TTAG reader Josh Grabow writes:
I should say right off that I stand with many of my armed brothers in skepticism of police militarization generally and opposition to police immunity in some specific cases. I think it is one of the defining domestic politics issues of my generation. However, we should never forget that police are not stormtroopers, they are people. My CPL (Concealed Pistol Licence, because Michigan can’t just call it a CCW) and a failed brake line recently brought me into contact with one of my town’s officers, and I thought the tale deserved to be told . . .
Long story compressed as far as possible, my brake line blew in rush hour traffic and I impaled my front bumper on a very large trailer hitch. The other driver and I pulled off into a parking lot to discuss things and since his truck was a school vehicle, the police were called. An officer B arrived to take our statements and write up the report. As required by law, I handed him my CPL with the driver’s license and registration.
He glanced at it, handed it right back, and asked “Are you carrying right now?”
When I replied that I was, he said “Good! No point in having the license if you aren’t going to carry every day! It does you no good at home.”
When the paperwork was done and the other driver had left, I was waiting on a tow truck. The officer hung around for an extra minute or two to talk CPL shop, asked after what sort of firearm I carried, which turned out to be the same as his off-duty piece. We talked briefly about local ranges and shops, and the best place to get a S&W trigger job. I’ll admit to being a bit disoriented by the entire experience.
The moral of the story is, there are cops out there who are not just tolerant of CCWs and their holders, but actively friendly. We need to keep this in mind as part of the larger debate. And if I may say so, being a police officer in my town is no joke. We have one of the highest violent crime rates in the country. Much respect and appreciation to officer B. He is a credit to himself, his department and his profession.
You know there are a lot of us pro2a LEOs out there.
there are a lot of us pro2a LEOs out there.
In New York? In Connecticut? In New Jersey, too?
I’m not a cop. I have several friends that are and all support civilian ccw. I’ve been let off of several traffic offenses because I told the cop I was carrying and produced my permit. In ny they are usual surprised/shocked when u tell them but it generally turns into a conversation about your gun and not about the initial offense. I’m over 50% walking away from an otherwise sure ticket because I carry whenever I wear pants. And there’s the whole self defense benefit……
I’m not a cop. I have several friends that are and all support civilian ccw
So they wouldn’t arrest a guy for felony failure to register or high-cap magazines, etc? For example, it is estimated that only 4% of gun owners complied with CT’s recent assault weapons and hi-cap registration/ban. And less than 1% of NY gun owners complied with the NY SAFE Act.
Supposedly pro-2A cops are arresting people for violations and have threatened to arrest people for violations if they catch them.
I am at 100% walking. . . . 5 out of 5 in last 3 yrs and most of them, I was doing 20 miles over. . . . all were cordial and polite when I informed I was carrying (or that I wasn’t but had a permit). One cop even engaged Mrs Diggler in conversation when he discovered she had a carry permit and went regularly. . . . he wanted to know how to get his GF out to shoot. There are lots of good cops out there, but the random d!ckheads really screw it up for everyone else.
I haven’t been pulled over in at least five years now but, at one point, I had a nine for nine streak for getting out of tickets just by being courteous, presenting the officer my CCW (didn’t have to), and engaging them in a convo about guns and carrying. (I also have pro 2A stickers all over the back of my vehicle). Every cop I talked to acted like they were talking with a like minded individual and let me walk. One of those encounters was even a +15. I’m no friend of police militarization and will always engage them with caution but, by in large, I think most of them are a lot like us. Especially in the area that I live in.
It’s not speeding you have to worry about. If that’s your threshold for “good cop,” good luck with that.
I live in CT and I know a few… I also only know a few cops so that explains my small sample size.
“If that’s your threshold for good cop”
This is TTAG: sadly, “didn’t kill/beat/unlawfully detain me” = “good cop”. Yes, the bar is apparently set that low.
I once told a local LEO that I was carrying. I might as well have told him that I was an expert in quantum physics. He could not have cared less. Which was quite all right with me.
