“Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, the Michael Bloomberg-funded gun-control group that shamed Starbucks and Chipotle into asking customers to leave their guns at home, is setting its sights on the Target chain,” wsj.com reports. “The group turned its focus to Target after gun-rights groups advocating open-carry laws in Texas photographed themselves shopping at Dallas-area Target stores toting rifles strapped over their shoulders.” Joy. “’Moms have their eye on Target because it’s a place we take our children to shop — and we’ve been disturbed by some of the demonstrations that gun extremists have held with loaded rifles inside and outside some stores. Assault rifles have no place in the baby aisle,’ said Erika Soto Lamb, a spokeswoman for the group.” Let me say this about that . . .
Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America are onto a winner with this assault on open carry. Yes, I know: it’s all a bunch of hogwash that has nothing to do with “gun violence.” The open carry shoppers are no more dangerous than the fructose-flavored drinks Target sells in the cafe. But the same cognitive dissonance Texas rifle-toters use to promote their cause – see? rifles in Target! no big deal! – scares the beJesus out of the gun muggles. They can’t understand why. Why would anyone carry a “loaded rifle” in Target?
Let’s face it: it’s a damn good question. While there are some damn good answers – mostly centering on the free exercise of Americans’ natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms – the fence straddlers will never hear them. For one thing, the media isn’t interested in presenting the case for open carry. Notice that the Wall Street Journal article says nothing, not one word about the open carriers’ motivation. Second, the non-gunnies are mesmerized by the image of men with guns in Target. In the baby aisle!
It may be the rum talking but there’s something to be said for shock value. Every time the media shows an open carry demo that doesn’t end in a gun battle, every time the Moms kvetch about peaceful open carry without any substantive change in the law or store policy, the public becomes a bit more desensitized to both Moms and “gun extremists.” And guns? Maybe that too. If so, MDA’s anti-open carry campaign could end up being a Pyrrhic victory. Here’s hoping.
That’s one way to look at it…
“Assault rifles have no place in the baby aisle,”
Apparently they have never visited Israel.
Have you? It’s not the mecca of open carry for civilians that you imagine.
There is no “open carry mecca” per se, but in most of the world open carry is acceptable, if not eyebrow raising, and concealed carry is considered something “only criminals engage in”. Open carry is generally unregulated and in places where people aren’t irrationally afraid of guns, open carry at the most is a conversation starter. Check out international gun laws to see just how many countries allow you to conceal carry. If you’re looking for world opinion, open carry is favoured over concealed.
Sure there is… it’s called Sudan:
See look at this guy:
Or these guys:
Somalia is pretty darn open carry…..
Actually I would use Switzerland as a better example. They are conditioned to see citizens with their rifles, particularly around qualification season. Yes I know there are differences, that everyone is mandated to be in a militia and off duty rifles are generally unloaded, but the mere sight of a SIG 550 in a store doesn’t send anyone in a frothing tizzy.
I’m pretty sure they have to leave the guns locked up when not on the way to the range. Their gun control is pretty strict iirc.
Actually, they don’t. I lived in Switzerland for a number of years and is very common to see people from all walks of life and social stratus with their SIG 550 in their back (light rail, train, bike, etc). No one makes a fuzz or gets worked out about it.
Their gun laws are comparable to some of the good States here in the USA.
Here is a picture of a guy at the Apple Store in Geneve checking out IPads… nobody even cares.
Every picture I’ve ever seen of people open carrying rifles in Switzerland the entire BCG is absent. I don’t have to to Google Fu the basis of this, but regardless, carrying a firearm that needs to be assembled before it’s useful as a self defense tool strikes me as having an attack dog that hasn’t been born yet. It’s also a great way to announce to bad guys “Hey, look, I have a gun! Shoot me first!”
Guess those shoppers don’t want to end up as a ……
There is a Coke on my keyboard now.
Instead of confronting, or “co-protesting,” the long-gunners should pick a locale where MDA is not. That way, MDA looks like a bunch of shrill harpies, screaming into the wind.
They already do.
Good luck with that. I doubt any of them are actually at the place when the demonstrations are held. They just pop up once they hear about it on the news and then complain to the company’s HQ.
And maybe, just maybe, they can exercise just a molecule of self-discipline and NOT PLASTER PICS AND VIDS OF THEMSELVES ALL OVER THE INTERNET.
So tired of their “Juxtaposition For Shock Value” thing… it’s the ultimate in “0% logic, 100% emotion”.
