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In its infinite wisdom (or lack thereof), offers both David Horsey’s cartoon and Targeting Eric Holder, Darrell Issa buys into gun nut delusions. For the sake of brevity and blood pressure control, I won’t deconstruct the Pulitzer Prize-winner’s screed, save to say he ridicules the idea that Fast and Furious was designed to amp-up support for gun control by establishing a connection between U.S. gun store guns and Mexican cartel crime. His main argument: all those who support this theory are raving lunatics. Horsey’s alternate theory is . . . uh . . . unclear. “Just what is being covered up is not so apparent, at least to objective observers.” And “House Democratic Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi has her own conspiracy theory . . .

She asserted in her weekly press briefing that the Republicans are gunning for Holder with the clear aim “to undermine the person who is assigned to stop the voter suppression in our country. I’m telling you, this is connected. It is no accident.”

That last sentence is certainly true, as is Horsey’s admission that “Pelosi may be wrong . . .”

So what IS the truth? I’m not sure Horsey cares. But the same cannot be said for the families of U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and Immigrations and Customs Enforcement Agent Jaime Zapata, murdered by guns supplied to criminals by the ATF. Nor the families of the [literally] countless Mexican nationals who died at the end of one of the over 2000 ATF-enabled firearms.

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  1. One of the posts here recently touched on this, but I haven’t been able to figure it out. Why is Zapata’s name routinely left out of the conversation about F&F, while Terry’s is always mentioned? Is it because it is known for a fact that the weapon used on Terry came from F&F, but in Zapata’s case it’s not confirmed? Or because Terry’s death happened on US soil, while Zapata was killed in Mexico?

    • Because the media thinks that a body count of 1 federal agent sounds less damning than a body count of 2 federal agents and untold thousands of Mexican citizens.

    • Agent Zapata wasn’t killed with firearms from operation F&F but from another operation ran out of South East TX. In the case of Agent Zapata, it is confirmed that two firearms used in his death were a result of the F&F like operation.

  2. I love how Democrats call anyone else “paranoid” yet they’re the ones always foaming at the mouth about these “vast conspiracies” against them.

    • And in the same breath they’ll give you 860 ways the evil, capitalist, patriarchal government has persecuted them and then demand that more power be given to that same government. They’re freaking demented.

      • It’s not like the omnipresent, patriarchal father-state the Republicans envision is any better than the onipresent, matriarchal mother-state the Democrats want.

        The whole system is a scam to get you to vote away your liberties to an omnipresent parent-state.

        Wake up, man.

        • Just a fantastic job of making a completely baseless and off target assumption about my politics and awareness of the process. Congrats. Man.

  3. Hmmm. ATF Phoenix admittedly gave false information to Congress and the American People. ATF HQ admittedly gave false information to Congress and the American People. The Department of Justice admittedly gave false information to Congress and the American People. Eric Holder admittedly give false information to Congress and the American People. Have I missed anyone? Oh, yeah…. The White House.

    Does anyone see a pattern here?

    Right-Wing Conspiracy? Yeah, right! Gun Nut delusion? Yeah, right!

    Someone’s certainly deluded…. and it appears to be David Horsey.

  4. When we have divided government (often a good thing) and the party in the White House refuses to give documents to the party in Congress, charges like this fly. What it shows me is that both parties are more interested in power, control, and secrecy than in what benefits the people.

    • I have thought the same thing for a long time about F&F. IF it was truly about just giving guns to Mexican thugs I can’t see how the over 1,000 pages that were given to congress wouldn’t provide enough information to make informed decisions about F&F. Why does determining if the Pres had anything knowledge of it matter, and if it does matter the go find Bush and Alberto Gonzales and bring them before Congress to explain Wide Receiver. This is a TWO administration problem that spans 6 years. Yes Big O let 2,00 guns walk into Mexico while G.W. only let 600 walk across (and yes 600 guns made it into Mexico and were not recovered and no attempts to arrest anyone was made during the Bush years.) but both administrations let guns go that have been used in crimes that caused deaths. Why not grab Bush and Gonzales and let them explain Wide Receiver as well as Big O and Eric Holder.

