Strange to say, but we still don’t have the details of the shooting in Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada. Was he just walking around town dressed as Rambo? Was he hunting cops? Did the RCMP come to take his guns? Meanwhile, chron.com reports that “Canadian police commandeered armored trucks and told residents to stay indoors Thursday while they hunted for a man suspected of killing three officers in the normally tranquil east coast city of Moncton. Heavily armed Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers combed streets and woods in search of 24-year-old Justin Bourque, who was wearing military camouflage and carrying two rifles in a picture released by police on Twitter. Schools and government offices were closed, and the city pulled its buses off the roads. Mail delivery was suspended.” Cower in place. That’s what happens to a disarmed populace when a killer is “on the loose.”
We will never know the true story on this one. The cops pointing guns while they’re still searching for the man is concerning as well.. They will murder this kid. Anyone recall the last covered cop killed in the USA? I believe they shot 300+ bullets into a motionless car with no one armed inside. I don’t believe in murdering anyone in any career path, but the militarized police should be concerning these moms against guns crazies. Sadly it doesn’t advance their agenda.
It’s remarkable how a relatively insignificant action by a lone actor can effectively pause the lives and economy of such a large area.
It doesnt even have to be a violent action as it is here. A stupid advertisement with Christmas lights shut down Boston in 2007. I personally witnessed a pile of spilled flour shut down New Haven.
If ‘terrorists’ wanted an easy target all they have to do is leave a couple of Spider-man bookbags lying around NYC and the residents and cops would eat each other alive.
Which is why insurgency lasts as long as they do.
Uh…Canadian per capita gun ownership is higher than it is in the US. They’re not a “disarmed” populace. It’s just more of a pain in the ass to get a gun or to carry it.
That’s not true at all. The US ranks #1 for guns per capita. Canada is 12th or 13th, below France.
Exactly. Not sure where these bogus stats for Canada come from but they aren’t higher than the US, nor do they have the right to bear arms and they’ve had to deal with confiscations via registrations already. And now a crazed gunmen running roughshod violating all those laws Canada thinks will prevent such acts. Laws are RARELY a deterrent and those who say the only reason they don’t do morally depraved acts like steal, rape and murder simply because they are illegal is a scary, dangerous person that should be avoided at all costs.
Canada: high estimate of 37.2 guns per 100 people
USA: low estimate of 88.8 guns per 100 people (high of 95.3)
(and yes, Canada was 13th, right behind France)
Though to be fair, since the advent of the Lon Gun Registry, REPORTED ownership has likely gone down quite a bit as a percentage of TOTAL ownership. Even with the repeal of Registry (pisols and “Restricted” semi-auto weapons like AKs and ARs are still required to be registered), Canadians are a lot more wary.
Canada is also even more urban than the US, and sine “urban” guns like pistols are tough to own and impossible to carry (legally), Canadian gun demographics skew much more heavily in favor of Fud Guns.
Agreed. However, the data is from 2007 – before the registry’s demise. Also, the rates I quoted are based on the study’s “high end” estimates for Canadian firearm ownership (12,000,000) instead of the “low estimate” (7,900,000). The 4.1 million difference is due to low/high estimates of unregistered firearms.
Hmmm. I misread your comment. You said “advent”, not “end”. I was thinking you meant that Canadians got a lot more wary of reporting what they owned after they were no longer required to, when it looks like you meant they got wary when the law went into effect.
Wait… are you saying people, even Canadians, ignore firearms registration requirements? No way! (/sarc)
Canadians have guns though, or so I’ve read. They’re more restricted than us and I don’t think they get the “cool” stuff like ARs and AKs like we have, but I don’t think they’re completely unarmed like our Australian and British friends.
Carrying for self-defence
The Criminal Code recognizes self-defence with a firearm. The Firearms Act provides a legal framework wherein an individual may acquire, possess and carry a restricted or (a specific class of) prohibited firearm for protection from other individuals when police protection is deemed insufficient. This situation is extremely rare: the (publicly available version of the) RCMP authorization to carry application refers only to protection of life during employment that involves handling of valuable goods or dangerous wildlife.
Canada has had the Tavor for about a decade. And they get the cheap but fun NORINCO stuff that’s banned in the USA ($500 M-14 knockoffs, $120 SKS). But only 5 round mags for rifles (10 for pistols), no baby pistols (min. barrel length) and a ton of other restrictions.
Registering weapons should have stopped this.
You’d like to think that, wouldn’t you?
I think he forgot his /sarc tag.
You’re certainly some kinda’ special, ain’t’cha?
