I was talking with the guys behind the NY SAFE Act legal challenge and the one thing that struck me as something no one realizes yet is that the “assault weapons ban” provisions aren’t the section of the law that is “taking your guns.” No, the real trouble is with the magazine capacity restrictions. Because by banning all guns that can accept more than seven rounds, New York State has accidentally banned all of the most popular pump action shotguns. And since no one has really realized the implications of that magazine restriction, I figured it deserved to be explained in its own article.
[The following is based on my conversation with John Tresmond, a Buffalo lawyer who is currently spearheading two lawsuits against New York State for the SAFE Act.]
The way the SAFE Act was structured, it edited multiple sections of the NY legal code in a way where one section didn’t necessarily apply to other sections. So while there was a specific exemption for pump action shotguns and other manual firearms in the “assault weapons” section, according to the lawyers I spoke to it didn’t apply to the magazine capacity restriction section. So, for that section, pump guns are fair game.
That section of the law specifically makes all firearms “capable of accepting” more than seven rounds illegal in the state of New York. While it would appear that this doesn’t apply to shotguns we typically think of as five round guns, the reality is that because the “shorter” 1.75 inch shells are commercially available, the reality is that according to the law those guns are technically 8+ round guns (I’ve personally fit 10 such rounds in my bone stock Remington 870).
This isn’t a problem that can easily be fixed, either. Remington and Mossberg designed their guns with a permanent magazine tube which is integral to the gun. There’s no way to easily modify the firearms to only take five of the smaller rounds.
Even if modified with a smaller magazine, the issue becomes one of the availability of magazine extension tubes. The law talks about a ban on magazines that can be “readily converted” to take more than 10 rounds, and since magazine extension tubes are readily available on the market every single tube fed shotgun applies under the new law.
So, because of the magazine design on the Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 shotguns, New York State has accidentally banned them. Good job, New York.
She’s a prime example of _why_ we have the Second Amendment.
I was inadvertently outed for the first time this week. I was at a church meeting taking off my jacket, when my sweater rode up. I pulled it down, but not before our young vicar burst out, “Are you PACKING?” I was very embarrassed, but I managed a confident, “Yes, I am,” and that was the end of that.
His surprise probably comes from: 1) his out-of-state origin; 2) the fact that I’m 5′ 7″, Asian and not swagger-ish at all, in other words, so not a “gun guy.” So I’m guessing most strangers wouldn’t make me. On the other hand, a surprising number of men at my church have started up conversations with me involving guns, so maybe there is something “CCW” about me.
At work, I’m definitely “out,” as we have a major firearms manufacturer as a client, and since I am one of the only senior employees who knows the difference between .40S&W and .357SIG, I am often called to “translate.” No matter. I now organize range outings, and have helped hook several non-gunnies, including two women who are hot to get CCW permits.
But I try to keep my appearance understated. I never wear gun gear, even from my client, unless I’m going to the range or a competition. (Even then I feel like a poser.) I do have three clips showing on my pockets (knife, pen and light), so if I see someone with a knife clip showing, I figure they may be carrying.
Then again, maybe something about me does scream “gun.” I wonder if my .357 makes me look fat.
Who said it was an accident?
When you use phrases like “fully automatic machine guns” you show how little you understand about firearms, or how willing to use sensationalist phrasing you are.
There’s a very easy solution to your problem – do NOT register anything with the city under any circumstances. Your desire to be law-abiding is futile and ridiculous in a city that is run by Machine statists. It’s a ridiculous notion in a city where Tiny Dancer has 4 armed POs protecting his residence 24/7 but the average citizen is not allowed to defend themselves. It’s a ridiculous notion in a city where thugs and gangbangers exercise open warfare in neighborhoods decimated by decades of progressive politics. Ignore their silly rules and ordinances like hundreds of thousands, if not million + of other Chicagoians are.
Illustrating Chicagoland Idiocy, Mayhem and Stupidity at heyjackass.com
While it’s a nice theory to ignore what is clearly an unconstitutional law, the de facto handgun ban was allowed to stand for a long time. And getting arrested and thrown in jail, fined, and having to pay for a long and drawn out legal defense until the law gets struck down is still more of a PITA than the registration. It will especially become an issue once concealed carry is passed in Illinois, and the chances of a LEO being aware of an ‘unregistered’ gun go way up.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. – Hanlon’s Razor
To say this was not an accident, is too give credit to the lawmakers for having a detailed understanding of how shotguns are made.
It would not surprise me to learn that there is no will among the lawmakers to fix the problem. I am sure that Cuomo would veto anything that could be seen as backing down to the 2A groups.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
I desire to be law-abiding up until the law violates the Constitution. Then I desire to be a free man regardless of the law. As should any American.
Time for a polymer Desert Eagle?
Firstly, Finestien you’re retarded beyond measure. Secondly You will never disarm this veteran and thirdly since I have PTSD go ahead and start that 90% disability check up so I can buy more “Self Defense” rifles.
Its sad that the men and women volunteered to put their lives on the line to protect this country it’s citizens and their freedoms and this is how they are treated. Why go to war in Afghanistan or Iraq when we have an enemy right here trying to take away our freedoms from the inside!
