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OMG! Short-Barreled Shotguns! In Indiana! OMG!

Indiana recently repealed its blanket ban on the manufacture, import, sale or possession of “sawed-off” (a.k.a., short-barreled) shotguns. Federal NFA rules still apply. Hoosiers who want a short shotty must go through all the same federal checks and procedures that they would for a license to possess a machine gun, silencer or short-barreled rifle. Indiana po-po don’t anticipate any problems.

Shelby County Prosecutor Brad Landwerlen [via]:

Frankly, pistols are still much easier to conceal than a shotgun, and criminals will still want to be able to conceal the fact that they have a gun until they are ready to use the gun. Short-barreled rifles, machine guns, and silencers have been lawful under the same regulations for many years, but it is extremely rare for a person to use one in a crime.

In my 34+ years in law enforcement, I have still not seen any of these federally regulated weapons used in a crime. I feel that there is no need for any state to have a law prohibiting sawed-off shotguns, as they are already heavily regulated at the federal level by the BATF.

The change in law will also permit police officers acting in the course of their employment to possess and use short-barreled shotguns which was previously prohibited by Indiana law – and police can use every advantage they can get, particularly when executing warrants in tight quarters.

Add in a a 10-year sentence enhancement for anyone using a sawed-off shotgun while committing certain crimes (e.g., dealing in a controlled substance) and what’s the big deal? I’m not entirely glad I asked . . .

Why does Indiana need to sanction sawed-off shotguns? Why does Indiana want to put another weapon on the street that will give the bad guys another tool against police officers? They are particularly attractive to bad guys because they are easy to conceal.

A sawed-off shotgun is a nasty weapon. Killing is pretty much its only purpose in life.

Proponents of the new law also argue that all is well because the background check to own one of these weapons is extensive. Tell that to the unlicensed dealer who sells one at a Lake County gun show to a thug off the street.

McCarthy has produced statistics that show many of the guns seized in Chicago originated in Indiana. Kind of casts a pall over Hoosier pride. Makes you wonder how long it will be before Chicago police confiscate a sawed-off shotgun that was purchased in Indiana.

I like to think Indiana is better than this, that Indiana is steeped in common sense that says we don’t need to be endorsing sawed-off shotguns.

It would be wonderful if Indiana joined McCarthy and told the feds that enough is enough – we need to get weapons off our streets.

That would be commentator Rich James, spouting the usual blood-in-the-streets anti-gun rhetoric. Does Mr. James know that a criminal can saw off a shotgun barrel with a hacksaw in about ten minutes? Mr. James ignores reality to make his point: keeping certain guns double illegal is twice as good!

A quick suggestion for Hoosiers who jump through all the hoops needed to keep and bear a short-barreled shotgun in Indiana: have “Shall Not Be Infringed” engraved on the barrel and send Rich a pic.


  1. avatar pwrserge says:

    Yes… Note how many SBRs were used in ANY crime in Illinois since we legalized them a few years back. Oh… Wait… That would be NONE.

    1. avatar Joe R. says:

      No, there will be waves of crime and blood when the ban-lift finally goes into effect, as there always is when legal-minded legal-people acting legally get a renewed hold of previously infringed rights.

  2. avatar DickDanger says:

    I’m kinda confused by the wording; Do you no longer have to jumps through all the NFA hoops to get a SBS?

    1. avatar John L. says:

      No. It’s now not illegal, according to Indiana, to own one.

      This means, if you live in Indiana, you are now allowed to run that particular Federal obstacle course, rather than prohibited from even entering it, if you want an SBS.

    2. avatar JasonM says:

      Not if you’re a criminal. The state ban on shorty shotties was keeping the criminals from chopping their barrels. But now that it’s only illegal under federal law, they’re going to start doing it in large numbers. Check your local Home Depot. They’re probably completely sold out on hacksaws already. Blood in the streets! Guns! Aaaaaaa!

      1. avatar Pieslapper says:

        The depot had a sale on special “gunsmith grade” hacksaws, regular hacksaw 3 times the price.

        1. avatar Joe R. says:

          Well there’s the extra cost of the machining process of grinding off the blade’s serial #, so. . .

  3. avatar Danny Griffin says:

    I grew up in NW Indiana. A number of people I knew back then had SBS. None were legal, and none started out life that way. Just because someone in IL purchased a SBS in Indiana does not mean he purchased a factory made SBS from a dealer.

    1. avatar Avid Reader says:

      Yeah, odds are that he picked up the shotgun somewhere and did his own modifications with a hacksaw blade.

  4. avatar meadowsr says:

    “A quick suggestion for Hoosiers who jump through all the hoops needed to keep and bear a short-barreled shotgun in Indiana: have “Shall Not Be Infringed” engraved on the barrel and send Rich a pic.”

    Was that supposed to be a joke? Implying that “jumping through hoops” to get permission somehow satisfies the “Shall Not Be Infringed” requirement…

  5. avatar Removed_californian says:

    -Bad guy give no fucks
    -Bad guy buys m500
    -Bad guy buys hack saw from ace
    -Bad guy cuts off some bbl
    -Regulate the sale of assault hack saws… Do it for muh chilluns.

