Disclaimer: This feature Monday morning quarterbacks a defensive gun use (DGU). The advice offered here is presented with the full understanding that the fog of war is as thick as New Mexico Junior College student Annastasia [sic] Wood (who believes that gun-free zones are magically gun-free). As always, it’s the result that counts. But when it comes to protecting life and property with a firearm, there are good ideas (with a high likelihood of a positive outcome) and there are bad ideas (with a low probability of a successful conclusion). In other words, YMMV. So, “the incident happened in the 8000 block of E. South Riverway Avenue in Spokane Valley, Washington . . .
The homeowners told police they’d been burglarized several times in the last few days so they were prepared.
Investigators said when the homeowner realized someone was in his garage he emptied a can of bear spray inside. The suspects inside the garage broke out a window to get out.
A 17-year-old, armed with a machete, was confronted and ordered to drop the machete. Police said when he advanced the homeowner fired his shotgun as a warning. The teen swiftly dropped the machete and a backpack he was carrying and laid down on the ground.
When police arrived the suspect was in the driveway, his hands zip-tied.
Ta-da! So what’s wrong with this picture . . .
1. The homeowners imprisoned, assaulted the perps
While we can’t/don’t trust news reports, it seems pretty clear that the homeowner made it impossible for the bad guys to leave his garage. And then doused them with bear spray. Clever, perhaps. Effective, sure. Legally dubious? Definitely. Strategically unsound? Absolutely.
Once again, the only gunfight (a fight with a gun) that you’re guaranteed to win is the gunfight you don’t have. Why not get as good a description of the bad guys as possible and let them go? Is their capture – by you – worth dying for? If they overwhelm you and there are loved ones in the house, well, that wouldn’t be good. Especially if the perps were severely pissed off about being bear sprayed.
2. The homeowner fired a “warning shot”
From a legal standpoint, warning shots are a Catch-22. You can only aim and/or fire a gun at another human being if you or other innocent life are in imminent danger of death or grievous bodily harm – and imminence is imminent. In other words, you are in the process of being assaulted. If you didn’t shoot directly at the perp, were you really being attacked? If you were, why didn’t you shoot at the attacker(s)?
That said, no jury in the world is going to punish you for firing a warning shot against a machete-wielding burglar with a rap sheet. But it’s something to think about. In fact, I’m sure your “warning shot” was actually a “missed shot.” You might also want to consider the simple fact that you’re responsible for every bullet or pellet you fire. If your “missed shot” hits an innocent party, even if you were defending yourself against an attack, you’re f*cked. Legally speaking.
Strategically, why wouldn’t you shoot the guy advancing with a machete? In the aftermath of a warning shot, while the shotgun’s shock and awe has clouded your judgement, slowing your reaction times, Mr. Machete could easily get a second wind, close the distance between you and him, and use his edged weapon to pierce your internal organs and/or slice you to ribbons. No thanks.
3. The homeowner zip-tied the perp
The bad guy follows your instructions, drops his machete and prones himself on the pavement. Awesome! Now you’re going to give him some verbal commands, approach him unarmed (‘though our homeowner probably had someone “covering” the bad guy), put your hands on a criminal (who knows he’s headed for jail) and tie him up? With his friends unaccounted for, perhaps lingering in the background? Better you than me boyo.
In that situation, with the police on their way, best cover the bad guy with your firearm and tell him what might occur should he decide to move. Kick his weapon away, if it is safe to do so. But then you have to worry about what you look like to arriving police, and what they might do. Let the bad guy go? Well, it is an option.
1. The homeowner did not imprison the perp. In most states you are allowed to make a citizens arrest if you witness a felony in progress. Last Time I checked 1st Degree Burglary is definitely a felony. Most of the time they are treated like an arrest by a peace officer with statutory authority however he could be charged with excessive use of force during the arrest.
Regarding the bearspray – there is no law against bear spraying the inside of your unoccupied garage for rodents, animals, etc. How was the homeowner supposed to know there was some “innocent angel” “mistakenly” in there in the dead of night. If the scumbag tries to do anything, he would have to admit he was in the garage and as such provide proof of his guilt of 1st Degree Burglary.
2. Probably not the smartest idea to admit to firing a “warning shot”. It was a “missed shot” – don’t back yourself into a corner admitting you fired with the intention of missing.
I am very proud of this kid, it took guts to say what he did. And it only took that useless dickhead “commander in chief” of ours a week to come out and spew completely contrived words about this tragedy. He didn’t mean a single word of it.
He might very well destroyed his career, but you know what? Being able to look yourself in the mirror and be proud of what you see is a hell of a lot more important than a set of railroad tracks.
Is 20 seconds too short to scribble “MACHETE FREE ZONE” on the reverse side to show Mr. Universe when he breaks down the door?
Take notes, Connecticut!
If LtCol Bateman’s vile spewings haven’t ended his career, this Lt should have nothing to worry about… and should certainly use it as a defense if it does.
The outcome Robert envisions here could just as well have been accomplished by having sold off one’s firearms, disavowing their ownership altogether, and cowering in a closet with the 911 operator on the phone. No thanks.
