Wayne LaPierre appeared on CBS’ Face the Nation to face questions on the gun rights group’s stance on bump fire stocks. (Video after the jump, click here for a full transcript.) The NRA Veep went all in on the “the ATF should regulate the controversial AR mod so that Diane Feinstein’s bump fire ban bill bombs” line. He blamed the Obama administration for legalizing bump fire stocks, and then got all warm and fuzzy about semi-automatics. . .
The fact is that the Obama administration a couple years ago legalized a device, their A.T.F., that fuzzed the line between semi-automatics and fully automatics. And if we’re able to fuzz that line, all semi-automatics are at risk . . . If you fuzz the line, they’re all at risk. And we’re not going to let that happen.
If I may interject here . . .
In 2010, the ATF made an entirely sensible ruling. They recognized the fact that the bump fire stock contained no moving pieces. It was, therefore, nothing more than a firearm part. Legal for sale.
How, then, were they wrong then, and how, now, are they going to reverse that ruling? And if the NRA says the ATF was wrong and cedes them the power to reverse the decision, what’s the NRA going to do when the ATF regulates some other part of an AR that the Bureau deems too “lethal” for sale?
OK, so, more fuzz . . .
JOHN DICKERSON: Stepping back, is the N.R.A. position that you’re okay with the current restrictions against fully automatic?
WAYNE LAPIERRE: We have supported the existing law on fully automatic firearms. And what we don’t want is we don’t want the line to be fuzzed. Because if you fuzz the line, you’re putting every semiautomatic firearm for years. And I have corrected Diane Feinstein over, and over, and over when she says, “Assault weapons, they’re fully automatic guns.” I said they’re not. But if somebody fuzzes the line, you’re putting every semiautomatic firearm at risk.
JOHN DICKERSON: But to be fair to Senator Feinstein, she didn’t fuzz the line in the conversation we just had.
She, was actually, perhaps because over the years you have come out on the winning end of these arguments, said that this only deals with this one specific bump fire stock. So in this case the line is not being fuzzed.
WAYNE LAPIERRE: Well, I mean, the fact is the bump stock does fuzz the line though. And that’s why A.T.F. needs to do its job. But we really need to get back. I mean, if we’re going to do something, let’s do something meaningful. I mean, the outrage they’re trying to stir against the N.R.A. they ought to be stirring against the mental health system, which has completely collapsed.
Mr. LaPierre also attempted to deflect away from the bump fire imbroglio with the same Hollywood finger-pointing he unleashed in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook slaughter.
You want to talk about irresponsible use of firearms?
The number one person teaching irresponsible use of firearms is all these elites’ employer, the Hollywood, television, gaming industry. We spend millions teaching responsible use of firearms. They make billions every single day, John, teaching irresponsible use of firearms. They’re so hypocritical it’s unbelievable.
Yes, well, Hollywood is doing a great deal for the promotion of armed self-defense, and why tell gamers to “get off my lawn”? Videogames are an extremely important, not-to-say mission-critical funnel for new shooters (gun culture 2.0).
Anyway, more than a few members of TTAG’s Armed Intelligentsia think the NRA is playing this bumpfire brouhaha perfectly — walking the line between “we need to get rid of this evil device” and “we don’t need no stinking gun control laws.”
As a Second Amendment absolutist, I’m absolutely disgusted that the NRA has emboldened the rotten-to-the-core ATF and conceded on both the NFA in general, and machine guns in particular. You?
god how long do we have till this fudd finally dies, or leaves his position. The worst part is that Feinstein’s actually right in regards to the ATF’s sway in all this, and La Pierre seems to want them to forget what the law actually says and just bury bumpfire stocks under a completely faulty judgement. It’s somewhat amazing.
Nobody on the political Left and Right has the balls to ask….
Would Chicago be safer with more gun control laws or more fathers?
Everybody keeps asking what has changed in the last 50 years and all you have to look at is the illegitimacy rates and the decline in religious attendance. Both of those things are supported/created by the Left .
It’s even very possible that the Paddock POS had daddy anger issues.
Talking about the importance fathers is like showing a cross to a vampire. The three L’s Libertarians, Liberals and the Left will never “stand” for it. They like intimate government interference in families lives. They don’t like the voluntary association with church support groups.
Except that it’s Libertarians that are, in fact, making all of those same arguments, too.
Stop spreading lies.
Libertarians whole political premise is small government. Some in fact want it so small that they’re anarcho-capitalists. So I really don’t understand your issue with the Libertarian party.
DeunkEODguy, Chris T in KY doesn’t understand Libertarians so they scare him. I’m sure he’d like to see them banned, just like a leftie would.
