I journeyed to Best of the West the other day to test out a Lone Star Arms-modified Saiga 12 shotgun. The gun cycled Wally World number 6 birdshot like a champ. It did not, however, like Federal 00 buckshot. Well, the gun did. The magazines most decidedly did not. “The Saiga fires double-ought in SGM eight-round box mags and PRO MAG 12-round drums,” gunsmith Michael Rogers assured me. “Flawlessly.” The XXXL-size mags customer Tom brought to Liberty Hill were not feeding well. So we’re giving Lone Star a mulligan until Tom himself makes the scene with a mas macho VEPR 12. Or two. Meanwhile, a visual demonstration of the devastational difference between birdshot and buck. Click here to go to our Facebook page for the pumpkin demolition. And like us, please; we’re knocking on 10k.
That’s a mighty wide pattern of birdshot on that pumpking. Unless you live in Yankee Stadium the range is going to be less with less of a spread. In most apartments and a lot of houses the pattern will be one raggedy hole.
Question are we talking two different shotguns?? Saiga and Vepr are two different makes, I reread not sure is this a factory model and modified model test??
Very closely related, Saiga is built off an AK receiver, and VEPR is built off an RPK receiver, slightly stronger and heavier. Operating system is the same, but tolerances may be different and parts probably not interchangeable.
A not too good parallel might be DPMS vs Armalite pattern AR-10 receivers, many of the parts don’t interchange and there’s no standard spec like for the AR-15, so even on the same pattern receiver, you can get substantially different guns.
The recall campaigners need to emphasize repeatedly what she told an actually rape victim, not a theoretical what if argument, but a real victim. The audacity of her tone should piss off any feminist or we should throw the BS flag on their claims of “I am woman, hear me roar”
Yes, Shannon Watts – calling you out. If you and the Milfs Demand Action don’t condemn this ogre, then you are advocating the rape of women. Yes, I said it.
I tried to decorate a pumpkin with my pistols and 00 buck. It didn’t work out very well.
It helps if you hit the pumpkin LOL
birdshot is probably an ok choice for hd if you live in an apartment or are supper concerned about over penetration. if you don’t worry about over penetration, i don’t see a reason why you wouldn’t use #4 buck, or something even bigger.
When was the last time you unloaded on a person because they swept you with the muzzle of a loaded gun. I have never understood why LEOs are held to lighter standards.
I’m sure this question has been asked before, but where were these pro 2A (presumably Republican) voters during the elections that turned Colorado into a one party socialist regime?
Ah, I know! They where were the Republicans of Virginia are right now, about to sit out another election and hand Clintonista Terry McAuliffe a double digit victory, promises of stiff gun control and all.
Whoever coined the phrase “closing the barn door after the horses have fled” obviously had these pathetic losers in mind. Do you here me, all of you Republicans who sit out election after election? YOU are to blame!
will Shannon Watts be there? I am saving my air miles for only serious sightings.
Still no go on FB, huh?
(Seriously dude, you’re cracking me up with this sh!t!)
How appropriate to watch this during game 2 with St. Louis up 1 zip.
Being a baseball nut, I noticed the guys grip on the bat was all wrong.
When seconds count the cops are only 8.5 minutes away!
How do you come up with the cop was male? I’m seeing a copchic with PMS. And a loaded gun.
That robber must have a permanent divot in his head.
Remember, never vote libtard (democrat) again. I wonder if I am getting this point out? Maybe another 6 months to a year should do the trick. Libtard (democrat), libtard (democrat), libtard (democrat). Get the message? No? I have not even started the campaign.
I remember when i had my wisdom teeth out hearing the sound of the oral surgeon breaking the teeth to remove them through the incision. I imagine that’s similar to what this guy heard.
Spot on commentary Robert!
I completely agree.
Gun owners are the number one targets in police states like California, Illinois and New York. It appears they have a shoot-first, ask questions later policy in effect.
How did the firefighters beat the cops to the scene?
He messed with the Kuerig… bad, bad idea….
Argh, the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting or personal self defense. And the mention of militias is a justification, not a limitation of the right of the people…..
Once said, it becomes true. No one will bother or listen to a retraction. I don’t know why that is such human nature.
The concept as quoted here before,
“A lie travels around the world in minutes and the truth is never able to catch up”
Guys you are all missing the point. We need to license baseball bats and receive proper training on the safe use of a bat. Without common since bat laws our kids are not safe. We should stop promoting this culture of baseball and cancel the world series and remove baseball programs from all our schools. We should make schools bat free zones.This is serious folks! Who is with me…
Seriously … why would anyone ever want a semi-automatic Uzi? They look huge. And they don’t look they would fit in any holster that I have seen. So what is the appeal?
