“We’re getting killed and we’re getting killed with guns that come from elsewhere and we have a vested interest and a legitimate interest in trying to protect our citizens. And we’ll do that.” – Mayor Michael Bloomberg in Guns from out-of-state make up the grand majority of city crimes, Bloomberg attempts to push back [via nydailynews.com]
How many people who commit violent crimes in the rest of the country either come from NYC or have been infected by the street ‘culture’ of NYC?
Keep your Damned criminals out of our states. We are tired of them coming and stealing our guns.
: )
That’s just almost too much awesomeness for one post!
Keep your criminals off my street and your hands of my guns.
I love it. When your laws are a failure, blame neighboring states. NY, and NYC in particular, are such effin jokes. I cannot wait to be a former resident of this damn state !
Really? Nothing coming in from ME, NH or VT?
Given the gun laws of ME, NH and VT and Bloombergs dislike of them I would have expected plenty of guns heading into NYC from them. They’re so close after all.
Let’s look at what those evil southern states have that ME, NH and VT dont.
Oh, it’s big cities with a whole lot of poor folks and gang activity.
Gang activity doesnt cross cities, does it?
Can’t make that connection though so it must be the gun laws. ME, NH and VT must have very strict gun laws then.
Excellent points.
This map could just as easily be a distribution map of illegal Mexican & South American-sourced drugs as they make their way north.
NO, it’s all the fault of Virginia, Georgia, and Tierra del Fuego.
Since when did New York City become the entire state of New York? Oh-oh…
Ask anyone from NYC, it’s always been true. 🙂
+100
Only the ones that think like Bloomberg.
They think it’s the entire world.
Most residents of NYC will tell you that upstate starts at the George Washington Bridge. Most Upstaters will say somewhere north of Westchester and Yonkers. My college roommate lives in Brooklyn. He told me years ago that Upstate starts at Wall Street…
the article states:”The most recent data available show that 90% of all guns used in city crimes in 2011 came from other states.”
yes, i’m sure that 90% of crime guns in NYC still have/had serial numbers. total BS.
Yes, same as the big lie regarding crime guns in Mexico. 89% of the guns the Mexican government sends to the US for tracing (i.e., the guns the Mexican government has good reason to believe come from the US) are in fact from the US. That ignores the fact that most crime gun in Mexico come from leaks from their own corrupt military and police, followed by other sources (Brazil and other points south, former Eastern block nations for AKs, etc.). Sure, significant numbers of US guns make it down to Mexico, even without Obama and Holder’s help, but not anywhere close to even a majority of crime guns.
How many gun manufacturers are there in NrewYork (state)? Seems to me that more than 90% of guns were made somewhere else, so OF COURSE 90% of the guns used in crimes in New York came from out of state!
You know what we call these sorts of stats? A good start.
I call it propaganda. The numbers don’t add up. Either these are only the guns they bothered tracing on the national level (Because NY has it’s own database), or the crime rate in NYC has dropped like a rock.
Every time Bloomberg opens his mouth I want to punch him in the throat.
I thought I was the only one who thought that!
I’m about to get to the point where I just laugh. The arguments are so absurd on their face. Case by case, I wonder if each leftist is crafty (pushing for power) or just stupid. With a guy like Bloomberg, who is at least smart enough to get stinking rich, I’m leaning toward evil rather than stupid.
OK… a word of advice about that: start with a punch from your waist level, and go straight out from there.
It is interesting that if you look at the census data in regards to people moving to New York from those other states, it is easy to see that all of those guns could have been brought in legitimately, and then stolen from their rightful owners within New York City. Gary Kleck does a nice job on that and other related topics in his paper:
The Myth of Big-Time Gun Trafficking and the Overinterpretation of Gun Tracing Data
Gary Kleck*
Shun-Yung Kevin Wang
http://www.uclalawreview.org/?p=100
I wonder what causes some guns to go all the way to New York to cause trouble, when most of them stay home and behave themselves.
It’s almost as if there were something about NYC that makes it attractive to the criminally-inclined.
Surely you jest. NYC is the pinnacle of human civilized achievement! Where else can you get a pizza at 3am? Not that any of my friends in NYC are brave/stupid enough to leave their apartments after midnight.
I can get a pizza at 3am 6 blocks away from my apartment, which is by all accounts as good or better than any pizza place in town, all of which serve good pizzas as well. Granted, I would have to go pick it up myself, but that’s no problem either; unlike the typical NYC delivery driver.
