“Time permitting, shooters can reload 14 more rounds, preferably behind hard cover.” See what they did there? That’s funny! What’s not so funny: the idea that cops need 14 rounds of shotshell (each) to solve their problem. Which could be you! Then again, the ATF never got ’round to outlawing Kel-Tec’s bullpup shottie. So you too can prove there’s no such thing as too much ammunition. All it takes is money. $1197 to be precise. Or less. The once-scarce KSG is starting to show up just about everywhere now, sometimes at a discount. In short, the blush is off the 14-round 12-gauge rose. Or is it? Would you add a KSG to your collection (which was lost in a boating accident) if it didn’t cost so much? Name your price.
This thing is junk. Good for a boat anchor. How about $1.97?
Why do you say that?
Because of every review out there citing serious reliability issues.
How can you say that from just reading a reviws. My kel tec is awesome and i love it and use it as my mane shotgun. To say it’s shit from just reading reviews is bullshit. Dont listen to his dude he’s full of shit. I own one and ive never had a problem with it and it’s one of the best guns out there.
Ahh another internet moron speaking about something he knows nothing about…why would someone do that you ask? Because he’s read reviews written by other people who know nothing about what they’re talking about! Brilliant!
I love my KSG. I will say it jams more than a regular pump action, but that may also be because I fire it more often since I have 15 rounds at my disposal. Overall I’d give it a 7 out of 10.
I had the opportunity to shoot one. Horrible. Jams, recoil, awkward to use.
I second this. After shooting one there is no way I’d buy one. Feels like a cheap china made toy gun. It’s clunky to use and the pump action is anything buy smooth.
Beg to differ love my ksg with the choke adapter you can use it for hunting. Big pump fan. Tight in beginning but after two boxes of ammo functions flawlessly
An $800 price point would certainly make me consider it. Any more than that makes me lean more toward a Saiga.
The Saiga has better reload ergonomics. The price of the KSG would need to come down quite a bit to compete.
I picked up a Saiga 12 for 650 in the middle part of firearmageddon in MA, from a gun store. It was used (looked new) but half the price of all of the others I had seen in MA and FL. It is a lot of fun to shoot! For the price, Saiga.
I would add a KSG for the novelty if I could trust that it works every time.
“I would add a KSG for the novelty if I could trust that it works every time.”
Well I guess you won’t be getting one then.
I have one, paid $650 new after having it on order for nearly a year. Absolutely love it, no jams, have run all kinds of ammo through it. Anyway, stick to the hater rumors not the guys who own them…
The VEPR 12 shotty video review looked pretty good, better than the Saiga..
Please lop the http:// off the front of YouTube links when you copypasta them, so they hotlink instead of embed. Embedded videos in the comments break many mobile browsers. Thanks.
$800? na-uh! $6xx — THEN they would sell.
The sad thing about the current price is it is WAY over inflated. When the shotgun was first released it was priced at around 600, some places were even going as high as 800. When the government talked about banning a large number of weapons, with specifications that would have included the keltec ksg, suddenly the shotgun DOUBLED in price. I emailed keltec and a sales rep told me it was because of the cost of materials..BULLCRAP. Right now they are still playing off the potential of ban which made it EXTREMELY sought after. As much as I want one of these the price gouging that keltec has done with it has me really ticked off.
I must say, they ARE pretty cool. Good bedside companion…
I would rather have the proven products from Remington, Winchester, Benelli, or Mossberg (not necessarily in that order). Why would I want to completely change the configuration of my fighting arm, by relearning a complicated system?
I believe Remington has re-branded themselves as SuperKablammoF-Yeah. Or something along those lines.
“Yeah, don’t come around here with that learning shit! We keepin’ it REAL!”
“Ugh! Learning’s hard!”
If they make a reliable semi version I will sell my saiga today for it.
Well then I’d imagine you’re going to be long friends with you Saiga then.
Never really wanted one. But I still want a Saiga 12.
I’m a Kel Tec fan, (PMR 30 and PF 9) and I can’t see any use for this shotgun. I shoot trap and own two shotguns that I can’t load more than 1 round in because of range rules. I’m too old to play tactical games…
How fact could Jerry Miculek empty one?
I can’t guess, because I’ve never seen Miculek clear a jam in a pump action gun. Is he super fast at that?
My S2000 literally broke in half when I shot it so, no. The s2k is a “novelty” as is this shot gun. I would however buy a RFB, all metal.
9mm or 40?
.40 WWB (not reloads) 180 grain.
I had just shot a hog and was taking a follow up shot and all of the sudden I was holding 2 pieces.
I wasn’t hurt.
I called Kel-Tec and everyone was at shot show and no one would approve my request that they pick up shipping; I thought that it was a very reasonable request. I even emailed them pictures at their request. They dicked me around for about 3 weeks and I gave up and threw it in the garage. I called again 8 months later and they sent me a return shipping label free of charge immediately at no cost, I sent it off and they shipped me a brand new one in about 2 weeks. Traded it for an AR-15. A KFB near your face kinda ruins you on certain things…
not saying you aren’t being truthful, but if you threw it in the garbage, how were you able to ship it back 8 months later?
Oh MAN! Were you hurt? Hope not. Did the company replace it?
RFB, being a Kel-tec, has inconsistent reliability and quality issues too. MAC got one and couldn’t get it to run right. Nutnfancy hosted a guy from Kel-tec and that guy couldn’t get his to run right. Not that these are proof enough that the whole lot is hit or miss, but if you do a search online… you’d find pretty much the same stories repeated over and over. For every rifle that works, you find one that doesn’t. That’s a pretty bad ratio for a gun costing as much as they do.
Very true. Kel-Tec puts out a lot of lemons, but some trustworthy reviewers like Jeff Quinn (Gunblast.com) and Nutnfancy have had luck with their KSGs and RFBs. Others, like Tim of the Military Arms Channel, have had nothing but bad luck. I hear similar stories about their customer service- from excellent to non-existent. They are very inconsistent. I myself might try a strategy of paying more to get a RFB or KSG that was verified to be reliable. Now, some of Kel-Tec’s other firearms like most of their pistols and SU-16 series have a much better batting average, and I still want an SU-16C (both 5.56mm and 300BLK!). If you want one of their products it’s worth the effort to try and get a working, functional unit because their firearms are unique and have attributes and features you simply cannot find elsewhere in the marketplace at present.
Have owned a Kel Tec. Pl 16, sold it. There was absolutely nothing wrong with it. Without a short butt stock on it, hard to control. Later I bought the SU 16 C. That folks is a very sweet firing rifle. Have put 500 – 600 rounds through it. That’s not a lot but considering I own a “few”other rifles, and am a Disabled Army Retiree/DAV, sometimes hard to get range time in. I belong to GunsSaveLife.com, they have a KSG coming up in their Great Guns drawing, so looked at it, handled it and was impressed. Bought one today and pick it up tomorrow (Saturday).
For the naysayers concerning KelTec, yes they have had a lot of problems and customer service sometime is bad or worse. But their KSG and rifles have improved a lot. I plan to by their FRB when I can get the money together. So that’s it. I’ll see how the KSG works, but lovedon’t my PLR16 and continue to love my SU 16C.
As mentioned before, they only cost as much as they do because of this perceived uniqueness and low manufacturing output. Take the PMR-30 for example, it’s a ~$300 dealer cost, but you see them for double that. The same goes with the KSG, ~$750 but going for double that. Like with retailers that took advantage of the Post Sandy Hook environment by raising prices radically, almost exponentially, I refuse to do business with people/businesses that take advantage of the People of the Gun. I have written off more than a couple FFLs and private sale people because of price gouging.
Before the crowd chimes in with “you don’t know unless you’ve tried them”, I have. Are they interesting designs? Yes, definitely. Are they quality firearms? No. Great idea, poor execution, horrible materials selection, manufacturing quality, and manufacturing output. It’s a shame really, but I think that’s by design. Either they can’t put out the production numbers that other big manufacturers can, thereby causing this perceived “high demand, low supply” environment (a PR move and intentional). Or, it’s by accident, because of the failure at QC or simply manpower in production (bad management/controls). Neither of which sits well with me when evaluating something that I’m going to spend money on. Do I still have some KelTecs? Yes. Would I buy them at the inflated prices that are being pushed around? No, definitely not. The dealer cost is still on the high side for the level of quality you are getting, both in material and function.
I don’t buy novelty items. I like practical items, maybe pratical items that have some novelty like feature, yes.
But a novelty item, with horrendous reliability reviews, no thank you.
In theory I like the idea of bullpup weapons but it seems that a lot of companies have trouble turning the design into reality without some problem. Maybe if more companies gt into the game we’ll see a refinement of the design similar to the current modern sporting rifles.
All the same, I’d rather buy a bullpup shotgun from Ruger or Mossberg. Kel-Tec doesn’t have the best reputation and if something is going to cost more then six hundred dollars and could fail spectacularly while I’m holding it I want to buy from a trusted source.
I don’t really think it matters where you got it from, a spectacular fail from a reputable manufacturer is just as bad, if not worse than a fail from a shoddy manufacturer. Especially next to your face!
I think it’s basically a cool idea, but not something that I want all that much. It would be far, far down my wish list. I’ve never touched one and I have nothing against it, it’s just that there is SO MUCH MORE that I have touched and that I genuinely lust for. It might appear on the list, but is definitely in the “if I won the lottery” category.
