Why a 10mm 1911-style handgun? “It was our most requested caliber,” STI’s CEO Tim Dillon told me in a cozy curtained corner of their otherwise frenetic SHOT Show booth. And lo it did come to pass: an 8+1 capacity, 10mm handgun with a 5″ slide that weighs slightly less than a SMART car. And costs more than a month’s lease payment ($1514). Available in four months.
On a related subject, could TTAG stop by the Vltor booth and inquire about the status of the Fortis/Bren Ten project? According to their CEO they’re still working on it as of a letter dated this month on the Fortis blog.
+1
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Apparently Vltor’s new Bren Ten has gone the way of the Sar K2 10mm, as in: “we promise, it may possibly come out some time in the distant future…or not.” I’ve turned my attention to RIA/Armscor’s new double-stack 2011 Tactical .40SW, which is supposed to be on display at SHOT right now. Since they use Para’s 10MM-friendly .40SW mags, all you need is to ream out the chamber! Considering they tend to be at least as reliable than Para’s offerings (if not more) AND they are more affordable, this looks pretty good.
We get it. You don’t like 1911s. Good…more for me.
Can they make a lefty model? Bonus is gonna be good in march . . .
Randall was the last one I saw. But it was only .45 acp.
Otherwise, EAA hunter maybe?
At least it has ambi controls in 10 mm
Speaking of which, is SarArms at the show?
Just toss an ambi-safety on it if it doesn’t come with one, that’s a cheap enough upgrade.
Otherwise, if you insist on an ambi slide and mag release… That’s probably not gonna happen.
I thought only your prospective girlfriend was a lefty. (Albeit of a very different kind.)
That does it. This has been a very bad day. My son’s inheritance is shrinking. Post by post the work of the devil is accomplished. I don’t think I’ve ever read any recommendation to re-balance a porfolio into guns. I’ll have to print one to show the wife.
Oh geez.
I was just thinking about that stupid commercial with the opera singers and the need cash now song.
I keep getting these checks but the lump sum would be nice… It would get spent in one day down there.
My problem is more “how can I justify more items sitting in the safe?” I can’t leave them on racks in the den the way my father and grandfather did. Even my long-gone grandfather’s quail guns sit in the safe, and they’re pretty. I think I’ll just restock the two Model 70’s that have standard wood. I’ll feel less guilty. It’ll cost the same as a Mauser, but it won’t be “more guns.” At least that’s my plan…..
When I was a kid, my next door neighbors had a den in the back of the house. Dimly lit, cherrywood paneling, and at one end of the room, the entire wall was a wood and glass wall unit gun cabinet. Drawers to about waist high, and above that, glass doors, about six across, that enclosed the long gun racks. About 5-6 per door, so 25-30 rifles and shotguns standing on end against red felt. Lights inside the cabinet so you could see everything on display. It was gorgeous.
Also, keep in mind this was 25+ years ago, and this cabinet with doors that did not lock, with all these guns, was in a room that had an exterior glass-panel door and a 4′(h) x 8′(w) window. Jalousie windows. (Those of you from unfriendly climates will have to follow the link to get it.) It was insecure in a way that would leave most people nowadays gasping.
You captured the missed era very well. Yes. That. And your link for the jalousie windows page: Goldeneye at the bottom of the page. Fleming should have quit smoking. He had it made. My grandfather’s house, off the first fairway at Pine Valley, had extensive pine forest behind. He could take down a gun, unkennel the dogs, and go shoot. I don’t have it badly at all, but I think I’d have to move to Montana to recreate that way of life. In a busy life being able to actually see the beautiful wood, engraving if there is any, is a large part of the value, the pleasure that makes the artful gun worth the expense. The racks in my suburban town only started to disappear about thirty years ago. They’re down to zero.
I’m not into 1911s, but this one is nice enough and “different” enough and not too terribly expensive (as they go) that I’m fairly interested.
1911 + 10mm + quality manufacturer = excellent product.
Looks awesome, any word on the chamber support? I love my delta elite, but I’d like a 10mm 1911 I could shoot the hottest of loads out of.
