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The day after Donald Trump was elected, six of my daughter’s eighth grade classmates refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. They remained seated as a protest against the once and future real estate magnate’s victory at the polls. Apparently, it’s a trend. On Veteran’s Day, roughly a dozen of her middle school classmates refused to say the Pledge or put their hands over their hearts as the school recited the oath. Same reason.

There’s overlap between people making this kind of “He’s Not My President” protest and those who seek greater gun control. After all, “their” President was all for it. Which makes me wonder: if anti-gunners only accept the American system of government as long as they get their way, how loyal are they “to the Republic”? By rejecting Donald Trump’s election, by seeking to disarm Americans in direct contradiction of the Constitution’s Second Amendment, aren’t they anti-American?

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  1. Some anti-gunners are anti-American. Most probably are. But some are just mentally ill. And so are their little brats.

    • What happens when you breed a spotted cow with another spotted cow… you get a spotted cow.

      Stupidity creates stupidity.

    • I wouldn’t make a good teacher now days. Those brats in school need a good ass whooping. And their parents need to be looked at for mental abuse of their children filling their minds with sheet.

  2. Quit acting like if the election hadn’t gone the other way the right wouldn’t be doing the exact same sort of hand wringing protests.

    If I had a dollar for every jackass declaring themselves ready for the revolution and taking their country back on gun forums I’d be a rich man. The sky is always falling in gun forum land.

    Anyone who advocates the love it or leave it mentality clearly doesn’t understand America’s freedoms.

    • No we wouldn’t have. If we were of that little mindedness, would have done so in 2008 or 2012. We fully understand freedom but freedom doesn’t condone the behavior in Portland and Oakland the last few nights. If I had a dollar for every jackass shouting “Not my President” , I’d be even richer than I am lol.

    • Man that’s actually funny. How many fires were lit in streets in 2008 or 2012 by right wing protestors funded by the Koch Brothers?


    • “Quit acting like if the election hadn’t gone the other way the right wouldn’t be doing the exact same sort of hand wringing protests.”

      Absolutely. I remember all those children of conservatives not standing, pledging, etc. after the 2008 and 2012 elections.

      Oh, wait, they didn’t.

    • For the most part the talkers are just keyboard commandos. Do you think real revolutionaries talk about their plans on an open forum. In my experience, the bigger the talk the less the action. It’s kind of like when a lititle dog comes barking in my 90lb Plott Hound’s face. They have no intention of taking on the beast even though Jethro is a pussy.

    • That maybe true, but at least the gunners don’t running around talking about how loving and caring they are while rioting and burning down their own cities…. the anti’s aren’t even house broken.

      And I have a YouTube video of some libbie shank taking a dump on a public street to prove it. Must be one for those “intellectuals” who voted for Clinton.

    • You mean the trolls who were attempting to rile up conservatives?

      Every time I ran across one of those I always said
      Soap Box
      Ballot Box
      Jury Box
      Ammo Box

      That’s the order. And I ain’t done with the ballot box yet.

    • Some would have. But nothing like what we’re seeing here.

      Some of that may have to do with demographics. Rioting is an urban pastime nowadays and the urban centers are liberal. But I also think the left has gotten so used to being offended that it just can’t accept any other realities.

    • If the election had gone the other way there would have been no rioting in the streets by forces on the Right, of course there would have been disappointment and resentment, but no actions would have been taken until it was clearly proven that our lives as FREE American were in the greatest jeopardy. That is a tremendous difference. You fit in perfectly with this all or nothing cretins only your opinion matters , how very anti-American of you .

    • It’s very simple: Children throw tantrums and break things when they don’t get their way. Adults don’t. Why? Adults respect rule of law and have this thing called personal accountability and respect for others.

    • Talking of and being prepared for “revolution”, should the abrogation of the Constitution be taken too far, is exactly what America is all about – see the Declaration of Independence. But first the Constitution itself provides several levels of remedies that may be attempted. This was the course of the conservatives in the previous two elections and the reason the Republican is elected now – an attempt at correcting the erosion of the Constitution and its protections without having to resort to a more drastic solution, which must nevertheless be understood and prepared for.

      Destroying the principles upon which this country was founded is a difficult endeavor, but Liberals and Progressives have been working at it for a long time and it seems that they have not given up hope.

      Getting our country back, should the Progressives ever succeed, would be a much ore difficult and deadly endeavor. Let’s not go there.

    • Anti-Gunners sincerely love America.

