OMG! A Gun Range! Next to a Woman’s Shelter! OMG!

 "Adelante Village, a women's shelter currently under construction by the Erin Kimball Memorial Foundation, and Dixie Gun Worx, a firearms shop on Wednesday, August 21, 2013." (courtesy

“As often as he can, Don Kimball works to renovate a big home that will offer secure apartments for women and children who have fled domestic violence and exhausted their time in shelters. But literally a stone’s throw away, a gunsmith shop [Dixie GunWorx] plans a shooting range with 11 lanes, one for tactical weaponry used by law enforcement, that point at Kimball’s property.” But? You’d think that, a paper publishing in gun-friendly Utah, wouldn’t see any problem with a gun range and a woman’s shelter in close proximity. In fact, you might think that they’d think it was a good idea; with all those law-abiding armed Americans nearby the word “deterrence” springs to mind. Apparently not . . .

Sue Kimball, who with her husband founded the Erin Kimball Memorial Foundation 14 years ago, says the idea that their tenants might hear the gunfire “makes me sick.”

Erin’s and the children’s lives, she said, “ended with gunshots, and the only thing we have on the death certificates is multiple gunshots to all three of them. It’s such a violation of our work and of our daughter, literally.”

Literally? That’s a bit strong. Anyway, I’m confused. How is a gun range a “violation” of the Kimball’s work with domestic violence? Hoplophobia! Trauma creates a subconscious stimulus – response pattern linking gunfire and the fight, flight or freeze response (a.k.a., “panic attacks”).

Yvette Rodier, who survived multiple gunshot wounds in 1997 at Little Dell Reservoir, tells of her ongoing torment from the attack. Firearms, a balloon popping, gunshots on TV, a car backfiring and fireworks all leave her frozen in place, her heart beating wildly.

See how that works? Now here’s the funny thing . . .

“Exposure therapy” is a recommended treatment for phobias. Basically, if you experience the stimulus/trigger often enough your subconscious mind says FTS and tells your adrenal gland to stand down. (It’s the same principle behind operational familiarity.) So living next to a gun range could cure Ms. Rodier. While we’re at it, how about turning fear into power?

[Dixie GunWorx’ CEO Chris] Michel told Fox13 TV in August that he’s thankful to the Kimball home “for what they do for the victims themselves. [We hope they] take some of our classes. We would love to do that for anybody that’s been that kind of a victim, for free. Some of the classes we’re going to be able to help them with are self-defense, home defense, rape prevention.”

But Sue Kimball, herself a victim of violence in her first marriage, told the council that the Erin Kimball Foundation “is a place for families fleeing domestic violence and … trying to get away from knives and guns, any form of weapons.”

Silly woman. You can’t get away from weapons. As commentator CCW Guy told us in a recent DGU post, a bad guy can use a rolled-up People magazine to poke you in the chest and break your ribs. Alternatively, a self-defender can use a rolled-up People magazine to poke the bad guy in the ribs.

Yes there is that. People treating people who’ve experienced domestic violence can give them a false sense of security and encourage them to think of themselves as victims. Or they can teach them how to harness their situational awareness and defend themselves against those who do them and their loved ones harm. The local planning board didn’t quite see it that way.

In the end, the Planning Commission voted 3-2 to deny the permit. Barely a week later, the mayor and City Council, acting as the appeal authority, granted it. The authority was working as a “quasi-judicial” body, meaning there was no testimony, and its decision cannot be administratively appealed. A yearly compliance review will be required . . .

Kirk Smith, a former Washington County sheriff and a veteran of the Utah Highway Patrol, sits on the board of the Erin Kimball Foundation . . . “We want something better. The Erin Foundation offers peace and help,” he said. “It hurts when you hear other people who think target practice is more important.”

On Friday, foundation leaders filed a lawsuit against the City Council over its approval of the range, calling it “illegal, arbitrary and capricious, and not based on substantial evidence.”

What a waste of time, effort and money. The road to hell and all that.