I don’t want one. I’ll stick with my Winchester.
I want one. I just wished they worked flawlessly. What I want is the KSG GenII i guess. I ran point in Vietnam using a Win 12. I look at the KSG design and see the perfect point man bush gun. And the perfect bedside companion.
Mine has. I picked it up expecting a range toy / fun gun, but it has run perfectly for over 6+ months and 100s of rounds of all kinds. Kel Tec has quietly revised a number of parts since the early prototypes that appeared in many of the negative reviews, so the new ones are kind of a 2.0.
Full disclosure: MAC appears to have the same model that I do (based on a single witness hole at the rear of each mag tube), but I have no idea how he managed to have so much trouble in his “painful first shots” video. I couldn’t replicate any of those problems if I tried.
Mine works fine, if people do not short stroke their KSG it will work, just dont limp wrist it, pump it like you mean it and the whining will stop.
MAC’s review of the Kel-Tec KSG shotgun was enough for me to not want one. Ejecting shells directly into my wrist isn’t exactly what I’m looking for in a practical, efficient, home defense tool.
The weapon jamming as his demonstrator racks the first round is priceless…
The jamming of EVERY subsequent round is just adding gasoline to the fire.
That review was devastating
Every video review I’ve seen of this gun seems like the reviewer has to very consciously, deliberately, and “dancing on eggshells” cycle it to try to avoid hangs and jams. What a hideous turd of a design.
Typical Kel-Tec, IMHO: Great idea, poor execution
Do you put in your “expert” opinion on other issues you are this ignorant about? You apparently haven’t had any experience whatsoever with the KSG besides watching youtube videos, why do you keep making comments? I own one and it works fine. I’ve shot it, disassembled it, figured out the workings, and know exactly why people have trouble with them. It’s not precisely short stroking, it’s if you don’t rack it firmly all the way to the limit, it doesn’t strike the lever to unlock the next shell. It just requires a very slightly different technique. You could have figured it out in less time than you spent on your smartass comments about it. I found one for $750 and impulse bought it. I still like my Bennelli better, but this has a lot of potential.
I haven’t found ejecting-into-the-wrist to be nearly the issue as is shown in MAC’s video (disclaimer: I’m using only snap caps at this point, but I don’t see how spent shells would be worse). Sure, if you pull your arm in under the ejection port you can beat up your wrist; if you keep your elbow up a little, though, the shells clear just fine.
I seriously think that maybe Tim has been shooting his Tavor a little too much, since the Israeli “6 points of contact” hold does require you to pull in your arm, and makes for an excellent, rock-solid shooting position. The KSG prefers a different hold.
As for the feed issues, I’m not seeing anything like that with snap caps; they always chamber correctly. I am seeing snap caps get hung between the lifter arms while ejecting, and that has caused issues feeding snap caps. I don’t think that can / will happen when ejecting spent shells, though, because there’s not enough tension / resistance to compression to hold them there.
I like the KSG design enough that I bought one, and I really want it to work, but that doesn’t mean I need to tirelessly or unfairly defend it. My honest impression at this stage is that getting dual tubes to work requires a more complicated design than traditional pumps, which means there are more things that need to work just right and more problems that can arise when they don’t. It’s an impressive design and really works rather well, but there is room for refinement / improvement. And lemons happen. The gun in this video is a lemon.
So you’ve never shot the gun… Not much of a review.
It is what it is. I’ve only had my KSG for a couple weeks and this article showed up now. I figured I’d share what I know so far since most people have never even seen one yet.
Even my very limited experience has been enough to show me that whatever is going on with the gun in MAC’s video is not something I can reproduce on mine, and that with various holds I can either reproduce or totally avoid the “painful ejections” in the video. But, no, I haven’t fired it yet. Or field stripped it. There’s a lot I don’t know yet.
I’ll be posting more experiences in the shotgun forums here as I get a chance to go out and shoot my KSG and try out various accessories. If you’re interested in my experiences check back in a couple weeks or so. I ought to have some more to say by then.
FWIW, I’ve taken my KSG out several times now and have put 100+ rounds of various loads through it, and my doubts have pretty much been erased. Time will tell whether the KSG has any long-term durability problems, but my experience thus far tells me it absolutely does not deserve the bad reviews and skepticism that people have been directing at it. Mine has been awesomely fun to shoot, absolutely flawless to operate (with live ammo), and perfectly accurate and reliable.
So there’s your review after having shot it. My own cautious apprehension and concerns over how my KSG functioned with snap cap are minor, unimportant footnotes compared to how it shoots. If you want negatives, it’s still rather pricy for a pump, and reloading is not so intuitive as with traditional pump designs, but that’s a problem that can be managed with practice, and one that’s arguably not so critically important when you can carry 15 rounds to start with.
I’m left handed. Casings hammering my wrist is a step up from flying across my face or in some instances falling down my shirt. It’s not a good thing but if your use for the gun is home defense, it’s not really an issue.
Honestly, I’ve got to call operator error on shells ejecting into the wrist. I had just picked up my KSG when this article came out and was reluctant to second-guess MAC’s experience, but in over half a year of use I just have not had that happen. Ever. The KSG would make a fine lefty gun, IMO, since the design is perfectly symmetrical (apart from the safety, but that’s no biggie).
Put your elbow out to a 75-90 degree angle and your wrist will not get hit, your only shooting at targets.
Seriously, Venator? Your stated POU for this weapon is home defense, and you’re worried about a spent shell hitting you in the wrist? If you have to use this thing for that purpose, that’s going to be the last thing on your mind. If it annoys you during practice/training, wear a wrist band, or better yet, gloves… something you ought to be wearing anyway. smdh…
I would choose the Saiga over the KSG. I honestly believe a cheap mossberg 88 security would be more reliable than both.
Honestly, I don’t really want one. A bit too much plastic for my tastes. I can see the benefit of polymer handguns being lightweight but a lightweight polymer shotgun? It looks fancy though -like straight out of Ripley’s hands in the movie Aliens fancy.
Black aces tactical make recievers for most common pump action shotties to convert then to saiga magazine feed
1100.00 the cheapest I have seen one was for 1800.00. In Feb. of this year they were are as much as 2800.00. I like the concept but I will wait until I see more of them around and then deside
A far cry from the ~$750-850 cost…. Is it even worth it at that cost? I’d say no…
It’s an interesting concept, but I’d wait for a reputable manufacturer like Ruger, S&W, Remington etc to pick up the idea and refine it.
My PF9 was the worst jamomatic I’ve ever shot and I would never trust my life to a Kel Tec. Kel Tecs look and feel like they were made in a dimly lit Chinese garage.
“Kel Tecs look and feel like they were made in a dimly lit Chinese garage.”
I think they should focus on better materials and quality control rather than new and fancy robocop style equipment.
the sad part is that Kel-Tec has some absolutely fantastic ideas and designs, just the worst damn execution and R&D on the planet. I mean, they’re one of the few companies willing to make guns that aren’t tired rehashes of 1911s or ARs over and over again. If Magpul or Ruger were to miraculously buy out Kel-Tec and apply simple QC/testing procedures and materials that don’t suck, they would be one of the most popular and innovative companies. sadly all we have is the gimmick valu-brand version of kel-tec
I feel certain that anyone who practices could fire 30 rounds from a regular shotgun faster than this thing. But if a situation arises requiring 30 rds from a shotgun the chances of not being completely fuxxored seem slim anyway.
I’d play with it if a friend had one, wouldn’t buy it.
I own one and it’s been great so far. I’ve shot about 500 rounds through it, everything from bird shot to slug, 1 3/4″ mini shells to 3″ magnum and have not had any of the issues shown the the video. The only thing I can say negative about it is when it ejects the spent shell it hits my stomach leaving powder residue on my shirt. It does however kick like a mule with magnum shells. We actually took it out skeet shooting with varied results.
Assuming this was legal in California (it’s not) or that KelTec sold their products here (they don’t), would I buy one? Uh, that would be a “no.” Other than our politicians and drug addicts, there are no zombies out here.
I’m not sure who told you they were not legal in California? There in no current laws on the books that bans the ksg. Each tube holds only 7 rounds and requires a switch to change over.
Buddy works for Vacaville P.D. Totally legal in Kalifornia (for now) I’d love to try one
Also i dunno if they still do or not but Choate machine and tool used to make a bull pup kit for the mossberg 500
I see it as a tacti-cool novelty. I would go with a proven semi-auto. Not to say with re-working it wouldn’t be a good gun. Shotguns are limited to specific jobs. You would be better off spending the money on another (or two) AR’s. I would never buy it to begin with.
YAY: It’s a BULLPUP shotgun, I mean come on – cool for a novelty if nothing else. Looks bad @$$! 14 rounds IF it will spit them out properly.
NAY: It’s a KELTEC, anything North of $800 doesn’t even hit my radar. Can’t believe people were paying $2,400 for this thing during the panic! Functional issues (kind of a big deal).
Tis what it is…which to me is a glorified safe queen. Yes I want one but, it will have to take it’s place behind my tricked out 870 and my naughty Saiga.
Extreme reliability is the only requirement in a defensive shotgun. They all are accurate enough at defensive ranges. If you can’t defend against four armed intruders with eight or nine buckshot, what good is fourteen going to do, and with an unreliable pump action at that? Cooper once asked a man enthralled with ever larger capacity in his handgun “Just how many armed attackers to you think you can beat at one time?” I think the comment is more relevant to a long gun than a handgun, as handgun accuracy at speed is obviously a much rarer result under pressure than long gun accuracy.
