I don’t approve of poaching. But I understand why an impoverished hunter might poach to feed their family. Poaching for a trophy kill? Lying to cut the line for a once-in-a-lifetime tag? Are you kidding? I’ve got zero respect for Larry Altimus. From sanluisobispo.com:
Every time a hunter applies for the Utah big game hunting permit, but doesn’t get one, he or she receives a bonus point. That increases the person’s odds of getting one later on, according to Utah’s Division of Wildlife Services.
But as a non-resident, Larry Altimus’ chances were still slim, wildlife authorities said. If he claimed residency in Utah, he knew he’d have a better chance of drawing a permit reserved for state residents, authorities said. Altimus lived in Pearce, Arizona.
So in March 2014, he used the address of a home he rented in Kanab, Utah to apply for one of those 10 in-state permits, authorities said. A few months later he finally got one.
Mr. Altimus headed for southwestern Utah where he shot a desert bighorn ram (picture above). Someone saw his posted pic and ratted him out.
A jury found Altimus, a professional hunting guide (no less), guilty of poaching.
Thanks to the Interstate Wildlife Violators Compact, Mr. Altimus is now banned from hunting in every state save Delaware, Massachusetts and Hawaii. For ten years. But he can, you know, watch clients hunt.
Anyone amoral enough to hire the convicted hunting guide might want to check all the local hunting laws before heading out. Just sayin’ . . .
Makes me wonder if (and how many times) the guy has pulled fast ones in the past?
This whole thing is horse shit! He was legally renting a residence in Utah at the time he applied for and gained the permit. If “maintaining” a residence is a requirement, then that needs to be added to the laws.
Sounds to me like the state is butt hurt.
Every state has very clear conditions for being considered a resident. It is in the law
Of course he just HAD to brag about his kill by posting a “bragging rights” photo on social media. How I detest these kinds of fools.
So the guy gamed an unfair system that was stacked against him, paid an exorbitant $513 fee (!) which would have been over $1500 for a non-resident and which he would have paid if given a chance, and shot a ram in a fair chase.
Hang him! He killed the King’s deer . . . uh, ram!
This wasn’t poaching.
According to a jury of his peers, it was poaching, apparently.
How messed up does a person’s moral compass need to be that he would lie about his place of residence for a chance to …. shoot something, brag about it and hang a head on his wall?
Personally, I get no satisfaction from cheating.
I’m with you .
Well clearly the jury were morons and the guy who ratted him out is a narc who should be burned at the stake.
A jury of ignorant idiots who don’t seem to get that he was a resident when he applied for and gained the permit. Bad trial.
Illogical. It is impossible in the non-quantum world for an object to occupy more than one location in the space/time continuum at the same instant/locus.. He could not, therefore, have been a resident of both Arizona and Utah.
Your argument demands Californians be allowed to rent a room in a motel in Arizona and then vote to restrict firearms.
The hell it’s not poaching.
Wildlife is a resource belonging to the residents of the state in which it’s found. The residents, as owners of that natural resource, get to decide how best to utilize that resource. This man took part of those resources through fraudulent means, in other words theft.
And how is it an unfair system? The system is intended to preserve the health of the wildlife populations so that the benefits of their existence may be enjoyed by everybody, not just a select few.
It’s not poaching because he took the tag that would have gone to someone else. It’s not poaching. In either case, be it him or a resident there, a tag was issued. Not poaching.
Did he play by the rules, in the spirit of the rules? I don’t know how many nights he stayed in his rented property, but if he didn’t play by the spirit of the rules, it’s time for the tribalist hoard to rain hatred on him.
“he took the tag that would have gone to someone else.”
That’s called theft, so he’s just a plain thief.
He apparently paid good money for that tag, I assume he has the cancelled check.
So… not stealing, not a thief. But he obtained that tag through fraudulent means, which is apparently poaching according to the laws of Utah.
He’s more akin to the able-bodied guy who rides through Disneyland in a wheelchair so he can skip the long lines and get right on the train to “It’s a small world.” He’s a cheater, a fraud, a scoundrel, and a piece of $h!…
Amen. I agree
I see both arguments:
Pro: He jumped through hoops, rented a house, paid a fee, won the lottery, got a state-issued license, hunted in-season and got his trophy. It’s not like he skulked out in the night to rape a bald eagle. I get it.
