Is 38 Special a Good Self-Defense Round?

1. Chat GPT. At least I hope so.

   • You are 100% correct. Nothing against Scott Witner (the listed author) but when phrases like ‘stopping power’ are used and sentences like “This commitment to performance ensures that every shot hits the target with precision and effectiveness…” are used, the ‘author’ works in the Marketing Department & this is an ad or the article was written 100% using AI.

     Nothing against AI either but at least own up and state that some/part/all of the article was generated using AI.

2. It’s come around that to effectively improve the snub nose, using 9mm is the better choice. It’s inexpensive, has performance another step closer to the .357 Mag, yet still handles well and also has a 40 year development curve from it’s lesser loadings of the 1980s. Adoption by the US military has greatly improved it’s performance.

   If Taurus would only offer conversion cylinders for their 856 Ultra Lites . . .

   • Get a 3″ 605. That would solve your “problem”. 38 is better than nothing but 357 is a whole lot better.🙄

     • Ill take my Model 60 Chiefs Special stainless J frame. These aluminum boot grip 5 shots carry well but are miserable to shoot. if its painful, you won’t practice.

   • Uh, most 9mm ammo isn’t crimped properly for a lightweight revolver. Which is why there are so few of them. Inertia pulls the bullets out, which jams the cylinder rotation, and if you aren’t a handloader, there is no simple solution to this.

     Other than that though– you are right. 9mm is one of the best, if not _the_ best performing round from a short barrel (relative to longer barrels).

     • Bullet creep is a thing. Even with proper factory loadings in .38. Had a plus p load shed it’s bullet in my light weight j frame. Jammed it up good and proper.

     • Harrell put out a good video on the Ruger LCR 9mm, and discusses crimp jump along with his usual testing and comparisons. Very interesting. I actually stumbled across a used one at Vance’s a few weeks after watching his video, and snapped it up.

       I run Sig 124 gr V-crowns in mine (same in the Walther), and I haven’t had a problem. There are exceptions of course, but you can test for crimp jump while testing gun/ammo compatibility. Just mark one round with a sharpie and run it around the cylinder a few times while firing the others, and check it. I actually do this with autoloaders too, because those same forces act on rounds in a magazine or chamber. If you are in the habit of keeping one in the pipe of your EDC, and you likely check it regularly for function (you do, right?), be mindful of this. Drop the mag, clear the chamber, inspect and check for function, then reload, is the usual process. If you keep putting the same round back in the chamber repeatedly, you almost are running it through a bullet puller. As the bolt slams home while pushing that cartridge into the chamber, it imparts some inertia into the bullet. “…tends to stay in motion.”

3. 38 39 whatever it takes.

   • Yep. Better than all calibers less than 38 and definitely better than no caliber at all.

   • Nice reference to Mr. Mom.

4. Yes. As long as the boolitz are placed into the pump or the CPU it doesn’t matter what size hole they make as long as they achieve sufficient penetration. If the shots miss then it really doesn’t matter if they were .50BMG or .22LR.

5. After reading this article, I rushed out and purchased several boxes of the above ammo. But when I returned home, I remembered I do not own a revolver. So, I will give them to my brother for Christmas. He does not own a revolver, either.

   • I was in a shop in Utah. Stocking up on ammo. They only had three boxes of .357 so I scooped them up.

     Got home in CA before I realized one box was for .357 sig. Never owned such a gun. Send me your brothers address and I’ll send them to him for Christmas.

     • Right kind of you, JWM!!

     • While I load both would be happy to give the Sig a new home just have to do it outside of NY. Would you take 45gap in trade?

       • .45 What?

         • Glock Automatic Pistol, basically 45acp that fits into a 9mm footprint so that Glock caliber series was more g17/g19 sized instead of 20/40/26 or whatever the subcompact was.

       • SAFE,
         This is more .357SIG fan service than a relevant contribution to this discussion, but I finally received my 9mm barrel from Italy, rechambered it, and converted my Witness Hunter. 2548fps for Civil Defense!

         • Even at 50 gr that still has a relatively solid base and may not disintegrate at that speed……out of curiosity what barrel length?

           • 6″. 65gr Underwood was 2208, and 90gr Grizzly was most impressive at 2123.

   • No time like the present to alter that life choice.