It strikes me that most people who find the gun attractive simply want a short-barreled shotgun, without the NFA hassle. They also seem often to accept, given the KSG testing results, that a less-than-robust shotgun is OK, as long as it costs under $800. Apparently it’s an attractive proposition to die in a gun fight with a jammed gun, as long as it’s short and cheap?
Exactly. I would rather take a reliable, tried and true over/under or side-by-side than the KSG.
Totally agree. I own a 590 because I wanted a proven, reliable pump that I can depend on. I got a KSG because I think the design is really cool and has a lot of potential. I’d like to see if it can be reliable enough to graduate from range toy / fun gun status.
The KSG’s short overall length and its very natural balance and aim are huge assets. It’s exceedingly easy to maneuver indoors with the KSG shouldered, and it’s faster to aim the KSG than a longer shotgun. If the KSG can be demonstrated (or made) to work as reliably as traditional pump shotguns then its unique features are very attractive. If. It’s a new design with a lot to prove, and it seems like there’s substantial luck-of-the-draw involved in how well any particular KSG runs.
In the meantime, the Mossberg’s reputation precedes it. There’s no question what the smarter choice would be for a defensive situation. And, hey, there’s the KSG, too. Two is one, right? 🙂
Good luck with it, SF. Knowing almost nothing first-hand about the KSG, perhaps fixes or adjustments (third party parts, even) will turn it into a very reliable gun. Glad you aren’t subbing it in right away as your defensive item.
Thanks. As with all things in life, it’s good to know what you’re getting yourself into. I’ll always trust a proven design over an interesting one. 🙂
Since my KSG showed up I’ve discovered a fair amount of aftermarket options & accessories are out there already. The design is also undergoing subtle evolution. The fore-end (slide) has seen one or two minor redesigns, the magazine tubes had peep holes added, and the latest models have a new double-feed eliminator.
FWIW, you can spot the very latest design by the squared lip on the front of the fore-end and the single (not multiple) peep holes at the rear of each mag tube. The KSG in MAC’s video has these features, so it’s clear that even the latest models don’t have all the bugs worked out yet.
One other angle I haven’t seen discussed much is expected lifespan, wear and tear / maintenance issues and long-term failure modes. In any case, as more people get and shoot KSGs and more issues are discovered, it’s only natural to expect continuous improvements from Kel Tec and 3rd parties.
Even if the KSG never lives up to my best hopes for it, it’s still fun to go along for the ride. I accepted going in that it might never happen, so I’ve been able to enjoy it for what it is and keep its usefulness in perspective. Win-win.
If I could run one through the paces I would consider it, but based on the reviews and user feedback out there no thanks. I’ll stick to my Remington 870 and Benelli M4.
What problem does the KSG solve?
Larger magazine capacity in a pump shotgun? Nah. That wasn’t a problem I ever had. Eight rounds of buckshot is really quite a lot of projectiles flying downrange.
Reliability? The KSG obviously is not a solution unless your prior pump shotguns were blowing up in your face.
Better shot patterns? I seriously doubt it would do as well as a Vang-comp’ed 870 or Mossy 5xx.
Hmmm. Lemme think here. Oh, I know a problem it solves:
My pump shotgun doesn’t have enough tactical plastic on it! That’s it.
Sadly, that’s not a problem I spend much time solving on any of my firearms, so I’m going to give this a pass.
Would you buy it if they made it out of tiger maple?
What problem does the KSG solve?
Oooh! I know this one!
It enables its owners to delude themselves into thinking they never have to learn how to reload a shotgun under stress. Or time pressure. Or in an awkward posture. Because, y’know, 7+7+1 is enough to deal with any imaginable scenario.
Unless your feed tube selector breaks. Or one of your two feed tubes… won’t. Or you’ve loaded one tube with buckshot, the other with slugs, and you’ve shot all of your buckshot… and the last BG standing is in a direct line with stuff you’d rather not shoot.
The smart choice in shotguns would be to get a good pump or semi-auto with ghost-ring/fiber-optic sights, put a Nordic extension on it out to barrel length, and mount an LED flashlight. And learn how to reload the fscking thing on the fly, from a pouch or sidesaddle.
Besides, if you run out of ammo you could always beat them down with the Nordic mag tube. Those things are sturdy as hell.
and.. if it DOESNT fail (which it has yet to for me) and you need the other 7 shots but you dont have them.. you.. well… have a single tubed shotgun anyways.. So.. whats your point? how does that make the 500/590/870 any better? 7+7+1 isnt a bad thing.. and if the selector breaks *gasp* you STILL have 7+1.. just as you would with a standard pump. the difference? less length, more maneuverability, better ergonomics and as much reliability with 7 more than your standard pump ( at a cost of $300 more than your grand-pappy’s scatter gunnn )
in short, yes. I’m just waiting for supply to catch up with demand, so the price get more reasonable.
Ill take the Molot Saiga anyday. Or a corrected reg Saiga 12 like the one i have.
You could get a good Browning or Benelli for that price. Until Kel-Tec
drastically ups the reliability factor I’ll pass.
I still want one. Someone has to preserve one so that future gun designers have a warning from history.
To paraphrase Doc Holiday in Tombstone “I have two (pump shot) guns, one for each of you”
I certainly looked at the KSG with a pretty serious eye, but instead decided to spend $700 on a Mossie 930 SPX, To this day, that is still one of the best purchases I have ever made, bar none.
It’s semi auto (leg on up KSG right there), It has eaten every single shell I have fed it with a smile (and every report/review I have read also confirms it’s reliability). It’s LIGHT as a feather and kicks like a kitten.
All’s I did was slap a cheap Bushnell TRS-25 red dot on top (which co-witnesses beautifully with the fiber optic sites), a Nordic barrel clamp/rail to slap on my tac light, and a gear sector 2 point sling.
I got the model without the pistol grip and can run it inside in close quarters in a ‘hasty-sling’ type manner which would basically allow me to clear out a room from the hip, if needed (not a big hip-shotter of course, but this is a good advantage to have when in real tight quarters and not walking through your house with the weapon shouldered and facing down. It also allows me to keep the shotgun in real tight to my center of mass and not stick out around corners, etc. Very good defensive position).
The only disadvantage I can see over the KSG is it only holds 7+1, vs 14 for the KSG. But heck, is that really a disadvantage with a shottie? 7+1 is pretty sweet. I can top off in a heartbeat – instinctively – where I’m not so sure about that with the KSG, and I never have to worry about switching between feed tubes. KSG might have been a bit too much for me to learn/get good at, where I already am good with an auto-loader. That comes natural after all these years.
I am not slamming the KSG, as I don’t own one. I guess it was just a bridge too far for me and I ended up with my primary HD weapon instead, which I love so much I almost want to tuck it in under the covers with me at night (the girl’s not really into that idea too much though. Maybe one of these days 😉
This sounds like my 930 SPX setup. I bought mine to get into 3 gun. I also have a saiga 12 but I did not want to try it in 3 gun due to putting me into open classes. As a newbie it is not what I wanted. I also got the regular stock over the pistol grip. With the safety on top it made more sense to me.
Always good to hear from fellow 930 SPX owners… I also had 3-gun in mind as a secondary use for this, with HD being it’s primary function. Unfortunately the price of ammo has kept me from jumping in so far, but I still have hopes to be able to some day. I’ve since see Miculek play the 930 SPX like a Stradivarius, which was pretty awe-inspiring if you haven’t seen that vid yet. It definitely gets high marks as an entry level 3-gun shottie. I also agree with the safety thing. I tried the pistol grip model and didn’t like having to re-position my grip to hit the tang safety. Having no pistol grip is just natural for me anyway and keeps the gun sleeker and more ergonomic (for me at least). Also makes it easier to employ in close in a defensive manner and coupled with the sling, all but prevents someone from taking it from me, as well as helps control muzzle flip on a quick burst of rounds. Man, of all my weapons, my SPX is still my best bang for the buck, wisest purchase and highest recommendation.
Keeping in mind the KSG is not really “14”. It is 7+7, which means if you run out you have to manually switch tubes. It’s more like having a spare reload you can access quickly. So the ammunition capacity is not really just a straight up numerical advantage, just a fast tactical reload.
Also, I practiced shooting a shotgun from the hip for awhile and got quite good at blasting soda cans off tree stumps at 20 feet or so. Buckshot makes it easier but you still have to be “close enough”. It definitely takes some practice but if you can figure out your sight line versus the height of the barrel it can be done pretty easily. Never could get the hang out it with a handgun though.
In short, your idea could work if you practice shooting from the hip. It’s viable with a shotty.
Yeah, I’ve done some shooting with it from the hip. Again, not implying that this would be the ideal way to employ any weapon, but it does work with this shottie/sling set up real well. At room-sized distances, it’s not difficult to hit what you’re intending to with buck loads. And yeah, definitely have to be conscious of the height you have it at. For me, ‘hip’ is really more like mid-torso. The hasty-type sling is really what makes this practical and controllable. I can control the weapon much better in real tight/around corners like that and can pull it up to the shoulder if I have a half a second to do so. Coupled with my FNX 45 tactical, my HD set up is pretty much ideal at this point. Took me many years of experimenting to find what works best for me…
Or convert a Saiga 12 to the Kushnapup.
