New Covenant school shooting cross
Dan Beazley from Michigan walks with a cross across the plaza before a vigil held for victims of The Covenant School shooting on Wednesday, March 29, 2023, in Nashville, Tenn. (AP Photo/Wade Payne)
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The Bible is a lynchpin of the pro-gun movement. In every corner of our country, purportedly Christian leaders lean into the narrative that bearing arms is a God-given right – one that should not be restricted in any way. So, as our nation reels from yet another mass shooting — this time, a gunman killed three children and three adults at an elementary school in Nashville — far-right Christian leaders continue to loudly and proudly lead the charge to funnel more guns into our communities. 

More thoughts and prayers.

As the bodies pile up nationwide, so-called Christians are leading the cause to stop any meaningful restrictions on deadly weapons.

Just days ago, the Republican-led Florida House of Representatives passed a bill that would nix background checks and training to carry a concealed gun. A major champion of the legislation, Rep. Adam Botana, said this bill upholds “a constitutional God-given right endowed by our creator.”

A few weeks prior, Sen. Bill Cassidy of Louisiana helped introduce legislation that would reduce regulations on pistol braces – which can make guns easier to conceal. He stated, “Law-abiding gun owners should not be turned into criminals overnight for exercising their God-given right.” Meanwhile, Sen. Ted Budd of North Carolina, while slamming background checks for gun owners, once proclaimed, “Our right to life and liberty are absolutely God-given and that’s what the Second Amendment protects.”

Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin had the audacity to blame the Uvalde shootings on the “secularization of society” and the “loss of faith.” And rather than any calls for restricted guns, his solution was “renewed faith.”

“As a Christian, we talk about the church,” Rep. Tim Burchett, R-Tenn., said after this week’s shooting. “I’ve said this many times, I think we really need a revival in this country.” He went on to admit: “We’re not gonna fix it.” 

For conservative Christian politicians like these, God is a zealous gun advocate. That message is echoed by local leaders, pastors, community groups, and more across our nation. 

But as a theologian with deep biblical expertise, I must say, I’m struggling to find the part in the Bible about unlimited access to guns. I hate to break it to these “devoted” religious followers: The Bible says absolutely nothing about allowing people to run amuck with guns. It’s a completely ludicrous reading of the text. 

— Serene Jones in The “God-Given Right” to Guns Is a Cash-Fueled Sham

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232 COMMENTS

  1. It DOES mention evil people controlling and enslaving other people who’s only sin is having different ideals!!

    • If you want to understand Serene Jones in a sentence: Yale University chair of Women, Gender and Sexuality Studies in the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences.

      As for her being “a theologian with deep biblical expertise”, I’ll leave that for others to decide.

      • Hey, that’s DR. REVEREND
        Serene Jones, President and Johnston Family Professor for Religion and Democracy at Union Theological Seminary in the City of New York !
        …whoopee, and Al Sharpton is the leader of the Church of Sharpton.

        • The perp was a no show where there were schools with armed security. No excuses for a school with the obvious finances to fail at stopping a wimpy girl-man with mental problems.

          And now to add insult to injury here comes a blasphemous drama queen carrying around a large cross with a blasphemous load bearing wheel attached…all done on the behalf of Gun Control which is a History Confirmed agenda rooted in racism and genocide.

          Once again Gun Control sets the stage with soft targets and a perp criminally misuses a firearm to commit murder. Make no mistake about it, if the perp could have drove her gas sipper down crowded school hallways she would have.

          Violent perps will use anything they can get their hands on. If you want to be a soft target and help violent perps succeed it should be obvious all you have to do is bow down to Gun Control and surrender the arms you’ll definitely need to deal with perps hell bent on murdering you.

        • “And now to add insult to injury here comes a blasphemous drama queen carrying around a large cross with a blasphemous load bearing wheel attached… “

          I think you are mistaken.

          “Dan Beazley from Michigan walks with a cross across the plaza… “

      • fyi
        There are atheists who are chairman of religious study departments in universities.

    • “evil people controlling and enslaving other people who’s only sin is having different ideals“

      It’s certainly good to see someone else calling out the Hebrews for their unprovoked attacks on the Midianites, Canaanites, etc.

      Numbers 31:17-18 KJV

      “17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.”

      • 17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.”

        Is that the only one you know? You certainly quote it often enough… In fact most everything you post is a rehash of your previous posts… Makes one wonder if you and dacian can actually entertain an original thought…

        • MAXX,

          I haven’t entertained that question since about the third or fourth post MinorLiar made, and he’s only been getting worse since then. He’s got about four or five talking points, and repeats them ENDLESSLY . . . although I do have to grant that he at least tries to vary the language a little, unlike dacian the demented.

          MinorLiar is one of those poor unfortunates about whom it is said, “A new thought and a cold drink of water would kill that boy stone dead”. He is ignorant, indoctrinated, uneducated, simple-minded, repetitive, doctrinaire, (stupidly) dogmatic and wholly unoriginal. His only purpose is to provide a target for mockery and laughter (which he does very well).