Also, only 8+1? Plenty of aftermarket normal sized 1911 mags in 10mm with 9 rnd capacity (Wilson Combat for one), not sure why factory mags seem stuck at 8, colt is the same way.
bwahaha $1514 for a gun that shoots a caliber i have never seen in my life and only heard mentioned in folk stories! i think i will have to pass on this one.
http://gunbot.net/ammo/pistol/10mm/
It’s available. More expensive than 9, 40, or 45, but it’s there.
There’s lots of 10mm available. I don’t shoot revolvers well (don’t’ shoot them at all, actually) so 10mm is my version of .357 magnum. In heavy loads it’s .357+, and a good field carry gun. Not sure I need a heavy steel version. Need? I laugh at myself…
Must be a youngster, then. 10mm worked fine for Sonny Crockett. I ran a Glock 20 in IPSC competition for a couple of years, and it knocked down plates and poppers with authority, although it was like holding onto a brick.
I’d be more than happy to add an STI to my 1911 collection, particularly in 10mm.
In my neck o the woods, 10mm is easier to find then even .357 mag sometimes.
Plenty expensive for sure- usually one and a half to twice and up of what mid range .45acp runs, but seemingly always available.
I’ve been thinking a lot about the 10mm lately.
Pretty sure if I get one it will only be a range toy, but heck. It’s only money, and I can’t take it when I go anyhow.
Here’s the real news an sti with out a billboard the size of Clintons forhead and bits that don’t look so sharp you could shave a perfect curl off of ice
Had me up to the price…
Lo and behold! A good looking 1911 in 10mm from a well respected 1911 manufacturer!
Cue the whining about weight, price, and capacity please!
If I were in the market for a 10mm 1911, I’d go for a Delta Elite (Colt fanboy), but this certainly looks like a sweet gun.
It was there most requested caliber. CZ can learn from this.They would fly off the shelf.
Oh if CZ were to do it… Sheeeeeeit, I’d go into debt.
This actually tempts me even though I don’t care for 1911s. (At least half the problems I see, though, may be inherent to the shape of the .45 ACP round and would be moot here.)
Now if only someone made real defense ammo for 10mm… (I will elaborate on that downthread).
A very nice looking piece but I doubt they will sell a ton of them, just too many other options available and the 10mm round is not exactly cheap. There will be some folks who will buy it and love it, others who will not. It is what I love about the free market system, we can spend our welfare checks however we want… 🙂
The 10mm community has grown over the last few years. I see it growing further. If CZ, which by the way there is a full size version on You Tube in 10mm, can produce with decocker and manual safety versions, the 10mm gurus would empty their wallets.
If I remember correctly the FBI used the 10mm on a 1911 platform. They had a lot of problems with accuracy. I would definitely have to drive it before buying it. If I could hit anything with it after the first shot it would end up in my safe.
I don’t remember hearing about them ever using the 1911 in 10mm, perhaps you’re thinking about them using S&Ws 3rd gen 10mm autos? The 10xx series?
It is only a vague recollection. I thought they had 1911 rebuilt but in any case the personnel couldn’t hit anything with them.
You are not remembering correctly. 10mm is extremely accurate. FBI had a problem with recoil, not accuracy. They also feared over penetration, which would have been a concern with projectiles of that era. Today’s are constructed much better and expand greater.
Wow! I lived less than 1/2 mile from the STI Factory for more than 3 years and never even knew they were there. Great little back-road for cruising on my 1100cc Shadow. Wish I had been more alert to their existence back then… would have stopped in and looked around (assuming they would have let me). Oh, well. Guess I will just have to make a stop next time I am in town visiting family and friends.
I say this as someone who does have a G-20 doing nightstand duty. (Free demos at 2AM, no appointment necessary, walk-ins (not) welcome.)
I really wish there were a good defensive loading for 10mm. Rounds are loaded so light they might as well just be .40 Short and Weak (that gripe is true of practice ammo as well–but at least I can FIX that at the reloading bench), OR the bullet is designed to penetrate three feet, because it’s designed for bears, not bad guys.
