Are you one of America’s 25 million or so owners of what the NSSF likes to call modern sporting rifles? Yes, that’s an accurate term, but most of us know of these firearms by their colloquial names such as AR-15 or AK47. Anyway, those of us who own one — or a few — probably had no idea at all of their fearsome capabilities. Well, not until a true expert came along and laid out for us how fiendishly deadly these weapons are that we have lurking in our safes.
For that, we can thank an expert like US Marine Col. (Ret) Craig Tucker. He’s the man who California Attorney General Rob Bonta turned to when he needed an expert witness to help defend the Golden State’s ban on “assault weapons.” And we can thank our lucky stars that the legal eagles who work for AG Bonta found him.
Without Col. Tucker’s decades of first-hand experience and expertise, how would we have known that a single .223/5.56 round from an AR-15 can actually cleave a man in two?
Thanks to TTAG contributor Kostas Moros for spotting the relevant passages in Tucker’s affidavit for the court in Rupp v. Bonta . . .
One of the “expert” reports the state filed in Rupp last month is just….wow.
Read it at the link below, but I’ll also give you some excerpts. Starting with:https://t.co/zNEZTtQU93 pic.twitter.com/vpmV6oO4HL
— Kostas Moros (@MorosKostas) February 11, 2023
Imagine our good luck that the California Attorney General managed to find an actual military truth-teller, practically a whistle-blower who’s brave enough and willing to finally expose the true nature of the nefarious weapon of war that is the AR-15 semi-automatic rifle.
This is a design, after all, that includes horribly deadly features like…a rifled barrel. And a pistol grip! Don’t forget the pistol grip.
Reading through the Colonel’s affidavit, we were surprised he didn’t mention barrel shrouds, but that was probably just an oversight.
Col. Tucker was kind enough to translate all of this ballistic jargon and detail into language the average unsophisticated, non-military person can easily understand. Boiling it all down, he explained for the court that the AR-15 is strictly an offensive weapon, only used for killing as many people at a time as possible with little use at all as a defensive weapon. It’s basically useless as a defensive firearm.
As just about every battle-hardened member of the military brass knows, for your self-defense needs on the battlefield, you need an M9 handgun.
Remember, this was his sworn testimony given under penalty of perjury that it’s “true and correct.”
Given the “quality” of the information Col. Tucker provided for the court, you might question how much actual experience he really had with M4 and AR-15 platform firearms. But please, cut him some slack. It seems the Colonel spent a lot of his time in the military engaged in other extracurricular activities that might have kept him off the rifle range where he could have learned even more about that particular weapon platform.
After reviewing the Colonel testimony, the plaintiffs’ expert witness wasn’t really impressed with some of the “facts” that were provided . . .
Now you know where much of the garbage comes from that’s spouted by politicians and members of the Civilian Disarmament Industrial Complex, and then is regurgitated by ignorant, complicit members of the media.
Didn’t we already have the military small arms expert testify about the full semi-automatic AR-15?
BTW, Californicatia is still trying to justify weapons bans based on public safety. Judge Benitez demanded testimony on historical analogs to weapons bans.
Lieutenant General Mark Hertling explains that he is going to use the gun in “full semi-automatic” mode,
It was difficult to take many officers seriously when they had actual deployments to warzones (results may vary by assignment) it’s going to be pre 911 hilarious levels of clown show when many of the gwot veteran officers retire/are fully removed.
This one clearly rose to their level of incompetence by playing the political game. Above a certain rank officers must play politics.
And this one is also using their head as a hat rack. Was he promised an extra large pack of crayons?
“Lieutenant General Mark Hertling explains that he is going to use the gun in “full semi-automatic” mode,…”
Up front and center jarhead blowbag benedict tucker…Is that all a .223 round can do? Sounds seriously subpar compared to a silent $2 harbor freight ice pick or a Samuri Sword or any one of the millions of two ton motor vehicles running around that can flatten people like pancakes.
Perhaps tucker would care to describe what tyrants and criminals throughout history do and have done to millions of unarmed citizens subjected to Gun Control?
who knew that the old (slightly modified) .222 could rise to this level of lethality?
here’s a little more on the qualifications of “expert” Col. Tucker.
Colonel relieved for ‘inappropriate relationship:
Thanx for the link.
Dipped his pen in the company ink…no bueno. Probably cost him dearly.
Based off of his time in Al Anbar Province, I’d say that he managed Marines in combat…maybe supervised, but can’t say that he LED Marines. At the time, it was heavily into reconstruction and civil-military ops…until Fallujah. So yeah, he has “combat experience” of sorts. Fobbit–sitting on base and watching from his desk while his men went outside the wire every day. And is now using that to build political points with the CA GOV…possibly fishing for a new career.
“BTW, California is still trying to justify weapons bans based on public safety.”
This is the two step test rejected by SCOTUS. This so-called “expert’s” testimony means nothing after Bruen, which is probably lucky for CA since his idiocy would ruin whatever chance they had of winning anyway.
The “two-step” analysis remains an effective means of enacting gun control laws. Every law based on “two-step” must be challenged in court. Meanwhile, the law may remain in effect until the entire appeals process runs its course. And then, the loop repeats.
30 pieces of silver will buy a lot of ‘experts’.
That’s a lot of silver crayons. Where did they dig this guy up? M9 is barely relevant on the battlefield let alone sufficient for much beyond base law enforcement/ telling local traffic they are in the wrong lane or following too closely.
A few years ago, I was reading an article written by a surgeon who had served in the military during the Middle East campaign, and had operated on countless wounded soldiers. The focus of his particular article was to highlight the importance of bullet diameter as a primary reason for bleedouts, as (in his medical opinion) a wound created by a .30-cal projectile will not close up due to the hydrostatic shock it suffers during impact, while a smaller wound created by a .22-cal often does.
He recounted two surgeries he performed, one on a soldier who had been brought in with six GSWs by 5.56, and another with a single 9mm GSW, both to the thoracic. He said shot placement is key, as the former soldier survived, while the latter suffered a direct hit to a vital organ and died on the operating table.
I think that surgeon may have words with the “military expert’s” declaration that a single 5.56 rips a body in half.
Placement penetration then a bunch of other things that vary in importance depending on the situation. Best answer I have heard for most ballistic “which is better” questions is “It depends”. With that said hard to go wrong with 50bmg being able to put something alive down.
