While gun rights advocates are waking-up to some of the positives offered by the Manchin-Toomey compromise “universal background check” bill, so are the gun grabbers. “Times Square could become a new ‘OK Corral’ if the NRA and its enablers in Congress tack an amendment onto a gun control bill, Sen. Charles Schumer said Sunday,” repeated by the entirely credulous nydailynews.com “The ‘reciprocal concealed carry’ amendment would allow anyone with a permit to carry a concealed weapon in any state to use carry (sic) the gun legally any other state.” And that’s bad because states with de facto bans on concealed carry (e.g. New York) would get an earful from residents shouting WTF. Where’s our concealed carry permit? Oh wait. That’s not it . . .
“Times Square is different than rural Wyoming, and our police don’t need even law abiding citizens having the right to carry guns,” Schumer said.
Wait. What? New York police don’t need law-abiding citizens to exercise their Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms? Who asked them?
I’ve got a question: is this a deal breaker? Would Republicans turn against the Manchin-Toomey compromise if the Dems strip national reciprocity form the bill? Senator Marco “I’ll filibuster” Rubio ain’t saying.
But Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) defended a nationwide reciprocity.
“Someone who has a conceal-carry permit has been background-checked. That’s why they have one…I think that should be part of the bill,” he said on ABC’s This Week.
Huh. So let’s go back to why this is a bad idea, according to the News.
Cops oppose the amendment because it would be too hard to figure out whether a person carrying a gun on the street was a legal permit holder from another state or a criminal, said Pete Paterson of the Nassau County Police Benevolent Association.
“This will be very dangerous for police officers,” Peterson said.
Not so benevolent if you ask me. But completely, 100 percent asinine. A concealed carry permit holder from another state would have to show his permit. (Kinda like a driver’s license if you think about it.) Hang on. Why would a NY cop query a permit holder in the first place? Oh right. Stop ‘N Frisk. Electronic gun detectors. Well . . . deal with it.
Fingers crossed.
Don’t worry Chuck,i have no intrest in visiting your shameful disgusting city.
It doesn’t matter, you need to be a NY resident to possess any handgun in NY.
All of Goldberg’s books are worth reading.
Ironically, a larger capacity magazine loaded to less than its full capacity is probably more reliable than one of lower capacity. So, a spree-killer who followed the SAFE act might have less chance of a malfunction.
With that class B misdemeanor I bet a spree-kill might not want that tacked on to his killing spree. 🙂
This is how the communists/socialists/progressive/statists achieve their goals, by dividing the population and creating strife.
NYers are now encouraged to snitch eachother out in a carbon copy of 1984.
Coming to your state soon?
1-855-GUNSNYS
Oh, Chuck….
You just don’t get it, do you? Consider these words from Robert Heinlein:
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” ~ Beyond This Horizon
You see, Chuck, imagine if a certain Adam Lanza would have tried to bring his version of horror and death to a crowd of children with armed mothers present. Those mothers, committed to killing in order to protect their children, would not have screamed and run about like victims. No. They would have given Adam Lanza his 15 seconds of fame by reducing him to a pile of bleeding meat.
So keep beating that collective drum of sissiness and fomented victimhood, Chuck. “Guns are bad, guns are bad, too many guns, grrrr, argh, whine, whine!” Those of us who actually care, and those of us who are vigilant, and those of us who would protect the innocent from the schemes of madmen, we know what we need to do. Please cease and desist in trying to stop us.
Our guns are not your enemy, Chuck. Our guns are the enemy of any who would seek to be ill-mannered and criminal. Bang.
How many times have we heard this argument now? Every single time someone tries to pass a CCW law? And how many times has it come to pass? None?
You have to remember that there are New Yorkers who reject the new, shiny clean Times Square and pine openly for the days when it had “character.” That is when it was a filthy, drug-infested, crime-infested blot on American civilization. Can’t expect this kind of person to make much sense.
Adding national reciprocity is a great idea. If we get it, helps sooth the sting from whatever else we get saddled with. But most likely, it sinks the whole gun-control ship.
Didn’t someone already try to detonate a car bomb in Times Square not too long ago?
Obviously, people like Schumer and Piers Morgan don’t know that the legendary fight at the O.K. Corral only lasted 30 seconds with a total of 30 shots fired. It was a gunfight between lawmen and outlaws. In total, the fight between left 3 people dead and another 3 wounded.
Personally, I’d take that scenario over a terrorist strike. But, hey, saying the “O.K. Corral” sounds scary to those who don’t know history. Not to mention the fact that nothing is stopping a criminal from carrying a gun through Times Square at any given moment.
This does not bode well for an overturning of the NY SAFE Act.
Whatever the Manchin-Toomey deal might be right now, it will be saddled with anti-gun amendments as soon as they can be offered. Feinstein is quietly waiting in the corner to throw in her 2 cents. The bill will never leave the Senate in any shape or form that might resemble positive change for gun owners.