Is an “assault weapon in the baby aisle” more likely to jump up and “murder a baby” than it being in the automotive aisle? …. nevermind, I shouldn’t even be entertaining that line of thinking, it’s not supposed to be logical.
If you’d like, I’ll share my popcorn while we watch this tear jerker develop.
Intruding into MDA’s target audience are the O/C’ers? Maybe this is actually a comedy.
Look for it on the Discovery Channel next month.
Hope or Rope on the T?
PS though the wearer is styling w/ The Oreos, he could have gotten a bit closer to the razor that morning, just sayin!
Hope…..for bacon. The symbol is representing bacon and eggs, not “O”.
I thought he was pimping for the “Hackers On Planet Earth” convention.
And there’s their new strategy! Can’t pass the legislation, just go business to business and make it incredibly inconvenient to carry. I don’t shop at Starbucks or Target, but I’m sure for those that do, this is a pain in the ass.
“Assault rifles have no place in the baby aisle.”
and I’m guessing that none of the weapons were assault rifles, I really doubt any had the giggle switch. So MDA should be all good with this.
The rum is talking at 1:30pm?
Are y’all accepting applications?
Submit an article or a review. Some of the posters here got their start that way…
So now Open Carry Texas is operating in tandem with Shannon and the Moms? This isn’t gong to end well. At all.
Question: Just when are the are the OCT poobahs going to wake up and realize that their strategy of carrying long guns into private businesses (and posting lookitme photos on social media) is a huge failure and is actually furthering the cause of gun controllers?
Am I the only one who sees a similarity between OCT’s Chipotle ninjia’s antics and the “Hollywood Stunz” bikers who thought it was cool to take over New York City streets . . . and who caused an accident and then ended up attacking a family in their SUV? Or maybe they’ve hired Rev. Al Sharpton as their media advisor . . .
I want open carry normalized in every city and hamlet, but it’s time to regroup and come up with a plan that doesn’t allow MDA to use it to further their agenda loud and proud on a national stage.
While I don’t necessarily foresee that last part the rest of your points are spot on.
Let’s hear your plan. *crickets*
I am glad to have the right to sling a rifle on my back and walk into certain places…..but….that don’t mean its a smart and productive thing to do. Just because you can do something, don’t mean you should.
I’ll bite. Why the hell would anyone carry a rifle in Target?
BECAUSE THEY CAN.
For now. Until they can’t.
“BECAUSE THEY CAN.”
Clearly the go to when it’s not possible to come up with a real answer…
Open Carry Texas… Stripping Americans of their gun rights, one store at a time.
But it is doing the opposite. Oops!
Really Paul? How about we start keeping a list of all the places guns aren’t welcome because of OCT? We’ll be adding Target to it any day now.
@Paul G, Seems to me they are screwing gun owners in every state whenever they make an ass of themselves in a store, food place or coffeshop in Texas. Wah, wah, Texas don’t let us open carry handguns. Booh freaking hoo, crybabies. The immature attention whores need to find a different method of achieving the goals other than scaring people in stores. They are screwing the people in free states with the jackassery of essentially forcing national stores to ask people to keep long guns at home. And everyone knows this, it is in every OCT related article thread on the planet. Are they adjusting their methods? NO. Which is why people are starting to suspect they are operating hand in hand with MOMS and Bloomberg and making everyone look bad on purpose. Remember the Ren and Stimpy Chipotle Commando photo? Wasnt it MOMS who broke that out? OCT, losing gun rights for everyone, one protest at a time! With friends like OCT, who needs gun control advocates. Gee, thanks buddies!
You don’t have “rights” on private property. If the owners don’t want you there, and show you the door, you have no right to resist.
So, they can. But, SHOULD they? Seems like a political loser to me.
You can walk down the street wearing a giant swastika sign. It’s totally protected under the first amendment. Just don’t expect people to treat you politely, welcome you into their businesses or side with you in any political debates.
A carbine is not a swastika. One is a tool, the other is the symbol of hatred, fascism and oppression. That said, the way to win hearts and minds is not to show up with rifles slung over your back. It terrifies people, and people aren’t likely to be sympathetic to people who terrify them. What’s more, it’s tactically a terrible idea. A 16 inch barrel is a hindrance in close quarters, and open carrying is an invitation for bad guys to shoot you first.
I understand that there are folks here who don’t give a sh!t about the hearts and minds component of our struggle. As far as they’re concerned legislative action isn’t a thing and we won’t win unless we aggressively shove our rights down everyone elses throats. Well, good luck with all that. If your only acceptable outcomes are all or nothing, let me be the first to thank you for pushing the 2nd amendment towards nothing.
