Quote of the Day: In Your Dreams, Garden State Edition

Concealed carry (courtesy forums.1911forum.com)

“The Legislature, therefore, declares that it is altogether fitting and proper, and within the public interest, to revise the statutes of this State governing the issuance of permits to carry handguns by enacting the provisions of this act, the “Crime Reduction Act,” so that the law-abiding citizens of this State may exercise their natural and unalienable rights to provide for the defense, protection and safety of their families, property, and themselves by carrying a handgun, if they so choose.” – New Jersey Senate Bill 1287 [h/t SS]


  1. avatar Gs650g says:

    And then the alarm clock went off and I was late for work.

    1. avatar CGinTX says:

      …AND they realized that their attention to detail was lacking, since it’s not the “Crime Reduction Act” but rather the “Citizen Protection Act.” Awkward to get it wrong in your very own act. But, hey, it’s New Jersey.

      1. avatar Stu Chisholm says:

        Not to mention that the above paragraph is actually one massive run-on sentence. Their English teachers must be so proud!

        1. avatar Another Robert says:

          Legislators do that. Maybe they think punctuation would confuse people.

        2. avatar Stu Chisholm says:

          Well, they DID kinda overdo the commas in the 2nd Amendment. 🙂

  2. avatar SD3 says:

    Stupid question: ‘Signed’ or just a pipe-dream?

    1. avatar SD3 says:

      Uggh…sorry I asked…

  3. avatar Sergio in NC says:

    “natural and unalienable rights” some of my favorite words!

    1. avatar bontai Joe says:

      I liked the version printed above a whole lot more than the one at the NJ site. I tried reading the NJ version and had to quit half way thru because my head hurt.

  4. avatar Craig says:

    I find TTAG’s lack of faith… disturbing and irking.

    To quote Yogi Berra, ya gotta believe.

    1. avatar Pascal says:

      Go to the link, read the entire bill and all the wording, then let us know if you feel the same.

      1. avatar John Galt says:

        You’ve got to fight to win.

        If you give up before the battle has begun, you’re just ceding territory to the other side.

  5. avatar Dave Lewis says:

    Remember this is a state that thinks you’re too stupid to pump your own gas

    1. avatar MamaLiberty says:

      Oregon too, I think. Sounds more like a powerful union thing… but I never heard of a gas pumper’s union. I was married to a gas pumper long ago, and they didn’t have a union. What he actually needed was a real job! Pay was lousy.

      1. avatar Tom Boucher says:

        Oregon was actually about creating jobs. At least that was its intent when it passed years or decades ago

        1. avatar Pascal says:

          Ditto for NJ. Problem is that for many it becomes a life long profession.

        2. avatar MamaLiberty says:

          Create jobs, eh? The non-voluntary government is, of course, responsible for the disgusting condition of the economy that prevents the rational creation of business and subsequent employment. As with everything else, they created the original problem, and their “solutions” create even more problems, ad nausea. Job security for the controllers at any rate.

        3. avatar Bob92 says:

          Considering the massive amount of taxes for fueling up in Oregon, the additional cost of staffing the gas station, and the radical “environmental” movement in Portland, it is now more about forcing people into public transportation. Just about every proposal for expanding freeways and other highways in the area has been rejected, and the people have been directed to take public transportation. Money earmarked for road expansion is almost always repurposed toward Trimet or bike lanes. Oregon is now a crazy, rabid blue state that is rapidly declining economically, morally, and freedoms are rapidly evaporating, which as you can imagine, is why I moved to AZ.

        4. avatar Scrubula says:

          Creating new jobs is meaningless if they don’t serve a useful purpose. Worthless jobs are a burden on society, not an improvement (make the gas stations hire double the workers and what do you think happens to gas prices?)

        5. avatar John Galt says:

          Re: “Oregon was actually about creating jobs. At least that was its intent when it passed years or decades ago”

          That makes about as much sense as a law that requires a grocery clerk to push your cart out to the parking lot and load your bags in your car.

          Why stop there?

          The state could expand the law to require the grocery clerk follow you around the supermarket while you shop, and take items off the shelves for you.

          Now THAT would create jobs!

      2. avatar T-DOG says:

        That is why I always make sure I have a full tank just before I leave Washington state to head in to Oregon. A law to create jobs huh? Sounds more like a law of unintended consequences. I always heard it was because someone perished in a gas station fire/accident. So they made a law to have trained professionals do this dangerous work. That didn’t make sense to me because most of the station attendants didn’t seem trained or professional. Maybe things have changed since it’s been 20+ years since I’ve had to fuel up in Oregon.

        1. avatar John Galt says:

          According to a Wall Street Journal article, the law was passed in 1949 based on “the fear was that unprofessional pumpers would blow themselves up.”

          In a DIY World, Those in New Jersey Still Can’t Pump Their Own Gas…Self-Service Nation Ends at Garden State Gas Pumps

          Using that same logic, only “professionals” should be allowed to use guns.

