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Elmer Fudd (right) (courtesy

Last week, Gerald Patrick Marr shot and killed a 31-year-old mother and her daughter and then shot and killed himself. Within hours, Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America’s Facebook page waved the bloody shirt. The only [semi] interesting thing about their post: they didn’t bother to specifically state what new law would have prevented the tragedy (hint: none). There are gun owners who sympathize with MDA’s intentionally oblique crusade for “sensible” restrictions on gun ownership. Foremost amongst them, “Fudds” – hunters who can’t understand why people want to own modern sporting rifles. And, by extension, “high-capacity” handguns. [See: letter to the editor after the jump.]  Do you know anyone like that? . . .

The July 30 murderous act in Fayetteville has changed my mind.

I am a 40-year NRA member and have stood behind that organization’s mind-set over gun control until this aforementioned murderous act. The NRA’s mind-set seems to be that gun owners are and will always be totally passive. That they will never become angry, in love, out of love, jealous, able to defend their actions in accordance with the law or experience any of the human emotions that come upon a person and make him or her decide to kill.

I firmly believe in the 2nd Amendment and our right to bear arms, for only with its protection will we remain free. A government that would decide to oppress its people must fear an armed citizenry. We may be approaching that point.

Pick up any hunting publication, and they speak of long-shot kills of 300 yards or more. Where is the real need for the quick second or third shot? I have been hunting deer for more than 60 years and have never fired more than two shots at one.

We need to take a closer look at the weapons we allow in people’s hands. We outlawed machine guns; now we need to take a closer look at semi-automatic long guns.

Fred Raber
Spring Lake

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  1. Oh, yeah! I know a number of hunters who are against concealed carry, never mind open carry!

    And thank you for using “Fudd” instead of FUD or FUDD like some do. I think they assume it is some acronym. It’s not.

    And since when did we outlaw machine guns? There were more than 3.1 million NFA registered weapons in the U.S. as of March 2012. That includes more than 488,000 machine guns. The author of that letter is an idiot.

      • But that doesn’t fit into their sentences when they say “He’s a FUD.” It’s “He’s a Fudd.” 😀

      • Exactly on the “We’ve banned machine guns” statement. I think this joker is not and never has been an NRA member or he would know about the NFA of 1934.
        IF he’s been long-time member and is this ignorant, he is too ignorant to vote, and should be the first to disarm himself.

        • He throws this in the middle which contradicts the rest of his “mind-set”:

          “I firmly believe in the 2nd Amendment and our right to bear arms, for only with its protection will we remain free. A government that would decide to oppress its people must fear an armed citizenry. We may be approaching that point.”

          So what is the problem with owning any and all types of firearms?
          Logic fail as well as his NRA “mind-set” statement. I have never heard any NRA member or representative claim that armed people will never commit a crime. The NRA mindset is more in line with protecting the RKBA and to educate and promote safety. What the end user decides to do with his firearm can not be blamed on the 2nd amendment or the NRA or gun advocate.
          Seemed fake to me but then again, maybe that is the “mind-set” of a Fudd.

        • @Michael in GA says:

          “…So what is the problem with owning any and all types of firearms? … I have never heard any NRA member or representative claim that armed people will never commit a crime.”

          Which is precisely why we need MORE armed sane responsible citizens! (to deter or stop the crimes on the spot, of course.)

          Speaking of sanity, to my way of thinking, anyone who commits murder is by definition insane because sane people don’t commit murder!

    • Agreed on the idiocy statement. Raber is clearly presuming a large number of things including:

      – technology never advances or there is no need to technical advancement;
      – what’s good enough for his Daddy, his Daddy’s Daddy, his Daddy’s Daddy’s Daddy, etc.;
      – presumes everyone uses the firearm for only the purposes he agrees with;
      – presumes that because he doesn’t value something there is no inherent value in it at all; and
      – everyone should think like him.

      Raber (and folks who think like him) seem to forget that their bolt actions are “new fangled” too compared to the flintlocks, ye olde fire lance, and arquebus. If flintlocks were good enough at one point, then he should give up his bolt action and go with what’s good enough.

    • Are they against carrying personally or are they against anyone’s right to carry? If they think it is ok but choose not to then that is not a Fudd but if they support restrictions on everyone then yeah, that is a Fudd or worse. I don’t know any Fudds but that may be because I don’t differentiate between an infridgement or a total ban. “You are either 100% in support of the Constitution or you are against it”. Derrick Grayson

  2. I belong to a sportsman’s club with many members who are more into fishing/hunting than are into firearms for their own sake.

    Still, the first thing you see when you walk into the club house is a big sign: “My guns protect your right to tell me I shouldn’t be able to own them.”

    So, are there Fudds amongst? Probably, but they at least have the decency to keep their Fuddness to themselves.

  3. I don’t know a single Fudd, though I understand the concept. I avoid liberals of all stripes, and don’t really live near or work with any of them.

    • The irony is that most Fudds I’ve met are extremely conservative.

      Fudds usually = hunters. I don’t know too many ultra liberal hunters although I have met a few.

  4. “I firmly believe in the 2nd Amendment and our right to bear arms, for only with its protection will we remain free. A government that would decide to oppress its people must fear an armed citizenry. We may be approaching that point.”

    What the hell are we supposed to use man, harsh language?

