“It was just a little accident. Dave is an excellent marksman. Apparently the Glocks don’t have the trigger safety that they should have.” Huh? Them’s fightin’ words, GLOCKnoids! That’s Connersville, Indiana mayor Leonard Urban trying to explain away his top cop’s negligent discharge that send a round through his own leg. But you gotta give it to Chief David Counceller. As usatoday.com reports, he’s not making any excuses. “‘I need to pay more attention,’ Counceller said. ‘I know what the dangers are. It was pure carelessness on my part.'” There’s still a problem, though . . .
Actually there are two. The first is that this isn’t Counceller’s first ND. He shot himself in the hand 15 years ago while unloading his heater. The second hiccup is that he’s running for reelection.
“If anyone says this could never happen to them, they’re mistaken,” Counceller said. “You have to keep your guard up at all times. Some candidates are out there doing things for kids to try to get elected. Me, I shoot myself. What a way to get publicity.”
Well, good luck in that reelection effort, Chief. You’re probably going to have to get out there, kiss a few more babies and maybe make a parking ticket or two go away. And if it helps at all, we hereby grant you permission to use this image on your reelection web site.
Just a little accident. Hmmm.
Yea, it only made a little hole……..going in.
Yep, just can’t fix stupid.
If he had hit the femoral artery, that could have fixed it.
well at least he’s not being a total douche about it. or trying to throw responsibility elsewhere. so, there’s that.
the mayor needs to shut his mouth and stop trying to cover up or gloss over something like this. it’s not something to take lightly, and trying the blame game out is stupid – not to mention using the “not enough safeties” BS mantra. kudos to the chief for taking ownership of the ND, especially in spite of the mayor.
Except……that he’s blaming his clothing. Oh sure, he’s throwing out the obligatory “It was my fault”, but that authenticity vaporizes the instant he turns around and blames his clothing for pulling the trigger.
In the grand conspiracy between the pistol and the jacket, we may never know who was on the grassy knoll negligently shoving this gun into the holster, but we do at least know that the magic bullet went straight through this jackass’ leg.
Trigger safeties are a joke. They are there just to satisfy some lawyers. The total trigger is less than a quarter inch wide so anything catching the edge would likely depress the safety that is less than an 8th inch away. A shirt tail caught in the trigger guard while holstering an IWB won’t know the difference between the safety and the other part of the trigger.
Ding ding ding ^^^ this x 1000. Safety is between your ears.
you have finger on bang swiitch and do just what is required to make it go bang. if you do not want it to go bang keep finger away from bang switch.
If you read the linked story, that doesn’t appear to be what happened. As the Chief tells it, he was re-holstering when some fabric from his jacket got in the way and tripped the trigger.
Sure it did… He can tell that story all he wants. I don’t believe it for one second.
I would argue that the fabric didn’t “trip” anything. I’ve never known any inanimate object to do anything unless acted upon by some force.
The Chief didn’t pay attention while he was holstering his weapon. Due to his inattention, he caused a foreign object to enter the trigger guard. The Chief then “tripped” the trigger when he pushed the weapon and its trigger against that foreign object.
This is why I don’t like Glocks. If anything of any substance, say a carelessly re-pocketed clip-on knife or a pen hanging out just wrong enters the trigger guard while re-holstering, it’s all too easy to light one off. Yes, it requires carelessness. (Sh)it happens sometimes.
And all you Glock-boys – I don’t care – don’t tell me – I’m not listening. I’ll stick with my antediluvian double action revolver, thank you. At least there is perceptible movement and resistance in the hammer and trigger before the bang, not just an instant give. I keep my thumb on the hammer when re-holstering for just this reason.
Lead, if you find carelessness happening when you’re handling your firearms, then maybe that’s a sign that you shouldn’t handle firearms. It is not at all difficult for me to keep my finger off the trigger until I’m ready to shoot or to exercise caution when reholstering a handgun. This is why, in 27 years of handling and shooting all kinds of firearms, I have never had a negligent discharge.
I like my Glock. I also like my 1911.
When I carry the 1911, it’s in condition 0. When I insert it into the holster, I’m pressing against the grip safety. In that state, it’s no different from my Glock – pushing against a foreign object inside the trigger guard is going to make it go bang.
I recognize and even argee with Leadbelly’s point. But, I disagree with the idea that it serves as a point of cention regarding Glock’s design, nor do I agree that it serves as a reason to avoid Glocks. There are no safeties on most of the pocket guns I’ve owner. Still haven’t shot myself because I’M NOT A DUMBASS!