        • SOME veryquick and easy questions and the answers are easy enough to find with a little research.
          One Has an increased availability of firearms led to a lessening of GUN CRIME and CRIME IN GENERAL in the USA or has it been commensurate with an INCREASE in Gun Crime and the deaths associated WITH GUNCRIME.
          Two. Has there been an INCREASE in the incidence of MASS SHOOTINGS commensurate with the increased availability of fire armsr or has there been a DECREASE.
          Three. Has there been anINCREASE or a DECREAS inthe incidences of SCHOOLSHOOTINGS commensureate withthe increase of availability of Firearms.
          Four. Is there ANY solid evidence tha the possession of a firearm
          renders the owner less likely or MORE likely to be a victim of Guncrime’
          Five.How is the number of ARMED GUARDS in a school calculated and what level,of CERTIFICATE TRAINING is REQUIRED and who pays for them. [lets make some educated summations here ‘for the average JUNIOR school lets say FOUR, Forthe average SECONDARY SCHOo which has a greter number of pupils lets sat six and for Senior School and Junior *olleges 8 at least to,mprovied all round cover. For the level of CERTIFICATED given recent Police records would have to exceed Poice acceptable Standards. Cost? for professionalpeople you have topay professional salaries and I would say that a median salary for professional School guards would be approaching $50Kpa or more. See where I’m going here? THenwe have to consider who will pay . Now I have a suggestiion, but before that lets cut it all in half because we all know that there is unlikley to be the ideal set up. But Nation wide the cost will STILL certainly be in the many $Billions. Now the SUGGESTION- A RING FENCED FEDERAL tax on gun ownership per firearm held according to type and calibre to pay for this . .

        • Albert L J Hall April 5, 2023 At 18:52

          WTF was THAT rambling jumble of butchered up grammar/spelling? And WTF does it have to do with THIS conversation?

        • Albert L J Hall, you are full of donkey dust! Crime in general is usually not violent. Most offenses involve a theft where no violence was involved only subterfuge. The most violent crime is assault and that is usually done with on weapon other than fists.
          Seems you have no clue, yet again. the most common weapon after fists is a tool (not a gun).

    • Serene Jones, the correct term is actually “run amok”. Please use-a da good Engrish for that people respekt yew.

      • Always thought “amuck” was that black shit you sink into when you walk in swamp…

  2. Jesus never had a rubber wheel on the cross he had to drag up Cavalry hill.

    Anyways –

    Going to Salon’s author page I found this :

    “Rev. Dr. Serene Jones is president of Union Theological Seminary, a globally recognized graduate school of religion devoted to putting faith into practice for the common good.”

    No agenda there, obviously… ;(

      • “Technically not the whole way,…”

        Details. Always those *pesky* details.

        Did I mention that the “Union Theological Seminary” is based in New York City?

        And here’s the charming ‘Dr.’ Jones :

        • …Reverend Doctor President?

          Stacking titles is a strong indicator that the person doing it is a pretentious twit who should not be taken seriously.

    • Union Theological Seminary, a globally recognized graduate school of religion

      A LIBERAL Christian College affiliated with Columbia University and located in Manhattan, NYC…

        • “Christian in name only“

          It seems I remember some relatively important person in the Christian faith saying something along the lines of “Judge not, lest ye be judged“

          Now who was it that said that, let’s see…

          Oh yes, here it is, a fellow named Jesus in Matthew 7:1

        • “Judge not, lest ye be judged“

          Funny coming from someone who spends every waking moment “judging” and disparaging others for THEIR beliefs…

        • MINOR Miner49er. You should practice what you preach? Seems you have been judging legal gun owners, haven’t you?

      • One would think that a minister in NYC (stupid enough to live in NYC) would have no trouble finding REAL problems for them to solve. But perhaps Bloomberg/Soros cash is talking.

        • (stupid enough to live in NYC)

          Most likely LIVES in Westchester County NY or Greenwich CT with all the other Limousine Liberals

    • UTS- “a globally recognized graduate school of religion devoted to putting faith into practice for the common good.” A globally recognised liberal leftist and unbelieving graduate school of “religion”… We know what you and your kind are about, Serene Jones.

  3. Just another idiot. Weapons and violence preceded the Christian bible and every religion by several thousand years. This jackass needs to check his arrogance at the gate.

      • As a theologian myself, self defense was established in the time of Moses as codified in Old Testament scripture. Also in the Ten Commandments, the commandment is to do no murder, not kill. Murder is not self defense.
        Life, Liberty, Property and happiness are gifts of God as established in God’s Law of creation/Natural Law. These rights need to be defended from time to time-especially now with the Marxocrats in power, seeking more power over our lives to bring in their false utopia, not the Kingdom of God. God also established a commandment that the Marxocrats do not hear: Thou shalt not steal. Marxism is pure unadulterated thievery of life, Liberty, property and happiness. And the Marxocrats are infected with it.

        • To add a post script, I am not sure what she means by “guns run amok.” Concealed carry, out of sight, with training and a permit does not meet the criteria of chaos that “run amok” signifies. Surely a response from unstable emotions instead of sound research based on scholarship. Unfortunately there are many seminaries that have been assimilated into the Marxist dogma and are devoid of healthy/orthodox theology and spirituality. Union is one of them as they have traded the Gospel of Mark for the antigospel of Marx.

    • I’ve better things to do with my tjme than “study” a twit such as she. Her “theology” is NOT the study of the God who made the universe and everything in it, from NOTHING,. it s more the study of perverted and twisted minds intent on promoting an anti-God agenda.

      The oldest lie in the universe is this:
      I will ascend, I will be loke God”.
      And this “doctor” does NOT know THAT God.

      • “I will ascend, I will be loke God“

        Wow, just like George Washington in the United States Capitol!

        “The Apotheosis of Washington depicts George Washington sitting among the heavens in an exalted manner, or in literary terms, ascending and becoming a god (apotheosis).“

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Apotheosis_of_Washington

        “the God who made the universe and everything in it, from NOTHING“

        Now that’s a definitive assertion!

        I’d certainly like to see some evidence for your claim of something created from nothing, thanks!

        • Another MARXIST pretending to be a “KNOW IT ALL”!!!

          I believe MINER is another “PERSONALITY” inside of DACIAN’s brain!!!

