“Nowhere else in the world do the laws on firearms become the playthings of politicians and lobbyists intent on manufacturing cultural conflict. Nowhere else do elected officials turn the matter of taking a gun to church into a searing ideological question. But then, guns are not a religion in most countries.” – E.J. Dionne in The gun supremacists’ folly [at washingtonpost.com]
Home Quote of the Day Quote of the Day: Let Us Pray Edition
Guns are not a religion in this country either. They are a fundamental right, protected by the Constitution. The same right, by the way, that protects your freedom to put your ignorance on display to the world.
This is a SLY quote.
Even if guns were a religion, they would be protected by our laws. So, what the guy has done is quietly stuck in the idea that because they’re a religion, they can be attacked.
It may not have been on purpose, but the bastard is advocating an attack on religion.
Exactly right, If guns were a true religion, I bet it would be much harder for them to directly after firearms. Its much easier to make us appear like zealots.
I totally got the same feeling you did about religion, apparently he doesn’t really like the 1A or 2A.
Atheists think all religious people have a psychosis, therefore by claiming gun ownership is a religion, he is saying that they are all crazy.
He wasn’t the first to equate guns with religion.
“They cling to their Bibles and their guns” President of the United States Barack Hussein Obama
@ Michael in GA
The funny thing about atheism, is that it’s the biggest and most evangelical religion going these days.
How very true. Mohammadism being the 2nd largest. Both driven by the buring white hot passion of the newly converted.
Logic, calm, common sense, and the law all are irrelevant.
You three have no idea how hilariously ignorant and stereotypical you sound.
Do tell. We’re all ears. Educate us on the ways of stereotypes and hilarity.
I guess he is advocating for the idea of “zones” where people are allowed to practice their constitutionally enumerated rights, to the exclusion of other places? No prayer outside of your church, no free speech outside of “free speech zones”, no bearing arms except where government says it is ok, etc? It is bad enough that people are required to get a license to exercise a right.
You know what? He is partially correct. Guns are somewhat of a religion in the US. The thing is, he’s too stupid (or intellectually dishonest) to realize WHY: people tend to get sort of religious about something they value when constantly persecuted because of it.
Perhaps if his type were not constantly attacking gun owners, trying to strip us of our rights one bite at a time, we wouldn’t be so “religious” about protecting that right.
Very well-said, sir!
Protecting and exercising my right as a free individual to keep and bear arms is the moral thing for me to do. Fighting against tyranny is the moral thing for me to do. Therefore, it’s very much a part of my religious view.
I agree that guns are not religion. I think a pretty decent argument could be made that gun control IS.
The antis worship at the altar of “perceived safety” and Bloomie just tossed $50M in the offering plate to assure his place in paradise.
“The antis worship at the altar of “perceived safety” “
I would say they worship at the alter of “The Infallible State.”
The perception of safety is a sacrament provided by the State that through laws will protect them.
There are other sacraments; public education, progressive taxation, control of the media (public discourse).
Shoot. I just described Communism as laid out by Marx and Engels.
I just described Communism as laid out by Marx and Engels.
Yes… yes you did. 🙂
I was only commenting on the smaller subtext of anti-gun folks. In the larger sphere, they’re like the ancient Romans and Greeks – dozens, if not hundreds, of deities, to worship.
I thought all countries turned guns into politics? Britain, Canada, the Nazis, Australia, and everywhere else?
See, the left can’t even use Google…
Will ignorance ever cease? These people need to realize that our RTKaBA is what keeps them free to spout their stupidity.
That said, they should stop spouting their stupidity.
Willful ignorance will never cease. There’s no winning “hearts and minds” when they already know and have an agenda. 😉
Ignorance is one thing, stupidity is another. Then there is evil.
Most elitists are not ignorant. They know the facts that they are ignoring. They do it out of stupidity or they have an agenda that is either evil or will allow evil to destroy.
I agree. I’m betting that evil is the most accurate answer. Very few in their camp could have even a cursory knowledge of history and not know that an armed people cannot be subjugated and annihilated. To destroy a people you must disarm them first. They have to know that as it’s common sense and history demonstrates this repeatedly.