I have, several times, when someone claims that 5.56 is a super-deadly-double-scary-uber-round, suggested that they round up a couple dozen or so survivors of a center mass 5.56 NATO hit and a couple dozen survivors of a center mass 7.62 NATO hit. They can’t seem to find the latter.
At what distance? Obviously less a factor for 7.62. For inside 100m for most barrel lengths 5.56 is plenty deadly.
seems to have a fair amount of smack out to about 200 metres…falls off pretty quickly after that…not a good open country weapon…as they found out in Afghanistan
The M4 was great for CQB in and around Fallujah. But the longer ranges of AFG? Not so much. Which is why a lot of units brought back the M14 using the Enhance Battle Rifle (EBR) chassis. Highly effective, but not easy to pull out when dismounting from a HMMWV or MRAP while under fire. But that’s why each vic had a crew-served weapon with a ring mount gunner.
Yup, another “expert”…….all bought and paid for!!
Thanks to the Colonel’s testimony, I know understand how cannons work – the rifling in their barrels makes the projectile tumble and the tumbling causes the destruction of the target (usually an innocent target).
Well I’m just glad *SOMEONE* was paying attention to the good Colonol. Those several millimeter sized canons are vicious.
A millimeter is either a MILLION Meters or a THOUSAND Meters, so he must know whereof he speaks. I can’t remember which it is.
But hey, SCIENCE!
What do they blow the lungs out or something?
“What do they blow the lungs out or something?”
.223/5.56 rounds blow a lung clean out of the body, and clear into the next county.
If they don’t vaporize you where you stand!
No wonder these reports are always such breathless rushed affairs.
This colonel retired from the Marines rather than face a court martial for conduct unbecoming …. Leave it to the state of California to have a dishonored Marine be their expert witness.
For blind guess as to why going with zipper malfunction.
http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?24282-Colonel-relieved-for-%E2%80%98inappropriate-relationship%E2%80%99 assuming article is correct it looks like I may be correct at least in part.
from everything I can gather, that is correct.
Will give false and erroneous testimony for foodstamps?
Guys like this are the absolute biggest shitbag in the Military. It’s no surprise he is an oath breaker. Unfortunately a lot in power in the Military think this way, look at Covid. Hope he get prosecuted for contempt if he is on the stand among other things.
Sex offender? He has qualified to join Dacian’s antifa troop.
hard to explain how a taliban can stay upright when shot with this rd…but they have…or why the army is now experimenting a larger caliber…
Didn’t God settle this some time ago?
He gave Moses the tablets stating “Thou SHALT NOT bear False Witness”.
This Colonel Jerk-Weed is lying. There seems to be no penalty for that around here anymore.
I would caution him that he will have to justify his sinful conduct at a later date.
“Good Luck in the Contest” Colonel!
You know, that’s really the take-away here, isn’t it? Just pure, outright, black lies. Here’s why they do it, as spoken by a politician in Frank Miller’s excellent Sin City.
“Power don’t come from a badge or a gun. Power comes from lying. Lying big, and gettin’ the whole damn world to play along with you. Once you got everybody agreeing with what they know in their hearts ain’t true, you’ve got ’em by the balls.”- Senator Rourke.
That colonel is a damned LIAR. Obviously he has NO experience in combat or first-hand information on the AR15/M16 5.56 caliber firearms. Even less on the effects on a body struck by a .223/5.56mm round. “Decapitate”? “Severing the upper body from the lower body”? PUH-lease, bitch!
Some of us have experience with these weapons in the field and have seen first-hand the effects. The .223/5.56x45mm round is so ineffective it is illegal to deer hunt with in most all States. This guy is a piece of work! One wonders that he can sleep at night.
“This guy is a piece of work! One wonders that he can sleep at night.”
Give me enough money and beer, and I will sleep quite well after jestifying.
(Pssssttt. Should I say it? Ok….”jestify” is not a typo.)
they needed a shill…apparently they found one…disgrace to the uniform…
Maybe he wasn’t lying. Perhaps when they asked him a question about the “M16” he thought they were asking about the “16 Inch Main Battery” on the USS Missouri.
That right there is the answer to his BS. Why is it illegal to hunt with .223 in some states? Why, because of insufficient killing power. Given that deer is a thin skinned game, as are coyotes, we’d see a lot of carcasses blown in half if what he said were true. Now it is true that that guy up in Kenosha had the bone in his arm shattered, but his arm was not blown off. Nor were the other two guys blown in half. And we haven’t even mentioned Vegas. Too many real world examples to count that disestablish his “opinion.”
You are 100% correct. The colonel stated that AR-15 rifle barrels are designed to make the bullets tumble when fired. THIS IS FALSE! For simple proof of this inaccuracy fire AR-15 at targets. How come that the result is neat round holes? If a too heavy bullet for the barrel’s twist, then you MAY get tumbling. I have experienced both conditions with the same rifle. Hansen ammunition tumbled every time (too heavy for the twist). With Israeli ammo (too heavy for the twist), not a single bullet tumbled. Also note that there are MANY .223 Remington bolt action rifles (civilian) that can fire more potent ammunition than the AR-15. 5.65mm (NATO) = .223 Remington (civilian). True 5.56mm (NATO) is only available in Full Metal Jacket Bullets. The .223 Remington is available in a variety of Hollow Point as well as Full Metal Bullets. The AR-15 rifle started it’s life with a 1:14″ rifling twist using a 55 grain bullet. Later, the twist was changed to 1:12″. The current 5.56x45mm specification is 1:7″ twist and 62 grain bullet. However, this twist can use up to 77 grain bullets. Contemporary civilian .223 Remington rifles are being manufactured in 1:9″ twist barrels and can use up to 80 grain bullets. .223 Remington ammunition can be safely used in 5.56x45mm NATO chambered rifles but, although 5.56x45mm ammunition can be fired in a .223 Remington chambered rifle, it is deemed unsafe due to the shorter chamber leade in the .223 Remington rifle. I served two combat tours in Vietnam, and have experienced M16-A1 rifles fired on full auto many times – sorry about that colonel.