Since the details are unclear, and we do not know the area or the whole situation, at this point in time, I do not see the issue here.
“…the details are unclear, and we do not know the area or the whole situation, at this point in time”
That’s the issue. It’s been nearly a day now. For all we know this could be a North Korean invasion of Canada.
From the video link: “…one witness heard a burst of automatic gun fire…”
Makes you wonder, right? The shooter must have seen Jerry Miculek’s videos or (more probably) it’s just another silly media exaggeration.
If you can’t hear “ready, aim, fire!” between every shot than it’s full auto 😉
Or if it’s more than 10 rounds in a minute — just ask Shannon…
You beat me to it. Up here the ignorance about firearms by the general public is laughable.
Canada has most of the gun grabbers wet dream laws. They of course will fail just like any law. Then the law abiding citizens get neutered weapons in exchange for those laws. Weapons that would be ideal for a situation like this. When this nut job comes to your house as a new hide, what do you do? Die in place.
No, that title goes to the UK. At least Canada can import QBZ 97s and Vz 58s.
I’ve read he had a bow on him too. Canadian Rambo.
How exactly would registration have stopped this? It doesn’t stop this guy from deciding to perform criminal acts. It doesn’t stop him from using unregistered illegal guns. It doesn’t stop him from using his legal registered guns. All it allows for is the government to know who has what, and seeing as you aren’t a criminal until you are, and doesn’t allow the government to magically see into the future and see who will use their registered guns illegally. All it allows governments to do is round up those guns they then deem inappropriate for their subjects to own.
My home state of NJ has had what is basically handgun registration for like 20 years now. It hasn’t done much to stop the gang bangers in Camden, Newark, and Asbury Park.
I’m pretty sure Will was being sarcastic
That never hit me. Also, I was on mobile earlier so I couldn’t reply directly. Pardon my stupid.
“Also, I was on mobile earlier so I couldn’t reply directly”
If your mobile device’s browser has a “desktop view” feature (e.g. like my Galaxy 4 default browser has), you can get around TTAG’s mobile version reply problem.
This Is What Happens to a Disarmed Populace??
Does this imply that the US has got it right!!!!!!?????
Hahaha OMG, you know that the rest of the world thinks that you couldn’t have it more wrong?
I’m certain that most of the world thinks that responding to violence with violence is wrong. Oh so wrong: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/05/robert-farago/nigerian-vigilantes-kill-islamic-militants-guns/
You mean the rest of the world that ALSO relies on our big scary guns to secure their freedom? I’m sure you’re totes awarez that we rightfully look down upon every one of you in the same condescending way lolz #’murca.
You must not be from around here.
That headline on TTAG appears whenever a situation occurs where the access of the general population to firearms would have been a benefit. Both in the US and out.
And in regards to your opinion of how the rest of the world views the U.S. in regards to private gun ownership, I commend you. You must have spent a lot of time and money on long distance calls polling the entire globe.
Seriously, I couldn’t care less about how the world views it, even if your comments did have a shred of credence. I will take the option to protect myself and my family with firearms in every single scenario over “sheltering in place” and hoping for the best without a means of self defense. You attack guns? What do you do if this guy is in your backyard? You call the police, i.e. somebody with a gun. So it appears to me that you then either lack the confidence in yourself to be able to utilize a firearm correctly, or wish to wash your hands of the ability to protect yourself and your family and wish to leave that responsibility to others.
I find that unacceptable. Most of America finds that unacceptable. Guns are a part of our heritage, as is self defense. I can see how this might be tough for you to understand, but if you can wrap your mind around it, it may make you rethink your stance.
The point that I’m getting at is the fact that you feel that you need a weapon to protect your family in a developed country in the first place. The day I feel that way is the day I find myself a new place to live. I can see the argument that if a guy comes to your house with a gun that by possessing your own you can protect your family. The problem lies in the fact that the guy has the gun in the first place. A certain amount of any population will at some point in their life have mental illness, depression, whatever and the fact that everyone has access to a weapon means an increased likelihood that the weapon will be used.
Why are you reading TTAG then? Everyone posting here has already decided where they stand on firearms freedoms. We accept responsibility for the protection of ourselves and our loved ones. I have a very low opinion of anyone who would rather leave that up to someone a phone call away.
Yeah? So what? The USA has been different, and hated by the rest of the world since 1775. Always have. Because we don’t play by everyone else rules. You gotta problem with that just learn to suck it up because it hasn’t changed, and its not going to change. You think the rest of the world can make us change? then go ahead, make my day.