In theory, it’s great – slugs in one tube, buckshot in the other; select the correct round for the task and reapply as needed. And it looks like the sidearm of an Imperial Stormtrooper. What’s not to like? But they’d have to workout the kinks before you’d pay $1200.
My “high speed” combat shotgun is my 930 SPX. In 500 plus rounds, I have not had a single jam from birdshot to buckshot to slugs. My buddy’s 930
jammed with lightweight Fiochhi birdshot 7/8 or 1 oz #8 loads. When he switched to 1 1/8 ounce loads. For $700, a 930 SPX would be much faster Nd more reliable than the KSG in Mac’s video. The real world speed, accuracy, and firepower of the 930 is definitely great. Ditto with a good Rem 870 or Mossy 500.
I held a KSG and a POF 415 AR at a gun shop. The POF is arguably the finest AR in production. The KSG definitely is not.
I’ve settled on a 930 SPX JM Pro as my next shotgun. Too bad the rest of my 2013 budget is going towards “assault weapon” receivers…
I’ve been posting about my KSG in the FFZ. I haven’t fired it yet (sights & accessories are still en route), but I’ve played with it a fair amount, and I’m starting to get a feel for it’s overall character.
If I had to stake my life on a pump shotgun, I don’t think the KSG would be it. At least not yet. As much as I can say with certainty so far is that my 590 is far more intuitive to use. Ergonomics and tactical reloads are quick and dead simple on the Mossberg, and I have no doubt I could operate it well under stress. The KSG has a learning curve.
That said, I’m still really excited about the KSG as a secondary shotgun / range toy, and if it proves itself it may yet become my go-to home defense weapon.
If you look deeper at the reviews you will see they all admit its mostly operator error. Do they have a new manual of arms, sure but so did stoners plastic contraption. Am I saying they are as good. Nope. And does Kel-tech have some QC problems, yep. But I have one and boy does it run, and run well. And this is from a guy who’s favorite guns are my SAAs, and my stoger SxS I shoot for cowboy. Instead of parroting the party line, give things a chance. I know this will fall on def ears just like glock vs 1911 or 9mm vs. 45. It’s the true way of the gun.
I was careful not to slam the KSG. I don’t own one, so not a big believer in slamming things I don’t have personal hands-on experience with. There are some obvious limitations for me I can see however without owning one, such as SpeleoFool has stated: it’s just not instinctive for me, as a traditional layout is, and I’m not sure any possible advantage it may have outweighs that alone – not to mention all of the other concerns raised by some pretty reliable folks who have experience with it. I’m not sure if you can call MAC’s experience ‘operator error’. He’s a pretty experienced shooter (understatement).
There is in fact only one kel tec I can recommend, and that is the Sub2000. I own 2 of them (a 9mm and a 40, both paired up with Glocks of the same caliber). While they definitely have their limitations (bolt doesn’t lock open on last round, plastic sites, plastic trigger, grip NEEDS a Hogue Hand-all), they have both been totally reliable, fairly accurate and it’s practicality (in it’s niche of course) makes it a pretty sweet little piece for the money. They are basically like finding unicorns however, of which I managed to find two, and for a reasonable price of 429.
I think many people wanted the KSG to be everything they hoped it would be – and it’s understandable, based on the information out there, to assume that it has not met (or exceeded) that expectation.
Hopefully video embed works (first time I’ve tried it):
A couple quick specifics, both of which can be noted in the attached video: http://youtu.be/oKKyXATF0rk
First, one of the biggest learning curve issues is that the KSG is really awkward to reload. With the 590 I can push new shells into the magazine or pull the slide back and toss one in the side, all without looking. With the KSG you pretty much need to flip it over; reloading is a slow, cumbersome process.
I’m pretty excited about the Button Sling for the KSG (demonstrated in video) because of how it allows the KSG to drop into a ready and very-easy-to-reload position. It looks like it will go a long way towards helping the awkward reloads. If you’re wearing the sling. And if you need to reload after 14+1 rounds. Value for practical home defense? Who knows? But for general range use and whatnot it seems like it will fix my single biggest gripe with my KSG so far and allow the “fun” to shine.
Second, re: the possibility of “operator error” by MAC, perhaps Tim’s wealth of experience is acting to his detriment. In my experience with the KSG so far, the only way I’m consistently beating my wrist up with ejected snap caps is if I pull my shooting arm in low & tight. That’s probably a better habit in general (and, incidentally, is preferred hold for the Tavor, which Tim has been shooting a lot lately), because it makes for a more stable shooting platform. However, the rear-heavy balance of the KSG does not require that hold for good stability. Take a close look at the shooter in the video, and notice how his elbow is up when he rapid-fires the KSG. Your wrist doesn’t get hit by shells this way.
Ugh. Formatting messed up and comment editor would not let me edit. 🙂 You’ll have to copy the YouTube URL from the text above to watch the Button Sling video.
Yeah, the button sling does look promising, Speleo… and as much as I respect MAC (Tim), no one person’s experience trumps all. I think MAC would be the first dude to state that. I guess for me personally, I already have my ideal HD/combat/competition shottie, so I’m not looking for another. But I could see how KSG would make for some fun at the range. Bet it would certainly turn some eyes. (and hopefully not Farago’s Ex’s eye while she muzzles you with her heater lol)
My Button Sling was in the mailbox today. I tried it out, and it’s a winner. It functions just like I expected from the video; the KSG hangs where you can look straight down at the mag tubes and quickly reload. Even reload-by-feel is much better and should become second nature with practice. That was money well spent!
@Speleo: I fixed your YouTube link. FYI, embedded YouTube videos frequently break mobile browsers, so it’s better if you just hotlink them. To do that, just lop the http:// off the front of the pasted link, so it starts with www.
As a note, even MAC has made mistakes. Am I saying he did or didn’t with his KSG video? No. But I am saying, he has made mistakes in his video reviews in the past. The Sig 556r and the armor videos come to mind. My point? No one is infallible or perfect, especially in the “YT Video Review” world.
There is one obvious handling error made repeatedly in the video. Instead of maintaining a forward (light) pull on the fore-end pistol grip, he allows it to float back an inch or two as he fires. His racking stroke therefore begins with the possibility that the linkage is not in the optimal position at the start. (On the other hand, that sort of loose linkage shouldn’t exist on a pump design…).
Yup. Think MAC would be the first to admit he’s human. Didn’t see the armor vid. And certainly didn’t base my opinion on any specific video/review. Don’t think ‘operator error’ was responsible for the FTF’s that both he and the other dude were having with that particular KSG though, regardless of the shell ejection/wrist issue. I’ve consistently refrained from blasting the thing, but have to say that I wouldn’t trade my $700 SPX for a KSG, regardless of their current price – and even if they made it out of stainless and threw in a couple PF9’s, a 32 ounce soda and a handful of PMAG40’s (just to piss of Diane Fstein and Herr Bloomberg).
Here in Kahlifornia, slightly used KSGs priced at $1800 and above are snapped up within minutes of the “for sale” posting. Lots of mall ninjas willing to pay whatever asking price to have the latest and coolest unproven, inconsistently reliable hardware.
As a note, the shotgun use to be less than $600 dealer cost (I want to say it was like $450-500, but my memory is fuzzy). Even now, they are $750-$850 range. Anyone charging more, is ripping you off…..
At Shot 2011 when the KSG was shown, Kel-tec said it would be around 700 MSRP. Shot 2012 passed by and it still wasn’t out. When it was finally out, prices were north of $1200, nationally. Then Sandy Hook happened and things went nuclear. Do a quick search on Gunbroker right now. Prices are still up there in the pre-panic levels for the most part.
Really? Last time I saw one for sale in the Bay Area, it was marked with a retail asking price of ~$1200.
MKA-1919-XN > KSG 12 (or Saiga)
Seriously? IIRC, the MKA-1919-XN has inconsistent reliability and quality issues of its own. Just as bad as the KSG or UTAS.
Release the KSG in stainless steel with one tube mag (7+1), improve the slickness of the action (my cheap-o 870 Express felt nicer right out of the box) and slash about $400 off the price and you have my interest.
Until then, it’s an unreliable and overcomplicated range toy with a couple neat gimmicks. Not a serious home defense shotgun.
Price is a huge problem with me for the KSG. For that kind of money I can buy 2 or 3 Remingotn 870s or Mossberg 590s and have even more rounds at the ready, to do a new york reload.
Or for that amount of money I can get a custom made Saiga 12 and have even quicker reloads than the KSG and semi auto to boot.
If the KSG were cheap enough like 700 or less I might consider one for the novelty of it but otherwise it falls right into my meh list.
Lol. That’s exactly how I priced the KSG–in terms of Mossberg 500’s. When panic prices were in full swing I imagined stashing a 500 or two in every room of the house and using them as thrown weapons when they ran dry. 🙂
Seems like a lot of KSG haters out there. I can speak from my own experience though. I have one that I picked up in January 2012 for $725.00 and it is awesome and has been very reliable or at least it has been for me. Very fun to shoot. I do not find the recoil to be bad with the Carlson Comps muzzle device and being able to switch tubes depending on what the situation may call for (00 buck or slugs, etc) is a plus. The 26″ overall length is great for home defense and rounding corners. Just my opinion, based off my year and a half experience owning one. That said, I did get mine for $725.00, I wouldn’t pay $2400.00 for one, like they were going for this past January, but I don’t think $1000.00 is unreasonable.
