“There may have been traces of marijuana in his system but there is no question that George Zimmerman had hate running through his.” – Rev. Jamal-Harrison Bryant, Trayvon Martin’s mother gets an ovation at Balto. church, baltimoresun.com


  1. Yes clearly hate was the emotion that got TM shot by GZ. I wonder what it was that GZ hated; kids in hoodies, skittles, getting his head bounced off a side walk, blacks (gasp).

    I’m thinking he was running more on fear than hate.

      • @SD3

        have you ever been in a fist fight before? seriously, getting in a fight is not nearly in the same ballpark as “hate the process of being murdered.” pulling out a gun a shooting someone because you can’t fight to protect yourself is a pussified, bitch move, GZ is a coward, not a hero. and you sound like alot like him.

        • Lurking in shadows and assaulting someone when their back is turned is a pussified, bitch move.

          TM was a thug, not a saint. FLAME DELETED

        • FLAME DELETED You can’t possibly know what happened that night. None of us do. FLAME DELETED

        • Wait, what?

          How about you try getting your head bashed into a sidewalk a few times, and then see how effectively you can defend yourself with just your hands.

        • sdog says:
          May 21, 2012 at 11:11


          have you ever been in a fist fight before? seriously, getting in a fight is not nearly in the same ballpark as “hate the process of being murdered.” pulling out a gun a shooting someone because you can’t fight to protect yourself is a pussified, bitch move, GZ is a coward, not a hero. and you sound like alot like him.

          James says:
          May 21, 2012 at 11:21

          Lurking in shadows and assaulting someone when their back is turned is a pussified, bitch move.

          TM was a thug, not a saint. FLAME DELETED

          Explain to me again how this works?

          I see a hearty double-standard here.

  2. You’d think for being a public figure and Christian in a minority he’d be more sensitive about spewing hateful bullshit.

    • It has been my expierience that most people that constantly claim that they are a “christian”, are the very ones spewing hateful and judgemental BS. Sad but true.

  3. What is the first rule of Fight Club? Don’t post Youtube videos of fight club! Looks like Trayvon was a particpate in an underground MMA fight club in Miami. Underground fight clubs are generally a gang related activity.

  4. So Jamal-Harrison Bryant is not only man of God, he is also a mind reader. How wonderful it must be to stand in his presence.

  5. When are these minority “leaders” going to get it through their skulls that there is no great conspiracy perpetrated by the white man to subdue black people. If there is, I didn’t get the memo. The only hate I see on a consistent basis comes from black people and some other minorities (latinos I’m lookin at you). Race pimps like Rev. Jamal-Harrison Bryant and his ilk work hard to keep blacks relevant by doing everything they can to make them victims of racism. Black people have long been accepted in american society and quite frankly white people are over it .

    • White people are clearly over it. How many democratically elected leaders aren’t the race of their country’s majority? Not many. And I think we’re the only ones where the percentage is well under 20%.

      • At most, by definition in a representative democracy such as our own, blacks, for example, should make up no more than 12 or 13% of any elected representative body.

    • If there was no great conspiracy and no “whitey” keeping them down to hate, then how would those in power maintain control over their fearful masses? How would opportunists like Sharpton make money? And how would the minorities be able to justify their culture of victimhood?

      Responsibility for one’s life takes work and effort. Why bother when you can hate?

  6. Just my worthless opinion, but if GW hated TW so much for what ever reason, I would have thought he would empty his gun into the guy, then beat him with the empty pistol. As for the “good” reverend, his little speach/sermon serves no one in the community except himself. Sounds like he’s like to get some of the fame and power of the other “good” reverends, Sharpton and Jackson, again, just my worthless opinion.

  7. Funny how no one was calling George Z. a hateful racist while he was volunteering his weekends towards teaching illiterate African Americans how to read?

  8. Too much has been invested in the lies and propoganda and we do not live in a world where people will admit they had been possibly wrong. Saying you are wrong and backing down would remove the whole sky is falling mystique. Too many members of the black community have invested too much in an election year in a key state to back down. The family hired media consultant Ryan Julison to help the spin — enough said! Lets not let facts get in the way of the power of emotion and anger.

