other words…a SWAT team will respond to a house fire at those addresses instead of the fire department.
So, it looks like another brand of HK416, not an AR-15 (though you could possibly argue that the HK416 IS an AR-15). That was my first thought on seeing the picture. The Stock, grip, and some of the other furniture look identical to the rifle. Then I saw that it uses a piston rather than DI. I think the brand and the barrel shroud is the only difference. Regardless, I’m happy about that. To my knowledge, HK has halted production indefinitely of the civilian version of their rifle, so I’m glad someone else has taken up the slack.
Have seen this video before, that being said it was worth watching again.
I’ve long thought that if confronted with a choice between quietly handing over my arms like a slave or being murdered in my own home by brown shirts…..I’m looking for a third option.
Bla bla bla, states rights, bla bla bla. Repeal the 17th, then talk about state rights.
This makes sense because all MAIG and MDA really do is sit on Facebook or Twitter all day long. Whenever they try to rally, lobby, or get someone elected they fail miserably. This way they can focus on the things they actually know something about, spending time on Facebook and Twitter that is.
Zuckerberg is moving into a house just up the street from me. Well as soon as he finishes a massive rebuilding of it. Perhaps I will stick a “gun-free zone” sign on it some dark night.
Funniest thing is, this won’t affect the firearms industry, as I doubt the sales were all that common. More likely individuals selling their firearms to others. It’s more likely that it’s going to get a bunch of people who were selling drugs on their radar instead.