If you’re not mentally and physically prepared to defend yourself at least the fullest extent allowed by law, then don’t even bother. You’re probably more apt to get yourself or your loved ones killed or injured with half-hearted half measures in the heat of the moment, then by committing early and stoutly to a policy of victimhood and rescue by the authorities.
Do, or do not, there is no pussyfoot. Or something like that.
Once the bear spray was deployed and the perp came out of the building he should’ve received 2 to the chest and one to the head. With the perps weapon still in hand would’ve been a clear cut self defense, PERIOD!!!
Is this an appropriate time to say “Instead of 2 to the chest and 1 to the head, I was taught ‘a lot’ to the ‘everything’?”
If you’re shooting a guy with a shotgun (presumably loaded with buckshot), even 2 to the chest, 1 to the head is kinda overkill. One to the chest will most likely do it (look up the one shot stop ratio of shotgun shoots). Two to the chest will DEFINITELY do it.
Hardly…
Bad shoot.
Impossible to tell based on the lack of facts and evidence.
Wow. Just all kinds of ugly.
Arsenal has really got a good racket going. They buy Russian saiga sporting rifles in bulk for probably as low as 150-250 a piece and then convert and mod them for another few hundred and sell them for 1,000 -3,000.
While they produce great ak’s from russian stock one can just buy a saiga sporter and convert it and customize it to one’s exact liking for half the price as a Arsenal. Although my last saiga convert cost me near 1,500(500 saiga rifle, 800 in carolinashooterssupply parts and another 100 for some convert help from a gsmith) but my first two saiga converts were under 800. If I couldn’t do most of the work myself and didn’t have access to aftermarket parts I’d buy Arsenal or Poly ak’s as there are no better when compared to the garbage that is out there, but a saiga converted by yourself is the best ak one can get.
As for folding stocks moving(underfolders suck) all but one of my saiga converts have side folders and they are rock solid. Even the wire stock the amd65s are pretty good but nowadays one can build a solid ak with a tight side folder. Being ak’s are more short-mid range battle rifles I think a folding stock is a must on one. You can stick on all kinds of stocks on ak’s, endless forearm and muzzle options as well. No idea why more don’t do saiga converts.
I can think of maybe one or two that are too violent for me, but that’s an individual choice everyone makes for themselves. If the story is worth it, I may keep playing through it for the story, same as with movies.
Your dept integrity is only as good as the least trustworthy officer on it.
230 miles south we had a dgu/home invasion the prosecutor let go. However a neighboring prosecutor was yelling that he’d of nailed that home owner to the wall! It all depends on the a**#****s in charge. I hope this guy ‘stands his ground’ legally speaking.
The reviewer has overlooked a couple important facts. Firstly, the 516 has an ambi mag release. This is important for a hammer gun who is intended to serve as a primary blaster.
Mine did not come with ambi selector nor the hard case. Hmmmm.
Secondly, other than poor or damaged mags, nearly all stoppages in the Ar15 are due to failure to extract or failure to eject. Interestingly as these are both reliant upon very small thin springs found inside the bolt. This is also where we are dumping hot carbon laden gas to operate the weapon. This continued cycling of heating and cooling these two extremely important springs causes them to lose temper thereby lowering their operating poundage thus inducing stoppages.
So as we can see, ease of cleaning is just a bonus as the real advantage is the cold bolt and chamber environment.
And lastly. The DI system only exists because it only costs $3.75 for a gas tube with roll pin and a gas key on the carrier with two screws. The piston alternative would add over $30 to each rifle’s cost. Folks, we have bought alot of rifles.
This guy is a Production Assistant for the Tosh.0 tv show..
I think if you’re a cop and shoot a good guy by mistake, like this, then your done as a police officer. You should not get a second chance to shoot another innocent person. Sorry, but here is no constitutionally protected right to be a police officer. Besides that, shoot first and ask questions later is not an acceptable police policy.
no more sick and sadistic than video games have ever been plus the game is fun as hell its like a puzzle of death
The only part if the story that seems suspect is the use of bear spray. I wouldn’t recommend attacking someone before having a reasonable idea of whether the person is a danger.
For instance, say a woman has been attacked by a serial killer/rapist but escapes with a machete and is able to hide In your barn. After the bear spray attack she runs out if the barn and you shoot her dead because she is armed. Far fetched, but I would rather be surer of my target.
He was guilty of something anyway. Youre all guilty of something in Obamaland.
Show a little respect for the democratically elected president. I’m not the biggest fan of him but the office does deserve SOME respect. He’s not the one who said they can’t carry.
Well, he is right about him not being the reason they were disarmed.
As for respecting the office, I think its been a long, long time since it was worthy of that.
Mossad in Tehran. Thats a good one.
How about Israel trying to sink our USS LIBERTY and killing.wounding 200 US Sailors in 1967 and then Lying about it? With ‘friends’ like these….
Good review.