Oh, and the G42 still sucks.
O.K. Guys, I’ve got more than 55 years of gun handling, also with no negligent discharges. My daddy had some emphatic means of discouraging foolishness in his arsenal.
The point is, it’s a big damn human race, and not everyone is perfect, or even half-bright. All I’m saying is that I feel that the most popular handgun out there MAY not be the paragon of fool-proofness it’s made out to be.
Leadbelly? Sooo….your problem with Glocks is that they don’t do your thinking for you? Oh that’s rich!
“All I’m saying is that I feel that the most popular handgun out there MAY not be the paragon of fool-proofness it’s made out to be.”
Fair enough, Lead. The point I’m making though is that there is NO fool proof handgun. Some are harder to “accidentally” fire off a round from, but they can all be discharged via carelessness. And carelessness should never be a part of firearm handling. My pops had a way of reminding us of that too, haha.
5.5 lbs. of jacket fabric reistance which he negligently failed to notice in his reholstering attempt? Still a fail, even if true, which I do not believe.
And by the way, the article mentioned he was trying out a gun similar to his own. That suggests to me, a gun that is not his, right? What gun store allows you to load weapons at the counter? Gun ranges don’t even let you handle your own gun off the line. Many have a rule, and some enforce it with inspections, of not even entering the facility without all guns being unloaded and actions open. One fail after another for Officer Liar, Liar, Leg on Fire!
Dear Lead Belly – You Are Absolutely Correct Sir! I’ve mentioned on TTAG several times that Glocks are dangerous and you’d think I had insulted the Virgin Mary. The hate I got was comical. Glocks have only a safe action trigger which they say keeps the trigger from actuating unless it’s depressed directly rearward….as if triggers can be activated any other way. No grip safety. No thumb safety. I just laugh now at every accidental shooting. If you carry a Glock concealed you certainly should not have a round in the holster. Why? Because the weapon was designed by Gaston Glock for use by professional soldiers in the Austrian Army & police officers, both of which use a hard-cased external holster not some neoprene Uncle Mikes holster. Nor were they designed to be carried concealed in a woman’s purse. Disaster waiting to happen. I said on TTAG several months ago that carrying a Glock with a round in the chamber was dangerous. One simpleton said, “That’s about as stupid as having a fire-sprinkler system that you have to run outside and turn on the water before it works!” My reply to this low intellect fool was, “Yes, if you can run outside and turn on the water in 1/2 of a second…because that’s exactly how long it takes me to charge my slide…1/2 of one second.” Glocks are fine firearms but they are not designed to be carried concealed with one in the pipe. They were made to be carried condition 1 in a kydex holster on the hip of soldiers or cops. Now every other newbie in the concealed carry movement has purchased one and make us all look bad when they accidently discharge it. Let the insults begin……….
Marine? So far, you’re the slinging insults with that “low intellect fool” remark, and that’s repeated about someone who isn’t even here to defend himself. Wow.
Beyond that, the Glock-related negligent discharges I hear about in the media tend to have been committed by cops or federal agents. Now, either the pro-government, anti-2A media just isn’t reporting on all these low intellect, foolish citizens negligently discharging their concealed Glocks, or perhaps your narrative needs some reworking.
There are many negligent discharge stories reported by the anti-gun media and atleast 90% never mention the maker/model of the firearm. There was just a story in late November about a guy who sat down in a restaurant and negligently discharged his concealed weapon causing near panic. This was widely reported……tell me what pistol he had? You can’t because it wasn’t part of any report. I noticed this years ago and did a little research. Apparently Glock (and admittedly others too) send a lawyer out immediately who basically offers a settlement check if you sign a form promising not to tell the press it was a Glock. This is more common than I had thought and many gun makers do it. You can probably still access the info through police reports but almost no one will go to the trouble. Glocks are dangerous and have injured many people you’ll never hear about or won’t hear reporting on the specific weapon discharged.
Here is the text book definition of a low intellect simpleton fool – “Someone who carries a gun for protection then shoots themself with that gun.”
Sometimes they go off with something other than the finger hitting the bang switch.
Actually, in 17 years of gun ownership and over 30 handling guns and rifles I have NEVER shot myself or had a negligent discharge. And I’m not the only gun owner I know with this record. Saying that it will sooner or later happen is ridiculous unless like the chief you are a negligent nincompoop.
