In the aftermath of the Las Vegas spree killing, the NRA is calling for the ATF to regulate bump fire stocks. No doubt the NRA Powers That Be figured that making them an NFA item was threading the needle: defanging the statists howling for gun control (again, still) while appeasing members who aren’t happy with any gun control legislation. The problem being . . .
gun control advocates are never satisfied, and even NRA members who think “who the hell needs a bump fire stock?” wonder what they’re going to get for giving in to the antis.
Namely, nothing.
Congressman Paul Ryan pulled the silencer-deregulating SHARE Act days after the Mandalay Bay slaughter. And while the NRA’s statement throwing bump fire stocks in the ATF bus called for Congress to take up national reciprocity, the silence on that bill is deafening.
Worse, the media and gun control advocates consider the ATF aspect of the NRA’s recommendation irrelevant. As far as they’re concerned, the NRA has cleared the way for legislation banning the devices. Full stop. They’re not wrong.
It’s going to be a horrible precedent: the first new federal gun control law in more than a decade. A law that could lead to federal investigations and firearms confiscations and God knows what else.
No wonder 2A absolutists like Tim at the Military Arms Channel are livid. More than a few have resigned their membership and sent the NRA an impolitely-worded email. Now that the NRA has tossed gun control advocates a tasty bone, have you given up on America’s oldest civil rights group?
Yes, until they change their tune.
If there is ONE gun protected by the 2nd amendment it is the select fire M4. How can the NRA not underst and this is the end goal in addition to national carry. Their statement is a huge step backwards.
Diazepam is pretty low grade stuff. I doubt that was making him loopy.
The VA gave me that stuff for a while. All it did was make me sleepy. So,I stopped taking it after because I could accomplish the same thing by slamming a beer before bed.
I prefer the holistic approach ????
I wonder how many people all of these experts have actually killed in armed encounters? I will stick with my single action revolver. I have not had to kill anyone yet and none by accident either.
The NRA is to me is what PETA is to animal rights. There are so many other gun rights groups that aren’t as screw ball as the NRA that I’ll gladly go for them.
But like PETA you can’t deny the brand name alone can sometimes get the job done.
For all of you bashing the NRA and threatening to leave, you better rethink that. GOA, of which I’m a member, is laughably weak next to the NRA. If the NRA implodes, you can kiss your rights good bye. The NRA is far from perfect, we all know this. However, they are still the lobbying juggernaut and we are better off with them than without them.
If everyone who cancels their NRA membership supports the GOA, that issue disappears. You created a self fulfilling prophecy by putting all money into the NRA and then complaining that other groups don’t have more money.
NRA is the “dowager empress” of the gun-rights movement. As such it has a deep and wide organizational structure and history that has it’s share of warts and scabs. But, while it is undoubtedly a venerable kind of place—with all that implies—it is also the most stunningly effective single-issue lobbying force in American politics. There is simply nothing else out there that can match the NRA’s ability to speak directly to both elected Democrats and Republicans and cause them to have their “come to Jesus moments” when they realize the sheer millions of NRA members who will vote against them. Simply put there are no other gun-rights organizations that can do what the NRA can do. As long as that factoid remains true, they’ll continue to get my money.
Very well written Garrison. It saddens me that so many short sighted “hot heads” who fail to realize this. They are only hurting our cause by leaving the NRA. They need to get over their fragile egos and suck it up that there is no organization that is a utopia. The NRA is the best we have. Period. I will continue to support the SAF and GOA, while being a proud lifetime member of the NRA.
You are right.
Here we go, believing the propaganda put out by the antis again. “The NRA is the evil holdup. They stop every good thing we want to do…”
Yeah, like they stopped the Hughes amendment, the NFA, GCA 68, etc.????
I got into shooting around 2010 and joined the NRA. I canceled my membership after the endorsed the insanely anti-gun Mitt Romney and they flat out lied about his anti-gun record by trying to claim the the scary looking weapons ban he supported was somehow a good thing for gun owners and reduced gun control. The NRA are a gun control group that pretends to be pro-gun. They collect money to “fight gun control” while supporting gun control to ensure they constantly have money coming in.