      • To be fair I would support an in depth look at any of the three known operations which took place in the last decade with regard to guns, and Mexico.
        In this instance with F&F I can say it was a bad idea from the get go, and totally flawed to the point where most people who do operations would be scratching their heads. To that end Holder and Obama need to be held accountable. It happened under Obama’s watch.
        They also need to look at any money laundering that was done by banks with regard to the cartels as well. I know there are stories floating around about this but they don’t make headlines.

      • Besides the differences in how the programs were conducted (in W.R. they coordinated with the Mexican government, there were a lot less guns and they stopped when the realized the problems with tracking (they tried to use electronic trackers, but it didn’t work)), Bush and Gonzalez aren’t in the government any more. No matter how incompetent you may think them to be, they aren’t in a position to do any more harm.

        The point of Issa’s investigation is to try to figure out who authorized this debacle, and make sure they aren’t in a position to do anything else like this again. If it was at the sub-Holder level, then fine, just give us the name(s). This is government, there HAS to be some kind of paper trail.

      • Irock:

        You are absolute correct. Wide Receiver was exactly the same thing as F&F …

        Well except for letting the Mexican government in on the operations …

        But as you say F&F and WR are the same …

        Well then there was the issue tracking devices…

        So except for working with the Mexican government and the implanting of tracking devices F&F was exactly like WR.

        But there the Mexican authorities were supposed catch the smugglers when took the weapons across the border but of course being corrupt they let the guns slip through.

        So except for the working with the Mexican Government, placing tracking devices on the guns and a one time failure to intercept the guns on the Mexican side of border F&F and WR were the same…

        but after the failed attempt to track the guns across border WR shut down that part operations…

        So except for working with the Mexican Government, placing tracking devices on the weapons, letting the guns go across the border once where they were supposed to be intercepted by the Mexican government and shutting down the gun walking after the Mexican government failed to fulfill their part the bargain F&F was exactly like WR.

        By the way, according to your hero the AG it was only 300 guns and he just sent a letter to the committee saying he was mistaken about the former AG’s role in the operation. In other words he lied for a second time and is guilty of perjury.

        But it’s all Bush’s fault.

        You can always tell a liberal because all they can do is repeat talking points even when they have been declared “no longer operative.”

  5. In more ways than one can count, people of the leftist progressive mind are like spoiled children. What does a spoiled child do when you confront them about something they did wrong? They kick and scream and try to blame it on a sibling and cry how they’re not lying.

    Then a spoiled child grows up into an entitled, loathsome narcissist whose worldview is so centered on himself and his constructed fantasy that when it becomes clear that his opinion/belief is wrong, he lashes out just that much stronger. By and large, progressives are adult bodies housing the rotten mentality and emotion of spoiled children. The ones that aren’t are simply scheming opportunists who know how to wave candy in front of those spoiled children to manipulate them.

  6. That Golden Coast Bag needs to get a grip on reality. The House has no f*cking enforcement arm with which to “intimidate voters,” unless she’s suggesting some grassroots voter-intimidation scheme that would then be left unchecked by a neutered Justice Department. The only folks of “authoritay” who can intimidate voters belong to the EXECUTIVE branch.

  7. This is just another day on the hill. Seriously I think Nancy has been drinking or something. She sounds drunk when speaking.
    From what I am hearing it sounds like the democrats are trying to say anything and throw it against the wall to see if it sticks. They have even gone so far as to say, well no one really cares! Of course we care.
    The fact that no one seemed to know about it, yet now everyone is invoking executive privilege and lord knows what else to stop anything from coming out sounds really bad.
    I look at it this way to make it simple. It should upset anyone regardless of their political affiliation.

    Our own tax dollars were used to fund gun to known Mexican cartel operatives which then turned around and killed two US agents, and untold Mexican nationals.

    If that doesn’t upset you then nothing will…
    They have even said that F&F started before Obama, which is untrue. While there were other operations similar in nature they were not the F&F. To top that off it is my understanding that operation wide receiver, under Bush, was done like a traditional sting, where the bad guys were arrested with the arms during or shortly after they purchased them. Now the 600 that was spoken of I am not sure how those got away, but it sounds like the other operations were done in a more traditional manner.

  8. Bill Whittle has a new video on Afterburner concerning F&F. Well worth your time.

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