          Or DACIAN is a “PERSONALITY” inside of Miner’s brain..

          So in effect “THE SAME PERSON”!!!

          They seem to have created other “PERSONALITY” in the last few weeks!!!

        • JBM,

          Nah. MinorLiar is a stupid, uneducated, indoctrinated Leftist/fascist, but he can spell, and he can construct something approaching a coherent English sentence (although the “thoughts” conveyed are never coherent). dacian is wholly incapable of any of those things. Probably that great government “education” he is always blathering about.

        • I’d certainly like to see some evidence for your claim of something created from nothing, thanks!

          That is the WHOLE BASIS for anti Christian’s from evolutionists, atheists, etc…..

          First there was Nothing, it turned into something, then became something else. Nothing existed then a big bang, then here we are. Libs are nothing if not one big circle argument.

          First the chicken or the egg, well some dino egg did not suddenly pop open and out came a chicken. Evolution fits with the idea that you can gender change, become something else. A dog will always be a dog no matter how many times they say it is a cow. You may agree it is now called a cow simply because the left is pointing an evil gun at your head, it is not. They argue in circles change the rules, change the language and declare they are god.

        • “Nothing existed then a big bang, then here we are“

          Nope, no physicist has ever asserted that view.

          You really might want to study the details of what you’re calling the big bang, before making claims regarding the theory.

  4. He said to them, ‘But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.’ -Luke 22:36

    They aren’t running amok, but they are armed.

      • The tale of Sodom and Gomorrah proves exactly what a piece of shit Lot was, sacrificing his own daughters to the mob is the most reprehensible behavior a father could perform.

        And then to get drunk and screw his own daughters is beyond what any upstanding father would do, nothing but incest and pedophilia from this ‘righteous man’.

        • then to get drunk and screw his own daughters

          At least get the story right, as usual just twist shit to fit YOUR agenda… The daughters conspired to get HIM drunk and proceeded to take advantage of him, but nice try and your usual FAIL…

          Concerned for their father having descendants, one evening, Lot’s eldest daughter gets Lot drunk and has sex with him without his knowledge. The following night, the younger daughter does the same.

        • “The daughters conspired to get HIM drunk and proceeded to take advantage of him“

          Right, says every incestuous abusing father.

          So who is the parent in this situation?

          This is more toxic masculinity, blaming the victim of sexual assault for the crime.

          “has sex with him without his knowledge“

          After reading that bullshit, you people still believe the holy Bible, this is just fascinating.

        • Concerned for their father having descendants, one evening, Lot’s eldest daughter gets Lot drunk and has sex with him without his knowledge. The following night, the younger daughter does the same.

          TRY reading the entire EXCERPT before you start running your ignorant dick holster, SORRY if it does not fit YOUR agenda but it is the WAY the story is related in the REAL Bible, might be different in your atheists version but that would be incorrect… Unlike you I didn’t make this make this up…

        • “Unlike you I didn’t make this make this up… “

          No, every ‘jot and tittle’ of the religious dogma and sacred texts are ‘made-up’ by multiple human authors, translators and interpreters over hundreds of years.

        • made-up’ by multiple human authors…

          Not my problem, or yours for that matter… The point is that if you can’t relate something as it is written then you should keep it out of your mouth… EVERYONE here knows exactly who you are and what you believe so give it a rest because folks here give zero fuks about your distorted views on anything…

        • “Not my problem, or yours for that matter… “

          Sadly, it is my problem when the religion delusionists attempt to use their ancient taboos and fables as a guide for laws governing my words and actions.

        • “Lot’s eldest daughter gets Lot drunk and has sex with him without his knowledge. The following night, the younger daughter does the same.“

          Yeah, that’s believable…

          They got Dad drunk two nights in a row and he didn’t notice he had been fucking both nights?

          “Wow, that’s weird, my dick smells like pussy again this morning, I don’t get it… “

          Maxi pad, I thought I’d seen gullible people but this takes the cake.

          So let’s talk about context, these are the same two daughters Lot was going to throw to the rabid mob so they could be gang raped?

          The more you read, the worse this gets.

          I can’t speak for other fathers, but I can tell you I would defend to the death my daughter before I would allow any violent man to lay a finger on her.

        • MADDMAXX April 6, 2023 At 13:11
          Your comment is awaiting moderation
          a guide for laws governing my words and actions.

          What RELIGION laws GOVERN your words and actions, the only LAW that governs your WORDS is the 1st amendment that says you can pretty much say whatever you want, what do you want to say that stifled by “religious delusionists”… What actions do you feel have been denied you because of religion? You want to commit murder? Much of todays “laws” are based on concepts from the bible, not because “GOD” said so but because they make good “common” sense… So, do tell, what is it you FEEL you have been deprived of saying or doing because of those dreaded “religious delusionists”… OBTW: the “MAXI PAD” thing? Doesn’t bother me, I’ve been called much worse, it just shows your lack of ability to restrain from name calling, which is to be expected from a far-left individual such as you…

          If you wake up in the morning and you can SMELL a woman on you, you’ve probably not heard of soap and water… Maybe the “daughters” were more diligent in their covert activities than YOU give them credit for…

          Damn, MODERATED for P—SY? How did YOU get it through? Anyway that’s two in a row for me today, wonder if I can get three…

    • “God gave his archangels weapons because even the Almighty knows you don’t fight Evil with tolerance and understanding.” Warrior12.com tee.

  5. Way back in the days of my mis-spent youth we kids were taught the 10 Commandments in Sunday School. A couple stick out.
    Thou Shalt not commit murder.
    Thou shalt not steal.
    Thou shalt not bear false witness.
    Might be time to go back to such teachings. The biggest issue in the country is a lack of basic morals and basic common sense.
    Gun Control has never been about public safety. Nor about preventing criminals from finding ways to arm themselves. As with any government restrictions or controls, it is about giving government authority over the lives of the populace. Making citizens into disarmed subjects and serfs.