My sister and I don’t talk much, but I quietly thank God that she chose to leave the hellhole across the water called New Jersey and move back to Kansas. Even if she doesn’t.
I’m still trying to figure out how those guns managed not only to travel hundreds of miles by themselves but commit crimes once they got there.
It couldn’t have anything to do with the revolving door of justice NYC is proud of that give offenders as many chances as needed to embrace society and love the state.
Maybe Mikey should try banning criminals after the first incident instead of large sodas and elevators. I hope they elect Oscar Meyer Weiner as new Over Lord, they deserve it.
I like that. Snarky yet force-feeds the concept.
Well, by all means, Mr. Mayor, make it illegal to purchase anything from out of state! Solve the gun AND economic problems in one step.
Maybe set up ‘State Stores’ like PA used to have for liquor. Then you’ll know who’s buying the illegal guns, and it’ll make it easier to confiscate them when they get to the checkout counter…
Don’t give him any ideas! He’d love this one.
He’d probably try to get Cuomo to set up border posts along the roads like 95. HALT! PAPERS?! What’s in the truck/car…?
He probably would. Bloomberg and the rest of his blooming onions should get the enslaved NYC citizens (or civilians is a better word) to construct a giant communistic wall around the city so no vehicles with firearms can drive in. They can setup large bunkers at the city entrances where vehicles, property, cars, trucks, or otherwise pretty much everything is simultaneously searched for firearms and taxed. Rather than a toll road they can call it an “entrance tax with free t-shirt” They can pass out t-shirts with sandy hook victims at the entrances as well.
Here is a thought, since the only major export of NYC is garbage and it imports nearly 100% of everything else, those ‘tax and check’ points would rapidly become the ‘beg for food and please take some of this garbage with you when you leave’ points.
I actually love the idea. Somehow I think the self important attitude that so many city people seem to have would plummet when they realize that literally every single thing they need to stay alive comes from someplace that isn’t a city.
“We’re getting robbed and we’re getting robbed by people from elsewhere who come to steal our guns because they live in a slave state and can’t get their own.” -said by everyone in free states near NY.
There, fixed it.
Let me get this straight. Criminals acquired firearms in New York City from alternative “distribution channels”? That sounds exactly like standard operating procedure for criminals. Pass any laws you want … criminals will work around them. That’s what criminals do.
I wonder if they count the distributor/wholesalers when they figure where all those guns come from?
Is there a way to get our own data and do our own math?
For example, if we use Chicago or Stockton or Oakland, how many gun came from out of state? Same for Trenton, NJ and Camden, NJ — I will bet that all those cities if they bothered to even do the trace we will find that just as many guns came from out of state because criminals have a network.
Bloomberg uses these numbers to extend his agenda, but I bet that if we really look we will find that in the criminal enterprise world, this is normal. Gangs who have stolen guns or even legitimate sales have then passed them along to other gangs in other states.
I too am shocked that these crooks are stupid enough to leave serial #’s on the guns.
And in other news
“Bloomberg announced that he planned to aid two Colorado state senators who face an NRA-backed recall vote for supporting gun control in the wake of mass shootings in Aurora, Colo., and Sandy Hook, Conn.
“Yes, I’m going to give some money, because I think they’ve done what’s right for the people of Colorado,” he said.
And if the people of Colorado are too stupid to know what’s best for them, I’ll do my best to shove it down their throats anyway. That’s the way democracy works.
Only the newly arrived lib-tards who dump their happy dill-wad asses on the Front Range. Of course they’ll tell you they came for the freedom, but it’s their version of freedom, not the Code of the West [(#1) – Don’t piss off the natives; (2) Free Range – If you want my livestock off your property, then you build a fence; (3) If you really don’t know what you’re talking about, then STFU]
Come across the Divide to the Western Slope and act like an ignorant immigrant, and we’ll send you packin’.
Interesting that the Bloomberg-Hickenbitch connection would be so transparent about their ways.
I don’t understand how 322 firearms could have come from Virginia…my home state! I just don’t understand how that is possible. I mean, where I live in Northern Virginia, it has been my observations that gun owners get their guns through FFLs. Also, many gun owners I know who have sold their guns to strangers went through their local FFLs just to be sure. I would really appreciate it if someone could tell me where all these guns are coming from in Virginia. I find it very disgusting that my State is the highest source of guns used in crimes in NYC.