6. Of course the.38 Spl is a viable defensive round. It wouldn’t have been around as long as it has if it wasn’t. I believe that the 38 and 9mm are contemporaries ballistically. They are certainly contemporaries when it comes to birthdays. They are both over 100 years old and only 10 years apart. I have owned.38 SPL revolvers all of my adult life. My every day pocket gun is a S&W 442 w/Spiegal Boot Grips in a Mitch Rosen holster. It is loaded with the Speer 125 gr GDHP +P. I have owned this little revolver since 91 and no it’s not rated for +P. I only shot the hot stuff when I was qualifying. That was the ammo I had been carrying. Then I would finish the course of fire with standard loads. That little revolver rode in a Galco Ankle Glove for 25 years as my backup. Uniform and plain clothes both. I still have that holster and it is still serviceable. Anyway, the only other .38 I have is a mint Colt Detective Special that I tripped over in a LGS in Crystal River. When carried (not often) it’s fed the same ammo as the Smith. My S&W mod 65 3″ HB round butt is kept loaded with the 158 gr LSWHP +P FBI load. I put a pair of Pachmayer Professionals on it and never looked back. If don’t own a good .38 Spl revolver you have a serious hole in your firearms battery.

   • Walking through a crowded bus stop, I passed two guys squabbling about something. Given that one was an obvious Marielito, and the other an obvious California-atyle hippie, my first thought was “uh-oh!”

     About 10 steps later, I heard 5 shots. I turned to look, and here comes El Marielito at a fast trot, cradling a SW snubbie. I was trying to remember if it was the Smith that had 5, and the Colt that had 6, or the reverse, when he saw me giving him the eye and crossed the street.

     I really like that old Detective Special, glad he didn’t have one…

     This was many years ago, and I would be little surprised to find out the shooter has done his time, scored a submissive wife and a house in the ‘burbs.

     This illegal immigrant crap has been going on for a long time.

7. This article provided accurate information about full wadcutter ammunition, although the commentary seemed to somewhat downplay the effectiveness of full wadcutter ammunition. My informed opinion (after several dozen hours of research) is that full wadcutter bullets on top of full-power (not watered down) loads are unquestionably the best self-defense ammunition to use in a revolver chambered in .38 Special.

   While hollowpoint bullets are certainly good choices, there are various reasons why hollowpoint ammunition can fail to expand and therefore fail to incapacitate an attacker as fast as possible. The beauty of full wadcutter bullets is that they are explicitly designed NOT to expand and yet still create large wound channels–typically at least as large (if not larger) than hollowpoint bullets at the same velocities. In other words, full wadcutter bullets give you the highest probability of creating the largest possible wound channels in an attacker and therefore the highest probability of incapacitating an attacker as fast as possible.

   I am not aware of any “downside” to full wadcutter bullets in .38 Special for close self-defense engagements. The only “hurdle” is finding factory ammunition with full power loads for self-defense rather than watered-down loads for target practice. I think I only managed to find two manufacturers who produce full-power .38 Special ammunition with full wadcutter bullets. And only one of them had a reasonable price: Underwood Ammunition.

   I keep a .38 Special +P revolver with a 3-inch barrel readily available for a specific type of situation that is very common. And I loaded it with Underwood full wadcutter ammunition. I am confident that platform will be very effective at stopping the overwhelming majority of attacks.

   • I’ve found one very serious drawback to using wad cutters for self defense. Due to the flat bullet profile they are VERY hard to align all 5 or six at the same time for a speedy reload using speed loaders. The pointed profile of the Hornady FXT is by far the best for aligning speed loaders or speed strips. A few seconds fumbling your reload could prove fatal. I have some now discontinued .38 Federal JHP self defense ammo that is basically a jacketed hollow base wad cutter loaded backwards. Had the same problem with quick reloads. Also, most factory wad cutters are down loaded for accurate target work at lower velocities than typical self defense loads.

     • That’s why you (I) keep the cylinder loaded with wadcutters and your (my) speedloaders filled with semi-wadcutters or hollowpoints.

     • Slapshot,

       Your comment is very accurate that aligning speed loaders is very difficult if you have full wadcutter cartridges in your speed loader.

       Teddy Kennedy’s comment about keeping cartridges with tapered bullets in a speed loader is an excellent solution.