  1. avatar paultmccain says:

    Take the women in the shelter over to the range and teach them how to use a firearm so they can defend themselves from the slimeballs responsible for causing women to seek shelter in the first place.

    1. avatar RKBA says:

      This is the obvious solution. But a vast majority of people will categorically dismiss logic and reject the obvious in trade for a brief moment of self righteous and self important ego boosting in an effort to ultimately provide some small semblance of meaning and purpose to their otherwise unimportant (and unnecessary) existence.

      1. avatar Ardent says:

        You nailed it RKBA. These are people who have so little in their lives that they have to manufacture straw men to defeat in order to feel as if their lives have meaning.

    2. avatar percynjpn says:

      Please don’t bring logic into the discussion – it’s not wanted.

  2. avatar RKBA says:

    When you stop and think about it, and I mean really, really think about it, isn’t it amazing, if not beyond comprehension, that the human race has not self extinguished yet?

    At this point in time, Idiocracy (check iMDb) appears overly optimistic to me.

    1. avatar C says:

      It’s only recently that people have become rich enough to worry about inconsequential bullshit.

    2. avatar NYC2AZ says:

      Idiocracy: The only movie that started out as satirical fiction and turned into a historical documentary.

  3. avatar William Burke says:

    “cure Ms. Rodier”

    I don’t believe Ms. Rodier WANTS to be cured. Like victims of incest, she clings to it as the only thing she can recognize as uniquely her own.

    Except it AIN’T “unique”. Ms. Rodier.

    1. avatar Swarf says:

      PTSD is not just for soldiers.

      While I agree that the logical answer is to teach these women to defend themselves from any asshole who would try and hurt them, there is also something to be said for being sensitive to the concerns of people who have been hurt and are literally (there’s that word again) gunshy.

      1. avatar BHirsh says:

        Sensitivity is all very well and good, but the world cannot allow sensitivity to paralyze it from operating normally in reality.

        Perhaps Sue might want to look into soundproofing her ‘shelter’ from those ‘brutalizing’ gun noises.

        1. avatar Rich Grise says:

          And outfit all the rooms with large cribs, for that extra little feeling of security, and a blankie….

        2. avatar William Burke says:

          I really wish I knew what you were saying.

        3. avatar Rich Grise says:

          I was being sarcastic about the battered women getting freaked out by the sound of gunfire, so they should be protected from realty so that they will “feel” safe. Then someone commented, “Will they not also have any knives?” and the thing was getting more bizarre about protecting these victims from any reality at all that might make them nervous – I was going for the reductio ad absurdam of “well, if we’re going to keep them cradle-safe, we might as well go all the way,” hoping that the sarcasm would be obvious.

        4. avatar William Burke says:

          It wasn’t. But I get it now.

    2. avatar Swarf says:

      Wait a minute, you think victims of incest are “clinging to it” just to feel special? Like what, they should just walk it off?

      “Yeah, I was sexually assaulted and raped when I was 7 thru 11 by my Dad, the person I trusted most in the world. No big deal. It certainly hasn’t affected the way I am able to cope with reality or the way i handle relationships with other people. Pass the peanuts”

      What the fu*k is wrong with you?

      Wait, on second thought, I don’t want to know.

      1. avatar William Burke says:

        I NEVER SAID it wasn’t a big deal. IT IS, OBVIOUSLY. I wish morons like you could read with comprehension, but it’s too much to ask.

        I SAID THEY CLING TO THEIR PAIN like it was something UNIQUE and SPECIAL, and REFUSE HELP to relieve them from their blessed pain. If you don’t understand the complex factors that comprise human behavior, you’d do well to just SHUT UP AND LEARN SOMETHING FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE.

        1. avatar Swarf says:

          Okay, first off, calm the hell down. You type like steroids.

          Secondly, and I think this is why you got so OFFENDED, you clearly said in your first post that victims should just get over it and stop clinging to their pain. When I called you on it you flew off the handle and acted like I made stuff up. I didn’t. It’s right there.

          An important thing to point out here is that a woman’s shelter is a place where women go to “get over it”, and the sound of gunfire next door might not be the most helpful thing for some of them.