    Seriously though, the same person that wrote this paragraph wrote the rest of that letter? Where is my “I dont think it means what you think it means” meme… Fred has clearly no understanding of slipperly slope or history, Martin Neimoller (First they came for the Jews… etc quote) comes to mind…
    It continually blows my mind that people have so quickly forgotten WW2

    My dad used to be among the fudd mindset, luckily he has come to his own realizations about it with a little nudging and some entertaining arguments along the line 🙂

    • Glad it’s not just me, I was thinking that letter sounded a little schizophrenic. Maybe a put-up job by a closet anti?

    • I am there with you. The writing style and the flow of thought take a 180 degree turn in the middle of the text. It is like the person who spliced it together had no clue what it meant…or the guy has multiple personality disorder.

    • What I get from this letter is that the author believes that some (people like him) should bear arms (the ones he and others like him think are appropriate) to defend against oppression and that anybody that wants to own or carry anything with more firepower is too unstable to be trusted.

  5. Known plenty, just recently (partly) converted my father. He still doesnt see the need I have for my AK, but his CPL should be in his wallet by the end of September. When will everyone realize that there is no mention of hunting or deer in the Bill of Rights?

    • ” I go hunting only because I get to shoot things.”

      I dont mean to be rude, but just reading that, it sounds like a very sociopathic comment.

      If you shoot it, you should eat it.

      • “If you shoot it, you should eat it.” That, my good fellow, is your opinion. An opinion which (so long as you do not attempt to coerce compliance therewith upon others) is no more, and less valid than that of the man who hunts just to shoot things.

        Here’s mine: I think you’d be hard pressed to find, in these United States, more than .001% of people who must hunt in order to eat. For the rest of them/us, hunting is a choice. It would be more efficient, more safe, less violent and less complicated if we simply allowed farmers to grow our food for us rather than procuring it ourselves. Specialization of labor its called. So, for almost everyone who hunts, it’s a choice. You do it because you like it. You don’t need to explain your reasons for liking it to me, and I don’t need to explain my reasons for liking it to you.

        To demand such explanations from others, or to insist that their motives match your own is, in my opinion, “sociopathic.”

        Do you see how minding our own business is in everyone’s interests?

        • Less violent than killing things to kill them? Agreed. I for many years had the exact same viewpoint on things, especially when it came to bird hunting.

          I dont think Ive ever met anyone who actually hunts (just to eat) because they cant just goto a store that doesnt live in AK, our modern conveniences make it much more efficient to go quickly acquire what we need and get back home to our modern comforts.

          I merely commented on a statement which I read at face value, ideally for some possible discussion as that is honestly what I enjoy most from TTAG. There are a plethora of people much more intelligent than I am that I continually learn things from each day. Some of them want to discuss/inform and sadly others are less receptive…

          So instead of it seeming as an attempt to invalidate, its more like a “hmm what gives”, why I used should not MUST! and maybe followed it with an ACHTUNG! 🙂

          I sincerely hope that doesnt sound like a demand for explanation or forcing someone to convert to the belief of another (reminds me of some story I read on ISIS earlier). Im totally for minding my own business and almost universally prefer to be left alone, but the actions of other people affect us all, do they not?

        • @ TaylorTX,
          I enjoy the discussion as well and some of the snippy tone of my post was unintended or at least not deserved.

          I am amped up about this issue because it strikes at the core of the identity of the “gun culture.” Personally, I get here via my love for Liberty and I think that anyone who loves Liberty is a natural ally, whether they hunt/shoot/own guns or not. To me, the problem with a “Fudd” is that they are only interested in preserving the freedoms which they personally are making use of. Such a person appears to be an ally but has no problem turning on you once the subject matter changes.

      • “I dont mean to be rude, but just reading that, it sounds like a very sociopathic comment.

        If you shoot it, you should eat it.”

        How do you he does NOT eat it, just because he enjoys shooting it?

        • Of course I eat it. And my kids too. And like the other guy said, nobody hunts purely for food these days. It is probably more efficient to work minimum wage and buy meat than to hunt for meat. Unless you have moose wandering your property or something.

        • I did not and was hoping he would inform me.

          @Jeremy Never had moose but sure would like to try some. I hope one day when I have some kids I will be able to share it with them as well.

        • I hunt and when I bag a deer or other tasty game it goes into my freezer and the freezer of my church food bank. And I hunt with everything from a flintlock to a 45-90 Winchester depending on the game… But I also do varmint control and coyote and ferrel dog packs belong on neither mine nor the dinner table of those who use the food bank. While I may get one or two with one of my winchester lever action rifles the rest of the pack is another problem and that is when my AR-180 and its 30 round magazine becomes the perfect tool for the job. Most of the hunters I help at the open day we have for non members to sight in at our gun club will agree… The ones I know do not fit the Fudd stereotype and I have helped a few to realize the the modern rifle has a place in most hunters gun safe.

      • I don’t think I’ve ever had a better time shooting than prairie dog shooting. Come on up to Eastern Colorado and Western Kansas, what do you want on your dog?

  6. This “Fudd” is only looking at one tragic event scenario. What about the numerous defensive event scenarios where multiple rounds are “needed”, not just desired. A way of gauging this would be ‘are you willing ban semi autos from use by the police departments that protect us?’ The police shoot quite a few “innocent victims” by accident every year.

