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From the Second Amendment Foundation . . .

A federal lawsuit supported by the Second Amendment Foundation and Firearms Policy Coalition has been filed in New York, challenging that state’s ban on so-called “assault weapons.” Plaintiffs are represented by SAF and FPC attorneys. The case is known as Lane v. James.

The complaint was filed in U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York, on behalf of New York residents J. Mark Lane of Larchmont and James Sears of Irving. They are represented by attorneys Cody Wisniewski, Adam Kraut, who is also SAF executive director, and Nicolas J. Rotsko.

Named as defendants are New York State Attorney General Letitia James, State Police Supt. Steven A. Nigrelli and Westchester County District Attorney Miriam E. Rocah, in their official capacities.

“The issue in this lawsuit is very plain,” said SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan M. Gottlieb. “Both Sears and Lane are law-abiding New York residents who wish to own modern semiautomatic sport-utility rifles such as the AR-15, for lawful purposes including target shooting and home defense. Such rifles are in common use across the country, yet in the Empire State, citizens face the threat of arrest, confiscation, prosecution, fined and imprisonment for lawfully using such rifles.”

The lawsuit alleges that when the Second Circuit previously upheld New York’s semi-auto ban in 2015, the court relied on a two-step test that has since been rejected by the U.S. Supreme Court in its June Bruen decision as “one step too many.” Because the Second Circuit concluded that so-called “assault weapons” at issue are in common use, it should have held the New York ban violates the Second Amendment. This new action will allow the Second Circuit to correct the situation.

The complaint seeks a declaratory judgment that Lane and Sears have a fundamental right to keep and bear arms, and that the ban on common semiautomatic firearms by New York law is a violation of rights guaranteed by the Second and Fourteenth Amendments. Plaintiffs are also asking for a permanent injunction on the enforcement of the New York ban.

“We’re simply asking the court to uphold the Constitution,” Gottlieb stated.

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  1. I sincerely hope that you succeed. The key question though, is how much money do the plaintiffs have after they win, to fight off the inevitable restrictions that will be put in place. Things like limiting the barrel length and any other BS idea they can come up with to delay deny and otherwise keep them in court until they give up for lack of funding. Remember that the government has unlimited funding to fight.

    • Things are pretty sad when the Second Amendment hinges on arms being in common use. That places an end date on the 2A when Ray Guns and such are invented.

      Instead of the never ending nail biting tit for tat courtroom drama how about cutting the chase and abolishing Gun Control like its sidekick Slavery?

      • “That places an end date on the 2A when Ray Guns and such are invented.”

        Not necessarily.

        Let’s say charged particle weapons are invented and become available to the population. One could argue that these weapons are not “firearms” and are not subject to current firearms regulations. Hypothetically these weapons could also have a range capabilities up to and including lethal capabilities. It would be difficult to argue that these new devices are “firearms” as such.

        If these weapons are distributed and purchased quickly, one could argue that during their unregulated phase, they became “commonly used” if uptake is fast enough.

        • The constitution doesn’t specify firearms. Keep and bear arms. I think that covers the death ray.

      • “Things are pretty sad when the Second Amendment hinges on arms being in common use. That places an end date on the 2A when Ray Guns and such are invented.”

        Justice Thomas (or was it Scalia?) dealt with that already, Deborah.

        The same way the march of progress applies to new developments in electronic communications for the 1st and 4th amendments, future defensive advancements are covered for the 2A.

        We are covered… 🙂

        • Heck, even before Bruen, SCOTUS held 9-0 that a Mass. ban on stun guns violated 2A.

          2A protects “arms,” not just guns.

    • “i like all these developments, but for some reason…”

      It’s almost like the depth of the magnitude of the ‘Bruen’ decision hasn’t fully sunk in with them yet.

      But when it does… 🙂

      • yeah, two years ago i’da thunk so.
        my sleep is marginalized thinking about how they just do what they want.
        i’ll cling to decorum while they shovel the dirt onto me with a running board.

      • “It’s almost like the depth of the magnitude of the ‘Bruen’ decision hasn’t fully sunk in with them yet.”