The .223/5.56 cartridge will tumble as the bullet transitions from the less dense medium of air to the denser medium of anything else, as will every other modern bullet. It is not caused by any special machining with the barrel of these modern sport rifles as Col. Tucker states. It is physics. Otherwise known as science. The damage caused by a .223/5.56 cartridge would be the same if it was discharged from an M4, M-16, AR-15, or a bolt action CZ rifle. These so called “experts” of Col. Tucker’s ilk conflate information to such an extent that these experts can be viewed as being full of bovine excrement. Col. Tucker is either a paid off liar for the state of California, a political disinformation actor with an agenda, or a misinformed military officer that thinks more of his opinion than he does of the facts. I will never state which branch of our military that he is in as not to cast aspersions on that branch. I am sure that that branch is now ashamed to have Col. Tucker in it.
It’s not even really a tumble as people imagine that word to mean. The bullet is cavitating and yawing. Depending on where it is on its ballistics, it may yaw and fragment. In other phases of the flight, if the round is not yawing it is highly likely to be a through and through with no yaw or cavitation. The idea that the round tumbles (in the way folks think that means) is incorrect.
Of course, this level of understanding of the ballistics and terminal effects is fairly uncommon. And that’s fine, we just need to dispel the crazy myths about a very lightweight projectile. The M855 (or civilian equivalents) is 62 grains. There are 7000 grains in a pound. Thus, the most common 5.56 projectile weighs about .14 ounces. It simply doesn’t have enough kinetic energy to do what Tucker is claiming.
Eric, that was an excellent explanation of terminal ballistics. I agree that the yaw factor may explain the “tumble” myth. That and bullets separating at the cannilur as they yaw. I always wondered, If the 5.56 bullet tumbles on impact; why doesn’t the .222 Remington magnum? Not many remember that old caliber, but if you like .223/5.56/AR-15s, you should. Just firearms trivia.
“It simply doesn’t have enough kinetic energy to do what Tucker is claiming.”
For a single .223 round to separate the body like he claims would mean the kinetic energy would be greater than any nuclear weapon energy released in a nuclear weapon detonation. It would require the energy bonds holding the body molecules together to be obliterated and that simply can not be done with the single .223 round he claims.
This is a version of another tall tale. My favorite version of this tall tale is the one where anti-gun has claimed a single round from an AR-15 vaporizes a person so instantly and completely that not even bones, or hair, personal belongings, clothing, or even DNA exists. For that to have happened would mean the energy released by the impact of a single .223/5.56 round would be so great time-space would be torn apart and the earth would cease to exist. Anti-gun used that one trying to justify their numbers on bodies in mass shootings, when the body count didn’t add up and they were challenged on it that’s the explanation they gave for why there were bodies missing to back up their claims. One democrat politician even used it in a press conference.
a medium power cartridge…for medium sized game…Stoner adopted it because it was adequate for close combat and light enough to be used in his new rifle where weight reduction was to be placed at a premium…
I know full well this expert has no clue as it regards ‘assault’ weapons.
He failed to mention the fully semi automatic revolver with the 50 clip magazines and a bayonet lug and attached tampon dispenser next to the 60 million candle power flashlight.
Dude … you forgot the chainsaw bayonette.
NEVER forget the chainsaw bayonette!
“NEVER forget the chainsaw bayonette!”
You got that right.
COGS rule… Lancer (modern) kicks ass…
Anyone heard of Cole’s Law?
(it’s thinly chopped cabbage)
Thanks, Sam. Now I want a brisket sandwich.
No flamethrower or chainsaw bayonet? Weak.
He is saying what the exec branch wants him to say. There is no way this guy will even think about seeing a perjury charge in his life for this testimony nor a serious cross examination of his statements outside of this trial and the court of public opinion.
I hope they get him immediately disqualified.
colloquial names such as AR-15 or AK47. OR the more common name (used by the gun grabbers) the dreaded “Assault Rifle”…
He was an officer. Lots of turds float to the top.
This was is a real floater.
It will take a lot of paper and several flushes to force it down.
Jeepers, with such incredible destructive power in every soldiers hands one wonders why the US keeps getting its ass kicked.
“…one wonders why the US keeps getting its ass kicked.”
It’s “Have Gun – Will Travel”. Not, “Have Gun – Permitted to use It.”
Crayon eating jarhead lives up to his reputation. News at 11
Article from July 2017 written by Col. Tucker. https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-nra-has-entered-the-province-of-cowards?ref=author
Of course he lied. That’s all anti-gun has left now for the firearm, lies.
“Remember, this was his sworn testimony given under penalty of perjury that it’s “true and correct.”
Hmmm… to be more correct though, even though he did lie he was giving expert opinion having been ‘qualified’ to do so by the courts acceptance of him as an ‘expert’, not testimony as to fact as a non-expert witness. Generally, expert opinion is provided a blanket immunity for expert witnesses. But ‘expert witnesses’ he can be held civilly liable when they perform ‘negligently’ and the ‘lawyers’ that put forth that ‘negligent’ expert witness can be held civilly liable as well.
That coyote I shot a few nights ago must have been from some other planet then. All the scary, super dangerous 5.56 surplus ball ammunition did to him was punch a nice neat hole through his heart. Didn’t severe him into separate parts or vaporize any part of him. Didn’t even chop up his body into unrecognizable bits.
Could it be the good colonel is either lying or just full of crap.
Perhaps the California AG should find someone who has a bit more experience with firearms than a desk jockey supply officer who’s only fired his weapon at paper to qualify once a year.
Several years ago, I got a great deal on 1000 Sierra 40 gr hollow-points in .224. I’ve played around with a few different loads for those and they will do some notable damage to a coyote, but still not tear it to bits, obviously. They will, however, kinda detonate a prairie dog.
this situation is ripe for a counter-expert….to come in to counter the so-called “expert”
So law enforcement in CA should be happy with just pistols and have no need of these deadly killing machines?
Most Police Officers and most Military Members know little or nothing about firearms and are far from experts. Only about 5% of the military are the tip of the spear or trigger pullers and even those folks know little to nothing about wound ballistics and bullet design.
Despite what people may think, the military is full of liberals, although I would guess they are not in the majority as most enlisted men come from the mid-west and southern states.
