Home Question of the Day Question of the Day: Do You Boycott Gun-Free Businesses? Question of the Day Question of the Day: Do You Boycott Gun-Free Businesses? By Robert Farago - March 27, 2011 47 Facebook Twitter Pinterest WhatsApp Email ◀Previous Post Next Post▶ ◀Previous Post Next Post▶ RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR How Do We Get Open-Minded Non-Gun Owners to Buy Their First Firearm? Do You Correct Other Shooters at the Range? Where Do You Keep Your Home Defense Gun at Night? 47 COMMENTS Yes. Reply As much as possible. I also try and let them know why I do not shop there. Reply Yep. And I encourage others to do so as well. I don’t have to support them if they don’t support the things I care about. Reply As much as possible – I wish there was a national and local county/state database that we could track this… Reply Here’s a couple of must see lists for gun owners to look at. http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=15 http://www.nrablacklist.com/ Why give money or support to anyone or anything that tries to usurp your 2nd Amendment rights? I do my best to stay away from anything that is remotely anti-gun. Reply Hate to tell you but the NRA Blacklist is actually a front site for the Brady Campaign… read it closely… Reply I did read it closely, I said why give support to anything or anyone who is anti-gun…you read it closely. I put those two sites up to show people who a bunch of anti-gunners are… sorry if my post didn’t convey that message. My bad – it didn’t read that way to me… It appeared that both were connected by the way you put the links in there and your writing style… its all straight now though… From the site: If you would like to help us, please click here and contribute as generously as you can. The contributions will be used for the Campaign Against Illegal Guns to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Thank you so much. This website is in no way affiliated with the NRA. It is indeed designed to oppose everything the NRA stands for, as part of the campaign to stoptheNRA.com. Contact us at [email protected]. Reply No shit sherlock, read my post again and the follow up to it. How the hell do you get that I was endorsing those two sites as pro-gun? Damn, I guess I need step up my internet communication game…excuse the hell out of me! Here’s a couple of must see lists for gun owners to look at. http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=15 http://www.nrablacklist.com/ Why give money or support to anyone or anything that tries to usurp your 2nd Amendment rights? I do my best to stay away from anything that is remotely anti-gun. I’m sorry, “Sherlock,” your post was perfectly clear. The Missouri Concealed Carry folks publish a list: MissouriCarry.com Just now searching around in there I notice that a local grocery store that used to be in this list is no longer present. This is good. Reply I rarely encounter businesses with those signs. My credit union posted one. I asked to see the Credit Union president. She came out to talk to me, and I told her what I thought, and then asked to withdraw my money. She then offered to allow me to carry in the building. I said that wasn’t enough. I then told several other people. Who then went to her to complain. They took the sign down within a week. The only other place I have seen one is a shopping mall. I ignored it. I hate the damn places anyway. Kicking me out would be a favor. Reply Indeed. If I see such a sign, I enter the premise, ask to see the supervisor/ manager, and once I’ve gotten to the highest point possible I attempt a civil conversation between myself and them, usually including that myself and most of the people I associate with, will no longer be customers until such a sign is removed and law abiding citizens allowed to do as is their right (carry open, or concealed). If they refuse, I notify them that their company name, and address will be posted on various sites to notify thousands of potential customers of where they are not welcome, and wish the person a good day. I’ve only succeeded in speaking with 3 small business owners, who only had the signs put up at employee’s request, who, in private audience with myself, were educated and reconciled to just who someone who carries a firearm is, and thus had the signs removed. I wish it were greater than three. Reply As much as possible I do. But I’m torn sometimes. If a business is privately owned and that owner, for whatever the reason, doesn’t want my gun in his or her store then what am I going to say? I won’t go to that store any more but it’s hard for me to criticize that person for making a decision on how to manage their own private property. Being a libertarian, I don’t care if the business owner hangs a sign out front saying ‘John Fritz, get the F out!’