I second this motion. I’ve never had an ND and I work with guns that aren’t even all there… So, even if the gun isn’t all there, no problem. The problem is when the PERSON isn’t all there. Police Chief said this out loud and the angry mob with torches and pitcforks hasn’t shown up yet? Not just Glock owners, but all gun owners. This guy is a fucking moron and a danger to society! Just non-chalantly wirting off such extreme negligence and unaccountability… WTF?
Inventing my own stuff… Handled literally thousands of guns in various sates of disrepair, many with un-struck primers stuck in the chamber accombanied by questionable fire control components. Stuff most “well trained” people wouldn’t even want to get close to.
No NDs. Never. Not even once. YEah, sure, eventually gonna happen. Fuck you man, just fuck you.
Uh oh. There’s an actual physical Idiot Gun Owner of the Day trophy? It’s not just a figurative acknowledgment?
Better look up what happened with Bill Cosby and the Golden Raspberry awards before you have to start shipping those out in bulk.
Wasn’t the whole argument then that the statue had better be made of actual gold? In this case the only statement TTAG makes is that the recipient needs to be an idiot…..
The argument was that the business organization publicly stated he had been bestowed the award, so they needed to deliver. That they be made of gold was just further rubbing their nose in it.
Glocks don’t have the trigger safety that they should have? You mean they actually have the kind where they go bang when you pull the trigger? I’m all agape…
So if the Chief has ignored the 4 rules twice, what other rules is he ignoring?
“Apparently the Glocks don’t have the trigger safety that they should have.”
Yup. Apparently not idiot proof. Hope he doesn’t have to shoot himself too many more times before catching on. Even if the trigger caught some fabric while re-holstering, a little caution goes a long way.
2 for 2, can’t find a better shot on the force.
must have been a ghost glock
LOL! I award you 25 internetz.
Well, for once it wasn’t an LCP.
Bring back the 3rd Gen Smiths. Decocker version that was prescribe to many agencies.
It’s bad enough that the hire the worst people that they can find for this job, but he’s the top of the pyramid! I don’t mean to rant but holy crap! These people are the ones that need mental health checks and have their guns taken away, not us…
Apparently the kind of safety that Glock “should have” is the kind that lets a person reholster their gun in a completely careless manner and not be able to shoot themselves. Oh wait, it doesn’t matter how many safeties there are or what kind they are, you can’t stop stupid.
They’re waiting for the new sentient Glock. It will be able to determine when it shouldn’t go bang. . .
Isn’t that the famous California Smart Gun?
Dear Chiefy, please do not shoot yourself again. The third time is the charm, and nobody needs an extra navel.
“If anyone says this could never happen to them, they’re mistaken,” Counceller said.
While I might not say it could never happen to me, my dad lived to the ripe old age of 90 & it never happened to him.
I hope you or someone close is reading this. From one member of your generation to another: You just demonstrated to the world that it’s time to hang up the hardware and play with your grandkids. Really. I mean it.
The chief admitted his failure. Anyone who says that it has never happened to them and won’t, because they are so careful, are on the road to complacency.
He didn’t make excuses for himself. For that reason I would vote for him. He sounds like an honest guy that made an honest mistake and fessed up to it.
Seconded – he did it with appropriate self-deprecating humor as well. Hope he remembers.
And it could just as easily been the result of a mini-stroke.
I’d still hand him a rubber gun and make him keep the real one in his glove box.
It’s only a matter of time till he goes to scratch his head with the barrel and BOOM!!
Someone has to say it: Springfield XD. (Although even a grip safety can’t stop stupid from happening; sounds to me like this guy would have found a way around it.)
If you’re reholstering, your hand is generally on the grip, and depressing the grip safety. There is no other way to hold an XD and maintain positive control. It’s very likely that it would have been the same result with an XD.
KB Dave,to more safely holster the XD or any other pistol with a grip safety just put your thumb on the back of the slide while holstering. This with release that grip safety and help prevent the type of ND the Chief experienced. Plenty of trainers teach this method and you have plenty of control over the pistol when doing this.
@SAS 2008, not only are you correct, but I was taught that pushing the thumb against the rear of the slide is the ONLY way to holster a M1911.
Alternatively, place your index finger BEHIND the trigger as you reholster, thus preventing the trigger from being depressed. This is another technique that’s taught, and it works better for me. My XD is a subcompact, and I don’t have enough grip area to use the thumb on slide method without still depressing the bottom part of the grip safety with the base of my thumb.
Ralph, I was taught to holster all pistols this way just so you are always doing it the same way grip safety or not.
KB Dave, I am having a hard time visualizing how the base of your thumb still depresses the grip safety on the XD Subcompact. I have one of those also and I don’t have the problem. I have pretty small hands though so maybe that makes a difference.