Most “expert” witnesses are not. Besides the fact that the M4/M16 are in current military service since the 1960’s illustrates that they are in common use and 100% appropriate for service in the unorganized militia which includes all able bodied men, age 17 to 45 years. This is according to Title 10 U.S. Code § 246 – Militia: composition and classes, which is still the law of the land.
absolutely correct. In a tank company, where everyone is trigger pullers, only the company master gunner has deep training in ballistics, ammunition design, etc. Even then, it’s focused primarily on the tank main gun and ammunition. I still, as a former master gunner, know more about this stuff than 99% of the soldiers in the Army. And then my own curiousity led me into small arms.
But most soldiers really only know the myths and legends of the Army, which are much different than reality.
Eric, I was light airborne infantry. You guys in tanks scared the living shit out of me. Still, I wouldn’t get in one of those steel boxes for all the money in the world. You are brave.
One of my law school classmates was a U.S. Army tank officer (circa 1983), stationed in West Germany. He got a promotion to Captain, and then got his standing orders — that if the SHTF, his command was to head east and hold up the bad guys long enough for neutron bombs to be launched on top of all of them.
Shortly afterwards, he saw an invitation for officers who might want to go to law school . . . .
As Willie/Joe observed approx 80yr ago “A moving foxhole attracts the eye”.
the main justification for this weapon for militia use is that it fires the same ammunition as the military and is similar in form and function…thus eliminating any need for specialized training
And it’s cheap to shoot..
“Don’t listen to anything that Craig Tucker says. He was my CO in RCT 7 during OIF II. When he got back from deployment, he became Coyote 6 at TTECG. He could’ve been a general, but he decided to stick his pathetic little wiener in a female captain and got caught. He was made to quietly retire. It doesn’t matter how many combat deployments he had or how many Marines he commanded. He has zero credibility.”
“You can build a thousand bridges, and no one will ever call you a bridge builder. But fuck just one goat, and your a goat fucker forever.”
Haven’t heard that joke in 15 years and given the time frames involved I figured zipper control was a good bet for his retirement.
OK, I LOLed.
I wondered how a O6 came to retire in 2006. VERY unusual.
If they’re gonna blather on about how destructive that bullet is, I hope they don’t find out about the 50 grain Speer TNT pills that my little .223 Contender likes to dispense. It’s kinda a pain to set the teeny fuses, but if you can manage it, Katy bar the door!
Tumbling bullets. That wife’s tale is still around? They told us you could shoot a man in the foot and would exit his shoulder. Yeah. Maybe. If he were prone and you were prone behind him. What I really wanted to know was where they got 5.56/.223 with that much penetration. When I went into basic (Harmony Church) I pointed out that I had a buddy about three hours south that hunted with a Mini-14. I had to explain that it was the same caliber. I went on to say that he seldom had an exit wound (whitetail) and that we never saw evidence of a bullet tumbling. I’ve pissed people off about firearms and ballistics for a very long time. Now, decapitation by firearms is a real thing. Seen it three times. Once by centerfire rifle. 7mm-08. 140 gr SP. Twice by shotgun. 12 ga rifled slug and 16 ga bird shot. All at very close range. Very impressive. Of course, a high intensity CF rifle caliber with SP ammunition will take most of a man’s head off at any range. The cranium just can’t contain the pressure I guess.
Never saw tumbling from 5.56 (bit young for the Vietnam era), fragmentation on the other hand absolutely especially from M193. I do wonder how soft point would fare as that could be a cheaper/similar effective alternative for various defense/hollow point options.
SAFE, you are correct. 193 will fragment. Completely different thing. I’ve won money betting that FMJ 193 blows up on laminated windshields.
Won money on 855 going through with minimal deflection so gotta love assumptions
I was in Walmart last week and always check out the old ammo cabinets. They were loaded with .30-06 and .308 and tumble or not, the 5.56 or .223 isn’t even in the same class. Try and walk off a center mass hit from a .30-06, I bet you won’t. The stupid hypocrisy of Walmart.
I have boatload of M193 and am happy with it for target shooting.
If I had to shoot a living thing with a AR platform I’m going with M193.
I have never been impressed with M855, I think it’s a lot of hype for a rifle platform but does well in a SAW.
Twist rate is 1/8 or 1/9 depending on the rifle and I can shoot 77 Grain and there is no keyholing. Walmart also had A LOT of .22LR.
855 does a few things pretty well like barrier penetration, not deflecting as much off windshields helmets etc but mostly it’s great at defeating plastic rifle armor (uhmwpe) that is very light and comfortable for long term use. With that said icepick wounds once it loses velocity and has trouble with ceramic and steel armor (even ar500 generally stops it let alone actual armor grade steel).
With a SAW you just send 100 rounds more at the target with M855.
An M4 not so much. The whole M193 being deflected by tree leaves is BS.
The M193 doing a lot mare damage to soft tissue isn’t.
A clean shot on soft tissue with M855 is usually going to be a through and through, M193 not so much, nasty wounding ability.
Distance plays a huge role, over 200 yards the M855 is better at barrier penetration but as you move closer they are about the same.
Inside of 50-100 yards the M193 isn’t going to deflect off of a windshield.
It may get messed up but it’s punching through.
Most front LE vehicle doors are able to stop any 5.56 if so equipped and
.308 if equipped with level IV but most departments are too cheap to upgrade. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSD-IVHa8tU
“Never saw tumbling from 5.56 (bit young for the Vietnam era), fragmentation on the other hand absolutely especially from M193. ”
What is wrong with you people? Being made dead from having your head blown off by a .22 calibre bullet is much worse dead, than being made dead by having a .44 bullet passing cleanly through your chest cavity. Same with having your lung blown clear out of your body from a 9mm bullet. It matters how you get dead.
the rd tends to disintegrate when it hits something solid…will enter one side of a concrete block but not exit the other…had that experience more than once….and it loses energy faster out of a shorter barrel
Tumbling bullets. That wife’s tale is still around? They told us you could shoot a man in the foot and would exit his shoulder.
Unfortunately I was in a position to actually witness that “wives tale” some of the weirdest exit wounds you’ll ever see… bullet hit a bone it WOULD change direction, hit a gook in the leg it might come out his asshole…
Madd, never said it couldn’t happen. The exception proves the rule. I said its bullshit. And it is.
I said its bullshit. And it is.
