http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ImvKIR5cyA
I would hate to see a day when Americans decided to take up arms against their own government. It seems preposterous. If not that, ill-advised. If not that, really really scary. But I sense a sea change in both the government’s actions on guns and gun owners’ reactions to those actions. For example (as we predicted) gun owners are ignoring/disobeying the post-Newtown gun registration laws in New York and Connecticut. This is creating a negative feedback loop. Threats to gun owners (e.g., the warning letters sent by the NYPD to Big Apple gun owners) followed by anger by gun owners followed by . . . raids on gun owners’ houses/apartments to confiscate illegal firearms. Followed by . . . ? Of course it’s not all about guns. Not yet. Hopefully never. Your thoughts?
“Stop leaning so far–we’ll tip over again.”
We didn’t start it, but we will finish it.
Hopefully it never comes to that.
in the final word if it ever comes down to that kind of a shooting war?? we out number the police we outnumber the troops
and we by god out number the morons in office,
sometimes it is just not possible to fix a broken system
you just start over and pray for the best. we have some how over the last 30 years allowed the pc and liberals to hijack our colleges and our institutions of learning, our children cant or wont think for themselves and once they get to college they get taught all about how bad america is rather then why we are the greatest country in the world and the best and most free in the world. perhaps it is time for the people of the gun to exercise our 2nd amendment right
If peaceful change is impossible, violent revolution is inevitable – JFK
Those guns are now perfectly camouflaged for shooting up a modern art exhibit. The horror!
I feel like Saving Private Ryan was the first movie to use real sounds. And I caught Terminator on cable a while back and they edited the sounds effects so his 45 Long Slide sounds likes an Atari…
I thought the movie HEAT did a pretty darn good job with the bank robbery sequence.
That was very realistic with the suppressed subsonic .22 handgun. Dynamic ranges being what they are on unsuppressed rifle calibers, I’ll be interested to hear how that goes for them.
I think an armed revolution would be fruitless because it would result in a power shift back to the east and possibly ignite WW3.
WW3 is a coming and it will be fought in the valley of Megiddo, I’ve read the book and know how it ends.
Once, a few years back, I stood in front of my city counsel during the “comments” period for some new anti-rights rules they were considering, looked them in the face, and very calmly and without fanfare or drama read the following statement…
“Gentlemen and Ladies of the City Council;
I have been a trusted, law-abiding, resident and taxpayer for my entire life.
I am considered to be a civic-minded member of the community and I have never, nor do I intend to ever, commit crimes or act against my fellow man.
So I would respectfully ask this committee to tell me precisely what rationale leads you to consider turning me into a de-facto criminal with this proposed legislation. I would like this committee to explain explicitly what -I-, as an individual, have done to earn these restrictions and infringements, and if the answer is that it was not intended that -I-, me, specifically, and other residents JUST LIKE ME in this city should fall under the reach of the proposed rules then I submit that this is an example of poor legislation and the proposed rules must be rejected both in part and in whole.”
You’d have thought I pulled out a grenade and pulled the pin by the reaction I got. To be honest, the way the counsel was acting I seriously thought I was going to get escorted out of the meeting at the very minimum. I simply could not believe how they reacted to a calm, deliberate, reading that called them out on the carpet and politely demanded an explanation for their actions.
Fortunately the proposed rules were soundly voted down but after that I sat down with my lawyer and made backup legal plans for that day when some government official decides that I need to be discredited and/or hushed up.
“If the people come to believe that the gov’t is no long constained by the laws then they will conclude that neither are they.”
Bingo, that says it all!
Who said that, please?
The bald guy in the video, you’re killin’ me, Smalls.
Sorry ya’ll! just got a chance to see the video.
Please excuse the stupid question.
The guy giving testimony in the video. Although he wasn’t the most eloquent speaker.
I think he was just scared to say what he had to say because he knew he would be on a double super secret NSA watch list.
And he will never be allowed to fly anywhere ever again.
Well… the second amendment is there so that if (when?) the federal government goes to far the people will have the means to… deal with it.
So say a police system with sound pickups and analyzers will be able to tell who shot what, when and where?
I’m looking at getting involved with my local militia in Texas at this very time.
Open resistance would be awful. It terrifies me. I don’t want it. I think, for many reasons, there is little chance that anything good could come of it.
(For starters, even if you successfully remove one regime, how do you know you’re getting something better in return? Didn’t work out for the French so well…)
However, I know it is a possibility in my lifetime, & I have decided I will deal with it as that; a possibility that has many bad implications & little hope.
(Though, yes, look to the Taliban or Vietcong for what this looks like; a lot of suffering & death for all involved)
You do not need to join a militia to make a difference. Just be a law abiding, moral, ethical and proactive gun owner and rights supporter. Be politically active and represent the community in a positive way. I think you will do more good that way.
As to you French Revolution comment –
The French Revolution was a leftist revolution fought because of greedy and envy.
The American Revolution was a right-wing revolution fought on principles of morality, liberty and freedom.
Partially true. It was a classically liberal revolution. Not right wing.
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Well, there was that pesky part about people starving while the aristocracy lived in luxury. I’ll bet that you hate the idea of a black President playing golf and taking 1/3rd the vacations of the previous President, don’t you?
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The right wingers (conservatives) wanted to stay with England and maintain the status quo. The radicals wanted an independent America that kept its own taxes to itself. Pretty much a liberal concept.
Guns are scary. They are tools to create death. As such they should be treated with respect.
I guess the media and blue blooded slaves will sleep easy knowing that innocent law abiding citizens are killed in their homes by illegal gun toting thugs, instead of the reverse situation.
It looks more and more like a Red Dawn situation to me every day. Armed revolution? Inevitable if the same people stay in power. http://hotair.com/archives/2013/12/03/liberal-law-prof-obamas-unconstitutional-power-grabs-are-creating-a-very-dangerous-and-unstable-system/
I almost resisted the urge, but your name IS Patrick Henry and give me liberty etc so…
WOLVERINES!!!!
Someone had to say it.
I tend to be one of those it’ll never happen people. I just think so many people have way way too much to loose still.
I think you could almost say that we’ll never need the 2A as long as we have the 2A.
I’m fairly new to the RKBA stuff though and almost never not optimistic about anything.