I also had a great conversation a while ago with a uniformed NYC cop who was guarding a bank. We chatted about guns, his guns, my guns, and there was no pushback whatsoever. He never even asked me if I was carrying (I wasn’t) and it was very clear to me that he didn’t care if I was.
So yeah, not every cop is a wingnut. Maybe very few are wingnuts. But it only takes one Officer Harless to mess up your whole day.
That may be the nicest thing you’ve ever said about cops! For what its worth, I’ve met a few lawyers who aren’t wing nuts, either.
With the immigration situation the way it is, I’m not sure we can say that we are a nation of laws.
Glad to hear a pro-cop story on TTAG. I’m not sure if I’m making any sense because I’ve been drinking a lot. Cheers.
@A81, it’s not the first good thing I’ve said about cops. As far as lawyers are concerned, there are plenty of them who are wing nuts, but they rarely kill people, their dogs or toss flash bangs into a baby’s crib.
Yeah, but lawyers become politicians and push $hitty gun and healthcare laws on us.
I can’t speak about the rest of the country, but every cop I’ve interacted with around Seattle/Tacoma who’s been aware of my carry permit has been either indifferent or supportive.
There are a lot of pro-2nd-A cops out there.
@rosignol, “There are a lot of pro-2nd-A cops out there.”
Yes sir. You better believe it and it’s good to hear others on TTAG come forward.
@rosignol–It is always a pleasure to meet a cop who knows that one of the main tools of the arsenal is their own personal discretion and those kind of cops make the encounters are a more enjoyable intentional inconvenience. Never forget though that most cops only see black and white when it comes to We the People, and there is lots of grey for them and theirs. The by the book the Nuremberg ones are the cops who say they are pro second amendment but will have no problem of relieving you of your constitutionally protected weapon by lighting you up like a sunrise if they are ordered to. This latter grouping are the God complex and sociopaths who are the state sanctioned killers that are never policed by the former, because in their ranks criminals deserve pensions not prisons.
Same here… every cop I’ve dealt with has been supportive of concealed carry. Told an off duty cop I know at church last week (can’t remember if he’s King County Sheriff or Corrections) that I carry. His response? “Great! It’s good to know there’s someone else I can rely on if, God forbid, something happens around here. You never know, given everything in the news lately”. This was quickly followed by “What are you carrying? A Sig P239? I have a P229 as a duty weapon. Oh you have one of those too? Those are such great guns. I’m carrying an HK .40 right now though”.
Only time I dealt with a cop around here who was concerned about it was right after I got my CPL at 23 y/o, dealt with a cop who wanted to make sure I got the proper training and shot regularly.
After reading and rereading your comment posted above, I have just one urgent question. How long did it take you to become an expert in quantum physics?
@RF, “The moral of the story is, there are cops out there who are not just tolerant of CCWs and their holders, but actively friendly. We need to keep this in mind as part of the larger debate. And if I may say so, being a police officer in my town is no joke. We have one of the highest violent crime rates in the country. Much respect and appreciation to officer B. He is a credit to himself, his department and his profession.”
Stunning. I bet writing that caused you a major migraine headache. How nice of you to post a pro-cop story. For once.
RF did post the story, to his credit. But he didn’t write it.
True, posted it…again, stunning.
Nah, didn’t cause me a bit of discomfort at all mate.
I currently going through the academy… and I love firearms, like talking to people about them and working on them.. Im a junkie. 2/4 of my instructors are gun nuts and most my scenario trainer are gun nuts.
Never been a cop. But i could never understand the mentality of a person becoming a cop with no interest in firearms other than what the department requires. Of all the equipment a cop carries what is most likely to save his bacon at 1 am as he investigates a hot burglary? His notebook? His radio?
If the gun is so unimportant to these fellows why not immigrate to England where they can be cops and unarmed?
Come to Jersey, the cops hate guns here. I’ve met maybe one or two cops who are gun guys, and the rest seemed like they’d rather not have to carry one. They hate guns and they’re convinced that civilians should not own them either. This, unfortunately, is what the prevailing attitude is in most blue states.