    • oldmaninAL,

      The biggest issue in the country is a lack of basic morals and basic common sense.

      Very true. I stated on this site in the last day or two: the root problem of crime is people acting on emotion to do whatever they want without any self-imposed behavioral constraints. Of course that begs the question, “And how does someone grow up with self-imposed behavioral constraints?”

      Pro-tip: raising your family under traditional Judeo-Christian faith is the surest way to raise productive families and minimize the number of criminal monsters walking among us.

    • But no commandments against child abuse?

      No commandments against incest?

      Well, I guess since Abraham was screwing his own sister we can’t really talk much about incest…

      No commandments against beating your wife? Oh yeah, women are just property…

      • Miner49er,

        The Bible forbids incest.

        The Bible forbids child abuse and wife abuse.

        • “The Bible forbids child abuse”

          “But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.”
          Numbers 31:18

        • The implication is they would be wives. We’ve discussed this before. I agree that you just repeat the same verses from the Torah over and over without any attempt to understand it.

          Miner, you should go speak to a few rabbis about these verses that seem to be the cause of your disdain for Jews and Christians. What if you hated people based on a misunderstanding? Wouldn’t you want to know? Or do you believe you know better than they do? Or do you not want to know the truth so you have an excuse to hate people?

        • This is a serious challenge btw. What do you have to lose? I’m sure you could find some that would be happy to discuss it with you.

        • Miner,
          I was thinking about this challenge. It’s sort of unfair because I’m suggesting that you do something I wouldn’t do. So, if you decide it would be a good idea to better understand some of the things you constantly post, I’ll agree to search out a rabbi, and do the same. I live in the Bible Belt. It would be easier for both of us to find a Christian preacher. I think a rabbi would be better because they’re special_ists* when it comes to the Books you often quote from.

          I’ll go to as many as you do, up to a total of three. You’ll have to give me a list of the verses. We can compare notes. This could be an interesting adventure. Deal?

          *avoiding moderation

      • To cut a lot of this short no one with any faith in God let alone a serious interest in study of scripture would take anything you post seriously. Your interpretation is needlessly perverse and blatant in it’s intent. I would almost ask if you would also denounce the Talmud but that may actually get you in trouble let alone going after the Koran.

  6. Who is it that is running amuck, and who is it that is doing nothing to those who are running amuck?
    It is the thug class that is running amuck, and the pedophile class (Democraps) that are allowing them to run amuck, with little if any consequences.
    Does your “deep biblical expertise” tell you that non-sinners should be punished for the actions of the sinners?

  7. As a non-religious person I get pretty irritated when my perspective on things is dismissed as bible thumpery. Not all that different from people who insist religion is the only way to me ethical or moral. Treating yourself and others well has benefits other than heaven and the converse has punishments other than hell.

    Reductio ad religio is pretty fucking stupid. Simple thinking for simple people.

    • It makes it easier for them to hate you if they assume you’re a Christian. If you’re a Muslim however, they’ll defend you. It’s all about political power.

      • “If you’re a Muslim however, they’ll defend you.“

        Nope, they’ve been just as guilty of using their delusional beliefs to justify killing and enslaving other peoples.

        The Buddhist are about the only ones who may get a pass on that, I can’t find any evidence they ever enslaved anyone, unlike the Christians and the Islamists.

        • So when you standing by your “MASTERS”, Master “SATAN”, you will be begging to be released from your “SERVITUDE”!!!!

        • “Master “SATAN”

          More made-up BS, no evidence for Satan or any other supernatural entities.

          And if your God is the creator of all things, then he created this “SATAN” you speak of, the most evil creature in the universe.

          Like, thanks a lot, we could’ve done without that.

          Isaiah 45:7
          “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.“

          Good job Jehovah!

        • MADDMAXX April 5, 2023 At 21:08
          Your comment is awaiting moderation
          More made-up BS, no evidence for Satan or any other supernatural entities

          You have the right to your opinion, YOU do NOT have the right to dump all over someone else’s beliefs… Must really suck to be you, to go through life not believing in anything… What a sad life you must live when the high point of your day is crapping all over another mans moral and religious beliefs… Bless your heart…

          Don’t know why THIS one got moderated, don’t really give a fukk, not that important anyway…

        • Miner, you literally said on this site you would always defend Muslims (in the context of defending them against right wingers). We all know you don’t share their beliefs.

        • “Miner, you literally said on this site you would always defend Muslims (in the context of defending them against right wingers)“

          Total bullshit.

          You continue to make this claim without providing any evidence, not really surprising given the fact that you believe in talking snakes.

          I think the Muslims are as delusional as any religious group, I’m sure there are some good religious people but the very basis of religion is delusional beliefs without evidence.

        • Miner you know I wouldn’t make that up. You were white knighting on behalf of Muslims. I called you out at the time. Now you conveniently forget. This was at least a couple of years ago on TTAG. I doubt I could find that thread if I tried.

        • I just did a quick search. Here’s what I came up with:
          Miner 49er is the main antagonist in the Scooby-Doo, Where Are You? episode, “Mine Your Own Business”.
          https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/Miner_49er

          I’ll try a deeper search on a rainy weekend or something. I miss the google site search function.