    This being said I am awaiting the Brady campaign, CSGV, et al to sue ace for providing a criminal with a tool…

  6. avatar Rusty Chains says:

    The Leftists in our country lack the mental clarity to understand that yet another law will not change the behavior of an evil man. A bank robber is no less likely to take a hack saw to a shotgun because they self righteously proclaim that folks who want to legally obtain various firearms are the problem. The bank robber is still going to rob that bank or a liquor store or a stop-n-rob because this is what he does. Until he tries to rob the wrong place and is shot by the good guy with a gun.

  7. avatar Omer Baker says:

    When I was reading, my mind read nitwit. I found it to be an apt description after reading his ignorant and naive article.

    1. avatar Cdotson says:

      You aren’t the only one. Honestly thought it said “nitwitimes”

      1. avatar Ing says:

        Ha! So did I.

        1. avatar JR Pollock says:

          That makes four of us. I was going to post a comment to that effect, but I might as well just jump on this train…

  8. avatar General Zod says:

    “Tell that to the unlicensed dealer who sells one at a Lake County gun show to a thug off the street.”

    I’d like to challenge Rich James to go to any gun show anywhere in the US and purchase any NFA item without a background check or proper paperwork. Or even find anyone attempting to sell said NFA items.

    Go on, Rich. I’ll wait.

    1. avatar Omer Baker says:

      Good idea. I’d be willing to buy lunch for Richy if he can find such a seller in any northwest Indiana gun show, IF Richy pays for my entrance, just to verify of course.

  9. avatar Art out West says:

    Now MAC from the Military Arms Channel can get some SBS to go with his SBR’s.

  10. avatar Chrispy says:

    “Does Mr. James know that a criminal can saw off a shotgun barrel with a hacksaw in about ten minutes?”

    And that’s if he has a dull hacksaw blade.

    1. avatar Bob says:

      No he doesn’t, because it’s a fair bet Mr James would assume that one clearly had to be a wizard, time traveler, or member of a advanced alien race, to operate such incredible technology. This is likely, because he himself has likely never picked up an implement of manual labor and only directed such Morlocks to operate them.

      Of course, if you demonstrated this to him he would only want to ban all shotguns and hacksaws.

      I’ll be sure to have him blunt all the pointy sticks in a forest near me.

      1. avatar The Trouble with Timbo says:

        Morlocks. Nice reference

        1. avatar JR Pollock says:

          Eh, he probably can’t change a tire or drive a stick shift car either.

    2. avatar Joe R. says:

      No, criminals never listen to their fathers, so they never got the lesson on the hack-saw “only cuts metal in one direction.” So, they might go through two to three blades to get it done.

      1. avatar JR Pollock says:

        I’d opt for a tactical pipe cutter

  11. avatar Bill Kohnke says:

    Let’s not forget the handicapped ans small stature shooters who benefit from using these guns. Or are their rights to be ignored?

  12. avatar OakRiver says:

    Because as we all know someone intent on using a firearm in the commission of a crime will always ensure that the firearm meets all legal criteria…..

  13. avatar Grindstone says:

    So he’s saying that SBSes will be used in crimes once they are legalized?

    1. avatar Another Robert says:

      Yeah, of course! All those “bad guys” have been just waiting , with salivating lips no doubt, for the state sanction against SBS’s to be lifted so that they can run out and get one [that is still illegal under Federal law, but still…). I mean, that’s how “bad guys” operate, right? They patiently wait until a particular weapon is made legal before they opt to commit a crime, rather than, say, use a different weapon or, well, use an illegal weapon illegally to commit what is, after all, another illegal act. How many folks must have been thus dissuaded from committing a capital murder because it is a misdemeanor or low-grade felony offense to unlawfully carry a handgun?? The number must be unimaginable…

      1. avatar JasonM says:

        I just checked with the Indianapolis branch of MS-13, and they’re already setting up an NFA trust and an account at the ATF website to e-file their form 1 paperwork.

  14. avatar OakRiver says:

    Another thought I just had (time to edit comment elapsed);

    So according to the anti-gun sentiment expressed by Rich James short barreled shotguns and pistols are too easy to conceal, but I’m willing to bet that he also thinks that someone carrying a long gun is making a political statement or is attempting to intimidate others.

  15. avatar Sian says:

    ” Makes you wonder how long it will be before Chicago police confiscate a sawed-off shotgun that was purchased in Indiana.”

    Right. Like someone is going to go through all that trouble to get a NFA legal sawed-off in Indiana when they can just illegally hacksaw one in Chi-town?

    I’m just going to laugh here.

  16. avatar Steve says:

    I saw the picture of the guy at the top an I was thrown off: he just oozed sanctimonious arrogance, but then the first quote was from someone with common sense.

    And then I read the second quote. And then I googled the dude to put a face to the name.


    Right again.

  17. avatar Ralph says:

    When I read Rich James’ vapid comments, I could hear very clearly the tinkling of pearls being clutched.