. Screw ’em. I’ll go somewhere else. Getting back to the original point, I will still make my feelings known about how I disagree with their no-gun policy however. Reply I have never seen such a sign in Massachusetts. I’m not saying that there aren’t any, just that I haven’t seen any. If I did, I would boycott such an establishment and buy my toothpaste or whatever elsewhere. Reply Yes and no – I usually don’t eat at places that restrict legal carry, but there are the exceptions (e.g. getting dinner in unknown cities, business-related trips, etc). There is one chinese place that used to allow carry, but now has a sign up restricting so. We still go there, but it is a very rare occurrence. Of course, ASU (at the present moment) bans weapons, including firearms – but I really have no choice on that matter. I did express my opinion one time to an eatery, but did so on the front and back of the dinner check. I doubt I persuaded the owner by myself, but perhaps was the straw that broke the camel’s back. There is a sign that now says “Firearms Allowed”! We go there a lot now! Reply I haven’t seen any signs that ban guns in RI, but I’d still carry in those stores because if the gun is properly concealed they won’t know I’m carrying. Reply Absolutely not! There is so much talk on this website about freedom and personal rights, which is all fine and good. However, it seems so focused on “My” rights, with little consideration for “His” rights? I am HUGE on personal property rights and the citizen’s right to protect himself and his/her property… equally applied to everyone. In fact, I have taken an oath to defend those rights from all enemies both foreign and domestic, even if it costs me my life. Accordingly, I carry everywhere I legally can, because it is my right and I choose to exercise it. However, if I see a sign saying that no firearms are allowed inside a business, then I respect that. It is someone else’s property and they have a right to manage and control it as they see fit. How many of you boycotters would allow a complete stranger to carry a gun in your yard or your house? Around your family and property? Not many of you I imagine…I wouldn’t. What makes a business any different? Someone else OWNS that business. It is their personal property that they built with their hands. Who are you to tell them how to run it? The government shouldn’t do it and you shouldn’t either. If you do not want to give up your ability to protect yourself when you enter those businesses, then don’t go shop there. That is your right to freedom and choice. You don’t have to agree with it, but you can respect it. But how dare you tell them how to run their business. If it was my business and someone came to me and told me that they didn’t like the way I did business or that I should change one of my policies, I would thank them very politely for their concerns and then wish them luck in finding another store to meet their needs. Of course, if I owned a business, I would allow people to carry guns inside, but another business owner may not…that is their RIGHT. Constitutionally, you have a right to protect, manage, and use your property (which includes your person) in any way you choose so long as it doesn’t violate the property rights of another citizen. Someone carrying a gun into a business that has a “No Guns Allowed” sign posted violates the rights of the business owner. Once you start complaining and calling for change about the way other people exercise their property rights, you have become no better than the liberal, big government types that are trying to take away your 2nd Amendment rights. That being said, there is an important distinction to be made here. My carrying a gun in public does not violate others’ personal rights if they don’t want me to. I only violate their rights if I directly and willfully threaten or breach their personal safety (i.e. brandish a weapon or shoot them). Simply not feeling safe is not an argument against guns in public. If that was the case, everyone should be crying out for a ban on everyone’s car but their own…again with the self-centric view of rights. Many gun control advocates would have us believe that gun owners violate the public’s right to safety. There is no right to safety guaranteed in the Constitution or any other document for the matter. You and I have no right to safety. You have the right to protect yourself and your property but does that guarantee that you and your property will in fact remain safe? Nope. Far from it. You could carry a gun, practice with it several hours every week, be the most diligent and responsible gun owner in America, and still be killed by an armed intruder in your own house while you sleep. If people would just stop and consider other’s rights and not just their own, that would solve the vast majority of the problems in society today. And now I must step down, because I am getting dizzy up on top of this soap box. Reply CharlesT, you are absolutely correct that the business has rights that are just as important as ours. The business may have the right to say “no guns.” I have the right to go elsewhere if they do. I also have a First Amendment right to advise others to do the same and to boycott the store. That way everybody’s rights are respected. I retain the right to protect myself, and the business retains the right to go broke. Fair’s fair. And I also have a First Amendment right to tell any busines owner who would ban me to go fuck himself, if that’s what I want to do. Which I would. I now return the soapbox to its upright and locked position. Reply That is your right, which I have maintained all along. I never said you had to like an in-store no-guns policy or agree with it. It would be nice if you respected it, that’s all. Sure, you have the right to speak to the owner/manager and have an intelligent dialogue about why certain policies are