Gun control advocates are famous (in these parts) for using misleading statistics to promote civilian disarmament. Gun violence claims 30k lives a year! they proclaim. The antis ignore or skim over the fact that suicides account for around half of these deaths. Gun control has no appreciable effect upon this behavior (see: “gun-free” Japan’s suicide rate). Doesn’t matter. Gun control is for the children™. For example . . .
“Nearly 10,000 American children are injured or killed by guns every year,” an msnbc.com headline asserts, citing a study of “children” under the age of 20. Yes, 20. Epidemic: Guns kill twice as many kids as cancer does, usatoday.com proclaims. “In 2010, 15,576 children and teenagers [emphasis added] were injured by firearms — three times more than the number of U.S. soldiers injured in the war in Afghanistan, according to the defense fund.”
The fact that most of these firearms-related “childhood” deaths involved teenage gang bangers is neither here nor there. But it is here. Although they didn’t die in a hail of bullets, here’s a Chicago suntimes.com story of two such children involved in “gun violence”:
When 15-year-old Denzel Burke received an order from an older Conservative Vice Lord to shoot at a rival they spotted on a sidewalk in Rogers Park, he and his teenage pal dutifully got out of the car they were traveling in and chased their prey, Cook County prosecutors alleged Friday.
“Wet that T-shirt up,” Eric Vaughn allegedly told Burke, encouraging him to wound the 19-year-old target before handing Burke a loaded gun on the afternoon of July 12.
Passersby also heard Burke’s friend, Michael Phillips, 17, further embolden Burke as the two chased after the other teen in the 1300 block of West Devon Avenue, Assistant State’s Attorney Jamie Santini said Friday.
“Get his ass,” Phillips allegedly said as Burke fired 10 times, missing the rival but striking photographer Wil Lewis in the back as he stood at a nearby bus stop, Santini said. [ED: killing Lewis]
After the shooting, Burke allegedly unloaded his weapon on Devon Avenue, and Phillips was heard urging him to flee: “Come on.”
If these two “youths” had not been apprehended, what are the odds they would have ended-up as firearms-related fatalities? If they had, they would had been more grist for gun control advocates’ mill.
The antis refuse to acknowledge the truth. If you look at the numbers rationally, we don’t have a gun problem. We have a suicide and gang problem. What are gun control advocates doing to address these issues? Making it harder for law-abiding Americans to exercise their natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms. Go figure. [h/t Pascal]
It’s was all the NRA’s fault. And the gun’s fault. And the “gun-nuts” fault. And GW Bush’s fault. And the 2nd Amendment’s fault. And white people’s fault. And men’s fault.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to go feed my unicorn its usual breakfast of hopes, dreams, and kitten farts.
Everybody knows the NRA gives guns directly to these kids!
Last I heard guns were being shipped in by the truck loads from gun shows in Indiana and distributed for free to sweet inner city youth who are honor students.
It’s much easier to say “gun violence”, as if guns were the cause. It’s much more difficult to address the true issues of a collapsing society, the absence of a value system (other than one that glorifies and rewards violence), and the destruction of the family where violence is the problem, and would exist whether guns were present or not.
Is it hard to address? Or have they simply ignored doing anything at all about the problem? Have the so called community organizers simply found someone or something for the populace of these place to blame?
The inner city has to wake up the fact that they are simply being used to get votes. That the politicians they so cling to have done absolutely nothing to improve their condition.
It is a matter of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result — in the case of many inner cities, that “same thing” is to do absolutely nothing.
Or perhaps those in this country (and world) with no social morales and standards (or gainful employment in order to support said kids) having more and more children to act on impulse.
Precisely. We’re on the same page here.
The problem is that everyone is waiting for “someone else” to take responsibility for the problems, the violence, the poverty. In the first place, the “politicians” and government in general doesn’t have any legitimate authority to solve these problems, even if it were possible for them to do so… and it isn’t. Second, the continuation of the problems are their bread and butter, their reason to exist… so you can be damned sure that no politician is actually the least interested in solving anything for real. Government is not the answer to the problems… it IS the problem.
The lives, health, prosperity and safety of the individual is his/her own responsibility, to be worked out in voluntary association and cooperation with other responsible individuals – voluntarily helping their families and neighbors who are truly unable to help themselvs.
Those who just don’t care to be responsible for themselves are and should be in a world of hurt. Choices and actions should certainly have consequences, for good and ill. And that includes death at the hands of the intended victim, if necessary.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone has to pay… voluntarily or at the point of a gun.
The plight of the inner city is an opportunity for politicians to push the government agenda of more controlling power, never to really solve any real problems. Remember gun control is all about the control.