  18. avatar gsnyder says:

    Same nonsensical arguments attempt to make one believe keeping SBS’s illegal keep them out of the hands of criminals. Last time I checked a hack saw is still a legal tool and available. So far as the single most protective firearm one could stuff under the bed, how could you best a 00 buck in a SBS for the average person? You can argue all day but this firearm combines the least amount of skill to use with the greatest stopping power, and are cheap to buy (or invent). Even if illegal I’d not be afraid to have one for this only and sole purpose.

    1. avatar Joe R. says:

      The same can be said for fully automatic firearms, or dynamite. Banning their sale, purchase, possession, and use (or their regulation by some federal agency) does not protect you from these things any more than those in possession of them from not having an immediately piqued desire to do you harm with them. Many (if not possibly most) semi-automatic weapons can be converted to fully auto, or you can employ devices that force a semi-automatic to fire more quickly.
      Dangerous explosives can be formed from simple components. Nerve agents can be produced with a certain type of fire-extinguisher and a road flare. All you need to make Anthrax is a dead cows ass. No one can protect you at the individual level. No one. It is wrongful to say that they can. By logic, it should be assumed that, it only takes a particular level of human conflict or natural disaster before the people claiming they are there to protect you, are forced to merely subsist for themselves. “Protectors” at the federal level, too, are slow, rolling bean-bag slow, and are best at showing up long after the fact to scream “I’m in charge here, now somebody tell me what’s going on ?”

  19. avatar Former Water Walker says:

    I’ve BEEN to the Lake County gun show(Crown Point). Plenty of PO-leece hangin’ around. The local TV news was quite insane stupid on this one-“Sawed off shotguns! Crime in Illinois! Blood in the streets!”…blah blah blah…

  20. avatar JJ48 says:

    “Does Mr. James know that a criminal can saw off a shotgun barrel with a hacksaw in about ten minutes?”

    True, but it would be obvious that the work didn’t come from a professional, and if there’s one thing street thugs are known for, it’s being sticklers for quality craftsmanship.

  21. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

    “McCarthy has produced statistics that show many of the guns seized in Chicago originated in Indiana.”

    Perusing the ATF infographics on source states for firearms recovery, by state, Indiana does appear to be the single largest source….outside of Illinois itself…..of recovered firearms. How about that?

    Illinois itself is the source of between three and four times as many recovered, traced firearms as Indiana is. Recovered and traced, that is. There’s no telling where guns that were never recovered or couldn’t be traced originated.

    Moreover, even being the largest out of state source, Indiana still isn’t the source for more than about 10-15% of recovered and traced guns in Illinois. If Indie’s laws were oh so lax and flooding Illinois with guns, then where’s the flood? Why only 10-15%. And……why only Illinois?

    After all, Indiana is a minuscule percentage source of recovered and traced guns in the half dozen other states bordering it or in close proximity. Why does Indiana’s alleged flood of guns only flow to one of the most violent and gun-restrictive states in the country and not the others?

    Hmmm? One might say it’s because those states are freewheeling in their own right and don’t need to smuggle guns in when they’re already awash in their own. Perhaps. Then why don’t they have Illinois-esque violent crime rates? Why aren’t they, too, supplying easy peasy guns to Illinois?

    So many questions! No wonder the Illinoiances don’t have answers and dare not ask. It might distract them from their misdirection.

    1. avatar Joe R. says:

      How many firearms were those that came from police or court’s evidence lockers?

      If it’s ONE (1) the argument’s done.

      1. avatar Jonathan - Houston says:

        Checkmate, indeed.

  22. avatar Indiana Tom says:

    Yawn. I just do not see a significant impact on Indiana shotguns purchases due to this law. Most Hoosiers are to cheap and impatient to deal with NFA items.
    Besides, Grandpa had a sawed off shotgun and he really did not care if it was legal or not.
    On the other hand, most people stuff a magazine extender on their pump shotguns which usually go out at least as long as the current non-NFA barrel length.

  23. avatar Indiana Tom says:

    The change in law will also permit police officers acting in the course of their employment to possess and use short-barreled shotguns which was previously prohibited by Indiana law.
    Prior to this law, I did see short shotguns for sale at some gun shops in Indiana that catered heavily to LEOs. Not really sure if they were illegal to the LEO Departments. Maybe they were illegal for LEO personal use?

  24. avatar David says:

    I love being a Hoosier! Our legislature keeps looking for ways to make us more free! In 2013 they repealed the inheritance tax, legalized suppressors for hunting and legalized automatic knives. When the state has a budget surplus the state is required to give the money back to us as an income tax rebate. And that happens quite often while all the Dem controlled states around us are broke. I heard that Indiana has the lowest number of state employees per capita in the nation yet state services are very efficient and the state employees I regularly deal with are very nice. Only problem is all the “refugees” moving into NW Indiana from Illinois vote Democrat after moving here like the idiots they are.

  25. avatar Rem870 says:

    Nonsense, criminals don’t use legal firearms.

  26. avatar Mike Bryant says:

    You can not walk into a gun show at the Lake country fairgrounds and buy a short barreled shotgun! The NFA rules still apply and all background checks! The commentary on the article is ridiculous!

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