So why don’t they OC swords instead?
Because they can’t open carry a handgun…yet. Hopefully once handguns are allowed the pearl clutching will be over.
Why do you want to open carry a pistol. What advantage does it give you other than to freak out the squares. I fully support the right to carry a long rifle openly to and from the range, while hunting, to your car etc. But taking your rifle to the local taco joint to make a point, and then pose with it like a jackwagon is counterproductive. I feel the same about pistols you shouldn’t be penalized if your cover shit rides up over your pistol but intentional OC what is the point.
Because they are morons – and basically want to screw the rest of us to make a point. I’m guessing they are actually anti-gun plants because most gun owners aren’t this stupid.
Wouldn’t surprise me in the least. No one goes full retard like OCT does unless they are, in fact, fully retarded or working for the other side.
That thought occurred to me a while ago. They have to be the most suggestible buffoons in the Universe or victims of “Hey! Hold my beer and watch this…”.
“Hey! Hold my beer and watch this…”
Nothing good ever follows that statement.
I think it would be interesting if groups like OCT started picking a couple of their events to only carry shotguns and then another event to only carry rifles with wood furniture. Obviously, MDA will still shriek from the rooftops, but it would just be entertaining to hear them scream about “assualt rifles” while the OCer’s are carrying around 870’s.
Or even better, Model 1200s.
How about 1887’s?
Except 870s are “riot guns” that only police and prison guards should be allowed to carry. That’s what I was told by a commenter at HuffPo.
Tis a hardy soul that braves the depths of progderp on the Huffpo, Slate, Salon, MJ et al comment sections. I applaud your tenacity.
For every business that has a knee jerk reaction and disallows carry Bloombergs group can claim another victory. Not good.
If you could reason with these folk…show them that “hey, we all carried our “Assault Weapons” in here and nothing bad happened, in fact it made it more safe” then this type of demonstration would work. Sadly all it does is turn the fence straddlers against us and make me add yet another place I refuse to spend my money.
I’m sure you guys will all accuse me of being anti for saying this but this is not the way to demonstrate your support for open carry. Shock value doesn’t work in this case. Take Chipotle, I used to be able to carry there until the open carry “demonstration”..now I have to boycott one of my favorite spots.
There’s no such thing as a fence straddler. That’s pure myth born of gun owners’ collective hopeful imagination.
There are, however, plenty of people who don’t contemplate for longer than two seconds anything gun related and do not factor that into their votes; either positively or negatively. Characterizing these people as fence sitters implies that they’re even anywhere on the field to begin with, which they are not. They’re oblivious to firearms issues, save for the moments after a spree, then they return to their blissful ignorance.
The open carry supporters can keep snidely talking about “Their Constitutional Right” and the “positive publicity of nothing happening” but it doesn’t change the fact we are losing the PR way.
If they show up en masse with rifles at Target, guess what will happen? MDA targets a business, open carry shows up, business says firearms are no longer welcome.
This is not advancing our agenda, we are being played.
Then how do you explain Home Depot?
Never thought about it that way. Robert, maybe you and the other writers at TTAG could convince a sympathetic media source to air an analysis on how “miraculously” none of these rallies have ended in the bloodbath that MDA keeps yelling about.
I have a serious question. Why all the photographs of these open carry ‘demonstrations’? Who are these photos supposed to convince? I kinda get the idea of normalization of gun carry, but taking a static pic of yourself (especially when posed) removes the context and makes it easy for the antis to use it for their own purposes. It removes the whole purported purpose of the event, to have people see guns as normal in their everyday (walking around) lives.
It does make for a kewl facebook pic though, which is what I suspect the purpose really is when people pose for these.
I applauded the initial efforts of OCT which tended to focus on, well, open carry on public streets. There were a few awkward interactions with police but, generally, OCT seemed to be doing a reasonable job of making their point about open carry being legal in Texas. But then the leadership decided to double-down and begin open-carrying in private businesses. I suspect that in the fevered brains of OCT’s leadership is the fantasy that they’re recreating the lunch-counter anti-discrimination actions of the Civil Right Movement. That they are/were entirely wrong about this seems to have completely escaped them.
Now what’s happened is that the noble purpose of OCT’s initial efforts has been hijacked by a bunch of bad boyz, Chipotle Ninjas who get off on posting selfies on Facebook.
They need to leave private businesses out of it. These companies want to make money, not be dragged into the middle of someone’s political agenda.
I think keeping it to public property is the best tactic. Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you SHOULD.