Avid Reader says:
“It’s much easier to say “gun violence”, as if guns were the cause. It’s much more difficult to address the true issues of a collapsing society, the absence of a value system (other than one that glorifies and rewards violence), and the destruction of the family where violence is the problem, and would exist whether guns were present or not.”
The problem with this argument is that the gun control establishment is not about reducing violence or even reducing gun violence. It is about taking away all of the guns from everyone, and especially from law-abiding citizens. Why? Because they are afraid of citizens with guns – Period.
In the case of Michael Bloomberg, Diane Feinstein, Chuck Schumer, etc., I can understand their fear, because a lot of people would like to see them dead. If the penalty for murder were not so high, I personally would be trying to kill those people. Not because I hate them (I do), but because I think the USA would be a better place without those people in it.
For the leaders of the gun control movement, their motivation comes from a deep fear of being killed by a disgruntled citizen with a gun. So they are doing everything they can to take away our guns, and they have been quite successful in their home states/cities, and in Washington, DC., their other residence when they are away from home.
I think deportation to nations that have fully embraced their solutions would be far better. Places like North Korea, Cuba and Venezuela would be good places to send Schumer, Feinstein, Watts and Bloomberg. Let them experience the full experience of the kind of agenda they support
Here’s a little game to play:
Go here: http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html
It is the page to set up a WISQUARS search, which lets you look at statistics from the CDC.
Let’s look at firearms deaths for 2011 for “kids” who are 20 and under. Number? 3,275
Now let’s redefine “kids” to 15 and under. Number? 475
Let’s just look at 15-20. Number? 2,965
Go play for yourself. Arm yourself with data.
It drops to 110 if you look at ages 0 to 9. There are quite a few 13/14 year olds that get caught up in gang culture.
Sad but true. “Shorties” who want to be accepted. They’re lookouts, delivery boys, runners, and even street dealers.
I have a question for anyone. What is the data collection methodology for the CDC?
Is it possible to perform the same type of query against the FBI UCR’s?
It would be interesting to contrast and compare the numbers.
Loss of life is tragic but as George and RF have pointed out the number being fed by the media is clearly inflated.
We also know that guns or lack of guns tend to not prevent suicide. We need to include data from countries who have implemented strict gun control like Australia or the UK in order to follow the rise and fall of those data points.
I would think that the CDC numbers would cross reference the FBI UCR since a death would be reported and then investigated. Once deemed a suicide it would be labeled in all reports as such. This sounds like a job for John Lott’s group to tackle.
Also it would be interesting if we had data points showing for the 14 to 20 range on how many of those were gang related, either directly or indirectly. Sadly I think some of the younger deaths could also be linked to poor marksmanship of gang associates missing their marks.
Again tackling gang activity is a hard thing to do, and the easy way out is to blame the gun.
Even with the CDC’s notoriety for biased statistics, their numbers still do not support gun control advocates.
Seems to me we should be teaching gang members how to shoot straight. As it is … 1 round out of 10 hits a target, and that wasn’t the intended. Not as good as NYCPD but in the same league.
There is an NRA outreach program. Have Colin whatshisname take the Eddie Eagle program to “da hood” for the little kids. Then at about age 12 go back with a marksmanship program. Likely would lead most to the “right” side. The rest would at least hit what they are aiming at rather than innocent bystanders. Win win.
“The antis ignore or skim over the fact that suicides account for around half of these deaths.”
Actually, suicides account for very close to 2/3rds of all deaths where someone uses a firearm to kill someone.
“If you look at the numbers rationally, we don’t have a gun problem. We have a suicide and gang problem.”
^ This !
Throw into the mix $22 Trillion, yes with a T, for funding the “War On Poverty” and as a result, more folks than ever are receiving a .gov subsidy in some way.
And the plan to create a dependant class of voters who blindly vote for Democrats?
Poor utes,,,,,just victims of an uncaring society.
And at present the US National Debt stands at $17.75trillion. So even with the limitedless funds the Fed govt has wasted over the last 50years (at least 1/2 of the spending) we would not have a debt if not for the demtard “war on poverty.
Think of the prosperity that would exist if we had not paid TRILLIONS in interest over the last 50years. Had not created a demtard professional serf class with the welfare spending.
Another area/city/place I’m glad I don’t live in or near.
Hard to be on guard against some random bullet fired by some wanna be gang banger.
Anti’s ignore it because gang-bangers are still “children” that (circle all that apply): are just about to turn their lives around, is a great rapper, needs a second chance, needs a third chance, needs a (insert number here) chance, is a good boy, is the best friend you could ever ask for, has kids
that they don’t take care of, is my baby, was broken by the system, is being discriminated against, just needs help, was driven to that life by the drug hungry white man, didn’t deserve to die, etc, etc, ect…
This is fake, right? I mean, kids that age aren’t allowed to have any kind of real gun, much less a (gasp!) handgun! We already passed a common nonsense gun control law to prevent this from REALLY happening, so this is some kind of joke or something, right? Or are all these laws useless and stupid?