Part of the beauty of a pump-action is the an ultra-simple design that refuses to jam no matter how dry or dirty it gets. Just ask the idiots who robbed Kaplan Brother’s Blue Flame. What good is there in complicating the design and tripling the price?
Does anyone have any hands on experience with the UTAS UTS 15? I’m not going to throw down the cash for this bullpup shotgun either. I’m just curious how it measures up the the KSG
Visit youtube for various reviews. Same as the KSG, mix bag of reliability and quality.
I’ve seen the various YouTube reviews. I was just curious if any TTAG readers had hands on and shot one. I’ve held one, but haven’t had the chance to shoot one.
Yes, on a variety of KelTec products. They are hardly worth the dealer cost (which I get them at), let alone the inflated price.
I was leaning quite strongly toward buying one, but after reading a LOT of reviews, and with Tim of MAC weighing in with the final lousy review, I would not touch one now.
Also, my son has a Kel Tec handgun and it is crap.
I wouldn’t pay for one, period.
I’ll stick to my Saiga and Benelli shotguns.
No way. Saiga or 870 for me.
A little late to the party here, but here is my 2 cents. My father worked in Attica, N.Y. for 25 years and was a member of their CERT (Correctional Emergency Response Team) for a number of his years there. He would always tell me that the 870 is one of the most intimidating guns to an inmate. The rack alone is enough to make a hostile inmate drop faster than bag of bricks. When I showed him this video he laughed and said that never will a CO put his life on the line with a plastic shotgun like this, regardless of the capacity. In fact, the capacity aspect is squashed by the fact that a CO will NEVER be by himself in GenPop with a firearm. He will ALWAYS be in a team of at least six officers and three of them will have 870’s doing tactical engagement. Like i said, my 2 cents.
I bought one from a local gun store recently. I think I watched every video and read every review but didn’t think I would ever see one at one of my regular stores. There it was, you could barely see it and if you didn’t know what it was, I doubt anyone would ask to see it. They also had a Taurus 9mm which was interesting. Anyway, I bought it for fun. I am new to shooting and find running a pump shotgun to be much more fun than anything else. So as I am leaving, they tell me about the Aguila minishells. 10 rounds in each tube? unreal. So my other local gun store actually has the minishells so I bought some.
So far only 1 range session but I was very happy with it.
cheap birdshot no problems
minishells Shot 40 rounds no issues (was almost gassed out though, lots of smoke)
Winchester slugs no issue except for the pain
Remington Buckshot and slugs it would hang a bit when you tried to rack it, I didn’t want to force it but once I figured out what was causing it, a bit more muscle was all it took. I expect that it will work itself out but if not, I will try other brands.
Other than that no issues with the shotgun.
I did short rack it once but since your chin is right on the action, you can tell no shell came out so I reracked it by reflex which was a little spooky.
I had gloves on and don’t recall being hit with the shells (part of the fun anyway) or maybe my shoulder hurt so bad I didn’t notice.
I did have trouble cycling my crappy snap caps so I need to buy new ones. When I use snap caps, they hit me in the stomach
So from here, I plan on a few more range sessions to see if I can really rely on it. With the minishells, it can be a great room to room home defense firearm. If you miss, they will gag on the fumes anyway.
Heres my take on Kel-Tec CNC, having never owned one of their products myself.
The fact that they still keep the CNC in their name suggests to me that they didnt always make weapons, but more likely made parts for other manufacturers, and decided to make their own (simmilar to LWRC). My shop is headed in that direction, and here are some problems I have seen on the floor of a one-off machine shop transitioning to long term production.
-Constant testing and review leads to revisions, these revisions dont make it to finished parts for months, and longer to reach a finished firearm on the assembly line.
-Tooling is constantly wearing, unlike castings or stampings, two parts are never the same, not just for size but location of features. Bits wear out, and drills lead off.
-Undertrained staff, however, is probably the biggest problem with such an operation. Dont mistake KTs low weapons output for marketing; trust me, they want to move as many weapons as possible immediately. Sure, the price of the KSG is high, but KT charging 1200$ a piece at, say, 300 a year, is much worse than 600$ a piece at 600 a year. There are so many costs involved in making each part of that weapon that low numbers and high costs does not add up to high profits. They most likely want to make and sell a ton of guns, but cannot due to personel skill and attendance.
I really liked the idea of the KSG, but from what I have read and seen, I most likely wont buy one. My choice would be Saiga, since I have more than 600 rounds through my Rommy AK and not a single problem.
I’ve had one for about 4 weeks now. Not sure why there are so many haters on this firearm.
I’ve got over 800 rounds down range with this firearm and it has not a single issue taking whatever I throw at it; slugs, birdshot, full load, target load, etc.
Reliable? Just as reliable as my 870.
Maneuverable? Lightweight and short, much more nimble than any shotgun I’ve owned.
Recoil? It’s a 12 guage, put your big girl undies on.
I’ve seen the reviews/videos of good/bad and the only thing I can vouch is that I have this shottie, I got it for $949 at a local shop. And that it has been nothing but a blast to shoot and it’s just as reliable as any firearm I’ve owned.
The KSG is new and scarce enough that most people have never seen or laid hands on one. So, what they have to go by are spotty online reviews, Kel Tec’s spotty reputation for quality and workmanship, and anecdotal stories from Internet guys that either agree the KSG is bad or are easy to dismiss since the authors have no established reputation that would challenge confirmation bias that the KSG is anything but a novelty not to be taken seriously.
I’ve had my (original) KSG for a couple months now, and no prior experience with other Kel Tec firearms. I’ve read a lot of bad reviews of Kel Tec and the PF9, especially, here on TTAG. I’d also been looking for the KSG for well over two years and have probably watched / read every review of it on the Internet at least twice. There are a lot of negative reviews, although it’s fair to point out that many of those were based on early models and Kel Tec has subtly refined the design a couple times to address many of the issues in the early reviews. Still, MAC’s very recent video panned the KSG, and many people (myself included) consider MAC a decently reliable source for gun reviews. I imagine that video settled the debate for a lot of people, and may be a major reason for negative attitudes toward the KSG.
I have to say I was nervous about my KSG, especially after having problems cycling snap caps before I found an opportunity to go shoot it. Now that I have taken it out, though, I agree 100% with your review. The KSG is a blast to shoot, and has been as perfectly reliable as my 590. In addition, it’s extremely maneuverable, especially indoors as a home defense gun. People hating on the KSG, especially without having shot one, don’t know what they’re missing!
I absolutely agree with this review from Ed. I bought a 2nd Gen KSG about 2 weeks ago, and if you know how to properly cycle the pump on the shot gun and not “short stroke” it like the guy I watched on the MAC videos, it works just fine. It is tight when new, but after 2 boxes of ammo its pretty smooth if your form is smooth. If you treat it like a whore, it will jam. I love mine and the only recommendation would be to buy 2 or 3 extra pins for when you break it down to clean, they are still tight and I want spares just in case.
Most of the reviews I have seen that are negative are with people that don’t own a KSG and see it as an ugly red headed step child or had bad form in shooting on videos I watched, trying to cycle it way too fast and reckless. If you are concerned about them being too expensive, shop around. They are affordable. Mine was $950. As far as KelTec customer service, I did send them an email 3 days ago and have yet to hear from them, but, most American manufacturers of ANY product are awful at customer service these days.
My suggestion is learn about the (any) weapon from a reputable gun shop, not the internet. Shoot the product in a controlled environment with someone that knows the weapon. Then make a decision to buy it or bash it. If I said that I wouldn’t buy a new weapon because I liked my other gun better, I would only own my great grandpa’s 20 gauge side by side.
Like everyone else I have seen the mixed reviews about the KSG and the myrid of problems associated with the weapon and poor construction. I came across one recently at a local gunshow and purchased it on an impulse…I was well prepared to be disappointed.
In fact, I was more than pleased with its performance and reliability.
I have always been a Remmington 870 fan, I live in a very rural area and my shotgun rides in a rack on my UTV as I explore the woods or poke about on my farm. I keep one besides my bed for emergencies and with my former military and law enforcement training I have always felt this was the best choice for me and my life-style. I had no intention of replacing my 870’s as a “go-to” weapon, with the KSG, it was just a novelty, something different.
From the beginning I added a pistol grip with integrated LED light on the slide, mounted as far forward as possible. I included the flip-up buis sights and a red-dot scope (no magnification) intended specifically for shotguns. I field stripped the weapon, cleaned it thouroughly and lightly honed some of the sharp edges on the magazine tubes.
I sighted the sights in with slugs, and found the recoil was pretty sharp, it left an ugly bruise on my shoulder. A slip on gel-filled recoil pad solved that dillema.
Over the next couple of days I fed over 500 rounds through the Kel Tec KSG using 2 and 2/3 inch buckshot, slugs, #4 shot and a variety of lighter loads. Maybey because of the substantial pistol grip I mounted well forward I experienced no problem with short-stroking, I had not a single failure to feed nor a jam. The weapon patterned reasonably well even with the cheaper ammo, performed reliably, and functioned perfectly! For preventative maintenance I simply ran a bore snake through the barrel and wiped down the internals after removing the butstock and bolt carrier. I found the take down pins worked well and it was easy to disassemble and put back together. I have yet to do a full disassembly further than that.