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This. The average home-owning wage slave gun owner has too much to lose. If anyone revolts it will be the struggling poorer classes – those that conservatives look down on – that feel they have nothing to lose.
Scary stuff indeed.
Having said this I would also say, I will never experience a home invasion but I still have a loaded firearm for it.
I think we would win the war shortly after the first shot was fired. We have something worth fighting for, and all we want to do is be left alone. You think California or New York is going to whip up a bunch of atheist vegetarians into a frenzy, convince them to take up the gun, and attack Texas or Virginia? Please.
Once the food stamps stop, those states are going to be torn apart by their own residents looting LA or NYC. Their national guard units will be too busy shooting at their own residents to bother with anything outside their borders.
Now that I think about it, that could be a good thing. It’d thin the liberal herd out….
Shhhh, don’t give away our strategy.
Dan Mitchell says it better than I could:
“It’s almost as if Obama is a Manchurian candidate. Except instead of being a socialist plant, as some conspiracy-minded conservatives seem to think, he’s actually a closeted libertarian who’s brilliantly waging a campaign to convince people to distrust big government!”
— http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2013/11/22/the-essence-of-government-as-captured-by-cartoons/
You have been reading Sun Tzu.
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They would hire a bunch of Mexican, Eastern Euro, and Asian mercenaries, mixed in with Americans whose unemployment benefits have run out, and overwhelm the handful of gun-toting WASPs that would actually turn out.
Take a look at all the T-bagger protests in Washington this year. The organizers expected an overwhelming turnout and have been lucky to draw 50 people.
I said that if the IRS abuses weren’t enough to wake the nation up, I didn’t know what would. But watch what is happening with peoples’ reactions to Obamacare. You want a sea change, this may very well be it. Look to 2014 and 2016. What happens in these elections should be very telling.
I am now more optimistic than I have been in years that the country can be saved by peaceful means. I still have some uncertainty about how the leftists will react. They are so full of anger and hate, and I am honestly unsure what they will do when they realize they are losing their hold. Regardless, my guess is that political activism and ridicule will probably be the most effective weapons in the near future.
I would dearly love to see some of these a-holes go to prison for what they have done, but I would gladly give up that pleasure if they would just step down without a fuss.
Here’s my prediction:
A long, drawn-out, bloody civil war is coming to America.
There is one group of people who want to totally disarm another group of people in this nation and that group who is armed do not want to be disarmed. That will tear us apart. One group wants “A” another group wants “The-Total-Opposite-of-A”. We cannot have two diametrically opposed groups at the same time. One group is going to lose.
It will not just be on TV, like with Iraq and Afghanistan are today, but it will be outside our windows, on our streets in our cities and towns that we call home.
People will hear the screams of the wounded, and the dying outside their homes as they try to put their young children to sleep.
The body parts, as well as the dead, will pile up in our city parks with no where to put them.
Our children will hear the sounds of gunfire, artillery, and the sounds of hellfire missiles from their playgrounds and their classrooms. They will learn of the carnage of war with their own eyes.
With any luck, many years from now, I’ll be able to look at my grandchildren (I’m a 20-something guy) and I’ll be able to say that I was totally wrong in my predictions.
That’s an almost word-for-word quote from the movie “Patriot”.
Sure he said that, sure. ***Eyes roll***
“I am not discouraged by [a] little difficulty; nor have I any doubt that the result of our experiment will be, that men are capable of governing themselves without a master.” –Thomas Jefferson to T. B. Hollis, 1787. ME 6:156
“It was by the sober sense of our citizens that we were safely and steadily conducted from monarchy to republicanism, and it is by the same agency alone we can be kept from falling back.” –Thomas Jefferson to Arthur Campbell, 1797. ME 9:421
I have been plagued by the idea of this for a while, maybe not plagued but heavily focused, because it really is a fairly frightening idea find out just what “Dangerous Freedom” means. However in the grand human scale of things, like was said above multiple times, the cycle seems to repeat itself.
Scary indeed.
With an idiot like obama in the seat, he is absolutely clueless. He has never had to work for anything. Everything has been handed to him, or he was lead to it.
So he has no concept that what he is doing is wrong.
I hope it doesn’t happen. The losses would be horrible. It would likely alter the world.
Ultimately, the ball is in the governments court.
It’s bad enough when it’s dipsh!ts on the internet fantasize about armed uprising, but to hear someone from Cato spout this drek is just awful.
Hey, I might have resort to chemo if I get cancer some day, but that doesn’t mean I spend my time bragging about how it’s an option for me.
He was rather difficult to listen to. If he left out the rest and only said: “If the people come to believe that the gov’t is no long constrained by the laws then they will conclude that neither are they.” his point would have been better taken. If the goverment continues to be held unaccountable, civil disobedience will become rampant. There are many increments of resistance between the state we’re in now and an armed revolt. Frinstance, non-payment of taxes, keeping kids out of school and away from the common core principle, noy buying Obamacare, not registering guns, and maybe even the the obvious one–voting nanny-state politicians out of office. At some point a tipping point will come and government arrogance will no longer be accepted.
You may want to try out some of that chemo now.
I tend to agree with your statements more often than not Pete, but I think he made a valid point here. Much like children tend to mirror their parents’ irresponsible behavior, an irresponsible government can influence some of the citizenry to mirror those actions.
I would hate to see American citizens taking up arms against our government … as I would hate to see our government taking up arms against our citizens. I also hate to see someone, whether a two-bit thug or our government, threatening to kill someone for exercising fundamental rights in a fashion that doesn’t hurt anyone.
The trouble is, our government has already taken up arms against us citizens. And our government has threatened to kill us for exercising our rights. And our government is not accountable to itself anymore. For example Attorney General Eric Holder is in contempt of congress and yet nothing has happened.
I am not sure how much more citizens are supposed to take before defending themselves.
As for another type of gun art, youtube Katelyn Francis. 🙂
The problem with armed revolution is that everybody thinks that they will be the one who lives through it.
Today we go to reenactments of Washington’s Crossing and Gettysburg and fantasize about how grand it would be to be part of a glorious crusade.
History is a great antiseptic.
When your buddy’s brains explode from a State Trooper’s bullet as you assault the statehouse your romance will shatter in an instant.