  7. I was one from the time I was born until about three years ago. My dad is an avid hunter and still somewhat a Fudd. I had my lever action .30/30 and H&R single shot 12GA since I was 13 and didn’t see the need for anyone to have a semi-auto other than a Woodsmaster.
    I also didn’t see why anyone would need a pistol either. They were horrible for hunting.
    That changed after my great grandparents were beaten, raped, and killed after 5 thugs broke into their house. I realized self-defense is as good a reason or better to own a gun than hunting, and they required different types of weapons.
    Cut to modern day and I own a pair of AR-15s and three handguns and CC daily. I even talked my dad into buying a pistol for my mom to keep around the house just in case.

  8. My father is a Fudd, my brothers are Fudds, my mother was as rabidly anti-gun and leftist as they come (practically card-carrying Democrat–the only thing she hated about Obama was that he was black) So yeah, I know a lot.

    It does not help that every outdoor rifle range I’ve been to (and every one I know of) has a 3-round limit for all rifles (no more than 3 rounds loaded at any time. Violation either means removal from the club or in the case of the state gamelands, a HEFTY fine). It’s why I haven’t bothered to buy any extra magazines for my Ruger 10/22. What’s the point? I’ll never get to actually use them.

    And don’t ask about indoor ranges. There are TWO indoor ranges open to the general public in the Pittsburgh area, both are over an hour drive away and neither allow rifles of any caliber. All the other indoor ranges are owned by private Fudd clubs and don’t even ask to be allowed in–they’re all full, and there are often long wait lists.

    • That’s sad. My gun club allows rapid fire and self-defense tactical practice. In fact, we’ve set up some special ranges just for practicing tactical shooting: moving, close up self-defense drills, ground fighting, etc.

    • Jim, last I looked into it, Anthony’s Arms out past Century III lets you use .22 rifles at their range. Never shot there, but it’s worth a look.

    • Wow. I belong to a club that I suppose could be described as Fudd’s in Transition in central PA. At least we are allowed to load 10 rounds at once.

    • Jim, I know you live in Pittsburgh, and this may be a relief to you:

      The WV DNR no longer associates having guns in public fields or woods as intent for hunting. This law changed last month. (Unless you have a hunting dog, dead game, or traps with you.)

      This has radically changed the idea of target shooting in the woods / wildlife management areas!

      There is a secluded cliff face that people have been using for years in the area to test guns or target shoot. It is on the very edge of a piece of wildlife management area, and was sort of grey-ish area in terms of legality due to it being a wildlife management area in of itself. There’s three ranges (one indoor, two outdoor), but one is too far away (40 miles), one is hellishly expensive, and the other does not permit handgun target shooting if people are doing 500 or 1000 yard range practice (Which is often).

      I shoot all of my videos at the cliff face now, since it is a safe, sturdy, secluded and reliable backdrop for my lead.

      You could think about coming down to WV?

  9. “I have been hunting deer for more than 60 years and have never fired more than two shots at one.”

    How many deer have shot back at you, Fred? How many times has one or more deer attacked you, Fred?

    He reminds me of this guy: “Citizens should only be able to own shotguns and rifles for hunting.”

    My bet is that Fred has forgotten the proposed “Anti-sniper rifle” bill in 1995 (?) that would have outlawed any decent deer or big-game rifle by description. Stupidity should hurt (and it often does).

    • Another guy that only thinks of deer when he thinks of hunting. Apparently he is ignorant of the wild boar problem through out most of the USA. Hog hunting is fast shooting with lots of targets, and the AK and AR rifles are the most popular and efficient. I guess he has never been varmit hunting either, prairie dogs, ground hogs, coyotes, feral dogs, rats, etc. Again lot of quick shooting needed when the targets run in packs. I used to be a Fudd, but no longer. I got converted during the Rodney King (God rest his soul) riots in Los Angeles back in the 1990’s. When I saw the Korean business owners standing alone against looting mobs, I saw that their weapon of choice was a modern semi-auto rifle or shot guns with mag extensions.

  10. Fudds seem to be pretty uncommon, at least where I live.
    All I know is that everyone has an opinion, but everyone also has a right. Opinions do not trump rights (without a constitutional amendment). Or shouldn’t. Sucks that people think otherwise.
    Allowing people to change the constitution without an amendment makes every single right meaningless. Anyone know about the alien and sedition acts? Look em up.

  11. While I have met a few Fudds, I’m not sure I believe Mr. Raber is being totally honest with us. First he tells us he realizes the need to protect against tyranny, even to the point of admiting we may be heading in that direction. Then he starts talking about hunting deer and how you don’t neer a semi-auto to hunt deer. These two paragraphs indicate such a strong tonal dissonance as to be written by different authors. Or one author who is making stories up about someone who claims to have been pro 2A for 40 years before deciding semi-autos are too dangerous for people to own, thanks to a single event. This is either fiction or the person is deeply irrational.

      • ShaunL,

        Sigh. No it isn’t. There is an obvious distinction between the mentally handicapped and the use of that word as a pejorative. I am sorry that your sensibilities are so delicate that actually I have to explain the distinction to you.

        In the same vein dummy, imbecile, dufus, simpleton, stupid, idiot, halfwit, ignoramus, moron, fool, dunce and puddin’ head are all equally offensive. They’ve all been used to describe the mentally impaired. Have you ever used one of those words? Perhaps you should save that self-righteous admonishment for yourself and keep it off the internet.

