Moms Demand Action. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. What a great name! And props to its not unattractive founder Shannon Watts for changing her org’s appellation from the ridiculous “Million Mom March” to the nudge, nudge, wink, wink multi-faceted moniker. That said, I disagree with everything the media-friendly MDA was, is and will be. Women, of all people, should have the ability to exercise their natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms anywhere they damn well please. (I wonder what Watts recommends as a defense against rape.) As they say, though, even a stopped clock is right twice a day. In the anti-gun agitprop above, Watts points out the hypocrisy of gun folk who ban legal carry from gun shows but want it everywhere else (I’m looking at you NRA). What’s your take? Are there places where legal carry should be banned?
Home Gun Control Question of the Day: Is Moms Demand Action Right?
Are there places where legal carry should be banned?
I disagree. Any carry in the shower should be prohibited. There is just no way to carry or handle a firearm safely when you are wet and covered in soap.
On a side note: please check out my newly available line of Towel/Gun racks.
Reminds me of a “Demotivational” poster of a guy peeking from around his shower curtain with a rifle in one hand and eating a cookie in the other. Caption: “I was in the shower enjoying a delicious chocolate chip cookie, when suddenly I heard a suspicious noise.”
Jails / prisons beyond the front lobby with free gun lockers, yes.
Other than that? No.
Now there is an idea. If you make your business a gun free zone the you must supply gun lockers too. Much like hotels are required to have safe deposit boxes even though must people don’t use them now days. Then instead of just throwing up a paper sign the place will have to put some money behind their conviction. We have to make public places ADA accessible for people with disabilities. Why not help them to be all inclusive to all peoples and stop being bigots of the gun.
The problem here is the motivation and reasoning behind this sort of a decision at a gun show vs. other places like Starbucks, schools, etc etc. A gun show is a place where firearms are handled, pointed, checked out, passed around, probably dry fired, etc. Not wanting any ammo or loaded guns in the building makes sense because of the possibility for a mistake, just like not allowing live ammo or loaded guns into a CCW classroom training session or in the area while you’re dry fire practicing or cleaning guns or whatever. I get it, even if I don’t necessarily agree with it. THAT’S their specific motivation for the request. It is NOT what MDA thinks. It is not a general philosophy of the gun show types. It is a safety measure specifically for environments where handling of guns happens as a matter of course.
Sure, I’d rather see the sign say something along the lines of “Concealed carry with permit is fine, but DO NOT HANDLE your concealed carry gun.”
Bob’s exlpanation of why gun shows don’t allow loaded guns is spot on. I’ll point out that cold gun ranges don’t allow loaded guns for the same reason. This is not the same as completely prohibiting firearms at a school or anywhere else. It is easy to destroy the argument made by mom’s demand action using the reason for the rule.
Guns may not be loaded but imagine if a mass murdered came to a cold gun range. Would people at the gun range load up and fire back? I imagine they would.
Mom’s Demand Action’s logic is completely flawed.
Show management to pay $20 bounty for coldcocking any/every moronic SOB who points a muzzle in the direction of another attendee. Show management certainly would go in the hole big time for a while but Cheeta and Bonzo would likely get the point or go away.
A couple of months back at a local Gun show (Des Moines) a vendor shot himself in the hand with one of his pistols as he was loading in (he has since been permanently banned). Just goes to show that when there are thousands of guns laying around and thousands of people picking them up to fondle them it’s probably not a good idea for any of them to be loaded, or any loose ammo to be laying around.
Legal carry banned? No dice.
I understand no loaded guns at a gun show, but it really should only apply to those on the tables and those being brought in for trade.
Agreed, no ban at gun shows for legal concealed carry – loaded. What’s the point?
The flaw in the law is that we allow people to dictate constitutional freedoms in places open to the public. The only place where you should have a right to ban lawful cary is in private residences.
Or any business. If you are not welcome in a place of business, then remaining there is trespass. They’ve the right to refuse service.
Fortunately, most aren’t anti-carry, by they’ve that right. A business is private property just as much as is your home.
A buisnes should have no more right to refuse service to legal gun carriers than they have a right to refuse to serve minorities.