Con: He lied about his residency, to the government, in order to get something they were specifically saving for their tax-paying residents. And it’s not that he couldn’t have gotten a license, it’s just that he didn’t want to wait in line and get his bonus points like every other out of state hunter. I hope whoever WOULD have gotten the license (but got a bonus point instead) follows laws better than this guy does.
So if you want to say it’s not poaching, that’s fine, but at least say he’s a selfish jackwad.
I agree Ralph. He rented a property in a different state and paid an enormous fee for just a chance and did so by trying to outwit the system legally. And now he can’t hunt some deer in his home state for food. Lame shit.
I’ve still got respect for Larry.
Larry. I respect you. You were given a raw deal. But i’m sure you learned a lesson. The state of Utah own all the wildlife in Utah. Those animals belong to the state. Owned by the state. And you have to play by the state’s rules, even in spirit, or the irrational tribalist hoard will turn against you.
I take it you’ll be fine with me renting a room in every state in the Union, registering as a voter in each of them, and actually casting the votes?
You like guns, don’t you? If so, sounds good to me!
If you do a dishonest thing, you pay the price and I think he got what he deserved. It’s like with an insurance claim. The claim can be legitimate but if you intentionally mislead the insurance company to get more money, the entire claim is denied. You can’t be a little crooked.
We’ve all seen the more egregious examples of poaching Liberte writes about, this is not one of the worst… but the law is the law.
To report poaching in Texas: call 1-800-792-4263.
All those people who admired over the years. Most of em don’t do that anymore. All those records. So what.
Phhht. He tried to outwit the game legally, and can no longer hunt. But because he he played the system like a card counter playing blackjack, he’s amoral! and you shouldn’t hire him!
“But because he he played the system like a card counter playing blackjack, he’s amoral! and you shouldn’t hire him!”
That’s one way to look at it.
Another would be to say he lied, and cheated residents out of a chance to hunt the ram. Plus, being a professional hunting guide, he certainly knew the rules, and knew what he was doing was illegal.
So, yes, he’s amoral.
BTW, card counting isn’t illegal. So your analogy (like most) isn’t really a good one.
Card counting is illegal – to the casino.
How do you “steal” from thieves/organized crime anyhow? The state protects the casino boss so that they can scrape of their pound of flesh to fund pork barrel spending and so the casino boss can grant 0.2% of his ill gotten gains to “charity”.
Card counting is only illegal if you use a device, if you’re rainman and can do it in your head, it’s legal but they’ll still kick your ass out and ban you.
Card counting is not illegal. Let that sink in.
Casinos are private property. They can ban you for card counting, but it’s not illegal.
They can ban you for wearing white socks, even though it’s not illegal.
Looks like his crime was more lying to the government than it was poaching.
Billy Bob’s got it in a nutshell! I couldn’t have worded it better. Great Job, Billy bob.
no pitty. he’s been enjoying ill-gotten gains for some time now, but #timesup LOL couldnt help it
Meh. He paid a lot of money to rent a house in the state. He had a permit, so no more Bighorns got killed than the state wanted to get killed. It was a minor infraction, but the state does not like it when you disrespect it.
Poach (verb) definition #2: to take game or fish illegally.
Yep, he poached.
Sounds like he paid a lot money, and played the system a bit. However, the guy got a legal tag, got a legal hunt done under all other circumstances. Seems the reason people are mad, is ‘cause he got the tag they wanted before they were able to.
He paid his fees, got a tag, and hunted legally.
By definition, that isn’t a poaching. He may have defrauded the state by claiming residence which he may not have actually been entitled to, and some tags as well. He should’ve been tried and convicted of defrauding the state, not of poaching, if anything at all.
He’s a resident of Arizona and lied by claiming to be a resident of Utah in order to get a Utah resident permit. And you claim he hunted legally? How is it legal to lie about your state of residence?
After my stepdad retired, he snowbirded between Washington State and Arizona. Had a house in both states, lived in both places for about ~6 months at a time.
What was his ‘real’ state of residence? He satisfied the legal requirements to be considered a resident of both.
