ambulance

A reader who prefers to remain anonymous writes:

I currently work for a ambulance department as an EMT in Southern Illinois so I’m constantly in and out of hospitals the area. Not too long ago, I was dropping off some paperwork at the local ER, when I overheard some nurses discussing patients who are difficult to deal with. One nurse chimed in with this little tidbit (I’m paraphrasing):  . . . “Well, if some of these patients start asking for stuff over and over again, or are just being an asshole, I can always tell them I’ll report them as mentally unstable and they’ll get their FOID card taken away” . . .

The majority of the nurses I know are good people, hardworking and honest, but there are some who are there who have no earthly business being around other people. They are lazy, manipulative and would gladly watch someone’s rights be infringed, rather than delivering good patient care.

I understand that some people who have been diagnosed with serious mental instability shouldn’t own a firearm, but to say that you’re willing to take away a right because you don’t want to deal with a patient who may ask for a cup of water, or decide that they dont want an IV is just too much. It’s despicable.

I am concerned because, while we may still be anchored to the liberal bastion that is Chicago, we Southern Illinoisans are pretty conservative. So if this is already happening down here, I can only imagine what may be happening in the rest of the state. God bless the U.S and molon labe.

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75 COMMENTS

    • Which is why this part is, perhaps, ironic… “I understand that some people who have been diagnosed with serious mental instability shouldn’t own a firearm.” While it’s obvious that they “shouldn’t”, it’s beyond the privilege of government to say that they “can’t”. Otherwise, it goes back to the same concern the author initially expressed. One tyrant is exchanged for another.

    • A great reason not to tell a health professional *anywhere* about your firearms. If he/she is a good person, they’ll understand.

    • Just another reason to not tell them shit about your personal life, sadly this REALLY does inhibit care for people who need it.

  6. I looked up the population numbers and Chicago only has about 25% of the population.. I don’t understand why the myth persists that Chicago has enough influence to control State laws.

    • This is conjecture, because the numbers for tax revenue aren’t as easy to dig out as the numbers for population. But I would almost guarantee that the majority of tax revenue comes in from Chicago. And he who has the gold….

    • The Chicago metropolitan area has 9.7 million people and Illinois has 12.9 million. I’m not sure if the CMA includes Gary, Indiana, but either way the urban population far out numbers the rural.

      • Actually Lake County, Indiana is in the CMA so there’s a half million people you can subtract. 9.2 million out of 12.9 million.

    • We have three parties in Illinois: Republicans, Democrats, and Chicago Democrats. And the Speaker of the House, Mike Madigan (a Chicago Democrat) is also the Democratic Party Chairman and controls the purse strings (campaign funds) for two of those three parties. Also, his daughter Lisa Madigan is the Attorney General. Basically, one guy writes the laws and his daughter gets to interpret them.

      But this is why we need to be careful with labels. Some coal mining areas in Southern Illinois are Democratic strongholds but they are also rural and tend to be pro-2A. But they need to play nice with the Chicago crowd.

  7. Sounds like a good argument against the very existence of FOID cards. The more control the government has over your life, the more power the corrupt have to abuse.

      • Well sure, if you look hard enough you might even find a few people who think that the federal government taking over the entire health care industry is a good idea too. I suppose bureaucrats (even the corrupt ones) are people too.

  8. I wouldn’t be surprised.

    Once in the .mil, I walked into an argument between a friend and his wife. Things escalated, he went to the door, and she said if he took one more step out of the house she was calling the base Sexual Assault office and filing a (bogus) complaint- which would kill his career like a bullet to the head, and likely result in his imprisonment.

    • I had a woman make a similar threat to me many years ago. I said, “Go ahead, make the call, and after you hang up the phone, I will beat on you until the police arrive. If I’m going to jail, I’m gonna make it worth my while”. She realized that although I had never laid a hand on her in the past, I absolutely meant it because she had crossed the line. She backed down, and soon after I packed my stuff and left the crazy witch.

      • Here’s to putting the “fun” in “dysfunctional relationship.” My man, Joe, keepin’ it real.

