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Memorial for OK post office shooting (courtesy

(Indianapolis, IN) Feb. 6, 2014 – “We are pleased the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs rejected an NRA-backed measure today that would have allowed concealed, loaded guns to be carried in post offices. Moms from across the country came out in full force to oppose this dangerous amendment – making calls, tweeting and sending emails – and we are happy to see our political leaders heard us loud and clear. Forcing gun lobby priorities onto unrelated bills – with little debate and less concern for public safety – has been a tried and true tactic for the NRA. We’re encouraged that the Senators rejected the most extreme measure today, and we hope that the Senators will continue to work to improve public  safety.”

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    • sadly that was a very appropriate comment. i however am proud to be well under 30 and even i know what the public book borrowing place you speak of is. oh wait…

        • You dolts!
          It’s where ya go when you are building a fence.
          Come on! Think old fashioned. Fence posts…post office?
          Ya buy them books, send them to school, and they eat the teacher.

        • While I appreciate what you guys are saying about not ever needing to visit a post office, some of us are there on a regular basis, and any place that limits my ability to carry legally isn’t just limiting my ability to carry at that specific place, but is interfering with my ability to carry in general. Just like when you can’t carry on campus, and you can’t store it in your car, that also effectively prevents you from having it with you the way to and from.

          When you read about a Mexican restaurant that doesn’t allow firearms in their establishment, you don’t hear people saying, “Well, I don’t eat Mexican anyway,” do you? And even that’s a false analogy, because there’s always another restaurant, Mexican or otherwise, but there are something things that can only be done, or at least can much more conveniently be done, at a post office.

        • @Matt
          The bigger difference between the Mexican restaurant and the Post Office is the restaurant is a private business on private property. They (should) have the legal right to restrict customers based on any arbitrary reason they come up with. The post office is a government owned money-pit. They should not be able to discriminate against anyone for any reason.

        • ropingdown: Lately it’s been “and the teacher eats them.” Honest. It was in the newspaper.

          What’s a newspaper?

        • JasonM: “The bigger difference between the Mexican restaurant and the Post Office is the restaurant is a private business on private property. They (should) have the legal right to restrict customers based on any arbitrary reason they come up with.”

          I agree that they do have that right, but in a sane world I would think that as a commercial business soliciting clientele, they should also be civilly liable for any criminal activity attracted by their advertisement that customers are defenseless by personal fiat on their premises.

          If they think it affects their business somehow, a “please Conceal rather than Open carry within the establishment” sign would be within their purview but not compromise their clientele at the same time.

        • Matt,

          At least one Federal Judge has ruled that it’s OK to keep your firearm in your car when visiting the post office. Though that may be true only in his district. I leave it in my car, in any case.

          I *do* understand the point you are making. If you have six things to do today, but ONE of them forces you to leave the gun at home, it’s a serious crimp on your ability to defend yourself at the other five places as well. (This is why large parts of the new Illinois law suck–though I understand that you are allowed to case your carry piece in many of those situations, so at least when you get off the el, you can find a restroom or something and re-arm.)

          Private property SHOULD have the right to ban firearms on the premises. Conversely they should be allowed to give consent for them ether open or concealed as well, even if one or the other mode is [wrongly, wrongly, wrongly, dammit!!!] illegal “in public.”

          I am not sure I go with forcing people to accept liability for not allowing their customers to defend themselves. Maybe such could become the legal default, overcomeable by putting “Enter at your own risk” at the bottom of “gunbusters” signs. In other words, if someone bans guns, he can be sued, if he bans guns *and prominently warns them that they enter at their own risk* he can’t be. Now THAT would force a few people to make some interesting choices.

        • @Jason M, Like Eric said, businesses should be held responsible for the safety of their clients if they insist that their clients disarm themselves (and so should the Post Office). But then there’s also the question of whether or not their wishes should carry the force of law. In my state their only recourse is to refuse you service and ask you to leave.

        • Where did anyone get the wacky idea that a business, open to the public, may nulify the Constitution and deprive anyone of their 2nd Amend right? In their home sure, in a public place NO. As idiotic as a”gun free” gov’t building.

          Leaving a gun in a car = abandoning it in a car. Not secured.