       I will also add: perhaps one in 1,000 people are able to reload a revolver quickly enough (in an actual self-defense situation) to continue effective self-defense with their reloaded revolver. (And that includes cartridges with optimum bullet shapes to facilitate reloading as fast and easy as possible.) That being the case, the relative ease or difficulty of reloading full wadcutters is not a relevant consideration for 99.9% of the population.

       Let’s remember the dominant use case for revolvers: they are simple to operate/maintain and are thus a great choice for people who want a simple and reliable firearm for effective self-defense against one or two attackers. If someone wants a handgun for effective self-defense against a gang of attackers, then he/she needs a semi-auto pistol with 12+ cartridge capacity, multiple loaded magazines, and LOTS of practice ejecting empty magazines and inserting loaded magazines.

   • You do need to set up your dies a bit differently for loading 38 wadcutters but isn’t too difficult. Haven’t messed with loading up full power loads as I more use the 357 magnum options but I am sure there is a good bit of room for improvement from what is typically available for wadcutters (cowboy action is about all I have ever found).

   • Yup. There’s not really much to discuss, at least at the 2″ barrel length. WC is the way to go, and loaded “hot” as you say. Still will be very controllable, compared to some non-expanding hollowpoint.

     And .44 Special is even better yet, with a wadcutter, for the same reason. Just a 50% larger hole, though about 50% more recoil to go along with it.

     More content of value in the comments than in the ChatGPT press release “article”.

8. It’s all depends on the recoil control for accurate follow up shots, when so many want +p or 357. But just how accurate are you on the second, or third pull of the trigger???

   Paul harrell RIP, has an excellent video where he compares the trigger pull speed of a 22lr versus I think a 357 vs a 44 mag.

   I’ve shot 357 4 inch and 6 in barrel guns. And I don’t like them.

   I own a 38 snubby and a 32HR magnum in a snubby. The 32 is so much better to shoot. I have more ammo options with that gun.

   With the 38 the best ammo is wadcutter.
   Or if you can find them, 38 colt short, $$$. They are soooo much fun to shoot. And very accurate.

   btw
   Revolver grips suck most of the time. You’ll need to shop around to find the best grips for a revolver. Especially if you’re using +p or magnum ammo.

   As far as the cost of ammunition goes , 9mm has always been vastly cheaper, than 38 special.

9. A few things,

   First, .38s are easily twice the price here than comparable use 9mms. ( a consideration for those that practice time is effected by cost)

   Second, the focus of bullet developers has been the 9mm for quite a while now. The improvements are massive from where it came from. Are they even improving the .38/.357 these days, or are they sitting pat?

   And finally, it’s a heck of a lot easier to find 9mm than it is to find 38’s. In a SHTF situation, it will be easier since most every LEO and/or soldier will have a supply on them.

   .

   • Re improvements yes but no. New designs for the 9mm and 380 are adapted and scaled up or down to various calibers but the design was optimized for the two common nines. We may start seeing more 10mm development but for most of the last 30 years it was just 40sw designs for the most part and that I would be surprised if any relevant r&d have gone into it for the last decade.

   • You can find older Taurus 85-seriea .38 snubbies in pawn shops for $100 if you don’t care about cosmetics. They sold a jillion of them after all and just about every sock drawer in redneckistan has one shoved way into the back out of sight.

     • I have never seen any functional revolver for $100 anywhere. If I found a functional Taurus 85 series revolver for $100, I would buy it on the spot.

10. Revolver ammunition development has pretty much stopped. The business is mostly concerned with 9mm, 556, and some hunting calibers. The exception is 22 punch ammo. It’s great in by beretta 21a. They have really increased the reliability of rimfire ammunition.

    And different varieties of 38 special ammo are very hard to find.

11. The FBI data on homicides of police officers reveal that the only chambering to be utilized by cop killers more than the 9mm parabellum is the 38 Special.

    In contrast, the dreaded .50 BMG that causes so many cops and judges to defecate in their panties has never been utilized to kill a cop.

12. There’s that “stopping power” thing again. I am constantly assured by the ballistic gel experts that “stopping power” is a myth and I can hunt grizzlies with .32 acp as long as I hit them in the eye socket.

    I’ll stick with .357 or .44 magnum. .357 magnum out of a 3″ revolver has more “stopping power” than a 9mm. By my testing and research at least 100 foot pounds more.