        Convinced “they” know precisely what “Bruen” portends; near total erasure of gun control laws. That is the reason for new laws that directly defy the SC. The intent is to stall “Bruen” as much as possible, in expectation of Justice Thomas* dying, or retiring, or maybe the SC can be expanded to ensure leftist control for generations.

        *Justice Thomas is “our” RBG.

        • “…near total erasure of gun control laws. That is the reason for new laws that directly defy the SC.”

          Just a few weeks back the SCotUS ‘G.V.R.’ed a 2A ruling a district court made back to the court it came from with instructions to apply the ‘Bruen’ standard.

          Meaning, the SCoTUS no longer needs to grant cert. and re-hear a case all over again.

          I expect more of the same in the future… 🙂

  2. Chances are the corrupt Supreme Court will refuse to hear the case and let the lower courts anti-gun rulings stand. Its standard operating procedure.

    • dacian, the DUNDERHEAD. The Supreme Court is “corrupt” You have got to be shi**ing me. Neanderthals like you think that following the Constitution as written is “corrupt”

      • PLEASE STOP responding to “Dacian” he/she/it lives to troll. Response is the oxygen that keeps it alive. If we stop responding it will go away.

        • Excuse me, Mr Crognale, but I am not going to let dacian, the DUNDERHEAD go unanswered.
          If you think he will just go away, you have no idea of just how these Leftist anti-gunners think.

    • “Chances are the corrupt Supreme Court will refuse to hear the case and let the lower courts anti-gun rulings stand.”

      They don’t have to do any more than write 3 *magic* letters on it and send it back to the court where it came from.

      G. V. R.

      Grant cert, Vacate the ruling, and Remand to the court where it came from with instructions on what to do, and that is, to apply the ‘Bruen’ standard.

      That’s the beauty of a G.V.R., they don’t need to do a damn thing but write those 3 letters on it and send it back, you retarded fuckwit.

      And there’s NOTHING you brain-damaged Leftist Scum ™ can do about it! 😉

      • Well damn here I was thinking I would have time to save up for AR stuff before some of the balls got rolling. Are ACOGS on quadrails still cool? (Gives an idea how long I have lived in NY)

        • “Are ACOGS on quadrails still cool?”

          Dunno, I have iron sights on all of my ARs… 🙂

        • If I had been working up here that long I would be retired and potentially your neighbor by now.

  3. and its not a good year for New York gun grabbers > BREAKING 2A NEWS: NY “Red Flag Laws” DECLARED UNCONSTITUTIONAL by NY Supreme Court Justice.

    • Wow. That judge issued a brutal beat down on an obviously unconstitutional law. This video is well worth watching. Thanks for posting it.

    • Counterintuitively that is NY’s lower court and would be non-binding for the state. With that said precedent and would love to see the state try to appeal it. To the two levels of court of appeals (our superior/supreme court’s) and find out how constitutional that law may be

  4. So, since the NY law specifically cites the Ruger Mini-14 Tactical as an assault weapon, I will cite my recent experience trying to site-in my new Vortex scope on my Mini-14.

    This was yesterday, at the Rod and Gun club.

    Apparently, the berm was still wet from the rain we had a few days ago. Neither Jack (my shooting buddy) nor I, could see where the dirt was kicking up when the bullet did not strike the gong. So we could not identify whether I was shooting low or high or right or left. I tried incrementally working along the hash marks on the cross-hairs, but that did not work, either. I had not brought any fresh paper sights. So, I removed the scope and shot with the iron sights. Anything else I could have tried?

    Jack’s S&W AR15 jammed, seriously jammed. Could not clear it without disassembling. We have taken that gun out 5 times. All 5 times something went wrong. Not a gun I would recommend. My Mini-14 has never given me a problem.

    Back to the NY law: we should be able to use those law makers for deliberate infringement of civil rights in knowing violation of the Bruen decision.

    • I haven’t had a single problem with my S&W AR15. I suggest (obviously) having a pro look at it. Mine eats all kinds of ammo and works with metal and Magpul mags, 2.23 and 5.56.
      Green tip has been the most accurate in mine.