Oop, there it is.
Removing a sheep dog’s teeth and claws will not protect the sheep. It protects the wolves.
You might not have thought that the inability of people to pack while praying was a big problem.
Yup, no violence in a church. Not ever. No sir.
February 14, 2010 – Richmond, California
March 8, 2009 – Maryville, Illinois
July 27, 2008 – Knoxville, Tennessee
Dec. 9, 2007 – Colorado
May 20, 2007 – Moscow, Idaho
Aug. 12, 2007 – Neosho, Missouri
May 21, 2006 – Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Feb. 26, 2006 – Detroit, Michigan
April 9, 2005 – College Park, Georgia
March 12, 2005 – Brookfield, Wisconsin
July 30, 2005 – College Park, Georgia
Dec. 17, 2004, Garden Grove, Calif
Oct. 5, 2003 – Atlanta, Georgia
June 10, 2002 – Conception, Missouri
March 12, 2002 – Lynbrook, New York
May 18, 2001 – Hopkinsville, Kentucky
Sept. 15, 1999 – Fort Worth, Texas
April 15, 1999 – Salt Lake City, Utah
In addition to PiersonB’s fine contribution, http://www.carlchinn.com has a breakdown of all the different kinds of violence that occurs annually in churches, synagogues, temples , mosques, etc.
I train armed security teams for churches. Part of that is teaching that Jesus and the Bible do NOT forbid self-defense. instead, God commands us to help the innocent in danger.
I was at International House of Prayer – Kansas City this week. Guess what they had? Armed security. And not outsourced, these were young men on the staff who’s ministry assignment was security. They were charged with and invested in the protection of their fellow parishioners, and they took it seriously. They recognize that they are situated in an area that has a history of urban violence, and they took steps to combat this. They’re heavily involved in outreach and social justice (prevention / intervention to reverse the trend of crime) but also took the step to defend themselves from those who would seek to do them harm in the moment.
I applaud them for this, and wish it happened more often.
Any advice on how to broach the topic with the powers that be at a church?
No idea, never had to deal with the topic personally.
If one can approach their church family with personal sins one is battling but stumbles at approaching that same family with something like self defense… I would be examining if I were in the right church for me. That aside, basically, I approach things directly so I would directly approach the church. Something like: Self defense is not sin and I want to be able to defend myself, should the need arise, during worship (to and from as well). My sidearm is an important part of who I am and I am being true to myself before my G_d.
If you have friends on church council/parish vestry, I’d suggest approaching them.
PiersonB, you could start with several books. “Evil Invades Sanctuary”, by Carl Chinn. “Keeping Your Church Safe,” by Ron Aguiar. For the theological argument, my book, “A Time To Kill: The Myth of Christian Pacifism”, By Greg Hopkins. All are available on Amazon.
Thank-you for posting that list. Admittedly, I had not realized it was that long.
I keep certain interesting reference materials on hand just waiting for the right moment 😉
One wonders whether EJ really believes the nonsense he writes. The Georgia bill creates conditions that are no different than those that exist across the Potomac in Virginia. Northern Virginia may be the safest heavily urbanized area in the United States.
Unfortunately, the voters in NoVA want to turn it into a disaster like Maryland or the District. The only reason we have shall issue concealed carry is because ROVA keeps us from going full retard, and that may not hold for long. Heck, the chief of police in my town is on record about Virginia’s gun registry… which we don’t have.
Yes, but the high concentration of retards in Northern Virginia insures that the House of Delgates stays pro Second Amendment. And let’s not forget that TMAC is already considered a loser insuring that we will have a Republican governor four years from now.
Lol, it sounds to me like if that day should come about where Virginia ends up going full retard, you should then be able to just turn around and tell them, “oh it’s ALREADY registered” in a virtual “I already gave at the office” sense.
Sorry, what I meant to say was: Gunz, this is no laughing matter. Sometimes my Irony and sarcasm gets the better of me.