And where is Shannon? Oh that’s right – she’s in her rich white privileged gated suburb. This problem doesn’t apply to her agenda.
“[I]f you take all the guns off the street you still will have a crime problem, whereas if you take the criminals off the street you cannot have a gun problem.”
One man with a gun can control 100 without one.
I remember when George H. W. Bush and First Lady Barbara was trying to address the “breakdown of the family” as one of the biggest problems in America. I was a little skeptical myself back then but over the years I realize how right they were. Now we have a President who didn’t know who daddy was.
The only real “gun problem” we have is the gang and street thug problem we have. The biggest cause of this is too many kids, not enough dads.
Now we have a President who didn’t know who daddy was. Well, he does get Marxist dreams from his father so I guess it is all good.
Chicago has changed a lot since I grew up in Rogers Park. Back in the 60’s the Vice Lords and Blackstone Rangers were south and west side gangs. Rogers Park was about 40% Jewish, 40% Irish and 20% other. You could go say hello to Tokyo Rose at a import shop near the shooting. A world of difference.
The people who live in Rogers Park think they still have a good neighborhood. Lots of shocked folks interviewed after this shooting. And one fool saying all guns should be banned. I drive through the area often. It NEVER looked safe to me in the last 30 years. I try to avoid large swaths of Chicago but it ain’t always possible to avoid evil teens with guns…use a gun-you’re an ADULT.
Back in 2002 I showed my son were I lived and where I went to grade and high school (Stephen F. Gale elementary and Sullivan High, class of 67). From the car all looked more or less ok. Then we got out and walked around a bit. That is when I saw the gangbangers hanging out like the used to on the West Side. I half expected to find my car stripped when we returned to drive to our hotel downtown.
They have destroyed a lot of business with paid parking on so many streets. I’m up at 7200 N. Clark at Direct auction fairly often. I used to party all over the city in my younger days. They claim violent crime is down but my perception is the quite the opposite. I don’t think there is any safe neighborhood in the city. Gold Coast wilding gangs anyone?
On the Japanese suicide rates. I lived there for quite a while. Suicide is a viable and positively looked upon practice if one shames themselves. When you bring great discredit to your family, your honor and those around you it is not only acceptable its a path to redeem yourself. It wipes the slate clean. To some there still to exist in a state of dishonor is worse.
That may sound odd to Americans but its its a acceptable practice over there. You would be hard pressed to find a “Suicide Hotline”.
Did ghe photographer make it?
What is it, again, that Shannon wants? Something about starting a conversation about gun safety? Except, she doesn’t want to have that conversation on her site. So, here’s an idea:
Let’s ask our favorite site (e.g., by way of illustration, TTAG) sponsor a NEW site named: MomsAndDadsConverseAboutGunSafety.org. Let’s kick it off by having our favorite moderator post opening cases to analyze, such as this one. Anyone at all can draft and submit to the moderator any other case; just by way of illustration, the case where the 9 year old girl who lost control of a full-auto Uzi.
Ladies first. Moms (of either sex) begin by posting their solutions to the problem illustrated by the case. E.g., more BCs; waiting periods; buy-backs; confiscation; GWB (Glock-Weapons-Ban); whatever comes up from their flow of consciousness. Then, the Dads (of either sex) critique the Moms’ solutions.
Our favorite moderator edits the Dads’ critiques for good taste; but leave the Moms’ suggestions unedited.
The results will be whatever the Moms and Dads make of them. One possibility might be that the Moms make no suggestions. That would be noteworthy in-and-of-itself. If that were the outcome it would be clear that that is the extent of the conversation the Moms want to have. (None whatsoever.)
I certainly hope for a lot more. I hope the best of the Moms put their best feet forward and start the conversation they are crying for. Maybe Shanon’s Moms won’t take the initiative; yet, others who aren’t card-carrying Mom-Demanders will seize the initiative. Those uncommitted voters interested in following the conversation will see what card-carrying-Moms and non-member-moms have in mind; and, they will learn from the Dads just how well that will/won’t work. Such an outcome would really advance the cause of gun-control/-sense/-safety.
We are ready to start this conversation. We just need to provide a safe forum where the Moms-UnCommitted-Dads can come together without Shannon having to spend precious Bloomberg money to bring her armed guards.
I blame the r-Types, or eloi if you prefer
If those antigun hypocrits cared about the life of even ONE CHILD, they would fill in that death trap in the rear yard. Swimming pools take the lives of more children per year (real children) than guns ever do.(CDC reports)
Pretty and Lovely.