        Frankly, I am not going to tap-dance through life worrying about what words will offend people. Words only have the power that we give them. People who understand that simple truth are helping to deprive such words of their strength. In doing so, they’re helping to break down the imagined barriers that exist between different groups of people. I like to think of those folks as “part of the solution.” On the other hand, we have people like yourself; folks who continuously lend credence to words that deserve none. “Part of the problem,” if you will. Over-sensitivity, hyper-defensiveness and mock outrage over words actually counteracts what everyone is trying to achieve: it drives us further apart.

        At least that’s my take on this. Others may label people who get butthurt by words on the internet as dummies, imbeciles, dufuses, simpletons, idiots, halfwits, ignoramuses, morons, fools, dunces, puddin’ heads and retards(gasp!) but I couldn’t possibly comment.

        Grow a thinker skin. You’ll be doing yourself a world of good and a lot of good for the world.

        • dummy, imbecile, dufus, simpleton, stupid, idiot, halfwit, ignoramus, moron, fool, dunce and puddin’ head

          Hey, Moe used to use about half of those on the Three Stooges!

  12. Most of my encounters with other handgun owners is as a member of a women’s shooting leauge, so nope, don’t know any. And don’t want to know any. Get enough grief from people who do not appreciate the joyment of shooting a stainless steel revolver!

  13. Know plenty, unfortunately. Some are family members/friends who support our RKBA, but they are total fudds and ignorant when it comes to AR’s, magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, etc. All they know is what they’ve seen on TV. They are the ones who get their CCP, buy a gun, take it to the range once and then it sits in a drawer for years gathering dust. They make funny faces when you tell them about your latest AR build, or suggest they should actually be practiced with a firearm that they own and might (God forbid) actually have to use to defend themselves. I’m constantly trying to break the myths and illusions they have in their heads regarding firearms. Like racking a shotgun scares people off, and they want a really small gun because it’s easier to carry (which they never do anyway) and then are all confused when it kicks like a mule. Many of them still think AR’s ‘spray’ bullets, the whole 9 yards. You’d be surprised how many on ‘our side’ don’t know jack about firearms. And still manage to own one.

  14. i know a few fudds, they are the ones that got me into firearms. i hunt but went on my own to build a AR, they are showed some interest, but the cost of a build turned them away. but when i say that antis are against high powered riffles they jump up, because they do not consider a 223 or 300 blackout to be high powered.

  15. I know 2 that were until
    they became sheep door kicked in @ 0300
    wife & 12 y/o raped & sodomized. 2 weeks later he bought Glock 23 for the wife, a 22 for him & a .revolver for the house a ccw class a month after. Now carries 24/7, little late but better than never

  16. I’m always suspect of the “I was an NRA member since before Jesus until now…” quotes like the one above in the article. It’s simply an attempt to gain an air of credibility before trashing the 2nd.

    “Pick up any hunting publication, and they speak of long-shot kills of 300 yards or more.”
    Sounds like a military grade, battle field sniper rifle to me… Or am I getting ahead of the gun-control rhetoric?

      • Only if you are really hungry and dont mind the shakes…

        I was referring to animals of course, just not the 2 legged varmint variety 😛

    • I agree.

      I’m coming up on being a half century NRA Life Member. BFD. I’ve also been donating blood for 30 years. Same thing – that’s nice, but no big deal…

      And as far as eating what you shot, feed your home invaders that have been “reduced to possession” to the pigs.

      • It always gets interesting when gunners breaking bad drag out the “Life member for umpteen years” as a source of credibility.

        Being a Life member means they paid the dues level and haven’t died yet (and haven’t taken the effort to actually “quit” in just about every case if they actually *are* a Life member). It isn’t a impenetrable argument from authority as the guys making that case seem to always think it is…

  17. There are plenty of Fudds in rural areas where everyone has a .22 for varmint control and some people hunt, but they have never even considered buying a handgun.

    For all you urbanites: Imagine living in a community where people generally don’t lock their houses, vehicles are parked outside and the keys are never removed from the ignition. That’s life in rural America, and when there is no crime problem, you never need to think about self-defense.

    Like their urban counterparts, rural gun owners just need to be educated about the Second Amendment, and made aware of the success of right-to-carry laws across the country in bringing down violent crime rates.

    • Like their urban counterparts, rural gun owners just need to be educated about the Second Amendment, and made aware of the success of right-to-carry laws across the country in bringing down violent crime rates.

      I think that may be the root of our problem. Just as rural folk can’t grasp the notion of a high crime rate. city folk can’t grasp the notion of NO crime.

      Now what?

      • No crime in rural areas?

        That is not true, just because you’re a country boy/girl doesn’t mean there isn’t something messed up in your head (or evil in your heart).

        I talk from experience, recently a guy was chopped up in my area.

    • I just came back from a stay in very rural KY. Meth and oxy are making rural America near as dangerous as the inner cities. The only real difference is that in the rural communities you’ll know the family name of the monster attacking you.

      • Central WV ringing in here. Our Guns Saves Lives map is beautiful, but if I go on a long enough bike ride, I swear I can find at least one trailer smelling like they’re cooking meth.

        Guns keep crime down in my area, but drugged up crazies are becoming more and more brash about their means of plundering lately. Ex: Oct 2013, they attempted to break into my basement storm door at 9:00PM with a brick and some kind of prying tool. I turned on our indoor lights, they kept banging the door with the brick.