My comment wasn’t an attack on America. I was referring to the right to bear arms. Its out of date.
“then go ahead, make my day”……..Clint Eastwood?
Who cares what the rest of the world thinks!
What the rest of the world “thinks” — and I say “think” because “know” is completely out of the question to begin with — is irrelevant. What matters is that we’ve been going in exactly the right direction (read: opposite) relative to the rest of the world.
Put simply, we’re right and you’re wrong. End of.
Obvious troll is obvious.
I’m very familiar with the area. Lots of terrain he could be hiding out in.
I’m also curious about the details. How this guy took down five armed mounties kind of staggers my imagination. Were they under-gunned? unprepared? Ambush? What?
Also, as others have pointed out, our Northern brothers are not completely disarmed. A buddy of mine is currently trapped in his house, a mile from the shooting spot, with a few rifles and shotguns scattered throughout the house (and at least one, presumably, on his person).
Just another idiot, mentally unbalanced who hates police. Armed himself with a shotgun and an M1A, planned a confrontation with police.
Yes we have more restrictive gun laws in Canada, but we have recently removed some of it as registration does not promote safety… the gungrabbers fallacy. Canadian liberals have been trying to disarm us for years, trying to make us dependent on the state for protection. Same thing they are trying to do in the US. Keep pushing back, we are doing the same.
BTW, we do get “cool” stuff up here like Ar-15’s (I have 5)
Cower in place? What am I supposed to do when a killer with rifles is moving though my neighborhood? Sitting at home with my long guns at the ready seems pretty reasonable.
I was going to reply with basically the same thing. “Shelter in place” is pretty good advice if there’s a killer roaming the streets, pursued by dozens of amped-up, jumpy police officers.
Lock down your home and keep your head down. Ideally, you’ll be armed, but there aren’t a lot of other options in this scenario, whether you’re a “disarmed populace” or not.
When a lone gunman can shut down an entire city — not a neighborhood, a city — I think the phrase “cower in place” is completely apt.
Maybe the cops shot his dog.
It’s terrible but for whatever reason I had to laugh.
We are far from being a disarmed populace, however using our firearms for anything but target shooting/hunting will result in criminal charges. If you use a firearm for self defense, you will be charged even if it is deemed justifiable. The simple fact that you could access your firearm in time to protect yourself clearly indicates that you were in violation of Canada’s “safe storage” provisions. You will then be faced with the decision to go to court, where the onus will be on you to prove that the firearms were stored properly, or accept a plea bargain that usually involves confiscation of all firearms, a 10 year (or lifetime) ban on ownership, and of course a gag order. The deck is stacked against us, all because of a knee jerk reaction to a mass shooting in the early 90’s that left us with some of the most convoluted and confusing firearm regulations you could imagine, none of which would have stopped this incident. Sound familiar? Stay strong America, if you go down we all go down.
“Stay strong [United States of] America, if you go down we all go down.”
Perhaps some of the fine people of Canada can start accompanying us at rallies at border states … the more faces, the better. And, having spent an afternoon at a rally fully of armed people carrying concealed and openly in public — just because we can — imagine how energized those participants will be when they return to Canada?
That is the real impediment to armed self defense. If people can’t use them for defensive purposes then it reduces interest. That is a major reason that the US antis oppose stand your ground. It significantly reduces the utility of firearms. In the US the anties want to empower the criminal class. I suspect the Canadian government doesn’t have that objective.
What is your take on how the Harper government will respond to this?
We have pretty good self defense laws so you won’t face murder charges in a justifiable shoot, but the Firearms Act was written by rabid antis and contains numerous catch all provisions that pretty much guarantee any DGU will end in criminal charges. Even our current Conservative gov’t brought about mandatory minimums for firearms offences. If I were to flout the law and carry one of my pistols for self defense, I would receive 3 yrs min in a federal prison. If I could I’d never be unarmed, but the price is too high if I get caught.
There have been rumors being whispered around the gun websites and ranges that the government was getting ready to relax some of the firearms laws in the near future, but with an election coming in 2015 I doubt they will try that after this. No doubt the antis are in their war rooms now preparing to seize the day while emotions run high. I’m afraid that there will be a huge push for more regulations like after the Newtown shootings in the US, only I don’t think Canada has the support to stop them.
I checked NBC News, and aside from their reporter mistakes, photos front and rear do show that the suspect is armed with a tactical shotgun (with shell carrier) and what looks like an M1A Springfield with a detachable magazine, probably 10 rounder, and thus likely to be a .308. They showed a piece of a phone video with shots being heard– three shots about a second apart–that killed the officers at the scene.