I was also involved in an accident about a month ago. While not required by law to inform the officer I was carrying I gave him my ccw anyway. First thing he said was “cool! Whatcha carrying?” There are good cops out there, even in supposedly anti- 2A Denver county.
Definitely some out there.
I bought an 80% lower off a Saginaw cop(maybe same one) this spring, while on his break. In uniform.
sold it to an Ingham co. Cop on break in uniform this summer.
Good. While most people were busy hopping onto the “omg police militarization” and “omg police are evil” bandwagons, they missed all the good cops that are out there. In our town, the cops are that way: they’d rather see people carrying than not. Even in Arkansas, while visiting my family, I also handed over my CWL, and the cop didn’t even say a word about it, and acted like it made no difference in how he treated me. He was professional and kind.
Moral of the story: don’t stereotype, don’t be biased. Far too many people on the two bandwagons I mentioned are demonstrating their personal bias in this area. Stop being a jerk and take everyone at face value: don’t stereotype people as being evil based on their job, race, or lifestyle. Make your decision based on how each person, case by case, behaves.
Had exactly the same experience with a female Nevada State Trooper a few years back – a really good cop.
Ken, you wouldn’t happen to be a retired firefighter from Jersey City, would you?
From my understanding most cops are pro gun, pro CCW… The only exceptions I have seen are within slave states and in giant cities with tons of gang violence (but their gun control doesn’t appear to be working, so I don’t think very highly of their opinions).
Even behind enemy lines in UPState ny, i have alot of friends and guys i know in LE and every single one is a gun nugt just like me, only difference is their toys are alot cooler then mine, and don;t have to have stupid NYS compliant grips
Nice to hear something like this for a change, Mr. Grabow (that wouldn’t be Dr. Grabow, would it?) 😉 Had one experience with a state trooper, stopped me for a taillight. Per the law, I told him I had a CCL. He seemed to wonder why I told him, but he asked me where the gun was ( it was in the console or some such), and wrote me a warning about the light. I had heard about cops who really went off on folks who didn’t immediately advise them about a CCL, but this one seemed not to care. Like everyone else, there are different kinds out there.
I don’t find this attitude surprising at all. I am in contact with with a lot of police officers both professionally as well as personally. I can tell you from my experience that police officers are overwhelmingly in favor of concealed carry.In fact, to date I have not come across a single officer that was opposed to concealed carry. I even had a high ranking officer in one of the largest departments in Michigan shake my hand and thank me when he learned that I teach concealed carry classes.
I”m in upstate NY and my FFL is a county LEO.
The police chief of the village next to mine organized a CHL class for the local housewives. We need more of that.
The same thing happened in my town….Said nobody from New Jersey, ever.
When my wife and I took a firearm safety course in order to use the county range, the sheriff deputy had a lot of bad things to say about the city of Atlanta cops. Seems like the same complaints we have about police are the same complaints that rural cops have about other forces. He showed this video http://youtu.be/am-Qdx6vky0 of the DEA cop shooting himself in a classroom full of kids and said the only thing that would make that a better video is if the three letters on the back were ATF. My county police are cool as hell.
Many, probably most cops (even in urban centers) are opposed to the sort of gun control that prohibits a law-abiding citizen from having the means to legally defend themselves from criminals outside their home. Carrying a gun to protect one’s self tends to do that.
That said, don’t trust that the police officer who you meet tomorrow will overlook a crime (carrying illegally, for example) because he or she likes guns. The best solution is to stay out of places with laws like that…
I’m as guilty as the next guy (and possibly more so) when it comes to calling out bad cops and police militarization. That said, I love reading stories about the good guys (and gals) in blue. Given how often we come down on cops, I think we should have a “good cop” topic that we can use whenever we have a story like this. First of all, I’d certainly like to read more of these sorts of stories, Secondly, it would make those police officers who frequent TTAG feel less like everyone here is out to get them, and Third, it could help combat anti-cop bias we have developed here.
I don’t trust the legal system. I don’t trust a uniform. I don’t trust a badge. But I can often trust a person representing the legal system by wearing a uniform and a badge.