Madam Feinstein,
You are a moron.
If owning a gun is a crime, then call me a criminal. I don’t give a sh**. Just because it’s illegal does not mean it is just. I’d like to see this bitch just TRY and take a veteran’s gun away. Knowing most veterans, they’re probably in a safe somewhere or a gun cabinet. But it’s a good thing people need warrants to enter your house. So even if her bullshit law passes, there’s no way they can properly execute it.
New York State has accidentally banned them
Banned them they may have. Accidentally? I don’t think so. New York has the best lawyers in the world. They don’t have accidents.
PTSD is an advent of the Iraq war? Just by her saying that she proves how stupid she is. In Vietnam, they called it “shell shock.” I am an Afghanistan veteran and believe me, I have seen my share of combat. You know what I think literally saved my life when I came home? Other veterans. Veterans who this ignorant efftard would classify as having PTSD.
if we (America) keep this pace up, we will loose our 2nd amendment in 10 or so years.
Yeah, go figure.
Live in New York versus North/South Dakota?
Really? If you’re in Hartford, CT, you’re 2 hours from downtown NYC’s nightlife, theatre, and the museums. Best schools in the world.
What the hell is in N or S Dakota? Nothing. Seriously, NOTHING. Of course gun makers want to be in NY or even near Chicago in Illinois because they don’t want to be bored out of their minds.
Move to Virginia. You’re close enough to DC to enjoy that city’s nightlife and cultural offerings, but you live in a place where people love guns and there are few state issues with being an FFL or manufacturer.
I lived in NYC for 20 years and moved to N. Virginia. I have no regrets. Moved my FFL business here. But Dakota? No thanks. Nice place to hunt for a few weeks, but live there? Hell no.
“…a new phenomenon as a product of the Iraq War.” This atrocity doesn’t even know what PTSD is. She claims it renders combat vets incapable of handling so-called “military-style” rifles at home, regardless of the fact that they are more than familiar with said weapons. If she really knew what PTSD was, she would know for a damn fact that it wasn’t brought about by the Iraq war. It has been around since the beginning of time. Its in regards to any stressful event someone endures. It has absolutely nothing to do specifically with military or even combat veterans. People can be diagnosed with PTSD from ANYTHING that, in their eyes(or not), is a traumatic experience. Granted, Im sure there are vets who shouldn’t own firearms, but that’s beside the point and only applies to a very small percentage of the crowd. It really boils down to that this is just another scapegoat the Dems are using in their attempt to degrade our 2nd Amendment. To take away the arms from Americas best defense in the case of a tyrannical gov’t. Our combat vets.
Final note: “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”
How does anyone, even who know little about weapon systems, expect Americans to defend and secure a free state from a tyrannical gov’t, who have legitimate military-style weapons, with shotguns, pistols and bolt action rifles? Just think about it.
Mont
USMC combat vet
My Mossberg 500 holds five 2 3/4 shells. That’s a total of 13.75″. Divide that by 1 3/4 and you get 7.8, which is less than eight. So will the 500 still be legal? I don’t have any short shells to do an actual test. (And I don’t live in NY.)
I did a quick internet search of Cabelas, LuckyGunner and Sportsmans Guide but could not find any 1 3/4 ammo for 12 gauge. Exactly how “readily available” is it?
Gemma is nice, maybe someone can email feinswine a picture of her, that should be all we ever hear from her, Randy
Some liberals maybe, the no weapons people want to invite minority robbers into their “nice” store so they won’t be hurt. s brady has made her stance quite clear, Randy
I’m not a “stock five years’ worth of stuff for the Apocalypse” dude, but when my kids were little shopping was a sufficient pain that we’d usually get a month worth of stuff, save for perishables.
My son loves Parmesan cheese, as in really, really loves it. We would get the pre-grated in the metallic green can, which I loathe but my kids like.
We also had a dish-washer, and the granulated detergent for it came in a very similar, metallic green can. Dish-washer detergent is basically solidified chlorine bleach, and so is extremely nasty stuff. I kept it on the top shelf in the garage, 7 feet up.
One day, the three year old, the four year old and daddy were putting away groceries and something I put up top knocked a can of dish-washer ickyness off the shelf, and it ruptured when it hit the floor. Within a second and a half, just as I looked around the side of the shelf to see what had fallen and long before any shout of “STOP!” could take effect, my four year old lunged at the pile of granules and scooped a handful into his mouth.
Bad things ensued. Very bad things. Not so very bad as they might’ve been, because I used to be an EMT and have a fair understanding of chemistry, but still bad.
Was the detergent in a stupid location? No. Should I have locked the kids in their room while stocking my shelves? Probably not. Had that gunk been packaged in a container less like a Kraft cheese can, would he have pounced on the spilled chemical warfare agent? I honestly don’t know, but I suspect not.
In any event, we subsequently switched brands.
Bottom line, the unexpected and well neigh impossible-to-prevent can and does occur, so why tempt fate?