          Your unwarranted rage is kind of proving my point.

        2. avatar William Burke says:

          Show me where I said, “get over it.” You put words in my mouth, expect more of the same.

  4. avatar Mark N. says:

    When administrative remedies are exhausted (as stated in the article) then there is a judicial remedy by way of writ of administrative mandate proceedings. The standard of proof applicable (in the states that I know of) to overturn an administrative determination is that the administrative tribunal’s determination was “arbitrary and capricious, and not based on substantial evidence.” In other words, the lawsuit merely reiterated the applicable standard that plaintiffs have to establish in order to prevail–and failure to so allege would have rendered that action legally insufficient (“defective”) as a matter of law.

  5. avatar jwm says:

    Point out to the women in the shelter that some of that noise is being made by cops training. Cops, right up the street. Win-win for all but the abuser stupid enough to show up at the shelter.

  6. avatar Ardent says:

    Ardent’s Axiom: One cannot be honest, sane, and well informed while also being a hoplophobe.

    The objectors seem sane and thus must be either misinformed, dishonest, or both.
    One could argue that they are invested in victims in such a way that empowering those victims with firearms and (free) effective training would take away their customer base.

    A less cynical view is that they are misinformed and thus think that there can never be a healthy nexus of victims and weapons.

    Either way they are wrong and it’s encouraging that the city has agreed to the permit.

  7. avatar tmm says:

    In the end, the Planning Commission voted 3-2 to deny the permit. Barely a week later, the mayor and City Council, acting as the appeal authority, granted it. The authority was working as a “quasi-judicial” body, meaning there was no testimony, and its decision cannot be administratively appealed. A yearly compliance review will be required . . .

    Depending upon the way the local government there works, the planning commission’s vote may be a recommendation, which the council and mayor can take under advisement and grant or deny independently, as the planning commission’s vote is probably non-binding. Council may frequently but certainly not exclusively follow recommendations…I’ve sat through many (of my) local council meetings to attest to that.

    “Appeal authority” … “quasi-judicial” ….? Way to be non-partisan, SL Tribune.

  8. avatar Bruce says:

    People who are victims of violence tend to avoid violence in any form. That’s human nature. The gun range should make them feel safer but it probably won’t. I sort of understand, the first 4th of July I was back from Vietnam was hell. I kept flinching and jumping from every firecracker.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      Understood, Bruce, but how are you now? If you are better is it because no one uses firecrackers on the 4th anymore or because they always do and you’ve gotten over it? Same concept being discussed here.

      1. avatar Ardent says:

        Whenever I hear fireworks in the distance, to this very day, I think of an artillery barrage. Over time though it’s not cause for concern or even a bad memory, it’s nostalgic. Time and desensitization heals most wounds.

  9. avatar CarlosT says:

    So, no knives… Food prep seems like it could be a challenge. I guess you could try to tear everything with your hands.

    1. avatar Rich Grise says:

      You beat me to it.

  10. avatar RepubAnon says:

    When your ex has repeatedly threatened to shoot you and your children, the sound of gunfire nearby may not be all that reassuring.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      Kind of depends on who’s doing the shooting and which way the bullets are going, seems to me. Might be a little politic if they could point the range AWAY from the shelter, though.

      1. avatar Rich Grise says:

        I was also going to mention this.

    2. avatar jwm says:

      My response to being threatened is to arm myself. My teachings to my daughters was the same. They’re armed. Go ahead and try and mistreat one of them.

      I had a cousin, biker trash, that died proving you can’t rape a .38. My daughters don’t need a shelter and neither does the woman that killed my cousin.

    3. avatar Ardent says:

      I’m sure, at first, and then you realize that those sounds are just people doing things people do. They aren’t a threat and nothing bad happens when you hear that sound. . .healing begins. The other option is to adopt a victim mentality and stay with it through every loud noise, disturbing sight or unusual situation.

    4. avatar BHirsh says:

      One has no constitutionally enumerated fundamental right to be “reassured”. While this touchy-feely appeal to ‘sensitivity’ is perhaps understandable, the mayor and city council were correct to grant the permit.