Did you look at all the comments and decide at random to reply to mine? Cause it seems like you did.
Sorry Wayne, you need a new job, maybe lobby for mom’s demand things.
What a complete peice of garbage! I’ve been saying it for YEARS, the NRA doesn’t care about our gun rights or the second amendment, just revenue!
The worst part is that the less informed public thinks that these FUDDS speak for ALL firearm owners, and the certainly DO NOT! Sickening! There is no defending the NRA on this one without crapping on the Second amendment.
People need to start calling and QUITTING! Make them remove you from their roster. Scumbags..
Two things turned me away from the NRA (this one is #3):
1. The whole business with NICS
2. When I was a member they sent me more literature in a year trying to get me to send them more money than the money I paid in dues. That just seemed wrong, AND got really annoying.
At least SPAM emails you can flag and delete. When all that trash keeps showing up in your mailbox you have to deal with it physically every time.
Funny. These guys said they’d fight the Hughes amendment. That’s the only reason that Reagan signed FOPA.
They’re either liars of the highest degree, or they’re protecting their own interests/ interests of their high output donors. Either way it has always been NRA first. After all, how would they make money if they actually got us our gun rights back?
The NRA supported The National Firearms Act of 1934
The NRA supported The Federal Firearms Act of 1938
The NRA supported The Gun Control Act of 1968
And the NRA let the Hughes Amendment of 1986 to the GCA slide without a fight.
The NRA is not to be trusted. The leadership of the NRA still has ties to the Council on Foreign Relations, which is a globalist organization seeking totalitarian world government.
The NRA only pays lip service to liberty, they do not stand in support of it.
The NRA is the best funded gun control organization in the world.
Funny how people are only now realizing this.
References to the NRA supporting the NFA, FFA, and GCA are flat out wrong. Those acts occurred before the modern NRA came into existence on May 22, 1977 in Cincinnati.
For its first 106 years, the NRA was exclusively a marksmanship training and promotion organization closely affiliated with governments at all levels – nothing else. It was founded in New York by former Union Army officers William Church and George Wingate to “promote and encourage rifle shooting on a scientific basis”. This was fully in accordance with its then membership’s wishes. Its membership in this era was predominately military and law enforcement, not private gun owners. The law enforcement wing of the then NRA strongly supported NFA, FFA and GCA, while the rest of its membership was indifferent at best.
The NRA had no lobbying arm until the ILA was established in 1975. A Legislative Affairs Division – 3 people – was created in 1934 after the NFA passed, but did not lobby and mostly concerned itself with distributing summaries of restrictions affecting the transportation of firearms to matches.
This all changed in Cincinnati 40 years ago after a titanic struggle. The NRA was repurposed as a gun lobby because no other suitable vehicle was available. The price paid was terrible. The NRA Law Enforcement Division collapsed and the U.S. military generally withdrew its support from the NRA. The NRA had to completely recreate itself at great expense.
The 2017 NRA is not responsible for the actions of the 1934, 1938, or 1968 NRA. It is an entirely different organization, although it still conducts more marksmanship and firearms training than any other organization in the world.
The NRA never proposed or endorsed the NFA, FFA, or GCA. At worst, you can say they acquiesced. They did, however, have some beneficial effect at the margin. Have you ever wondered why the NFA applies a $ 200 transfer tax to SBS’s and SBR’s? These are indistinguishable from handguns, which were not taxed in the final NFA. The NRA did manage to have conventional handguns dropped from the Act. Treasury Secretary Woodin’s draft version of the Act required a $ 100 transfer tax on all handguns. The FFA, as originally drafted by Michigan’s U.S. Senator Vandenberg, was mostly a second attempt at national pistol registration. The NRA and the long defunct National Pistol Association got that dropped. These changes were achieved in a spirit of collegiality, not confrontation. You don’t get far in the American political system unless you are confrontational.
The spirit of collegiality collapsed during the GCA fight during 1968, but the NRA still had few legislative weapons at their disposal. The NRA had never endorsed or opposed a political candidate, nor had they ever made a political contribution before 1970. All they could really do is inform their membership through the [I]American Rifleman[/I]. Even so, they were relentlessly attacked by Senators Dodd and Tydings. In a perverse fashion, we have Tom Dodd and Joe Tydings to thank for the modern NRA.
The NRA considered itself a civic association prior to 1977. Civic associations go with the flow, they don’t make waves.
You now have a confrontational NRA. Their recent history is impressive: the 2013 assault rifle frenzy and the 2015 M855 ammunition ruling. They did this with a membership that has never exceeded 1.5% of the American population.
There are limits to what the NRA can accomplish, however, when you have 58 dead in Nevada.
