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I’d flinch too. As I do whenever I’m metaphorically assaulted by military euphemisms, which always seem to eliminate (with extreme prejudice) the need to say the words “kill” and “shoot.” But that’s what happens when spinmeisters use psycho-linguistics to downplay a kinetic military action—I mean war to an American public all too willing to turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to its troops’ mission overseas.

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  1. Well, did they earn their pay by taking the bastards out? Why didn’t the video tell us that in more explicit detail? I can’t stand sanitized war reporting.

    • “earn their pay”

      These men sacrifice many rights that you enjoy, in order to serve in the military. Rights they won’t earn again until they are discharged, retire, or end their enlistment. Nice 9-to-5 work week at 40 hours? Comfortable working conditions? OSHA requirements? Right to Free Speech?

      Our marines and soldiers don’t have many of the rights you enjoy, even when stationed stateside. And things get even worse when deployed. And you have the gall to tell them to “earn their pay?” Next thing you’ll know, I’ll hear you say they need to “earn your respect” too.

      These men and women in uniform do crap that I personally don’t feel like enduring (especially overly political bull from officers and the pentagon), so excuse me for saying I don’t think they need to “earn their pay” simply with kills.

      • Get off your high horse. We pay them to use their skills to kill psychotic backwards religious fundamentalists. I want to know if they were successful in doing their job or not. And if so, how successful?

        And you’re right. No one gets my respect just because of their position or job. If I gave all military service members respect just for being service members I’d have to give that self-righteous douchebag that basically considered himself one of the “only ones” respect too. And he ain’t getting it.

        • Trust me, none of us in the military give a shit if we have you’re respect or not Go back to playing your video games if you want the rest of the story

        • “We pay them to use their skills to kill psychotic backwards religious fundamentalists”…and American citizens designated as “terrorists” in accordance with the NDAA.

          Fixed that for ya.

      • Nice 9-to-5 work week at 40 hours?

        Most IT jobs your on call 24/7. Same with other industries too such as medicine, management, and a criminal defense attorneys, just to name a few. I’ve had plenty of after midnight jobs (when i’m 1st shift), because that is the only acceptable time to take down servers for maintenance.

        Comfortable working conditions?
        Plenty of other jobs have uncomfortable working conditions. Data centers and warehouses where you need a jacket. Steel foundries where you need anti-heat suits. Construction workers in the summer/winter.

        OSHA requirements?
        OSHA works with the military too

        Right to Free Speech?
        You lose that when you’re on the job in the private sector too.

        And you have the gall to tell them to “earn their pay?”
        They do need to earn their pay and respect. The only reason they joined the military is because they can’t get higher paying work in the private sector. How many private sector employers provide homes and 3 meals a day for their employees? Full collage educations for a field not related to their job? 100% free medical care? Rock bottom interest rates for mortgages and business loans? They are welfare queens extraordinaire.

        • People join the military for many reasons. A prominent one is that they come from impoverished neighborhoods, and want to advance their career opportunities in life by getting a degree while serving their country. In many cases, they knowingly do this out of a sense of honor, and because they don’t want to live a life dominated by drugs and gang violence.

          People who knowingly volunteer for a job that includes the very likely possibility of death or dismemberment in the description deserve a lot more respect than the rest of us in cushy 9-5 office jobs. People like you clearly can’t grasp this concept.

        • A prominent one is that they come from impoverished neighborhoods, and want to advance their career opportunities in life by getting a degree while serving their country… [because they don’t want to live a life dominated by drugs and gang violence.

          My parents were broke, my dad died homeless. I never had a opportunity to get a education beyond the elementary school level, because the school system threw me in special ed; the officials didnt like what I had to say. When I was 16 I was managing the computers for my school district, by 20 I was doing it for a private university, by 26 I was doing it for BlueCross BlueShield Assoc. I’m entirely self taught, I did it without joining the military or requiring any other form for welfare to advance myself.

          People who knowingly volunteer for a job that includes the very likely possibility of death or dismemberment in the description deserve a lot more respect than the rest of us in cushy 9-5 office jobs.
          As TTAG has noted, more people are killed in Chicago by violence than in Afghanistan. That is just 1 city, and not even the worst. Plenty of other jobs can get you injured or killed, does that mean we should put construction workers or miners up on a pedestal too?

          People like you clearly can’t grasp this concept.
          No, I just got ahead without requiring a government handout. I’ve been injured on the job a couple times and almost killed once; i’ve even had students try to rob me twice while working in public education environments. But you don’t see me calling myself a paragon of virtue.

          The service members never took the job to honor their country, they did it to advance themselves in society.

        • henry, matt and you have never held back from making scathing remarks about others. while i don’t condone the remark that hold fast made it’s part of the rough and tumble here.
          personally i feel that family should be left out of these remarks. as you know i’m x military and have had my share of words with matt on the subject. but i do feel that family should be off limits. that’s 1 line we shouldn’t cross.

        • I am in the military. I neither want nor expect to be held as being above anyone. I don’t need nor want your or anyone kudos or whatever. But let me call you out on your BS.