    • You say it as if the postal service is obsolete. In the age where people order goods instead of buying locally, the post office should be even more well known.
      I know the post was a joke, but im just pointing that out

      • I will point out that UPS and FedEx lets me carry in THEIR offices. I thing good ol’e snail mail needs to keep up with the competition.

    • It’s the place where you have to go stand in line for an hour to pick up a package from an online retailer who’s too stupid to use FedEx or UPS.

      …or bulk bullets. Because it’s waaay cheaper to ship 3500 124gr 9mm bullets via USPS.

      • For 1:24 scale diecast NASCAR collectibles, USPS flat rate boxes really are the most economical way to ship, balanced against transit time and tracking ability. UPS Ground might get it there cheaper (but most of the time not), but it’ll take anywhere from 1-4 days longer, depending on how far it’s going.

        • It is cheapest, at the expense of the tax payer since the Post Office hemorrhages money at a deficit and the deficit grows wider every year.

          • Actually, my understanding is that taken on a “services performed vs fees collected” basis, they’re actually a profitable enterprise. Their problem, like that of many others, is pension funding. They actually have it worse because I believe that Congress passed a law that said that they have to pre-fund the pensions for all of their employees, even the ones who won’t retire for 20 years. Someone correct me if I’m mistaken in my recollections.

        • So their pensions are no different than every company that contributes to their employees’ 401ks then.

        • Actually, it’s worse than that. They are being required to pre-fund retirement for employees that haven’t even been born yet. 75 years in advance. No business does this. Their budget problems were engineered by Congress.

          • Yeah, perhaps that’s what I remembered incorrectly. I knew it was something that was out of the ordinary, as in “Nobody ever does that, why would you do that?”

        • I did a quick search and found this article helpful –

          The problem is that the USPS had been on a pay as you go plan and they are being forced to transition to a prefunded plan. In a private business those liabilities would have been on the books all along but because it’s a government controlled monopoly it was allowed to pretend it didn’t owe all that money. It’s kind of like buying a new car on credit while simultaneously saving up for a new car so you can pay cash next time (my example).

    • The post office is where you send in your paperwork to the CMP! I was there just a few days ago.

  1. “Forcing disarmament lobby priorities onto unrelated bills – with little debate and less concern for public safety – has been a tried and true tactic of MDA and MAIG.”

    There, fixed it for ya, Ms. Watts. Speaking of debate, when will law-abiding gun owners be allowed to post on your Facebook page without having their comments immediately deleted?

    • Speaking of “little debate,” can anyone name any pro-gun legislation that’s been snuck through in the dead of night or through parliamentary shenanigans like the SAFE Act or the Hughes Amendment? I don’t know of any pro-gun bills that have left the anti-gunners feeling nearly as suckered as we did after those two.

      • I can’t think of a single thing that was for the greater good of all and not a special concession to particular lobby group or politician that has been snuck though secretly.

        • Isn’t it funny, that whenever anyone want to do something ‘for the greater good’ they have to do it in secret. Inevitably “For the Greater Good” has become the battle cry for all those whose ends must be accomplished by means so horrible they cannot defend their actions any other way. Things like the Holocaust and black slave trade were defended by their perpetrators as such. Funny.

      • The only thing that comes to mind is an amendment that allows us to carry in (our!) national parks piggybacked onto a must-pass credit card bill a couple of years ago.
        But that was done in the daylight; I know this because of the “sky is falling! blood in the woods!” sturm und drang from the MSM.

        • It always boggles my mind when “journalists” frame the article around how terrible it is to possess or use a firearm. It’s just weak form. “This man goes shopping, drives a car, and even eats lunch but has a terrible and dark secret, he does all those things WITH A GUN ON HIS BELT!!!”. Sad to think they equate proximity or acceptance of guns as a cancer or deadly taboo, but then again that’s why the CDC is barred from it’s treasonous “research”.

  2. The Committee voted down Rand Paul’s amendment that would allow carry in post office buildings by a vote of 9-6.

    They passed Alaska Democrat Mark Begich’s amendment that would allow guns in vehicles in the parking lot by a vote of 15-0.

    Shannon Watts is full of shit. This was a party line vote. There are 16 members: 9 Democrats, 6 Republicans, and I’m guessing one of the Republicans didn’t vote.