I left Charlottetown via ferry this afternoon and have been following the story on CBC. They are much more professional and less sensational than the US press. They aren’t speculating on motives and their experts are stating that they are as in the dark as everyone else. If you want to really know what is happening go to the CBC website. One Shrink even said that the only time that he advised the police he was wrong. Also heard a security expert say that the laws were to lax. I wanted to scream at him that this a black swan and taking away Canadians’ gun right won’t stop the next one. You can hand out full auto M-4 on a Toronto street corner and the murder rate wouldn’t budge. Stuff happens so stop looking for an explanation when there is none.
As I said before., this is not our issue and has nothing to with our Second Amendment freedoms so let’s stop treating this incident like it happened in DeMoines
I just saw a report on the NBC news. Lots of fear and hand wringing in Canada. Look for more gun laws in the frozen north. It seems the Mounties were totally unprepared for someone actually shooting at them.
Of course if you’re a government official your concern might be that other gun owners would join the shooter in his cause…
“Cower in place. That’s what happens to a disarmed populace when a killer is “on the loose.”
Do you prefer every single gun owner go vigilante and roam the neighborhoods with their fingers on the trigger looking for the shooter? Yeah, that’ll end well.
We’re far from disarmed in our own homes. Anyone can buy an SBR AR with a background check. Get a 5 round 50 Beowulf mag and load up 15 rounds of 5.56. Problem solved.
…and he’s in custody.
I have to strongly disagree with equating “shelter in place” with “cower in place”. New Brunswick has one of the highest gun ownership rates in Canada, I would bet that many people had their firearms handy, albeit hunting rifles instead of ARs. I imagine that in the US the police might order a similar “shelter in place” in a similar situation. It is doubtful that they would encourage all nearby gun owners to get out and help. If I was in such a situation my priority would by protecting my family, by any means necessary, NOT trying to hunt down the suspect.
I live in Canada. I don’t own a gun and probably never will.
Incidents like this shooting and the one in Seattle are over analyzed. In these cases the person committing the crime always have the element of surprise. It does not matter if you were carrying or not, when you live in a peaceful society (and you do), then the instigator has the initial advantage.
Its a crowded, crowded world. There is always going to be people with the disposition to commit these types of acts . They will gain access to whatever method they can . Guns are common but we have stabbings (China) , explosives (Boston) and so on. It cannot be prevented . The element of surprise.
The vast majority of the population who own guns (both in Canada and the US) are responsible. They know how to maintain them safely and use them safely. The media will always latch onto the rare tragedy caused by improper handing or storage or use. But the majority , the vast majority, are properly educated and safe.
Guns don’t interest me enough to own one and I don’t have a need for one ( I know I will get an argument here). However I would have absolutely no issue if all my neighbors had guns (they probably do) and openly carried them (they don’t) . I would not feel less safe in my neighborhood, or city, or wherever I went. I do not believe that the family who lives beside me would start errantly shooting at the slightest provocation. We ( and when I say we I mean society) tend to focus too much on the anomalies and not on the norm. The norm is that owners will handle , use and store their guns safely and responsibly. We cannot now nor ever will be able to prevent the exceptions no matter the source or method. These exceptions should not skew our view of the majority and should not be awarded the attention they receive.
Yes, as a NBer and as a gun owner, I can confirm that there are whack ton of guns in NB. Pistols, rifles, Thompsons, MG42s, STG-44s, ARs, etc.. We are armed to the TEETH.
We are simply too scared to get into the legal mess of shooting someone no matter how justified we are in everyones eyes.
As for this scumbag, it was a setup/ambush. He was provoking a call or made it himself. The police were simply responding to a report of a man brandishing a rifle. They showed up and he gunned them down. The witnesses that were there reported that he told them to fuck off and get out of the way. He had no interest at all in civilians. He was after cops. One of which was married to a grad class member of mine so this touched me even from where I now live. I also have friends in the RCMP.
And you all DO need to worry about what happens here. Your leftists are using our healthcare system as an excuse for Obamacare (Which is NOTHING like what we have and at this point in your alls mess, you would be LUCKY to have our system instead of what you are now stuck in/with) so if the antis in the US wanted more help, it is too easy to point at Canada and say “SEE!!! They have all kinds of laws and even have rifle mag limits lower than New York and people are still dying!!!”.
So ya. Pray or do whatever your beliefs encourage you to do for us up here because if the antis get traction on this, we are screwed and soon you will be too. We have a federal election next year so things are going to get really interesting/messy.