    As George Costanza once said “It’s not a lie if you believe it”

    The lies now have to keep going till either the outcome they want happens, or the courts gets a clue and they can blame the Justice system. Either way they win — if they get what they want, they win by showing the power of their BS and it will give them more power to twist the system, if they loose, they play the victom which they are experts at. There is no loosing so they will keep up the spin because in a world where nobody takes personal responsibility, there is always someone or something you can find to blame.

  9. What amazes me is not the race-baiting and hate mongering. There always has been and will be someone blaming another as the reason their life sucks. There always will be someone who will use that feeling to consolidate their power over others. I am amazed at so much of the population has been convinced that it is wrong for a person to do something to PREVENT crime from happening to them or their neighbors. Whatever the true circumstances of the shooting are, how is walking/driving around in your community, while carrying a gun for self defense, a crime? So he called 911 a bunch of times. So what. He was trying to make is community safer.

  10. And this is why racism will never die. Not because of whites, not because of “conservatives,” and “rednecks,” but because of people like this and their mindless sheep. The scumsuckers who gave that standing ovation might as well have been wearing hoods themselves.

    • right, so Black folks are responsible for the racilized history of the US?, got it. because those “rednecks,” you referred to are all NAACP members?

      • Yup, use racialized history to promote modern hate, aggression, and regressive victimhood rather than cooperation, positive momentum, and transcendence of historical conflict. You’d fit right in with those hatemongers calling to kill whitey. Have fun with your pathetic victimhood.

        Go on and keep falling back on history as an excuse. That’s what cowards do. And that’s why humanity (or at least America) will never progress. Anyone who can’t see that racism is purely a money-making and political scheme is a fool, a tool, or both.

        • i am not making excuses for anyone, merely pointing out the logic of your post regarding how “racism will never die” this requires efforts on BOTH sides. i have no idea why i would like to “kill whitey” sans MYSELF? so i don’t know where you were going with that one.”pathetic victim hood”(are you projecting here?) there is no victim here, i am merely applying what i have learned in grad school so far. so i don’t know where that was going. where did my comment specifying the intrinsic links to US history to ALL situations regarding race in modern America lead to victimhood? we in the US imported our discourses around race from Europe, therefore reflecting an historic link between these two systems, again. look at science, economics and politics of other examples.

          however, your comments regarding history are problematic s as this is the way that information is taught in schools, and are not reflective of any academic or intellectual discourses i am familiar with.

      • Black folk are directly responsible for the radicalized history of the US. If African kingdoms would have not traded slaves for the white mans guns and other trinkets, they would have never been here.

        • I may be confused but it sounds like you don’t like blacks or Jews. So which side were you on when the anarchists attacked the alleged white supremacists in Tinley Park over the weekend?

        • @ matt
          sorry try the Portuguese in the 1400’s, in west africa with Madeira island (1420) who started exporting sugarcane in 1455. later the azores (1427) around both of these islands served to b the practice session for plantation agriculture what was exported to the new world which is a completely different system that the one of Muslim origin in north Africa. got to love that historical revisionism i see here from posters some times.

        • sdog, keep on ignoring that blacks have been enslaving blacks since the dawn of time, and continue to do so today in places such as Sudan.

        • tdiinva, not really sure how jews fit in here, and i’m quite sure i’ve said in the past that i’m not a white supremacist, I am a racist. The latter believes in differences between races, not that one is particularly superior. You also seem to be confusing a mob with anarchists. You couldnt even call it a black bloc as there was no protest.

  11. Oh yeah, there go the black people attempting to turn it into a hate crime…just like the lynching days of old. Ridiculous. Little do they know that they are only hurting their cause with this kind of crap.

    • cant post says slow down, but in short, blacks have their own clubs, college scholarships, tv network(s), beauty pageants, etc. White people only get to bend for the race card and break and occasionally get hung by the media.
      Not sure how it hurts their cause.

      • They say they want equality…and in reality they do now have equality that they should be celebrating/promoting to the black community (look at our President)…and yet they take every chance they can to point out that they don’t. At some point it becomes self perpetuating. They make people like me who want to have an open mind/heart to them close down!

        • yo, yo, dawg, “They make people like me who want to have an open mind” is a complete fallacy, good to see you have yourself convinced otherwise.

  12. @ motojb & james

    good to see you have your personal emotions invested in a situation you were not even involved with. moto, keep your racist mocking of Black English( yo, yo, what is that bullshit? or is that who all Black people talk i guess?) to yourself, by doing this you made yourself into what you are accusing me of being. you are racist , TOOL.

    james, ,I am no “thug” so your neoliberal code language betrays your worldview, “thug” is a substitution for N***** in your commentary.