    • Not true.

      Odds are at least one violent felon will survive after committing assault or murder, because his victims are unarmed.

    • Shannon Watts former job was marketing. This is all about the optics. It has nothing to do with safety or saving lives. It is for the stupid headline reading dummies that occupy much of our society.

      It is propaganda for a bill that would never pass anyway given how the committee is stacked

      It really is that simple.

  3. “With little debate and less concern for public safety – has been a tried and true tactic for the NRA”

    wait a second
    I thought that was moms demand action tactic

      • I wouldn’t be so quick to criticize. Though his choice of words may be brought into question, his point is valid. You shall reap what you sow. That’s a valid point for many different aspects of one’s life, and this is no different.

        Those who are in favor of Gun Free Zones are the ones responsible for the lack of armed resistance when that Gun Free Zone transforms into a slaughterhouse. And if one who so vehemently opposed allowing armed citizens into a given building, and then one day falls victim to a crazed murderer in aforementioned establishment, well then there are two points to be considered.

        First and foremost, it’s tragic that a life was lost. But there’s also a certain sense of irony, poetic justice, whatever you want to call it, that the very thing they so wholeheartedly supported was a contributing factor in their death.

        • The blood didn’t start flowing, the ‘going postal’ bit, until the post offices had been gun free by law for more than a decade. Shannon’s just running out of bloody shirts to wave and is trying to keep the supply coming.

    • The funny part is, America is safer then its ever been. So they probably will live their whole lives perfectly safe in gun free zones, wrongfully assuming they were safe only because they were in a gun free zone. Never realizing the truth, that FBI crime statistics support the correlation that more lawful gun owners in America has made America safer. Everywhere. Even in gun free zones.

      • Has there ever been a case of an otherwise legal concealed carrier arrested and charged with that crime? I’m not arguing with that potential, just curious if it’s ever been done.

        • Have you ever had to go through a metal detector or a security check point to ship a package at the post office? I haven’t.

    • I am more than willing to ignore “Gun Free Zone” signs and carry concealed. The chances of them even knowing I am armed unless I/they have need of my weapon are extremely slim. I even carried my J-Frame into a local post office one time, it being so light and comfortable that I forgot about it until I was back in the car.

      But realizing that FEDERAL mistake made me very nervous. I am much more cautious now and glad that I can lock my pistol in the car.

      • I know a Federal judge ruled on this (allowing weapons in the parking lot of a Post Office in spite of the USPS regulations against it) in a case in Colorado, but I’m wondering if that ruling is something that’s been accepted by the Post Office and they’ve changed their regulations? Or is it something that’s technically only applicable within the jurisdiction of that particular Federal Court (sorry, don’t know which Circuit it was in)?

      • It’s those federally mandated murder zones that daily remind me of the quote attributed to George Washington; “Government is not reason, it is not eloquence- it is force; like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearful master”.

        In to many areas we have become the servant. The fight continues to keep pushing back against the cancer of tyranny represented by the likes of Shannon Watts, NYC, CA and Washington DC.

  4. Let’s wait until there’s a shooting at a post office then Rob can email the story to Shannon himself or something with the subject “Nice Job”.

    • They would love a high-profile shooting in a gun-free zone. That’s what they’re going for, they want more gun-free zones and more incidents. That way they can move on to the next step. “See!!! The gun-free zones aren’t working because people can bring guns into them! We have to remove all guns from private hands in order to be safe!” It’s all part of the plan, which has nothing to do with individual or collective safety, quite the opposite.

  5. Liberalism really is a mental disease, part of me hope’s and prays that these ignorant estrogen bag’s don’t learn a hard painful lesson……the other part of me……well……

    • Handy catch phrase, that, however, to be totally accurate, Liberalism is an emotional disorder, Progressivism is a mental disease.

  6. I do a lot of shipping both USPS & Fed Ex, now I’ll steer more toward Fed Ex. I hear the PO was rolling in the dough anyway./// They’re going into banking? I can open carry in my bank, screw em, Randy

    • Uh, Fred Smith doesn’t want you walking up to his counter with a weapon. That’s why he has the generic “No Guns/No Knives” sign on the front window.