        • FUN FACT: Miner49er is an old ATARI game from the early 80s…

          Plot of the game: Bounty Bob is a member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police on a mission to search through all of Nuclear Ned’s abandoned uranium mines for the treacherous Yukon Yohan. Bob must claim each section of each mine by running over it. There are a wide variety of futuristic obstacles that he must deal with such as matter transporters, hydraulic scaffolds, and jet-speed floaters; plus, he must also avoid radioactive creatures that have been left behind in the mines.

          Is THAT your fantasy miner? Or was that a game you lusted after and mommy wouldn’t spring the fifty bucks for it? I probably have a copy among my gaming archives in a box somewhere in the attic, Atari, Nintendo, PlayStation, Xbox even have an old Commodore 64 floating around up there… somewhere… Hundreds, maybe thousands of games for various platforms and many old game consoles…

        • I would guess that Miner has a genuine interest in mining. He probably grew up around it. Maybe he even works in, or adjacent to, the industry.

        • MADDMAXX,
          I’ve encountered this one before. For future reference, you can say ‘someone’

          and you can say ‘else’

          Putting the two together is just asking for trouble man! It must be moderated!

    • There are no atheists in foxholes.
      Your day will come, whether you believe it or not.

      • “There are no atheists in foxholes“

        And there were no atheists in the cockpit of the Boeing airliners that hit the Pentagon and the twin towers.

        The Nazi death camps weren’t run by atheists, but rather good Christians following the direction of their religious leaders.

        “In a new report after decades of ambivalence, Germany’s council of Catholic bishops has finally admitted to the church’s complicity in the actions of the Nazi regime during World War II, The Times reported Friday.

        The 23-page document by the council reportedly states, “Inasmuch as the bishops did not oppose the war with a clear ‘no,’ and most of them bolstered the [German nation’s] will to endure, they made themselves complicit in the war.”

        https://www.timesofisrael.com/german-bishops-said-to-admit-complicity-in-nazi-actions-in-new-report/amp/

        Yes, religion has been so helpful to the progress of mankind…

        • So, now you are trying to place HITLERS hatred for the Jewish people at the feet “RELIGIOUS BELIEFS”?

          Anti-Semitism was rampant across Europe after WWI, even in the Catholic Church, in fact there has been animosity (leading to many armed conflicts) among the various religious sects since the beginning of religion… The Catholic Churchs failure to condemn Germanys actions does NOT make them complicit it merely makes them ambivalent..
          In REALITY Hitler and many Nazis believed in the superiority of the Aryan (German) race and that Jews were inferior (because of biological differences) to such an extent that they were almost non-human in his eyes, combined with the fact that Jews pretty much controlled most of the banks and financial institutions in Germany, he felt that he would be doing the world a favor by wiping out the Jewish race.
          When pressed about HIS religious views at a “PARTY” meeting by his mostly “anti-Christian staff Hitler stated: “The Christian-Jewish pestilence is surely approaching its end now. It is simply dreadful, that a religion has even been possible, that literally eats its God in Holy Communion.” Hitler clearly thought that anyone should be able to figure out that he was not a Christian.

        • MINER Miner49er, I beg to differ. Christians did not man the death houses of Nazi Germany. They were your fellow Nazis who are your kin folk . Remember, Giovanni Gentile?

    • Shire, there is some thinking among people who study such things that the whole origin of most religions are attempts to codify and instill behavior that is generally more successful for individuals and societies and which avoids the most easily avoidable problems.

    • “As a non-religious person I get pretty irritated when my perspective on things is dismissed as bible thumpery”

      Get a thicker skin. It’s known as the First Amendment to the Bill of Rights. Non-religious people have been telling religious people, they have to put up with N a z i s marching in their neighborhoods.

  8. Some of our Leftist “compadres” need to read the Bible. There was a heck of a lot of smiting, killing etc. Even Jesus chased the money changers out of the Temple. But then they only have a common core education.

  9. “far-right Christian leaders”
    “More thoughts and prayers.”
    “so-called Christians”

    Here we’ve established that this theologian (President of Union Theological Seminary
    and Johnston Family Professor for Religion & Democracy) is okay with mocking Christians, like a typical (loving, accepting, and inclusive) Democrat.

    For some added context, note that she’s a prominent left wing political activist.

    Her argument is that a Biblical view isn’t pro-gun:

    Generally, conservative politicians justify this vague connection by claiming the Bible gives people the right to self-defense.

    It doesn’t matter. This argument is pointless. Here’s why: we don’t live under a theocracy. We have a Constitution. You can argue the philosophy behind the passage of the Constitution all you want. It doesn’t change the Constitution. If you want to change it, then we have a well-defined process to go through. Good luck with that.

    She’s preaching to a mostly (entirely?) non-Christian audience in Salon. Then what’s the point? It’s nothing more than anti-Christian propaganda being preached to the choir.

    Here’s an interesting nugget from the article:

    On virtually every page, the Bible tells us to value and protect human life. Life is sacred.

    Cool. Where can I read your article about abortion in Salon?

    • “Here’s an interesting nugget from the article:

      On virtually every page, the Bible tells us to value and protect human life. Life is sacred.

      Cool. Where can I read your article about abortion in Salon?”

      Nah, you see abortion doesn’t kill, it just removes some cells. Scientifically we know those cells are developing humans, but that is not really a bad thing. After all they will likely grow up to be criminals anyway. At least that what I have heard.

      She would have a fit if she was told the vast majority of us who keep arms do so to protect the human lives we value. My life and the lives of those who I love and care for are sacred to me, ending a threat to them is my duty morally and is expected by my creator. It is a sin to allow the innocent to be harmed when you can prevent it. Let her think on that awhile.

      • On virtually every page, the Bible tells us to value and protect human life”

        Well, that’s total bullshit.

        The Bible gives specific instructions on how to kill children, both born and unborn.