          I used to work in IT (Nuvox Communications) before joining upon naturalization, and took a serious pay cut in 2004 when I joined the corps. Income reduced by 50%. Even including BAH and BAS (no, not everyone gets three meals, and if you’ve had chow hall meals, you’d know better than view those as a perk). I’ve known quite a few like me, other motivated, service-oriented young men and women who gave up a lot to join, not just the potential income but actual pay checks. We collectively salute you, raising our middle fingers.

          Now, let’s address your BS:

          When you join the military, you get to cap your pre-service loans to 6%. Source: SCRA (you know how to google, right?) Any other loan after that, you’re in the same boat as everyone else.

          College education? Sure, tuition assistance allows you to take classes after work. And the GI bill is a benefit that can be used after service or during, but it’s not a license to get any degree you chose or want. If you think that and military medical care is that great, go see your nearest recruiter.

          The OSHA link you posted, you probably didn’t even bother reading, did you?! FIRST FLIPPING SENTENCE: “the Army approached OSHA with a desire to use a proactive approach to aggressively improve Army civilian workforce safety and health at their installations. ”
          CIVILIAN WORKFORCE. Since one should never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence, I have to ask, you do know how to read? Or, perhaps you thought no one would read the link, or challenge you?

          Data centers are cold? Are you effing kidding me? Swiped from Wiki: ASHRAE’s (American Society of Heating, Refrigerating and Air-Conditioning Engineers) “Thermal Guidelines for Data Processing Environments” recommends a temperature range of 16–24 °C (61–75 °F)”
          My goodness, these data centers are worse than working in the Antartic! And yes, I did spend enough time in enough data centers, NOCs and switches to see that BS for what it is. Most people would love to have such stable, temperature, humidity and air quality controlled environment.

          Even then, if people actually spend their days in a data center, all they need is a nice sweater, then go home in the evening. Besides, using your logic, you can always quit your job and find somewhere else to go. You know who can’t do that? Service members. Even after your contract is up after 3 or 4 year, or as an officer after 2 years (at best) after your last move, they can still stop loss you; that can happen even in today’s drawdown.

          You did it all without welfare, eh? So you imply the military is public welfare now? Nice one. Don’t pat yourself on the back too much, you haven’t arrived yet.

        • The lack of respect you show for those in the military is truly galling, especially in your out-of-the-line remark about ‘welfare queens’. The military provide a service for the rest of the country, at great sacrifice to their own happiness.

          Unhappy about their pension after 20 years? You pull an 8 year enlistment, then tell me that its not a fair trade for doing another 12 with them. Many soldiers do not stay past their current enlistment, simply because most of civilian life is far easier. There are SOME easy military jobs, but there are also some difficult civilian jobs (And don’t try and say 24/7 on call IT is too hard. IT professionals are well compensated for their skills and certifications)

          The simple fact is, those in the military typically have a more difficult life, which they cannot up and quit any time they like due to enlistment contract rules.

          And ultimately, I don’t give a damn about your own “bootstrapping” story. Military servicemen sacrifice alot of what we take for granted, and they are specifically compensated for those sacrifices. Would I be willing to undertake those sacrifices for those compensations? No, they’re not my cup of tea. But I will respect those that are.

          And refuse to respect those that think themselves the same, or better, than those who serve in our military

      • Never looked into the regulations, but the one time I was personally ‘corrected’ by an angry Sergeant Major was for walking down the street from a unit armorers class while carrying a Mk19.

        His problem? The Army designates that item as a two man lift, and I was by myself. Maybe OSHA did have something to do with it.

      • A couple things:

        First, I respect anyone that has served and is serving the Military. That said, please don’t make it sound like their job is so above anyone else’s job. It’s a job. A job they volunteered for. There hasn’t been a draft since 1973… so don’t act like current soldiers are forced into service and are doing us poor civilians some huge sacrifice on our behalf. A fair portion of the people that go into the military just want to blow shit up or kill bad guys. More power to them. And I’m sure a fair portion are actually there to make a difference. Good for them.

        Second, for those that were drafted, you deserve my and anyone else’s utmost respect because actually did sacrifice a lot for the sake of everyone else. Now, I’m not saying current military members sacrifice any less just because they weren’t drafted, but I’m saying anyone just demanding respect for the military just because they’re military is a bit grandiose. I respect those in the front lines sure, but do I respect those behind desks that never see bullets fly by? I respect them as much as I respect any civilian sitting behind a desk that doesn’t see bullets either.

        Everyone deserves respect, regardless if your job requires a weapon or not. Everyone makes sacrifices in one way or another that effects people around them.

        That said, a job is a job. There wouldn’t be a military without civilian dollars footing the bill and there wouldn’t be civilians enjoying their freedoms without the military. So respect goes both ways.

        Stop acting like one half of the coin is more important than the other.

  2. Good thing somebody sitting in a CP cleared them to fire. It would be tragic if they returned fire without permission.

    • It would probably be a fcuking international incident. Better safe than sorry, at least with a pinko CinC that has already proven that he’d throw his grandparents under a bus let alone some buck private Marine.