The NRA is a useful tool, but they are in no way the champions of the 2A that they claim to be.
Ultimately the only real option is to be a complete ideological absolutist about the 2A. Otherwise you will be slowly walked into having it stripped a bit at a time, which is exactly that the anti’s have said was their intended when someone got a hold of the internal documentations from Handgun Gun Control Inc. back in the 90s, back before it was the Brady Campaign.
For all of you bashing the NRA and threatening to leave, you better rethink that. GOA, of which I’m a member, is laughably weak next to the NRA. If the NRA implodes, you can kiss your rights good bye. The NRA is far from perfect, we all know this. However, they are still the lobbying juggernaut and we are better off with them than without them.
As far as NAGR goes, what a joke, What have they ever accomplished? Frankly, what has GOA ever accomplished? The NRA has done more for our rights than all the other piss ant gun rights groups combined. We need the Gorilla and you are a fool if you leave. That is exactly what the left wants. They want the end of the NRA and they will get that if you all people leave and join various other groups. Join ALL the groups.
The NRA is in a tough situation having been put there by gun community zealots who thumb their noses at the ATF through law-skirting bump-fire stocks, shoulderable “arm braces”, Shockwaves, permanently attached extended flash suppressors, and “solvent traps.” Each of these devices is designed to thwart the NFA through a ‘careful’ reading and ‘interpretation’ of the law.
To excoriate the NRA for trying to split the baby will lead to gun rights being lost—not gained. Bump fire stocks are nothing more than external user-driven mechanical full auto sears. Arm braces are purposefully used to get around SBR restrictions. Calling a SBS not a shotgun is disingenuous. An extended flash suppressor (Sig) is the baffles of a suppressor. A solvent trap is nothing of the sort.
The NRA says quit playing cute and work to change the law so there is no gray area that will come back and bite you. Grow up, boys. If 59 dead doesn’t convince you, what will?
I stand with the NRA on this one.
Since you stand against the Second Amendment, you should at least put your money where your mouth is and sell your guns.
NRA should push for NFA reform then, since there’s so many bullshit ways around it, the laws make no sense (ex a pistol can be used as a rifle and returned to pistol configuration but if you turn a rifle into a pistol you are a FELON!)
the NFA needs a complete rewrite, with much of it taken out, and they had the chance to push for just that instead of bending over.
I say agree to registration and tax stamp on Bump Fire Stocks. Congress would just repeal the Hughes Amendment to the FOPA and reopen the Machine Gun part of the NFA registry so new items can be added. Problem solved.
Wishful thinking.
You are already past your last fall-back position. You are in a rout, and the enemy is picking off your element’s tail units.
You can’t sacrifice an inch.
They have nothing to trade either, THAT ISN’T ALREADY YOURS.
No, but I am NOT happy with them. ATF isn’t going to revisit, in large measure because they got kicked around so much over the pistol brace thing. They are going to just let Congress fight it out, which means what NRA did was tactically stupid, because it cut the legs from under some of our less than courageous Congress critters.
There’s the world the way people want it to be, then there’s the world the way it is.
Liberals, social justice warriors, snowflakes, and apparently a good deal of gun owners live in the former. The NRA exists in the latter.
Not yet. I’m waiting to see what they have to say at congressional hearings. Or if they will be allowed to speak at all. Congressional hearings in the past have been just a puppet show for evening news.
NAGR is a money making scheme. As a gun rights organization, they are a complete and utter fraud. What they are doing here is trying to make money off of disaffected NRA members.
Obviously. And having Nancy, DiFi and Scheamer over for Sunday Brunch.
NO I’m not a kneejerk idiot. Let the thing play out. We don’t even know who was assisting the terrorist.
The only law the NRA doesn’t want the ATF to go by the spirit of is the Second Amendment.
Sounds about right. Good summary.
“And yet there’s a compelling case to be made for a bump fire stock ban.”
The hell there is, you gutless fucktard.
Chew a cactus and die in a fire.
If you can’t ban the idea of a gun (handgun, long gun, full / semi-auto, suppressed, bump fire) AND YOU CAN’T, then you can’t BAN GUNS. That sentence alone is PROOF, that the ATF&E cannot protect you from someone who doesn’t give a flying f about rules when it comes to wishing to do you harm.