      • My S&W AR works great. I paid $372 +tax “used” never fired at my favorite pawnshop. User error likely. I have never heard anyone boast about their Mini 14 except on Youtube. And here🙄

        • muckraker & FWW,

          Sounds like Jack got a defective unit. Yes, I love the Mini-14. Sturdy, accurate, eats anything, low recoil, fun to shoot. I like it better than any of the AR15s I have fired. It is, however, a bit heavy.

      • muckraker,

        Yes. Good suggestion. I used a laser sighting round at home before going to the range. However, at the range, we could not see the red dot at 100 yards, even though the label on the box said we should. I should have moved to the pistol range and used a 25 yard target with the laser, but rifles are not allowed on the pistol range and the club will kick you out for violating range rules.

        Will try again.

        • Go to
          Free BDC targets that you can print out.
          One is for 5.56 specifically at 25yds. Sorry your range doesn’t cover you. We have a 35yd indoor range locally and a 100yd indoor range an hour away. Seriously though check out pewpew.

    • You can use a ballistics calculator and target at a closer distance of 10 yards for which the zero will will intersect at your desired zero distance when the round impacts the 10 yard target at a certain distance below the point of aim at 10 yards and zero that way. I prefer this way for my AR platform optics, always been on at the longer zero range. But it will work for any rifle/scope. You can always fine tune later if you wish but if you do it right you will probably not need to do so.

      Remember though, your click distances at 10 yards are not going to be the full amount – for example, if each click is 1 inch (AKA ‘1 MOA’) at 100 yards then at 10 yards each click will be 1/10th of an inch. But this might help you out because you will have all your rounds impact on the target at 10 yards and be able to see them on the target so know where you are. For example, I know from the ballistic calculator for Federal 5.56 55gr FMJ boat tail and a standard optic tubed red dot absolute co-witness height of 2.6 inches (over bore on an MSR – 1.5 inches for a bolt action) that at 10 yards a round impacting at two inches below POA will be zeroed at 50 yards – so if I zero for 50 yards at 10 yards my POA is the target center and I adjust keeping my POA always the target center until the rounds impact two inches directly below the POA and its zero’d for 50 yards

      • .40,

        Good suggestion. I did not understand everything you wrote, but I will do some more reading. This is the first time I am siting-in a scope; gotta learn from other folk so that I do not have to make all the mistakes on my own. 🤠

        • There’s a huge volume of Youtube videos about siting in a scope. 25-near infinity distance. Extremely helpful to me. No suggestions on who to trust. Good luck LifeSavor!

        • look up 50/200 zero at 10 yards and it will give you the idea. then use a ballistics calculator for your ammo and setup and apply the same concept at 10 yards.

        • I just did a search for “50/200 zero at 10 yards” as suggested by .40 c Booger and found a lot of good information.

      • Something I thought was quite dramatic. I zeroed my 300BLK at 50yds and at 100yds the impact was 2 inches above center. It was still rising and not just a little bit. I was shooting Sig Marksmen OTM a match grade .300.

        • that’s what ammo does…Basically continues to its apex then begins to fall .. its the arc of the bullet path. at some point past your 50 yard zero its going to hit a second zero point if you had a target at the point.

        • I get it .40 cal.
          2 inches at 50yds seemed like quite a bit.
          Imagine the arc to hit the “bad guy” at 1/2 a mile! 😎

        • .40 cal,
          I would love to see the graphical representation of the bullet path that took out the IS bitch holding the grenade launcher in Iraq. 3540meters…

    • Only time I’ve seen an AR lock up was because the bolt was too dry. AR’s run when wet. Doesn’t matter if it’s clean or dirty.

        • was steel cased ammo being used?

          did you mortar the AR and if so could you open the bolt then?

          did the round in the chamber actually fire?

          you shooting reloads?

          I’ve seen this happen on an AR with steel case ammo. firing fine then one round came along and it happened.

        • What 40 cal said. I would add checking the cases for diameter. Also check the chamber for corrosion. Had one stick in one of mine once due to corrosion.

    • All,

      Thank you for the good suggestions, above!! Evidences the best of TTAG!!!