Guns do have a philosophy and codified system around them complete with “rituals”, so guns could be considered a religion. Unfortunately there are many religions under this definition, from sex, to TV, to politics, to Monday Night Football. There are many influences each person holds true in their daily lives that could be considered a religion, the problem here is E.J. Dionne never establishes why that could be considered negative, he really only insinuates guns don’t belong in an ideological frame, but free firearm ownership is an ideological matter. Not having guns as a “religion” is the same as not having American Football as a “religion”, it’s replaced with another “religion” that fills that space, whether that be a subject mentality or another change in behavior.
One useful concept in defining religion is a basis in faith. Whereas a scientific hypothesis can be proven incorrect by empirically-verifiable facts, an article of faith cannot. Considering that the core arguments of gun control (in particular, the key assertion that more guns means more crime) have been proven incorrect, which side of the gun control debate more closely resembles religious belief?
Some religions (or worldviews we consider to be legitimate religions) are not faith-based, like Shinto. These are action-based, so rituals and influence on worldviews and daily activity are considered a measure of religion, the “cultural system” definition. This of course opens up the definition so many things can be defined as a religion. My carrying every day is a part of a “religion”, just as someone watching every football, hockey, or baseball game is also participating in a “religion”. This is a natural way of life and has been since the beginning of human existence. Moreover, thinking about this topic in a holistic manner using the statistics we have should be commended by the intellectuals, but they don’t like competition so EJ disdains it in this case.
Good old EJ is arguing against human nature without any clear reason as to why it’s negative and why his position is more positive, he’s really just complaining and fear-mongering in a pseudo-intellectual round-about way.
Since faith involves making a decision based on available evidence, but never being able to have 100 percent assurance, the pro-gun side is more faith based. The anti’s rely on fantasy. They can’t even call it blind faith, since their concepts have been shown false so often.
God made man, but Samuel Colt made them equal.
It is appropriate for gun fetishists to bring their male prosthetic genitalia to their houses of worship, as all gun owners are evil and don’t believe in our One True Lord, Michael Bloomberg and his 35 disciples.
Wait, Everytown, what about Chicago Jesus?
Ok, you’ve finally crossed the line. 35 disciples??? WAY too much credit given there. 😉
They were well paid to be disciples….don’t take that away from them.
so when does the midget billionaire take his walk to damascus? No, I mean literally. I would love to see him walk to Damscus given recent activity. let’s see if his no guns BS sells there.
But then, most countries are much worse tyrannies than even the USA.
Fine, it’s a religion. I go to the house of worship (the range) on sunday’s to make an offering of lead and brass.
Now gimme some of that 1st amendment protection to go with those afforded by the 2nd.
Quite truthfully, I’d rather be at the range thinking about church than the other way around.
Nothing precludes a sermon on the range. 😉
I pay excise and sales tax on any guns or ammo I buy. Please let me know where I can apply for my religion exemption.
or my deduction from my taxes for charitable contributions
Yes, E.J., I agree. When your cohorts on the left stop ‘manufacturing cultural conflict’ by attempting to trample on our rights and blame those who generally aren’t their constituents (gun owners) for violence occurring among their constituents (urban youth), maybe the conflict will die.
By the same token, those on the right AND left can help stop manufacturing cultural violence by rolling back the war on drugs.
“Nowhere else in the world”? So, his book is meant to point out how all other countries should emulate our “guns as religion” culture in order to have a chance to be as successful as America? Is that what his book is about?
God needs the devil to validate his existence. Gun owners and 2A supporters don’t rely on the same blind faith to validate their needs.
So far, my sight has not completely failed. I see the evidence of God in my life, so it is not blind, and I still can shoot accurately and read the Second Amendment, so I am not blind there either. Maybe you need to get your eyes checked (spiritual and physical eyes that is).
I pray to God for safety but depend on high velocity lead.
Lord, I am your good and faithful servant. I am not ready to die, but Lord, if it is your will and it is my time to die, I pray Lord they find my body in a pile of brass.
Oh, that is good. Writing that one down.
What? It is perfectly normal to write down material you are not very likely to use.
Pile of brass? So no Brown Bear for you.