Fuck wow, if YOU said so, it must be so, but how the fuck do YOU know if you weren’t there, I saw that shit for 3 fuckin years and have no reason to lie about it. Personally, I carried an M14, but I saw a few hundred bodies over time with those “bullshit” crazy exit wounds…
Wasn’t the tumbling thing more about twist rate of barrel being mismatched with bullet length and later changed over to accommodate tracers or am I mixing up actual events with fuddlore?
mismatched with bullet length and later changed over to accommodate tracers
Don’t know about twist rate issues or changes but guys were using tracers in M16s in 68…
Madd, I apologize. Maybe I wasn’t clear. I’m reading a book and commenting. Multitasking, if you will. I didn’t mean to say that you were incorrect in what you saw and experienced. Only to say in my experience the tumbling bullet thing is bullshit. Still, bullets can do weird stuff. I remember a hunting accident we worked. Guy shot a deer. There it was. Dead. So was his buddy. His friend was a distance away. Not even line of sight. Bullet exited the deer, hit an oak sappling and deflected. Again, I apologize if you were offended. It was not intentional.
You only know what you know.
“Tumbling bullets. That wife’s tale is still around?”
Didn’t one hit JFK and then tumble for 5 years, later striking Bobby Kennedy?
Thats what I heard.
No – it hit Ted Kennedy’s steering wheel causing him to run his car into Chappaquiddick creek.
They lie continually. They don’t care about “gun violence,” or people killed or suicided with guns. They just don’t care. But judging by the pre-genocidal rhetoric coming out of leftist publications, they do want to kill us. It’s as obvious as the sun in the sky they hate us and want us dead. That is why they want to disarm us. The old pattern is repeating itself: disarmament, then death.
Remember when (then) Lt. Col. Petraeus was hit by a 5.56 round because a soldier tripped and accidentally fired his M-16 at Petraeus’s chest? Apparently through the use of modern medical techniques, doctors were able to attach his lower body, making him a whole person again.
I remember when Joe Biden was driving his 18 wheeler up Iwo Jima and was struck by a battlefield nuclear weapon. After firing both barrels of his shotgun (to warn off the entire Japanese army) he stitched the lower portion of his body to the lower portion of a donkey. After that he continued to win the war. At this time he was all ass!
I guess this “Colonel” forgot about his oath to “support and defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic”. I think some needs to remind him of it.
“I guess this “Colonel” forgot about his oath to “support and defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic”. ”
The Colonel is upholding his oath; you are the domestic enemy.
Think about it.
I guess this “Colonel” forgot about his oath
Politics (and money) seems to have that effect on some…
using the uniform or his former position to imply credibility is a dishonorable act….
“A single round is capable of severing the upper body from the lower body, or decapitation.”
Col. Tucker makes the excellent case for Kalifornia banning M16’s/AR15’s from use by state and local law enforcement.
What difference does it make, dead is dead no matter where the round is placed.
According to Col. Tucker it makes a big difference.
“What difference does it make, dead is dead no matter where the round is placed.”
It makes a lot of difference. Ugly dead is worse than neatly dead. Being ugly dead means the dead one felt more pain than the neatly dead one.
When you are getting made dead, feelings matter.
When you are getting made dead, feelings matter.
But not for long…
I have said it many times, but it bears repeating: My 5.56 NATO chambered AR-15 is the *least* powerful center-fire rifle I own.
well,..better than an M-1 carbine…[unless you’re using hollow points]….then it’s a bit closer…
I thought lying to Congress was a felony? Why is nobody being prosecuted for that these days?
So is lying to a court, which is what he did. Can’t prosecute it though, because there isn’t enough jail space for all the liars running the system, let alone the liars using the system.
thought lying to Congress was a felony? Why is nobody being prosecuted for that these days
Only punishable IF you are a Republican and Dems are in charge…
If “the AR-15 is strictly an offensive weapon, only used for killing as many people at a time as possible with little use at all as a defensive weapon.” then why do cops need them?
And, whatever will a poor soldier do when he has to defend himself?
I hope he uses a fully-automatic weapon and not a civilian semi-auto.
Well, yes, but I was more focused on the silliness of saying that an AR pattern rifle (to eliminate the civ/mil distinction) is not a “defensive” weapon.
most people who buy these guns have no offensive intent…just want to keep a threat at a safe distance…sounds like a defensive use to me…..
I once shot the head off of a G.I.Joe with my Montgomery Ward .22 rifle.
Over/under on the percentage of people reading that who have ever been inside a Montgomery Ward? (One of my early 20’s crap jobs was in a MonkeyWard tire shop, glad they’re gone TBH. Also, I have a Glenfield from Sears)
Or how about “G.I.Joe?” It made it cool for boys to play with dolls — ahem, I mean “action figures.”
“It’s not a doll!!”
At one time Montgomery Ward was giving Sears a run for their money.
A friend of mines first job was making cold calls for Montgomery Ward credit cards.
When I was a teen and they wired up our suburb for cable we were off to Montgomery Ward to buy a “cable ready state of the art” 27″ TV and a sofa that would nowadays would cost you probably more then $2500 just for the sofa. You could fit five people on that thing, it was big.
My Ruger 10/22 was bought at Service Merchandise.
As for “action figures” I had all of the “Planet of the Apes” ones until my brother started setting them on fire. I was like 3 or 4 and my brother was 15 or 16. I do believe those came from Goldblatt’s but I was 3 or 4. That was many moons ago. My brother called them sissy dolls and would torch one when he felt like it.
Put me down for the over.
stores like this relied heavily on catalog sales…until they went away…
No wonder we can’t win a war. This “expert” is an idiot🙃🙄
“I once shot the head off of a G.I.Joe with my Montgomery Ward .22 rifle.”
Your murderous cad, you.
quote————-Are you one of America’s 25 million or so owners of what the NSSF likes to call modern sporting rifles?———–quote
The 5.56mm and 7x69mm military cartridges were invented not as sporting rounds but as military rounds as well as the assault rifles of mass destructions that are chambered for them. They were invented for one purpose and one purpose only i.e. to kill as many people as possible in the shortest amount of time. Neither cartridge is a big game hunting cartridge and neither were never designed to be as such no matter how many lies the Far Right Paramilitary Lunatic Fringe will scream from the rooftops that they are.
It is interesting to note that most of Africa’s Big Game including all of its Big 5 most dangerous game were made almost extinct NOT by Safaris guiding Europe’s super rich or by Elephant ivory hunters but by paid Government Exterminators as well as poor white African Farmers protecting their crops and both groups all used nothing more than single shot weapons and bolt actions rifles proving that this is all you need if you want to hunt any type of big game.