      The only problem is, it’s the same kind of love O.J. Simpson had for Nicole Brown…

  3. I don’t recite the pledge or sing the national anthem. And I’m for the elimination of every “gun control” law in the land. It’s not that I’m opposed to a little bit of nationalism, but I see the pledge and the anthem as a kind of endorsement of what the state does. Mostly what the state does today is evil, so I don’t want to lend it any legitimacy. The left is mostly mentally ill and pie in the sky.

    • stateisevil, I share your antipathy to the government. Hell, I probably exceed it. But the government isn’t the country, although the G would like you to believe that they are one and the same.

      If I was asked to pledge allegiance to the government, I’d spit in their eye.

      But I pledge allegiance to the country without any hesitation or reservation whatsoever.

      • I don’t consider the flag the constitution either. I respect the flag as much as I do a bald eagle, as a symbol. I had no problem recited an oath to the constitution, but I do not believe I can pledge the same allegiance to a symbol.

        The anthem, I have a different issue with – being overplayed. Playing it before every sporting event, and more, denies the solemnity which it should be accorded.

      • Good point. I feel pretty much the same way. I’m not pledging allegiance to a government, I’m pledging allegiance to this country and what it was meant to stand for.

        Which one do you think the post-election protesters are doing? Spitting in a hated politician’s eye or protesting America itself?

    • I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.
      And to the Republic for which it stands….

      The pledge is to our Republic, not the idiots we let run around in Washington DC.

    • Overlap or not, the State and the Country are not the same thing. Patriotism need not manifest as blind devotion to the government. Some might even say, or have said, that the greatest patriots are the ones who would defend their country from their government.

  4. The entire left side of the political spectrum is anti-American. The fact that they are against gun rights is simply one symptom of the disease.

    The revolution has started, it just looks different than anyone had envisioned. Identity politics is the only thing that matters moving forward.

  5. I think I’m pretty anti-American at times depending on what the meaning of the word “American” is. I’m also rabidly pro-gun (pro all individual rights and then some) and won’t pledge allegiance to anything.

    All of these fair-weather allegiance pledgers are just broken headed loons with no real convictions. Hell, they were pulling for the most crony capitalist corporatist candidate ever all under the auspices of anti-capitalism. WTF is that? They’re clearly insane and don’t know what the hell they believe in.

    • ‘Pro individual all rights and then some’… memory may be failing me, and apologize if it is, but I seem to recall you making comments supporting mandatory vaccines at one point?

      • I may mock folks for clinging to dubious science but I’ll never mandate they behave a certain way or comply with any policy. The fewer vaccinations the better. Less assholes around trying to tell me what to do.

  6. He!! YES they’re anti-American! Land of the Free and everything it stands for. I wonder how these young dumb urchins would feel in a truly repressive system-say as an ISIS sex slave? And yeah I do know about freedumb of speech. I’m buying another gun today to protect that right…(as an aside will the “protests” against Trump continue for 4 years or until some skulls are cracked??)

  7. I would support the kids (and adults) engaging in these forms of protest IF they understood why.

    If they are just doing what they think they are supposed to do, then they should stop.

    There were “controversial” speakers at my old synagogue in MA (Boykin, Gaffney, & Bachmann) speaking on the threat of Islamofacism and there were protesters outside. When they were interviewed, they gave similar responses, like off of a list of bullet points. Kind of like what anti-gun politicians and celebrities do.

  8. WE WON, now you can still join us, but sit in the back of bus, I have a pen and a phone, stop clinging to your bible and guns, men use women’s bathroom and women use men’s bathrooms, your all deplorable. America we’re back

  9. No, they aren’t.

    And any of you pretending that Trump wasn’t saying, days before the election, that if he didn’t win the election was rigged are full of shit.

    Calling into question the fundamental basis of how America’s President is elected is un-American.

    Anyone on here saying that there weren’t thousands of Trump supporters calling for armed insurrection if Trump lost are full of shit.

    The list goes on.

    • You are confused.

      A candidate calling into question how a President is elected is Patriotic.

      A President who encourages illegals to vote and promises no repercussions if they do is Un-American.

      • The only reason KKKlinton lost is because she didn’t bring out enough of the dead vote.

        The election was completely rigged, from the propaganda media right down to the illegal voters. And Trump won anyway.

        • +100 Ralph. The actual voting must have been a massive landslide, otherwise we would have had a diebold-Klinton victory.

        • Enough of the dead vote in the right states. The Electoral College makes that much more difficult to pull off, even with all of the Socialists and Communists in California voting for her.

    • You are condemning a few loons running off at the mouth, we are talking about actual armed criminals taking over the streets in a hugemongous temper tantrum/hissy fit, burning and looting and attacking police. Hopefully after a few years of Trump, we can have enough attitudes changed so the common sense result (don’t ya love “common sense”, it works both ways!) will be if you act like that we will shoot you. Your compadres react to that with another riot tomorrow, we will then shoot them, as well. We can keep that up longer than you can.