Loading and operating the selector lever did take some practice, but once mastered it did not pose a serious problem and in fact I have found advantages to this set up. I have never had a single issue of spent rounds striking my wrist, in fact I have never ever even noticed the ejected hull until after a string of fire and their would be a small pile at my feet. Completely unnoticed…no problems there!
I found the safety/fire selector switch to be intuitive and just stiff enough to be practical, I like the ambidexterous design of the weapon and prefer the slide release over that of my 870s. It works well and without fault.
Perhapse the greatest advantage is its short length. Before I had to keep my 870s in a gunrack on my Rhino. To use the weapon I had to stop the vehicle, get out, unstrap the shotgun, and by then whatever varmint I was after was long gone. The KSG is small enough it can either sit in my lap or on a verticle clip and can easily be employed from the cab without bumping into things or getting caught up. For home defense I can clear a corner easily and due to its ambidexterous design can easily switch arms to present a lower profile.
The weapon fires quickly without any faults, it fits well within my shoulder and has an intuitive feel to it that I appeciate. Maybe due to the bull-pup design I have also noticed considerably less muzzle flip and my time on target is faster and I can place more rounds where I need them to be.
I should also add that my KSG is one of the later generations, with the moulded hand guard at the front of the slide and the winess holes on the magazine tubes (Maybe this is the reason for its good performance versus some of the 2011 reviews?)
In short I am so pleased with this weapon that I have done the unthinkable; I have replaced my beloved 870s, put aside almost 30 years of experience and history, and now use the KSG exclusively. I even tracked down and bought a second one for my son and he has had similar experiences with his as I have had with mine. He is an avid backpaker in the wilds and he straps his to his tube packframe, it fits securely and snuggly to his backpack due to its short length and he loves it! (Also makes dad feel more secure knowing that he is adequtely protected in bear country.)
My brother is a sheriff deputy as well as his fiance…I am in the process of ordering two more for them as well. That is how much I think of this weapon!
So in short, while there are a lot of negative reviews out there, and perhapse my son and I just “lucked out” with the quality, reliability, and dependability of our weapons; I would still recommend this firearm to friends and loved ones.
I agree with ya 100%. Mine is a gen 2 and I have had zero problems with it. Got mine for a tad over $900. Little pricey? Yes, but I figure it might be worth more one day. Look at the AK pistols, mine is worth twice what I paid for it. But it is like the KSG, is it really practical for anything, not really. But I like em, and that’s all that really matters. That’s why you have so many professional sports teams. “Variety” ! Now I cannot see how anyone would pull for the “Redskins”? Not when you can cheer for the best, “Cowboys” ! Now, see where this is going! The same thing with guns! If you get down to it, the little ole “22” is most likely the best all around weapon ever. Just my opinion! (LOL, the Redskins ain’t that bad).
I know I posted a long comment, but I wish to add more for those considering this weapon…
I “use” my guns, alot. I am not a range shooter, my weapons are not safe-queens. I live in a very dense coastal mountain range of mostly noble fir trees and I back-sling my KSG as I am cutting firewood, it has gotton very wet, picked up lots of stray wood chips from the chainsaw, gets tossed into the UTV and then still shoots reliably, every time, all the time. The finish has well withstood this use and abuse, my maintenance is mostly as I described above, a bore snake down the barrel and a quick swipe of the internals with a rag.
My KSG due to its size and weight, the ability toload slugs in one tube and shot in another has proven up to the task. I love my son more than anything, he loves nature and the wilds and I often worry about him, I feel so much better knowing he has this weapon with him.
I am also a marine combat veteran, 100% disability, and my mobility is somewhat hindered due to my age and my wounds, yet I find this weapon easy to operate and employ, very practical, and once a good recoil pad was mounted very shootable.
I am not the type of guy who buy’s into fads or hype, I have never liked the M-16/M-4 weapons system, I have prefered instead the reliability of a highly modified MAK90/AK-47 system (Anyone else have problems with a direct blow-back shooting carbon and other crap directly into the action or have a gas tube heat up and seperate turning your assault rifle into a single shot during a fire fight?…I have). However, due the nature of the dense woodland and mountains inwhich I make my home the shotgun is the superior choice for me. At the close ranges I encounter the lack of a choke is not a problem, the reliability and durability of this weapon is its greatest asset. The fact that I am willing to spend $1300 for each weapon to arm my son and other family members is not to be taken lightly…I just think that much of this platform and its capabilities!
I hopes this helps those of you considering this weapon, I have never written a gun revie before but have felt compelled to share my experience.
I’d buy one right now for $500. My cap would be $700. I watch them come and go into a few websites. I let the fanatics swoop all the expensive ones up first and I’ll wait for price to fall over time.
Guy’s I’ve been reading and shooting for a while now, Shooting the KSG for a while that is, it sounds like everyone is taking some reviews as gospel no matter who the reviewer, if I made every purchase on some of these reviews I wouldn’t own a gun. You guy’s listen to some of these reviews like these guy’s are the top experts on shotguns, no offence but wow it makes me wonder..lol
Some of you guy’s don’t even own the gun, WHAT? really so I guess you all based you’re expert opinions on some of these reviewer experts on YouTube.. wow really scary, anyway and some sound like they work for Saiga, I own a Saiga, yes they jam too. really???? Ok so my KSG has been flawless with over 500 rounds down range, what problems I’ve had were operator error.
The plain simple fact is this shotgun operates different from every other pump shotgun in the world and you need to operate the shotgun as intended, not as if your running an 870. But if you don’t own one how in the world could any of you have a credible opinion on one. I’ve never quite read such BS in my life, I guess its true, you can’t trust everything you read on the internet.. lol
As far as things breaking on the gun, well you be the judge, how in the world do you rip off the entire rail, I don’t care how crappy the plastic is, who was operating it the Incredible Hulk.. lol
The fact is you need to get used to this weapon and operate it correctly.
Yes there have been some issues, the one with concern would be the double feed issue but I haven’t seen that in over 500 rounds, KT did say this was fixed. You Saiga salesmen go buy one, the one I bought had a bent plastic stock, yeah there’s some quality control for ya. Please the KSG is a working shotgun with a huge amount of potential and for me has run great with what ever I’ve run in it.
Don’t take it from me, put your money where you mouths are buy one shoot it and then review with a little intelligence and experience behind it, for those of you who are on the fence try and take things with a grain of salt, some of these reviewers are clearly not up to the challenge of doing a real educated review on the KSG Shotgun.
I totally agree with you. Out of the first 20 comments posted, there was only one KSG owner. Really? 1? And his assessment was positive. I owned an SPX and it is a great shotgun but trying to maneuver a long-gun in tight hallways at home is a tough thing to do. I watched all the CorSpecOps vids on YouTube and those guys torture tested the KSG like no one I’ve seen. If you watch the video carefully, they short chucked it many times and were able to work through it. Anyone that’s owned a pump has short chucked it at one time or another but none will admit it here. I have an 870 Tactical and it happens! Buy one, if it’s crap then criticize it to hearts content; I don’t have a problem with an owner’s honest criticism. jr
I purchased one and really enjoy it, as long as you don’t short stroke it you won’t have a problem. I have put hundreds of rounds through it with no issues . I have watched all the videos on you tube and have noticed that most of the time when it jams is because of short stroking or babying the pumping mechanism. I also own a Benelli M2 which is a great gun but its like comparing apples and oranges.
I love the design, but it is still a Kel-Tec, guys. I will look elsewhere for a bullpup shotgun.
I will just say I have an 870 and a KSG…I let a new (like these were the first shot guns he ever fired new) gun user fire both. He had a failure to feed with both, because he was short stroking them. It may operate a bit different than the norm but the KSG has never had a fail in my hands, about 700 rounds of fun. The KSG now sits near the bed because of the capacity and maneuverability in the home. Also as far as loading it quickly… angle it butt stock up, barrel toward ground, hold it from the top with your weak hand, and you can quickly load with your strong hand with speed and ease. So in a nut shell if you learn to use your firearm how it needs it will run how you need. Oh and it also runs the 1.5 inch shells on the market, and it hold 26 (I think)of those with out a reload 🙂
Military Arms Channel or “MAC” on youtube put out a horrible video representation of this awesome weapon. If you limp wrist a block, it will jam. If you short stroke a pump like you are afraid to break it, it wont cycle. The KSG is no different. If you dont know how to shoot a shotgun, this probably wont work for you… If you man up, it will do nothing but put a smile on your face. I am now well over 1000 rounds of 2 3/4 and 3″ mag slugs, bird AND buck shot without a SINGLE malfunction. Try that with a Mossberg 500/590/870… It wont jam either if you know what youre doing.
To all of the internet “gurus” with falsified opinions based on other’s reviews ( whom base their reviews off of others’ reviews with no merit ) I challenge you to shut your mouths and go SHOOT WHAT YOU’RE REVIEWING!!!! If you dont know anything about it, shut up. Simple.
My P-3AT was a POS from hell. I hated KelTec after that.. this gun completely changed my views on it. If you favor a bullpup design and love high firepower in a compact design thats awesome to shoot, dont hesitate.
People are bagging on this thing like its Intratec’s Street-Sweeper or something.
Give me two Saiga 12’s.. I’d sell them and buy another KSG. Good to know you all love Red Jacket so much though.. cute, broseph.