Most all civilized nations have totally outlawed or severely restricted the ownership and use of weapons of mass destruction as they have no legitimate purpose in a civilized society. Those foreign nations have way less homicides and especially mass murders than the ruthless country of Capitalvania who regard life as cheap and expendable and even ignore the safety of their own children at school. You cannot get any more primitive than that. I dare say even Neanderthal Man probably was more protective of his young.
All of this violence in Capitalvania has been made even worse because of the fact that Capitalvania has few social programs to help people in need and it exploits its workers like troglodyte worker slaves as compared to civilized countries that pay higher wages to unskilled workers, have sooner and more lucrative retirement, have affordable National Health Care and have paid for higher education as well as free tutoring for primary and secondary students, and have many more worker retraining programs and have subsidized housing or free housing for people in need. Capitalvanians are forced to live out on the street and beg for food.
Is it any wonder that Capitalvania has already went down the same path that destroyed Ancient Rome???? A bigger majority of Capitalvanians hate their Government even more than did the numbers of Ancient Roman Citizens who hated their Government.
The soothsayer warned Caesar “Beware the Ides of March” and President Abraham Lincoln warned the American people that they would eventually be destroyed from within. President Eisenhower (An old fashioned honorable Republican) warned the American people the “Military Industrial Complex would eventually destroy them all. History repeats itself and for the very same reasons Rome fell but the Roman Empire lasted 1,000 years while Capitalvania lasted only only 247 years.
The Far Right Trumpite/Hitlerite Jackbooted Stormtroopers came close to destroying the U.S. on Jan 6th and it was our very own “Beware the Ides of January”.
Capitalvania has become in recent decades THE SHIT HOLE OF THE INDUSTRIALZED WORLD. I quote Herr Drumpf (the Donald) when he called Africa Countries “Shit Hole Countries” some of which HAVE LOWER INFANT MORTALITY THAN WEST VIRGINIA DOES.
Time grows short for the evil American Empire and time grows short for the entire world as soon food shortages due to global warming will cause many wars and starvation because as I type these lines the planet is burning up under our feet.
“…5.56mm and 7x69mm…”
Your copy/paste thingy mangled some numbers there. Sorry, but that sinks your entire monograph-turned-diatribe, and none of us are going to read it now.
7×69 could be an interesting caliber, TBF. (Good catch)
(Think, 7mm Rem Mag plusPplus )
HE/SHE/IT doesn’t write the “SCRIPT”!!! HE/SHE/IT is “SENT THE SCRIPT” to post on “GUN Threads”!!
As a “PAID TROLL”!!!!
And HE/SHE/IT butt is sore since HE/SHE/IT is a “BRITISH SUBJECT”!!!!
both were sporting cartridges…one is 30 caliber so it had military origins bur then became widely popular as a sporting rd…the other started out as a sporting rd then was upgraded slightly for military use….
Oh, FFS, spend 11 or so seconds googling “Muzzle energy of 5.56 NATO” and “Muzzle energy of 30-06 Springfield.”
Report your findings you ignorant troll.
Come back and explain why the “super-murder-death-kill” ~1200 ft/lb 5.56 is “more powerful” than the “shoot-a-deer-for-dinner-and-perfectly-acceptable-because-the-gun-has-wood” 30-06. (~3000 ft/lb)
You left a few things out dacian, they are called fact, context, and intelligence.
He lacks one and, as a result, does not know what the other two are.
yeah,…really got it wrong this time…..
Typically I read through your tripe and leave it to better spoken people to call your ignorance out.
However, your comment of “They were invented for one purpose and one purpose only i.e. to kill as many people as possible in the shortest amount of time.” was too much for me.
Modern military small arms are designed to wound more than kill. If you kill a combatant in the field, he or she is dead right there. Body pick-up to be scheduled. If you wound a combatant in the field you remove that person and at least three others along with him / her. Those persons being the Medic and litter-bearers. That’s why the major military forces of the world use an intermediate power cartridge as their individual battle rifles. It is also why you do not find snipers around the world using the 5.56 / 5.45 cartridges….instead, the 7.62 and larger diameter cartridges are used for the “One Shot – One Kill” philosophy that guides dedicated snipers.
It appears that the best part of you dribbled down your Mama’s leg.
True, not to mention that one of the principle reasons various armed forces, including the U.S., moved away from major caliber battle rifles to intermediate caliber infantry rifles is one of the most historically significant considerations for infantry troops, that is, *weight*. That’s right folks, 200 rounds of 5.56 NATO weighs roughly *half* of what 200 rounds of 7.62 NATO weighs. (and, around 40% of 200 rounds of 30-06) So, if you want to have your troopers carry around a couple of hundred rounds, give-or-take, and you also want them to carry 49 lbs of other stuff but you also want them to be able to shoot a few bad guys, maybe a few more than they could before, you make the boo-lits lighter. (and, maybe, the rifle too – pop an M-14 on the ole bathroom scale and see what it weighs)
K, everyone got that? The reason the U.S. moved from the M-14 to the M-16 is because the *rifle* is lighter and the *rounds* are lighter so G.I. Joe could carry more sh*t with him into the ole jungles of ‘Nam. No “super-tumble-shredder” tech, no secret “bullet-special-extra-dead” tech, simple, “small weighs less than big” tech.
(Oh, BTW, the 5.56/.223 round was considered to be “just deadly enough” to be adopted. Lots, and I mean “A Lot”, of people thought that it was too anemic to adopt. K)
Soldier’s Load and the Mobility of a Nation by S. L. A. Marshall
The more sh!te you strap to a soldier’s back, the less capable they become. Over the years, we’ve reduced weight through innovation…to turn around and weigh them down with more sh!te. Kevlar is great…ceramic SAPIs help protect, but they are a major Muthaf*cker when getting in/out of vehicles or doing multiple patrols in 120-130 degree temps.
Duncian, are you really that stupid? Never mind 5.56 and 7.62X39 calibers. Every weapon invented by man was meant to kill something. Usually another human. Maybe you heard of Cain and Able. You and that other British dim wit should learn to live in the real world. Got to caution you though. This planet is dangerous.