Those damn newsies, they just worship at the altar of journalism. Those bastards turned writing into an ideological fight.
Who gives a damn if you say no to police searching your house? “Woooo, my house is a castle, look at me!” Get over yourselves. The government has a public safety interest in being able to search a person’s home at any time in order to pursue justice and ensure domestic tranquility. No other country is as fanatical about this castle silliness.
Waiting for the first vitriolic reply from someone lacking sarcasm filters.
I almost fell into it. My response wasn’t vitriolic but it was to be based on the fact that the preamble doesn’t confer additional powers (also affirmed by SCOTUS) and then something or another about tyranny. Thankfully, I saw your comment before writing. 😀
Almost did that the first time he (she?) posted, but then I clicked the link in the user name and got a good chortle out of it.
There’s a link???
I think he’s mixing up my trolling with Everytown’s satire. It can be hard to keep track. 😀
Also, this is the proper usage of “trolling”, i.e. Trying to get a rise out of people for the lulz. And maybe a little proving a point. But mostly lulz.
Yep, I have been known to troll other, non-political places. Always for the lulz, anon, always for the lulz.
Thank goodness for tor…
Yeah, I was confusing Everytown. That’s what I get for trying to keep up with 6 conversations at the same time.
Ssshhhh, you’re ruining my fun. :p
Mi casa su casa!
Just don’t tell me that the rent is due on “su casa.”
Several churches which had been experiencing a fall off of Sunday attendance, started offering tickets to win a hand gun and all tickets would be kept for a chance to win a rifle at the end of period of time. Word got out quickly. Not only the members that had become slack in attending Sunday services were now in attendance, but the congregations were filled with new comers each week.
My advice to pastors, deacon boards, elders, and other church leaders….embrace this new law or the laws in your state which honor the Second Amendment. Work with a local or regional gun shop and offer a handgun as a “door” or “seat” prize, and a rifle as a grand prize. Advertise on signs in front the church, in all advertising available and put it in the “Community News” of the local radio, TV, and newspapers.
This may become a tradition to many churches as treasured as “dinner on the grounds.”
They very much had been winning for a long time and I can’t honestly say that they are necessarily losing even now. How many POTG today actually support the right to keep and bear arms rather than just a privilege to bear arms under government license? How many POTG today cringe and even argue against the plain meaning of shall not be infringed? How many POTG today use similar emotional argument and even outright lies to argue against the plain meaning of shall not be infringed?
n’t changed them… they’re making the same arguments since at least the 1970s. They’ve changed some of us. We haveLet’s see that last one make itself known in responses to this comment. 😉
Missed the edit submission by a millisecond. The last paragraph should’ve read:
We haven’t changed them… they have been making the same arguments since at least the 1970s. They’ve changed some of us. Let’s see that last one (in first and second paragraphs) make itself known in responses to this comment.
I am organizing a shooting team at my church. But then again, my pastor has received death threats so he is happy I, and a number of others, carry. It is for the children(TM).
The Church of the Bang Switch, dont forget to bring your .22 LR donation this week 🙂
I really am confused by how these “intellectuals” choose to cherry pick history and look at us, The American People and America itself, like we werent created and forged with fire and musket by some dudes who would have certainly been hanged or be-headed as traitors had the outcome been different.
Then again, the victor writes his own history, I guess that means the antis who believe theyre winning will just keep on lying as they perpetrate their false truths.
Maybe theyll just keep on lying anyway, who knows 🙂
They will continue. There’s little risk and much potential gain in their lies. Remember, they only give lip service to this “reasonable discussion” slogan. They want control by any means. Lies serve that purpose.
They come from the same stock as spoiled children who grew up to be angry at their parents. They don’t have the sense to be grateful, nor the capacity to stand on their own merits. They have to rely on tearing down what came before them so that they don’t have to be measured on the same standard of greatness. If you make what was once great the enemy, and then define greatness around your own opinions, you can turn your participation trophy into a blue ribbon and very few people will notice.
In North Korea the state is the religion and Kim Jong Un is their god. While I don’t revere my guns like religious icons, if having them is a religion I’ll stick with the one I’ve got.