It should be W R O N G F U L, not just “wrong” for anyone in government from claiming that they are protecting you by attempting to regulate such things, as it is impossible. AND IF THEY ARE NOT PROTECTING YOU, THEY HAVE NO OTHER AUTHORITY TO DO IT FOR OTHER PURPOSES.
NRA petaled the Idea of gun control back in the 60’s so senility has set in, Gifford’s and CO must be giving free passes to the XXX ring!
Did you all hear Hillary on late.night TV telling us all how different things would be if she were President?
The NRA is the primary reason she isn’t.
People who bail on the NRA are shortsighted and stupid. The absolute last thing we need right now is a civil war inside the 2A community.
Dems don’t give a rat’s ass about bump stocks, Obama’s BATFE approved them, they are going to legislate rate of fire. See ya Competition triggers, improved grips, VFG’s and anything else they can say improves the shooters ability to get off a quicker 2nd shot. Get a Dem President? Semi auto’s will be regulated You can not give 1 inch, ever.
ALL the principles of the bill of rights are intertwined. An encroachment on some principles of it will ultimately lead to an encroachment of all.
WTF does that have to do with the price of tea in China.
Youtube and Google are private companies and are free to sensor as much as they want, or don’t, its their platform, if you don’t like it pick another.
There is apparently no end to Kaine’s STUPIDITY!
I can hardly wait for the day we vote this clown out of office for good.
All search engines curate results. It’s completely understandable that YT would want to reduce the incedence of hateful or misleading information. It doesn’t surprise me that Jones doesn’t show up when you search for the shooting for the same reason I’m not surprised when I see university web pages and not Christian blogs when I search evolution.
Unfortunately this often means that finding these conspiracies is more difficult, but it’s a tradeoff all search algorithms are faced with.
Also, do you REALLY want to identify the pro gun crowd with conspiracy nuts who attack family members of shootings? We’re better than that.
MORE “POD” PEOPLE, Newt’s hone over to the dark side. It’s not just his opinion, he’s dog-whistling for the POS (D) hounds by using the secret handshake term of the tyrannical “common sense”.
FU NEWT – when they come for you, we’ll be busy checking our weapons and gear.
I am actually with the NRA on this. Think what you will of me, but I do not believe that bump stocks have any legitimate purpose, including insurgency, other than indiscriminate slaughter, i.e. terrorism.
Bumpstocks have even less purpose than that. They are a range toy and their utility does not extend past that, thus, banning them is a useless gesture to begin with.
If the shooter had fired 400 rounds of aimed fire into the crowd of 22,000 instead of spraying with a bumpfire stock (Undoubtedly many of these rounds missing an entire country music concert) the death count would have been appallingly more severe.
Dropped the NRA long ago for their support of harry reid.
I think 99.99% of all conspiracy theories are insane ramblings, but that doesn’t mean they should be censored. Google might think this is good business, but when I’m searching for something, I want to be able to find it. If Google makes that hard to do, then they have left a big hole for competition to enter. I use Google and Youtube because they are better at finding what I’m looking for than other search engines. As soon as that is not true, the other search engine becomes my new default. Why would I be loyal to Google? They’ve never done anything to earn loyalty from me.
Another problem with state, local, or federal government records of firearm or concealed-carry-permits is that their databases can be hacked (like the 2015 hacks of the IRS or the Office of Personnel Management). And anti-gun government employees can leak the records (as happened in 2012 when NY concealed-carry-permit holders were leaked to the liberal “news” media, which then published an interactive map to the permit-holders’ houses). Such hacks and/or leaks expose law-abiding gun-owners to a higher risk of home-robbery, vandalism, job-discrimination, community-shunning, and physical harm.
Ted Nugent’s a pussy
3D printing FTW…
Oh what a tangled web we weave when we try to make deals with the Devil.
Hmmm, i was prescribed Zoloft for depression some years ago and after a while on this drug i started feeling possessed by thoughts of impulsively wanting to drive my car over bridges and into oncoming traffic. I realized that these thoughts were not my own and were being caused by the drug. once i stopped taking Zoloft they went away completely. So yeah, psych drugs can deeply affect your thoughts.