We would make Syria look like Romper Room. I never want to see us come to it.
Your point is sound, but I suspect there are men of principle left in this county, people with real lines in the sand that will make Patrick Henry’s choice if given no alternative.
Not gonna happen in the near future- we still have quite a ways to go, as the frogs in the pot- the water is only luke warm at this point. People vote with their pocket book, and as the vast majority are low-info voters or drinking the liberal bathwater, they dont know how bad things are until it affects them directly- the liquor store wont take the EBT card cuz its broken, etc. We have another wave of dependency voters coming on the books with the DREAM ACT, and if you dont think the GOP will roll on this, you havent been paying attention. ObamaCare wont be repealed until 2015, and then only if the GOP seizes a majority in Senate, and if you think thats a slamdunk, then you werent paying attention in 2012.
I remember Chuck Clough the Investment Strategist and perpetual bear going on about the unsustainably low savings rate in the 80s, and how the economy was going to die soon.
Then I remember Dave Rosenburg the best analyst at Merrill in the 2004-6 time frame sounding the warning on RE and mortgages, and we all know how the CDOs squared brought that firm to near bankruptcy, and the Treasury panicked and bailed all the banks out, with QE continuing the transfer from savers to banks still.
So, we have a long way to go before the system breaks, and only when it breaks do people wake up and get pissed. Of course, a black swan can happen anytime that triggers a globally interconnected failure that we dont anticipate, but thats the point of the name.
Only then will having firearms make sense, but only after the FED GOVT cant maintain order, which would be likely only if the problem were system-wide- think Katrina in 20 places at once, and FEMA, and DHS, and black helicopters whatever, good or bad, wont work.
We are a long way from that, and speculating on what one person would do to start a revolution is not just unrealistic, but likely to get you on a watchlist, if we arent already- I am quite sure some bored young contractor is reading this as part of his duties to monitor the bitter clingers who are obviously the supersecret militia in hiding that inhabits the self-conscious bogeyman position in the minds of MDA, MAIG, Huff Po and DU type readers…
HELLO!!! “these are not the droids you are looking for, move along”
Well said. +1
I feel the battle need not be violent. Make an educated vote, adopt a sheeple, help them make an educated vote. Lately there have been a few recall elections when people realized who the person REALLY was. We need ballots not bullets. Violent/lethal conflict is not going to turn out well for either side and there are foreign enemies of liberty who would love to enslave our country. I ask you consider these factors as you clean your black rifles.
When this over bloated bully of a government is no longer a government of the people and by the people in part due to a Supreme Court that is tyrannical in nature by allowing unconstitutional laws stripping individual rights of free speech, assembly, bear arms, privacy, due process, protection of private property, etc. etc. coupled with the right economic conditions, America will have a armed insurrection. Hamilton wrote a little rebellion is good thing, its a reminder to a tyrannical government that this nation belongs to the people. Soldiers don’t fight for Washington DC, the president, congress, or any damn government individual or agency, the fight for freedom for their families, neighborhood, each other and a flag that was bought with their blood not some elected or government bureaucrat dufuss. The national guard, AKA the state militia, will be hard pressed to shoot at neighbors and if they do, America will not stand as a democratic republic in history. Fear your government more than you fear your worst enemy, it will remove your wealth, freedom, rights and your life if necessary for their own benefit.
It’s not really possible to envision a realistic scenario that could work from which the Founder’s Republic would re-emerge and most everyone would accept within a reasonable amount of time and an acceptable level of bloodshed. There is no group or person that could unite, organize and control enough armed Patriots to stage an effective rebellion against the Federal Government, except the Military. Even if there were a common rallying power, the process of gathering and concentrating a Patriot Army large enough to seize Washington D.C., and hold it long enough to re-establish a new Federal Government, could never gain sufficient numbers or momentum to go forward before it would be dismantled piecemeal by the existing Government and Military.
Possibly, if enough of The States formed a Constitutional Convention, and could hold it together long enough. (and defend it against the Military, FBI, CIA, etc), they could organize a coup in Washington D.C. backed by some new Amendments and A Patriot Army composed of Citizens and rebelling Military units. This could get really ugly. particularly when it came to arresting the Sitting POTUS, SCOTUS, Members of COTUS, Cabinet Ministers, Federal Bureaucrats and others resisting the Rebellion. But in this case the Rebellion would not be “of the People” in a true sense and likely degenerate to a “meet the new Boss…same as the old Boss” situation.
Other possibilities just devolve into brutal, inconclusive blood-letting and destruction.
Nope. I just can’t see it,
Fast, Law Enforcement Assault vehicle (FLEA)
Weight: 536 Kilos (Dry Weight), 924 Kilos (Fueled, Crew & Weapons)
Crew: 4 (Driver, Radio Operator, Tactical Member, Moon Roof Gunner)
Speed: 90 KPH (Max)
Range: 560 Kilometers
Long overdue, there is no reconciliation with the left
whoa….
what are the rest of those guns in the closet with your 10/22?
Once again I’ll start off by stating that I’m not half the wordsmith some of you on here are so bear with me a bit.
I see quite a few comments in here that seem to think some glorified “revolution” stemming from patriotism rising up in some way to stand up for what’s “right”….. I see a different possibility as far more likely. Our government may keep some of us contented by “allowing” us to keep our freedoms intact(or the illusion of said freedoms) but I see the larger group of sheeple being kept in check financially. Even the poor in this country have a better standard of living than the average person in many other countries around the world. What happens when the government no longer has the ability to be the benevolent cash cow that provides those modern amenities we take for granted? Politicians get elected by providing for people who don’t want to, won’t, or can’t provide for themselves in exchange for votes far more often now than I remember in the past.
I see two distinct main groups(with exceptions as always) in this country. The first group are those who can and will do for themselves whatever the obstacle they face, Those that will find a way to survive and aren’t afraid to work for it. The second group I see are those who have not bothered to see past the comfortable life of dependance they lead, those who don’t have the slightest clue how to survive without others there to fill their outstretched hands.
That being said, Who do you think will be the first group to “rise up” those who can continue to survive independently or those who need to take from others to survive?