    • Wow. I really, really hope that was an awful fluke said in the heat of the moment. Because *that* sounds like a relationship I’d want to be in…

      • Reminds me of “If the Navy wanted you to have a family, they would have issued you one in your seabag.” At least you still “need” permission to get married in the Navy. Not that if you just go and get married you’ll get in “trouble”. They’ll still make life **** for you though.

        But I doubt it goes much further than that. People these days seem to confuse rights and privileges (think most privileges are “rights”) and treat marriage/kids as a tax write off.

        • It’s why the navy keeps marines on ships.
          Sheep would be too obvious.

          (Son of career navy, dad to 3 marines)

        • Among other problems, junior enlisted don’t make enough to take much of a tax write off.

          Corporal pay is just fine for a single guy living in the shacks. For a family living off-base, especially in a higher-cost area like JFB Lewis-McCord in WA it’s not enough. Because it’s not supposed to be.

    • I never understood why people were so afraid of their first article 15. It’s not a career killer. You’d be hard pressed to find a commander anywhere without at least one or two in his file.

  9. “some people who have been diagnosed with serious mental instability shouldn’t own a firearm”

    Only a person’s criminal ACTIONS should impact their rights, not a person’s POTENTIAL for criminal actions.

    • Only a person’s criminal ACTIONS USING A FIREARM should impact their rights, not a person’s POTENTIAL for criminal actions.

      • I’d agree but go further and say that only if an adult is in the legitimate custody of government. If disarmed because they are in government’s legitimate custody then government is responsible for their safety. Otherwise, an individual is ultimately responsible for their own safety and cannot be debarred the use of arms by government.

    • I’m sorry, but no. If someone has had a psychotic break, suffers from paranoid schizofrenia or has certain other serious mental defects, they should not have access to firearms – we’re talking about people who are only kept semi-level by the effects of some hardcore medication. Those people should not be walking around with guns, and saying that they should taints all responsible gun owners.

      We’re talking about the Adam Lanzas and Jared Loughners of the world here.

      • Thats a fact. I wouldn’t want someone in a crowded mall with a firearm that is 3 fries short of a happy meal just because he hasn’t offed someone “yet”

        • A big part of the problem is that some fail to realize that it isn’t about what you, me, or anyone else “wants”. There is a constitution in place that empowers government with specific privileges and nothing more. If you “want” government to have more privilege then support constitutional amendments to that effect. Otherwise, please stop encouraging tyranny. We have enough of that already.

        • Very true. I make sure my firearms get all their french fries, or else they get downright pissy with me.

      • Our government hasn’t been legitimately afforded that privilege. If that is what you want then a constitutional amendment is the proper way to go about it. Supporting any other way is encouraging theft of power by government; tyranny.

        • Back in the real world, where the Constitution is open to quite a bit of interpretation (emanations and penumbras, Obamacare is a tax, etc.), every time one of these psychos shoots up a mall or a school, we come a little closer to loosing our rights (or if you prefer, having them massively and permanently violated), and maybe even having 2A removed or re-written. And when you advocate for Adam Lanzas right to bear arms, you make all gun owners seem like loonies.

        • we come a little closer to loosing our rights (or if you prefer, having them massively and permanently violated), and maybe even having 2A removed or re-written.

          Look up the meaning of unalienable again. lol

          And when you advocate for Adam Lanzas right to bear arms, you make all gun owners seem like loonies.

          I advocate no such of a thing. Government has no privilege to deprive an individual of the right to keep and bear arms when they are not in legitimate custody. Don’t like it? Then work towards constitutional amendments to change the contract. That would be the above-board way to do it instead of this sniveling, traitorous habit some have of thinking that what they “want” somehow magically makes violating the Constitution as acceptable. It’s not, regardless of how much someone might want it to so be.

        • “That would be the above-board way to do it instead of this sniveling, traitorous habit some have of thinking that what they “want” somehow magically makes violating the Constitution as acceptable, It’s not, regardless of how much someone might want it to so be.”