My problem is that even were I to obtain a concealed carry permit, I spend most of my time on a university campus, so it’d be a moot point and carry would be illegal anyway.
First let me say sorry about the Tigers getting eliminated from the post season. GO KC!
You guys are probably tired of my Detroit experiences but I will add that when I was denied entry to Comerica Park, the screeners suggested I leave my gun with a cop saying that they are very supportive of CPL holders.
The other time at the airport where the ticket agent confiscated my ammo, the cop seemed disappointed in the agent more than with me. The cop was unaware that I was checking a firearm because the ticket agent already had me empty two Glock 19 mags on the counter. The cop was led to believe that my ammo was loose in my luggage. In hindsight, I wish I had left the ammo in the magazines in the hard case until the cop got there so we could both argue with the ticket agent over his wrong interpretation of acceptable storage for airline transportation of small arm ammo.
I believe most cops are on our side. Imagine if they weren’t.
Michael in GA, you seem unaware of many gun laws. You’ll get arrested one day.
And it will be a noble thing I do. Will you support my defense or will you continue to be a sheep?
I will support your defense. I think these anti-gun laws (stadium carry, etc.) are wrong, but I caution you to just be aware of the law. If you understand what you are doing and doing it intentionally, that is one thing, but I got the impression you weren’t familiar with some of the anti-2A laws. Sorry if I misunderstood.
I know there are anti 2nd A laws and I admit that I don’t know every law, in every state, in every county, in every city, in every building. I also admit that I don’t care to look up every law, in every state, in every county, in every city that I am likely to travel to. If lawmakers can tell me without a doubt where and when I will need my gun for self defense, then I will either avoid that place and time, or make sure to have my gun ready. Without that knowledge, I have no choice but to carry everywhere I will not be searched. The only time I ever looked up a gun law is when I wanted to shoot on my own property. I am only concerned with the law when I plan to shoot. Any other use of my firearm is covered by the Constitution. Shall not be infringed is a clear command. Thanks for your support.
The overwhelming majority of cops are pro-2A. In areas of the country where that’s uncommon, they are still overwhelmingly more pro-2A than their local politicians and communities.
Here is a major survey by PoliceOne showing attitudes and opinions of police officers toward various 2A issues.
I laugh when people trot this survey out. Most questions are rather inconsequential to this discussion. E.g., “Do you think gun buy-backs work?” and such. Let’s focus on the pertinent “pro-2A” questions.
“If you were Sheriff or Chief, how would you respond to more restrictive gun laws?”
I suppose we should jump for joy that 62% said that they would not enforce them. Less than 2/3. So much for “the vast majority” of cops being pro-2A. But I very much question even that number. Most cops will tell you that their job is to enforce the law, and if you don’t like it, get the law changed. They are not going to risk their job or pension, so if they are supposed to arrest you for having a “hi cap” magazine or an unregistered AR-15, or you have a banned gun, you’re getting a felony! Do you seriously think that if a cop isn’t willing to not enforce an unjust and probably unconstitutional law, that he will suddenly grow a pair, er, conscious when he makes twice as much money as Chief of Police and has twice as much to lose and can get fired much easier? Seriously?!
Less than half the cops have a very favorable opinion of LEO leaders who publicly refuse to enforce stricter gun laws. That should be 100%! The total figure rises to 70% if you include those who say they are somewhat in favor of that. What a resounding endorsement! /sarc That still means that 30% of cops are against those proclamations.
Only 70% of LEOs are against a national gun registry. Sure it’s a majority, but to my mind it should be near 100%. Gun registries are only good for gun restrictions (see CT, NY, NJ). You get letters saying sell your guns or turn them in for destruction.
Only 31% of LEOs support open carry. We’ve seen this in Michigan where we’ve actually had cops tell an OCer to potentially break the law (CC without a CC license) because he did not like open carry. And of course OCers are still occasionally subjected to a felony stop which results in lawsuits against the PD in which the PD always loses.