      I will follow through as you all suggest.

      • Lifesavor,
        I too appreciate all of the advice that people here on TTAG have to offer and want to thank them. Happy New Year Friends, I pray this new year brings you peace and happiness for you and your family.

    • Embrace the mud. Select an object (clay on edge, plastic bottle, charcoal briquette,,) and put in near a puddle of water or saturated soil. You WILL see geysers where your round impacts. This needs to take place closer than 100 yards but will allow for initial “coarse” adjustments sufficient to get you on paper.

      Story time: A couple years back I went to the range in February but neglected to bring targets. I ended up rooting through the trash and found a number of water bottles that were about 1/3 full but the contents frozen. They were fine targets for my 22 but they just leapt into the air the ice was hit. I was getting some really puzzled looks from folks a few lanes down who seemed to think I was using some sort of exploding ammo.

      Happy New Year

  5. Say the lawsuit succeeds, and the ban is struck down. What if the state of NY just ignores the ruling? Would Biden’s DOJ support the ruling and sanction the state of NY??

    The left isn’t gonna stand to lose. We live in interesting times.

    • If a state openly announced that the U.S. constitution no longer applied within its borders, this would likely be the start of a civil war. There is no obvious remedy within the rule of law for something like this. However, it is more likely that NY and similar states will engage in lawfare: seemingly accept court decisions but enact new restrictions tailored to pass muster in friendly leftist courts and/or deny constitutional rights during time-consuming litigation. This route has little downside for a state like NY, at least for now, while tossing the constitution openly and publicly would have many consequences.

    • The state officials involved could be sued for deprivation of civil rights under sections 1983 and 1985. Where the law is clear (as it would be if the law was struck down, and the state officials then said, “screw SCOTUS, we’re going to continue to enforce the law,” they would have no qualified immunity.

      Frankly, given the NY politicos public statements post-Bruen, claims against the state officials need to start being included in test cases.

  6. That picture. A $3000 Radian Model 1 rifle with a Crimson Trace $300 optic. Uh, if you are going to flex on the poors you have to complete the entire package with at least a NF 1-8x ATACR.

    • I have a Vortex UH1 on my AR15. My buddy gives me crap about it being a mailbox sitting up top. Whatever…super fast acquisition and tack driver accuracy ay 50 yds. Ugly? Maybe…
      Deadly? Hehehe ..

      • The UH1 seems to be a well liked optic. I have an Eotech EXPS-3 on a rifle and I really enjoy shooting it. It is super fast and also works well under NV of course. I have not been able to handle a UH1 myself as nobody seems to carry them in stock around me.

        • Wow! That MSRP is 200 above what I paid for the Vortex, but if you like it I can’t argue at all. Fast acquisition and accuracy are all that matters.

        • Went back and looked at the reticle combos. The 4 dot reticle is awesome! I may add this to my currently in process AR15 build. I need to see in person as my glasses are how I have to choose my optics.

        • I bought my two Eotechs as refurbs and saved a lot of money. They still work great after a few years of owning them both. I don’t have magnifiers for them as I don’t really push the two shorties they are on past 100 yards or so.

  7. @Geoff “I’m getting too old for this shit” PR
    “Meaning, the SCoTUS no longer needs to grant cert. and re-hear a case all over again.”

    A GVR is merely a ticket to ride the appeals merry-go-round.

    Apparently, GVRs have no time limit for a circuit court to respond/rule, IAW “Bruen”.

  8. If they win the case, this further sets precedent and further strengthens gun rights.
    I would expect the NY governor to then come up with something even more insane in the form of so-called gun safety. And expect it too to get struck down.
    Maybe they should be looking into crazed guys attacking LEOs with a big knife than law abiding citizens.

    Goes to the Supreme Court, and they rule in Lane’s favor, that could be a real blow to gun control organizations and politicians.

  9. I wonder what effect winning this lawsuit would have on NYC’s assault weapons ban. I imagine that needs a separate lawsuit.

    • “I imagine that needs a separate lawsuit.”

      Probably better expectation management is to assume each and every gun control law will have to be challenged.


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