        I waited WAY out of view of entry for a few minutes, waiting to see if they were able to continue breaking in. They ended up giving up, and leaving the brick behind. I swear, only some hopped up junkie tries to break into a house before 10:00 news comes on.

        • Made it as far as Wayne, WV on this last trip. Family thru out Eastern KY, WV and Ohio. Getting the same reports from all of them. Nobody leaves their doors unlocked on keys in their cars anymore and most keep a loaded gun handy.

  18. I firmly believe in the 2nd Amendment and our right to bear arms, for only with its protection will we remain free. A government that would decide to oppress its people must fear an armed citizenry. We may be approaching that point.
    So, we need a well armed civilian population (a militia, one might say) to avoid tyranny. That makes sense.

    I have been hunting deer for more than 60 years and have never fired more than two shots at one.
    So deer hunters don’t need high capacity, rapid fire guns. I’ll accept that. And there’s nothing implying having such a gun is bad for deer hunting, just that it’s not absolutely necessary. Of course there are animals where that is a requirement, like pest control shoots of Texas hogs.

    But then that’s why we have lots of gun options for lots of situations. Bolt action .308 for the deer. 30-round AR-15 for the hogs. 19-round 9mm pistol for the muggers and rapists. Etc.

    We need to take a closer look at the weapons we allow in people’s hands. We outlawed machine guns; now we need to take a closer look at semi-automatic long guns.
    I’m not sure exactly how this fits with the first quote above. Semi-auto rifles would be great for resisting government oppression. A bolt action rifle would be better than a muzzle-loader…or a sharpened stick, but unless I was acting as a sniper, I’d rather have my 30-round AR than my 5- or 10-round Rem700.

    • “Gun owners that don’t vote”….. ooooooooo they are the worst kind of Fudd. Can you volunteer to drive them to the polls on election day? Or suggest they get a mail in ballot and that you will help them fill it out? Just like our opposition does!

  19. Around here Fudd means someone who hunts but knows nothing about firearms or firearm safety but think they are God’s gift of firearms knowledge because they hunt. And yes, I know many, many, many of them. A very large portion of firearm owners are Fudds.

  20. I fully qualify as some kind of Neo-Luddite and/or Fudd.
    I do own a couple of semi-auto handguns (both were priced too good to pass up) and one auto-loading .22 rifle (Marlin Model 60), but the majority of my firearms are decidedly analog:

    Mostly revolvers, most of them blued. All of them have a set of wood grips (though sometimes the stainless guns will wear rubber target grips at the range).
    And even the bottom feeders are hammer-fired.
    In long guns, it’s all pump and break open shotguns, bolt action rifles and a couple of single shots. All of them are blued steel and most of the stocks are wood (only the HD shotguns get to sport synthetic stocks).
    All the sights on my guns are open/iron, except on two hunting guns, which are scoped. I was going to write “both long and handguns” because I know that optics on handguns are a thing now. But I figured it was pretty clear that I’m not the kind of guy who’d be running a red dot on a handgun.
    In fact, I don’t care if a gun even has a rail (except for the aforementioned scoped long guns), and nothing on any of my guns ever needs a battery.
    And my wish list consists of a lot of wheel guns and some 1911s (to compliment the .45ACP revolvers, of course).
    So, I’m basically a Fudd. Except that…

    My main, and almost exclusive, reason for owning firearms is defensive.
    I do hunt. In part for sport (though I only hunt what I eat and I eat what I hunt), but mainly because it’s a skill that may someday be useful. And no, not because I’m some kind of a prepper. But if both my wife and I lost our jobs and were really struggling, knowing the woods and how to take game would be useful, even if civilization is humming along just fine.
    It’s also a fun way to spend some time with friends and the only motivation I can think of to get up at the crack of dawn and go hike in the woods.
    But if I never got to hunt again, I’d be just fine. It’s not a lifestyle thing for me and certainly isn’t my raison d’armes.
    I also don’t play gun games, do competitive shooting, etc. I’ve thought about and even made plans to get involved a couple of times, but it never worked out. Probably because my interest in it was lukewarm at best.
    In fact, that’s a lot like my interest in modern sporting rifles. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve had a Russian Saiga, Yugo AK-74, M&P15 Sport or PSA blem lower/upper/BCG/LPK, etc. in my online shopping cart, only to balk before hitting the “confirm” button, I’d be halfway to one of those halloweenish Black Rain Ordnance receivers (you know, the ones with the nifty skulls).
    So, unlike the proverbial Fudd/sports shooter, I get it. I get that guns and gun rights go beyond what I happen to be into.
    And I fully understand that every infringement, even on something that I have no interest in at all, is an infringement on MY rights as well. Even if I could somehow be sure that the antis would stop far short of restricting the guns I own, I would oppose them at every incremental taking of OUR rights. I’m a staunch believer in the right to keep and bear arms.
    In fact, given my position on the issue, I’m what most people would call a Second Amendment absolutist. Except it’s not even about the 2nd Amendment for me. While I’m certainly thankful that the Founders codified the RKBA in the Bill of Rights, I, along with many others (like the Heller Court), understand that the Constitution does not grant that right.
    So, just because I don’t personally want a Punisher decal laden AR-10 (and think it’s kinda silly), that doesn’t mean the next guy should be banned from getting 100 of them if that’s his thing. Instead, I’m 100% for the unlicensed purchase, ownership, transfer and carry of any firearm and/or accessory. That includes suppressors, magazines of any capacity, SBRs, sawed-off shotguns, AR pistols, full-auto, etc., even though I have no personal interest in any of those (well maybe a suppressor for my .22 target pistol).