    • Thug, in my “neoliberal” (does this guy have any kind of clue?) code speak means thug.

      1.A violent person, esp. a criminal.
      2.A member of a religious organization of robbers and assassins in India, suppressed by the British in the 1830s.

      To quote your above comment, to put my own in perspective:
      “pulling out a gun a shooting someone because you can’t fight to protect yourself is a pussified, bitch move, GZ is a coward, not a hero. and you sound like alot like him.”

      So, fist fighting to protect oneself from what may or may not be an armed assailant is a manly thing to do, while carrying and using a gun when needed is a “pussified, bitch” thing to do.

      Your statement indicates a clear valuation of physical combat in the settling of disputes. This makes you a violent person. See the definition of thug again (and feel free to skip the one about 1830s Indian robbers and assassins).

      Here’s something for you. I suffered a spinal cord injury when I was young. I had God on my side, though – it left me with a pretty good limp and a weakened left arm. Through the use of various dirty tactics, limited knowledge of various martial arts, and a thorough understanding of physics and body mechanics, I can and have thrown down quite a few times in my younger years. I once hit a guy so hard it lifted him up off the ground and he did half a backflip in mid-air; his ear was so jacked he lost his sense of balance and couldn’t walk (or even stand up straight) for like two weeks. I never really put a whole lot of faith in violence to settle conflicts, but there was a time when I could damned well use it if I had to. But, a couple decades later, and my fighting days are long behind me.

      By the logic you seem to subscribe to based on the above quote, you would have me disarmed and perpetually victimized by those younger, faster, and stronger than myself.

      I would tend to disagree with that.

      I carry a gun, legally of course. I practice with it, and all my other guns, as time permits. I’m a pretty good shot with my pistol, and way better with a rifle. I will use my guns to protect myself, those I love, and all that I hold dear from any thug or criminal or sexual deviant that may be lurking in the shadows waiting for an opportune moment to ply his trade. From point blank to hundreds of yards, I’m covered, and I sleep well at night knowing it.

      While it worked in the past, to interject yourself into an argument and yell “RRRRRRAAAAAAACISM” as loud as you can, like the boy who cried wolf, that debate tactic is losing it’s power. (Even Israel’s equivalent of “AAAAAANTI-SSSSEMITE” doesn’t work like it used to.) Nobody’s buying it any more.

      The white man isn’t the black man’s problem – the black man is. As evidence of this, I submit Detroit’s murder rate (http://www.detroitmi.gov/DepartmentsandAgencies/PoliceDepartment/CrimeStatistics.aspx). Go to crimemapping.com and have a look at Detroit (http://www.crimemapping.com/map.aspx?aid=0c6c72dd-7122-4509-b897-17f60e517d9d). Just this past week alone there are more crimes on the map than their system can handle.

      It’s not white people doing that. It’s all of Obama’s sons.

      I’m willing to bet that is the problem everybody has with SYG and CCW right now. Used to be that a thug could go out and murder, rob and rape to his heart’s content. Worst case scenario, he’d get caught and end up doing a nickel or a dime in the joint and then be back on the street. Now, there’s the chance – the ever growing chance – that that thug ain’t coming home at all. This scares the thugs, and all the people like them.

  13. There are examples a-plenty of anti-black racism in the US. Reading some of the comments right here are on this page proves that much. However, the Martin shooting was not one of them.

    • But not me though right? I mean, come on, I’m not racist, I just wanted to point out they have their own beauty pageant that whites cant attend, and that all beauty pageants should be abolished, like slavery!

    • Funny, the only racism I see on this post is coming from sdog, lashing out at people who are giving their opinions. Everyone else is simply giving an opinion, unmarred by the silent tyranny of political correctness.

      Racism (taking out the “institutionalized” part) is one’s hatred of or feeling of superiority over another for no other reason than race. Racism is not defined as as one’s observations and opinions of race relations and their imbalanced coexistence, however much certain people would love to use it as such. Sdog’s demand of others’ fealty to his opinion based on his perceived slights is the closest thing to racism on this post, aside from the news story itself. Which are both anti-white.