I think a better tactic is to focus on getting Gregg Abbott elected and pressuring him to follow through on his promise. Abortion Barbie was against gun rights until she woke up and realized she is running in Texas. I have a feeling she will not be so supportive once she is in office.
I know some people are turned off by these demonstrations. However whenever I see these pictures it just screams “freedom”. To me. I live in one of the worst gun states in America. When I see guys/gals with the freedom to walk around with their rifles it just makes me proud that I am an American.
For me, I get the opposite feeling. When I see these morons walking around with rifles over their shoulders I see people who don’t have that freedom. Where I live we can do this without incident. No one needs to go demonstrating. That’s freedom.
Thank you, Open Carry Morons, for making MDA’s job so easy.
I am beginning to think these idiots are “plants.”
“Conceal carry morons” whining about open carry is exactly what MDA and company want. And again, open carry handguns is okay but not rifles? How so? How about the MP5K pistols, AK pistols and AR pistols, classified as handguns and concealable? Or does it just apply to your 1911?
No, they don’t. Moms Demand Action for Mayors in New York gives exactly no sh!ts what the state of our movement looks like, unless of course factions within are making us all look bad. Beyond that, Shannon knows damn well that she’s not going to win us over. She knows that this is a battle for the hearts and minds of undecideds. A toxic vulture, Shannon Watts most certainly is, but an idiot not so much.
Demanding unity in the face of childish and idiotic behavior is ridiculous, and it only strengthens my view that NRA leadership needs a workover. We need leadership that’s strong and uncompromising on the second amendment while also being willing to call bullsh!t when they see it.
I think the NRA leadership needs a “working over.” As usual, late to the party not once but twice, and stepping on their own ****s in the process. Truly a clown show. And the Mighty Midget is laughing himself silly and pointing at them.
OCT might be able to get across a good message if they looked respectable, and simply stayed out of the stores. That’s my main critism.
However I’m pretty disappointed by the shaming going on here at TTAG.
Old maxim: “You can’t fix stupid.”
Imagine that I oppose abortion and make a sign with a graphic photo of a mangled aborted baby; I then walk up and down the sidewalks along a busy street with my sign. Regardless of the fact that the photo makes many people uncomfortable and furious, I am good to go, right? Yes. Next, I decide to walk into a national retailer with my sign. Still good, right? Not from the national retailer’s perspective.
So how about open carry of rifles into businesses? I have to imagine that most businesses view a person carrying a rifle in the low ready position into their business like a person prominently carrying a sign with a graphic photo of a mangled baby. And I imagine that most businesses view a person carrying a rifle slung on their back into a business like a person discretely carrying a sign with a somewhat obscured graphic photo of a mangled baby. Neither is good for their business and they are going to push back.
Having said all that, no one could possibly die in a business in the next five minutes if a person cannot carry a sign into the business. But, a person could very well die in the next five minutes if a person cannot carry a firearm into a business. Thus having a firearm is much more urgent than having a sign. How does the urgency of having a firearm change the situation? I don’t have a good answer to that question.
My thought about carrying a rifle into a business: carry it in a scabbard slung on your back.
I don’t get why all of these mall ninjas need to carry around their AKs to sit down and eat. Carrying a long gun on your back when sitting to eat is uncomfortable and frankly stupid. Chipotle is not Afghanistan and you do not need to carry your damn AK in the low ready. Its one thing to hold a march out in the streets with signs (Completely Cool IMO), but it is another thing to go into a private business and cause undue alarm by carrying around your AKs to “Support the cause”.
I’m sure most other readers hearts would skip a few beats if some idiots walked in Chipotle with an AK for Apparently no reason. Anything other than on your back slung is a lethal threat IMO… Even then I am going to make a beeline for the exit because I don’t want to be caught in the middle of a robbery or be muzzled by some mall ninja posing for selfies.
You don’t even see most cops carrying around long guns when eating, why do you feel the need to force people in the business to become uncomfortable and force the business to make a decision based on all of the bad press? Not to mention when happens when Mall Ninja has an ND and shoots little annie?
If you think the place is dangerous enough that you do need a loaded rifle at the low ready, you seriously need to evaluate your choices or maybe have a mental exam.
How can they eat and carry a rifle in low ready simultaneously?
People carrying AK’s get hungry too.
I feel its becoming all to easy to cast OCT as the enemy here.
They’re not helping, that much is obvious. But I sense a rush to sacrifice these tactless demonstators on the public altar, and that does bother me a little.
The problem is that they’re on a public stage and their performance is so bad, so incompetent, that they’ve now become a embarrassment. OCT is rapidly losing its hard won credibility as a result.