          Sorry champ, but if 5 senior citizens dressed in black robes “want” the constitution to be something else, then for all practical purposes that’s what it becomes. It’s usually not what I want, and in most (though not all) cases it’s not what the Founders would want either, but it’s the current reality. And you can dress it up however you want, but if you and others push a line that can be fairly read as advocating for the gun rights of Adam Lanza, then we are all going to find our “natural, constitutional, civil, celestial, innate, biological, and god-given right to keep and bear arms” abridged, violated, destroyed, stepped-upon and otherwise trashed like you would not believe. But just keep preaching from your ivory tower. I’m sure that at least the air up there is nice.

      • If there are circumstances outside criminal behavior that justify abriding an individual’s natural human rights, then the discussion becomes one of preference instead of principle. The principles of liberty are not subject to the whims of preference.

  10. I was laid up with cat scratch fever last year and they put me on a drip over night with antibiotics. There was no room in the hospital so they put me in the Oncology ward for a night. My roomate was some old guy with a big, well to do family. His daughter and her husband and their two daughters came to visit the first full day I was in there.

    The husband just immediately started ranting about handguns and how nobody, anywhere should have handguns. They should be banned and confiscated by force, according to him. This was a mid 30s man with two beautiful daughters who was clearly a “pillar of the community” in one way or another and he was just angrily ranting about this to his family… I think I was the only person in the room who was really listening to what he said and he didn’t know I was awake.

    Anyway, it was disturbing. But I guess that is the nature of hearing people say things they would not normally say in front of strangers. These were clearly professional, church going people. Both the father and mother were wearing nice business attire, their daughters rode horses and were extremely polite… and they want me and my kind to be assaulted and robbed by the police. Good to know, right? Trust no one.

  11. I live in Cook County,Illinois. Nothing suspicious about anything written. The FOID is a load of crap foisted on us by leftwing commie Cook County Dumbocrats. Many years ago I worked in a mental health
    facility. And the nurses did everything they could to make to make their job easier including gross overmedication. And there’s NO solution other than being a good,compliant patient.

  12. +1 Curtis. And Lake co Indiana doesn’t count. Everyone & their dog legally carrying. No FOID. $120 lifetime carry,no training, basically paradise a mile from my house. I might be off a bit on the actual numbers but not by much.

  13. While this is a danger, it should be understood that if they did report someone as mentally unstable, and they did have their FOID card taken away on that basis alone, that nurse could, and very likely would, lose their license to practice. It would be considered fraudulent, and such serious misconduct with relation to patient care would earn you a revoked license in any state I’ve lived in. More to the point, a single nurse reporting mental illness isn’t going to fly, because as soon as the shift changes another nurse is going to come in, won’t see any evidence of mental illness, which will raise red flags. Long story short, this idiot can run her mouth all she wants, if she actually were to follow through with it, she wouldn’t have a job for much longer.

    • I was waiting for someone to address the practical matters at play here. Last I checked nurses don’t diagnose psychiatric problems. I don’t know what sort of nonsense the FOID card entails but I’d imagine that it takes more than someone’s flippant observation to revoke. It’s one thing for a harried, ethically challenged nurse to make an accusation and quite another to follow it with convincing a doctor to actually diagnose the patient as being mentally ill.

      Most people have a difficult time faking psychiatric illness when trying. . . you’d almost certainly have to be mentally ill to accidentally fail a psychiatric evaluation. Here, by ‘mentally ill’ I mean one mad bugger because they aren’t looking for personal foibles that are often called by clinical terms in the vernacular, but real, serious mental health problems: Major depression, suicidal or homicidal ideations, indications of psychosis and the like. One who is interested can usually pass a psych eval even when fairly ill by simply concealing the most profound symptoms. Those who fail when trying to pass are generally very mentally ill indeed.

      Brief conclusion: The threat overheard by the OP is completely empty.

  14. Used to be a deputy , but also worked as armed security at the local medical center , you would not believe how many nurses there are that should not be in the job , they go to school get the degree then get the “better than anybody else attitude ” , I always thought that they were there to help people not sit on their buts and complain about the folks in their care that also pay their salary . Be prepared and ready . Keep your powder dry.