The bill of rights protects us from government, not other people. I have as much right to ban people carrying guns as I do to ban people wearing blue shirts on my personal property, including my business. My place=my rights, not yours.
@nathan: So you are cool with “whites only” signs then?
I’ll answer in two parts. I would say no in general because, whether you would agree with it or not, the government has created specific classes of people that are protected by law. Simply put, gun owners/carriers are not one of those protected classes, which I feel is as it should be, leading to the second part. I’m a libertarian, and I feel that in everything, a person should be left alone to live their life as they please up to the point that it infringes upon someone else. In your specific scenario, that person’s right to express their stupid beliefs does not infringe upon another person’s rights to be unoffended (which isn’t really a right). Again, on their property, their rights are more important. If the person is so stupid/indoctrinated/feeble-minded not to see the benefits of interacting with people of different races and cultures, I say let them and their ilk live in the special little world they have…until they go after someone else.
Sorry for the really long response. If I didn’t make this clear previously, this only applies to a person and their words, belongings, lands, and business. In public services, elections, things that are owned by society, this obviously does not apply. So if the whites want to open up their privately owned “white only” park and the blacks want to do the same, let them do it. But the city park is open to all.
@Nathan: The problem with libertarianism is that is assumes that, when left alone, people are reasonable and understanding. We both know that, collectively, there are fewer species on earth more prone to panic and infighting than humans. A government needs to exist to keep the peace. The non-agression principle is a poor defense when confronted with groups of people willing to organize to perpetuate their mass insanity. To that end, a business that is open to the public needs to be kept to certain codes of behavior. Otherwise, what’s to keep the next Standard Oil from putting a sizable fraction of the country into de-facto slavery? One of those codes, is that you can’t refuse to serve someone simply because you don’t like the color of their skin, their sexual orientation, their religion, their politics, etc… While this seems like an infringement of your liberty, in reality the above is really none of your business. If I cary a gun into your store, the store can ask me to leave, but to legally bar me from entry and to make compliance to such a “condition” for me to exercise a natural right is absurd.
MY problem with libertarianism is that it’s too much of an exclusive club run by minor-league millionaires. You won’t find many libertarian billionaires.
RE: Standard Oil, I completely agree with you, pwrserge. I am not a no-government anarchist, just a low-government libertarian. In fact, I agree with you that banning someone from your place of business for carrying a gun is as ridiculous as banning them for being gay or black. But ultimately, in my opinion/worldview, the fundamental right of a person to be secure in their person and property (including their place of business) trumps the rights of another person or society to tell that person who’s allowed in their place. If they don’t like it, they can open up their own business and the bigot will quickly go out of business because he/she is probably a miserable, horrible person to be around and no one liked them anyway. I hate bigotry, but I will fight til my dying day for the rights of idiots to be idoitic.
Actually, the “whites only” signs were a government mandate – a whole cluster-fudge of what they called "Jim Crow" laws. From a proprietor’s point of view, it doesn’t make any economic sense at all to cut off half of your potential customer base.
It doesn’t matter to a shop owner what color your skin is, as long as your money is green. 😉
I messed up the HTML in my reply above. Let me try again:
It looks kind of like you’ve been drinking the kool-aid. Libertarians are anything but an “exclusive club.” We’re BEGGING for new members! Please visit
theirour site, take the quiz, and allow yourself to entertain some different ideas. What harm could it do?
I guess if there’s any one core underlying principle behind the whole Liberty movement it’s that Freedom is better than Slavery. I think a lot of people might be a little bit afraid of freedom because of the concomitant responsibility, i.e., they don’t want Freedom, they want Mommy.
Mod: it should be obvious that the one with the messed-up HTML should be deleted, and (hopefully) this one get posted. Thanks!
I think my point really was that libertarians have an image problem. I would really love to think otherwise about them, but they keep proving me right.
Image problem? How so? Or maybe what I should ask is, what’s an image problem?
It’s what I stated, Rich: people see them as a rich man’s party. Remember? You responded to it.
@pwrserge: The problem I have with that is you’re assuming you have a “right” to be in my store. I believe that if it’s my property you have no more right to be there than you do to be in my house if I don’t welcome you in.
The point of banning carry at well-run gun shows is that any ND that would happen will be seized upon by the antis and make it that much harder to have well-run gun shows.