OCT is losing some popularity with people on this site because they have done more to advance MDA’s cause than TTAG’s or the NRA.
Their hearts are in the right place but their actions are helping the other side.
Target’s credit card security breach hurt more people than all the OC demonstrations in the history of the world. The breach cost Target a 46% drop in profits and generated at least $200 million in excess costs to credit and debit card issuers. On top of that, one million to three million cards were sold on the black market. The card holders will be dealing with the ramifications for a decade.
Target has a lot to answer for. Messing with lawful gun owners would not be a good place to start.
Except Target won’t see banning OC as a cost. They will see it as a PR win and will issue a press release in a heart beat.
I figure the OC crowd does a lot less damage to 2A than the people that vote Democrat.
I agree, but that is a pretty low bar to beat
I really have to wonder how much Bloomberg and MDA are paying these OCT people to aid them in their bid to destroy 2A.
The ones destroying 2A are the so-called gun owners saying “there is no need to open carry a rifle”. You start saying that it can evolve into “there is no need to own a rifle” and so goes the argument.
Nobody is saying “there is no need to open carry a rifle.” They’re saying (pretty unanimously) “there is no need to open carry a rifle in a national chain store.”
Read ALL of the words. They each convey meaning. Then go write your legislatorcritters.
I got an idea, I’ll carry my AK in Target, even though I never ever shop there, and agree to stay out of the baby isle, if MDAAHD…….whoever, falls off the edge of the planet.
I see a lot of commentators saying that OCT are plants by Bloomberg, but I disagree. If there is indeed some connections, than there would definately be a money trail that would be easy to expose. Plus it’s easier to plant a few people within a group, it’s harder to plant an entire group without exposing your operations. Plants as OCT only works if it outrages everyone else, and to open carry a rifle in Texas is no guarantee it will provoke outrage. No, at most I just see a bunch of passionate (maybe too passionate sometimes) 2A supporters that occasionally draw fire for their demonstrations. But in no way am I going to blanket bash them and side with the enemy and by saying they are giving verbal ammo to the opposition. As long as no deadly incident occur with OCT members, and they stay within their legal limits, I see no reason to deride them. In the war against Statism, you have to use every means at your disposal to make your case, you cannot step back and let the opposition frame your points.
“In the war against Statism, you have to use every means at your disposal to make your case, you cannot step back and let the opposition frame your points.”
Umm. Well, the problem is that OCT is currently doing a bang-up job of framing the opposition’s point for them. What they’re doing is so counterproductive they might as well be in the employ of Bloomberg and the Mom’s. What is at issue is a question of competence in handling public demonstrations. Do it wrong and you lose. They’re losing big time.
Bloomberg doesn’t need to control the entire organization. All it takes is one key agent provocateur. See Felix Dzerzhinsky and “The Trust.”
I hope these gentleman realize that the definition of insanity
Is doing the same damn thing over and over again but expecting a different result. When has this strategy they continue to use worked, in fact it seems that it’s caused more stores to change their policy more than it has caused pro gun laws of any kind being passed. Don’t you think it might be time to
Change up the way your doing it considering you seem to
Be doing it wrong?
Frankly, I don’t want to see these mopes in Target or anywhere else, other than the range or in their homes. I don’t know who they are, and with their rifles out like that, they’ve got the drop on me.
Dammit, I CC into Target all the time but if they go gun-free, I’ll be left with…Walmart. Ugh think I just threw-up a little.
If it makes everyone feel any better, I recall reading on an Internet news source this morning that this particular stroll down the Infants’ Aisle actually took place in March of this year. Like three months ago.
Can anyone confirm or refute? If this is true, we are being gamed to the MAX!
Is there anything about demostating with a osw holster either empty or a dummy gun in it, is that’s illegal?
My problem is it’s already legal to carry long guns openly, so what is the point? OCT wants to be able to carry handguns openly. A couple of years ago at a family reunion I was wearing a beer holster and as my elderly aunt looked down at it in the chow line, she said “oh I thought you were wearing a gun”
Long guns will not normalize the idea of gun open carry. But I do think it’s possible to normalize the idea of open carry hanguns if folks get used to seeing holsters on the hip of everyday people. Folks are already used to seeing LEOs with a holstered gun on thier hip and think nothing of it.. My aunt, who grew up on a ranch thought nothing of it when she mistook a holstered beer bottle for a holstered weapon.
Yes! Get a fancy leather holster, put a copy of the constitution in it. Draw attention to your cause without scaring people. Looking like your are an operator on an operation operating a burrito (or oreos) is not going to help people come around to your point of view.