      • They aren’t my compadres, no matter how much some people around here keep wishing it were so.

        Team ideology is bullshit.

    • Swarf said:

      “… are full of shit.”

      I pooped this morning — certain of it. Thus, I do believe I have some space remaining. Perhaps *mostly* full. But *mostly* full, is a little bit *empty*. Compelling argument, though.

      Also, “Swarf” is debris or waste resulting from machining or similar; process waste. Perhaps a different choice of troll-handle is in order if you are going to declare people “…full of shit.”

      And any of you pretending that Trump wasn’t saying, days before the election, that if he didn’t win the election was rigged are full of ….

      Cheating the rules we’ve agreed to play by: rigged. Calling people on ditching the rules they’ve agreed to play by: as American as my Scots-Irish, white-trash heritage.

      Calling the system rigged for months before the election is hardly saying “if he didn’t win, the election was rigged.” You have cause and effect inverted. Before the fact, when he said this, he said the election is rigged, and he might not win because of the rigging.

      This is as American as it gets. The fundamental republican — small “r” — compact is an agreement among citizens on *how* we will go about governing ourselves together, including how we’ll execute elections.

      Indeed, *most* of the US Constitution (by word count) is *procedure*, contra the E U Charter (Which one? I forget which controls; there are so many), and the Soviet Constitution, both of which are full of high-sounding language about all the wonderful goals they are all about, and weak on how.

      “Justice”, but who decides what’s just, and how? Look what happens. Turns out it’s whoever holds the gun decides, as Mao said. (Paraphrasing. Also, the fundamental argument for armed citizens.)

      So, the Irish (& other) “referendum” to join the EU back in the day ain’t done until it comes out “yes.” And the Brexit came out wrong, so time for a procedural do-over. Fudamentally un-American.

      Recall — or perhaps learn for the first time — that from at lest Magna Carta, through The Enlightenment, and the American Revolution, to The New Deal, The Contract With America, and the various phrasings of the American social contract during the current administration, this notion of living by the rules we’ve agreed is consistent. And powerful — look what societies with rule of law do, compared to those without.

      Calling into question the fundamental basis of how America’s President is elected is un-American.

      Calling into question how other people are playing in the political game is as American as it gets. Calling out people *not* playing by the agreed rules is supporting the process, “… the fundamental basis of how America’s President is elected.”

      The US Constitution is a very idealistic, organized system of mutual distrust. Because of this, the fundamental charter included both dissent expressed on any topic, by any one, at any time, and a mechanism to change the charter itself. Question everything.

      There’s even room for crappy, misleading rhetoric. Like, oh, I don’t know…

      “Anyone on here saying that there weren’t thousands of Trump supporters calling for armed insurrection if Trump lost are full of shit.”

      Maybe. As not-robots, they are doing what they will, rather than responding to the latest sloganeering download from the overlords. (Who was backed by journolist again?) Shared their talking points with major media outlets? Colluded with “debate” “moderators” on questions?

      Who is rioting, right now?

      So, who’s subverting the process, the “basis”, the compact with their fellow citizens?

      It’s just disrespect. You don’t agree, you’re a deplorable, irredeemable, perhaps a bitter clinger from flyover country: you don’t count. You are so wrong you are a non-person, and we can do whatever we like to you. (What does that sound like?)

      So, maybe a more limited central government would help — you don’t have to have the will of the deplorables imposed on you.

      As for seceding, my answer is the same as what we in upstate said when downstate threatened to secede because they were under-appreciated: yes, please. More subtly, if you can’t stand not having you whole way, in a small set of policies that must be managed centrally, you will be better of without the rest of us, and we without you.

      I’d be fine if the blue strongholds went swiftly to what I consider heck, on the path they keep trying to impose on the rest of us … if they’d quit trying to impose on the rest of us. (The election map by state is misleading. Find one by county. How concentrated are the few, tiny places that Went With Her?)

      “The list goes on.”

      Indeed, it does.

      • Remove your trilby and take a bow, you typed a whole lot of words there and capitalized a good many of them. There were many flowery turns of phrase and flourishes, and you still managed to say almost precisely nothing. Except “Nuh uh!”

        And you got me to read every damn one of them looking for something that wasn’t term paper filler, but it wasn’t there!

        Quite a talent.

    • Counts enough for me. Kick them off school grounds immediately. Think about it, consult your parents, and we’ll see if you can behave tomorrow morning, if not don’t bother coming in.