    But “muh capacity!”

    Practice your marksmanship and you won’t need capacity. Performance is far more important.

    • “constantly assured by the ballistic hair gel experts that “stopping power” is a myth”

      Grim truths – A person acting in selfdefense may well not get any shot. A person acting in selfdefense, that misses with their first shot, probably won’t need “followup shots”. A person acting in selfdefense, that connects with their first shot, and needs a second or third, needs a bigger gun. Hopefully, that is doable…

      • Hence my use of a revolver. Less likely to jam than a bottom-feeder, too.

    • It is very common for a citizen to be threatened and assaulted by a group of President Obama’s bastard sons. More often than not, they are on drugs. A high capacity 9mm or maybe a lower capacity 10mm is definitely, legitimately needed for self defense in such common situations. Better yet is an AR-15, twenty-two caliber rodent rifle, often referred to as a “patrol rifle.”. Of course my own personal preference is to confront gangs of President Obama’s illegitimate progeny as well as Biden’s illegal Invaders with a scoped, .50 BMG rifle from a thousand yards away.

      • I solve that problem by not living anywhere near the usual suspects. Anyone du.m.b enough to do so gets what they deserve.

    • Johnny LeBlanc,

      All common handgun platforms are “weak sauce” in terms of their ability to physically incapacitate an attacker quickly and reliably.

      I will argue that the only handgun platform (which is somewhat common) that has decent probability of quickly and reliably incapacitating a human attacker is .44 Magnum with a minimum 4-inch barrel and loaded with hot 180 grain hollowpoints.

      The most important aspects of handguns for self-defense are shot placement (first) and then bullet choice (second).

      Of course the saying holds true, “There is no replacement for displacement.” And that brings us to the adage, “Carry the largest caliber handgun that you can shoot quickly and accurately.”

13. May be unpopular, but here goes:

    9mm (which I don’t really care for) whips .38 Special’s ass six ways from Sunday. It’s the same size bullet, but the 9mm has more power, expands more reliably, costs half as much, and (when used in a semi-auto) provides 2x to 3x as much ammunition as a .38 Special revolver.

    I love revolvers. I like .38 Special the least. .357 Magnum is a brilliant cartridge, but the worst carry gun is a .357 snubbie 2″ barrel, which barely outperforms 9mm +P from a subcompact but gives 3x the recoil and noise and muzzle flash, all while holding 1/3 the ammo.

    If you absolutely insist on using a .38 Special, either use wadcutters or the only hollowpoint that reliably works every time from .38 Special, the Barnes TAC-XP. Buffalo Bore makes two outstanding loads, the 20F or 20G.

    .38 Special from a 2″ barrel has been thoroughly surpassed. .38 Special was fine when you’d encounter a single mugger in an alley, but in today’s modern crime where you’re frequently seeing criminals in packs of 3, 4, 5 or more, a 5-shot snubby is far from the best choice. Better to have a subcompact semi-auto 9mm with 12+ rounds.

    If all you’ve got is a .38 snubby, load it with wadcutters or Buffalo Bore 20F/20G and it will serve fine. But if you’ve got other choices, you’re almost certainly better off choosing something else that offers both more capacity and more power.

    • LOL

      You read the d.um.best things on Internet fora.

      If you’re attacked by 3, 4, 5, or more criminals armed with firearms, you’re f*ing dead no matter what you’re carrying.

      “Excuse me, I’m gonna put two in this guy now, can the rest of you please refrain from pulling the trigger while I do so?”

      LOL!

      Cops use 17 round Glocks, and still assault crack-houses in packs, usually armed with AR-15s.

      The best defense against “3, 4, 5, or more” criminals is to travel in groups the same size, or avoid ‘hoods where such packs of criminals are found.

      • I guarantee you that whenever these armed criminal gangs who hold their pistols sideways because it looks cool encounter any practical pistol shooter that can perform an el presedente in less than ten seconds, any survivors will be too busy soiling themselves to return fire.

      • Johnny LeBlanc,

        It is hard to say what a gang of several armed attackers would do if their victim suddenly produced a handgun and started shooting. Some gangs would immediately disperse. Others may very well stay to finish the fight in their favor, willing to take some casualties themselves in process of course.