There are ways at a well-run gun show to “disarm” (in my organization’s case, no loaded mags, nor rounds in firearm) but still be ready at moment’s notice to provide self- and others protection (to situationally rearm if needed). I don’t agree with it on principle, but in practice, it has worked well.
According to “gun rights activists”, guns should be banned in state parks and high crime areas of large cities.
I thought they were already… wait, I see what you did there…
I have always and will always believe that the prohibition on loaded firearms at gun shows is complete BS. If we can’t trust our own then who can we trust? If you have a negligent discharge at a gun show, simply accept the consequences when the cuffs get slapped on you.
It’s not the one of cuffs whose consequences are greatest, but the one he/she may have sent out in a body bag. That said, lawful concealed carry should be allowed, but any gun on the table or being openly handled/inspected/traded should be unloaded.
Agreed. For clarity, I wasn’t saying that the show should be on high alert with a round in ever chamber and a mag in every well, only that forbidding concealed carry at a show is about as silly as forbidding it anywhere else. The worst part is, we’re punishing ourselves because of the few retards that walk up to a table and say “wow! a P238! I gots me on’a’dem too look at mine!” before proceeding to have a negligent discharge. Why should we regulate our behavior down to the lowest common denominator.
You just answered your own question. The lowest common denominator is what may get you killed. Sad, it’s always been that way.
“Moms Demand Action.”
I know a guy in the valley currently doing a casting call for a movie of the same title…..
🙂 Laugh of the day 🙂
Thank you good Dr. for my daily laugh.
I thought that was Desperate Moms Demand Action. I could be wrong, though.
Having lived once in the Santa Clarita Valley, it took a moment to realize what you were talking about.
Hang on, my wife is wondering why I’m laughing my head off… she’s not going to like this.
You guys are going to get me in trouble now…
I used to live in the SCV. (Saugus FTW!) I left for a better gun state though.
I thought I heard that the porn industry was shut down at the moment, bad demon, back in your cage, back, bad demon, bad demon!
You beat me to it! I read the new spun name and thought “MILF porn.”
@@##[email protected]# doubled up!
That’s not appropriate for this forum, lets take you downstairs and break out the gimp……
Watts looks like that mouse in that Disney movie.
I’m not into rodents…..
Legal carry DOES need to be banned. IN SUBMARINES.
But isnt there an underwater Glock?
The Glock 8…it was released right after the 7.
The Glock 7 is the porcelean one right?
Glock 7 – No that was the Ceramic, Preceded by Glock 6 (Clay fired)
I’m a career submariner… I think we could manage OK with concealed carry onboard.
Not much point, though… probably what you meant… 😉
Around these parts these kinds of rules at ranges and gun shows don’t apply to your concealed carry piece, rather they’re talking about the ones you are bringing to shoot and sell. I’ve never had nor known anyone who has had a problem with this.
I feel that the only place a person should not be allowed to carry is on private property where the owner does not allow. And even then, in a dream world people would understand that those who concealed carry legally are the demographic least likely to perpetrate a violent crime.
I can sort of understand the reasoning behind the gun show’s logic (many firearms enthusiasts in a small place handling and exchanging firearms frequently). In that same vein, I am allowed to carry a loaded firearm into my LGS. The gunsmiths always clear and handle the weapons safely as do the customers. Same goes for the private range. Treat people as if they must behave responsibly and, by and large, they will. Bring the hammer down on the criminal element, not the general public for the sake of liability.
Most gun stores I’ve seen have similar rules, even Cabelas. I’ve never understood it either.
I can see it as required by idiot insurance companies.
I haven’t checked Cabela’s, but the Gander Mountains, Bass Pro, and Sportsman’s Warehouse in my area all have signs saying that all guns must be cased and unloaded except for those lawfully carried concealed.
Tanner Gun Shows bans any loaded weapons inside except law enforcement. This is likely related to an incident they had involving a negligent discharge at the show in 2010 (covered by TTAG at the time).
I Open Carry at the Cabelas in North Idaho. Despite the signs to the contrary their policy on checking firearms is only for ones that are being brought in for sale or gunsmithing.