  16. I just had the “don’t talk to the doctor about guns” conversation with my wife the other night. Apparently her OB-GYN asked about it at some point during her pregnancy. I told her that from now on, the answer is always “none of your damn business”.

    Think of it this way – there is absolutely no benefit you gain from talking to the doctor about your guns, only the opportunity for a loss.

    • And with the laws as they are now, it’s getting close to the point where it’s not a good idea to tell your doctor anything at all. They have become stooges for the government. Everything you tell them can be put in a computer data base and is accessible to anyone with a subpoena, let alone the IRS.

      You no longer have a personal relationship with your doctor.

      • And isn’t THAT just a sad state of affairs? I’ve never been much of a check-up kind of guy – it must be six years since I’ve seen a doctor, now that I think about it – but I always assumed that if I had something going on, I could always turn to a physician in relative confidence. Guess I better start eating better.

    • Rather than “none of your ___ business”, I’d suggest saying “No.”

      Yep, lie.

      None of their damn business, and a confronting answer is as good as a yes.

      From a health care provider that NEVER asks.

  17. All mental health diagnosis amount to just somebodies opinion. As a career RN I feel I must apologize for the deeply unprofessional attitude shown in the above anecdote. The primary role of the nurse is to be the patients advocate. I’m hoping the person quoted wasn’t really a LPN or RN, but instead some other position. The attitude of reporting a patient because they inconvenience you reflects more on the nurse than the patient.

    • +1 on that from another nurse. An Illinois nurse, who knows more about that little bit that got sneaked into our brand-new CCW law. Google Illinois FOID Mental Health Reporting System.

  18. “…I’ll report them as mentally unstable and they’ll get their FOID card taken away”

    People don’t talk like that. I call bullshit, anonymous ambulance driver.

    • Do you know what “paraphrase” means, as in, “One nurse chimed in with this little tidbit (I’m paraphrasing)”?

    • Try meeting people in government or any pseudo quasi state agency and you’ll see that they do indeed talk like that. And they don’t worry one bit about getting in trouble over it.

  19. The exploitation of situational power by “little” people is a fairly common part of the human experience. School administrators do it. Cops do it. The people at your local motor vehicle department do it. Petty bureaucrats all over the world do it. I guess that some nurses just want to get in on the fun.

  22. Idk if it’s like this anywhere else, but in Ohio, this only applies if a Judge rules you mentally incompetent or you are involuntarily sent to a mental institution by a court. I find this scenario of the nurses hard to follow through if you get your say in a court…with a lawyer…that we should all have on hand anyway if we carry.

    • I like my primary pistol on my belt at about 4:00 and my back up on my ankle. I carry my lawyer in a shoulder holster.

  23. Leave IL ASAP! I spent the first 21 years of my life there but left nearly 22 years ago and haven’t regretted it since.

  24. FOID cards are the state’s way of Dad letting you have the car keys or stay over your friends house. As long as you make your grades, mow the lawn and take out the trash.
    Speaking of taking out the trash, nothing will change in IL until politicians start losing their jobs. You don’t need certified conservatives, meek liberals who are busy taking from the productive and giving to the non productive will do as long as they don’t mess with 2A rights.

    The fiscal situation in IL will neuter the liberal spenders soon enough.

  25. I work in a hospital in the South. Many nurses own guns and have carry permits. The Hospital is a No gun zone though.

  26. My question – as someone with 30+ years experience in the health care business – is if this was one of the good ones ranting or one of the bad ones. When you are away from the patients on a bad day, the layman wouldn’t believe some of what is said by way of a vent just to let off the steam to do the job right.

    On the other hand, if this really was one of the people who have no business being around patients, first she needs to realize that an RN has to meet some pretty specific criteria to be able to file such a report. And if she does it fraudulently, there will be a lien on her license while she’s investigated for ethical malpractice. When found guilty she’ll lose that license. And then there’s the lawsuits… Her career and life are pretty much over.

    More typical of Southern Illinois was my doctor visit yesterday. In talking about Antonio my doc noted she hadn’t shot since involved with her son in Scouts and that to shoot well, “You really have to have your ‘Zen’ on.”

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