Almost 10% of cops DO NOT want citizens to have the legal right to carry a firearm for protection, not even concealed! Why are there ANY cops who want defenseless citizens? Don’t cops know about crime? Or do they just not care as long as THEY have a gun?
As a follow-up to my own post, before this survey there was other PoliceOne.com data that indicated that a majority of police favored citizens being able to own guns in the home, but the percentage fell precipitously when those same cops were asked if they thought people should be able to carry guns outside of the home for protection.
I agree with you and on top of that if 100 percent of LE were to behave like this in this scenario (I know from experience some do and some do not) it would not in any way change anything related to militarization, overuse of SWAT/no-knocks or immunity double standards.
Danny, it sounds as if you were describing NJ cops, but gave them too much credit. I remember talking to two local cops about the looming magazine capacity restriction from 15 rds down to 10 after it was passed by the NJ legislature and went to Christie’s desk to be signed. I explained that if passed, this law would only affect the law abiding citizens, and they agreed. I then posed a question, by asking them if such law should even be enforced, and whether they’d walk door to door checking magazines and arresting people? They pretty much shrugged and didn’t say anything. It was obvious that if their orders were to arrest anybody who does not comply, they would, even if they didn’t want to or didn’t agree with the law. And I don’t think those were bad cops or anything like that, but they were not going to risk being fired for disobeying an order.
Nice story. Nice lesson. The PO was cool. But you did your part too. I’ve seen way too many confrontational aholes challenge cops on Constitutional and procedural issues. Sounds like you treated him properly, and he did the same. Good job.
I am skeptic when it comes to encounters with police based on past experiences which gives me a cautious present perspective on them, even though i was always polite up until they would try to assert their badge granted dominance routine, which I don’t consent to. I am on condition zero until I make the threat assessment evaluation of the encounter at hand and I only relax when I am comfortable to recognize a man standing before me and not a state sanctioned thug. Anyways I met one of the few good men who happened to be off duty and browsing at my LGS. I noticed a man looking at me intently while I was getting some pistol ammo and I know he was trying to read the grips on my 1911 which is christian orientated. I asked what the pistol was in his front left pocket and he was shocked that I knew he was carrying then the real conversation started. The good cop had the new glock .380 so as a Glock for a back up gun kinda guy I am showed him my Glock 30. He started talking about being in the 94 percentile for his qualifying so I knew he was a shooter like myself. He asked me why I carry a .45 for a back up to my other .45 so I said firstly both guns functioning on the same ammo is nice in non-hollywood shootouts. Secondly because if someone came in here with armor on intent on harming innocents all he was going to be with his .380 is be a distraction, while I engage and every shot breaks ribs or knocks them off balance until I cause flaccid paralysis on the evil scumbag. Finally the good cop pointed to my 1911 and said that is a nice primary weapon and without missing a beat I pointed to my head and said this is my primary weapon. He chuckled and then he had an aha moment, and bought the tried and true ammo I suggested for his dad to use in case of feral thugs.
I am skeptic when it comes to encounters with police based on past experiences which gives me a cautious present perspective on them
As you should be. I could post a hundred examples from just September, probably, but here’s a couple from the last few days:
Traffic Stop Video Epitomizes Everything that is Wrong With Police Today: http://thefreethoughtproject.com/traffic-stop-video-epitomizes-wrong-police-today/
Cops Seize Car When Told to Get a Warrant, Tell Owner That’s What He Gets for “Exercising His Rights”: http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cops-seize-car-told-warrant-owner-exercising-rights/
And of course, you’ve got police departments being disbanded because of corruption, mismanagement, and citizen abuse.
The Lincoln Heights, OH PD was just shut down because their insurer dropped the coverage claiming that they could not keep up with the cost of all the lawsuits due to their corruption, mismanagement, and citizen abuse. WCPO 9 Cincinnati conducted one of the most eye-opening investigations into police corruption this year: the hiring of convicted criminals to under-the-table payouts to ridiculous promotions of negligent cops.
Some of the PDs in Florida have been disbanded. The entire police force of Hampton was fired a few months ago, and just a couple of days ago the city of Waldo disbanded their entire police force. A few weeks ago their police chief and interim chief both resigned because of state investigations into them and their department.