Only a god would have the balls to wear such a shitty haircut.
True, because in nearly all other places in the world the ruling class has resolved the issue in its favor. The searing and questioning will continue here until the ruling class gets what it wants. Then the question will be officially closed and further questioning will not be tolerated.
Ironically, strict adherence to the 2A (not infringing on the RKBA) is the only way to avoid having “the laws on firearms become the playthings of politicians and lobbyists intent on manufacturing cultural conflict.”
Our forefathers deliberately took this issue out of the field of politics. It should have remained there.
^^^ This ^^^
RF? Is it considered “flaming” if I tell this f**king a$$hole to eat s**t and die?
It’s okay if you do it for the children.
“The creativity of the National Rifle Association and other organizations devoted to establishing conditions in which every man, woman and child in our nation will have to be armed is awe-inspiring.”
Here he’s trying to scare people. “I would have to have a gun, NEVER!”, “guns in the hands of children!” As it stands the Constitution already outlines every male above the age of 13 must own and know how to maintain and operate a firearm, but they like to use the “militia clause” to ignore that tradition.
“Maybe the Georgia legislature will help them by requiring a rewrite of the Scriptures. ‘Blessed are the peacemakers’ can become ‘Blessed are the gun owners.”
The peacemakers are the gun owners. It doesn’t say “blessed are the victims.” Peace-making is an action, not a wish.
Although he doesn’t really do a good job of connecting religion with guns. He just says, “look, guns and churches, it’s an religion and it’s ideologically-based”.
But this is the best: “In the meantime, the nation’s unarmed majority might ponder how badly we have failed in asserting our own rights.”
No enumerated rights that appear in the Constitution are mentioned or even listed in the article there. Just the implication of the “wishes” they continually call rights. The entire article depends on implications, misleadingly vague statements and even vaguer associations, nothing concrete or systematic.
Stupid remark by that guy.
And, by the way, if your church’s plan to win a hearing for the Gospel is via bribing people to show up by offering door prizes, your church has bigger problems than gun issues.
Oh look, a passing troll.
Alright, I’ll bite. Let’s say you recognize your church has big problems with attendance, and you’re getting no new converts. If it gets new butts on pews, why is a gun raffle a worse solution than others? Giving a gun away may be the solution to the ‘bigger problem’ you describe, sir.
I know it’s easier to be cynical than it is to be constructive, but there’s no reason to call a raffle a bribe any more than there is a reason to call a promise of eternal salvation a bribe. If you can turn someone’s materialism into attending a service, you have a chance to reach them and help them.
I don’t really see a problem UNLESS there’s a “you must be present to win” in there. In that case it’s a bribe. Otherwise the raffle just brought them in, it’s up to the message to get them to stay.
What a disgustingly slanted, ignorant article – obviously expressing his own personal uber-liberal, hoplophobic ideology in no uncertain terms.
“Blessed are the peacemakers” can become “Blessed are the gun owners.”
– WE are the peacemakers, EJ.
OH, and pretty much all of these same laws (carrying in bars, etc) have been in place in many states including PA for a long time and I don’t see PA turning into the wild west.
These guys just feed off their own propaganda and end up caught in a bubble of their own lies and misperceptions.
The Russians just have to be sitting back and laughing at what a nation of panzies we are becoming.
My view, as someone completely unchurched, is that the Georgia law simply allows each congregation to do what it feels like, without the government imposing a decision on them. If for whatever reason, they want to be “gun-free”, they can post the signs and be done with it. If they want to allow congregants to carry, they can allow that.
Sounds kinda like a win for the First Amendment in addition to the Second.
Shhhh. Stop making sense. It scares them.
This whole “everyone HAS to be armed” crap is just that…strawman crap. The truly scary thing is that they believe others will fall into it.
The even scarier thing is that others WILL fall into…”OMG! The Law in Georgia says I HAS to own a gun? The NRA is lobbying for FORCE me to be armed?”
Yeah. I can well imagine the shrill panic from the readers of this article that checked their critical thinking skills at the door when they entered The First Grade.