My Cabela’s has a sign specifically excepting CHL holders from the clear-and-present rules. Of course, that still dumps on my constitutional carry brethren without the optional state-granted card…
Of course they dive into the over simplification as their reasoning; where as we all fully understand that the point of the rule is that the point of a gun show is to be handling guns, handling gun accessories, and even trying the two together (ie. holsters), so it’s a no brainer that all THOSE guns MUST be unloaded.
The reason for the idiot-proof-lawyer-approved sign is that somewhere, out of the hundreds of thousands of gun show visitors, there will be that ONE idiot who wants to take their concealed carry piece out to try it in a holster, and they will have an ND. The problem is that they took a gun that wasn’t supposed to be handled and started handling it.
Now if someone can come up with an all encompassing, sufficiently succinct, and lawyer approved sign that says concealed carriers who keep it holstered may carry, I’m sure they’d adopt that language, but until someone sufficiently skilled puts pen to paper we’ll continue with the hamfisted signage and the oversimplification of the issue from the anti-rights crowd.
All firearms entering this show for sale, trade, and/or exhibition must be unloaded at all times while on the premises.
Legally carried concealed firearms may remain loaded and secured by the licensee.
“Legally carried pistols may remiain loaded, but MUST remain holstered unless needed for a legitimate purpose of self-defense.”
P.S. Violators will be shot.
And trespassers will be violated.
Better and simpler:
“Keep pistols HOLSTERED unless needed for self-defense.”
This should be the case everywhere! And the beauty of this statement, beyond its simplicity, is that it actually mirrors the laws in just about every state.
If a private entity wishes you to disarm then they should be (and are in a couple of states) legally liable for your safety. If there is a strong police or armed guard presence then I think they should have the legal right to ask you to disarm. If however, they do nothing to ensure your safety and someone comes in and shoots up the place they should be liable for any injury you may suffer right up to wrongful death. I think if they weighed the cost of providing security or potentially paying millions in settlements verses just letting people exercise their constitutionally guaranteed rights, they’d come down on the side of individual liberty.
I haven’t been to a gun store that didn’t “allow” concealed carry, why should a show at a mall or fairgrounds be any different?
Yes, of course. Inside prisons (where even visiting cops have to hand over their guns). Also inside private property not open to the general public against the owner’s wishes (frankly I agree with California law about semi-public property, privately owned but open to the public, like say the shopping area of grocery store or the sidewalk in front of your house).
And maybe in certain events, say meeting the president, where every individual goes through security and there is a small army there protecting from violence. Maybe then. But that is about it.
Insurance. Simple as that. Sorry, but that’s one of the worlds we live in.
Open your own insurance company and insure every gun show you find no matter the circumstances.
or if any victims of gun violence sue the insurer b/c they were prohibited from protecting themself . . . .
Wait, the NRA is against guns? I never would have thought it! well, except that they supported:
and the brady bill,
and the safe school zones act,
and the motion to proceed on manchin toomey,
and draconian mental health reporting bills at the state level in Florida and Delaware.
If only there were a no-compromise gun rights group like the National Association for Gun Rights, who could out spend them 2:1 in the first quarter of 2013, and nearly 4:1 in the second quarter. Wait, that’s just what NAGR did! And they support constitutional carry, not “take our class so you can pay your coat tax”
They should not ban it at the show, or at the fair, where lines are slow,
They should not, would not on a train, a cruising ship or commercial plane.
If I had my way, on bus or tram,
I’d ALWAYS carry, Sam I am!
There’s a guy at our company last name of Seuss and he has a Ph.D. True story.
+10,000, Theo Geisel II! [APPLAUSE]
Brings back memories.
I almost walked away when I enter the convection center legally with my CC but saw that the flipping gun show had brought their own 30.06 sign (Texas signage) and had in on a easel. Needless to say, I won’t be going back, ever.
Most gun shows in TX don’t allow you to carry.
It’s ok though, most gun shows around here are beef jerky and earring vendors with some $50 pmags and $30/50 Tula 9mm vendors thrown in. Almost not worth it anymore.
Guns and ovens do not mix well.
As a fellow Texas, is the irony there for you as well that the anti-chl language is 30.06?