I see most of the people on TTAG as being in the first group along with the preppers, survivalists, farmers, and hunters(as well as others). I believe most of us grasp the concept of sacrifice versus survival and see the modern amenities we love so much for exactly what they are, superfluous. I personally enjoy my games, cable, net, etc… but when it comes to actual survival it all goes by the wayside IMMEDIATELY. Food, shelter, family…. those things move to the front of the line for me.
The second group to me consist of “citified” people, politicians, lawyers, people who live lives of numbers and the written word. Those people for the most part have no idea what survival would actually entail other than what they see on TV or read… Those things most of us have been taught and actually done to some extent.
The second group may think they have the military and police at their disposal but what happens to those soldiers and officers when their families are forced to survive amongst the wolves? How many of them will hold their post following questionable direction while their loved ones are left to fend for themselves?
The recent past within our own country shows us that the sheep can easily become wolves while the sheepdogs remain true. How many sheepdogs have been involved in riots, looting, theft, robbery or the myriad of other assaults committed on his fellow man? Now ask the same question about the sheep-become-wolves.
To add to all the postulation… Several people pointed out that a large portion of US military would probably be reluctant (at the very least) to engage civilians but…………………….
Who knows to what degree foreign governments would get involved in such a clusterf*%$? Canada, Mexico, UK, etc.
Let’s hope we NEVER have to find out!
Required reading: The Declaration of Independence. Not just the first paragraphs, but the entire document. They spell it all out why THEY went to war against their government. Why they would use force of arms to change things. To kill others and die themselves for their cause.
I suspect that very few if any citizens today would see it the same. That most, if not all, would call them fanatics and rather jail or hang them all. Would decry the violence of their actions and the hate speech they used. The PC police would round them up right quick. The reality is that REVOLUTION is dead. It just isn’t acceptable anymore.
They “don’t want” to take hunting rifles away, but you wouldn’t know it after reading stories like these!
I’m ready to take up arms if it comes to that.
Small Arms Control Treaty. Signed. Confiscation. Spoken by Reid, Pelosi, Boxer, Biden, Cuomo, and many others. It’s human nature to not want things to change but listen to the enemies of liberty and they’ll tell you what they want to do. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. What is happening is what a Constitutional Republic is supposed to guard against but our form of government no longer conforms to that instituted at the founding of our nation. The remedy was also instituted at the founding. True patriots are duty bound to apply that remedy if circumstances demand. It doesn’t take a lot of work to find out what the founders thought those circumstances wold be. Look objectively at the current state of affairs in government. If things keep going the way they are now it’s only a matter of time until duty will call. You can’t wish reality away and the facts establish reality.
This whole situation could have turned into a melee real easy, a guy with guns disobeys a “lawful command” etc etc…. Doesnt really matter anymore about the law, we live in a post Constitutional police state and gung ho cops with itchy trigger fingers and a God complex love any excuse to grab their fancy new taxpayer provided AR15s and empty a mag into the surrounding school zone while trying to hit a “deranged man with a gun.” This guy has a bigger sack than me, I hide my irons like a squirrel with a fat acorn, because it just takes one anti gun libtard to call in and get one egotastic LEO to come crashing down on your parade. As far as hunting, I go in the woods with the iron in the truck, a nice private parcel, with no prying eyes.
This post and most of the comments seem to suggest the revolution would take the form of kinetic action against the current political and military institutions. There’s a grey area between “civil war two” and laying down and submitting to the whims of the fascists. The people who would lead a real insurrection are smart enough to remember that asymetric warfare isn’t just for the other guys. I’ll leave the rest to your imagination.
I’m with Bill (above). I don’t blame the deputies here as much as the press and politicians who actively try to terrify people in order to push their agenda. The fact that a guy carrying a rifle and wearing orange during deer season caused any stir at all is idiotic. The deputy seems to have over-reacted, true, but America needs to collectively take a deep breath and chill the hell out.
I doubt there would be many 50 year olds capable of assembling and presenting such a coherent and convincing set of arguments. This really speaks well of the American education system. Though she obviously did not learn her facts through that medium! She moves from the local to the national, using good examples from history. It requires an ad absurdam position to reveal the true nature of the threat faced by the American people. Eisenhower warned of this in 1961. The ugly truth is the American Government is a monster completely out of the control of the American people, and that power now resides in Washington DC, not in Main Street, USA. A passive, supine populace is their determined goal, and gun control is one lever they are pushing to achieve that.
Ms Outlaw would appear to have at least some Scottish heritage, as my ancestors would have called her “bosky”, “bonnie’ and “braw”. She represents what is best in American youth.
OK revolutionistas, if you DO succeed at overthrowing the Government that we have now, WHAT would you replace it with? 50 kingdoms? A “strongman?” A Banana Republic? A monarchy? Anarchy?
Most haven’t really thought that through, as they aren’t familiar with when exactly one should engage in armed resistance (which should only be if peaceful resistance fails and if the tyranny is so horrible that at worst, you simply replace it with another tyranny).
MEANWHILE, in Italy…
As for those saying that all one need to is target the families of members of the military in resisting a tyrannical government, that is something very wrong to do, both morally and strategically. Morally for obvious reasons, and strategically because then you feed the propaganda apparatus of the tyranny that your resistance is really just a bunch of ruthless thugs whom the government is very much justified in using force to put down.
Gotta run them indoors and outdoors.
Just his parents puppet to push their agenda.
If they told him Obama flies a spaceship hed believe them. Its the nature of children thinking their parents are always right.
On a side note, the “art” is literally just different color lines or splatters
Wow, I researched what was available on Miller about 12 years ago and didn’t know about the corruption behind the story. I wish this could be widely disseminated, but since it takes more than 30 seconds to read, I suspect very few people will be interested.
This is an important event in the story of gun control and it shows that human nature never changes.
People using the American Revolution as an example of how it’s worked before need to stop it. We won *only* because of French intervention, and the Monarchy decided it was too costly to keep the colonies when they had other issues around the world.
Also, it was roughly 1/3 for, 1/3 against, and 1/3 indifferent… and it was as colonists against an unelected Monarchy on another continent an ocean away. We were not trying to overthrow the Monarchy itself. Do you really think you could even get 1/3 of the U.S. population to support an overthrow of their own democratically elected government? Good luck with that. The only revolutions that happen that way that succeed turn into dictatorships.