CCRKBA and SAF are fooling themselves.
“a federal appeals court pointed to what it called ‘a longstanding tradition”
Legal slavery was a longstanding tradition, too. WTF does a longstanding tradition have to do with infringing on one’s natural rights that have been additionally protected in the Constitution?
Stupid lawyers. Illegal laws.
As expected, pressure by Obama administration has postponed this challenge until he can further stack the deck against 2A. The Republic is dead!
de facto registration:
3. While Alan claims that this bill would in no way lead to a registry, the data would be there for the taking, since the sale would be on a form 4473 kept by the dealer. If you didn’t sell through a dealer, the feds would know they only have to look to your family members to find the gun, since they would be the only people really exempt from the background check.
and without a felony for confiscation…
Apparently not…
This is not a surprise because SCOTUS has never wanted to take a case when things are still going through the state courts and legislative process as well as in DC.
SCOTUS has never wanted to get into the middle of a fight, they will wait till the battles are done.
If Newtown had not happened and then all the post Newtown BS around gun control, they would have taken the case. Now, we will need to wait at least one more year.
I realize that the practices of the SCOTUS are surrounded by murk and mystery, but do they often deny a hearing on a case on a particular subject if they think there is a “better” one coming down the pike?
Virginia, the cradle of freedom. The capital on the Potomac, once thought to be a boon for the Commonwealth has since turned into a curse as NoVa has become a bastion of statists, Progressives and freshly indoctrinated college grads who think their twitter accounts and unpaid internships at non-profits will put an end to world hunger, poverty and fossil fuels.
May this serve as a reminder that the real Virginia is still alive.
I HATE NY. How’s that for a new slogan?
4336 buses and 12053 taxis in NYC and not ONE can run over Chuckie?
The apparent arbitrariness that the Supreme Court has in reviewing cases is one of the things wrong with our system.
Hint – use Google Chrome and it will autofill your contact info and save oodles of time.
While I respect what SAF has accomplished in the past, I’m not buying in this time.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/sarahpac.com/StopSchumer-Toomey-Manchin.pdf
I was considering one of these for my youngest son’s first rifle… not anymore… sorry Remington, you made your bed now you have to lay in it. I will be getting him a Ruger 10/22.
Dear TTAG community,
Yesterday I had my John Kerry moment, that is I was against the Manchin-Toomey compromise before I was for it. Now I’m against it again. What tipped me? First, I saw their joint appearance on Meet the Press. Very suspicious. Like two weasels at a waffle festival. When Manchin trotted out the “if we can just save one life” cliche I nearly vomited on my laptop.
Looked into it some more, and with a great link provided by TTAG reader Michael B, I found these two excellent dissections of the bill:
http://www.volokh.com/2013/04/15/the-pro-gun-provisions-of-manchin-toomey-are-actually-a-bonanza-of-gun-control/
http://gunowners.org/congress04112013.htm
The first is written by Dave Kopel. While I respect the hell out of Alan Gottlieb, I respect Kopel more. And the points he makes are excellent. This bill may have been well-intentioned, but it’s poorly written and the potential for unintended consequences is terrifying.
So to all you “purists” and “extremists” and “my way or the highway” types, I’m sorry. You were right. I was wrong.
For penance, I’m spending some of my day off emailing every single senator with an NRA rating of B or higher to register my opposition. Here’s a page with direct links to their e-mail contact form if anyone wants to join in. (I recommend Google Chrome as it will autofill your contact info after the first one you do.)
http://www.shotmonster.com/senators.html
“3. While Alan claims that this bill would in no way lead to a registry, the data would be there for the taking, since the sale would be on a form 4473 kept by the dealer. If you didn’t sell through a dealer, the feds would know they only have to look to your family members to find the gun, since they would be the only people really exempt from the background check.”
This is such a weak argument after thinking about it for a bit. If the government was rounding up 4473 forms and we’ve already called that practice illegal the war is already on. Who cares what the laws are at that point?
The best we can do in “policy” to prevent some action we don’t like is call it “illegal”. It just gives us one more set of non-violent tools to try (the law, politics) to hold people accountable before resorting to the natural law of “force wins”. Anyone, selfish criminal or conscientious objector is always willing to break a law they find inconvenient. So we call selling a gun without a 4473 illegal. We call misusing 4473 forms to create a registration database illegal, we call a registration database itself illegal. Whether it is illegal or not, anyone with a need to do so can and will break a law. You, the government, whomever.
Currently the 4473 forms are not in a suitable format or location to be used as some kind of overwhelming weapon against the people, to say nothing about the lack of existence of co-operative manpower to turn that into a weapon and use it. If the government started illegally collecting this information it would be immediately noticeable and the war starts with a legal battle and moves into a political battle LONG before they could ever actually turn it into a tool suitable for any kind of use necessitating a violent battle. At the same time if you illegally collect guns or sell them without 4473 forms it would be a miracle if anyone noticed.