30.06, I’d really love the sign more if it wasn’t the “you can’t carry here” type. Maybe if it was the “licensed possession of a hand gun on these premises is illegal” sign…
The Waco gun show a few months back was actually “ok”. Decent deals but nothing that I thought was interesting enough to shell out for.
I live in Waco and went to that one. It’s about par for the course. Friend bought a “complete” stock set to finish his m16 (02/07) and the buffer broke apart after a day’s firing.
I probably won’t be going back unless someone screams “dude!!!! I had to climb over ammo boxes just to get in the door!!”
sc gun shows specifically prohibit cc. Sc is not a carry friendly state though, despite what people tell you.
I have reservations about courtrooms, police rations and such.
Too easy to get a bunch of cronies in place to spring Ivan the Nose, and too high a risk of a rookie doing rookie stuff.
Generally no, but there’re places where it’s just not a good idea.
Also,”Women, of all peope, should have the ability…” Unless they’re named Karen Benjestorf, who is being pilloried on TTAG following a successful DGU.
What’s the problem? Doughnuts ALREADY have a hole in them1 😉
I thumb my nose in your general direction.
Now to go make a doughnut-hole cannon…
That’s why the statute should keep anyone from prohibiting cary in any places open to the public. The insurance underwriters would have nothing to complain about.
The missile bay of a Typhoon-class SSBN because, as Mr. Connery once noted, some things don’t take well to bullets.
Indeed. Grain elevators come to mind, along with other such sensitive areas.
‘Course, I think most of us were talking about otherwise safe areas…
Made me chuckle, though.
VASTLY overstated… A properly designed and built missile tube on an SSBN is intended to contain the launch blast… small arms are not going to be noticed. Ricochets would be nasty, though…
I understand to some degree the gun show’s not wanting everyone to carry a loaded weapon. For every 1000 of us good gun owners there is probably 1 idiot who will have a ND. I don’t think that moron should prevent me from carrying, but I understand the liability issues Gun shows have with insurance and rented space.
But I think this is more of a private property issue. I don’t think public property wise there should be anyplace that we can’t carry. In fact the I recently read a letter from the Idaho AG where he basically said, open carrying inside courts and jails is actually OK under Idaho law, since those places were only listed as restricted to CC. But even carrying on public property can be difficult sometimes because of all the ignorant folk out there.
and again the show clear disregard and lack of understand for what they are trying to do. you dont allow loaded fire arms in a gun show because you have hundreds ppl fondling guns all day.
My feeling is in your house you can tell me no. Anywhere else give me a safe location to remove and store my firearm while in the building provided you have armed guards present and are willing to accept liability both for my safety and for my property then we’re good. this would apply to police stations, gov’t buildings, etc. Anywhere that I can easily walk in with a weapon with no resistance met should not be illegal to carry, for anyone looking to do harm won’t be stopped by a sign.
The gun shows around here make sure you’re unloaded before entering, but it’s an indemnity thing. Too many idiots have brought weapons that were “unloaded” only to have a negligent discharge in the show.
On my end of TN you can carry unloaded and you have to check your gun at the entrance. You cant have loaded magazines on your person either. They open your slide and run a zip tie down the barrel and then close the slide. On with your business from there.
In fairness to the gun shows in the St. Louis area, my concealed firearm is not part of the equation. The firearm I plan to have out and showing it to potential buyers, or to try to find an accessory (a holster perhaps) is cleared and made safe.
It may follow that at ToysR’Us wouldn’t want you to carry a bunch of toys into to their store, things may get confusing from a retail outlet point of view. Likewise.
If you can’t have it loaded, why carry unless your looking for a buyer, if you’re looking for a buyer, they may want to examine the firearm. holsterd and empty is different than loaded and being handled.
Less someone just forgets to unload then does a show and te.. bang.
Weigh the odds, many many guns together, more chance of an ND. If I was a show organizer and defender of gun rights, the bad publicity of an ND at a place where “gun nuts” gather does not further our goals thus outweighs. Plus, if it’s your show , you set the rules, will you stop claiming violation of rights.
Who ever rents the venue owns the rules, period.