Nonsense! You apply pressure to the back of the slide to seat the weapon into the holster. I’ve carried a hrvatski semokries (aka Springfield XD) for 7 years and never depress the grip safety when holstering the pistol. I maintain postitive control at all times.
Cool story bro. You’re also the guy who refuses to believe that a Glock is just as safe as any other handgun when handled responsibly. So… yeah.
Nothing wrong with Glocks. Just accept the fact that some guns are easier than others to handle safely.
Well as the old saying goes, cops are really firemen who couldn’t pass the tests.
You would think after the first time you shoot yourself, the lesson would be learned. I mean a ND is one thing, a ND where you shoot yourself is on a whole ‘nother level. Then to do it twice?
Once upon a time, I bought a spring clip that bolted to the back of my Glock, so that you could wear the gun inside the waste band without a holster. Only the grip would be exposed, under your shirt. The package plainly said not to use the device with a round in the chamber, but I ignored that. I found it quite difficult to get the clip over my jeans and onto the belt. Pulling the belt out with one hand and pushing the gun down with the other, I thought I could manage it — but my jeans buckled behind the belt and went into the trigger guard. When I pushed the pistol down, you know what happened. I was fortunate enough to only scorch my ass and ruin a new pair of jeans, but I certainly learned that, yes, IT REALLY CAN happen to you! That’s why I pocket carry now . . .
“The package plainly said not to use the device with a round in the chamber, but I ignored that.”
Hmmmm … perhaps not following the directions was your problem. So yes, “it can happen to you” if you blatantly ignore the directions that came with your equipment.
The point probably being to the naysayers who automatically say such a thing (fabric in guard causing a discharge) is impossible.
Having had clothing get between my holster and Glock, I can see how the second incident could happen. Glocks have a relatively short trigger pull. Most likely instead of withdrawing the gun from the holster, he tried to tug the clothing out and it could very easily pull the trigger. Maybe this guy should carry with an empty chamber. Or get an XD45 with a thumb safety.
“Maybe this guy should carry with an empty chamber.”
He’s already shot himself twice. I’d say it’s rubber gun time!
Not one to cut stupidity much slack, in fairness cops holster and unholster their sidearms alot more than the average Joe. There is a reason the military has kept a thumb safety/decocker on their sidearms. In the Western days gunslingers carried their Colt 45 with the hammer on an empty chamber. Even when being diligent with repetitive tasks, people make mistakes, things happen. Glocks and other firearms without manual safeties are more likely to be involved with unintended discharges. Not everyone should carry a Glock, there are options, this guy might have been better served with a Beretta 92 after blowing a hole in his hand with a Glock the first go around.
Why do you think cops holster and unholster their guns a lot more?
SAS cops have to alter their uniforms and enter secure areas frequently. Every time they have a prisoner they are likely to have to holster and reholster. This is ignoring drawing a firearm at a scene. So, yeah, they’re gonna be holstering and reholstering much more than your average gun owner.
“Dave is an excellent marksman”
I’m an average at best marksman, but I still haven’t shot myself. Maybe I just need to practice more.
I swear, those Glocks have minds for their own, they just go off randomly and without warning, an unsavory lot those Glock pistols.
No mention in the article of any criminal citation for this negligent discharge. From the Mayor’s nonchalance, I wouldn’t expect any, either.
Can anyone name any private sector job involving firearms that would allow someone to keep their job following a negligent discharge? What about getting a promotion, as this guy is seeking, following one? I’ve seen forklift drivers fired on the spot for starting off in reverse and negligently backing into a wall, even without causing injury. I saw a cherry picker roll right down a dock, over the edge and into the freakin’ Gulf of Mexico because the operator failed to put it in park and engage the brake as he hopped off to make a pit stop. No injuries and the machinery was insured, but that guy got booted and arrested.
So what happens to this cop? Just a laugh, a scar and a continuation of business as usual for the ruling class. Civil servants have become civil tyrants.
These things happen. Just not to me or you.
Since the most important safety is between the ears, I suspect he would find even a Sig or 1911 lacking in safety devices.
“It could happen to anyone” ???
Shooting yourself twice just shows you’re stupid and don’t know how to handle guns safely.
Another reason I dont like striker fired handguns.
Unless there is a positive locking safety, too many bad things can happen when a handgun is re holstered in an IWB holster.
A duty holster or well fitted rigid owb holster is much safer.
And you peerless experts should be a little more merciful.