I mean seriously, you want to overthrow a republican style government for… what? Because after you win, the same people that voted for the previous government are going to be voting for the new one. Or do you plan on not allowing large swaths of the population to vote and instead impose the will of the chosen enlightened few on them?
In relation to the rest of his gear, that gun collection sucks. Still, super, super cool dude in my book. Just not because of the guns.
if your fielding a lot of calls about someone doing something completely legal, maybe you should spend the time educating the caller rather than harassing the hunter. Everyone wins
Once he is taken to a firing range and shoots his first full auto he will be one of us…
Whether it’s the open carry demonstrators, or open carriers for routine, non-political purposes, these instances will continue to happen for the foreseeable future. The question isn’t whether to abandon open carrying. The question is how to handle these situations in a manner that quickly and safely reaches a lawful conclusion.
Granted, we’ve only read one side of the story; but it’s well written and avoids the harsh, accusatory tone one might well expect from a writer with this experience. I’m leaning toward believing the bulk of it. I’m not clear how he intended to haul any deer home without a vehicle, or why he didn’t ask any fellow hunters he ran into for a short 5 mile ride up road, but perhaps those details don’t matter.
Whether it’s cops fielding hysterical, misplaced calls, or a school principal acting on idle threats, the fact remains that tragedies do occur and could again at any moment. They really do have to do *something*. Nobody wants to be the one facing fifty cameras and microphones each demanding to know what you knew, when you knew it and why you failed to act. Hence, these encounters will continue.
I’d suggest presenting as polite and peaceful a presence as you can, while preserving your rights, and get through the situation without escalation. Threats of arrest are as unhelpful as are threats of lawsuits. Nearly hitting someone with a cruiser is almost as bad as preparing for a shootout with the cops. I can’t get into a whole conflict resolution seminar here, even if I were 100% qualified to deliver it (which I am not), but you get my point. Just try to see it from the other party’s perspective and try to find common ground that serves each side’s interests. Most gun owners are the good guys and an indeterminate percentage of the cops are good guys, too. Let’s keep that in mind.
We’ll never catch up if you don’t stop shooting at them!
It’s okay to break the law, but follow the law and you’re an idiot. Lol
I thought that female cops are supposed to be adept at defusing potentially hostile situations. At least, that’s the propaganda.
The New Richmond Police officer was the first to engage, and after satisfying himself that nothing was amiss, he went on his merry way looking for a thirteen year old with a toy gun for his shooting pleasure.
That’s when the beyotch of St. Croix County took over, turning a bad situation into a worse one.
Nice going, babe. You’re well on your way to becoming a true officer of the law. Arrogant, ruthless, power crazy and dangerous as hell.
FYI, remember that crazy-ass New Mexico dirty harry who was pegging shots at a loco mother and her five kids as she drove away for a traffic stop? He’s been fired. For now.
I have one of these rifles in .308 win…..it is an amazing rifle. The rifle will shoot sub-moa groups every time I pick it up, even when I can’t. It is not picky about bullet weight and I would highly recommend it. I also have a couple of other rifles with the 5R rifling and to me it offers amazing accuracy with a wide range of bullet weights.
Two people were open carrying in this confrontation and one was acting like a nut.
Apparently nothing changes. Same game; different faces. Reminds me of those movies where the good guys fight the devil only to realize that the fight been going on since the beginning of time.
I bet if we delved back into history you would find the same attempts at restrictions of crossbows, swords, spears, sharpened sticks, and pointy rocks. Apparent our current society does not have the market cornered on douches.
So, had you shot a nice fat doe, how were you planning to get it home? Leave a five-mile blood trail as you drag the carcass down the street?
How hard would it be for the 911 operators to calmly explain that the MWAG in question had been investigated, and he’s just a hunter walking home? Oh, right, because you presented a minor challenge to the authority of an insecure cop, she needed to try to make an example of you. I’m glad she went home frustrated that day. Hopefully she learned something about the laws she’s supposed to uphold.
I would have had to wait at the parking area until 4:30. The deal i made with the old lady was to let her know if I got one, otherwise be home by 3:30 because it was my turn to wait for parent pickup.
And yes, jwm. I did. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I have a right to life. I committed no crime, did everything right, as the sheriff stated, was harassed and made to feel unsafe. I have an obligation to make it home alive. That’s why I carry.
Can’t…read…it…no…time…got…to…keep…training…got…to…stay…in…condition….red….trust…no…one….stay…awake…and…alert….need…more…guns…need…more…ammo…
NYC cops decided to finally enforce a law that’s been on the books for roughly 20 years.
Twenty years to get into compliance with a law. Look out they’re coming for you next. Watch for the next major enforcement effort to start around 2034 or so.
Dude should have recorded the cops, but then he would be called a paranoid idiot.
I always record the cops, because if not they lie and the story changes.
There is a firearm behind every blade of grass waiting for the day. We know who the true aggressors are and we know what they are looking to achieve – totalitarianism. We all must unify, and be well prepared ahead of time. Violence and irrational behavior are not our weapons of warfare. Unity, preparation, information, training and communication are all critical elements to defeating this menace. We need to be active, assertive and aggressive at the same time. Am I suggesting an armed revolt? Absolutely not. Such an act would require a very well organized, nationwide plan with intelligent leadership. Otherwise, we become even more divided and broke up into factions. That’s when things get ugly. In my honest opinion, our best bet right now is to become activists, get out into the streets with members of your community, link up with like minded individuals. Get to know people, hold rallies at your Capitol or join in on a Nationwide protest. Remember, we ‘rally’ to those who think like we do, but still haven’t come out of the woodwork to join us. A unified, Nationwide alliance of American patriots, well armed patriots, will successfully stand against any Federal attempt to implement large scale firearm seizures…should it come to that, and I’m confident it will. In the mean time, use your head, be a responsible American, be peaceful, and resist!
I stumbled across this by accident while looking for troy parts for my DPMS. I remember Ruby Ridge very well it was disgusting and out right MURDER that those cops committed. And got away with just as they always do. NOBODY involved with such a disgraceful cowardice act should be allowed anywhere near gun manufactures of any type. What if this had been your wife, Im sure your opinion would be different. Cops here are always getting the address wrong and killing innocent people, nothing ever happens to them. TROY I WILL LOOK ELSEWHERE FOR MY PARTS. You should be ashamed and loose your ass to say the least. To The WEAVER family Im truly sorry for your loss.