[And yes, I know 40 S&W is not weak by any means, but I couldn’t resist.]
As it is, I could be tempted by this gun IF I knew it could take full house loads. Or at least loads substantially more powerful than .40 S&W.
Two people upstream have given a shout out to CZ to produce a 10mm model, and I can only second (third) their suggestion once again. Sheeeeeit, I’d go into debt for that one.
Heretic! .40 is the ultimate evolution of the handgun cartridge and the ultimate expression of the ammo maker’s art; the rest are mere flashes in the pan. (You know you liked the ammo-related metaphor.) The sooner you come to accept this, the happier and more fulfilled your life will be.
LOL! Well, that’s worth a link to this.
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/darkwolfstudios/media/10mm-1.jpg.html
That looks shopped. I can tell from some of the pixels and from seeing quite a few shops in my time.
Yes, but it’s a classic of the “blatantly shopped” genre.
You should take a look at underwood ammo, they have some nice hollow points available in full power loads. It’s what I carry when I carry the delta elite.
If I was a Sherriff’s deputy in a rural county, a 10mm sidearm would make a lot of sense to me. I could engage accurately at longer range with a flat-shooting, powerful round and easily dispatch feral or wounded domestic critters that need put down. I read somewhere that Danish rangers in Greenland feel their Glock 22’s are more than adequate back-ups for polar bear.
Did you mean G-20 (in 10mm) or G-22 (in .40 S&W) when referencing those Danish rangers?
Should be G20. Big badda boom.
Indeed it is. Nightstand gun for me, and I also wear it open for hikes.
G-20, my boo-boo.
I knew such a sheriff’s deputy once, out of rural Arizona. He carried a LAR Grizzly in .45 WinMag. He could nail head-sized rocks at 100 yards on the range where I met him with amusing regularity.
.45 WinMag is the cartridge the 10mm hopes to be when it grows up and can get out from underneath its helicopter parents at the FBI…
BTW, your expectation of engaging at a longer range with a handgun is exactly the reason why Jeff Cooper advocated the creation of the 10mm in the first place. Then the FBI got involved in the whole enterprise and it went into the crapper. The feds (regardless of LEO or military) can’t and haven’t come up with a good specification for a rifle or pistol since about 1960.
Did you mean you met him on the range with amusing regularity, or he could nail head-sized rocks with amusing regularity? I’m not sure how regularly meeting someone at a place you both frequent would be amusing, but the second one makes sense.
Yes, if you’re wondering, I totally had fun asking that question.
He could drop six of eight rounds in the mag onto a head-sized rock at 100. Did it for four mag’s worth of ammo. He was impressive – not only to us bystanders, but also to Jim Cirillo, who was teaching our class. This deputy bought the pistol to function as a “carbine on his hip” back when LAR first started making them, and by golly, he made sure that he was going to make his idea work, so he became a hell of a shot at extended ranges with that beast.
The idea of the 10mm or .45 WM in a semi-auto is sound – for people who are real gun people.
For the majority of LEO’s, that’s simply not the case. They’re not gun people, they’re not going to be gun people, and they’d just miss more frequently (if that’s possible) with more serious consequences.
The military didn’t need a new specification for a pistol since they already had the perfect one. The M-16 was the only game in town when the Army got hooked on full auto except after Vietnam they realized that full auto wasn’t worth much. They stuck to the 5.56 anyway and when they had an opportunity to rectify that mistake they decided to trade away the superior 45 [ball] for the NATO standard 9mm [ball] for the Euro acceptance of 5.56. They should have insisted on 45 and gone back to 7.62.
“The military didn’t need a new specification for a pistol since they already had the perfect one.”
He said 1960, which well pre-dates the Beretta 92, so you aren’t making much sense here.
(OK, put the gun back in the holster, I was just teasing!)