What do you guys think? If the government starts illegally rounding up the 4473 forms and creating a database you are going to be able to continue to live in your present style of life in your house because you have a rifle without a paper trail? By the time they’ve even started to “weaponize” the forms the hot war is already on and it doesn’t matter. You would then be a militia member, (to them an enemy combatant), they assume your are armed. A database report doesn’t clue them into that fact, a muzzle report does. They’ll treat you accordingly and you’ll treat them accordingly. This will likely never happen, but if it did the advantage is overwhelming to the people.
There is no security of the state argument against this 4473 stuff that makes sense in the context of what would actually happen if the government broke the laws or behaved incongruously with the people’s will on such an important and fundamental issue.
The only tenable argument is whether or not the government should regulate private business or property transactions with respect to firearms. That’s a legit concern and a legit debate. Talk about it, not this other stuff.
Continuing the Western motif, Schumer is a lyin’ polecat, bushwacker and hoss thief who speaks with forked tongue. And if the NYC cops had been at the OK Corral, they would have shot nine innocent bystanders and at least one horse.
Remington? Um…no thanks. They will be supplying the gub’ment against us when the sh*t hits the fan. Shame, that.
I think this is the best part…
“I think it’s terrible that the writers and producers of that show didn’t think to contact someone in Newtown to let us know this was coming”…
So now producers should have to contact anyone who might be offended before airing a show. People there are some buttons on that remote control. Press a few and you’ll find at least one turns it off and one will change the channel!
Who would ever want the wild west?
http://www.politisite.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/us-historical-homicide-chart.gif
The 4473 tells the gov where to get the info and they seem to think they’re above the law in order to get what they want. If you don’t comply as an FFL they’ll just shut you down. How long before they would pass something like the patriot act to get all the information they want from dealers? It’s for the children…
“Times Square is different than rural Wyoming, and our police don’t need
even law abiding citizens having the right to carry guns,” Schumer said.
Yes, rural Wyoming doesn’t anywhere near the crime rate as times Square.
Wyoming has conceal carry as a right, not something you have to apply for.
A majority of criminals will stay away from places where they can get shot.
Again with the “the police will save you” lie that never has been proven true.
What we’re getting is the hyperbole shoot-out in the D.C. to N.Y. corridor.
And is anyone surprised by this? If you know what houses are unarmed, you know what houses to rob! Burn NY, burn!!!!
If I were looking for a carry conceal revolver today, I would certainly go test shoot the Ruger LCR line. They are extremely comfortable to hold and the market price seems to be reasonable last I looked (late March 2013). If you want versatility, get a .38/.357 model; gives you a full range of power levels to experience.
Good to see that some of the eastern states are approaching Idaho’s respect for the 2nd Amendment. Now they need to work on prohibiting lawsuits from criminals that are shot while committing burglary or other felonies. And be sure to remove any “one gun a month” BS. And make anyone who builds a home/subdivision near an existing public shooting range financially responsible for any noise reduction they might want to occur on the range (amazing how that cuts down on the noise complaints).
And another 22 with no (decent) iron sights?
Recently looking for a 22 to teach sons marksmanship (vs a semiauto/ammo burner). Very surprised how few proper options – bolt action, high quality sights and a reasonable price. Savage as close as was coming up with but talked to several stores and no one thought could get one.
Buy a double barreled shotgun. in case of assault or home invasion you step out onto your porch/balcony and fire a blast into the air. That’ll scare ’em away. Or fire blindly at the door. Take your pick. Problem solved according to Biden.
Pity is reserved for those who are unable to avoid the circumstances they find themselves in. These idiots in NYC voted in the representatives that made them excellent targets for crime by passing assine laws. They $hit their bed, now let them lie in it.
Never, ever forget: Their goal is citizen disarmament. Their strategy is to drive a wedge between different groups of gun owners. Their plan is to achieve their goal through incremental bans and restrictions. Stand firm, stand united. Our rights are non-negotiable. Screw adding a few good things on to a bad bill. We need to repeal some laws not add more!
What’s the overall length of those shotgun mags? Just wondering if they’re more than 28″ and would now (well, July 1) be illegal here in CO.
Why its all due to those gosh dern guns ,by gummit. I wonder how long they can push the “we love you ” laws in that toilet, Randy
Gil Bellows. Just a little Hollywood makeup to take a few years off.
Funny as in weird timing: Obama gets reelected and then Sandy Hook happens followed a few months later by the Marathon Bombing. Here comes more calls for reducing the liberties of law abiding Americans.
Proper cause? Against the Constitution. Carry anyway. Better judged by twelve than carried by six.
OK corral is better than visitors getting mugged.