Oh, hey Mr LaPierre! I’m surprised to see you here.
@publius: If you choose to read Bearing Arms post referenced, you will see that the author’s only evidence for the false allegations are a series of misstatements by Mr. LaPierre. Mr. LaPierre only joined the NRA in 1977 and is many thing, but not a historian.
@publius: If you choose to read the Bearing Arms post referenced, you will see that the author’s only evidence for the false allegations are a series of misstatements by Mr. LaPierre. Mr. LaPierre only joined the NRA in 1977 and is many things, but not a historian.
You clearly didn’t read the linked article. Try again.
That article refers to and republished an article from “The American Rifleman,” the NRA’s own publication, from March 1968. The 1968 article outlines the NRA’s support for gun control legislation. It is in fact the NRA leadership’s support for such laws that motivated the dues paying members to change the organization in the 1970s. The NRA has since then been expressly forbidden from engaging in lobbying. The NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action is the ONLY part of the NRA that may engage in lobbying and it is supposed to be dependent on donations specifically for that and not members dues.
What’s your excuse for post 1977 infringements like the Hughes? LEOPA (actually wrote that one)? Undetectable Firearms Act (may have written this one too)? Its renewals? The various duty to inform clauses in concealed carry legislation? Endorsing McCain in 2016 over a gun rights champion with a long list of legislative victories?
I’ve read the congressional hearing on NFA 34 and nothing I recall the NRA representatives saying could be construed as supporting NFA…
I’d read the source material versus a link from someone.
ALL the NRA had to do was emulate Newtown. Line in the sand. Immovable…if 20 little kids dying doesn’t do it why the hell would country music fans dying do it?!?
Actually, LaPierre stuck his foot in his mouth over sandy hook as well, the morning after running his mouth about “universal background checks” in a positive light until he was quickly called out on it. He’s a weasel…in the truest sense of the word. I think someone here the other day called it being a Paltroon….Wayne “Paltroon” LaPierre. Has a ring to it….
(In your defense, it’s a bit of an anachronism these days.)
He is backed like a weasel…
You never win a war (though you may end it) by preemptively surrendering. Simply giving in to the other side emboldens them and makes all of your other positions seem weak. A bump-stock is not an automatic weapon…the same effect can achieved with a rubber band for chrissake! This is a huge strategic mis-step that demoralizes the membership (since it’s obvious that it’s bound to fail) and concedes a large part of the battle field to the enemy. I just don’t think Wayne really knows what he is doing here.
Serious question. How many of you are associated with NAGR?
Are you refering to the National Association for Gun Rights, I assume? Not nearly as many as should be. National Shooting Sports Foundation and the Gun Owners of America could all use the money people WASTE on the NRA to try and do us gun owners some actual good…not just lip service and pissing in our faces and trying to sell us an “official” nra umbrella with our membership renewal.
The LAST thing the national pro-gun movement needs is a fracturing.
I’m in CA. I see it regularly where the local groups and state-level proxies of national organizations turn their noses up at each other.
Do I need to remind everyone what that has gained CA gun owners?
Wayne started it!
I’ve heard it said that the first thing one should do when they find themselves in a hole…
Someone may need to send that memo to the NRA… they seem to have missed it before. They look so stupid peering out from the edge of the hole and soon will sink completely under. Loss of credibility is not something reversed soon… and sometimes never.
Just sent it to them. Who knows maybe they will listen.
The emperor has no clothes.
And, I think he ate his own balls.
Hard to defend bump fire stocks on TV, BUT his job is to do just that. Argue their legal, first time they have ever been used in a crime, argue broader 2nd amendment rights are at play, argue he was crazy evil, BUT make the argument! How do we start the “dump Wayne campaign”?
WAYNE LAPIERRE: We have supported the existing law on fully automatic firearms.
Pardon my French. Fuck you Wayne.
Not my NRA.
I’ve been a member for 20+ years. Membership dues are due the end of this month. That’s not going to happen now. NAGR has a no compromise stance. I know where my money is going now. We also decided as of last night to remove all NRA info from our shop and will be happy to explain why to all new gun buyers who ask.
If you are thinking about throwing your support NAGR’s way you need to do some serious looking into that organization. SAF had some interesting things to say about them you should hear. NAGR is barely more than a fundraising scam.
And SAF isn’t? That’s rich. Remember that Gottlieb and the SAF gobbled up JPFO for their mailing list, and sent the whole organization into the black hole after Aaron died… And there have been others. I won’t send my money to any of those blood suckers. Suggest everyone stick to their own most local organization, if you’ve got to belong to something.
Pretty sure JPFO wasn’t much more than a mailing list in the years before the SAF take over, anyway. All the gun rights groups are fundraisers, look at the results they produce to judge their scam status. SAF gets results in the courts and their bang per buck is high.