Unless you dig into the stats, you have no idea. Some of these guns could have been stolen 10yrs ago and are now just showing up. Also, just because it traced to VA, what does that mean? It could have been originally sold in CA. This was for the most part, big numbers so the mayor could have a press conference. It is for shock purpose, we have no idea of details.
I am not sure how they have 2011 data, as the ATF hasn’t posted that yet, but basically Bloomberg gets his data from reports like this: http://www.atf.gov/files/statistics/download/trace-data/2009/2009-trace-data-new-york-nyc.pdf
Note that each and every one of these trace reports has the disclaimer (required by law):
“(1) Firearm traces are designed to assist law enforcement authorities in conducting investigations by tracking the sale and possession of specific firearms. Law enforcement agencies may request firearms traces for any reason, and those reasons are not necessarily reported to the Federal Government. Not all firearms used in crime are traced and not all firearms traced are used in crime.
“(2) Firearms selected for tracing are not chosen for purposes of determining which types, makes or models of firearms are used for illicit purposes. The firearms selected do not constitute a random sample and should not be considered representative of the larger universe of all firearms used by criminals, or any subset of that universe. Firearms are normally traced to the first retail seller, and sources reported for firearms traced do not necessarily represent the sources or methods by which firearms in general are acquired for use in crime.”
Note that the only ‘crime’ the VAST majority of these firearms were guilty of was ‘illegal possession’. In other words, not being registered or permitted. Possibly otherwise completely legal. Possibly purchased legally in a person’s home state and brought with them when they (foolishly) moved to NYC.
Note that the largest single-source for traced firearms in NYC was New York State (they erased that number from their version of the graphic).
Note that the vast majority of the weapons were purchased more than 3 years before they were traced. Oddly enough this particular report doesn’t give “average time to ‘crime'” but it is typically in the range of 11-13 years.
@LegitimateSportsmen — Thank you for sharing that information and observations. This helps me understand it better.
For whatever reason, Virginia has always been really high on the list of NYC gun sources. That’s one of the big reasons you had your one-gun-a-month law for a couple decades. You know, the one that was repealed in February of last year, because nobody could demonstrate that it was making any difference?
Since I am bothered about this I did some research after reading @LegitimateSportsmen’s reply to my original comment. Here’s what I found on the ATF’s website about tracing data in NY (I could not find the specific data for NYC):
2012 NY State Tracing Data: https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/statistics/tracedata-2012/2012-trace-data-new-york.pdf
2011 NY State Tracing Data: http://www.atf.gov/files/statistics/download/trace-data/2011/2011-trace-data-new-york.pdf
Here’s the ATF’s Tracing Data main webpage with each state and international country: http://www.atf.gov/statistics/index.html
I feel better knowing that a majority of the so-called crimes that occurred in NY were mainly just possession a gun opposed to “killing” people as Mayor Bloomberg says.
If you are interested in further reading on the subject I would recommend:
The Myth of Big-Time Gun Trafficking and the Overinterpretation of Gun Tracing Data
Gary Kleck*
Shun-Yung Kevin Wang
http://www.uclalawreview.org/?p=100
You can stop being disgusted that the majority of NYC ‘crime guns’ come from Virginia. Since the vast majority of ‘crime guns’ (who defines this stuff anyway) have been stolen from their lawful owners (their first step in crime I suppose) it only means that either someone in Virginia stole them then took them to NYC (where cheap guns are worth a fortune) or that a criminal gang actually traveled to Va to steal guns (which sounds absurd but isn’t considering the value of the weapons in NYC).
How about we wall off NYC physically and virtually so the people there are safe from us heathens?
You’d have to reroute 95. Other than that, I think all sides would be happy with that arraignment. Bloomberg and Weeny get their own little fort, we get it sealed in.
How about we make the rest of the US safe from NYC-produced fraudulent mortgage securitizations?
And make it a maximum-security prison? (Loved that movie…)
Where did he think they would come from? If you can’t buy guns in NYC, they just won’t buy guns? How about if Bloomy seals the borders, and his mouth. NYC has nothing that the rest of the country is interested in.
Something is amiss though. If I buy a gun serial number 001 in TX, there is no national registry (and it’s illegal to create one), and there is no TX registry. The only place that number is legally supposed to be recorded is in the FFLs book. AND the ATF can’t even look at those books except in the investigation of a crime. AND there are thousands of them, maybe hundreds of thousands in TX. Someone went through them all with a list of NYC crime gun serial numbers to see if anything matched? I’d say this is proof positive that NICS is keeping an illegal registry.