in place and if any alternatives have been considered. You even have the right to tell him to go “F himself.” However, asking the owner why he has the sign posted and then asking some follow-up questions along the line of what John Fritz posted below will get you a lot further than telling the owner how he should or shouldn’t do something. If, after the conversation, you are not satisfied with the responses or the outcome, so much so that you don’t want to shop there anymore, then don’t. However, it’s not about me, it’s not about you, and it’s not about the store owner. It’s about respecting everyone’s rights equally. If you can’t civilly respect the store’s rights, how can you expect them to respect yours? Just my opinion. I also respect your opinion and your right to disagree with mine. Reply Who are you to tell them how to run it?… If you do not want to give up your ability to protect yourself when you enter those businesses, then don’t go shop there. The QOTD was “Do You Boycott Gun-Free Businesses?” Not, “Do you tell business owners how to run their businesses?” I was making reference to other posts where people suggested that they would go give the store owner/manager a piece of their mind. I did address the QOTD in my post as well. CharlesT, I would never, repeat never, carry anyplace where it is not allowed by the owner. On that we are in total agreement. As for advising the owner to shove his sign sideways, after thirty years of practicing law and abiding by the rules of civility, I’m now retired from both law practice and that whole civility thing. I find it liberating. Reply I tend to avoid any business that does not allow me to concealed carry. I will generally let them know it as well. I do not throw it in their face I simply state that it is reason enough for me to avoid shopping there. I live in a safe area in the country where everyone has guns but occasionally when I head into town you run into the city slicker that moved to the country and started a business and hates guns. Reply I tend to agree with Charles T. I’ll leave the boycotting of businesses to the liberals. In Texas if you want to prohibit CHL license holders from carrying concealed handguns the state law requires you to post a sign that says: “Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun.” The sign must be written in both English and Spanish in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height, and must be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public. I rarely see these signs so it’s not usually an issue with me. In fact, I’ve never seen one at the local hardware, bank, dry cleaners, gas station or grocery so that pretty much covers the extend of my shopping. Reply I don’t patronize places that have the correct sign, but I ignore those with signs that don’t meet the legal standard. And the fact is that most don’t comply. In that case the only thing that they can do is ask you to leave if you have to act. There are other places I know have a policy of not allowing concealed carry like Costco Wholesale warehouse clubs. I have a choice of where to spend my money, and Costco is virulently anti-gun. They make their choices and so do I. Reply I too, live in Texas. In one year of concealed carry, I have seen one “No Guns” sign. It was not a 30.06 sign. I could legally ignore it. I have never seen a 30.06 sign or a 50% sign in my section (West) of the state. Reply My local bakery has a sign that says “Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.” Does that count? Reply I think that is for the women customers… just say’n Reply Tim, you’s a dog. That’s a compliment. Reply Is that anything like “save a horse, ride a cowboy?” A while back I pointed out to a local business owner that posting a ‘No Guns Allowed’ sign in his store was like a welcome mat to criminals who are looking for an environment where no one can defend themselves or their property. He replied that he honestly had never thought of it that way before. It was an educational moment for him. Reply I’ve never seen one, but see to reason to give them business if one appeared. Reply A business recently opened in my neighborhood that sells gold and gold coins, and they have a “No Concealed Firearms” sign on the door, presumably for security, rather than idealogical reasons. But unless they have some sort of airlock arrangement with a metal detector, I don’t see the utility of it. I guess the (armed) owner of such a business might figure that if people who legally carry respect his sign, if he glimpses a gun on someone, he’ll know it’s probably trouble and act accordingly. I can empathize with businesses not wanting people to openly carry, which, right or wrong, may freak out their other customers. A lot of that depends on the location of the business. Reply Always. If I see a no guns allowed sign then my business is going elsewhere. They have the right to put the sign up and I have the right to shop somewhere else. Reply No, not if they have what I want. But I do smirk while I shop around. Reply Of course. Why would I pay money to someone who doesn’t respect me as a person? Reply Yes. I make it a point to. the only times I do not is when it is a group larger than my family, in which I will respect the group’s decision. Generally, no, I won’t support them. Reply I don’t boycott but if I’m carrying and