You’ve got the state boys and the FBI doing investigations of PDs all over the country. And sometimes even the DOJ gets involved.
And God-forbid you are a black person. Several cops were just fired in Florida for being KKK members in the same department where another cop was fired for being a KKK member a few years ago. And in another department in West Virginia a cop was just suspended because he had videos of his little girl dressed in police garb dancing to the KKK anthem. He also interviewed her using racial slurs, etc.
So, yeah, I wouldn’t blindly trust cops.
Here’s a couple of billboards AAA pays for to warn motorists outside of Waldo, FL:
Striped hat? Striped shirt? Was all the rage for a while? Ring any bells?
But, but, but… you’re being anti-police with all of your pesky facts!
orientated? cool story, bro.
Our local police chief is actually the one who taught our CHL class. I guarantee you that he is as Pro2A as they come.
I was just at the great state fair of Texas over the weekend and had a great experience with one of the officers there. If you did not know, you can conceal carry at the fair if you have a valid CHL. The officer I had to show my concealed carry licence to was very cordial and seemed impressed that I was carrying. We had a little chit chat about the small town I live in and then told me to have a great day after verifying my credentials. Now the rent a cop security people with the metal detector wands were not so no nice. They seemed put off by having to escort me to the officer for a licence check.
Now I did have to leave my Kershaw at home since knives are not allowed, but my 9 is. Go figure.
“after verifying my credentials” = disarming you like a serf, then deciding when you may have your property back and be on your way.
In Illinois, when they run your DL number, it let’s them know you have a CCW permit as well. Is it like that for other states?
I’m retired military, with a significant number of relatives in law enforcement. From discussions, I’d estimate that both the military and law enforcement, in the main ranks and junior officer equivalents, have on the same order of good guys as the other — and that a similar situation applies for the percentage of dirtbags.
There are, of course, good LEO’s out there, who are both pro-RKBA and pro-CCW.
The trouble is, we in the public don’t get to interview which LEO stops us before we get stopped. We get the luck of the draw.
This is true. But these two data points only show that you should treat an encounter with a police officer with both possible outcomes in mind. Get your recorder going, and be polite.
Cops in South Florida are diverse in their reaction as far as my experiences have shown. About 2 years ago I am walking down the street with my adult nephew, both of us carrying concealed, when we are approached by a PO in his patrol car who shows us a BOLO report with a photo and asks us if we have seen such person. Florida regulations require advising law enforcement if packing, which we did (uncomfortably since with our uncovered multiple tattoos and my nephew’s dreadlocks at the time we looked more like street hoods than law abiding concealed carriers). The cop pointed out the fact that I was wearing a Spike’s Tactical ™ t-shirt which told him I was a POTG. He did not ask for our licenses, but we had a little chat as to the ranges and gun stores that we used, he thanked us and went on his way. My nephew looked at me dumbfounded and asked if that pleasant exchange had just happened, as in this city cops often times can be-let us say not too nice. Next experience-about 10 months ago I need a ride to work, my stepson takes his mom’s car and off we go. As luck would have it, running late we get pulled over for a faulty tail light. I reach for my driver’s license and my carry permit and when the cop approaches the car, I advise him that I am carrying, he looks at me and stuns me by saying something along the lines of “I am talking to the driver not you”…..needless to say I am taken aback. He ticketed Steven for the light and not once engaged me again during the remainder of the stop. Two different cops, same city, go figure.
Florida regulations require advising law enforcement if packing, which we did
No, they don’t. I’ll wait while you try to cite the nonexistent law.
when the cop approaches the car, I advise him that I am carrying, he looks at me and stuns me by saying something along the lines of “I am talking to the driver not you”
Again, why are you flapping your yap? No duty to inform. Just STFU.
Here in Central IL, I honestly can’t recall meeting any anti-gun police. My dad was a cop and I think he could safely be called an enthusiast. I think I’d say the same about most of his co-workers that I was familiar with.