Well, first I had to have a cataract operation so I could see clearly for the first time in my life. Then I wanted to learn more, so I joined a small bore rifle club. I bought a long barrel CZ because it had a gold trigger. True story. Then came a deer rifle (Winchester 70), an SKS, and a Norinco Mauser copy .22, just for fun. I picked a Maverick 88 shotgun because it fit me and felt good. Price is a factor, but so is a good record of reliability, and fit for function. I can’t legally own a handgun in my state (non USA) but I enjoy my present guns and I’m not looking for others as yet.
Step one. Train a monkey to shoot. Check.
Step two. Teach him how to find anti-gun politicians. Working on it…
A trunk monkey has escaped. If you see him, please call 911 immediately. Do not attempt to detain him. Police have described him as armed and dangerous.
So, I was sitting by the fire, drinking ape-ricot brandy playing cards with the natives.
Zulus?
No, I usually won. But we were playing for chimp change.
When, one of the guys goes apish!t and says, “Kenya stop calling me a monkey?” He grabs a gun and screams, “I’m a baboon dammit!”
Needless to say, I switched to capuchin-o after that.
The trip turned into a complete baboondoggle.
The New York Times has finally run out of pictures of Klansmen with guns.
When flinging poo just isn’t enough…
As a form of social bonding, monkeys will often engage in sport or groom one another and pick off bugs. The most skilled among them can pick off a bug from 100 yards.
$1275 including tax
Soooo:
1. Of the list they have (which if since 2007 is 6 years)… like 1/4 of them are suicides. So we can rule that out for starters.
2. The list is probably mostly BS and including fallacies, especially since it was supposedly gleaned by reading news media. We know how accurate the news media is (ie AP reporting the tsa shooter was an off duty tsa agent yesterday, mslsd editing 911 tapes, etc.
3. But, let’s be generous and assume that once we subtract out suicides the data is correct….that’s somewhere between 50 and 70 deaths a year. In reality the number of actual crimes is going to be much lower than that, even. Because a lot of those cases where people are charged, it’s probably over-zealous cops charging people. Or, just because they are under investigation does NOT mean the police are going to charge them, either. Or just because they are charged (and charged is a big number on the graph) does NOT mean they are guilty, but people seem to forget that and jump to conclusions….
4. Once you factor all that into account, the real number is, I guarantee, going to be much less than 50 a year, probably lower than 25, but I’m not going to spend the time to try to dig through their media reports. Even if we take their number of approx 50-70 a year and assume allllll the non-suicides were homicide, wow that number is insanely low. Reality is probably going to be much much lower than that. But let’s say 50.
5. From wikipedia from 2010, the number of murders in the US was about 15,000 (it’s 14,700-something).
Wow. Concealed carry permit holders are likely the the most law abiding group, as far as murder goes, in the country. That number is soooo low (and again the real number is probably even lower than 50, probably like 10-20 or so)…I’d bet money that statistically they are more law abiding than police officers are. I’m honestly shocked the numbers are that low.
Also one more point: Those suicide numbers are INSANELY LOW. I almost don’t believe them. I’d really doubt they are that low. If that number is true.. hell I’ll go a step further. If the real number is even several times that number, psychs should be doing studies on concealed carry permit holders to figure out what causes their suicide rate to be so low, and figure out how to come up with behavioral therapies based on it.
psychs should be doing studies on concealed carry permit holders to figure out what causes their suicide rate to be so low,
That’s easy.
We don’t want our deaths to be used for anti-gun propaganda. 😉
Ah, so people are starting to see why I’ve ridiculed magazines like G&A for so long.
It isn’t just their political perspective. Their technical content… sigh.
As Nancy Reagan used to preach: “Just say no.”
My my my how he pads his stats! He includes suicides as “concealed carry killers”. Really? Why? Because half of the reported “killings” are suicides (132 vs 135 convicted killers). So let’s back those out right off, and then add in the 37 murder/suicides, for a grand total of 172 killers over the course of the last six and a half years. Um hmm. Dangerous crew that–26 killers per year (on average), and that includes people who did not use a concealed weapon to commit their crime (Navy Yard shooter) or who did not have a CCW because their jurisdiction did not require one (Loughner). There are more accidental shootings per year than there are intentional shootings by concealed weapons holders.
Apples to apples. There are 15000 plus suicides with firearms every year–and only 20 or so of them are CCW holders. This helps Josh exactly how? IT DOESN’T.
Oranges to oranges. There are approximately 12000 unlawful killings every year, and of those, approximately 26 are by concealed weapons holders. That is 0.2 percent of the total (on average).
My home defense pick is #2 shot 3 1/2-inch turkey loads. You get decent sized projecties with the same speed. You could probably get around 6 inches of penetration easily, which is enough to destroy vitals. And nowhere near the amount of over-penetration as buckshot.