  14. is your post reflecting your feeling of persecution evidence of the “victimhood” you were talking about earlier silver?

    btw “freedom of speech” does not mean “immunity from criticism.” this is a public forum and i was simply responding to other people’s posts. earlier you called me a “racist” for identifying the linkages between history-race- and modern sociopolitical discourse. then when i point out these things you accuse me of “wanting to kill whitey.” this is childish nonsense, you are an adult, stop it. when did i say ” i want to kill whitey”? oh wait never, that category would include myself, and some of the people i care the most about, so if you want to address me directly in the future, don’t tell me that i want to kill myself, fiance, parents, etc, please, its ridiculous.

    Lately, many wall posts on this very excellent website that involved the GZ vs TM has been a sounding board for thinly disguised bigotry. unlike other comments that i have ignored, i jumped right into this one, got to love those 1st amendment rights there.

  15. Seems like i read in history that the USA started, after the Red coats went to collect all the guns up, but the people said Ha we have a basic God given right to protect our lives, our homes, our papers, all that we own… the most basic right is to save your life,and NO ONE has a right to take it away…..END OF…

  16. This thread is gold. We have on one side people who are stating that the way some people act turns them off from those people. On the other side we have people stating that history is the reason for the hatred. We have some people lashing out at those with opinions as if they can prove those opinions wrong from the throne pushed in front of the keyboard. I will put out my families experiences and opinions. These, sadly enough, cannot be disproven.

    For those stating that the way some people act turns them off and closes their minds – I hear you. I met my East Indian wife on E-harmony and flew for the first time in my life to the U.S. I encountered a few folk at the local store we went to and color was not an issue. She was Indian. She attended an all-black church (as they called it). Our relationship worked out fine and we were married. I moved here (Cleveland) and we continued to attended her church. There would be speeches of ‘rising up’ and ‘taking back’ what was ours. It kind of struck a cord with me as I was raised in Canada and racism is a non-issue there (mostly where I grew up). We call our black folk Ted or John. They are just painted a different color to us. No issue. So here I am in this church that quickly becomes a taker church to me. We provided the folk rides to and from the church and tithed and didn’t ask for gas money. We did this for two years. We watched from the outside (even though we were members) and watched as the pastor talked about how he needed more men in his church and how they needed to be married and how they needed to be mixed race (though none of the actions of the church were inviting to outsiders). We did not feel welcome at all. We were called family but if we didn’t open our mouths to a soul there we would sit for 3 hours and leave without a word to anyone but ourselves. When our child was born we more than understood the use of the term ‘family’ they tossed at us to keep us coming (tithing). No one from the church came to see us. Free parking being too expensive turned into no gas in the car. When it was tithe time everyone needed to talk to us. We left and never got so much as a good-bye after six years of faithful one-sided friendship.

    For us we learned a lot. My wife learned that just because someone is black doesn’t mean they are not nasty racists. I learned that color does matter and that not everyone has an open mind. I saw first hand a leader in the black church admit that they needed to be more involved with other communities and races but make sure that no one but a black man or woman walked in that door, if any one at all did.

    We became fed up with the community in Cleveland and moved to Oregon. There we discovered that there are a lot of racist white people. We literally were in the same situation in the church with people of a different color who called themselves Christians as well. The irony for us was too much to take and soon we were longing for home. We discovered that East Indian folk are some of the most nasty, condescending pricks on the planet. That, for me, was a real eye opener. We moved back home and we love it. We learned that all races are racist assholes and they will use any excuse to validate those feelings no matter what you do. We learned that they only people we deem fit to have in our lives are nice people who have some sense. We went from calling nasty, loud, disgusting, angry black people ‘black’ and nice, endearing, sweet, church going folk ‘persons’. We went from calling white people white to assholes or hicks and when we see that nice, smiling guy with a gentle handshake we call him ‘persons’. Call it racist. Call it what you want I don’t care. You know nothing about me.

    History. History is a great thing to use as an excuse. Too many times I have heard of the same pastor talk about how the man is keeping him down. Too many wasted hours did me and my wife sit and listen to crap nowhere near what the bible taught in church but still hearing it taught in church. History is history. I am Irish. You don’t see me want to go and kill a bunch of Brits for my races enduring enslavement. My Grandfather is British. I love him. Some will say, ‘Oh, no! It’s different. You don’t understand. Get over it. Every race practically save the folk who live in the Artic circle have been victims of slavery. Suck it up. No one cares. You will only get so far before the world comes crashing down and says, ‘Enough.’