To be honest with everyone here, Kel-Tec seems to be a hit or miss on the product. It could be their production operations from what I hear. I personally own a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 in Glock 9mm and would NEVER sell it. It works flawlessly, even with Aluminum (which they warn of). I also owned a P11 (which worked well, but the trigger pull was hideous) so I sold that for $200 as it was the parkerized model (all I buy). I did get the Sub 2000 in chromed version (basically looks like finished aluminum rather than chrome) but Kel-Tec made it right and PARKERIZED IT at NO COST to me. That’s just awesome and they do have decent customer service. I bought the goofy quad rails (bad idea) but decided to take them off and send them back as they made the firearm unbalanced. I only had the P11 as a secondary concealed carry (and it was reliable and with the trigger pull, likely a good idea in a tense situation) but when you practice for this, the trigger was too much in the end. I was hoping to eventually find a Sub 2000 for it (the Kel-Tec version but I hear they were only made for employees there – probably true) or maybe see if I could find the S&W version which had compatible mags too. Reasoning was that my Glock duty would be far more accurate with the special duty RRLP 9mm (I work in cyber defense) and with increased accuracy, penetration, range and reliability – which it does have that in a serious situation could be useful. I also like that it surprises the crap out of people when they think I am an ‘eco man’ in a Prius then pull this out from under my seat.
I do have a Legion Saiga 12 (which I fully modified) and it’s bad to the bone, but is not very practical for everyday trunk carry. I find the KSG to meet that requirement but I know it can be painful to shoot with duty loads in 00 buckshot. The nice feature is that is that I don’t need to register it as an SBS and put it into trust and all that nonsense like I would with the Saiga if I shortened the barrel. I’m pretty sure that if the KSG was sent back to them with, this occurred and documented well – they would fix it as they have my Sub 2000 when it started to shoot really dirty. This is common anyway with 33rd mags but it is highly accurate and with the right loads – it’s damn deadly. So deadly I was shooting one day after duty at a local range and ended up next to a VP of the sister range that was opening. She shot it and loved it so much that they bought 50+ KSG models in various colors and they sold out from pre-Grand Opening to a week later at Grand Opening. Now all they have is the demo to shoot and it’s a waiting list. I’m not giving up my Saiga but I have enough AR rifles or could produce enough of them that a KSG would be a nice addition for when you needed one. People talk about needing all these rounds is BS. Unless you are in a ‘combat zone’ you will never need that many rounds and if you do, you will likely be able to reload with a secondary weapon as light as the KSG is.
I think people really need to evaluate – use the right tool for the right job. If I want you dead, I’ll use the Remington 870, Benelli or Saiga 12. If I need to defend myself for an unexpected person with a Saiga 12, I can take him down father out with my Sub 2000 or should they be up and close after they squeeze off too much ammuntion, I will use the KSG. It is unlikely you will need anything but those two tubes and being able to keep either separate is nice for functionality. I think this article and those here may have truly had issues nonetheless, it sells out to millionaires quick, I watched it and I know what they make as they live around me and do business with me (as an ammo FFL which my family owns). I know what I know and that is all I can say about any of that. Carry what you wish, be trained to use it properly when the need arises and hopefully – you and the other won’t need to use it at all – best outcome and solution for all involved. My six ‘senses’, not two cents here…
Concerning the KEL TEC, ( KSG ), Bull-Pup Shotgun…., The action on this shotgun IS stiff, at first, but it definately smoothes out after firing a few boxes of shells through it. This gun, I have found, to be VERY reliable. I had heard, that the earlier coppies had some issues with them, but the ones manufactured AFTER the first quarter of 2013, have been very good shotguns, and ALL ” ISSUES ” with this firearm have been addressed, and resolved. I had looked into this situation, and found it to be genuine, so much so, that I purchased one, and it is one of my favorite firearms, AND utterly reliable.
Spend a little time with one. NO, it is NOT a convential type of ” PUMP ” shotgun, but once you HAVE spent a little time with it, you will wonder what all this ” NEGATIVE B. S. ” is about !
I have a 2nd(695.00) and 3rd gen(750.00), love them both.
They didn’t jam or have typical shotgun issues any more than any of my Remington or MMossbergs, and hella lot less than all 3 of my sagas!!!
Just like the rest, once thru break in period, 0% issues.
No more complicated than any others, just like the rest, theres an initial learning curve, (about 5 minutes) then it’s old school.
I’d take my ksg’s to Iraq & Afghanistan, as my experience showed me that the ksg works in urban setting better than the others.
Every saigas I’ve owned REQUIRED a decent amount of gunsmithing to work around all its inherent flaws.
The only thing is irritating is getting pinged on the wrist bone.
There’s two crowds, for and against.
I’m for the ksg.
But then again, I’m not one of those biased idiots on YouTube that take one out of its box, toy with its mechanics, then bitch that it’s not working right.
Um not brand loyal, I only care if it’s functional and has a purpose. Then, I look to see if it has capabilities in my gun competitions.
The ksg is that.
I’ve had the KSG for just over a year now and put about 500 rounds through it. Anything from light bird shot to slugs and everything in-between. It eats everything flawlessly. Went to the range with a buddy and his new Saiga 12 and his wouldn’t feed anything. We had all kinds of loads and it wouldn’t take any of them. Now I’m sure the Saiga can be “adjusted” but the KSG was perfect out of the box. I love that gun.
bought my ksg last moth for $819 at springhill outfitters in selma, nc.
after the magpul flips, and a truglo titan tactical, it tips the scale at about 1k.
bought my saiga 12 for $550 – after the transfermation it’s a bit over 1k – so price is a wash – mags are pricey tho…
as fr as reliabilty – i haven’t had any issues – prep seems to be the key. with both guns, i thoroughly clened them, cycled them dry about 250 times, cleaned them again, lubed, wiped dry and then went to the range – no ftf/ftf, so..
won’t give up either one of them!!
I own a KSG and love it.
Price: it’s called a market, if you don’t like the price, you don’t have to buy it, apparently many people disagree with you though, otherwise they wouldn’t be selling at all, and they would drop the price.
Recoil: Do you really expect a super shorty shotgun in 12 gauge to shoot like a .22? It’s small and light, when you put in a full power buckshot or slugs, you’re going to know it went off.
Reliability: I’ve had no problems with mine and would venture to say that if its not working for you, you probably aren’t using it right. Shoot it, cycle it hard and fast, don’t short stroke it, and you won’t have problems. As a tip, if you are having problems, put on a forward pistol grip to help prevent short stroking. I’d bet my life on mine.
Comparison to other guns: Yes, it’s not a Saiga 12. But it is something no other factory shotgun is. 26 inches long. It’s the shortest long gun you can get that isn’t an NFA weapon. There is no state in the US where they are illegal. You may not have noticed, but it’s for urban combat. Inside buildings. What do you want to step through a doorway with, a 26 inch long weapon or a 40 inch long weapon. Here’s a hint, it’s much easier to maintain control of the shorter weapon in tight spaces.
In summary, I know it doesn’t look like grandpas model 12 or 870. It’s purpose made for a specific environment and I challenge you to find a true competitor that is 50 state legal and not an NFA weapon. You don’t have to buy one. I should actually encourage you people to keep shitting on them to keep prices down and keep me in he superior weaponry category, but the truth is it works. I challenge anyone with a supposed “piece of shit” to let me use it, it won’t malfunction on me, unless you have altered it from stock.
Update us when you become involved in some urban combat to prove the KSG’s mettle. Some operators would love to hear this. Also, when your KSG hits the round count of 40,000, let us know how it’s held up. Looking forward to the update.
I am a KelTec fan specifically for their rifles and the KSG. I saw my first KelTec, the Sub 2000, at a GSL.COM (GunsSaveLife.com), of which I’m a member. I was so impressed that I knew I wanted one. When the SU 16C came available, I took that instead. Then a KSG came up for a drawing recently. I fell in love again. I bought one and have absolutely no regrets. There is a learning curve to it but I enjoy shooting with it. I am changing to the low recoil shells because firing 12 gauge 00 buck is still painful if you cycle too fast. But again any 12 GA that you fire 00 through it too fast is going to hurt. That is the reason I got rid of my Mossburg 12ga and bought a 20 GA 870. I still want the the KelTec RFB because most of my rifles are higher caliber types. Call me crazy but I’m selling my SA M1A Standard Issue to get the RFB. I still have my SA Squad Scout and will keep it.
I lot of people are critical of KelTec and their products but enjoy shooting them. My brother in law would keep my SU 16C if he could. He loves that rifle, so do i.
The KSG seemed like a good idea at the time, but it has not caught on. After a couple of years to wring these out, one thing I’ve noticed on the 4-sale sections of gun forums I frequent and of people I personally know. Folks are selling these for $800 (where they paid $1250 to $1800 to snag one of the early ones) and now are having a hard time unloading them. Why? Seems they are happier with their 870’s, 500’s, and 5901’s. What does that tell you?
Hi, Do you know of any police/agencies that actually utilize the KSG?
if so would you be kind enough to drop me a line? Thank you very much. Mark Shean
I left a couple of earlier posts, but since the comments on this article are still fresh I thought I would provide an update…
I now have purchased five, yes 5! of the KSGs. The first was what I would call a gen1+ as it only had the single witness hole, but the trigger would return to battery. I paid $1400 for that one, but price has steadily come down and I can get them for $850 now as the supply meets demand. I have kept the first two KSGs I purchased for myself and the others have gone to immediate family members.