You want no compromise, go GOA.
And SAF supported a ban on the private sale of guns AND national registration, not once…but twice. I stopped donating to them after the second time.
This guy needs to go. The NRA Board of Directors need to remove him ASAP! Wayne has betrayed us all!
Seems like the Trojan horse the pervious administration planted worked out on divide and conquer over the gun owner’s community.
I like the way you think.
So… when a democrat is president again one day, and they get the ATF to regulate away green tip 5.56… what is the NRA going to do? This will come back to haunt them, and all of us, big time. Absolute stupidity NRA. You’re not being clever or sneaky. You’re meddling with forces you can’t possibly comprehend.
The NRA has a firm stance allowing green-tip ammo.
And now that their spokesman is saying that one of the most corrupt government agencies around should rewrite federal law by reversing a decision from years ago, that means… what exactly? They’ve just proven they’ll backpedal just as hard on M855 or any other steel core milsurp rifle ammo the next time anyone so much as thinks about banning it.
It’s divide and conquer. Your guys are being played!
I’d kinda like to nut kick him out of the NRA.
Wayne needs to get out of his 1965 time warp and stop listening to the FUDD faction of the NRA. This is 2017 Wayne! Wake the f&@k up! We don’t want any restrictions on any type of firearm or accessory! None, nada, zilch! The statements he made on this alone should be enough for membership to call for his resignation. Either that or we all dump the NRA and join an organization that actually represents 2A interests. The next NRA top dog needs to be a 2A absolutist. No more of this, I support shotguns, but bump stocks are icky because you can’t dove hunt with them.
Wayne LaPierre should change his name to Judas Iscariot or Benedict Arnold. Either one would be more fitting.
For those of us who are members, I imagine that the best thing to do would be to form a block in the NRA and represent ourselves better as a block.
Celebrate the 40th anniversary of the 1977 Cincinnati meeting with a reenactment?
Sounds like a good idea, but how can that idea be turned into a plan?
I miss Harlon Carter and Neal Knox.
Count me in. This soft and yielding NRA is not the organization representing my stance. No More Gun Control!
I want my cake back!
…Wayne needs to get out of his 1965 time warp and stop listening to the FUDD faction of the NRA….”
There are many factions in the NRA, including pure wood rifle hunters who have no use for EBR types.
How to persuade them to accept other types of shooters has been an issue for a long time.
One cross-over of late has been hog hunters using EBRs and surplus 7.62
I have no issue with wood stock bolt action purists or shotgun only gun folk…..as long as they don’t FUDD out and support ALL gun rights, not just their particular hobby/love within the gun community. I would never buy a slide fire stock as I think they serve no useful purpose for me personally. However, I’m vehemently opposed to any restrictions on them because I support the 2A and support anyone who wants to own one. This really isn’t difficult so I’m not sure why so many pro gun folk have trouble within our own camp. Sometimes I think we are our own worst enemy.
How is the bump stock any different than a lightning link?
A lightning link only requires one pull of the trigger to shoot multiple rounds due to how it interferes with the trigger mechanism internally. I believe it doesn’t allow the trigger to reset fully so if you keep your finger on the trigger it will keep chambering and firing a round until you stop squeezing the trigger. They are considered NFA items and subject to the $200 tax stamp just like suppressors and machine guns. Go look up how much a registered lightning link is and you will understand why there aren’t a bunch of them out there. They typically go for $15K or higher. A bump fire stock “simulates” full auto fire but you are still pulling the trigger for each round out of the barrel, albeit very quickly and more quickly.
I am not NRA member, however I feel Wayne’s doing a pretty good job on this, I might re-enlist in the NRA, now that I think about it, they might be government spy organization, but what the hell. ….. . Yup IMO, semi’s are next,. .. whow the price of SMLE’s is going to sky rocket.. uh nother thought, a.device that automatically lifts the bolt and cycles a round, ban bolt actions, break opens, revolving cylinders, and now we got good old muskets, I forgot to tell you, when the bolt action ban passed so did the rifled barrel ban. . Thank-you Mr Paddock.
2ASux…is that you?
So, it’s the ATF’s job to take a look at everything that’s become commonly available since 1934, decide which of them the Dems would have wanted to tax out of existence in 1934 if only they’d existed then, and pretend that the FDR Dems really did include them in the NFA?
Wayne, I think it’s your job to go to one of those Grand Canyon tour outfits and suck start all their burros.
Seriously, Wayne, why don’t you go stick some donkey penises in your mouth to stop stupid words from falling out of it?
If anybody from NRA HQ is reading this, please show my comment to EVP LaPierre.