On a personal note, I may be considering one last opportunity in policing before too long. I stopped looking at public sector opportunities a few years back due to my strong opposition to the drug war, militarization and issues involving public protest. But then I started thinking, “hey, policing is too important to be left to the petty authoritarians and Robocops!” If I decide to give it another go, I assure you that I am 2A friendly and I consider armed citizens to be an asset, not a threat.
Robert Peel (w/ Richard Mayne and Charles Rowan) wrote, “…the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence” (“Peel’s Principles of Policing,” quoted in “Arrested Development” by David Couper). In my opinion, a community (or a police department) that embraces armed citizens instead of demonizing them shows that it understands this important principle.
Here in Central IL, I honestly can’t recall meeting any anti-gun police.
Great! So does that mean that the cops who caught ordinary, (mostly) law-abiding citizens carrying guns for their own personal self-defense congratulated them rather than arresting them since Illinois didn’t widely issue concealed carry licenses?
Probably not. But its amazing how much you DON’T find when you AREN’T looking. It’s called officer discretion. Discretion, incidentally, could also be used to cool down the drug war. Imagine no more “consent searches,” it’s easy if you try!
I am not in frequent contact with cops by any means, but the few cops I met and had a chance to talk about guns were avidly pro-CCW. Of course, that is in a country where you need a license first in order to get a firearm (or to carry it). Also, we are not required to inform the cops about being armed in the Czech Republic.
I’m grateful any time human beings can treat each other well and everyone walks away unharmed. I’m glad some “cops” have not sunk into total depravity, of course. Using common courtesy as a default approach is excellent, but all too many people seem to think that involves subservient behavior when a cop is involved.
The thing is, as mentioned above, nobody gets to choose the type of “cop” who approaches them. By the time you understand whether you face a good guy or a rogue monster, it’s too late to do much about it.
And then, I suspect there are very few “law enforcement” employees who would let their love of guns, or even appreciation for mundanes who carry, influence their decision to arrest people for any of the thousands of “prohibition” stupidities now on the “books.” That is their job, after all.
And anyone who thinks being the “wrong” color, religion or nationality doesn’t matter, is not paying attention. And that “wrong” designation is also part of their “discretion.” The most racist “cop” I ever encountered was a black man in Los Angeles. I felt very fortunate to leave the scene alive.
CPL instead of CWL, because apparently effective non-firearm concealed weapons, like a nice collapsible baton or automatic knife, are abhorrent.
Our local Police (in southeastern PA) are the same way…
Which I guess is why I get a little defensive sometimes (as some of you probably know).
For the record: I too am against police militarization (hasn’t occurred here locally yet) and am opposed to police immunity in many cases.
Anyway, thanks for the post guys. Seriously. Thank you.
Seriously? Philadelphia PD are some of the biggest 2A violators in the United States.
I’m not in Philly, Danny. So those aren’t my local Cops. The suburbs can get pretty rural out here, and are a whole different world than the City. But your point is spot on. And in fact, I’ve done several rants on just this… This whole elitist, anti-2A thing, as I see it, is 90% coming from Cities. It’s essentially the Cities vs the Suburbs and Rural areas. That is why el Mayor Blumberg keenly recently mis-named his group “Every town”, to try to distract from the fact that it’s really Big Cities vs every town.
A little anecdote: When I was issued my CCP by the Sheriff’s Deputy, he took a minute to explain ‘look, this permit does technically apply to Philly, but that won’t stop the city cops from giving you a REAL hard time if they pull you over and you have a gun on you, so we recommend you do not carry in the city limits’.
Out here, it’s almost the exact opposite. I shoot at a range with many cops, who are my shooting buddies. My closest friend/fellow collector is an ex cop from this area. They’re just like us. In fact, they are us. Which is why I tend get a little defensive when ALL cops are painted with the same brush. They are as different as we are. They are no worse or better than us. Its just that they have more power/authority than a regular citizen, so can cause real damage if they are of the bad sort.