As much as I wish this was just an Obama administration picked guy, this guy has been a GS for a LONG time, he will retire with is retirement pay, hence why he’s not out till June, they are pushing his paperwork though to retire vice fired/quit. FYI, Sig offers military/LEO discounts which are pretty nice if you qualify to receive them. This is from the link provided in the story. My point here is bit less bashing more blame on the person doing the deed(s), this guy is just a well paid minion in the government, my guess GS 15 vice a SES and a very good buttshark. Notice when he was selected for this post, prior to Obama being elected.
“Robert Bray was named Assistant Administrator for Law Enforcement and Director of the Federal Air Marshal Service in June 2008. He also served as TSA’s Acting Deputy Administrator from April to June 2010.
Bray began his career with the Federal Air Marshal Service on May 5, 2003 as the Assistant Special Agent in Charge of the Mission Operations Center at the FAA Technical Center in Atlantic City, New Jersey. In November 2003, he was appointed as the Deputy Assistant Director for the Office of Training and Development and subsequently selected as the Assistant Director, Office of Security Services and Assessments in March 2006.
During his 20-year career with United States Secret Service, Bray was assigned to offices in Denver, Colorado, Palm Springs, California, Tulsa, Oklahoma and Washington, D.C. He served as a Supervisor on the Vice Presidential Protective Division, under Vice President Gore, and as a Supervisor on the Presidential Protective Division under President Clinton and President Bush.”
I’m still miffed about the guys that got hosed during the Whiskey Rebellion.
Honestly, for a milled Arsenal AK, $1300 MSRP is pretty reasonable. As the article stated, the last few have been around $2000.
There are cheaper options, but not all cheaper AK’s are created equal. If you want a really smooth AK for around $600, go pick up a MAK 90. They are beautifully built rifles, and still reasonably priced.
Good article. Love the targets!
Purchased cpx-1TT about 2 months ago. Really like it. Nice fit for my hand. Really liked the two Magazines deal since they run in excess of $50 for one. My biggest complaint is the polymer guard around the safety. After 25 rounds it creates a good size blister on the thumb. I will be taking a dremel to it before I shoot it again. The only real problem I have had was Winchester white box ammo was too long. The mag would jam up after putting 5-6 rounds in. To me that’s more ammo problem not gun problem. I would recommend this gun.
I’d rather be carrying a Sig anyways if given the choice. That’s all the local police and sheriffs around here carry but in .40 S&W and all of the ones I know personally speak very highly of them. I’ve never seen a DPS trooper here in Tx with anything but a Sig.
There are no details of the nature of the problem so we are left to guess, but what first comes to mind is that DPS may have failed in their due diligence of testing the equipment and ammo combination before introducing it to recruits in training. It also may be that they failed to involve the manufacturer early enough to deal with the problem before it got to this point.
I hope you are able to follow up on the details of the problem.
On the other hand, I have been told by city police officers that the M&P 9s that they have been issued are more prone to corrosion than either the Glocks they are replacing or privately owned M&P Shields. Strange.
There pistols had issues chambering non poly tipped hollow points such as the flying ashtray type hollow points. So bad in fact, a simple tap, rack wouldn’t cure the malfunction. You had to strip the mag out of the mag well by ripping it free. GREAT IN THE MIDDLE OF TRYING TO SAVE YOUR ASS, and or PARTNER, or FAMILY!! When compared to the Glock by Guns & Ammo TV, all they could say comparing the 2 was the Glock was of higher quality! There you go!
Yeah, call Smith and see how long it takes to even get one of their asshat customer service pricks on the phone! More than 3 different times calling Smith I waited over an hour and 10 mins to speak to someone! And was talked to like I was the dirtball for buying their SHIT FIREARMS! I even recorded the last 6 phone conversations, just in case I was going to have to sue there ass’s! If any high ups at Smith are actually interested in hearing these to rectifie their horrible customer service or manufacturing process’s, just let me know RIGHT HERE! Ill post all their belittling and down right RUDE behavior for all of us, it will in fact turn your stomach to what and how they spoke to me, when I was wounded 3 times in combat so they have the rights to sell they SHIT GUNS!!!
Dyspeptic Gunsmith, I trust your expertise. I would gladly travel out of my way to visit you and patronize your business. If I knew where to go, I would certainly make note of it, and I imagine many of the other readers on this website who are familiar with your erudite comments feel the same. A good gunsmith—experienced, competent, learned, and wise—is a valuable person to know. It’s definitely worth putting up with a dyspeptic attitude to have an amicable relationship with such a man. I can’t judge your work on blog comments alone, but they’re certainly a promising lead.
I can see this being a good car bag on the passenger seat.
Re Bundy’s arrest for free speech area violation.
Who is BLM to regulate the First Amendment?
John Paul Stevens’ parents should’ve been fixed- before he was born.
Amend the Constitution? Yes!
1.Limit Congressional terms to 12 years in either house.
2. One subject per bill.
3. Limit duration of any Congress (unless in time of declared war) to 3-4 months a year. Any legislation unpassed must wait until next year’s session.
4. All laws sunset after 10 years.
5. No exemptions from any law or regulation for Congress or Supreme Court.
6.Abolish all Congressional pensions-retroactively.
Must be done by legislation: 7. Slash congressional staff by 2/3. 8. Reduce salaries immediately by 1/3
Thanks Santa!
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