Worth repeating. Starting with the .22 Short which S&W developed for self defense. Everything above that is kind of semantics.
The 2nd amendment isn’t about poking holes in paper.
Someone is very angry, did your soy milk spoil again?
Hey ID10T. 5.56 was evolved by moving the shoulder on a .222 forward by a quarter inch to increase case capacity. The first rifle chambered was a Remington 788 bolt action used for the development. The .222 Magnum is an analog of the .223/5.56 performance.
And FYI, .308 Winchester was released commercially in 1952 and adopted, with minor changes, as 7.62 NATO in 1954.
Yep when the American Empire ends, you will see a “GLOBAL FASCIST” nations arise and you being a “LOYAL FOLLOWER” will “NOT SAVE YOUR LIFE”!!!
The .30-06 was designed as a military cartridge, yet it is one of the most popular hunting calibers in this country. The .308 was designed as a replacement for the .30-06 as it fed more reliably into automatic rifles. It too is a very popular hunting cartridge. I am not familiar with the 7mm rounds, but at least some were designed as military cartridges. The 7.62 x 39 has been adapted for hunting despite–or sue to–its military heritage as an effective round. The 9mm was designed as a military cartridge too.
Yes, Dacian, rifle cartridges are designed to kill as quickly and as humanely as possible. Water is wet, and a handgun cartridge is capable of killing you quite dead also.
“assault rifles of mass destructions ”
Are you really this [email protected] stupid? I used to th8nk you were an act, a polemicists possibly. But over time I realize you are as stupid as you present yourself to be.
Room temperature IQ, measured in celcius.
Then why do you continue to destroy from within?
because once again you are lying and prove you know nothing
dacian the DUNDERHEAD, There you go again. Twisting facts to fit your agenda. While the 5.56 mm was “CREATED” as a military round, there is no reason in God’s good earth that it cannot be used for other purposes. After all the .30-06 was created as a “military round” but has been used as a hunting round, a target round, etc, since inception.
For the 500th time, the AR and the AK in civilianized versions are NOT “assault rifles”. They are semi-automatic rifles that no military would ever arm its armed forces with.
While you have a point about the single shot rifles that were used in Africa, you are talking about a time when semi-automatic rifles were not even invented. Clearly you have never been hunting when a second round was needed as in feral boar hunting or for that matter any other kind of hunting.
Where is this place you call “Captivania”? IN this country there are plenty of social welfare programs to help the truly needy. Maybe you are referring to people who like to get things the easy way? Rather than earning it the old fashioned way. Unlike you Lefties, we on the right know what a hard day’s work is all about.
Give it up about that “National Health Insurance”. Canada and Great Britain have terrible systems where they have to wait MONTHS for routine procedures. “National Health Insurance” is not the panacea you portray it to be.
Fore your edification, Eisenhower was a political “military” man. He never did a day on the front lines where the job got messy. He was an administrator; hardly a man I would want leading my troops and hardly a leader. More like a pansy REMF.
You know it is a shame you were not born in West Virginia. You might have learned what hard work is all about.
Speaking of Stormtroopers, you seem to have forgotten your ANTIFA and BLM thugs? Remember how they took over parts of American cities in 2020? Seems the right wing folks haven’t ever done anything like that. Including Jan6th.
My ammo must have been defective. No one distengrated or any of this when I shot them.
December 19, 2005
Colonel relieved for ‘inappropriate relationship’
By Gidget Fuentes
Times staff writer
OCEANSIDE, Calif. — A colonel in charge of a training group in California has been relieved for having an “inappropriate relationship” with a female captain, according to a Marine Corps spokesman.
Col. Craig A. Tucker, head of the “Coyotes” of Tactical Exercise Evaluation and Control Group at the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center at Twentynine Palms, Calif., received nonjudicial punishment Dec. 6, said Lt. Col. Rick Long, a spokesman at Quantico, Va.
The decision was made by Maj. Gen. Keith Stalder, commanding general of Training and Education Command at Quantico, Long said.
“Any comment about Colonel Tucker’s future service is inappropriate pending review of his record by the chain of command,” Long said.
Attempts to reach Tucker for comment were unsuccessful.
It was unclear whether Tucker, who is married and has been reassigned to a staff job at the combat center, would retire or face a board of inquiry. Any documented misconduct against officers within two years of a retirement automatically is reviewed at the Navy secretary level.
No adverse action against the female captain involved had been taken as of Dec. 9, Long said. It was unclear whether any administrative action will be taken.
Tucker’s replacement as “Coyote 6,” or director of TTECG, is Col. Ronald Baczkowski, who on Oct. 24 was assigned as the director, Long said. Tucker had been pulled from duty as the investigation proceeded.
Baczkowski came to Twentynine Palms after relinquishing command of the Okinawa, Japan-based 4th Marines, which he assumed in July 2004. A 1980 graduate of the Naval Academy, he has also commanded 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines.
Sounds like the same dude. Another great government official.
What consequences follow something like this?
Asking about possible legal consequences, not what will actually happen in the courts (nothing) or guaranteed on social media (roasted).
Straight up, with my 5.56 comment below. Pure lies or….deceit, i.e. perjury.
I have a friend once told me, that he was hunting with a third party, and this friend of a friend (whom I do not know) shot a duck with a .223 and decapitated it.
I can’t quite remember the name of the movie, which starred a few of the original participants, of a battle on a mountain top in Afghanistan. Great movie. Troos were supposed to be withdrawing, but instead they faced a concerted Taliban attack. My question is simply this: if the M9 is a defensive weapon and the M4 is only an offensive weapon, why were all of those soldiers using their M4s and not their pistols?
“Soldiers” aren’t normally issued handguns.
sounds like “Lone Survivor”….based in a true story….
I believe that this was originally a Russian movie. Unknown if actors were “Afghanski” (Russian Afghan Vets). Blue and white horizontally striped tee shirts.
It was more of a horror movie for me when my sons and I watched it. I may not have too many bad memories, but I really prefer that they don’t come visit me anymore.
The small detachment was bunkered on top of a mesa, and the Taliban concentrated on them from all around. Sorry that I can’t remember the title, but it was a foreign (to us) film. Should be findable.
I thought it was the .44 Magnum that will “blow your head clean off.”
And now, a 9mm will blow a lung clean out of your body.