It’s a crying shame that Harlon Carter won’t be seeing Wayne LaPierre in the afterlife, because I’m pretty sure Harlon wants to kick his ass. Wayne will just have to settle for an after action review from Satan.
I personally think the NRA is treading lightly (and looking like a swinging door) because so much is on the line with the SHARE ACT. They give in a little so they can win a lot. If they fight every small battle (bump fire) then they may lose the bigger more important battle due to bad press. Too much bad press about guns or parts for guns is bad for the Share Act. It makes those on the left that may be in favor of the Share Act want to change their mind. I think the NRA is playing the long game.
1. Changing the laws in a nation of 330 million people because one deranged (and now dead) man wanted to force some change is beyond stupid.
2. The SHARE Act has nothing to do with the mass murder in Las Vegas, and it’s time we stood up and said that out loud: This has nothing to do with the SHARE Act, and Congress should get back to the business of passing or rejecting legislation that was already in the works, including the SHARE Act.
The SHARE Act and National Reciprocity have already been pulled from being voted on so you can forget about any of that happening.
We either keep the bumpfire stocks or lose more of our rights regardless of what you think of their utility. Infringement is infringement.
I’d rather keep them than give them up for NOTHING!!
If it was a Destructive Device requiring all the dog pony show, the paperwork and $200 stamp just like a full auto, or any other, Destructive Device, this might not have happened.
If he had to get the 6 week paperwork before anytime he tried to buy one the FEDS might have caught on that he was bat shit crazy and STOPPED HIM.
If he had to go through the Destructive Device papers to get the Bump Fire Device, the feds might have caught on to him and stopped it.
This in turn might have kept a bat shit crazy liberal from harming anyone.
To many bat shit crazy liberals are planing and mass killing people at our expense, and you want to help them.
They wont ban bat shit crazy liberals, too many, but why not make just as hard enough, to slow one or more mass shooters down.
Bull FING sh_t.
The turd passed all of the FBI NICS checks. WTF do you think the ATF uses for 4473 approvals ???
If you had purchased a class 3 dealer file for a DD or full-auto weapon, paid the 200 stamp, waited the ~1.4 x 10 to the 8th power # of bullshit years for the return of a tax stamp, went back to the FFL and took possession of the device. Then immediately called the ATF and told them you were going to go to the local office (or their D.C. offices) and USE THE DEVICE ON THEM, you’d likely be able to get it done before they could even mount a response to stop you.
THEY DON’T PROTECT YOU FROM SH_T. IT’S A FING HONOR SYSTEM ! The only thing keeping you from being harmed by a ‘regulated’ weapon / device / wtf-haveyou IS THE LACK OF AN IMMEDIATE DESIRE, ON THE PART OF THE POSSESSOR, OF WANTING TO DO YOU HARM. That is it.
WIK, “if…if…if…if…might…might…might.” Nice try. Go directly to jail. Do not pass Go! and do not collect $200.
If “ifs” and “buts” were candy and nuts, we’d all have a merry Christmas.
You don’t know much. Too many “mights”.
The asshole could have get heavy belt fed machine gun with his money and clean background. With some 30-06 belts he would do much worse damage than spraying intermediate cartridges all over the place out of unstable rifle.
Where did bump fire stock, trigger cranks and all the rest of the “full auto simulators” come from? The Hughes Amendment!! Before that, if you wanted a full auto, you sent your 200 bucks to the BATF, they sent you an approval, and you got or made your machine gun. This all worked great for decades (1934 to 1986), with almost no criminal use of registered guns. Everything was working great, so Hughes fixed it for us! He drove prices for legal machine guns through the roof (so only the rich get to play), and left hobbyists,tinkerers and working man collectors with no way to get in. This created a market for all the work arounds. So happy instead of the BATF and local law enforcement knowing about who had what, it all went off books. Thanks, Senator Hughes!
The first rule of negotiations is NEVER GIVE UP ANYTHING FOR FREE! Compromise is NOT giving up just a little at a time. It’s getting something you want by giving the least you can…. If they want to get rid of bump stocks, just re-open the NFA registry. This would kill the market for all the work arounds, get the BATF back in the driver’s seat, and drive the prices down so the working man could afford them again.
Arm braces prove you wrong.
SBR’s are available but many people are still opting for the armbrace as a workaround because they don’t believe in infringement, tax, and/or registration to exercise their rights.
Bumpfire and other devices would still be around even if new MG’s were allowed again under the NFA.
The only thing that would kill all these accessories would be treating all firearms at least as Title 1’s only needing a 4473.
I’m thinking this might be their tactic, or it should be if it isn’t: If you want to ban these devices, repeal the Hughes amendment.