You can’t carry a sword in TX either but showing up to Whataburger with a chainsaw is not going to get people on your side.
I’m sorry but open carrying rifles in target is not going to normalize firearms and the carrying of them to the public. I just don’t buy into that argument.
Handguns on the other hand I could see pushing for the normalization of that.
Slippery slope argument there. An SP89 or a P556 are considered “handguns” by the law, open carry them along with your 1911?
“Handguns on the other hand I could see pushing for the normalization of that.”
For the thirty-gazillionths time…OC of handguns is illegal there.
They are NOT carrying rifles in to eat because they fear attack (as one poster above alluded).
They are not carrying rifles to (necessarily) be tacticool.
They are OC-ing rifles to make a point.
Right or wrong, effective or not, it is a political protest that has nothing directly to do with rifles.
If TX gets OC of handguns next year, I’m going to personally enjoy hearing the mea culpas of everyone saying, without a shred of tangible evidence, “They are hurting our cause,” because they will have gotten what they are protesting for.
That’s an “if.” We shall see.
Well. what about replica BB guns [ http://www.replicaairguns.com/buy-air-blank-guns-us ]? What about black powder pistols? I don’t know for sure, but I believe they’re legal to OC in Texas and would be much more on point.
Mom’s worried about OC….Really, MOM’s should be hammering the crap out of Target’s Management for online security…which did more damage Mom’s digital life than all lawful open carry demo’s to date.
Someone raised the issue of Open Carry Texas being a false flag operation and I am beginning to think that they have a bad actor in the leadership. Either that or they are incedibly stupid. Every time they pull a stunt like this another business tells us that guns are unwelcome. Listen up Texans! Your state isn’t at the top of the list of gun friendly states. Concentrate your efforts to get open carry of hanguns on legislative action. Work with the NRA and the SAF to lobby for a change in the law and by all means exercise your existing rights in the public square. But keep your long guns out of high profile private businesses. Your Second Amendment rights end at their door.
ok this might be tin foil territory but I take issue with people suggesting the empty holster thing. Think about it take pictures of a group of folks wearing empty holsters. Now think about how easy it would be for someone else to spin that for example (look at all these gun owners wearing empty holsters in support of our common sense gun law reforms or look at all these gun owners who support our handgun ban) this gun rights war is not going to be pretty, it’s not chess & it ain’t checkers. This is a culture war (think subversion of former democratic nations by the soviets) it will be ugly and it will be dirty.
Should they carry into businesses? No, and someone correct me if I’m wrong but did OCT say DON’T carry your rifle into businesses?
I’m a gun owner, and a supporter of the 2nd amendment. If you come over to my house (say for a birthday party or dinner or something) with your AK/AR slung over your back, I’m going to ask you to either put it in your trunk or allow me to put it up in my safe. This doesn’t mean I hate guns, or that I’m not a big enough supporter of the 2a, it means I don’t want you doing that stuff in my house. Target has every right to react in the same way. I wouldn’t even be mad at them for “overreacting” because sometimes people (OCT) are so dense that you just have to change the rules.
So please, OCT, keep the demonstrations outside where demonstrations belong. Don’t force the hand of all these private businesses. Don’t take a great cause and use it to alienate.
Except that great cause so far hasn’t gotten us open carry in Texas in the past. Now, we have both parties’ candidates for Governor this year on record supporting open carry legislation. Sooo…..
Sooo….. What??? Nuthin’. That’s what.
Both parties would support burning babies if the media was pushing it.
why do you people at TTAG keep posting about mda? why even mention them it just gives them more attention. i would stop posting about the stupid organization we all know they make no logical sense and will never think logically so why bother? i see no point in giving them even more attention which is what they want…not trying to sound sexist, but most women need more attention then men. if you give them that attention the more they want it…so stop posting about these idiots….just my thoughts on it.
Content, TTAG needs it, MDA provides it.
So, would you assume that we anti-gun-control types should remain ignorant of what the gun control machinery is doing?
This question has been answered many times with various valid points. One is, “know thy enemy.” Another is…Search Engine visibility. When someone types “Moms Demand Action,” we want our rebuttals to their shrill non sequitors to be seen.
Is your post a plant? It kinda smells like it.
TOC and MDA seem to be working together on this. Is TOC a shill group?
I could see them going after target. There is a much better chance of them convincing them than say… Walmart:
1) As of this moment, Target doesn’t sell firearms or ammunition of any kind.
2) Target’s are completely devoid of any kind of “hunting equipment.”