Dude. I wish I did have one. So I could sell it and buy something worth owning.
Diane says:
“Legislation would make crystal clear that Congress is banning all devices that allow a weapon to achieve an automatic rate of fire, regardless of how a weapon is altered.”
So are Jerry Miculek ( and any other such legendary people) going to have their fingers banned?
Wouldn’t a blanket prohibition of possession be considered ex post facto? And wouldn’t it constitute taking of property without compensation in violation of the 5th Amendment. Sounds more like the high-cap magazine situation during the Clinton gun ban where mags in possession prior to the ban were still legal. Seems like a blanket prohibition wouldn’t pass constitutional muster. But I’m not a lawyer. Just askin’.
The biggest thing that is wrong is the people who know jack squat about AR-15’s (or any firearm for that matter) talking about, or illustrating anything about firearms. If you know nothing about a subject, you shouldn’t be talking about that subject. Simple!
Could you imagine trying to use a bump fire stock while using a scope? That sounds like a nasty black eye or worse.
They also forgot to mention that it’s standard rate of fire is 30 clip magazines per second. And that you can also put a Laser Rangefinder on it to shoot down airplanes
Yeah, same re-cycled propaganda we always see…scary cartoon of potential accessories (a grenade launcher, really!?!) to scare the rubes who actually still listen. The really effective stuff is coming from the actions of the NRA and GOP…because they’ve already signaled ‘You’re right!’. Once the ball starts rolling down hill, it’s going to take everything we’ve got to even slow it down.
So all those things we’ve dreamed of getting over the next 4 years (HPA, National Recip, Abolish the NFA!) are not only long gone…we’ll now do well just to keep our magazines and AR15s.
right when our hopes were as high as they have been in 30 years….then BAM, some crazed idiot kills people, and half this simple minded country blames gun owners and the NRA.
We really are living in the modern equivalent of nazi book burning. This is not gonna end well.
What I want to know is why someone (or some people) have not used the wikipedia model of a publicly maintained (i.e. open source), non-profit website dedicated to hosting videos. Just like youtube, only no one-side censorship on a political basis.
Youtube was like that once but there was too much copyright infringement and too many offended snowflakes. When it turned in to a corporate enterprise (i.e. when the fouders sold it to google for a billion dollars) PR hacks and business politics started to sink their claws in to the whole afair. Its the natural progression of every good thing.
Pussy
Ok Pelosi when has a law ever stopped a crime BEFORE it was committed? Seriously we have laws against drunk driving, murder, selling drugs, possessing drugs, felons owning guns, and rape yet we still have all of these actions taking place. Tonight, while your security detail guards your mansion, and you sleep soundly in your bed someone will drive drunk, people will be murdered with various objects, drugs will be sold, drugs will be possessed, a felon will have a Glock Foety in his waistband, and people will be raped. No law passed will stop these however a gun in the hands of that potential rape, murder, or robbery victim may save their life or retain their valuable possessions.
The only way this would make any difference is if Jonathan Pringle was planning to shoot people. All he did, in my eyes, was make himself sound like a psycho. That’s one gun owner I won’t miss.
I’m a seller at $1000.
Short take, an idiot.
Hey I know guys, next time there is a serial rapist, we should all have ourselves castrated!!! We can hold our nuts up in a sandwich bag for a swell selfie!
Hi fellers, it’s a new thing I’m tryin. I walk softly and carry a big stick. It’ll catch on some day.
Just start using full30.com.
It’s FOR gun videos.
This has to be a setup. I’ll bet he bought those guns a day or so ago just so he could pull this publicity stunt. Nobody that is a gun owner would ever talk like that and most importantly, would never think a 10/22 is a “machine gun.”
“A Harvard University professor called the National Rifle Association a ‘domestic terrorist organization'”. If this isn’t a call to violence, I don’t know what is. The left is equating the NRA and its members to groups like ISIS. What is the proper response to terrorists? Violence.