IF YOU LIKE YOUR NRA, YOU CAN [FING] KEEP YOUR NRA.
Just don’t get any of that sh_t on the rest of us.
the nra is only luke warm better support jpfo and gun owners of america.
The usa should have the same gun laws as the yemen !!
Ted Nugent should replace Wayne LaPierre
NO! Phillip Van Cleave of the VCDL should be chosen to lead the NRA!
Unfortunately, Ted has gone over to the dark side on this issue. Follow him on Facebook.
“The fact is that the Obama administration…”
The fact is that the NRA has been more focused with anti-Obama rhetoric than with anything else. I no longer feel that the NRA is an organization that is strictly focused on the Second Amendment. It supports building roads in national forests so that lazy hunters can drive their trucks within a few yards of their mass-produced tree stands with electric ass warmers. It supports anti-immigration/xenophobic rhetoric and hysteria about terrorists sneaking in from the southern border. I paid for a life membership in my early twenties and wrote quite a few checks to the NRA-ILA. Today I would not do that. It’s an organization that holds too many unofficial positions that I do not wish to promote, and that includes the defense of the Trump administration.
Just when you thought the National Republican Association had become nonpartisan, Wayne goes full
retardpartisan to attack a retired politician.
“It supports anti-immigration/xenophobic rhetoric and hysteria about terrorists sneaking in from the southern border.”
Your apostasy is showing.
I may support their current position, time will tell. I’m very skeptical right now.
1. His statement about supporting existing laws on machine guns is sickening. If there is ONE gun protected by the 2nd amendment it is the select fire rifle carried by our soldiers (and even some police departments for crying out loud).
2. People don’t really care about full auto that much. They care about accuracy and self defense. We can defend ourselves from criminals and government without full auto.
3. We win this long game by promoting the gun culture. National reciprocity, HPA, SBR liberation.. if these can all be bought with moving bump fire to NFA, that would be a massive win. If we can do that, perhaps even Hughes can be repealed. After all, what to do with all these fully automatic pieces of plastic?
He’s right about one thing. Thanks to our “victory” in getting the ATF to approve bump fire, the line between full and semi auto is definitely blurred in the mind of the other side. Now, the impression is that anyone can walk into a gun store and easily modify their scary black gun to do exactly what DiFi has been wrongly claiming they do for years. A key part of our defense of semi-auto rifles is that “they can’t do full auto, so stop saying they do”. Yeah, I get it, it’s not mechanically a machine gun, but do you think that they people on the other side give a crap when the cyclic rate is indistinguishable to them?
It’s past time gun people stop looking at every new device that attempts to work around NFA or state restrictions from only the standpoint of “is it technically legal?” had bump fire not been approved by the ATF, the world would have gone on, the vast majority of gun owners would still never have seen it, and we wouldn’t be seeing every politician that wants to continue being a politician running away from pro-gun legislation like it was the plague.
Of course, this was all done under Obama, and the near certainty of a Hillary victory, so I understand somewhat the desire to get the ATF to throw us a bone. Unfortunately, that’s not playing the long game. The long game would have been to continue to oppose any further restrictions, while getting a solid case for changes to NFA when a GOP congress and president eventually, inevitably appeared.
Stop blindly supporting every new gadget that skirts the rules because “my 2nd amendment”. We’ve just seen the best chance for real progress on gun rights in a decade go bye-bye because of a nut with an accessory that was of marginal use as a range toy.
The long game is making next year’s primaries an establishment bloodbath in favor of people who want to repeal the NFA. An NRA that opposes NFA repeal IS counter-productive to the “long game”. We’ve already won on culture (in large part by pure accident with modern military FPS becoming popular): Not even half of Democrats support a new AWB. Literally every Youtuber other than Hickok who has commented on the NRA’s statement has disapproved and in some cases very strongly (MAC has been advertising for them for years and very strongly dropped them after this). Victory is in our sights and an old fudd at the NRA wants to defeat from the jaws of victory. Machine Guns are not the problem, the lying (see directly under this) donkey Dwayne LaPierre Laval is.
“We have supported the existing law on fully automatic firearms. And what we don’t want is we don’t want the line to be fuzzed. Because if you fuzz the line, you’re putting every semiautomatic firearm for years.”
I remind LaPierre of what he said in Monitor Volume 13, Number 13, August 15, 1986 “Repealing the machine gun amendment tacked on to the McClure-Volkmer bill will be a high priority.” and that “The National Rifle Association supports the right of law-abiding individuals to choose to own any firearm, including automatic firearms.”.