    • If you fully support the right, then by definition you are not a “Fudd” regardless of what your personal taste in firearms might be.

  21. Yep. My grandfather who co taught me to shoot (the internet was the other instructor) is a fudd. He said: “no one needs an assault rifle to hunt” and I didn’t press the subject.

    • My father was a Fudd. He was coming around, but he passed away before he made the transition. I blame my uncle-Dad started his conversion after my uncle died.To his credit, he taught me to shoot a BB gun at 5 and a .22 when I was 8. I got a .22 for Christmas when I was 11, and a .30-.30 lever when I was 14, so he was definitely RKBA. Just wasn’t up with the MSR trend.

  22. The only [semi] interesting thing about their post: they didn’t bother to specifically state what new law would have prevented the tragedy (hint: none).

    … or how existing laws have failed to have their stated effect. Isn’t this the case for every anti’s argument? Non-sequiturs intended to invoke emotion. Never a rationale or a point, other than “Let’s just pass more gun laws.”

  23. I have been described as a Fudd in the past, although I don’t think I am. I own a pump shotgun, a bolt action rifle, a muzzleloader, and a revolver. I only use them for hunting and occasionally at the range. I don’t have a concealed carry permit, and I don’t open carry. I won’t buy a semi-auto gun of any kind.

    The reason why I don’t own semi-autos or carry in public is simply because I don’t want to. I don’t begrudge those who do, and certainly don’t think either semi-autos or carrying in public should be banned. Although I own exclusively “Fudd guns,” I don’t think I am a Fudd; I simply have different tastes in guns than most other “non-Fudds.”

      • As I said, for no reason other than I don’t want one. I don’t want to stop you from buying and owning them, and think that the 2nd Amendment protects your right to do so.

        I’d prefer not being called names for my choice not to own one.

        • Because I prefer to spend my money on other things. Because the guns I do own are sufficient for my purposes. Because I have no desire to own one.

          If you believe these reasons somehow make me a Fudd and anti-Second Amendment, then you are the one with the problem, not me.

        • When you pop into a conversation like this and make unsupported assertions, then declare you won’t ever buy a semi-auto don’t expect a Truth About GUNS Site not to press you for some coherent reasons for your choice. If you get butt hurt over that, that’s your problem, not mine.

        • Unsupported assertions? What are you talking about? My reason was pretty coherent: I don’t want to buy one. If you are as pro-liberty as you claim, that should have been enough of an answer.

          Does anyone ever ask you why you don’t own a pink convertible, and accuse you of wanting to ban such cars because you choose not to own one?

          I also made clear, in my initial post, that I am steadfastly against banning semi-autos, despite my choice not to own any.

        • You are being obtuse. You are on a GUN forum and you declared you will never buy a semi-auto and your only reason you are willing to give is, “Because I don’t want to.”

          And then you get a case of hurt feelings when asked for a reason you “don’t want to.”

          If you ask me why I don’t want to buy a pink caddy, I’d tell you because I don’t sell Mary Kay.

          Now, why won’t you buy a semi-auto? Other than “because I don’t want to.”

          Welcome to the Fudd club, buddy.

        • I’m not being obtuse; you’re being unnecessarily antagonistic and dense (but perhaps you can’t help the second part). I came onto a “GUN” blog because I own guns, and fully support the second amendment—including semi-autos, which I made clear in my initial post. I gave my reason, and then even clarified it for you, despite your aggressive and demeaning approach, and you still demand more details. What can I tell you? I just don’t want one, in the same way I don’t want blue curtains or a pickup truck. I’m happy with what I have and want to use my money to buy other things.

          People like you is what is WRONG with Second Amendment defenders. It’s not enough that I believe semi-autos should be legal and freely available, I also have to prove to your satisfaction that I really believe it because I don’t own one. And if you aren’t satisfied, I become a Fudd and anti-Second Amendment. That’s how you drive people away.

        • @dollup15

          Paul McCain is well-known to be antagonistic and dense. He goes after open carriers, yet for some reason you, not caring to own a certain type of firearm, are a “Fudd” even though you support the right. A Fudd, by definition is someone who is willing to throw semi-autos under the bus because no one needs them. That’s very different from your attitude. “No personal interest in one” =/= “No one should have one” and if Paul had one tenth the brains he THINKS he has, he’d be able to see that.

      • The reason why I don’t own semi-autos or carry in public is simply because I don’t want to.

        Read ALL the words. They all convey meaning.

        • You also called him a Fudd. For no reason, since Fuds are those who think no one should own an AR-15 (or other semi-auto rifles).

          His reasons for not wanting to own such are irrelevant; you had no fricking business calling this man a Fudd.

      • When you pop into a conversation like this and make unsupported assertions…

        HOLY SH1T! If I hadn’t grabbed hold and held on for dear life my head would have just exploded. Are you stoned, rev?

        You are being obtuse.

        Oh hell, it happened again!

        Dude, keep to your congregation where people might actually buy the crap that you preach. You’re the most dangerous kind of liar. YOU believe the nonsense you’re trying to sell us

    • That is okay, I have some guns which are not semi-auto and they are fine. I know Vietnam Vets who do not have semi-autos for self defense. Semi-autos are more finicky and need to be cleaned more often than lever and pump guns.