Applying Rosignol’s brilliant logic and reasoning means anyone residing in one or more States should be subject to all the rights, duties, and privileges of a legal resident. So do these snow bird folks vote in both states? How about paying state income tax in more than one State? The answer is no and only a dishonest [email protected]$$ would try to rationalize lying to obtain in state hunting privileges.
There are more in-depth articles out there on this. He was actually not convicted of “poaching”. But I suppose that’s just semantics. He was actually convicted of the “wanton destruction of wildlife”. The authorities recognized that there are many folks with secondary residences that are legal to hunt there. Apparently, immediately after the hunt he abandoned the state. Not sure what the exact “requirements” are. They mentioned these people also get residence hunting permits. Not sure if he took that step either. Regardless, somewhere along the way, he didn’t follow the laws of residency. Anyways- got to give him credit. It’s a grueling hunt and at 69, he’s a stud compared to most 50 year olds.
He will have to decide whether he wants to remain a resident of Washington or if he wants to become an Arizona resident. If I were him I would choose Arizona that way during November I will not miss a chance to vote.
I’m not an attorney but would think the fraud part would invalidate the legal part.
There is no doubt in my mind that Utah’s Fish & Game regulations
1) Clearly define “residence” for the purposes of applying for hunting licenses and tags and he didn’t satisfy the definition.
2) Clearly spell out the penalties for submitting false information on an application for any of the above, and that doing so invalidates any licenses/tags issued.
So his tag was invalidated because it was obtained by supplying false information.
No valid tag = poaching.
That’s just my take on how the jury reached the verdict it did. I guess if we want to know more we would need to read the transcript of the trial.
He didn’t “game the system.” He lied.
I’m by no means saying what he did was right, but I think the charge should’ve been different. I’m thinking maybe even perjury depending on the forms. When I hear poaching, I’m thinking some dude at 2am out shooting animals on private property with no tags, licenses, etc. Maybe my thought process is off, but I get where you’re coming from.
Actually- the conviction is a felony. Not sure how he didn’t get any prison, but he’s not only banned from hunting in 47 states, he’s banned from owning firearms.
Yeah. He definitely doesn’t deserve the right to protect himself and his family because he tried to trick the state of Utah to allow him to hunt a wandering male sheep in the desert.
Further, he definitely needs to pay $30,000 for this outrage, and get a felony on his record. How dare he rent a property in Utah and claim residence so he could hunt a wandering male sheep in the desert! Outrage!
I agree with you completely. It’s outrageous.
Dumbass willfully committed a felony to feed his ego. If the penalties didn’t matter to him, they shouldn’t matter to anyone else. I sure won’t shed any tears over someone with a skewed moral compass losing his rights.
The reason the state has to manage game is because the hunting fraternity has too many shit bags like this guy. People who are willing to commit crimes to put a head on their wall are the same people who would happily pull the trigger on the last animal in the state.
How is this reciprocity not an example of government overreach? Penalties like that disgust me, as does the discriminatory fee schedule applied by most states these days.
It’s not so much he violated the states authority, it’s that he essentially took a spot meant for a local, being an out of stater. That’s not nessisarily felony territory, but it certainly deserves punishment. I get incredibly annoyed with out of state people who come to my state, thinking they own everything and how superior they are for being from New York or something. Or how because how they do things where they’re from that’s how we should do it here. I say simply punish him for being a carpet bagger.
This guy is a well known ram / sheep,hunter has several in the “book “ his first book ram was in 1,969. He has also been in books on sheep hunting . He owns and operates a guide sevice in ten states .
He’s been killing them for 40years .
Just another trophy hunter with a over inflated ego , who stops at nothing .
They issue ten tags a year, he built up points , for yearly rejections applying as a non resident then claims to be a resident ( he wasn’t there for a year as there Regs clearly state ) and use all those points, took a hunt away from legal hunter . A guy who may never in his entire life get one chance .F this guy.
Oh and does any writter here research at all before writing …
Why did the state give him a permit to begin with? If the state gives you a drivers livense you assume you are legal to drive, yet ultimately you may not be.
I don’t see poaching if he had a residence in that state,probably where he fucked up was not having a registered car with plates to match. And the states don’t give a rat’s ass about critters, they just want the money.
Could a hunter that owns a summer home in UTAH and a winter home in Texas fall victim to a law like this despite being a part time resident of 2 states.
