“You’re never going to learn new skills in the middle of a gunfight.” Which is another way of saying, you have to practice, prepare, and think about what would make you draw your gun before you have to draw your gun. The “correct” answer: an imminent threat of death or imminent bodily harm. Short of that, drawing — let along firing — your weapon can and probably lead to a world of legal and financial consequences that no one would ever want. Have you prepared? Have you thought about it? Do you know when you’d draw your gun?
I cant draw my gun, until I take art class.
Don’t think it will help that much if sharks are involved.
Highly likely sharks will be involved eventually. His shark tank metaphor is a good one, since land sharks will likely be called up by relatives of the dead perp. Thing is, that even if you are exonerated by the cops/district attorney, There are lots of lawyers who don’t have enough billable hours lined up, who would be happy to assist relatives of the dead or permanently disabled scum bag with putting the squeeze on you. If Mr Dead Scumbag has relatives willing to foot the bill anyway. If there is even a whiff of a chance you did something wrong, lots of them will take it on contingency, which means they will be in it personally for a pound of flesh. Even if you walk away without a judgement against you, and they get nothing, you will have to pay your attorney and the good ones aren’t cheap.
“His shark tank metaphor is a good one, since land sharks will likely be called up by relatives of the dead perp.”
I’m throwing the BS flag on that one.
Everybody knows there’s no such thing as ‘land sharks’.
You’re slandering innocent dolphins just trying to get their lives together…
Thanks, I would sure hate to cast aspersions against innocent dolphins!
Aykroyd sure looks thinner in that link, of course back then I was younger, thinner, and had more hair!.
I think about this very question every day as well as discuss it often…today in fact.
Recently a local officer shot and mortally wounded a man coming at him with a knife.
In my opinion the officer had no choice.
A weapon with a lethal attack is reason to fire.
If someone is standing and threatening me or those in my charge, the moment I see a weapon I will fire. Knife, bat, gun or….
If their is bodily harm intended to me or mine I will use what I have.
Again, the moment an advance is made at a distance close enough for me or mine to not have sufficient time to leave or if others are in danger because of the perpetrators advance….
Bare hands can be a very effective weapon. If you are not able to counter an attacker with your bare hands, tools are called for. I had to shoot a man to save my life. His only weapon was his hands. And I didn’t wait for him to grab hold of me either.
Between “Oh” and “carp”
Commonly called the highway expletive. First you say it then you do it.
Done it a couple dozen times in the course of my jobs… autopilot just kind of comes on, reverting to training and such.
Of course, everyone here has thought about those questions. The last one is also too vague.
It has to be a reaction. Otherwise it is premeditated .
So if you had known the future, the exact same action would be murder?
If you had known the future you would have avoided the situation in the first place.
Most of carry because we don’t expect anything to happen not because we do.
Not necessarily, I can think of an unlimited number of scenarios where one might well not opt to avoid a draw that they knew the results of. Also, my question above remains unanswered still.
The assailant has to have capability, opportunity and intent to deal serious harm or death. Your resonse shall only continue for as long as needed to stop the attacker.
You need not predict the future. Court cases have established that, it depends on the defender’s perspective as a rational, mentally capable human being.
Say, an extreme case, where the guy is holding an airsoft with the orange tip removed, he seems like a healthy adult male capable of firing a gun accurately, and he’s pointing it at your direction now. You’d be justified but you need a hell of a good lawyer in this one.
He may be holding a mere airsoft. He may actually be blind and lunatic. He may be aiming at somebody behind you at 4 o clock. Doesnt matter. It’s the defender’s perspective.
In present day America any confronation with a criminal is a threat of death or previous bodily harm. There are no gentleman criminals anymore who will always be satisfied with property alone. The category of non violent offender is an urban legend concocted by bleeding hearts and anti-government zealots. However, his basic advice is correct. Always go with “Don’t get noticed, run away if you are and only use deadly force when you are out of options.”
When running away, crying for mercy and/or complying no longer assures getting out without serious harm.
“You dont have to pull out a gun to save a stranger” well, yes i would, before I met my wife.
And a note on property, although it’s NOT a deadly force scenario. Self defense’s justification is that human lives are important and precious and worth saving. But mind you properties are traded for with people’s hardwork and time, aka part of their lives, that couldve been spent elsewhere instead of working their arses off. So “no defense with force for property” is plain idiocy instilled my libtards
In general, I would draw my gun when the confrontation gets physical and serious.