    2. avatar NJ Joe says:

      I pumped gas in the late ’70’s in NJ while going to college. It was a part time job, minimum wage ($2hr), but then tuition was $5,000yr and gas (leaded) was 52cents a gal. Ah the old days!! The point is, it gives jobs to people (usually young or new to this country) that need one and gas in NJ is just about the cheapest in the US. Most stations are under $3. today. It is the only thing NJ doesn’t tax the crap out of…

      1. avatar Evan in Dallas says:

        If we didn’t have minimum wage laws there would still be young people pumping gas, as it is a job that pretty much just proves you can show up on time and perform a basic task. It is not worth minimum wage as it stands though. Plus, lots of people need jobs, but if what they are doing is not both productive and compensated at market price it isn’t worth the hassle.

        1. avatar NJ Joe says:

          I guess we should get rid of all the sales people and grocery store check out people too. Everything can be self serve. Lets face it, lots of people have jobs that make things more convenient for others. Here in NJ, I pump my own gas all the time. Nobody stops me and I’ll bet that I pay less than you do! AND, my wife doesn’t want to get all “gas-smelly” and is VERY happy she doesn’t have to…Bet yours would like it too.

      2. avatar John Galt says:

        Re: “The point is, it gives jobs to people (usually young or new to this country) that need one and gas in NJ is just about the cheapest in the US.”

        So pass a law that mandates how an individual runs their business, the sole intent being to create jobs?

        Why stop at businesses?

        If you really want to “gives jobs to people…that need one,” there should be a law that forces all NJ homeowners to hire people to mow their yards, rake their leaves and shovel their snow.

        1. avatar NJ Joe says:

          To E&J….I have said many times “For the taxes I pay, they ought to rake my leaves and cut my lawn, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.” At least where I live, people have a job, instead of cooking meth…

    3. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

      Pumping gas can be dangerous.

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        Steve Martin was also promised another kind of “job” in that movie, I recall…

        1. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

          I do believe you’re right.

  6. avatar Daniel in NC says:

    This bill has many qualities that are NOT redeeming. It is full of “Nanny State” statements as well as a healthy dose of government intervention. The quote shown above may indeed be pleasing to read, but simply read the bill and it becomes clear that the statement “natural and unalienable rights” is white-wash on a tomb.

    1. avatar the ruester says:

      Yep, reading through all of that 2C:58-3 (permit requirements) makes my head hurt. It’s like a a grabber asked santa for all of the most easily abused statutes possible. Disability restrictions, permission slips, vague allusions to “drukards,” some pending legislation restricting “…any person where the issuance would not be in the interest of the public health, safety or welfare;],” the infamously unconstitutional “terror list” and on and on. In MY dreams, the people of New Jersey are free from ALL of this insulting nonsense.

      1. avatar NJ Joe says:

        …And unfortunately, even this bill doesn’t have a snowballs’ chance of passing. The only option is to leave. I’ve been trying to get out for years, but am stuck for now with job, family, etc.

        1. avatar John Galt says:

          As a former slave state resident, I can assure you that it’s WELL worth relocating to a Free State.

          As Gandalf said to Théoden: “Breathe the free air again, my friend.”

      2. avatar BLAMMO says:

        I don’t know (I live in NY) but many of those arduous provisions, summer-salts and hoop-jumping might not be new. Some may already be part of the current process. The parts in green are the revised portions but revised from what? You have to compare it to the existing statute.

        NJ is a “may issue” state. Moreover, to obtain an unrestricted license to carry, you must show justification. I think this would remove that requirement. (Although, I didn’t read every single word.)

      3. avatar Mr Pierogie says:

        As constrained as this new bill is (let’s face it, that’s our best shot anyway), I applaud it for getting rid of the “justifiable need” nonsense altogether. It changes ‘may issue’ to ‘shall issue’ and removes the superior court judge’s final stamp of approval/denial as well, leaving it to the local police chief. There are other improvements, but I think these are key. Basically, as long as you can demonstrate firearms proficiency by completing a class (NRA or state issued), and you’re not a criminal, drunkard etc., you SHALL be issued a permit to carry for 5 years (was 2).

        Yes, this bill is not perfect, but at least it’s a sprinkling of freedom we so desperately need here in PRNJ. But I’m not holding my breath, the liberals will do anything they can to stop it from passing.

        1. avatar John Galt says:

          Yeah, 2nd Amendment folks need to remember to not let perfect be the enemy of good.

          In developing radar, Sir Robert Alexander Watson-Watt “justified his choice of a nonoptimal frequency for his radar with his often-quoted ‘cult of the imperfect,’ which he stated as ‘Give them the third best to go on with; the second best comes too late, the best never comes.’ ”

          Sir Robert Alexander Watson-Watt (Encyclopaedia Britannica)

        2. avatar Geoff PR says:

          “The best is the enemy of the Good Enough”

          Soviet military idiom.

      4. avatar Geoff PR says:

        Disability restrictions? The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) regulations will stomp that flat.

    2. avatar Brian says:

      All of these unreasonable restrictions are already in place for the permits and licenses required to purchase or transport firearms within the state. They are not new. What is new is that issuance of a Concealed Carry License may not be prohibited unless one of these disqualified the applicant.

      And to everyone saying “move”:

      “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” – Martin Luther King, Jr.