By putting support for the Second Amendment in the same category as religion, they are trying to delegitimize it…. These smug pricks condescend about religion because they see it as irrational superstition and see themselves as enlightened and above it, intellectually.
I know, the irony….
No, in most countries guns are used to commit genocide, destroy people’s basic human rights and to suppress their freedoms so a very small number of people can be rich and powerful. It never ceases to amaze me that some people are just so clueless about the world we live in.
I didn’t realize that “most countries” suffered from genocide. Also, you forgot step one in using guns to commit genocide, which is to disarm the ones you want to kill. Now do you get it? So long as the general populace can be armed, the problems you allude to are avoided. You are actually describing the affects of disarmament.
Nope, not clueless. Leftards know precisely what they are doing.
Tell us what you really think rev. My sons were saved( I know Lutherans don’t use that word) when a Power Team came to our church. If people come to church to win a gun GREAT.
Whatever it takes to hear about Jesus. Do folks flock to your church to hear you Paul?
No, they do not flock to our congregation to hear me, but to hear the Word of Life as received from the Good Shepherd, Christ Jesus our Lord.
And we do not give out door prizes to bribe people to show up.
Flash-in-the-pan revivalists come and go, the Church keeps giving out Christ’s gifts of forgiveness, life and salvation through His Word and Sacraments, as we have been doing since around 33 A.D. or so.
Back in 33 AD a preacher had to get them in the door, too, in order to spread the Word. Many will come for the free stuff, some will stay for the Salvation, and that is as it has always been.
Crass? Yea. Still it aids in spreading the Gospel, and in the final measure that is what it is about.
So, when do we get this “eternal life” stuff? In the 2000 years or so since Jesus preached “turn the other cheek,” has every single person failed to be good enough, or righteous enough, or whatever enough, to get the brass ring of eternal life? The longest I’ve ever heard of anybody making it is in the 120-year range, and if I recall correctly, that person wasn’t even a Christian!
Sorry, I just can’t hypnotize myself into believing that becoming a corpse is a step on the path to eternal life.
And what does Jesus have to do with the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms anyway?
You know, right, that there are some churches who consider Lutherans to be “flash-in-the-pan revivalists”. 😛
Spot on, however, with the “the Church endures forever” sentiment.
I wish guns were actually a religion, then they would be better protected.
And, the tax exception couldn’t hurt either.
As Instapundit posted yesterday… “E.J. Dionne? You mean he’s STILL writing?!?”
Freedom is our Worship Word, guns are merely tools for its exercise, like the Menorah, or the priest’s aspergillum, or a Methodist Hymnal.
Yes, I googled “what’s that wand that priests sprinkle water with?” to find that word. 😉
I thought that was a toxin that made peanuts deadly!
Amen, brother Grise!
Couldn’t we get something together through ULC? Sikhism has the kirpan as one of the five articles of faith that must be worn at all times. They’ve won some court cases over the wearing of kirpans as well.
Several court cases in the US have addressed the legality of wearing a kirpan in public. Courts in New York and Ohio have ruled that banning the wearing of a kirpan is unconstitutional. In New York City, a compromise was reached with the Board of Education whereby the wearing of the knives was allowed so long as they were secured within the sheaths with adhesives and made impossible to draw. In recent years, the Sikh practice of wearing a Kirpan has caused problems for security personnel at airports and other checkpoints; security personnel may confiscate kirpans if they feel it is necessary, but are advised to treat them with respect. Sikh leaders chose not to attend an 17 April 2008 interfaith meeting with Pope Benedict XVI at the Pope John Paul II Cultural Center in Washington, DC, rather than remove the kirpan.
+a huge number for using “Aspergillum”.
I looked it up. Somebody mentioned something about a fungus, and I realized that I had thought the same thing, so I’ve looked it up:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not to be confused with Aspergillus."
Oh, yet Another WaPo Professional Anti-Civil Rights Editorial Opinionist venting for dollars. Not worth the waste of cycles.
If you were to look up “effete” and “pedant” in the dictionary, you’d find a picture of EJ Dionne by both.