      One person’s feelings have absolutely no legitimate power to interfere with another’s rights and lawful commerce, no matter what sympathy those feelings might inspire.

      We live in a constitutional republic, not a direct democracy.

  11. avatar Leadbelly says:

    From looking at the pictures, and reading the original article, something is apparent that is never explicitly mentioned in the text: the gunsmith operation, at least, appears to be a substantial, going concern. It would appear to have already been there when decision was made to build the women’s shelter, which is in the early stages of construction.

    If someone has more information, let me know if I’m off base here.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      No definite info, but it probably has to do with the gunsmith being a going concern but the addition of the shooting range is new.

      At any rate, they knew the gun shop was there when they started building – didn’t they think then that the proximity to people carrying guns might be an issue for their client/victims?

  12. avatar Lance says:

    Id say to battered women come to our range we protect you tell these fascist PIGs to jump off the ridge.

    1. avatar RKBA says:

      I was absolutely floored the first time I discovered a battered women shelter. Up until that time, I had always eaten mine plain.

      1. avatar Andrew says:

        Oh man, You are naughty. I Lol’ed.

      2. avatar Denny says:

        Good one.. Here’s one: A little Honey on Honey makes things sweeter

  13. avatar Bob Damon says:

    Nice of them to let everyone know where the shelter is located. Will be easier for the people looking for these women.

    1. avatar Russ Bixby says:

      Point. Unless it’s a large operation, a safe house tends toward discretion.

    2. avatar Stinkeye says:

      To be fair, if they maintained uber-strict OPSEC, how would the abused women find the place? It’s a facility intended to serve members of the public, not a top-secret bunker.

      1. avatar Matt in FL says:

        Someone made a comment in another thread about driving battered women back to their own home to collect personal items, where the woman would have about 10 minutes to gather what she could before it was back into the car to meet another driver who knew where the women’s shelter was. You can maintain pretty good OPSEC from a casual observer and still serve the public.

  14. avatar mike says:

    The Trib is an uber-liberal rag that acts like a spoiled brat kid rebelling against his parents. Any ‘news’ from it should be viewed in that light. (I live in Salt Lake County)

  15. avatar shawn says:

    Didn’t exposure therapy get that sniper killed at the range. Oh yeah…it did. They have a right to speak their mind. If that is how they feel…so what. If that is how they feel about guns, who are we to tell them otherwise. What do you think you are…The USA Government.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      I have not seen a follow-up to that story. Did they catch he guy who shot him and if so do they actually know WHY he shot him? Just asking.

      1. avatar Matt in FL says:

        They caught him almost immediately, and the reason he did it is that he’s a crazy person. Multiple in-and-outs from mental hospitals, and it’s been reported that “he said he was out target shooting with Kyle and Littlefield, but didn’t trust them so he killed them before they could kill him.”

    2. avatar BHirsh says:

      Speak their mind(s), yes. Interfere with another’s lawful commerce? I think not.

  16. avatar ChuckN says:

    Dixie GunWorx needs to tell those in the shelter to fight fire with fire;
    accurate fire that is. Counter by showing evidence of the number
    of women saved by firearms. Relate the number of times a restraining
    order was ignored ending in hospitalization or death. For a finale
    offer any woman at the shelter free membership and instruction.

  17. avatar Rob says:

    Here’s a question: Has that woman’s shelter turned away a man and his child(ren) fleeing from an abusing wife and mother?

    If they have: They can FOAD.

    If they haven’t: They can grind and bear it. There are worse things than a shooting range.

  18. avatar Bill says:

    The Tribune is the left-leaning paper in the state. Which is good when it comes to calling the mormon church out on its occasional indiscretions but is a pain in the ass most of the time.

  19. avatar Sixpack70 says:

    This situation sounds similar to people who build next to a dragstrip or racetrack, and then want to close down the dragstrip and race track. I know it is a little more involved than that, but they did choose to establish a shelter next to a gunsmith. I know the gunsmith in town shoots firearms in the building in a mini range to test them.