When the cops recover a ‘crime gun’ or have a ‘firearm under investigation’ they request a trace from the ATF. They give the ATF the serial number of the firearm as well as a general description (make, model etc.). The ATF then queries the manufacturer about that serial number, the manufacturer (if still in business) gives the ATF the name of the distributor the firearm went to, and/or the FFL dealer. They then send an agent to the FFL dealer to copy the bound book… er the appropriate page of the bound book. They then give the results to the law enforcement agency that requested the trace and enter all the information into the etrace database (which the ATF does not consider to be a registry).
http://www.atf.gov/publications/factsheets/factsheet-national-tracing-center.html
I never knew it was against the law to take legally purchased goods from one state to another as long as those goods are not illegal in the state you are moving the good to.
The food industry should refuse to ship to NY on the grounds food may cause obesity.
I was going to comment that I bet *all* of NYC’s food comes from out of state as well.
Hey Bloomy’ then allow them to arm themselves, like you and your flunkies are.
There ya have it, problem solved.
We’re getting killed and we’re getting killed by our own people and we have a vested interest and a legitimate interest in trying to protect our citizens. And we’ll do that.” – Mayor Michael Bloomberg
Fixed it Mike, now actually do something about the vermin.
This is actually a great argument AGAINST gun control as it demonstrates the reality that you can ban things all you want, but illegal property will always be smuggled in. Even if they banned guns in the whole country, they would still come in from the outside like an open river since we can’t even put up a fence on the boarder much less control passage across it. Again, proving the old adage that if you ban guns, then only criminals will have them. I know that the government will have them too, but the distinction between criminals and government is becoming more and more a matter of theory rather than reality.
bloombutt’s solution to gun violence? make our law abiding citizens as vulnerable as possible… stroke of genius right there.
wow! why did the ttag site change appearances? i like the old way better.
Yet all of the incentive to produce those murders is manufactured in state.
My fellow TTAGers, I’m pleased to tell you today that I’ve signed legislation that will outlaw NYC forever. We begin bombing in 5 minutes.
FYI for the humor-impared:
http://en.wikipedia.org/we_begin_bombing_in_five_minutes
Would that it were so.
“We’re getting killed, and killed by CARS from out of state.”
Yeah, and what’s your point exactly? Have Texas stop selling cars?
I knew a girl from NYC, she assumed that everyone in Texas rode horses, some people
NYC – as pretty much everywhere else with a Mayor Against Illegal Guns – doesn’t have a gun problem, it has a hip hop culture that can’t control itself problem. The approximately 50% of their city that’s white or asian committed 2.7% of all their shootings, 4.7% of their robberies, etc. by NYPD statistics last year.
Bloomberg is in a tough spot. He’s not allowed to so much as tangentially acknowledge what it is he’s trying to solve. Probably not even to himself. Thus attacking crime without admitting what it is means blindly treating all New Yorkers like criminals. Cameras and police everywhere, random pat downs of people you know aren’t suspects etc. Whites and asians commited 2.7% of NYC shootings but were the subject of 12.8% of NYC stop and frisks fishing for guns. Hooray for equality, and all that jazz.
Which actually worked pretty well in terms of cutting the crime rate. If he could expand it outside of NYC to better keep his dependent delinquents unarmed it would keep some guns out, and would drop even further.
If that means walking all over the rights of civilized people from other states who have never set foot in NYC, that’s a price he’s more than willing (for us) to pay. Limiting criminal treatment to actual criminals would be racist.
I just saw another blog post about this a few days ago:
http://gunfreezone.net/wordpress/index.php/2013/07/31/dear-mayor-bloomberg-why-out-of-state-guns/
Looks like somebody’s map is a little misleading.
Nice, thanks for that.
Red Herring, or rather self driving statistic. The tighter a state’s gun laws are, the more they will be able to cry that the guns used there come from out of state.
Here in Minnesota, 100% of our bottle rocket related injuries are caused by bottle rockets bought out of state. Shocking. Unless you know that you can’t sell bottle rockets in Minnesota.
So…it sounds like you have a people problem, not a gun problem. What are you doing about the people?
Your city is infested with people who refuse to obey your city/state laws on gun possession (which are f’ing stupid BTW) and the nation’s laws on shooting other people and committing crimes with firearms, and it’s the inanimate object that’s at fault?
People this dumb should be easier to defeat.
Few Law Abiders have guns in NYC so there are fewer to steal. Duh.
Have a gang problem, guns will come, Drug turf to protect, guns will come, robbn’ and muggn’ guns will come.