I live in a rural area, spend much of my days shooting on my own range and have completely lost count of how many rounds I have run through my KSGs. I have gone through many many ammo cans of slugs, buckshot, and #4 shot with these weapons without a single failure! I especially like the Herter’s 1oz rifled slugs from Cabelas. (10 rounds for $6.99) I have ordered over 1,200 rounds from them in the past year and shot most of them. At 100 yard I can hit a man sized target with reliability, at 50 yards I can put all of the slugs in a six inch spot (head shots). I used this combination to take down a black bear and he dropped from a single round like he had been hit by a sledge hammer. (And 1oz at 1400 fps will do that!)
By personal KSGs have loosened up a bit, the follower springs are not so stiff anymore and the pins and take down pins are not so difficult to remove as they first were, but they still function flawlessly and have taken quite a bit of abuse at my hands. I do not coddle guns, I toss them in the back of my UTV and bounce along old logging roads. I carry them with my pack as I push through the brush, I lay ’em against a nearby tree as I cut firewood, often it gets covered in wood chips and saw dust, all I do is hake it off and it still shoots no problem. They have gotten wet, muddy, and just shaken out and they still work!
The other three KSGs get shot almost as much and none of them have had a single issue! They all sport a variety of sights, optics, lights and lasers, pistol grips, and rail mounts each to the user’s choice and all work! (My field gun, also my favorite, sports the simplest set-up, just a Magpul stubby forward pistol grip and Buis sights.)
That is five out of five KSGs now over the last three years, no issues whatsoever, I would say the quality is very good. I cannot comment on Keltech’s customer service as I have never had to send one back!
I will say this the KSG is an expensive shotgun to shoot. You will find yourself shooting it like a carbine and going through cases of shotgun shells. And at .69 cents per round they may not be the cheapest shooter out there but they are far from the most expensive.
What you will get if you buy the KSG is both the versatility and options of a shotgun and a weapon that is utterly effective out to 100 yards. The KSG is durable and robust, functions well if you shoot it well, and the compact size makes it a great camp gun or home defense weapon…opening up an entire new range of tactical possibilities.
And this brings me to my final point. All of the negative reviews out there by people who never owned this weapon or those ho clearly have no idea hot to shoot a pump shotgun. (Or maybe they just want it to fail and post a negative review because of their own bias?) I have never experienced shells striking my wrist nor has anyone I shoot with. I do not even see how that would be possible if the weapon is held properly. As far as failures to feed…any pump shotgun that is not fully cycled will have this problem! (Yes I am calling you out MAC! I have never seen such poor shotgun handling techniques, and you style yourself an expert? …or did you just want it to fail?) I have put a KSG in the hands of a female friend who has never shot a shotgun before with the simple instructions of “lean into it and pump it like you are angry!” Not only did she have no issues but she loved the weapon! Seeing a 25 yard target have huge gaping holes blasted through it is a big confidence builder for a novice shooter.
I really believe that most of the negative reviews come from a generation of tactical shotgun owners who have just seen their expensive shotguns made obsolete and are clutching at straws trying to find something wrong with this design.
They bitch about cost…Really? $850 is too much but you have no problem spending much more than that on your AR15 and all its doodads that you hang on it?
They complain about malfunctions and failure to feed…just shoot it like you would any other pump shotgun, aggressively. “stroke it like you are mad at it!”
They cite shot shells striking the wrist…for the life of me I do not even see how that is possible if held correctly. The empty hulls simply eject downwards under my armpit. I have NEVER EVER HAD THIS PROBLEM!
They claim it is cheaply made and of poor construction…really? So is the AK47 and it seems to do just fine! In fact it is the “expensive” custom versions that seem to have issues because it is the loose tolerances and stamped construction that makes this weapon reliable in the first place. Same with the KSG.
They complain about the grip pattern…the small squares are somehow bad? They work, give a solid grip, what the hell more do they want?
They allude that the weak hand is too close to the muzzle and that there is a danger of a catastrophic injury if your hand slips forward and you somehow manage to shoot yourself? (this one especially is funny!) …please explain to me how this would be even remotely possible?!
If you are reading this then please, disregard the negative campaign, get yourself one and I promise you will enjoy it!
This is a followup to a post I did concerning my newly purchased Keltec KSG. I have fired it several times and very pleased with it. I now keep it loaded mini slugs. I also recently purchased the Keltec RFB in the Hunter variant, in other words it has the 24 inch barrel. I’ve yet to fire it but will post my impressions.
Just wanted to add mu two cents as a person who did not purchase or review the KSG prior to owning one. I won one in a friends oi the NRA raffle so the price was great! That outta the way I was off to the range this morning with a 100 round box of the cheapest Winchester 71/2 birdshot I could find just because I had read a few posts saying these gave the most heartache in this little beast. Right out of the box with no preparation of the weapon other than to cycle and dry fire a couple of times, I started feeding it the cheapo shells. 100 rounds without a single mis-feed or failure to extract. Only two rounds that required a bit more umph to extract than the rest. If you pump this little gun like you mean it, it never failed me. On to some better fodder, Remington, Federal, Fiochi bird and buckshot also had no malfunctions at all. I even fed it some Aguila 1 1/4 inch mini shells in buckshot and it fed and ejected them without a hitch and it holds 21 of them little bad boys! All in all I had a ball with this weapon and would have no qualms whatsoever about using it for defense, pleasure or game. It doesn’t swing as naturally as my 870 for quick birds but would work well for rabbit or turkey especially in brushy close quarters. So, in summary, since I can’t complain about price, I would not hesitate to recommend this gun to anyone based on function. If price is your stopper then maybe it would not be my first choice but I would pay in the 600-700 dollar range just for the sheer fun it is to shoot and the endless possibilities for optics and grip furniture,
Correction to the afore post. It holds 25 of the mini shells. Crowd pleaser!
I have had my KSG now for a couple of years. I love it. I keep it loaded with mini shells. It has never failed to fire. I do not agree that it is shoddy made. I also own a SU16 .223 caliber and a RFB Hunter variant. Keltec prices are high because their production level is low. But to me worth every penny. I also own a Wingman terms 870 12 gauge made in 1973 that I was given as a Christmas gift in my youth. And I now own a Moss berg 12 gauge pump. But I like my KSG the best. As an Army Retiree, I own a few carbines. My KSG is my go to shotgun.
I recently purchased a KSG myself, and I’m extremely happy with it. I have no problem loading or ejecting shells from it, and I have yet to have an empty shell hit my arm. After buying the KSG and firing it, I actually sold my 870 tactical in favor of the KSG. If you’re looking for an all around home protection, tactical, and effective shotgun the KSG is a great weapon.
Two major flaws by dim witted people at Ketlek:
1. Go to a local gun store, grab a KSG off the shelf, and lightly slide the pump back…note the distance where it stopped…it stops SHORT. Now, using force, because it is bound up, pull it back as hard as you can until it jumps the nub thing in front of the trigger guard area (and ask yourself, WHY THAT CRAP IS EVEN THERE!?). Also, when it FINALLY jumps that damn thing, note how the slide release is forced down slightly, because the slide hits that as well. Now, note the angle of the slide…it is cranked in a downward angle at the trigger guard area due to this crap design.
Comments about #1 – Who over at Kel-Tek is this stupid, that they allow this design flaw? Worse, how come no one has any intelligence enough to fix it? I don’t get this king of stupidity…it is a VISUAL flaw, and one that can be felt when wracking the slide, which causes misfeeds, and forces people to wrack the hell out of them just to get it to work properly.
2. They are using some sort of super glue product instead of your typical loctite product. What this means, is that you can’t take the gun apart by any normal means…one has to use an air hammer on the end, with a very special adapter, just to force the nut off. Worse, they use this crap on other bolts as well, making it either near impossible to remove them, or completely damaging them from being used again (can’t get them back together now that they are apart by using massive amounts of force I might add.
Comments about #2 – Have these idiots taken apart their own guns ever? You would think they had to at least once, but the guy who does it is obviously too stupid to tell the assembly line guys to stop putting this crap on things with threads, which ruins them.
This company is just too stupid for me to do business with ever again, and although my KSG is now flawless given the mods I made to fix the shortcomings, it is just too much work and hassle.
James, I am going to get a KSG and would like to know all the mods that you preformed on it. I have access to a couple of good gunsmiths that I trust. Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated. contact me at [email protected]
There seem to be a lot of negative things said about the KSG. I own one and have put 200 rounds or so through it without a hitch. At 50yards I can make a fist sized group with Winchester slugs unsupported using iron sights. I see nothing to bitch about there. I got it for bear defense in Alaska while hiking and working. I will probably use it to hunt as well considering its accuracy.
I have owned my KSG for 3 years now and have put maybe 1000 rounds through it of slug and shot. I have never had a jamming or loading issue. The thing does kick like a mule (most bull-pups do), but if my 110lbs wife can handle it, I am sure all of you [email protected]$$’s can too. I also added a really basic red-dot to make it easier for her for home defense.
PROS: Lighter (fully loaded) than my M870, never have to reload (unless you are doing 3-gun comps or the zombie apocalypse has begun), shorter than most shotguns = easier to handle and less muscle fatigue, looks fkg awesome.
CONS: Lots of plastic (if you aren’t into that my 1911 friends), magazine switch is a bit awkward to reach (best to do it behind cover), kicks like a mule… a BIG mule (keep it tighter into the shoulder pocket), price is still too high.
Haters are always going to hate…it’s in their nature…lol :-O