True, “Moms” want to create the impression in this case of “What’s good for the Goose…”
I don’t like being disarmed, but I do understand some places (including prisons). In general, declaring a place a gun free zone is more tolerable if people have to go through metal detectors to get in. That way, the dishonest people mostly get disarmed along with the honest ones. Without metal detectors (or something far more invasive and far less tolerable), a gun free zone is of course a joke.
Keep in mind Old Ben that metal detectors do absolutely nothing to stop violent criminals. Say you are the next spree killer and want to make a splash at a convention with metal detectors at the front door. If there is not a back door with easy access, you can simply drive your car through a wall and make a back door. And aside from easy access at a back door, storming the front door is as easy as shooting the unarmed “guards” manning the metal detectors. And if the guards are armed, taking them out is almost as easy as driving through a back door.
Suppose that you are a stalker and finally decided to end the life of the object of your “affection”. That’s easy. Take them out any time of your choosing before or after the convention.
Don’t be fooled: metal detectors are security theater.
Good points. I agree, you aren’t perfectly safe in any situation. If someone has the will to kill and isn’t worried about their own personal safety, they will kill.
Shows I’ve been to just say “If it’s concealed, keep it that way!”
I would probably ban pulse rifles that fire 10mm explosive tip casless, light armor peircing rounds from being carried under primary heat exchangers. Id go with incinerators only.
Then what are we going to use? Harsh language?
There is always that spare 12Ga carried under your armor…
Of course “Moms Demand Action” are not right, Robert. By definition they cannot be, because firearms are a technology about which they know next to nothing.
None of this has to do with right or wrong, it has to do with inflicting political will based on emotion. And money.
This isn’t Moms Demanding Action–as hilarious as that name is. It’s the tentacles of Bloomberg and other long-standing anti-gunnies.
What’s her stance on fellow Progressive, San Diego Mayor, and Serial Molester, Bob Finer?
A little more on Chicago-based Joyce Foundation and its funding in its “gun violence prevention program”:
Wikichart of their funding flow:
Their entire program proceeds from lie and spin: “GUN VIOLENCE PREVENTION: Each year nearly 100,000 people are shot in the U.S., and nearly 30,000 of them die. The Joyce Foundation seeks effective public policies to reduce this toll.”
Program staffers are
Nina Vinik (program director)
She used to live in Evanston (median family income over over $100,000 a year), but now lives in Lake Forest (median family income of nearly a quarter million a year). My point being, there are lucrative careers to be had in being a Joyce anti-gun program director. Once money and talent flow in the same direction, issues are constructed so as to follow the turf.
Ginny Simmons (program officer)
And one Alyson Koblas, who is listed as a support staffer, “employment,” for the Joyce anti gun program. Not sure what that means.
Joyce’s 2012 funding for anti Second Amendment stuff:
This stuff is all so far removed from the realm of “what really works,” it would be laughable if it didn’t reek so bad of anti-Bill-of-Rights elitism among a mess of megamillionaires/billionaires and their professional retainers. It has nothing to do with being right about anything as practical as the right to and technology for defense of body, dignity, property, family, and community.
The Joyce Foundation is the mushroom of American politics. I grows best in the dark on a load of sh1t.
Thank you for the information, and the work you did in compiling it.
Yet again they go above and beyond the call of stupid. Commendable.
Legal CCW aside.
I attended the NRA St Louis show last year. A great show btw. The vendor’s displays were all checked, unloaded, and zip tipped.
I can attest from personal experience, that while most of us are safety savvy, the majority (>50%) of attendees were happily lasering everyone themselves included, and pulling triggers willy nilly like a 5yr old and their first cap gun Christmas day.
While I do strongly support the 2A and that these rights “should not be infringed.” I breathed a little easier knowing every gun in the room was unloaded.
I’d prohibit live ammo and loaded weapons anywhere near where you’ re training with Smunitions. Operating an absolutely sterile range is the only way to go in that circumstance.
If someone is a free citizen (meaning they are not an inmate in a prison or a “dangerous” patient in a psychiatric hospital) there is no legitimate reason to prohibit them from possessing firearms anywhere they go.
When someone tells a free citizen, “You cannot have a firearm.”, that someone is telling the free citizen that the free citizen is worthless and subject to the whims of the person making demands … which is what criminals do.