At home, anytime there’s an unexpected thunk at the door, I get the gun.
In public, once a weapon comes into play, whether purpose-built or improvised, I would draw my gun. If someone decides to get into contact range and start laying hands on people, that’s the time to go for the gun. If anyone ever grabs or tries to grab, I go for the gun.
I would draw my gun once it becomes clear that the person on the other end is not interested in civilized conversation and wants to get physical.
What about when someone comes to your house and says “I’m going to come back and put you in a box.” He came back with a shotgun and put 3 people in 3 boxes. Wake Forest, NC.
Capability to do harm, opportunity to do harm, and intention to do harm.
I know exactly what would cause me to draw my pistol.
I also know that, if the incident “made the news”, the entire Internet, that wasn’t there, would have been able to:
Avoid the attacker through 100%, 360 degree, 24/7, horizon to horizon situational awareness
Use their superior verbal de-escalation skills to eliminate the need for a violent altercation
Have no need to use their weapon because of their astounding unarmed, close-combat, hand-to-hand, martial arts wushu
If all of that failed, they would have drawn a better gun, faster, from a better holster and shot the bad guy deader with fewer shots from farther away.
Just make sure the incident is captured on video so we can really critique your performance.
There you go.
Insinuating that my opsec and gray man abilities are so inferior as to actually render me visible to surveillance equipment.
Imagine if I was wearing cargo pants. Or a beard. Or any article of clothing with a firearms-related slogan or logo.
All across the gun culture keyboards would be aflame with outraged indignation!!
“Did you see the smoke coming off his gun at around 1:14? He’s using the wrong lube.”
Then when there was a pause in the fight, you failed to do a press check after your tactical reload.
Someone on here said his question was not answered.
Seems to me it has been answered well in most of these.
I disagree with one one remark that most carry expecting nothing to happen.
I believe most carry hoping nothing will happen but expect it to so if it does it will not be a surprise and they will react accordingly, with instant and accurate threat assessment.
That was me.
Unless you live in Chiraq or similar locale or carry valuables as part of your job you are carrying a gun or any other weapons as insurance against surprise. My basic point is that if you have foreknowledge of a threat you simply wouldn’t go there unless you had to. It’s the old avoid stupid people, doing stupid things in stupid places thing. We try to avoid trouble as a matter of course but the gun is there in case trouble come looking for you.
I am sure there are few gun owners who think the gun makes them invincible and will take greater risks because they are armed just as there are idiots who don’t slow down in a snowstorm because they have four wheel drive, traction control and anti-lock brakes.
If I feel I or my wife are in imminent danger of bodily harm by a person or persons I can not handle unarmed, i will draw my weapon. If the sight of my weapon does not immediately stop them from their aggression I will protect myself and my wife. That is my standard and I have thought it through thoroughly.
If using my weapon to protect myself and my wife becomes necessary, we are both signed up under USCCA’s Silver Plan for defensive firearm use liability protection, and we have a retained law firm that specializes in the lawful use of a firearm in self defense. You have to look at all the angles.
Even if you are legally justified in shooting someone and you are not charged, just look at how many of these dirt bag’s families try to say “he was a nice boy who was trying to get his life in order.” We know it’s pure BS, but they will try to sue you, so be protected. No, this isn’t a paid ad for the USCCA, but what they offer is well worthwhile.
Think about it.
Marc Victor has the best way (IMO) to determine when to draw your firearm. Scroll down to #5:
People will either run toward the sound of gunfire or away. It is how we are wired. In simpler form some watch a fight while others jump in to break it up, some of these are also driven by who is fighting.
To not intervene when a innocent person is being viciously attacked when you have the skill and means to stop it is cowardly. You must only wait long enough to assertain the true situation, threat and excessive force being applied by one on another that could cause death or serious bodily injury.
Be a good witness? You can still respond and do that. By your statements, a armed teacher should not respond to people being murdered in another classroom? A person should not intervene when he hears and sees a woman getting raped? It seem you are too concerned protecting your rice bowl from being kicked over then compassion for the lives of others.
Let me be perfectly clear: If I see a guy wearing a LE identifying clothing and he is kicking a unresponsive person in the head; I would intervene as needed to stop it. You however, follow the don’t get involved mindset. I avoid trouble, walk away from adverse encounters but I will not turn my back or just get video of a vicious lopsided attack. It is about decision making and choice. I will accept any burden it brings, you can keep eating your rice.