More and more, I think this country’s divisions are only going to be resolved by a division of the nation, through peaceful means or otherwise. It’s clear we are more divergent on our values than ever. If we stay together it’s going to be due to the subjugation of one group by another. I don’t know about you, but I’m not big on being subjugated.
I remember 1986 ,I thought Great I don’t have to give my ID to buy handgun ammo anymore and I don’t need a machinegun anyway. Years later I get interested in collecting military arms and guess what class III arms are not affordable anymore and anything made or imported after 1986 is not transferable to individuals. OOOOPS !!
Whatever BS the Libs come up with in regards to bump stocks isn’t really the issue here.
Knowing this dried up old wind bag and her Schumer cohort. Anything written will contain ban this, limit that etc. As the Dims always do.
If they want legislature on bump stocks. Let it be a straight forward written piece. A simple Yes or No vote.
NO F%ing add-ons as we know they will do.
Any representative of mine that votes affirmative on this. Will get a No vote from me next time around.
I read a story about this guy, and the reason he gave (in his own words) was that he kept the guns “up high on a shelf” and he was afraid that as his kid grew up, he would find them.
I guess while he was at the gun show where he says he bought the guns, he missed the safes for sale.
He also said he paid $2,000 for the two guns. I have a PK380 and a 10/22, and if he paid that much (even with the wannabe stock), the seller saw him coming.
Both guns are nice little shooters, the 10/22 being cheap to shoot, while the .380 is more expensive to shoot than my 9mm pistols.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHG-ibZaKM
Ban Miculek next?
Ban bump revolvers?
YouTube is just catering to its advertisers, who are by and large big city liberal leftists in NYC and LA.
The way to go after YouTube is to boycott products from its biggest advertisers.
Hope he doesn’t pull the trigger with his thumb behind the slide. That might smart a bit.
Just means we need to repeal the NFA and give civilians access to better gear. Funny how ISIS and the Taliban are doing just fine with a tiny handful of shooters and far worse gear.
Personally I think this is very likely to be a tempest in a teapot.
There’s going to be a lot of screaming and gnashing of teeth but ultimately I doubt anything of substance will happen.
The ATF probably wants exactly fuck all to do with this situation because a bump-fire stock would be pretty difficult to construe as a “machine gun” since it doesn’t really modify the gun itself. The ATF, while one of my least favorite agencies, is smart enough to understand the can of worms this would open up and they don’t want that. You can see this in their recent position on silencers which is effectively “For the love of Christ take these things off the NFA, we’re sick of dealing with them!”. To me that suggests that the last thing they want is to have to dig into the weeds on every single attachment someone could put on an AR that *might* increase firing speed because then they’re going to have to look at basically anything you could attach. Does a handstop increase firing speed? A red-dot? An ACOG? What about a laser? Different weights of BCG? Yeah, the ATF don’t want none of that bullshit.
On top of that it would be nearly impossible to make a “bump fire stock” a “machine gun” under the current language of the NFA which statutorily defines a machine gun as “Any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.“ (emphasis mine).
Lefties don’t want to get into this either since it would require re-drafting the NFA which might lead to scary things like more freedom when some “right wing gun nut” inserts language that the antis don’t understand and which weakens the NFA substantially.
As for Congress, I don’t see DiFi’s bill making it. Congress is dysfunctional as fuck and even though some people have already caved I don’t see the votes in the House or the Senate for a serious gun control bill passing and even if it did it would have to go to DJT’s desk and I don’t really see him signing it.
Again, maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t see any of this going anywhere. It’s Sandy Hook 2.0. Nothing of substance will happen because nothing of substance can happen. Antis couldn’t pass gun control after Sandy Hook when they had both chambers of Congress plus the POTUS. It’s far, far less likely to happen now.
Could this just be a delaying tactic? NRA/NSSF ask administration to have ATF review their classification. Pro-2A has cover against taking action on ban bills – “let’s wait to see what ATF rules.” A speedy 6-9 months later, ATF rules that the original position stands and bump stocks are lawful. To change the law, congressional action is required, but this isn’t in the headlines anymore. Hardly anyone cares that the bill is ignored because XYZ is more important now.
I better start practicing with lever action, 5-round Glocks.