I know for a fact that the killer (i refuse to acknowledge his name) filled a prescription for fluoxetine(Prozac) only a couple of weeks before the event. I was in a position to gain access to this information, and as a result I’ve seen the record with my own eyes. I will not go into any further detail. I have no lawful way to provide proof of any of this. I just thought some might find it interesting.
please post pix if you have them, thank you.
It’s tragic it it’s way. Anyone who seriously uses the phrase “gun violence” has already taken a mindset that prevents them from understanding the issue.
I liked the book for several reasons, but to me it is a very well written, accurate, and enjoyable collection of observations of the many diverse types of gun owners across America. You don’t have to agree with any of his opinions, or conclusions to enjoy the book.
Laws and regulations like this would solidify my thoughts on never seeking help. If I ever needed help and laws like this exist, I would not seek help. If I had PTSD or depression and went to the VA in the future, I would not say a word because it could lead to permanently losing my guns rights with no recourse to regain them.
Going to the range and shooting has been a part of my life since I was 5-6 years old. I would never give up that enjoyable and relaxing time I spend shooting. When I went through a divorce years ago I bought my first pistol and two Mosins (Big 5 had sales for $79 on M91/30s and M44s). My friends and I went to the range and we went often. Sometimes twice per week depending on if I could afford to buy the ammo. It was fun and kept my mind off of my divorce. I guess you could call that range therapy. I’m glad the future ex didn’t try to file a fraudulent restraining order to screw me over.
These idiots like Bloomberg love that laws like this would screw a lot of good people over who would never hurt anyone. This needs to be fought hard!
“Mental illness” is a very vague term. It encompasses a large group of symptoms. We should not be using the term to make any decision. Instead we should be discussing specific diagnoses. Schizoid personality disorder? Narcissistic personality disorder? Are all persons with such a diagnosis likely to be dangerous? How do we identify which ones? The pro-control faction would prefer a blunderbuss approach of depriving anyone with any symptom of their rights. We need to get specific.
“Mental defective” is a term also used by the pro-control faction. The American Psychiatric Association publishes a “Desk Reference to the Diagnostic Criteria From DSM-IV-TR.” This describes the various diagnoses with a list of their symptoms. E.g., paranoid personality disorder has 7 symptoms, four being required to justify a diagnosis. Looking in the index for “mental defective”, there is no such entry. Think about it! Psychiatrists don’t recognize the condition, yet thousands of people lose their rights over it.
We should be pushing back against the current restrictions on gun possession on mental health grounds by demanding a scientific diagnosis verifiably related to a substantial evil which government has a right to be concerned with.
So far , at least, “mental illness” is not a disqualifying condition absent (a) an adjudication or (b) in most states and involuntary confinement AND a determination that a person is a threat to him/herself or others. (Involuntary confinement does the trick for the latter element every time. Some states extend that to voluntary confinements.)
I would love to set off a shot on the 11th. But I can’t do it legally anywhere close to buffalo. And I have work. Ugh.
I know Dan to be a good writer, and at this point more than half the comments (once you take away the 5 from WB) say it was good, so I suppose I’ll check it out.
His parents probably voted for Debbie Wasserman-Schultz or another of her ilk.
This falls in the “no shit” category. It was a slippery slope a year ago when that was the finger everyone wanted to point, it’s a slippery slope now. Broad strokes and “Interpretable” terms are not Americans’ friend.
“You want to own a gun!? You are clearly crazy! You are not fit to own any weapon!”
Too bad no one realizes that all Bloomberg is is a representative, not a psychiatrist. With all due respect, what the hell would he know about mental health? That wasn’t his major, and still isn’t his major.
They seized the pellet guns? On what possible grounds?
Mother nanny bloomers knows best. NY will show the rest of the country how easy confiscation from law abiding folks is.
And I suppose they are going to the hood and scooping up all the guns there that are frequently actually used in crimes. NO? Oh that’s right they are not registered and the police have no clue who has what.
Poor dumb tax paying law abiding people just trying to own long guns for protection.
Keep voting the nimrods in, you get the government you deserve.
Why don’t we turn it around on them? I’m sure the antis could sustain an OCD diagnosis. They should be identified in the public record and medicated – they make threats toward us. They’re dangerous! They have clubs with signs on them! We NEED our protection.
[I need more coffee…]
Regardless of whether Bateman is an Army officer or just a liberal with an honorary title like Kentucky Colonel, the fact remains he is entitled to his opinion. But he can never enact any of his ludicrous, elitist attitudes against guns–the only way to successfully legislate the things he wet-dreams about is to pass repeal of the 2A, and that would take 37 states worth of ratification, and that will never happen. Off the top of my head I can name 27 states that would never pass such a ratification, and easily half of them would never even vote on it.
As an active 2A supporter and practitioner, I can assure Bateman that he is on the wrong side of the American people who really matter in the debate…gun owners. We are in the decided minority, but our rights are Constitutionally-protected, as of this moment anyway. There are those in positions of great power who wish nothing more than to disarm us. Make no mistake, anyone who uses the phrase “We will pry your guns from your cold, dead fingers” and then follows it with “because I’m willing to wait until you die, preferably from natural causes” is speaking from both sides of his neck–he means the first; he distracts with the second. The first is his gleeful aim.
Diligence and vigilance on our part is required to protect from the destruction of our rights–and that means ALL of them, not just 2A rights.
I am surprised that no one has thought to have us gun owners designated a protected-class minority–we are fewer in number than the rest of Americans, we have Constitutional protection of our rights, and we vote. Someone should bring a class-action lawsuit against the Federal and 50-states’ governments seeking protected-class status. That would add an iron-clad defense against assault on the 2A rights our Founders wisely included as a protection against domestic governmental tyranny (see Federalist #46 for proof of their actual intent).
And I thought that AFT was a convenience store .. ????
Never understood why “we” need specialty law enforcement agencies like ATF and in my state ALE. Why arent firearm and alcohol laws enforced like any other laws by the local and state po po’s? Seems like these agencies have a higher incident rate of scandals and going rogue.