  3. nothing like the sound of a round going past your ear to remind you of how flexible your neck is. and the sound of rounds striking objects around you gets you focused real quick. won’t hurt my feelings if i never hear those noises again.

    • That was the thing I really took to heart from that video. These guys are getting shot at with accurate fire and yet they stay there and do their job. I’m the first to admit that I would have a hard time doing what they are doing. Maybe if I had the training, but in my eyes, it takes a special person with a lot of bravery to sit on a roof and take incoming fire for days at a time, while gathering intel.

  4. One issue that few are looking at: 1St. our troops have been in combat too long, 2nd. too much hot combat is bad for anyone, the body breaks down, and should we get into a new but very hot shooting war, look out for problems… Iran , North Korea, Syria , China, Russia, could all unite and we bite off more than we can chew, also , our Factory base has been DESTROYED by off shore industry… We may be in a bad place, we need to RESTORE our home land NOW, and we are broke!!!!!!!!!

  5. If you forcibly enter someone’s house, and they shoot at you, it probably means they don’t want you there. The same applies to foreign countries.

    • Yes, they didn’t want us there. But when foreign countries allow undesirable elements to thrive in the countryside, you repeatedly warn them to clean up their act or suffer the consequences, you repeatedly tell them that the day the undesirables strike you you will retaliate, and then the undesirables do strike, then those foreign countries get what they had coming.
      Do some reading, will you? Try “Ghost Wars”; “The Far Enemy”; “The Looming Towers” for starters. Do suggest readings to counter my arguments, if you’d like; we jarheads can and do actually read.

        • Hmm. I’ve read quite a few pieces by Johnson, though his turf is mostly Japan/NE Asia.

          I presume from the title that he continues his argument against American presence (in particular military presence) abroad. Does it, however, address the point of what to do when you are in fact attacked? Another apology (as in defense of) soft power as the answer to all?
          I’ll see if the library has it.

    • How about we just say, “screw this Marshall Plan BS” – you commit an act of war against the United States, or harbor those who do – we go in, smash the place up, then leave. No humanitarian aid. No trying to enforce democracy on a tribal culture. But… mess with us again and we’ll be back…

      That is a message sheiks would understand.

      • Yes, those leaders/governments would eventually get the point. but it would also create a vacuum where the undesirables would thrive. And then you’d be back to square one.

        Not to mention the unnecessary suffering that would ensue for the normal people, civilians, that have nothing to do with anything. Remember, accusing all Afghanis to be talibs would be like saying all Americans are democrat since Pres Obama is in power.

  6. Being on a roof top for 3 days sucks! You get cramps in places you didn’t even know you had muscles.
    For better or worse right now they are there, so I support them. If you don’t like the war blame political leaders not the soilders.
    Yeah ok they use ephimisoms instead of saying targeted killings of the enemy. It is more PC, which unfortunately is where this country has come to. I remember seeing the Israeli bus 5 bombing pictures in an Israeli News paper. Body parts and blood everywhere. US news was all sanatized, no blood no death. Death and in some cases violent death is part of life. My children in Israel learned that very early on. If anything I have found itakes them cherish life even more because they realize their own mortality.

  7. Hope no one minds a partial repost here.
    Thanks to everyone who’s ever honorably served or is still serving in the U.S. Military, and including the N. Guard, Reserves, Coasties and the Merchant seamen.

    Nothing brightens up my day better than seein’ a man or woman in Military Uniform or talking to a person who’s Served our Nation and getting the chance to say “THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!”
    Plenty of good organizations out there serving those who’ve Served us.
    If you’re not already contributing in some way, maybe strongly consider doing so. is a good place to get started.

  8. People use euphemisms because there are others that are offended by the harsh reality of what those terms imply.

    There’s a number of people here without any class, which is unfortunate. Hold Fast, A Reasonable Man, etc.

    We can all look at the wars we’re fighting and say “If we weren’t there, horrible thing X would / wouldn’t happen.” but there’s no need to spew vitriol and make personal attacks on anyone.

    Some of you are absolutely correct – we place people on pedestals because of their job and fall for the myth rather than the reality. The soldier / fire fighter / doctor / police man / nurse / etc will always hold a high place in society simply because people revere the profession, rightly or wrongly, even if the individual soldier / fire fighter / doctor / etc is a horrible human being when you get down to it.

    There’s few things humans love more than war, so don’t be surprised if we take any excuse possible to be in one.

  9. “downplay a kinetic military action” Really, I suppose the video showed them holding hands and weaving baskets?!

  10. Good thing we don’t have to rely on Henry and/or Matt to protect us. Get our your crayons and color in the balls section.

  11. I wish they would bring all our guys home from Afghanistan and Iraq. Every time I see a wounded US soldier or a soldier and his family crying because daddy is getting deployed AGAIN I can’t help but think those people are just not worth it. We have made our point. If you (or your leaders) pick a fight with America, you will get your teeth kicked in. Why are we rebuilding for them. Rebuilding their country kind of undermines the whole getting your teeth kicked in thing. IMO.

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