    1. avatar Rich Grise says:

      I’ve also seen that phenomenon with airports, twice! (i.e., two different airports in two different states.)

      1. avatar William Burke says:

        That’s PRECISELY the same as Californians moving to Colorado (or elsewhere) and deciding to change it into another California.

        1. avatar Rich Grise says:

          NO! The ones leaving California are moving to ESCAPE the creeping red tide of liberalism. They’re expatriates. Welcome them; they’re on our side. Not all people who live in California are liberal socialists – I invite you to take a look at the demographics of Orange County.

        2. avatar William Burke says:

          The Californians who moved to Colorado and passed some of the most severe gun control laws ever seen in the Southwest are ON OUR SIDE? I should WELCOME THEM?

          I need a stiff drink; they’re free and plentiful when you’re dreaming.

        3. avatar Rich Grise says:

          Come on. Can you show any documentation that can verify this? Or are you just being hysterical? If it is true, why didn’t you stop them when you had the chance?

        4. avatar William Burke says:

          I never lived in Colorado and I’ve never been IN California. WTF are you talking about, “stop them”? If you had a drink, I’d take it away from you.

          What the hell do you THINK happened in Colorado? Have you been paying attention AT ALL?

          Will someone else explain to Rich what happened in Colorado, since clearly he won’t believe me…

        5. avatar Rich Grise says:

          Well, apparently not. All I’ve really heard in the nooz is that there are some grabbers in high office who are being recalled because they’re too flagrant about it. And I really wasn’t aware that CA socialists would leave CA – I thought they’d love this socialist utopia they’ve created for themselves and inflicted on the rest of us. Do they leave the utopia they’ve created because they don’t like the results, but rather than put it back the way it was, they run away? That’s just a little mind-boggling for me.

        6. avatar William Burke says:

          They like the Colorado scenery. And the opportunity to f*ck up one more state. I mean, create another utopia. Sorry about that.

          Don’t you even read this blog?

        7. avatar Rich Grise says:

          @William Burke: Do you read this blog?

          I changed my tune about three days ago. I now have been convinced that CA grabbers are moving to CO, and have already apologized for being a dork about it. So would you kindly get off my back already?

        8. avatar Old Ben turning in grave says:

          @Rich Grise

          Some are as you describe. I’m a conservative ex-Californian, I know a few others that have moved to Idaho, Montana, and Texas. But it seems far too many just move out for better jobs/business ops, but don’t get the essential connection between lack of opportunities in CA and their own voting habits.

        9. avatar Rich Grise says:

          OK, I stand corrected.

        10. avatar Matt in FL says:

          Rich, do you drink heavily before you come to comment here? This is (I think) the third time in as many days that you’ve gotten in an argument with someone over effectively nothing, a basic misunderstanding or miscommunication. It makes for acceptable popcorn reading, I suppose.

        11. avatar Rich Grise says:

          Nah, I just was in a state of disbelief that it was true. I’ve been enlightened now, and suitably chastised, so I’ll shut up about it and apologize for once again being an uninformed dork shooting off my mouth.

  20. avatar Ray says:

    Women + guns? Just say no.
    Dumbest thing I ever did was buy the ex- a gun.

  21. avatar Glenn in Oklahoma says:

    I can’t think of anything more therapeutic and more empowering for an abused woman than to learn some armed and un-armed self-defense.

  22. avatar James says:

    If that were my gun shop, I’d offer free firearm training for women staying at the shelter, both to be neighborly and to show the hoplophobe who went to the papers that just maybe she’s the one whose being unreasonable. They might also be able to get some police officers to give self-defense classes to interested residents. Such efforts are the surest way to convert fear into strength.

  23. avatar Matt in FL says:

    If it’s an indoor range, it’s likely that it would barely even be audible from the house that far away. If it was (barely) audible, then a simple wooden fence would probably provide enough noise abatement to make even that go away.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      But Matt, it’s just the IDEA that people are over there and they have GUNS! And they’re shooting them! OMG! /sarc

      1. avatar William Burke says:

        Yep. That’s exactly it.