“….gleefully dance in the blood of victims, holding their own lame-ass rallies and vigils on December 14th.”
I don’t see anything wrong with people gathering and remembering loved ones lost in such a tragic manner. It is a callous and shallow statement, one I would expect from the other side of the line, the line of extremes. Many gun owners have families, what am I saying, we all have families, and all of us can and should acknowledge the sorrow and pain these families have and will continue to deal with.
The problem is the media, the politicians, and uneducated citizens who demonize an inanimate object as opposed to the spineless little prick who executed kids and unarmed citizens. People just can’t get it into their heads that humans, as history is testament, are capable of insidious cruelty and horror, the tool they use is irrelevant, it is the mindset that should be questioned. We cannot stop stupidity and we cannot stop crazy, it is part of the human animal. As I recall, we don’t and didn’t have ban box cutters or ban pressure cooker rallies or groups headed by ex Monsanto talking puppets wanting donations, a fantastic business venture… like all the scum who have started Veteran charities and maybe 1% of donations actually end up going to veterans.
The question should be, do you blame Adam Lanza or do you blame the firearm he used? Possibly even a third part, do you blame his mother for not getting him the necessary mental care he needed? There are no simple answers to a complex problem, though it seems the knee-jerk reaction, quick fix for the the anti 2A crowd is to simply ban all guns.
Do guns save lives? Yes, I can use a firearm to save my life. And I can speak for my uncle (who has since passed), his firearm sure as hell did save his life when he encounter multiple intruders on his property.
Lastly, when I lost my father, I didn’t blame the gun he used on himself, I blamed him and myself and my family for not taking actions to help him with his mental mindset and alcohol abuse. He was a great man, did business with a handshake, and I will always remember him as such, even though he, like all of us, have vices and turbulent times. At some point, certain people have enough, this world can only offer so much. He took his life, he did not harm any others in the process physically and did not threaten anyone, but the pain will always be there. My brother-in-law’s father did the same thing when he returned from Vietnam. He went to a back room in his house and took his life. And there are many warriors coming home today who are in the same mindset. May we save them all.
That’s the problem with revisionist history. Trying to interpret the past through the lens of present morality and standards, one is often faced with the classic square peg, round hole conundrum.
When you apply the overlay of current PC-ness, it’s a recipe for interpretive disaster.
I have an XDS and a S&W Shield. Both are terrific, but I shoot the XDS more accurately. Probably because the grip on the XDS fits my hand a little better than the shield. I bought the Shield because it was thin and much easier to carry concealed. My XDS was among those recalled and I sent it back on Sep 11th. My Shield was not one those recalled so I used it for concealed carry while the XDS was being repaired. I got the XDS back on Friday, Nov 29, just after Thanksgiving. Took it to the range and it was as terrific shooting as it was before I sent it back. I’ve just ordered an IWB holster for the XDS so I’ll have a couple of options for concealed carry. I’m also planning on buying a Crimson Trace LG-469 laser for the XDS since the IWB holster I ordered is made for an XDS with the Crimson Trace laser. I agree with someone who said earlier that Glocks aren’t for everyone. I would have bought a G26 for concealed carry but it’s too wide in my opinion. It also felt blockish in my hand. Still, you can’t argue with their reliability. I was considering a Ruger SR9C, and a Taurus PT111 but I chose the XDS based on previous experience with an XD and on reviews from various online sites that rated Springfield weapons with a few 4 stars, but mostly 5 stars. I took about 6 weeks researching what to buy and I’m very happy with everything I have. So far, I have not been disappointed with my XD and my wife prefers it for home security. I really like the XDS and the Shield because they are both easily concealed-they fit in a pocket, or IWB in either appendix or 4 o’clock. I have no problem with the Springfield guns having a grip safety and a trigger safety. And I really like the manual safety option on the Shield, although everyone seems to loathe this feature. I don’t care that Springfield took 11 weeks to return my XDS because it was fixed and it’s still a terrific little powerhouse. Plus I got another 9 round magazine for free, and a great small box to transport it. I never tried calling customer service because everything worked perfectly using email. Everyone who posted on multiple sites about never buying from Springfield again needs to realize that once everything gets fixed,a and they start shooting their XDS’s again, they’ll realize as I did that it’s a terrific banger. Remember Toyota’s terrible quality issues and how they totally botched their recalls ? Look at the now !
I have worked in pediatrics for years and have NEVER ONCE reccomended that a firearm be removed from a home. I have encouraged numerous families however to acquire firearms for protection of their homes and families as well as encouraging them to teach their children to shoot. Shhh, don’t tell the AAP.
“…progressives wish and intend to rule your lives. Every aspect.”
If anyone doubts this truth, read, “Liberal Fascism”, by Jonah Goldberg.
What you wrote was truly inspired.
Welcome to TENNESSEE.
rlc2, clearly you are an all knowing keyboard kommando. Tell you what: I’m going to fact check you just because you’re a moron. Click my name just on this post or type my blog address in. Broken P22, took the barrel extension off to send it in for warranty repairs. Pretty good condition for almost 15,000 rounds fired through it. Honestly surprised something didn’t break sooner considering it’s a $300 gun.
BTW, I clean all my guns after firing them, even if it’s just one round.
http://likeomggunsareforlosers.blogspot.com
Go ahead and sputter more nonsense if you’d like. Every website has its’ village idiot. ;-). Goodnight sweetheart.
P.S. it’s a picture of me squeezing the trigger on an empty chamber, safety off, magazine inserted but the hammer is still cocked. Not mechanically possible on a working firearm.
I’ll name the post ‘rlc2 just for you.’
Civilians said that the TSA posed a threat because it could be confused for a real police.
The Constitution WILL be enforced, BY force if they make it necessary.
Here I go. I’m an honorably discharged vet. Retired school district employee. Out side of a few traffic violations I have no blemishes on my record. I have a safe full of legally purchased forearms.
And here I am undergoing still another useless waiting period to pick up my new hunting shotgun.
Gratz RF!
Just curious, isn’t Clark County in Nevada? Isn’t Nevada a shall issue state? What exactly is her “process” for getting permit? Filling out the form?