Yes they can! As a matter of fact Texas Game Wardens catch hundreds of snow birds every year who cheat and lie when they buy a Texas resident hunting or fishing license because they don’t want to pay the higher fee for an out of state license.
Lots of dumb folks out there who believe they’ll never get caught which of course is why they lie and cheat just to save a few dollars.
it is a shame that a snowbird ends being treated as a second class citizen in Texas due to not having rights as a resident during the winter despite being required to pay property taxes for their winter home. That is taxation without representation. I thought it was frowned upon by courts for states to cause their to be different classes of citizens.
Treated like a 2nd class citizen? Seriously? Pay attention [email protected]$$ I’m trying to educate you. In the United States you have to choose ONE State and ONE address in that State as your legal residence. It’s against the law to have a drivers license in more than ONE State and it’s illegal to vote in more than ONE State. But it is not against the law to hunt in more than ONE State provided you don’t lie and cheat by obtaining a Texas resident hunting license when in fact Michigan is where your legal residence has actually been established which is why you vote in and have a drivers license from that State.
It is ironic that someone that claims to have regard for laws and rules will so readily circumvent those rules by substituting special characters in order to cuss me people out by calling them a [email protected]$$. By substituting @ for a and $ for s you demonstrate that you are willing to violate rules when you think that you can get away with it.
His residence is AZ….and from his own website ” If you want experience, honesty, and integrity consider sharing your next adventure with Altimus Adventures.”. He lied about his residency status in order to increase odds of drawing a sheep tag – and he got caught. Had he not insisted on promoting all his and his wives kills over the years, he would have gotten away with it. But he wants to be known as a top sheep hunter who follows all the rules and be a top $ guide, and thus opens himself to more scrutiny. Man up and admit
Why am I not surprised that at least a few of the same anti law & order cop haters drawn to TTAG have no difficulty rationalizing why it’s perfectly acceptable for a resident of Arizona to lie and cheat to bad a trophy ram in Utah?
Why am I not surprised that the badge lickers and authority worshipers want to turn everything into a felony and increase the power of the state at every chance they get?
Amazing that the Feds didn’t hit him with “Interstate something or another” charges.
That would be the Lacey Act you cop hating outlaw luvin lowlife p.o.s., and yep, Altimus violated it, and yep, the violation is a Federal felony. FYI, parallel prosecutions in State and Federal Court for the same criminal conduct or series of events in a crime spree are rare for any crime including felony game law violations. Since the State of Utah did such a bang up job prosecuting Altimus on violations resulting in a felony conviction in State Court there was no need for a Federal Game Warden to weigh in, and it’s doubtful the U.S. Attorney would have accepted a case for Federal prosecution. Had Altimus been able to brother in law his way out of State charges, you bet, the Feds would have hammered his sorry lying poaching @$$ for a Lacey Act felony and he’d probably get to spend a year or three in a Federal prison.
Altimus is just like the hood rat that brags on social media about robbing the 7/11 and then is surprised when the cops kick in his door.
Don’t show off your crimes. You have a better chance of getting away with them.
An active duty military member stationed in UTAH can legally acquire a resident hunting license.
Did he lose his gun rights due to this conviction? If yes then when he can legally hunt again in 10 years he will have a challenging time due to being unable to legally use a firearm.
He was convicted of a 3rd degree felony, so I’m assuming he has, but haven’t seen anything explicitly stating so. He’s 69, by the way
I’m 50 now. When I started hunting poaching meant a bad thing. But then again, laws were more reasonable back then.
In my mind, poaching needs to be TWO things.
By that criteria hunting to feed your family is not poaching.
In CT, you need to get a license and a tag ( i.e. you need to buy your rights back from the Government) to shoot a deer on your own property. Don’t try to tell me that shooting a deer in-season on your own property, is poaching. Especially if there are already too many deer around and you are not undermining science based game management policies.
To those who practice ethical hunting that the law considers poaching, I wish you the best of luck.
I’m not a hunter- but I have to ask…what if you dump a 1000 pounds of apples on your property during deer season? Is that legal/ethical or poaching?
The federal government may have to add a property tax cap to protect snowbirds on fixed incomes since the snowbirds can not vote against property tax increases in the state in which their secondary home is located.