        I will also add that living your life well away from urban Hellscapes is no guarantee that a gang of multiple attackers will never strike. Sadly, as our nation allows more and more violent criminals to roam free (some after arrest and some illegal aliens), the odds of encountering a violent gang will continue to increase everywhere. Let’s just hope that violent criminal gangs never realize that law enforcement response in rural areas can easily be well over 30 minutes–plenty of time to brutalize an innocent victim.

14. Good article, it’s nice to see ammo reviews.

    • Too bad it is all just F-lore.

    • Its AI slop.

15. “Larger calibers like 9mm” ??

    • .355 is yuge compared to .357,,, it caught me as well.

16. It’ll do, if it’s the best you got. If you are acting in selfdefense, the metric that counts is how accurate is your FIRST shot, not your second or third. If recoil and muzzle blast are affecting the accuracy of your first shot, that is a personal problem…

17. If you shoot full house 357 loads in a snuby, you don’t need to shoot good. With one shot—-the muzzle blast will kill them!

18. Was this written by AI?

19. If you have to defend yourself in court?You might be better off with a revolver. Instead of a 15 shot 9mm “blaster.”

    Because many juries are ignorant about and unsure about most firearms. And the prosecutors take advantage of that to your disadvantage.

    • A 12 gauge shotgun loaded with “harmless buckshot” has even more judge and jury appeal. Even the TactiCoolFools on this website seem to be to ignorant to understand the lethality of a shotgun.

20. Yes. 38 special is a dandy defense load. Good penetration with almost any standard load.

    Even enter when loaded to full potential. (i.e. Buffalo Bore, Underwood, Corbon).

    I believe most 38+P is downloaded these days.

    Current Winchester 158 grain +P LSWCHP is almost 100fps slower than my stock form the 70s and 80s.

    Buffalo Bore standard pressure 158 LSWCHP is a little faster than current Winchester +P out of my 2 inch snubs.

    38 special really sings in 4 or 6 inch guns. A snub can perform well with good loads, if you can control them.

    The big advantage is there are a wide range of loads available to fit different skill levels.

    There are low recoil loads (110+P) the penetrate adequately and expand. You can even load a 90 grain +P that duplicates or exceeds a 380 for new shooters.

    If recoil is an issue, I’d rather have 5 148 Wadcutters than 7 22 magnums, but that’s just me.

    9mm looks good out a snub, but I find it hard to carry extra clips without bending them. Also the issue of bullet pull – even with defense loads.

    I certainly don’t feel unarmed with a 38. I’ll stick with high performance lead loads until I’m too feeble to handle them.

21. It seems the dope selling gang are starting to use more .45acp’s then other preferred calibers.
    I suppose they assume if your going to miss, miss bigger.

    • Must be a west of the Mississippi thing…….or your locals got an odd lot in sale. Haven’t heard of 45 in gang use since the mid 90’s

22. No I don’t believe it is.

23. They seem to want military grade weapons. And at the same time, they don’t understand the civilian disadvantages to having them.

    Any shotgun. 12, 16, 20, or 410 would all be great man stoppers. You most likely won’t over penetrate either.

    • May want to double check your numbers for anything bigger than #4 buck re penetration. But yes anything larger than 410 appropriately loaded does nasty things to a person and 410 is getting into useful territory with some loadings but honestly would take 45 colt over it for anything not involving hunting or clays.

24. .38 is a great round. I would carry it all day.

    I generally purchase .357 firearms, for versatility, but honestly I prefer .38 for recoil.

    However the last time I went shopping (admittedly not super recently) it was relatively hard to find compared to .357, and the price difference was either negligible, or .357 was actually cheaper (maybe they are cranking out more of that stuff?)

    Pre Covid, .38 was significantly cheaper and as plentiful if not more so vs. .357.

    • Pre Covid it was more available online and then varied by area. For upper NY it was about gone and stayed gone by 2016 election. Of course depending on what data set you look through 9mm will outsell 38 special something like 18-20 to 1 so could just be the restock is gone as soon as it hits the shelves until people are comfortable with what they have again (like 357 Sig and a few other less popular but still used calibers).

25. h ttps://underwoodammo.com/38-special-150-grain-lead-wadcutter/

    1000 fps. Damned good for self defense. The Mrs. uses a revolver due to arthritis and lack of certain joint mobility in her hands.
    I use this in a BUG when I carry a second.

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