  24. avatar Pat says:

    Seems like the right kind of place for women to go to become empowered (as Sam Colt made us all equal and all).

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      I’d bet that most of them aren’t the least interested in “empowerment”. Their victimhood is THEIRS, baby, and they’ll fight you if you try and take it away.

  25. avatar Venator Magnus says:

    The Tribune made headlines last year when it endorsed Obama over Romney. Of course, that came as no surprise to Utahns, who know that the Tribune has been staunchly left-leaning and the defacto anti-Mormon organ in the state since its founding in 1871. But for outsiders unfamiliar with the culture of Utah and the partisan/religious nature of newspaper subscriptions, it shocked them. The Mormon Church-owned Deseret News has a center-right political leaning and, as the Tribune’s biggest competitor, is pretty neutral on Second Amendment issues.

  26. avatar Azrael says:

    The gun range should provide free classes self defense classes both armed and unarmed to the women of the shelter. Additionally they should offer discounts on firearms, range time, ammo, mace, also provide volunteers, logistics or anything to reenforce that they support the shelter. This would go along way to help them show good PR towards women’s shelter and crush the stigma that guns are bad.

    1. avatar Rich Grise says:

      An open house, with coffee, punch, and munchies, put on by the lady shooters.

      1. avatar William Burke says:

        Did somebody say “shooters”?

        1. avatar Rich Grise says:

          No. I firmly believe that firearms and stupid juice are a very volatile combination.

        2. avatar William Burke says:

          Volatile and fun!

        3. avatar Rich Grise says:

          @William Burke: sure, until somebody takes a drunken ND in the face.

        4. avatar William Burke says:

          I’m not talking about shooting BLOTTO, Rich. If you know enough to not point a gun at anyone, you know it when you’ve had a couple beers, too. If you were right about shooting and drinking, then there wouldn’t be any good ole boys left in the South…

          Obviously, there are plenty.

        5. avatar Rich Grise says:

          OK, I’ve learned yet another thing. I’ve seen a lot of people have just a few beers and they’re fine, impairment-wise. I guess the place to draw the line for me is, if it bothers me, for me not to go there. Live and let live, eh wot?. The way I preach Liberty, it’s hypocritical of me to sit here on my ivory high-horse and say, “thou shalt not shoot after one beer!’ Heck, when shooting darts at the bar, we called it “aimin’ juice.” But when a modern bar dart hits you in the jugular vein, it just bounces off. I guess it’s just that I’ve seen too many people who can’t “hold their liquor,” myself included. And maybe, since I can’t handle alcohol, I’m just a little envious of those who can. Then again, I do enjoy happy-smoke, and there are some who would judge me for that, there are some who would want to throw me in an iron cage for smoking flowers. And I wouldn’t want to go shooting stoned, either. 🙂
          Peace, brother!

        6. avatar William Burke says:

          Drinkin’ and tokin’. Back in the sixties, my friends and I referred to ourselves as “bothers”. With a long O, not the other pronunciation. Although that may have been true, as well….

  27. avatar sindaan says:

    The logic of trying to get away from weapons is amusing. Do they not have knives in the kitchens there? What about rolling pins? Can openers? Regular “butter” knives?

    Hands are weapons. Is everyone also without hands?

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      Why don’t you step up and give them a hand?

  28. avatar Russ Bixby says:

    I dunno. Logic isn’t the only thing applicable here.

    I spent some time in jail and was seemingly prison-bound before the real offender — who looked a lot like me* — was caught and I was exonerated.

    Loud metal on metal sounds such as a dumpster being banged about still give me the jitters twenty-some years on.

    “Exposure therapy” is all well and good, but it should be voluntary rather than imposed. Also, sleeping kids et cetera give me cause to question the wisdom of having ranges in residential areas.

    Honestly, how many of us stand up and sing the praises of the First Amendment every time a sonic rapist boom car drives past?

    This one isn’t black and white, and I seriously hope that at the very least the range will do their level best to contain the noise.