Because after all… hunting animals is unethical… right? Much better for those animals to be force fed food completely nutrient or vitamin free that they don’t usually eat nor want, or force fed antibiotics, hormones, and receive injections. Finally when they are fat, terribly sick, and almost ready to die from thus being so, we butcher them, package them in a polystyrene based shrink wrapped container (normally labelled “Tyson”) and ship them to a store near you. After all, people want to eat the food – but don’t want to see where it comes from – then accuse hunters of being barbaric slayer’s of innocence when they take down an animal that lived a great life and died providing for a family.
But I digress with my endless rant – The bottom line is – when I walk into a Target, I feel like they are an anti-gun, anti-hunting company. Funny, coming from a company called “Target” with a bulls-eye as a logo.
You are vaguely right on why MDA thinks that target will cave. Target is WalMart for liberal urbanites. They carry same goods as Wally World in fancier packages. However, your rant on food is stupid. You sound like a gun grabbing hipster who will pay twice the price because it says organic. I bet you go to Whole Foods.
Target is not anti gun. I have open carried a hangun in Target many times. The Texas commados will probably get that changed. I am tired of hearing about how great Texas is for gun owners. They are all hat an no cattle. Texas is really in the lower third of states in terms of gun rights. All you refugees should come down to Virginia so we can elect pro Second Amendment Republicans to state wide office. Texas will stumble on and maybe make it to 21st Century in terms of gun rights. In the meantime Texans ought to be more humble and stick to the public square.
Quality Assessment. Thanks. I don’t know what “Whole Foods” are – but I do go to “Sprouts” – an organic food store. I’m more into farmers market’s (or my own grown food) than organics. That however was not the point I was making. I made the point that Target doesn’t have any hunting equipment. I also was making the point that food you buy in the store is diseased, genetically engineered, nutrient free garbage. Food that you hunt however is the opposite. I also made an indirect point that most urban dwellers are very disconnected from where the food comes from and what is quality food and what isn’t.
BTW, unsubstantiated assertion that a statement or comment is “stoopid” is not conducive of intelligent discussion. Also, what I sound like to you is of little merit to anyone.
Send OCT a message. They’re just hurting the cause
If the OTC et. al. groups aren’t losing anything or costing the movement anything. The proof? The first thing anyone’s going to demand in the face of danger is protection, that is, more cops on the street. Yet, you hear no call for that. The second thing would be counter protests. Except for Moms Demand Attention, there’s virtually nil out there.
The fact is that open carry demonstrations, whether in organized groups or by individuals, have been going on for years. The outcome has been a spreading and accelerating of firearms freedoms across the country for years. Now, I’m not arguing that the OC angle has caused this particular effect; but I am saying that this particular effect exists at least in spite of the OC activity. So the alarm expressed currently is greatly overblown.
It isn’t the range-of-the-moment, supposed PR stumbles that the anti-OC crowd abjures. What really irks the anti-OC members of the firearms owning community is twofold:
1.) On the one hand, the anti-OC’ers are uncomfortable because they don’t want to be a conscripted spokesperson for open carry. When everyone who knows they’re a firearms owner turns to them for explanation of these demonstrators, their motivations and intentions, they feel put on the spot. After all, if these silent, compliant firearms owners had the guts speak out and stand up for their rights, they’d be out there on the front lines themselves marching with their long guns, too. That brings us to the second part of their opposition.
2.) These OC demonstrators remind the subservient firearms owners of who they really are. The subservient ones are just meek people who fancifully think that American exceptionalism is a natural endowment bequeathed to them by heritage and which can never be taken. So it’s ok if they personally don’t have the gumption to defend and extend their rights because, after all, somebody else will always do the heavy lifting anyway and it’ll all work out in the end. OC demonstrators smash that rickety self-delusion with no more than a venti latte and a lemon loaf, and that’s deeply distressing to the anti-OC firearms owners.
So, the subservient ones brood in long, unmoving silences, or long-winded, unconvincing blog posts, about how naïve and reckless the OC demonstrators are and how prudent and patient they are. Nice. It’s easy to demonize the OC demonstrations when you cannot envision how you benefit from them.
Jonathan in Houston:
Invincible ignorance is ugly.
If you would even bother to read posts before blathering on with a long winded, poorly written comment, you would realize that what many of us object to are the actions of the Chipotle Ninja types going tactical retard, entering private businesses, with their weapons unslung, holding them at the low ready, thinking they are making a statement that is in any way helpful.
The only statement they are making is, “Look at us, we are idiots.” And, “Here you go, anti-gun crowd, we have provided you all the ammunition with to shoot us to pieces.”