Maybe I’m a Phillistine (okay, not maybe, I am a Phillistine) but I never “got” 10mm, or .40, .45 GAP or .41 AE (remember that one?). They all seem like answers to questions no one asked. Want hi-cap in a fairly acceptable defensive caliber? Thats why God invented the 9mm. Willing to accept slight reduction in capacity for a really big hole? .45 in some double stack wonder pistol. Want to shoot the pistol design that God apparently whispered in (John) Moses’ (Browning) ear? .45 in a 1911. Want to shoot big game with pistol (revolver) cartridge? .44 or .41 MAG.
Back in the 80’s it seemed that every month there was a new be all end all pistol cartridge, and I’m grateful for that because it meant progressive Police Departments would turn in their barely fired .357’s and 9mm’s to get the newest thing and they were available at reasonable prices on the used market.
Having said all that nice pistol…but in order to simplify logistics I’m down to a handful of calibers. .45 ACP, 12 Gauge, and 5.56 for stuff to defend the homestead.
The original idea for the 10mm started with the .41 Magnum in revolvers, which started back (waaay back) when police forces hired men who could actually, you know, shoot. Well, let me amend that: Shoot and hit what needed to be hit, ie, they could put rounds on target.
The original idea of the .41 Mag was supposed to extend the range at which a cop could engage a suspect, but S&W sort of pooched idea by putting out the .41 in a N-frame, which is pretty hefty to lug around.
Then Jeff Cooper got into the act to carry the same idea forth into the 1911 (or a similar, well-designed semi-auto) – an extended range pistol (say, out to 50+ yards). That’s where the 10mm started.
I wrote up a comment on the history of the 10mm on another thread some while back on this, you could search past postings for it. The idea had merit back when cops could hit what they’re aiming at; today, they can’t seem to hit the broad side of a barn whilst standing inside of said barn (with the doors closed). so, putting even a .357 into LEO hands now is just increasing the threat to the general public.
Today, the 10mm idea makes very little sense outside the community of shootists who can and will handle such a gun credibly.
It’s definitely not for everyone, it’s a connoiseur’s gun.
I had an HK USP Compact .40 but like you, I didn’t really see a need for the caliber and got rid of it.
I’m mostly a .22LR, 9mm, .45ACP, .357 magnum, 12 gauge, 5.56, 7.62×39, 7.62×51, and 7.62x54R kind of guy.
I’d love to add 5.45×39 to that mix but finding an Arsenal semi-auto AK-74 is like hunting for the ark of the covenant.
Personally, I’m with you on the .45GAP and the .40SW, yet the .41AE made more sense than the .40SW since you could use it in any 9MM pistol with the change of the barrel and mag, except manufacturers realized they could make more money of a whole new pistol i.e. the .40SW. The 10MM is nice because you get .41 Magnum power out of an auto-loader.
What? Another RF article dissing the 1911 pistol. Yawn.
Where’s the dis? Troll elsewhere, please.
The Dis: “And lo it did come to pass: an 8+1 capacity, 10mm handgun with a 5″ slide that weighs slightly less than a SMART car. And costs more than a month’s lease payment ($1514).”
Truth is not troll.
I feel like you’re being oversensitive. The weight thing is hyperbole, and the price is fact.
It’s not hypersensitivity to point out that the fact of the matter is RF does his best to crap on the 1911 design. His postings are full of that slant.
Ok. S.F. means Slim Frame NOT short frame. There is a slight girth difference between the G20 and G20SF. As for ammo all that I have found is same as 45acp. Have even found some PPU 180gr JHP 50rd box for 23.81 a box. Just cause walmart and the one gun shop\pawn shop in town dont carry it doesn’t mean it isn’t out there. And a big plus for me and my 20SF is that with a simple barrel change I can shoot 40 S&w or 357 SIG. And there is an additional barrel made for the Glock 10mm chambered pistols snd that is 9X25 Dillion. Which is a full size 10 case necked down to 9MM. And I have seen that round with published velocities of 2000ft a sec with a 95gr bullet. To top this off 16rds of 10mm in a Glock 20 that my friends is a whole lot of fire power. And the G20SF is around 600 dollars and same for the G29SF.