I highly doubt that AK-47 is still up for grabs from sheepdogsnwolves. That contest has been in the list for several months and there has been little to no update about it on the site.
Look for:
1) the folding knife clipped to either pocket.
2) any flashlight.
3) tactical or hunting clothing.
4) tactical or hunting boots or footwear.
5) badly concealed handgun on the belt or in a front pocket.
6) their heightened state of awareness. “Head on a swivel”.
7) change in attitude or demeanor if you know them.
Dear Dan:
The Democrats ceased being the party of the working man in 1972. It has become the party of government worker, professoriate, the self styled urban sophisticate and the dependent classes. It seeks render all but the nomenklatura poor and helpless. So why does it surprise you that it scorns an independent working class voters?
Could it be that a democrat finally gets it?
As a Boulderite myself, I understand a lot of what Dan is feeling. I’m not politically liberal (except for being anti-corporatist, due to personal experience), but I’m definitely more at home in the liberal culture of Boulder than I am in certain gun cultures. And having been to the Colorado state capitol for hearings, votes, and the Day of Resistance rally over the past month has been incredibly frustrating, because the behavior by more than a few people on our side has been embarrasing.
The following is from an e-mail I received yesterday from the Boulder County Democratic Party. I was at the Feb. 22 meeting referenced.
Aside from the fact that the phrase “liberty and justice for all” is from the Pledge of Allegance and not the U.S. Constitution, this e-mail is rather insulting.
Ms. Browining is telling Boulder Democrats that gun owners are too stupid to know when their rights are under attack, and “blindly follow” the NRA rather than appreciate what Colorado Democrats are doing to increase their safety.
I posted really long commenthere that can pretty much be the conclusion to this comment, so I won’t repeat myself.
Q: I think this is an important effort with possible ramifications for other states (if only by example); how can a non-NY resident help?
Q: One of the items in te SAFE Act is that magazines greater than 10 rounds need to be sold out of state. I assume this is done so that NY can skirt the “Takings Clause” of the 5th admendment, is there any precedent for this? Or, have the courts ruled that governments cannot skirt the clause and thus make this invalid?
Q: I am not a lawyer and do not pretend to be one, but from my reading it seems that the “severability” clause they have put into this law can be over ruled and courts can say that “severability” does not apply thus potentially making this invalid and thus potentially making the whole SAFE ACT invalid depending on how the portions being fought are ruled upon. Would you agree? Or, will the SAFE act need to be fought one line at a time?
I’ve traveled with my AR-15 on the airlines. It has to be checked of course. I find it amusing though when the ticket counter askes me to clear it, to which I pull it out, pull the charging handle to the rear locking it in place show the girl (who really probably doesn’t know what she is looking at) that it is empty. Then I slap the side releasing the charging handle and pull the trigger. the sight and sound really does get the attention of everyone standing in line especially on busy days. Even with hundreds of people in line you can still hear a pin drop… or a hammer drop in this case…
Q: What’s the strategic relationship (if any) between your efforts and the suit being brought by the NYSRPA & NRA? Is the philosophy of your case complementary, in addition to, or possibly even contradictory to those efforts?
Always seems to me that if a long gun – any long gun – is situated properly in my shoulder pocket, I have to tilt my head down/forward to get a proper sight picture, especially with a bead-sight on a shotgun. I’d have to sit about half of the heel or less in my shoulder pocket in order to not move my head much for a sight picture.
Lower sights are closer to bore axis, yes? And bore axis being closer to in-line with the top of the stock means that unless you have a really really short neck, you have to tilt your head down/forward to get a sight picture. Or am I just a freak with a really long neck?
Can you please, for the love of Gaston, come to NJ? We’re dying over here.
how did you mount the replay to the shotgun? the picatinny rail? i would love to mount on of the replays to my SBE barrel for waterfowl and pigeon shoots. any ideas?
I always love how leftists just assume free speech and countless other freedoms are a given, like they’ve always been there and can’t possibly go away. So ignorant of history and the outside world, so ignorant of the true nature of government. This is what happens to a populace that hasn’t had to fight for its rights in generations.
You can tell someone what being burned feels like, but until they’ve had their hand stuck in a fire, they can’t possibly fathom it. So we have a nation of cowards and subjects who have been so distanced from the struggle for freedom that they willy nilly give up their rights.
Oh, and congratulations, Nick.
Prove she is as dumb as she is ugly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! By the way I guess “Slow Joe” Biden’s mindset is the liberals norm. Watch out brainlessness is a virus now
Of course it’s a Deville? How old was the driver. (Sorry to the resident oldies)
Unfortunately if we try to go after the seniors licenses the AARP will tool up and take us all out.
Even Canada has exemptions for lever action and pump action tubular mag capacities.
M1 Garand is exempted from rifle magazine limit of 5 rounds. Never thought we would have it better than you guys! Good luck down there, hope they fix this mess.
This is a perfect example of idiots making laws about things they do not understand and God knows NY had quite a few idiots in governmental positions. Don’t feel left out if you aren’t in NY, as I’m sure you too have your share. This is exactly why I’m looking at options for leaving NY.