Anyone who demands that free citizens give up their rights as a condition to go somewhere, engage in commerce, etc. is tyrant.
Before people whine about my comment, please note that business transactions involving trading something of value for something else of value — for example trading a refrigerator for money or trading a skill for a motorcycle. Business transactions never involve giving up ones rights.
The only time legal carry should be banned is if the banning party is taking on the onus of security for themselves- if I get assaulted, they get charged just like the criminal. I can understand a gun event banning handling of loaded firearms (unload and remove magazine on entry, loading is treated as hostile).
Holstered handguns are welcome at my LGS. If you unholster your pistol you damn well better ask please and explain why. There’s a big difference between carrying a gun and handling a gun. Moms Demand Midol will never understand because they don’t want to understand.
I was actually thinking about this last week and it’s kind of ironic: Facilities that produce chemicals and materials used in the production of explosives and ammunition propellants have a genuine safety reason to prohibit the carrying of firearms in their production areas. These places do however have very tight security measures in place to prevent nut cases, criminals, and terrorists from gaining access. I could be wrong but it seems logical to conclude that even the shockwave produced by a firearm’s discharge could cause pure nitroglycerin to explode. Let’s just say that you and the bad guy are going to have a very bad day no matter who has a gun around that stuff.
The question I have is why loaded firearms are not allowed in gun shows? Certainly it makes sense that anything for sale should be unloaded. These firearms will be passed from person to person, inspecting the merchandise. You wouldn’t want to plug a potential customer. But as for a concealed or open carry piece that is not for sale, why can we not carry? Are there local ordinances prohibiting it? Does the show’s insurer require this prohibition? Or is it the policy of the show’s management? “Why?” is the question of the day. Does TTAG’s crack reporting staff have time to investigate this? Put this topic in your “to-do” list for one of those rainy, slow news days.
The universal no loaded guns at guns shows is BS. And I promise you all, when my conceal carry permit finally shows up, I will ignore such requests with pride, perusing the local wares with a fully loaded, cocked and locked firearm on my hip. Here is how it should work:
Any firearm brought to the show with the purpose of display, trade, or selling should remain unloaded and and locked. Ammo should remain separate from firearms and magazines at all times, no exceptions. Violation of these terms should result in a permanent ban from any and all participation in gun shows.
Attendees who wish to open carry or conceal carry per their God given 2nd amendment rights, per state regulation (barring such regulation does not conflict with the 2nd amendment), may do so without harassment. The firearm may be carried in any stage including cocked and locked per owners preference, carried in a secure and proper holster, (minimum requirement of a proper holster being that the holster fully covers and protects the trigger, and retains the firearm on the owners person). Owners shall not “play with”, remove from holster, fondle, show off, or in any way interact with their carry piece, as dictated by law and common sense, the only exception being, as stated in law, the rightful use in self defense against deadly force aggression.
As always, be respectful and courteous in your dealings with others. Any disruptive, aggressive, or dangerous behavior will result in a warning and escort from premises, for the rest of the current show’s duration. Repeated offenses at subsequent events will result in a permanent ban for the show.
Strong words, Arod. Concealed means concealed, and I’m OK with that, actually. I’d have a little trouble with open carry at a gun show, if I lived in an open carry state. It may not be completely rational, and I may not be able to explain it, but that’s how I feel.
How would you enforce a permanent ban? I’ve never been to a gun show where they checked ID, so are they gonna tattoo it on the back of your hand where the entry handstamp would normally go?
Meh. I’d give her a solid “5”. Could probably drink her up to a “7”, though.
I’ve certainly never been to a gun show that didn’t have armed law enforcement at the door, so I feel pretty safe being inside unarmed. If Starbucks wants to have cops posted 24 hours a day outside, I don’t need to carry in their stores.
The reason they changed their name was due to a copyright infringement claim by “One Million Moms”, a “advocacy” branch of “American Family Association”. I know this because I am the founder of Moms Demand Action’s opposition, 1 Million Moms AGAINST Gun Control, and we were hit with the “copyright” infringment claim as well, however, these moms didn’t and wont back down. Carry on.
Might i recommend ashleymadison.com to these moms that DEMAND action or perhaps adult friend finder would be better able to satisfy their demand