… a couple of supporting points:
* To only highlight instances of police misconduct and somehow subconsciously imply ‘that is how most or all police are’ would be the same as the Anti’s only highlighting IGOTD’s and murderer/spree killers to subconsciously imply ‘that is how most or all gun owners are’.
Neither ‘view’ would show how the vast majority of firearm owners are responsible, non-idiot, lawful citizens who follow the rules of firearm safety, nor how in the vast majority of contacts with the police, no misconduct occurs.
* To the point about Cities – If you look at the counties in NY that opposed vs supported the so-called ‘Safe Act’, almost every single county besides ‘NYC county’ opposed the ‘Safe Act’, yet the Big City elitists were able to impose their BS on the rest of the state. Once again, Big Cities vs the rest of us.
I am neither pro-cop nor anti-cop. I don’t feel I have to choose. I am pro-good cop and anti-bad cop just as I am pro-good firearm owning citizen vs anti-bad firearm owning citizen. I am 100% pro 2A and I will admit that I am 100% anti-City. So much so I’ve searched for a term for my condition, but could not find one lol. I find big Cities to be filthy cesspools of moral depravity and ambivalence towards personal responsibility and civil liberty. Like too many sheep all herded together, willing to abdicate their own freedoms for the greater conformity… Extreme poverty contrasted by the elitism of 6-dollar latte-sipping neuvo-liberals, arrogantly thinking that everyone should behave as they do, because that would make them ‘feel’ better’ and anyone else who thinks differently than them are just ‘behind in the times’ as much as someone still using an iPhone4.
But hey, that’s just my view 😉 to each his own.
Yeah, well Philadelphia is the grease trap of PA. I try not to go into the city when I visit PA. From my experience, cops in the surrounding areas are a bit more sane, although my experience with the Chester County Sheriffs department was mixed to say the least.
As a former military police officer, I always got a good laugh out of the “are you guys really prepping/planning for civilian disarmament” questions from members of my church and friends.
If you do not know any soldiers, especially Guard and Reserve, then let me explain. Compared to the rest of population, they are certifiable gun nuts. One of the biggest perks of National Guard service is shooting rifles, machine guns, and grenade launchers every year. No, these men and women are not going to surrender thier personal weapons and they are not going to participate in seizing others’ weapons.
Some may gripe and protest, but if ordered to do so, they will. Self preservation.
Depends. I had quite a few NCOs in my previous Reserve unit (some of whom were actual cops for their regular job) publicly tell their soldiers they would not follow any order that involves search and seizures of firearms that would violate the 2A. Though to be fair, we probable wouldn’t be responsible for that if the situation came up, being an intel unit and all.
it’s encouraging to read these positives. aside from the plethora of individual character makeups present in any occupation, i’ll say something i have no way to back up and that is that there may be a strong bent towards individuals with authoritarian issues applying for law enforcement jobs. so approach with some respect and lessen confrontation.
i rub elbows with many city and highway police in a local establishment named for a duty cop who was paralyzed during a domestic shooting. there is a lot of positive feedback in regards to civilian carry.
i know folks who basically will say “cops is cops” and that’s that. some are motivated by power- there’s all kinds of jagoffs in the world. saying hello to these folks on a “what’s up” basis can establish that we’re both making a living first and just trying to get by.
There was a time that I would have been shocked about that in Saginaw (if that is where it happened, basing this on the image), but given how things have been going there in the last decade I am actually not surprised.
That is where it happened, and yeah, we have to take care of ourselves around these parts. I think most of the cops know that.
One detail missing from the story: did he disarm you “for his safety” during the encounter?
Not at all. Didn’t even ask where it was located. And I didn’t volunteer that information.
Glad to hear it. I (wrongly, admittedly) assumed that I was going to hear that he did.
Took my first CPL class at Wyandotte, MI’s police station, taught by two different officers, both former special forces. Michigan seems to have a pretty good view on non-leo carry. Several officers have been more than willing to discuss weapons during general encounters. My CPL got me out of a seatbelt ticket once as well. Like anything else, most cops are good guys.
Nice to see 2A rights respected. In New Jersey you would have been tazed and tossed in the back of the car.