If you’re an irate NRA member or know someone who is, direct them to this form. It will allow them to complain to the board they need to fire his ass. http://www.theguncollective.com/nra
All of these orgs, the NRA, ACLU, NAACP, etc…, don’t actually ever want to win the war. They’d be obsolete if they did. It’s in their best interest to work only so hard as is required to keep the body alive. Slash, hack, dismember, yank out organs. Just keep it alive. The moment the body heals and leaves the hospital they’re out of business. And it is a business. They’re all essentially businesses.
This times a million.
All a scam.
Couldn’t agree more. LaPierre/NRA’s response was weak as was compromising. As Mark Twain once said: “better to be silent and look stupid then speak and remove all doubt”. LaPierre was on the defense and once again no kind of orator.
Its amazing to have a government agency flip and flop having the power to create legislation or rules. Whats more amazing is LaPierre. Lets see what the final play is, but I don’t like what I’m seeing so far.
People need to think more and whine less.
The ATF needs to do it’s job… which is what in this case? Nothing. They can do NOTHING.
The NFA tells us exactly what a machine gun is in very, very clear language. “Any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.”
Someone please, explain to me how a slidefire stock can, under this LEGAL DEFINITION become an MG? It fucking can’t! All the ATF can do is say “We have no authority to regulate that because Congress has clearly defined what a machine gun is” which is exactly what they said under Obama because they had no other choice.
A civvie AR was never designed to shoot more than one round per pull of the trigger. A slidefire stock doesn’t enable the user to do this and doesn’t restore the gun to a design that it never had either.
There’s only one way any of this changes: an Act of Congress signed by the POTUS and that shit isn’t going to happen.
So, calm down, relax and watch the antis chase their own tails.
I think at the end of the day you are right. This is much to do about nothing and in the end it will be just a bunch of political theater. I’ll have another bourbon though, just to calm my nerves!
There are many fine reasons to drink bourbon. Any of them is fine by me.
Ah, fine bourbon… Dilly-dilly!
Edit: And yes, I fully agree with your other post as well. One trigger pull, one shot. Simple, until the irrational antis get involved.
Although it makes me wonder why binary triggers are (currently) considered legal. Maybe I should pick one up while I still can!
Never mind, I get it now. I had to re-read that ATF verbiage, “by a single function of the trigger.”
Press. One function. Release. One function. Very easy to grasp when you consider the wording that they chose!
Don’t fuzz the line! We don’t want it fuzzed. Stop fuzzing it. Hey Wayne, go fuzz yourself.
I’m more pro-weapon than any of you. 😛 I wish I had a disintegration ray.
Don’t know if this has been said before or not so here goes….
Of f*cking course the NRA supports the NFA & machine gun laws. Look at how much even the cheapest old machine gun kit costs, you know the ones with hacked up receivers, barrels, and bolts. Plus the cost of the stamp and feeding the damn thing. That’s a not insignificant chunk of change, now there are likely quite a few owners in the NRA donating large sums of money. You abolish the NFA or repeal the Hughes and all of the sudden their HUGE investments lose a good bit of value because now us normal beer swilling rednecked citizens can actually save our pennies and buy a full auto before we have to give our machine gun fund to the local nursing home. Oh while we’re bringing down prices let’s get Mosins, SKS’s, M1 Carbines, and Mausers back down around 100-300 dollars.
You “experts” that bought your 1st firearm last week/last year and who have never bothered to even join the NRA find the history above from 10x25mm. Read it. This war did not start when you graduated from high school. DiFi has been at this since your great grandma was in the backseat with some guy you’ve never heard of.
I don’t remember donating to a FREE SPEECH Lobby in support of my 1A rights, so why should I donate to a GUN LOBBY to support my 2A rights.
Because the left wants to rid you of your rights. It all starts with 2A.
Ok, lets say bump stocks get banned or regulated.
What’s the next fall back position?
Pistol arm braces?
Shockwave type 12GA “firearms”?
Vertical grips on long guns?
.50 BMG Rifles?
How about 100 round surefire mags?
Ammo purchase quantity limits?
Reversion to the 94′ AWB?
And since the killer was legally qualified, and could have done so, no more legal class III full auto for anyone? NRA hates these people anyway so why not?
ANY of you that think you are going to get CCW reciprocity or suppressors out of this need you head examined. This is about the NRA covering it’s political allies collective asses, and nothing more. It’s a one and done, and as usual with the Republicans, gratitude will be momentary at best and probably nonexistant.
Missed that in the initial reading, so Wayne LaPetitedick actually defended throwing bump fire under the bus by claiming semi-auto in jeopardy??? OF WHAT? GETTING LODGED IN SOME FING POLITICIANS’ ASS?