Ain’t science wonderful?
Well, S&W .44 Mag is the most powerful hand gun ever made – I know this to be true because a guy named Clint said so.
Also, real military assautly type guns (not the de-tuned civilian kind) can shoot satellites out of space and I know a guy with a Camaro that can go 300mph on pump gas and he knows a guy with a Mustang that has broken the sound barrier. All of these things are totally true.
Just because he served it doesn’t make him an idiot. Also it does not matter how inaccurate this is when the court that this is going to is full of judges that are even more ignorant and unlike Craig here don’t just want an AWB, they want the literal complete and total ban of all guns, the complete and total end and ban of all private gun ownership in the United States along with the mandated confiscation of all guns and the mandated extermination of every single gun owner in the United States. I can very easily see the majority of the ninth circuit saying that the United States government has the full constitutional legal authority to ban all guns, gun ownership and exterminate every single gun owner in the United States. I go for far to say that most of the ninth circuit judges fully support the deployment of nuclear weapons to do so. Just like 95% of the current Democrat party. I suspect craig here doesn’t have that extreme of an opinion.
Follow the science! If it saves just one life. I truly fear for Ca.
Perhaps you think first of the atomic bomb, estimated to have killed as many as 200,000 people when the United States dropped two on the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945.
But another weapon is responsible for far more deaths – numbering up into the millions. It’s the Kalashnikov assault rifle, commonly known as the AK-47.
“But another weapon is responsible for far more deaths – numbering up into the millions. It’s the Kalashnikov assault rifle, commonly known as the AK-47.”
humans pull triggers, guns don’t really fire themselves intentionally.
California bans them also.
AK-48:Design for “sport”! What is your point? The civilianized version just like the AR is a SEMI-AUTOMATIC rifle.
Paul Tibbets killed those people, with the help of many others, who’s names no one recalls, while under the command of yet more, some of who’s names are recalled. (Glad that is not my burden to bear) The *tool* he used to do it was the first (deployed) atomic bomb. The bomb did not load itself into the B-29, it did not fly itself to Japan, it did not target Hiroshima and it did not choose to fall from the air-frame. All of the decisions that led to that event were made by *people*. Similarly, no gun, neither AR nor AK, M1 nor KAR98k, M1903 nor Gewehr 98, nor any other, has ever fired itself in anger. Men, their minds, hearts and hands, have done all of the damage – for better or worse. By fixating on the tool, you are ignoring the threat.
“with little use at all as a defensive weapon.”
hundreds of victims of violent home invasion in the last 10 months would disagree.
yell ya what…break into my house and find out.
AK, no, it was other people that were responsible for those deaths. Rifles don’t fire themselves and planes do not drop bombs without a human deciding to kill the people on the ground. You can get on the internet. Surely you’re not that obtuse.
Military expert oraficers
As a retired Staff Sergeant of Marines, all I can say is “Fucking Officers”.
“Thanks, Sam. Now I want a brisket sandwich.”
Always glad to be helpful.
“When you are getting made dead, feelings matter.”
“But not for long…”
You are just an old meany.
You are just an old meany.
But a merciful one…
“You are just an old meany.”
“But a merciful one…”
Opinions are like, you know, like everyone has one.
Sound like this clown actually saw a rifle once in basic training, but never actually fired one… Must have spent his tour bent over a general’s desk.
I’m sorry i didn’t read all the comments, but the man is perjury on display. Was the M4 and most AR-15 designed for 5.56 NATO. His .223 testimony is literally meaningless!
FYI, I want my bullets to be deadly and tumble or whatever bruh. They’re BULLETS I launched to end a threat!
“As Willie/Joe observed approx 80yr ago “A moving foxhole attracts the eye”. ”
Always enjoyed Mauldin’s perspective.
The best I could find quickly. Most here likely don’t know (unfortunately) Bill Mauldin
“The best I could find quickly.”
It is a good one.
think Audie Murphy’s buddy in “The Red Badge of Courage”……
anybody ever consider these so called military experts are deliberately setting themselves up to be discredited ??
under military rules they still have to follow certain guidelines, they are probably concerned about voicing there support for the second amendment so they say easily debunked stupidity hoping that when the time comes if they get dragged into court it will be shredded like the trash it is.
at this point even dacian could rip this disgraced jar head apart.
that’s not saying much for dacian the dork, but it does say a lot for how bad that guys comments are.
The explanation is obvious. The now retired Colonel was drinking the water at Camp Lejeune.
Worse…Twentynine Palms. Lake Bandini is NOT something you want to experience. EVER.
The Leftists will stoop to the lowest levels to bring about our disarmelment!
One of the factors influencing the stability of a bullet in flight is the density of the medium through which it’s passing. It’s well-know, for instance, that a bullet is harder to stabilize in cold air. This is because cold air is denser than warm air. The same principle applies when a bullet strikes flesh. In fact, flesh is so much denser than air that the stability it was imparted with to remain stable in flight probably won’t be enough to keep it stable when it strikes flesh. So it becomes unstable and will tend to tumble.
This is not news. During WWI, the first major war fought primarily with smokeless powder rifles shooting spire-pointed bullets, bullets tumbling on impact was commonplace. The bullets weren’t intentionally designed to tumble, it just happened to be a natural consequence of a long, streamlined bullet striking flesh at high velocity. And the wounding wasn’t considered that remarkable because they were just coming out of the era of the “Dum-Dum” bullet, the terminal effects of which had been overblown in press reports coming back from a British Army campaign in northwest India.
And it wasn’t until Eugene Stoner set out to sell his poodle-shooter to the US military that anyone thought to use the fact of the tumbling bullet as an advertising tool. So this “sinister” tumbling-effect is forever linked to the AR-15 family of rifles as well as the .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO cartridges.
But no, it wasn’t deliberately designed to tumble any more than the .22-caliber round was meant to wound the enemy soldier rather than kill him. Both are myths born of ignorance.
This lying cuck is a MESS. His dumb married ass was relieved of duty in Dec. 2005 for inappropriate behavior with a captain.
Most military personnel are not expert in the use of firearms, including Marines. The official name for the USMC rifle program used for qualification is Entry Level Rifle. An “expert” score on Table 1 can be achieved with a 40% hit rate, and the standard was lowered in the mid-2000s after adding Table 2 (305 out of 350)