  24. Elmer, please try to understand that it’s not about what guns people should be allowed to own, but rather whether permission should be required at all.

  25. Ok, since inconsistency is the topic, how many non Fudd gun owners give a rats ass about the shredding of the Bill of Rights? The contradictory position of a significant number of posters here is alarming and even suspicious. What good is the 2A if the rest of the Bill of Rights is finished?

    • It is pretty obvious:

      Fudds murder people then they blame rifles (especially the scary onesk( to divert attention away from themselves.

    • Lol, I dunno WHAT we’d do with out those bastions of freedom that prohibit open carry or anything…

      Get over yourselves TX and FL, your gun laws are worse than about half the the states out there…

      • It’s not so much the laws themselves, as it is the stereotypes about guns in these states. Yes, our Texas gun laws are more restrictive than, say, Wyoming or Arizona, but you never hear jokes about the prevalence of guns in Wyoming. Unless I’m just listening to the wrong jokers.

  26. how does homeboy plan to stand up against a tyrannical government that he readily admits: We may be approaching that point.

    Are you going to take them on with your bolt action 30-06?

  27. Thanks for your 40 years of membership with the NRA. However we must ask you to take off the two sided mask and pick (standard cap mags or feel good laws).

    I know something close to fudds. Totally pro gun people who choose not to be NRA members because….. the cost. Worst excuse ever when it comes to something that costs just a little more than one box of ammo.

  28. Yes I know Fudds: my father-in-law and his brother (uncle-in-law if there is such a thing).

    My wife’s cousin and I have tried to educate them to no avail. In my father-in-law’s case his strong emotions are insurmountable. In my “uncle-in-law’s” case, he is an elitist and doesn’t trust the peasant class with basic firearms much less military-style semi-automatic rifles.

    I am happy to report, however, that Fudds are a dying breed. The 40 and under crowd seems to either be totally anti-gun or totally pro-liberty. And all the “converts” seem to be moving from the anti-gun camp into the pro-liberty camp!

  29. I bet Robert Lintner was a Fudd with an ‘arsenal’ of nearly 200 Fudd guns. I also wonder what he thinks about it now, cause he seems a whole lot like my dad.

  30. I hunt. Always have and, God willing, will continue to do so for a long, long time.
    Where I hunt, I cannot legally do so with any semi-auto except shotgun ( with certain restrictions) and taking a shot beyond 100-150 yards is highly unlikely. I don’t think I can even carry a semi-auto pistol for protection while hunting.
    All that this equals to is jack spit where the second amendment is concerned. The 2nd wasn’t written with hunters in mind. It was written with politicians in mind.
    Fwiw, people can and do hunt with semi-autos, especially in the south west. Prairie dogs and now wild pigs and other varmints so please don’t give me that line of building where you say ,” I’m a hunter but…..” Picking up a rem 700 and shooting a deer doesn’t make you an expert on my rights anymore than skinning a deer make me qualified to be a plastic surgeon

  31. I used to run into plenty of Fudds when I lived in MA. My state representative was the somewhat dim scion of a wealthy North Shore family. He wasn’t smart enough for the family business, so they got him a political office. He was quite into bespoke English side-by-sides and bird hunting. I remember one conversation I had with him re some proposed additional restrictions on our limited rights. He said, “You handgun people take this Second Amendment stuff way too seriously.” I said, “Maybe you don’t take it seriously enough.” I wanted to say something else, but we were in mixed company.

  32. Here in Blighty, many people can’t even remember a time where armed self defence was legal, and those who do have have had plenty of time to absorb the anti-gun agitprop spouted by the government run media. People are shocked by even the suggestion of pointing a gun at something without fur.

  33. Concerning the British Lee-Enfield SMLE bolt action rifle of WW1:

    “The Pattern 1914 Enfield was some two inches longer and a pound heavier than the Lee-Enfield. So, many Tommies preferred their beloved SMLE. It was easy to handle, held 10 rounds instead of five in the new Pattern ’14 and its bolt action was smooth and reliable if less robust than the Pattern 1914’s. So fast could experienced British riflemen handle their weapon that German frontline troops thought they were facing massed machine gun fire in the opening battles of 1914.”

    Clearly, it is way past time to ban the evil bolt-action assault rifle with its high capacity magazine. At least according to Fudd and libtard logic.

  34. How, exactly, do the Fudds expect the 2A to deter tyranny, when it’s only backed by 1-5 shot capacity hunting rifles?

    These aren’t so much low information people, that’s just a symptom, as they are abject fools. These are people who’ve done precisely zero serious thinking whatsoever about these matters.

  35. “I firmly believe in the 2nd Amendment and our right to bear arms, for only with its protection will we remain free. A government that would decide to oppress its people must fear an armed citizenry. We may be approaching that point.

    Pick up any hunting publication, and they speak of long-shot kills of 300 yards or more. Where is the real need for the quick second or third shot? I have been hunting deer for more than 60 years and have never fired more than two shots at one.”

    Apparently if or when trouble does happen it will be a single person to each home AND only to homes that have 300 yards between the property line and the front door AND they’ll call in advance to warn you to prepare your shot AND they won’t be armed themselves. I now understand all the Fudds, if them’s the rules, no wonder they don’t see a need for an MSR, why didn’t I hear about this before now?