In the US the rule is never bring a knife it a gunfight. In the UK it is never bring a gun to a knife fight — you can’t use it because self defense is governed by “proportionality”, i.e,. you could justify the use of a firearm only if your assailant was armed with one. So, if you want the gun for self defense then don’t bother. If you want a gun to hang with the lords and ladies then get a shotgun. You can shoot clays and grouse.
In “the glass half full/half empty” vein. Some people look at a sink as being half full of dishes, some people look at a sink as being half empty of dishes. I look at it and figure I got a couple more days before I have to wash the dishes.
Why is it only PC people have the right to say anything?
Yyeeaahh… and if the US hadn’t foolishly protected Britain back in the 1940’s we wouldn’t have this loud mouth waste of skin on our planet.
My son is an Arapahoe HS student, and no parent should experience what we did. The parents of Claire Davis have it much worse than all of us. I was astounded by MDA’s response. They clearly have no idea of how Coloradans view gun rights and who is responsible for the tragedy. Our experience: http://jamesviser.com/?p=949.
The ONLY thing that stood between the gunman last Friday and my son (and others) was good guy Deputy Sheriff James Englert. I owe him a personal debt of gratitude. One that Claire’s parents acknowledged in their actual statement here:
“It is with unspeakable sadness that we write and say that Claire has passed away from the gunshot wound she received at Arapahoe High School on December 13, 2013. Although we have lost our precious daughter, we will always be grateful for the indelible journey she took us on over the last 17 years—we were truly blessed to be Claire’s parents. The grace, laughter and light she brought to this world will not be extinguished by her death; to the contrary, it will only get stronger.
“Last week was truly a paradox in that we lost our daughter, yet we witnessed the wonderful love that exists in the world through the tremendous outpouring of support we received. We’d like to take this opportunity to thank the first responders, the school resource officer, security guard and vice principal at Arapahoe High School, the Arapahoe County Sheriff’s office, and the physicians, nurses and staff at Littleton Adventist Hospital. Each played a significant role in giving Claire a chance to live, and demonstrated extreme amounts of professionalism, courage and love. Please know that we will never forget the extraordinary work you did on Claire’s behalf.
“We ask that you give us time to grieve the death of our daughter by respecting our wishes for privacy.
“With much loving-kindness,
“The Davis Family”
The shooter passed a background check, paid the fee and purchased a pump-action shotgun (not AR). He broke no law until the last two minutes of his life, when he committed murder and then suicide.
We can pass laws covering 100 different scenarios, but the experience at Arapahoe HS proves there will always be a 101st. When the law fails, there must be a good guy with a gun to confront an active shooter in school and public places. The same can be said for Navy Yard and just about every other mass shooting we have witnessed.
We can do this people, if we unite. We can put armed law enforcement in schools and permit qualified conceal carry. Do it now.
Best regards,
James Viser
www.
He’s entirely wrong. I don’t agree with Phil Robertson’s statements, but his right to make them are protected by the First Amendment.
Liberty doesn’t mean that I have to agree with everything that everyone else says or does.
You know, reading through the comments I just gotta say.. I was always curious what happens if you took the word, “Marriage” out of the Government completely. Instead, everybody gets a Domestic Partnership, with all the benefits of marriage currently attached. Now everybody is on equal footing. If people want to get, “Married,” then they can go to a church and do it proper.
Seems to me this entire time this whole battle is really over the word, “Marriage,” and then telling gays they cant have the same rights as normal people. (That’s called treating them 2nd class, by the way.)
Second class seems pretty spiffy to me, in a Steerage Nation.
I don’t think even the Brits can stand him. Greatest line ever from Penn and Teller Fool Us. At 3 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v7QSNAENmQ#t=3m
“Do it now”. Well said Mr. Viser. Are you listening, MDA?
Well written. Agreed.
We lost my brother three years ago, he was home on leave from Iraq. He was shot by a man because he was seen by this guy with my cousin. My cousin argued with and called this guy names until the guy left the bar. This guy was so mad he went home, got a shotgun with buckshot, and waited to ambush my cousin. When my cousin didn’t come by and my brother did he instead shot him. My brother fought for five hours but the damage was too much. The doctor pulled twelve 00 pellets out of my brother, he said that they just couldn’t get his heart to keep going.
My brother had been through two tours of duty without a scratch only to be murdered in our hometown. The man who murdered my brother wasn’t legally able to have a firearm because a violent background, but he got one anyway. Not one person in my family said that guns should be outlawed. Nobody in my family took all their firearms and sold them. Instead we talked about getting everyone concealed carry licenses.
In 2011 my other brother was killed by a guy that ran him and his motorcycle off of the road. The weapon the guy used was a Corvette. We still don’t know who killed him, we wouldn’t even know what kind of car if not for a witness. He has never been caught. This has hurt our family further. Two terrible acts of violence, two very different weapons used.
We think about them every single day, the loss hurts as bad today as the day my brothers were murdered. I feel so bad for the Davis family, I know the hurt they feel. I don’t think we’ll ever recover from the loss. The man who shot my brother got 26 years. The other has never been apprehended. I guess that we got some justice, it still doesn’t make any of us feel better though. The Davis family will never get that much. Nothing you can say will ease their pain, myself and my family haven’t found anything that does. I can only say that I wish someone had been there to stop the man that shot my brother or the guy that ran my brother off the road. Someone being there to stop this guy and the filth like him is a blessing. I’m glad that your son and the other kids in his school are okay.
I feel that a school resource officer should be at every entrance, our young ones deserve that much. We can find money for School Superintendents to make $250.000 a year or more but we don’t have enough money to hire people to protect the young in our schools. We won’t change the laws that ban a teacher from carrying either. Yeah, I guess that would make sense to a moron. Just like banning guns will stop murders. How about cars, without them one of my brothers would be alive today.
I’m tired of the ignorant subhumans who spew dog crap like “we are all Claire’s mother”. YOU… ARE… NOT! Unless you have lost a child or family member to a violent lowlife you haven’t an inkling of the hurt and loss that is felt. To say or act like you do is a slap in the face of those that have. We should all “demand” the “action” of them shutting their mouths.
Tell the ones you love how much you care about them. I’ve always wished I told my brothers I loved them more often. Don’t let machismo or “being a man” stop you. Tell your kids, siblings, parents, and the rest of your family how much you love them. You’ll never be sorry that you did.