      That is how you teach “life experience”.

      • It’s amusing that the lesson you want to teach them “Don’t think, do what you’re told, and government is always right!” but the real lesson they’d learn is that government is evil and people in positions of authority are incompetent jackasses who get off on bullying those who can’t fight back. Thankfully, the lesson they’d actually learn if you had your way would be the correct one.

  10. Water Wet = check, commies evil = check. There are two Americas, so depending on how you identify, they are either your bffl or blasphemous heretics.

  11. I don’t say the pledge of allegiance because I am a grown ass man. BUT I went to my kid’s elementary shool for a veterans day thung to represent the Corps, Semper Fi bros btw, And I got to say the pledge again. Weird thing is, in light of #Calexit, I had a hard time saying the “indivisable” part. GOD LET THE LEFT COAST SPLIT AND JOIN CHINA.

  12. One more thing, breeding two spotted cows???? I aint no rancher, But methinks a bull is required somewhere in your breeding program. Just saying.

    Or is this some new liberal transgenderneutral free range gluten free beef operation?

  13. Lets just say a venn diagram of anti-gunners, anti-americans, psycological and mental basket cases and marxist/communists looks pretty much like a single circle.

    • Not with common-core teaching. Short on facts and understanding, long on “our-way-or-the-highway.”

  14. Everyone certainly has the right to protest–peacefully, and so these children had the right to do so. However, their protest is misplaced. Refusing to say the pledge is a protest against “the country” (or as some would state, “the government”); but it was not the government who appointed Trump as President, it was we the people by a democratic election process who have done so. Protesting Trump, who isn’t even the President yet, is one thing, but refusing to avow your love of country is another altogether. No matter who leads, this is still the greatest country on earth.

  15. Again Trump won = America won, cry all you want complain all you want, the media is the one who started pouring fear into the Hitlary supporters and now we see all the hate and violence when you don’t get your way

    • Clinton used a compliant media to pour that fear into people. The media was the tool used. Like a gun, the media is harmless on its own and subject to the will of the person(s) wielding it. Good people use the media to do good things, bad people do bad things with the media.

      • Don’t lie to try and defend the propagandists. They knew that they were lying and they did it willingly.

  16. After all, when Obama became President the Right recognized it as the voter’s will and treated him with the respect the office deserves. They didn’t reject him as the legitimately elected leader of their country. They opposed his policies but worked to find common ground.

  17. I think they’re just ignorant and believe lies told about Donald Trump, and they have some pretty crazy ideas of what is going to happen under a Republican government. They really seem to think that Donald Trump is a Nazi style racist, and if they believe that, then you can understand why they’re angry. Problem is it’s not true.

  18. I stopped saying the Pledge of Obedience sometime in late elementary school. Nothing is less American than brainwashing children into supporting blind obedience to the government.

  19. Yes, yes they are.

    And I don’t say that as a snide comment. It’s that they have chosen to advocate against the rights of everyone in the nation under the guess of a safety mandate. This is absolutely counter to the very core concepts this republic is founded upon. No constitutional right may ever be taken away with out the due course of the law as strictly observed in said constitution. They are not privileges to be granted nor are they concepts to regulated at the whims of the current or future administrations. This is the very bed rock of the republic.

  20. IME, anti gunners come in three flavors.

    1) I don’t like guns and I don’t want to own one. These folks are anti gun in their own home but don’t care what you do.

    2) I don’t like guns. No one should have such a dangerous item. These people seek utopia, they’re idealistic peaceniks.

    3) I don’t like guns. Only the government should have them. These guys are flat out statists. While I’m sure they don’t see themselves as anti-American their world view is diametrically opposed to the Constitution and the very concept of the Republic.

    I hesitate to paint with a broad brush, but 3) does contain some flag burners. Those folks most certain are anti-American but as long as they don’t break them he law, they’re allowed to be so.

  21. They ARE anti-American & should get a one way ticket to the UK, Australia or other ‘utopia’–get the hell out & stay out

    • The UK maybe. Australia and the rest of the Commonwealth have pretty strict immigration statutes.

      The left is in despair because they’ve recently discovered that 95% of them don’t qualify to move to Canada or NZ. Having lived in NZ, I can tell you that 99.9999% of them don’t qualify. If you ain’t a doctor or a veterinarian your chances of getting residency in NZ are nearly 0.0%

  22. i don’t see how not standing for the anthem or not reciting the pledge makes anyone anti- gun.
    being young and idealistic is normal for many. to remain so after life has opened your eyes and crushed your heart like a grape a few times, well… there are some who remain that way.
    to be anti- gun seems anti- american to me.