  36. If all hunters understood that the antis HATE them for killing Bambi more than they hate me & TPOTG they would join us. Imagine 20 to 40 million NRA members or similar pro gun groups. Elmer Fudd needs to step up. Especially the shotgun owners. Notice a few shotgun murders in the last year? BTW lighten up rev.

  37. I am not a Fudd, although I have called one. Also slave, and traitor for being so naive as to believe I might voice an opinion contrary to the group consensus, that frankly can get borderline creepy on some discussions, about OCtardianism, or the One True Holy Caliber ( which is of course .40 S&W) or the One Handgun To Rule Them All. (and if you dont know and say the answer with reverence, then surely thou art a heathen…)

    But, I digress, and my point is, I was once more Fudd-ish, and then began to read, and see the light on the virtues, nay superiority, fir example, of the 7.62 in large quantity for porcine pest control, and various more esoteric pursuits.

    But I only reached this limited enlightenment with the patience, and generosity of many, sharing what they knew, not with the metaphorical punch in face of bitter name calling, but the open hand of sharing, wise, humorous, storytelling – the very best being reminiscent of old school writing in Field and Stream, Outdoor Life, and other manly magazines to be found on the reading table of the small town barbershops in the 50s and 60s.

    • Nice post here- made me chuckle. I hear you RLC… i too was once young and uneducated. But i knew enough to keep my silly thoughts to myself until i got educated. And for the record, though i now own a couple of MSRs, they are nowhere near my favorite thing to shoot (give me my M1 Garand EVERYTIME!)

      That said, in reading Mr. Fudd’s letter, he seems like a pretty intelligent human being. I mean, he isn’t some hopeless case yelling, “First they took my jjjerrb, now they woan take my giiiinnn!” But if this guy IS 40 and has been a dues paying member of the NRA for 20 years (can you IMAGINE the number of phone and letter solicitations, hahaha) shouldn’t he be at least SOMEWHAT aware of the facts with MSRs (their use is not JUST about hunting, they do VERY little killing, and the left will just come after something else after they are gone)?

      To your point, most people SHOULD be constantly evolving their position as new data and evidence is presented. If Mr. Fudd IS for real, I hope that he educates himself quickly vs. continuing to feel “enlightened”. He should start with the FBI crime statistics. Today.

  38. I don’t think that guy is even a fudd, I’d bet he’s an anti. Besides the whole non logical 2A is to fight off tyranny/semi should be banned that others already mentioned, there is also the whole was an NRA member for 40 years until the end of July statement. I am calling major bullshit on that, and that he is obviously lying. So your trying to tell me that through all the major incidents for the bast 20 years where the criminal uses a semis you have pretty much been fine. Even after Newton and all those other mass shootings that have happened in the past 20 years, didn’t cause you to think semi’s are bad and should be banned and cause you leave the NRA for defending them, but somehow a relatively minor incident happens and suddenly you completely change your mind. Bullshit. That guy is an Anti hoping that he might rally hunters to support there cause because he knows that they don’t stand a chance if all gun owners stand together.

  39. I am kind of struggling with believing this person’s position too… if he is even remotely educated on this subject, he would know 2, unshakeable truths:

    1) on average, less than 400 (of the 30,000 gun deaths in this country each year including suicides) come from ANY kind of rifle. Bolt, single action, pump, semi… ALL in. Statistically, more people are killed with hands and feet than ANY kind of rifle each year. Banning MSRs achieves NOTHING.

    2) the left’s argument on this is an oxy-moron… for them there IS NO SUCH THING AS reasonable, common sense, gun safety laws. Does Mr. Fudd REALLY believe that if semi-auto rifles are taken away the Brady’s, MDA, MAIG, Handgun Control Inc. will just fold up their tents and move on to another “cause”? Make no mistake, with these people, 2A supporters in every county in every district, in every state in every region are in a never-ending tug of war on this.

    Frankly, this position sounds more like that of my 17 year-old daughter who “gets” both sides of this debate, and longs for their to be a “reasonable compromise” (ahh… to be young again). Grow up Fudd.

  40. Can gun store owners be Fudds? Apparently so. A Virginia Citizens Defense League member brought to their attention a “No loaded guns” sign on the door of Absolute Outdoors in New Kent. EM Ed Levine sent them an email to confirm that policy.

    Jun 30, 2014 10:04 AM
    Hi –
    Someone told me that you guys have a sign on your door that prohibits the lawful carry of firearms by customers (unless they are law enforcement). I just wanted to confirm that before I put the word out to 30,000 Virginia gun owners.

    Ed Levine
    Founder – Virginia Open Carry
    Executive Member – Virginia Citizens Defense League
    NRA – Life member and Instructor
    GOA – member

    Response by gun store owner: 6/30/2014 11:16:22 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:

    You need to add to your list of titles:
    In desperate need of a life
    life long member of the tiny dick club
    Just plain stupid
    Now that better describes you.
    Rick Baker, owner
    I’m usually there everyday so you should drop by and see me little man.

  41. Weapons expert at a local PD during a Q and A with citizens…”No one needs an AR to defend themselves. Use a shotgun, you don’t even have to aim it.”

  42. I have a few uncles that are fudds, I was talking to one about me picking up a ruger gunsight scout and when I mentioned the chabering his words were “308 that’s a sniper rifle” yeah couse we all know that 7mm mag he pulls out one a year is a close range job only good for getting ugly with bambies dad, and the other belongs to that hunting group the antis set up that tried to ban a pile of hunting calibers


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