THE GUN DEBATE IS OVER, THE NRA SHOULD’VE AT LEAST MADE THAT FING CLAIM AS MANY TIMES AS PLANNED PARENTHOOD DID ABOUT ABORTION, OR THE POS (D) DID ABOUT DACA.
IMO. Every gun law since 1934 is illegal as it infringes on our right to keep and bear arms.
The only thing I agree with is the prohibited person list, and it needs to revamped.
Bouncing checks is a felony, but doesn’t mean you should lose you 2A Right.
And can ron paul come back ?? I miss him and his son is to luke warm ……..
Speak for yourself. The machine gun ban violates the 2nd Amendment. Wayne LaPierre and Chris W. Cox and anyone else at the NRA who doesn’t understand that needs to resign. We need people who actually understand the 2nd Amendment, believe in it and will fight for it. Not against by actually calling upon on am Anit-Constitutio bureaucratic agency to actually pass more unconstitutional regulations.
Let Machine Guns continue to be registered and regulated.
BUT REPEAL THE HUGHES AMENDMENT TO FOPA SO WE DON’T HAVE TO PAY $15,000 OR MORE TO OWN ONE!
M4 or M4A1 goes for around $800 new.
There are only about 176,000 MGs in civilian ownership, all pre-1986. All the rest listed in the NFA are in LE possession.
OK everyone, I have a warning: BEWARE OF ECHO CHAMBERS!!!!
It’s easy for us (the hard core of the guns rights movement) to talk to each other and end up thinking that our views reflect a majority view. Liberals do this all the time. I urge everyone to get out there and ask people outside the core of the gun rights movement – NOT OUR ENEMIES, BUT OUR SUPPORTERS – what they think. The NRA and the entire gun rights movement has worked hard for decades to gain a majority. Our majority includes hard core gun rights supporters, causal gun owners and non-gun owners. IF WE LOSE EITHER OF THE LAST TWO GROUPS WE CEASE TO BE A MAJORITY.
So, let’s get real about the situation we face:
1) Bump stocks are designed to do one thing: Cause a semi-auto rifle to fire at the same rate as a full auto rifle. They are a substitute for a full auto rifle.
2) Bump stocks attempt (probably successfully) to skirt the regulations applied to full auto weapons. This is not a sure thing, as one could reason that the grip and forend become an auxiliary trigger system that fires continuously until released. A parallel to this would be what happens when you attach a motor to a hand crank gatling gun. Hand crank gatlings are just firearms – but attach a motor to them and the electrical switch becomes a trigger and it’s immediately covered by NFA. Ditto for hand crank trigger devices. This reasoning may very well be wrong, but it has enough merit to be litigated.
3) The vast majority of our supporters (causal gun owners and non-gun owners) are convinced that bump stocks should be banned – or more properly, be regulated by NFA. If we try to convince them that a substitute machine gun should be unregulated and available on the net we absolutely will lose their support. If we lose their support, not only can we kiss suppressor reform and CCW reciprocity goodbye – we could see another AWB and magazine restrictions.
4) Like it or not, bump stocks – according to SCOTUS in the Heller opinion – are not protected by the 2nd Amendment. They are not in “common civilian use” and that is the standard for 2nd Amendment protection – again, according to SCOTUS. You can argue all you want that any weapon you want is protected – but SCOTUS does not agree and guess who will win?
So, let’s summarize: Bump stocks create a substitute machine gun, they are not protected (in practice) by the 2nd Amendment, defending them will cost us critical support that we need for other battles, and yet some of you think that this is the place where we should stand and fight? I DON’T THINK SO!
The NRA is thinking strategically, and we should do the same.
It would be entirely reasonable to eliminate the Hughes Amendment, and to deregulate short barreled rifles and shotguns, and suppressors from the NFA.
Reasonable? Damn right it is. Plausible to implement? Yeah, not so much.
We either have the right to keep and bear arms or we don’t. In any regard trying to take firearms from the public who owns them will start a civil war. I am a 2nd amendment absolutist. Wayne LaPierre may be okay with the current restrictions against fully automatic weapons, but I’m not. The 2nd amendment doesn’t make any distinction between automatic and semi automatic firearms. If you allow automatic firearms to be banned then it follows that semi automatic firearms will also be at risk to be banned. If you ban bump fire stocks can large capacity magazines be next on the list for being banned? How about those semi automatic rifles? Are they going to follow? It is a slippery slope Wayne LaPierre!
DAMN STUPID on the NRA’s part
By the looks of the comments on this article the NRA needs to wake the heck up. It is not about duck hunting and building mega shooting facilities, it is about being proactive and on the offence in regards to the Second Amendment. Sorry Wayne Fudd Lapierre time to retire on your million dollar retirement.