    Lashers. Lashers lash. What else can they do?

  17. Did we have a falling out before this fight? Did the man have a right to carry? Murder, or self defense? The jury is still out. There is a reason we have a legal system, and it does help to keep lynching down. I am not part of any life/history but my own. Mobs are mobs, I don’t care what color, injustice is color blind. Men or savages? Take your pick, believe me, you do not want savages. The news media is in the business of ratings, and making news. Nothing they would love better than a good race riot. Let us not help them achieve their goal.

  18. Sdog, this is a racially charged incident perpetuated and tried in the court of public opinion by the likes of the Rev. Al Sharpton, media left, and the new black panther party. We are not bigots, but merely pointing out that Sharpton and company have clearly lost their ability to rationally evaluate this incident. Continually labeling Zimmerman as a racist does not make it so, it only exemplifies the ignorance of the speaker.

    • uhh i said GZ was a coward, not racist, nor did i call anyone “racist” with the exception of those that i named in my post, and that is not even about them directly as i do not know them, i was pointing out that their statements read that way. i have been reading this website for several years not, so this is not an “us versus them or other ttag posters vs sdog” argument, i was addressing a wider pattern i have seen since the GZ vs TM situation came to light. i also at no point in my posts was touting (go back and read them) the credentials of Rev sharpton and Jackson or the MSM. i was addressing the gross historical fallacies of conclusions and statements made earlier by individuals .

      the people that i were responding to were NOT, “merely pointing out that Sharpton and company have clearly lost their ability to rationally evaluate this incident” but devolving into thinly veiled bigoted statements. as a public forum and an ardent 2A advocate, the fact that people are trying to hijack this situation by infusing their own sociopolitical worldview unto to the actions of TM, using code words like “thug” to describe him. TM thought he was hard, and when he was challenged, beat GZ’s ass, when GZ (who granted himself authority over his neighborhood and also though he was a tough guy) responded to the fight that he initiated by trying to interrogate someone with no LEO authority, shot TM. end of story untill the court case is over as far as i am concerned. Neither of these individuals represent a “community” in any way. GZ not gun owners and TM, not all Black people. he IS NOT a representative for the Black community and is NOT A MARTYR. the same two things i think apply to GZ. this situation is being turned into something it is not:
      1.) a race war
      2.) not a political battle over 2A
      it is a court case over the actions of two individuals, not a fight of the MSM into a gun rights issue. but they have turned it into that. non white (or completely white) 2A enthusiasts are out there and i am one of them. the specific comments i was responding to is representative of a non “majority” 2A advocate’s perspective, i am not a “black community” spokesperson, nor would i want to be.
      TM is NOT emmit till. (that comparison is ridiculous)

      • “…using code words like “thug” to describe him. TM thought he was hard, and when he was challenged, beat GZ’s ass…”

        Its not a code word, and it even actually matches your description of TM. Google ‘thug definition’ what comes up at the top is:


        1. A violent person, esp. a criminal.

    • If by initiate the fight you mean getting out of his car to check things out, which foolish but not illegal then I think you are being overly broad. If you literally mean that Zimmerman through the first punch then your speculation is not supported by the facts. Martin was at a minimum a petty thief, drug user was under the influence and a particpant in underground fighting which as we all know is a gang related activity. Knowing these facts it is more than likely that Martin sized up Zimmerman and thought he could take him. The good news is that Martin was right. The bad news [for Martin] is that Zimmerman was armed. Had Martin simply beat him up I might agree with you but since he repeatedly attempted to give Zimmerman serious head trauma Zimmerman’s actions were fully justifiable. If everything about the incident remained the same except Zimmerman’s nonblackness there would be no controversy about the outcome. That is the real racist tragedy here.

      • Still waiting for you to produce even one shred of evidence that TM “through” the first punch. You be sure to take it to the DA right after you post it here too, they will want to look at it.

        I see you still refuse to believe that a man like Zimmerman, who has two charges of resisting arrest on his record, including one with battery OF THE ARRESTING OFFICER, plus the domestic violence charge, could possibly “through” the first punch. Why is that?

        • Because a drugged up gangbanger who is plays in an underground fight club is the more likely candidate.

  19. Siggh rolling my eyes again..
    Love everyone’s conclusions.. Eventually we will have all the evidence which may or may not actually answer the questions..


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