    I also hope that some of these refugees will take classes, and perhaps convince others to.

    I suspect they’ll figure it out.

    * His misfortune. 😉

    1. avatar Stinkeye says:

      Yeah, the “exposure therapy” argument is pretty weak here. Can it work? Sure. Does it always? Ask Chris Kyle.

      1. avatar BHirsh says:

        Exposure therapy indeed is NOT the issue. Women getting back to dealing with reality is.

        Anything that perpetuates the victimhood mindset is counterproductive, and should be adjusted to do the opposite.

        The real issue is that while we should sympathize with victims, we can’t let them interfere with the normal operation of society.

        1. avatar William Burke says:

          But what about FEELING THEIR PAIN? It makes them SPECIAL! It makes them UNIQUE!

          None of which is even remotely true…. but my point is this. A family counselor (I know!) explained this to me in great detail once. People let themselves be defined by their pain; in time, they become so attached to their pain that they will FIGHT anyone who tries to help remove that burden from them.

          That’s the short version.

        2. avatar Rich Grise says:

          Ah. It’s like without the pain, there’s nothing at all. “What if I open up and reveal the true me, and there’s nothing there?” A newly-sober alcoholic in the whipped-puppy stage of their recovery feels exactly like that. So I’m walking proof that that fear can be healed. It doesn’t matter the source, fear is fear. Everybody’s fear feels exactly the same as anybody else’s fear, the only difference being degree.
          And you fix it, not by denying anything that reminds you of the initial fear, but figuring out what’s scary about whatever scared you in the first place, and make it not scary. “Oh don’t worry about those monsters under the bed. The only power they has is the power to scare you. Take that away from them, and then the monsters will go away because scaring you isn’t any fun any more. And they really are more afraid of you than you are of them – why else do you think they’re always hiding around the corner or in the shadows? They’re terrified you’ll find out how little and helpless they really are. They need your love. Hey, monsters, it’s OK – you can come home now.” And the scariness will just drain away.

          Well, something like that. %-}

        3. avatar William Burke says:

          “Ah. It’s like without the pain, there’s nothing at all. “What if I open up and reveal the true me, and there’s nothing there?”

          EXACTLY! When people allow themselves to define themselves solely by their pain, they become numb to the pain of others. And that’s pretty much losing one’s humanity and becoming a walking weeping sore.
          It’s a horribly self-limiting and self defining thing to fall into. Every counselor, every analyst worth their salt is supposed to help such people break on through to the other side, because it’s a self-constructed, miserable prison.

          It’s the exact opposite of empowerment; it’s self-DISempowerment.

        4. avatar Rich Grise says:

          “Every counselor, every analyst” – I’m impelled to comment here. Everyone who’s been in a 12-step program knows that the analysts are the sickest of the lot. As long as you can “fix” others, you don’t have to look at yourself. They forget that when you point your finger at someone, there are three fingers pointing right back at yourself.

        5. avatar William Burke says:

          “Ah. It’s like without the pain, there’s nothing at all. “What if I open up and reveal the true me, and there’s nothing there?”

          I had a really good reply; you’ve got it, but it disappeared into the effing caprices of the Mister Spam Dicerator. FIX IT!!!! There was nothing obscene of objectionable IN IT. Mister Spam Dicerator is AN IGNORANT PIECE OF GARBAGE.

        6. avatar Rich Grise says:

          Just a few minutes ago, I had a response to the CA lib invasion of CO thread ready, trying to explain why it took so long for me to “get it,” which was just that I found it hard to believe that it was true, but I’ve been enlightened now. I would like to hear your comments about the fear of being empty inside – I’m sure you can talk around it well enough that I’ll get your point.

        7. avatar William Burke says:

          It wasn’t MY fear I was talking about.

    2. avatar Rich Grise says:

      Does anyone know if they plan to build one of those solid wood noise fences
      or maybe a big berm?

      1. avatar William Burke says:

        Sounds unnecessary. But if it helps quiet those women’ irrational fear of cops with guns next door…
        Except it won’t.