      That’s why I always make sure I have one of each on me when I walk in to do business.

  7. Thank goodness the Post Office is still a safe place for a berserker with a gun to run free in a Post Office as in the video game Grand Theft Auto to do as he pleases because we certainly don’t want to infringe on his right to snuff any defenseless Postal Employee or unsuspecting customer. No we wouldn’t want that. (Disdainful, Condescending Sarcasm)

  8. A law saying it’s illegal to carry in a post office doesn’t stop anyone from carrying in a post office.

    • My thought exactly. Concealed means concealed, so who cares? These regulations are asinine.

      Let’s say I walk into town to do a little shopping and drop something off at the post office. What the hell am I supposed to do?

      “If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.” — Thomas Jefferson

      • You’re supposed to park your car somewhere, unholster your gun in your car (where someone might see you and call the police screaming “man with a gun!”, or someone might see you and target your car for theft, and you might risk accidental discharge because of the awkward position), go to the post office, get back in your car, and reholster your gun (where someone might see you and call the police screaming “man with a gun!”, and you might risk accidental discharge because of the awkward position).

        Wasn’t that easy?

        • Yeah. I’m gonna do all that to walk to a counter 30 feet away when the postal employees can see me the whole time…

          “What’s he fiddling with?”
          “I dunno, but I’m not shaking his hand.”

        • And if you walked into town (left the car at home), then what? Am I supposed to travel around all day unarmed because I have to drop something off at the post office for 30 seconds? Totally ridiculous. I’m guessing this [stupid] law is broken thousands of times each and every day.

  9. Somebody should archive this, so that WHEN a post office shooting occurs these brave, wise, Moms across the country can harken back to their victory speech…

  10. Just like my local library. They do not allow guns or smoking and wonder why no one goes in there anymore.

    Hey bad guys, go rob a post office. No one has a gun in there. You can get the money from the counter people and the moms in line! Just take little Jenny as a hostage.

  11. I was under the impression there was already a court descion that allowed you to store a firearm in the parking lot. Because if not…

  12. Better question:

    They’re claiming that they blitzed Senators with calls and correspondence.

    That may or may not be true.

    Did anyone here do likewise to SUPPORT the measure?

  13. As illegal as it is, I don’t think I’ve ever seen metal detectors or guards with wands at the entrance to any post office.

    I forget who said it but with all the stupid laws on the books… “We are a land of men, not laws. If a law is stupid it should be ignored.”

  14. She’s keeps claiming victories by her own imaginary association with something she supports, like sports fans do, “we won!”

    No, YOU didn’t win anything, you watched something happen from a far, which you held no sway in winning, then claim the victory for yourself, good job.

  15. Thank God that MDA was successful. If post offices became safer by becoming gun-friendly zones, the term “going postal” might have dropped from our lexicon and into the realm of urban myth.

    And “going postal” is such a nice turn of phrase… I’d have hated for it to disappear completely.

    • I noticed FedEx has “Go FedEx” for an advertising slogan. I sometimes wonder aloud why the postal service never picked up “Go Postal” just to see people’s reactions.

  16. I heard that the USPS was setting up shop in Staples, to operate with Staples employees. If that goes through, and Staples continues to tell MDA to take a hike, I’ll go there if at all possible.

    • Yep me too. That makes it that much easier to get to a convenient location in a suburban or commercial office center, vs driving all the way into town, to one of old buildings generally in the most blighted part of the urban core, short of parking, full of bums, and bad actors. If you are a busy working person, time is money. If you are an older retired person would you feel safe going there…

      The USPS union is of course frantic to shut this down, because it high-lights the obvious comparison to the the friendly fast service you get at Staples, vs the often slow, grumpy, burnt out civil servant at the USPS.

      And number crunchers in Congress and in business understand very well the high cost (pension is the issue, see above) of the clerk at USPS vs the Staples employee on a 401k.

      Its just math. The USPS is not simply sustainable without constant taxpayer infusions, and its only sliding further into the hole.

      Then theres the delivery issue. After having a time senstive financial instrument lost in the USPS hole, and confirming all possibilities by going to each site in person- main office, wrong address/returned mail drop, etc – I have decided to send anything needing tracking and timeliness via UPS and Fedex, as the extra cost is cheap insurance vs the alternative.