        I found the instructions for performing abortions on women who have conceived babies through adultery especially interesting. Perhaps some Christians should read their Bible, and investigate the term ‘bitter waters’.

        • Man, you get really triggered whenever someone mentions religion. Have you considered seeking professional counselling about your clearly unhealthy obsession?

  10. Luke 22:36 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you out without purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. “Now, however,” He told them, “the one with a purse should take it, and likewise a bag; and the one without a sword should sell his cloak and buy one.

  11. Do NOT search for the MSNBC interview with her where she says that “in order for women to raise healthy families we have to preserve their right to an easy and safe abortion…cause G_d says so…”

    Yup, Serene, that makes sense…let’s selectively kill “inconvenient” children and then using her definition of “faith” to justify those killings.

    Left-wing dingleberry twatwaffle.

    • Old Guy in Montana,

      From what little I saw from her, I assumed that was her position without even looking it up. She’s a left wing attack dog, not unlike Liz Cheney. “Here’s a reasonable Republican, Christian, etc.”

      • @Dude

        If Dante’s vision of Hell is correct. Then she should be down in the Fourth Round of the Ninth Level. A spot, especially reserved, for people who claim to represent G_d, using His name in their blasphemy whilst committing heinous atrocities.

    • so in HER economy killing with a gun is evil mean and nasty and we won’t STAND for it no we won’t. BUT killing with the surgeon’s knife is fine and dandy particularly when the victim of said knife has not yet taken her first breath.
      If she did not have a double standard she’d have no standard at all.

      I wonder what she “feelz” about the execution of convicted murderers? Or perhaps the killing of those nasty Russkis over in the Ukraine, with guns and bombs and US made missiles and such.

  12. “If someone comes to kill you, rise up and kill him first.”

    —God, from the Torah

  13. “He said to them, ‘But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.’”

    Doesn’t that verse specifically tell his followers to arm themselves so that they can defend themselves in a hostile world? A gun is the modern sword, why would Jesus tell his followers to buy swords if not to defend themselves, but not want people today to buy guns for the same reason? If you are in a dangerous world where you may get attacked simply for thinking differently, wouldn’t Jesus tell you the same sort of thing that he told his followers? Sell your Nikes and buy a Glock. Don’t buy it so you can go to war, but to use it if someone tries to harm you.

  14. She has God and Jesus confused… God was all about smiting, vengeance, an eye for an eye and massive acts of violence, murder (of your enemies) and mayhem… Jesus was a peace and love, turn the other cheek, soshullist…

    • God and Jesus are one and the same, one God, three persons (Father, Son, Spirit) coequal coeternal.

      • “God and Jesus are one and the same”

        So God sacrificed himself to himself, to get a pass on rules he himself had created.

        Sounds rational to me…

        So if Jesus is God, being an eternal being, he risked nothing during the crucifixion, just had a rough weekend.

        So exactly what was the sacrifice?

        • MINOR Miner49er, Are you really so ignorant that you don’t know that Jesus died to atone for the original sin? If you can’t figure out what Christ’s sacrifice was, you need more help then we can give you here.

    • @Maxx, would it surprise you if she hadn’t actually read the Bible? I would not find that in the least bit surprising. You can feel what a condescending bitch she is just by this little excerpt, and I wouldn’t exactly fall down with shock if she had a degree in something she never actually critically read, because she just “innately understood the material.”

      • Her bibles are Das Kapital and Mao’s little red book. And sneaks in Mein Kampf when no one is looking.

    • Jesus was not a soshulizt. He ASKED you to give of YOUR money and belongings. He did not advocate forcing other people to give of theirs.

      • Charity is virtuous. We’re supposed to help the poor, fatherless, etc. So-shall-ism is theft.

  15. “The Bible says absolutely nothing about allowing people to run amuck with guns.” [sic]

    People are not allowed to “run amok” with guns – people who do tend to get arrested. This is another lame attempt to paint gun owners and the current state of gun-ownership as some sort of insanity when, in fact, guns and gun owners in this country are involved in very little crime and mayhem. The antis are constantly using hyperbolic language like “run amok” or “blood in the streets” or “giving people guns” when, given that there are already 400 million guns (or more) in private hands, if we were going to have those kinds of problems you’d think they would have started by now.

  16. “But as a theologian with deep biblical expertise…”

    Careful. The Bible reserves its highest level of scorn for false prophets and teachers who lead the flock astray.

  17. The right to keep and bear arms only applies to the law-abiding citizens and is not a license to run amok. It is a license to commit murder, or any other crime. It amazes me that these folks automatically assume that just one more gun control law will stop mass killers. In other countries, they have mass killers where some use bombs, vehicles, and swords to kill others.

    Jesus said to sell your cloak and buy a sword. When Peter cut off the ear of the Roman soldier, it was not self defense. Live by the sword, die by the sword means murder and attempted murder will lead to capital punishment or possible self defense. We will all die some day, we will just die sooner if we use weapons to do harm.

    • Any of us could die sooner if we do not have a gun for self defense. That does not necessarily mean that you have to fire it, just the fact you have it ready can be enough that hte thugs will leave you alone.

  18. So did she mention a potential fix for the “gunm problem”, or just yammer on about people on the right?

    Because Im all for a fix that would keep guns out of the hands of criminals…just haven’t heard one yet

    • lock up or execute serious criminas. Then they’d only be able to have their guns fr a short while. Sooner or later most who should not have guns won’t.. because they will either have met Justice and died (or be locked upm keeping US safe from THEM) or will have “seen the light” and left off their criminal ways.

      There IS a fix for criminals having guns. The bible COMMANDS the execution of murderers. That’s one way of preventing more crime. Those consudering criminal actions might witness th execution and realise that will be their own fate if they take up those ways.