  29. avatar Layne says:

    So this shelter for abused women, many with credible threats to their lives, has no armed security at all? And has now publicized it’s exact location? How stupid can you really be and still remember to breathe?

    If you stand outside the emergency exit to my local indoor range (the door connects directly to the firing line). You can hear the shots. Not even as loud as a quiet conversation. Looks like the location in question is at least 100ft AND down over a retaining wall AND there’s probably traffic on the street. If they can hear shots at all it will be because they are standing on the propertly line holding their breath waiting for a break in traffic. Which I’m positive is exactly what they’re going to do.

    1. avatar Rich Grise says:

      <insensitive humour>
      A cop responded to a call about a neighbor exposing himself, and the lady caller was offended. The cop gets there and the lady says, “come on, you can see him exposing himself from the bedroom window.” The cop follows her upstairs, looks out the window, and sees nothing. He reports as much, “Ma’am, I’m sorry, but I don’t see anything offensive out there.” She says, “Oh, you have to stand on the bed and use these binoculars.”
      </insensitive humour>

    2. avatar William Burke says:

      Whaddaya MEAN, “no security”? The shelter has WOMAN POWER!

  30. avatar Oddux says:

    “You’d think that, a paper publishing in gun-friendly Utah” SLtrib is a liberal rag in a liberal county.

    I’ve said this before, but in the next 10 years Utah is going to go the way of Colorado. With a constant influx of Californians moving to Utah with their companies, who are moving their operations here because of California’s law becoming increasingly burdensome for businesses, Salt Lake county is constantly becoming more and more liberal. Though the rest of the state is still overwhelmingly conservative, the more vocal and more population dense Salt Lake county is becoming more and more heavily democrat and anti-2A.

    1. avatar Rich Grise says:

      Um, I don’t think it’s the liberals who are escaping. Please don’t paint all people who live in California with the same broad brush. The Free people who can afford to escape the metastasizing cancer of Big Gubmint would be loath to bring that same disease along with them.

      If you feel like it, and have time, I invite you to check the demographics of Orange County, CA.

      1. avatar William Burke says:

        So the Californy liberals moved to Colorado (demonstrable), but it’s the Cali CONSERVATIVES who’ll move to Utah?? C’mon, Rich. You’re not thinking this through.

        “If you feel like it, and have time, I invite you to check the demographics of Orange County, CA.”

        Rich, you know PERFECTLY WELL an exception doesn’t make the rule.

        1. avatar Rich Grise says:

          No, of course not. But I maintain that whoever says “ALL” of anything are this or that is engaging in all-or-nothing thinking, and doing a disservice to him/herself and others.
          For example:
          “All black people are lazy freeloaders.”
          “All white people are racist.”
          “All men are pigs.”
          “All women are whores.”
          “All Middle Easterners are bloodthirsty murderers who want to kill Americans.”
          “All gun owners are violent psychos just waiting to go off.”

          See what I mean?

  31. avatar JTwig says:

    Articles such as this make me laugh and shake my head! The field where I coach youth soccer (including kindergarten players) is right next to a small indoor range; roughly 30-yards from the nearest field. You can hear the muted pop-pop of firearms all day Saturday even on the field furthest from the range. Yet, I’ve never heard of a child or parent complaining to the league organizers.

  32. avatar John E> says:

    Some victims will always be victims. Some will get over it. Some will go back to the same abuser or find a new one. The people of this country are less self dependent, more victimhood oriented than in years past. Just look at the quality of youth coming out of college. I fear we are long past the roll up your sleeves and get it done mentality. Too many wish to live in a bubble, its tiresome.

    1. avatar Rich Grise says:


  33. avatar irock350 says:

    So a credible business that has been onsite and open for 3 years plans to expans its business, but because a Woman’s shelter moved in, well is in the process of moving in, they have yet to open their doors, they cannot build a range, even though they were their first? Seems like if the founders didn’t mind having a gun store next to them, but a gun range is unacceptable.

    1. avatar Old Ben turning in grave says:

      Or, more likely, planned to make a stink about the gun store all along but seized on the range addition as an easier first target.

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