  23. Yes they are. America is all about freedom of choice. They want to limit or ban freedoms all together. So yes.

  24. I don’t know about anti-American, but they sure seem like anti-common sense to me. The whole idea was to provide the American people with the purposes of effective self defense from criminals, invaders and some future government overstepping their restrictions.
    “Common sense” gun control should be removal of about 99.9% of the gun control laws.

  25. Lots of folks argue against an armed citizenry because other countries have firm laws restricting it.

    Sounds a whole lot like globalism, and not American.

  26. Absolutely they are un-American. They are the useful idiots that their socialist masters need to overthrow the republic and institute their socialist utopia. THIS TIME they’re going to do it right, unlike all those other times it went tragically wrong and resulted in deaths of millions.

  27. To me it’s a moot point. My definition of being “American” includes absolute conviction that the Second Amendment must be strictly adhered to and all infringements are un-Constitutional, illegitimate and should be repealed. So, to me, “Yes” anti-gun people are “un-American” and particularly so if they reject Donald Trump’s Election as POTUS.

    I recognize that to the anti-gun, anti-Trump crowd they believe their point of view is legitimate and the legitimacy of my point of view is in dispute. So, they call me “un-American”. I don’t care anymore what they call me than they care what I call them. This exchange of epithets offset each other and are, therefore, moot.

  28. Robert you’re so blindly ignorant. First of all, the second amendment is just as valid as the first amendment. Is it anti American to voice your opinion no matter what that opinion is? My son told me that this year in his middle school in Missouri that the law now is for the pledge of allegiance is to be read in every school. Without me saying anything, he said that he refused to do the pledge? Why? Because of the equal phrase, he thinks (which I concur) the America has never treated all of its citizens equally. I was proud of him. He went on to say that the constitution clearly states the separation of church and state, therefore the mention of God, shouldered included in the pledge. The bottom line from the clear mind of a 14 year old is that, I’m proud to be an American, but we haven’t lived up to the American ideals. You can protest an election, though I think it’s pointless, it’s your right, just as it’s the right to bear arms. Don’t put one amendment above another, America means equal.

  29. While I don’t think refusing to say the pledge is anti-American, I think the majority of anti-gunners are in the traitorous camp. It’s not that the left loves our country and simply opposes certain political ideas or government policies. They hate the whole thing from top to bottom. They hate our history, our culture, and the principles upon which our society is based.

  30. Some are hard core anti-American, some have just been indoctrinated by an ultra-left educational system.

    Many could be persuaded to support the Constitution if they were to take some old-school civics and history classes.

    We need to break the ultra-left’s control of the educational system and/or train youth to be subversive radical students.

    Most of us older Americans wouldn’t consider Appleseeds as radical and subversive but today’s left see it that way.

  31. Yes anti-gun civil rights people are Unamerican.
    You oppose the 1st amendment? Then you are also Unamerican.

  32. Anti American? Of course. But please , let the tantrums proceed. California…, by all means secede. 45 (or thereabouts) less electoral votes to overcome for the rest of us. Rioting in the streets…, yes by all means give Donald Trump an excuse to be the Nazi the left thinks he will be. It will take some stamina since he is not president for 2 more months. Don’t want to say the pledge ? Fine. My kids will pull out of public indoctrination camp and go to private school. EPA has to take a day off for grief counseling. Ok. We can get rid of the EPA in the first 100 days. Corporate CEO wants his Trump voting employees to quit. Great. I’m sure we will be behind you in the unemployment line but when the economy improves I bet we get hired first.
    Get my drift so far. I don’t care what the far left thinks or wants. I somehow did not sense any concern the past 8 years over what I thought. Maybe I was just being obtuse. There is a common sense answer to all of the nonsense. In the words of a soon to departed leader, “We won. Elections have consequences.
    Oh yeah, maybe in 4-8 years we can have 9 conservatives on the Supreme Court

  33. Most of these protesters are bought and paid for by the Democrat Party {like having a Muslim lecture the American people on American values he knows nothing about}
    Children get these ideas form the home, of course baby making moms for more welfare moneys do not have time too pay attention too their kids so let the neighborhoods raise the kids
    Doesn’t matter that the hood is controlled by radicals and kids who identify with trash sports players who are ignorant of what they speak!
    As a Veteran it causes anxiety to see so much disrespect for our flag and what it once stood for! they are not just disrespecting one race of Americans but all races! led buy the vain glorious !
    let’s give them too California with all the other fruits and nut jobs

  34. Anybody who thinks the symbolism of the US flag belongs to any particular presidential administration doesn’t understand America. And that also applies to any particular presidential administration who thinks the flag stands for them.

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