  7. avatar bob says:

    Is it April 1st?

    1. avatar Mr Pierogie says:

      Could be, because I got a good laugh out of this. No chance this will pass, but A for effort. The senator calls it the ‘Citizens’ Protection Act.’ I guess he forgot that the blue majority of politicians and judges in this state don’t give a damn about citizen security. Unless that means more police thugs in their snappy SS uniforms.

  8. avatar jomo says:

    He’s got moxie. You have to give him that.

    1. avatar John Galt says:

      The colonists also had moxie taking on the British Empire in 1776.

  9. avatar RockOnHellChild says:

    “WHEREAS, An analysis of the nation’s 30 “right-to-carry” states has demonstrated that only three to five percent of the population actually obtain permits to carry a handgun, but 95 to 97 percent of the population benefits because those individuals who exhibit socially aberrant behavior do not know if their intended victim is armed”

    I’m not a gun studies and stats guy, as I believe they hold no sway on rights, but I like this little factoid.

    You can loath guns and still benefit from the mere possibility of their presents.

    1. avatar cmeat says:

      you may have meant presence, although presents works in a poetic license sort of way.
      and i agree. as i mentioned here in the big city prairie the presence is unseen yet palpable.

  10. avatar Javier says:

    If your like me and reside behind enemy (ANTI) lines get on the horn, send emails and snail mail and vote WE may actually make a difference if WE put in the effort.
    You should also be aware of the following:

    Please contact the following sponsors and ask them to amend this bill that requires free individuals to take a training course BEFORE they are allowed to purchase a defensive firearm. All we are asking is that anyone wishing to own a swimming pool be required to take swimming lessons and a life-saving course prior to owning a pool on their private property. Is that asking too much?

    We prefer that you call these sponsors, but if that is not possible, then please send an email. Or even better – do both. The following is their contact information:

    Charlie Mainor D-31
    [email protected]

    Joe Lagana D-38
    201-576-9199 or 201-374-2205
    [email protected]

    Tim Eustace D-38
    201-576-9199 or 201-374-2205
    [email protected]

    Pete Barnes D-18
    [email protected]

    Do not be surprised if you receive a “mailbox full” message. Just keep on calling. They may not pick up, but we can certainly keep their phone lines busy until they *DO*! If they are going to discriminate against gun owners, then they need to suffer the consequences.
    NOTE: All the sponsors are democRATS

    1. avatar John Galt says:

      “Never Surrender”

      “We shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air. We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing-grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills. We shall never surrender!”

      — Winston Churchill
      House of Commons, 4 June 1940, following the evacuation of British and French armies from Dunkirk as the German tide swept through France.

      1. avatar Javier says:

        Quite right !

  11. avatar Accur81 says:

    In CA, we still have $hitty gun laws, but the weather is nice, and there are more than a few lovely ladies.

    1. avatar KB Dave says:

      But it’s gotta be pretty uncomfortable with that boot on your neck.

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        KB Dave, Accur81 _is_ one of the Jack-Booted Thugs…

        (I’m smiling when I say that – see?)

    2. avatar Evan in Dallas says:

      California is an example of a beautiful place wasted on what is primarily a bunch of mindless zombies. There are some people who have there heads on straight of course, but they are commonly overruled by the idiots.

  12. avatar Excedrine says:

    I’m not so sure, having read the entirety of the bill, that it’s really even a small step in the right direction. It still pretty well holds up the de facto ban on carry.

    1. avatar Mr Pierogie says:

      Did you see whether or not the bill would change the requirements of the current application, other than to show justifiable need? Because if you’d still need to provide 3 references, each of whom must know you for at least 3 years prior, then it’d still be very difficult for most NJ residents to get a permit. Most of the people I know want nothing to do with firearms.

  13. avatar Ralph says:

    This bill must have been written by Isaac Asimov, because passage is pure science fiction.

  14. avatar Mk10108 says:

    Unsolicited old guy advice…those lovely ladies are more trouble than they’re worth, however do agree the weather is awesome and don’t forget the vertical dirt.

  15. avatar Former Water Walker says:

    Oh ye of little faith. Anything can happen. I live in Illinois and things are better. And no I didn’t click the link. I just recall a bunch of Indiana a##holes saying move here because you are never getting concealed carry. Hope and change…and yeah maybe I’m naive.

    1. avatar John Galt says:

      As in a defensive gun fight, so in politics: one has to fight to win!

      “Never give up! Never surrender!”

  16. avatar Pantera Vazquez says:

    What are the chances this bill’s sole purpose if Passed is to provide Christie with credibility among conservative voters in his quest for the GOP nomination……

    1. avatar roadrunner says:

      Makes no sense, our Legislature does him no favors, see Bridgegate.

  17. avatar sota says:

    It is a start.

    While I don’t agree with the whole “The applicant demonstrates competence with a firearm by any one of the following” section, let it be known that nearly every (if not every) gun club in this state already has that requirement to become a member. It was required by me to take the NRA Basic Pistol class many moon ago, so that would satisfy that requirement. In short, If this act were signed I’d be able to apply and qualify immediately.

    Small moves forward are better than ones backwards.

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