they don’t want my business, I’ll accommodate them. Reply Inform the management. And if you must do business there, then concealed is….concealed. Reply In Texas, the state law governing concealed carry has some interesting quirks. They approved the wording on a couple of different signs. One section of the law (section 30.06 – I’m NOT making this up) covers a sign that prohibits ANY concealed carry, even by permit holders. Here’s what the Texas Dept. of Public Safety has to say about it: PROHIBITING HANDGUNS IN A BUSINESS OR OTHER ENTITY In order to provide notice that entry on property by a license holder with a concealed handgun is forbidden, Penal Code Section 30.06(c)(3)(A) requires that a written communication contain the following language: “PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN.” “CONFORME A LA SECCIÓN 30.06 DEL CÔDIGO PENAL (TRASPASAR PORTANDO ARMAS DE FUEGO) PERSONAS CON LICENCIA BAJO DEL SUB-CAPITULO H, CAPITULO 411, CODIGO DE GOBIERNO (LEY DE PORTAR ARMAS), NO DEBEN ENTRAR A ESTA PROPIEDAD PORTANDO UN ARMA DE FUEGO.” Download language Penal Code Section 30.06(c)(3)(B) further states that a sign must meet the following requirements: includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish; appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public. Handguns and other weapons cannot be carried at schools or on school buses, at polling places, in courts and court offices, at racetracks, at secured airport areas or within 1,000 feet of the premises of an execution on the day of execution. The law also specifically prohibits handguns from businesses where alcohol is sold if 51% or more of their revenue is from the sale of alcohol for on-premises consumption, and from stadiums, gyms or spaces where high school, college or professional sporting events are being held. You can’t carry handguns in hospitals or nursing homes, amusement parks, places of worship or at government meetings if signs are posted prohibiting them (see Texas Penal Code § 30.06 requirements). Businesses also may post signs prohibiting handguns on their premises based on criminal trespass laws. See Texas Penal Code § 46.035. (Judges, prosecuting attorneys, peace officers and parole officers should consult Texas Penal Code § 46.15 regarding exemptions from the “no-carry” rules of the Penal Code.) Most businesses in Texas that are wary of handguns post signs that look LIKE the 30.06 sign, but vary the language to say something about “carrying illegally” (in other words, without a CHL). Only once have I run across a place that prohibited concealed carry for CHL holders by choice. I asked to speak to the manager, explained my position, and told him that I would not be returning, and I would spread the word to all my friends who carry, to avoid his establishment like the plague. The sign came down within the month. Here’s a poser for you, though. Every range and sporting goods store I’ve ever been to posts a sign that any LOADED gun is prohibited within the store, INCLUDING concealed handguns. In order to comply, I have to unload my carry weapon, get inside, sign-in, head to the range, and reload it. Weird. Reply A lot of good points.. many that I would just repeat. One thing that wasn’t mentioned is to let them know how much money you spent elsewhere. If you buy gas 2x a week and you don’t shop at their place, due to their sign, it’s worth it to let them know. Here is a site that might be of interest to list and lookup places that don’t want guns on their premises: http://friendorfoe.us/ Add to it and make it better. Reply Do I boycott businesses that proclaim themselves as “gun free”? No, I do not. Quite the contrary, businesses that do so are telling me loud and clear that my money is not good enough for them, or that they have enough money without mine, or that I am not “their kind of people”. Which is fine with me. There’s plenty of places to shop and to eat where the proprietors don’t hold such irrational fears about inanimate objects. It’s their right to decide what is or is not allowed on their own private property. Reply I boycott. When I know. Recently me and the wife stopped at a Mr. Chicken and placed an order. We were standing in the rather ‘looked like it would be robbed any moment’ type of entryway (there were no chairs) for about 15 minutes when I saw the sign. It was about 3 feet long on the ‘inside’ of the store. It read that it was illegal for me to have a gun on the premises and the property of the owner of the store. There was a rather large rambling statement that looked like legal jargon until you saw the blatant lie on there. It is illegal to CC in Cleveland or Ohio. Failure to comply will result in jail time. Needless to say me and the wife lost it laughing and thanked the kid for the chicken (the chicken was awesome) and vowed never to go there again. Reply I would boycott gun-free businesses in my area … If I could. Given that I’m in Illinois and citizens aren’t permitted to carry firearms, all the businesses are gun-free. Maybe someday we can get that rectified. Reply Not just yes, but HELL YES! John Reply LEAVE A REPLY Cancel reply Please enter your comment! Please enter your name here You have entered an incorrect email address! Please enter your email address here Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Notify me of new posts by email.