Thinking…try it sometime. It helps.
F you and the holy high horse you rode in on. You keep insulting people, they respond, then everyone’s comments get deleted. Come up with a sound argument or shut the F up. You’re contributing zilch here.
Wait… You just said what to who????
I am all for the open carry. Guys come on an assault rifle? If you have a hand gun it would do the same job of protecting you, if you need more than 3 bullets to stop or hit a target then you should not own a gun at all. To this mom’s group trying to stop people from there given right. It is not right at all, they have every right to carry a weapon. However they could use some kind of discretion.
“If you have a hand gun it would do the same job of protecting you”
Open carry of hand guns is ILLEGAL there…that is exactly why they are protesting in this manner. They are protesting a bad law. Like their method or not, agree with what they are doing or not, but please at least understand WHAT they are doing.
It’s almost as if people just enjoy posting comments without bothering to understand the context of the article.
“if you need more than 3 bullets to stop or hit a target then you should not own a gun at all. “
Major league fail.
So, 3 round mags should be the limit, huh?
There have been MANY gun fights where more than three rounds have been fired by the good guy.
This statement has to be a joke, or some sort of sarcasm that I missed.
Clown Militia sighting
Why are they always picking the soccer mom hotspots (skinny vanilla lattes and chicken burrito bowls) and getting peoples’ panties all in a bunch rather than going into the Ghetto and making their point there? Ohhhh, its because they’ll be outgunned and they’re too scared to be around anyone but white bread soccer moms.
Q. Why would anyone carry a rifle in Target?
A. Let me preface that by saying that question is completely irrelevant — and it IS — in the face of the fact that it is legal to do so. That’s as far as that conversation needs to go because that is quite literally the only thing under the Sun that matters. “Because they can” is all the justification need now, ever needed, and ever will be needed.
I will go on further to say that anyone who doesn’t “like” seeing the open-carry of rifles can go ahead and leave the store. These people aren’t intimidating anyone, either. There hasn’t been any verifiable brandishing reporting in the lamestream “news” media and nobody’s even being arrested for it for that matter. It’ just not happening. Any perceived “feelings” of intimidation lie squarely in the feeble minds of the anti’s who, coincidentally, share the exact same mind-set with all of the nay-sayers here and elsewhere.
No one is even being “forced” to take sides in this debate until the anti’s come into the picture anyway.
And yet, the reality is that toting a long gun into these establishments is a sure political LOSER. The question is, why do it? What is the goal? To piss off the opposition you are trying to educate? To have laws passed that prohibit such behavior? Or to strut around like an arrogant, insecure prick, thumbing your nose at ‘tha man’?
Wisdom should not be a dirty word.
“the reality is”
This is said a lot but seems nothing more than emotional bleating to me.
They are protesting a very specific point: the absence of legal handgun open carry in Texas.
If Texas gets legal handgun open carry in the next legislative session, as some are predicting, than your “reality” will be shown to be fantasy. They will (though not alone) have achieved their political goal.
In other words….it completely remains to be seen if this is a political failure or success.
“If Texas gets legal handgun open carry in the next legislative session, as some are predicting, than your “reality” will be shown to be fantasy. They will (though not alone) have achieved their political goal.”
I think the rational email and letter writers and the phone callers will have done just as much if not MUCH more to sway the legislators than a bunch of attention-seekers to bring the subject to the floor. Did YOU write or call to make your opinion known?
Perhaps they have, and I’ll buy your point 100%.
But, the fact would remain in that case that there is no evidence supporting the oft cried claim that the rifle OC demonstrators “hurt the cause.”
I’m not saying they are NOT hurting the cause, but that there is no evidence, one way or another, for it – other than MDA getting a headline or two. Now, the problem I have with that being “hurting the cause” is a lot of the same folks commenting here about this, and giving MDA free ammo, are the ones saying MDA is irrelevant whenever an MDA related article is posted.
So…which is it? If they are irrelevant, then we don’t care if they get free ammo. If they are important enough to worry about giving free ammo, then TTAG should post what they are up to.
But, then again…MDA claims victory where there is none, and a lot of people know that…so, if they get some free play from the OCT boys…does THEIR claim have any lasting traction?
In other words…the punchline is that the dynamics of this is VERY complicated and nuanced, and it’s nowhere as simple as “I don’t like OC of rifles, therefore I’m justified in saying they should not do this because it hurts our larger cause.”
I have not called in TX because I do not live there (and thus suppose my comment would be ignored). I do correspond with my legislative representatives on gun rights in my own state.
As, I believe, we all should.