  19. It wasn’t a gunman…it was a “gunwoman”. The bible does say something about selling your plow and buying a sword…if I remenber correctly.

  20. “Sell your cloak & buy a sword”. “GOD prepares my hands for war”. “He that doesn’t provide for his own is worse than an infidel”. That includes defending my family to the death. JESUS was not a peacenik sissy. In the near future he will destroy evildoers. “In righteousness HE doth judge & make WAR”. ALL these are off the top of my head evil “doctor”🙄

  21. Thus spake an utterly worthless sack of flesh that contributes absolutely zero to our civilization and merely grifts and trains other grifters how to more effectively grift themselves.

    If there is a hell she has a first-class ticket reserved in her name waiting for her. She can pick it up in will call behind the front gate

    • Nikita Tesla,

      If there is a hell she has a first-class ticket reserved in her name waiting for her.

      As the Bible says in Matthew 18:6, “… whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.”

      Ms. Serene is directing people to be intentionally defenseless and therefore intentionally enabling evildoers to harm them and their families. That is sinful and abhorrent.

  22. For conservative Christian politicians like these, God is a zealous gun advocate.” — Serene Jones

    Wrong. Rather, God is a zealous INNOCENT LIFE advocate and graciously allows us to vigorously defend innocent life when violent criminals attack.

    Furthermore, God is a zealous WISDOM advocate and tells us that wisdom rather than emotion should underpin our worldview.

    When you combine the above two exceedingly simple aspects of God Almighty, it is glaringly obvious that we should use effective means to vigorously defend innocent life: and since firearms are the most effective means of defending innocent life, we should keep and bear firearms to defend innocent life when violent criminals attack.

    • Yes. According to the Bible, there may be nothing that God is *more* zealous for than the sanctity of life and the protection of innocent life.

      • “the protection of innocent life“

        So that’s why Jehovah told the Hebrews to attack their neighboring nations, kill everyone including the male babies and pregnant women?

  23. “People to Run Amuck With Guns”

    There’s over 420 million guns (and approx 6 trillion rounds) in the US Jones.
    If the law abiding citizens (those whom restrictive 2nd A laws would effect) were to “Run Amuck” you would notice it.

    Why you Can’t Understand Normal Thinking. 🤔

  24. It would be a pretty fair assumption to say that street gangs and drug thugs, the overwhelming source of crime, murder and mayhem, are NOT bible thumping Christians nor law abiding gun owners.
    …and that’s all I got to say about that.

  25. “The Bible says absolutely nothing about allowing people to [locomote at a speed exceeding the gallop of a horse]. It’s a completely ludicrous reading of the text.”

    Thousands of people die in automobile accidents each year. Still more in train wrecks and airplane crashes. All clearly attributable to “allowing people to run amuck with” high-speed locomotion. Henry Ford has more blood on his hands than Samual Colt.

    I blame the Chinese for inventing gunpowder. The patriarchy for inventing war. The military-industrial complex for raising global violence to a scale never contemplated by Cain on the outskirts of the Garden of Edon.

    Now that we have Utopion theology agreed upon by all (wo)men of goodwill and common sense. What shall we do about it?

    Until women – for the next several thousand years – stop procreating with males evidencing the slightest propensity toward violence, we will have to live within the constraints of reality as it exists today. Violence has been a part of human history for as long as archaeologists can trace the evidence. The means to violence on a mass scale can’t be un-invented. It can’t be controlled. Nuclear weapons control on an international scale has failed miserably. Gun control on a national scale has failed miserably in societies that refuse to respect the rule-of-law.

    Gun control in the US has failed miserably because significant segments of our population will not comply. And it is the Democrat Party’s strategy to refuse to incarcerate violent criminals.

    The problem of gun violence, and of violence in general, does not admit of a theological solution. Even the Dali Lamma – the living prince of peace – supports the natural right of self-defense.

  26. How did the Roman guard get his ear cut off by Peter if they weren’t strapt with swords. Explain that to me…

  27. The bible also doesn’t say people should be allowed to run Amuck with their mouths and stupidity…yet here you are…and that right is protected by, ultimately…Guns.

  28. One, guns weren’t in the biblical times. So this comment is just trash.
    There were swords and it is mentioned that at times a sword is needed.

    It also doesn’t say anything about gays, or trans running amuck but we have preachers twisting the Bible to fit those narratives too. It does say it’s a sin though.

    More poor journalism.

  29. But as a theologian with deep biblical expertise, I must say, I’m struggling to find the part in the Bible about unlimited access to guns. I hate to break it to these “devoted” religious followers: The Bible says absolutely nothing about allowing people to run amuck with guns. It’s a completely ludicrous reading of the text.

    How do you feel about 1 Timothy 2:12?

  30. Serena Jones said, “pistol braces – which can make guns easier to conceal.”
    Um, what? WTF?
    Tell me, Serena Jones, how adding a brace to a pistol makes it “easier to conceal.”
    I’ll wait (but somehow I doubt Serena Jones is reading TTAG).
    FYI, pistol braces make pistols harder to conceal, not easier!
    It just shows, once again, that anti-gun hoplophobes have zero knowledge of the things they want to ban.

    “The Bible says absolutely nothing about allowing people to run amuck with guns.”
    Dictionary.com defines “amuck” as meaning “mad with murderous frenzy.”
    FYI, Serena Jones, murder is illegal, and nobody is claiming it’s legal.
    Also, it’s mostly Democrats who are “running amuck with guns” and murdering people, and it’s good guys with guns (mostly Republicans) who are stopping these murderers.