Here’s the bloombag logic:
During a construction boom, hammers come in from out of state.
I got an Idea, bring truck load of hammers to a community and houses will spontaniously will start to be built, tools generate the activity, right?
Just leave it to ‘Der Fuhrer’ Bloomberg to attempt to blame others
Let’s keep up the good work, fellow Virginians.
Blame blame lie, misdirect, lie, blame.
Yup sounds about right.
Let me get this straight…the same ATF that couldn’t trace 2000 guns for 100 miles on either side of the border, is to be trusted to give a complete picture of crime guns in NYC? Boy, that would be a real stretch.
Cocaine is illegal in every state in the country, and illegal by federal law. All cocaine in New York comes from outside the state/country. Doesn’t seem to stop it from arriving in your little ‘Heaven on the Hudson’ there, does it, Mikey?
Why do we not make a Constitutional Amendment making murder, of any kind, illegal?
That would make the laws so much more simple to enforce, whether it be murder by firearm, edged blade, fist, car, hammer, baseball bat, etc…
Let’s see… You ban/restrict guns and then wonder why there is a black-market trade and influx of guns from other places. There is still a demand and no supply. They are being imported by the black market. Now let’s compare these routes of gun travel to routes of drug travel. I bet there is a pretty good correlation.
I bet if you restricted the sale of apples, you would see a black market develop. People want their pies and old people and kids want their applesauce.
Look how well banning drugs has worked.
Don’t knock the pizza. Every one I’ve had there has been superb, and a hot dog from a street vendor? I don’t know what it is, but I’ve never had a hot dog I enjoyed more than one from the streets of Manhattan. Same goes for your half-smokes.
But if it’s a cheese steak you’re after, you have to go 100 miles to the south.
So all these guns coming from other states into yours because those other states have such lax laws controlling the guns. If those other states have such lax laws they must have considerably more violence as well, so much so that the murders and rapists can’t find victims so they are forced to go to other states to maintain their line of work.
/sarc
Sounds to me like there’s only 1 answer to NYCs problem of foreign guns coming in and causing so much trouble. New yorkers are going to have to insist on their right to keep and bear arms so they can defend themselves. If kapo bloomberg doesnt approve I’m sure New Yorkers can find a length of rope and a lamp post.
No offense JWM, but it seems to me they actually in fact can’t find a piece of rope and a lamppost. Or perhaps more accurately they don’t know when to utilize these items.
As a citizen of the great State of Georgia, I’m proud we’re #5 on your list Bloomie. We got PLENTY of guns down here, more than enough to spare a few for your slaves…er…I mean…citizens.
I’ve always considered it a duty to care for those less fortunate. I stand ready to arm several fellow citizens should the need arise. The need has been about in NYC for a very long time, and now the rest of the state too. However, given that moving away from the madness is still legal I’ll require that they come to me. If you live in NYC and you’re good with that. . . wow, just wow. Just as a thought, if you moved to my state (Ohio) I could just give you a gun. No permit, no background check, no government, no license no cops. I could really just open the safe and give you a freaking real live honest to god AR-15 with a vertical fore grip, collapsible stock, a red dot sight and a bag full of loaded magazines. Not a single law would be broken and no one state or federal even needs to know it happened.
When you’re done considering that tell me how you’re into guns but still live in NYC.
This looks suspiciously like the prohibition on alcohol (failed and admitted) and the prohibition on drugs (failed and seemingly never to be admitted). It turns out that where a supply exists and a market exists the two will get together no matter what laws you pass.
While it’s clearly absurd hyperbole just imagine for a moment if the selling of arms were halted nation wide in the US. Based on the Cocaine model the price of arms would escalate dramatically here, and the so called Iron River would reverse direction.
1 Kg of cocaine is worth about USD $100 in Columbia, and about $100,000 in the US. Those sorts of profit margins ensure that each of us is less than a few minutes to an hours drive from someone who would sell us cocaine (albeit at very high markups).
Using the same pattern, if an AK-47 is worth $8 in Peshwar (on the Afghan/Pakistan border), and worth $8000 in the US, we’d have full auto AK’s available within an hours drive of 95% of the population. It’s simple supply/demand economics. You couldn’t stop it with a law, enhanced enforcement, draconian sentencing or even a nuclear bomb.
That much profit will motivate people to break the law regardless of consequence. The sooner we realize it, the better.
Evil, creepy, libtard (democrat) bastard Bloomberg.