      I suspect most businesses and individuals with similar needs have for some time. That means the USPS is down to pretty much bulk mail, which is low profit margin business, and going out of style marketing wise too, as social media, and online retailing, and secure online payment eliminates the need for paper and human beings carrying it in the middle. When was the last time a teenager you know sent a thank you note written by hand, vs text or email, unless their parent drilled it into them to do it?

      IMHO we are about one-half of one generation away from USPS being gone completely, as the last of the old school customers die out, if it doesnt adapt radically, 10-15 years max. Despite bringing outside private sector experrts in, its probably not likely, given you have Congress and all its corrupt hands in the pot, with union money driving that process.

  17. As someone who works at a post office (window clerk), I’ve been disappointed throughout my entire career that I’m prohibited from defending myself while at work; I didn’t expect it to change.

    Oh, well…4 more years and I’m set to retire, in any case.

    • Incorrect. You are only allowed to leave the gun (and any extra ammo) in the car.

      Which I do take advantage of.

  18. I loved my mom, don’t get me wrong. I lost her to cancer in 1991 at the age of 19 I was. and yes I was a mama’s boy. but these women are far from being moms, in fact more like tyrants, pawns if you will. totally ignorant about firearms. I love the fact that they include gang bangers in their count as children that are killed every year buy firearms. criminals with guns, that just happened to be under the age of 18, doesn’t make these harden criminals children. these aren’t kids that found at her moms gun in accidentally shot themselves or a friend. These are people that go out with firearms that intend to hurt kill or murder people! these people are a very very very small percentage of the total populace. Which brings us all back to the point thatif you go after the small percentages of kids and adults that commit violent crime with firearms, instead of going after the entire populous of law abiding citizens that are gonna owners you could actually make a dent in the problem! Real moms would make educated decisions not stupid ones!

    • Real moms would make every effort to educate and train their kids to understand the mechanics, dangers and safe handling of a firearm so if they encounter one, or someone with one, they can avoid negligent injury. Even better, teach them how to safely use one, and safely store it when done. Instead these so called “Moms” instill worthless fear and loathing into their kids psyche.

      No doubt these “Moms” negatively counsel their kids in other areas of social exposure too, willingly handicapping their own offspring and making them dependent and unproductive rather than robust and adventuresome. Which child will experience more success in the real world?

    • They did some testing to find a name that gained support on its own and “moms” created an image they wanted to portray. They didn’t want to go with the more appropriate “career lobbyists against personal protection rights (paid in part by Bloomberg and the NYC taxpayers)”.

      “Lobbying is the act of attempting to influence decisions made by officials in the government, most often legislators or members of regulatory agencies.”
      They complain about the gun lobby and champion their own lobbying, even when ineffective or non-existent? Seems like more projection because they’re running scared. They don’t have the support of the data, the people, the Constitution, or the legal system so all they really have is misdirection, fear, and lies.

  19. One thing that’s often overlooked is that knives with blades longer than 2-1/2″ are verboten at der Post Office. Not that I’ve ever heard of anyone getting busted for that, but technically it could get you a year in federal prison.

    • So I guess mister postmaster would have a sh1t fit if he saw someone using a K-Bar as a letter opener at his facility.

      What BS; a tool’s a tool. One can be stabbed just as fatally with a metal letter opener as with most knives.

  20. do they really think that all people will recognize this sign or more importantly, do they really think they are safe inside a post office or anywhere else for that matter?

    be honest, it is about as stupid as a sign that says thou shall not steal, in a retail store. it still happens and you cant stop it.

    people need to wake up! everyone is armed all the time now, everyone except you


  21. MDA’s mythology is only slightly less exaggerated than Kim Jong-un’s.

    MDA was personally and solely responsible for keeping guns out of Post Offices! Check. Kim Jong-un personally delivered all the mail in North Korea in one day! Check.

    MDA kept guns out of Staples! Check. Kim Jong-un ate a box of staples! Check.

    MDA is run by a little man with a gigantic ego! Check. North Korea is run by a little man with a gigantic ego! Check.

    I don’t know about y’all, but I know kimchee when I smell it.

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