  31. some theologian. must have been taught at leftist seminaries. if so, you are not a person of God but of satan. the Bible does not mention nuclear arms or battle tanks. should we give those up as well? oh, and if you cannot spell AMOK (or your spell check is defective) you do not need to lead others. you should be in a Christian school where you might learn many things you did not learn through your government-school education.

  32. “The Bible says absolutely nothing about allowing people to run amuck with guns.”

    So she knows nothing about the Bible, and nothing about guns. Quelle surprise.

    The Bible absolutely says something about “running amuck” – with ANYTHING.

    “You must not murder.” “You must not steal.” Exodus 20: 13, 15 (NLT)

  33. Firearms are only close to 600 years old. Parts of the Bible date to approximately 5800 years ago. To be a natural right or god-given right something does not have to be mentioned in the Bible. Printing presses are not mentioned in the Bible and no one disputes the absolute right people have to make copies of the Bible.

  34. It’s pretty clear on the difference between killing and murder, and speaks of following the rules established by a government as well, but you’re the “expert.”

  35. In 2019 Robert Gagnon wrote a piece in the federalist about Jones taking her to task for her heresy. It’s an epic take down and worth the read. Google her name and scroll down to find it.

    • Found it.

      In the course of the interview Kristoff asks Jones, “Am I a Christian?” Jones’s response is ironic: “Well, you sound an awful lot like me, and I’m a Christian minister.”

      Notice she doesn’t say, “I’m a Christian.” She says she’s a “Christian minister.”

      In the article above, she says she’s a “theologian with deep biblical expertise.” (She didn’t say she was a Christian.)

    • Imaho,

      Regarding that Federalist article, she lays out her belief system which is in direct conflict with the Bible. Yet her Salon article tries to use the Bible to prove some point about guns. It’s obvious what’s going on here.

  36. A guy just ran amok in Brazil with an axe and killed 4 kids and wounded 3.

    I’m pretty sure murder is banned in most countries and the bible.

  37. Even Jesus told his followers to sell their cloak to buy a sword. You can cherry pick both the Old and New Testaments to justify your own personal morality.

    I don’t give a warm bucket of spit about what this heretical leftist pig has to say.

  38. hes a “theologian”
    with “deep biblical expertise…”

    but somehow

    he never ever ever

    read Nehemiah Chapter 4:

    16 From that day on, half of my men did the work, while the other half were equipped with spears, shields, bows and armor. The officers posted themselves behind all the people of Judah 17 who were building the wall. Those who carried materials did their work with one hand and held a weapon in the other, 18 and each of the builders wore his sword at his side as he worked. But the man who sounded the trumpet stayed with me.

    19 Then I said to the nobles, the officials and the rest of the people, “The work is extensive and spread out, and we are widely separated from each other along the wall. 20 Wherever you hear the sound of the trumpet, join us there. Our God will fight for us!”

    21 So we continued the work with half the men holding spears, from the first light of dawn till the stars came out. 22 At that time I also said to the people, “Have every man and his helper stay inside Jerusalem at night, so they can serve us as guards by night and as workers by day.” 23 Neither I nor my brothers nor my men nor the guards with me took off our clothes; each had his weapon, even when he went for water.c]”

  39. However I’m sure that this “Biblical scholar” would find a justification for bodily mutilation and “transgenderism” in The Bible. Moron also spelled AMOK wrong.

    • “find a justification for bodily mutilation“

      Sure, ritual genital mutilation is demanded by Jehovah in the Bible, you may know it as ‘circumcision’.

      • That is “slightly” different than chopping of the whole penis, forming some kind a opening calling it a vag-ina and calling a dude a “woman” or taking a young girls healthy breasts so she can pretend to be a man…

  40. When GOD comes, one of the first things HE will do is “VOMIT ALL LUKEWARM CHURCHES OUT OF HIS MOUTH”…It shall included the people that partake in them…..

  41. Pretty sure, had firearms been a thing in the BCE they would have been Gods weapon of choice when it came time to “smite down thine enemies” and David would have been given a 10mm Glock to take down the big fella, instead of a sling and a stone…

    • I agree, but let’s leave in the part about David using Goliath’s sword after he flattened him. The word “panache” also isn’t found in the text, but I would argue that the concept is…

  42. Even if any part of her argument was sound, we are not supposed create laws that favor one religion over another. It doesn’t matter if her flavor of Christianity declares guns to be evil totems that the government should ban.

    It’s like she doesn’t want a liberal secular government or something. Or she’s just entirely disingenuous and a hypocrite. “Don’t make laws based on their interpretation of religion, make them based on mine.”

    But then again, exceedingly few people in government seem to actually honor the constitution. Everyone else just uses pieces of it to try to dismantle the bill of rights.

  43. She showed her stripes when she balked at the “audacity” of the dude that said some of it can be blamed on the general falling away from God and morals.

  44. Interesting yet again that the original article in Salon does not have a comment section.

    As many of you have already noted, Jones is a leftist flake.

    https://thefederalist.com/2019/04/30/5-major-heresies-supposedly-christian-minister-preached-gullible-new-york-times-columnist/

    She has spent all her time studying religion instead of studying God, and see where it got her? Another example of a person “looking at” instead of “looking along.”

    http://kevincrawfordonline.com/resources/meditation+in+a+tool+shed+-+C+S+Lewis.pdf

  45. “… introduce legislation that would reduce penalties for pistol braces – which make guns easier to conceal”

    Is there an editor that reads this crap? Adding a pistol brace to a firearm makes it easier to conceal… how? Does it open a pocket universe that the middle portion of firearm can reside in?

    • I was wondering that as well. Shows the typical absolute lack of knowledge of all of these anti-gun pundits of any and all things gun related.