Shannon, Shannon, Shannon. When you tell so many lies about guns and gun owners (90% want universal background checks!, ‘gun bullies’ intimidated us!) it gets hard to recognize the truth. But there’s no reason to tell a fib just because you’re embarrassed.
Our man Alan Brooks saw the Moms Demand Action doyenne leaving Saturday’s SXSW civilian disarmament seminar and asked if she had a second for a quick photo. Figuring everyone must be a devoted fan, she said, “Sure!”
After the pic, Alan then shook her hand and thanked her. And that’s the whole story behind the photo that’s provoking so much conversation (follow the subsequent tweet war here). And no small amount of creativity. Check this out . . .
ROFL
Wow… just wow.
I am actually surprised that who ever is running the social media campaigns for the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence would allow such a childish tit-for-tat to even happen. After reading the CSGV’s tweets all of our “gun-nut” paranoia is seemingly confirmed with such gems as this one:
CSGV @CSGV 2h
@sithschnauzer The police have a responsibility to protect the public. Gun nuts have “Stand Your Ground” laws. Big difference.
Its good to know that we’re all f*cking crazy, we’re going to shoot anything and everything that moves, and we are surely plotting against women, minorities, the state of Israel, the state of Palestine, people who walk on the correct side of the sidewalk, dogs, and trees.
Its these sort of histrionics that make the CSGV’s arguments fall flat on their face. Why would I take anything you say seriously if you cant have an adult discussion about what firearms mean to our country, and the individuals who make up said country?
It is hard to have an adult conversion on just about any topic with someone who disagrees with your viewpoint.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBvIweCIgwk
LOVE That movie! Sad to say some aspects of society are moving quickly towards the same as shown in it…
Oh the pathos! These ‘victimized moms’ are terrible with rhetoric. But that is a glorious picture, no doubt about it!
It’s not lying if they don’t ask (or in MDA’s case, if you actually believe what you are saying) And if he said that he was lawfully carrying before asking for that picture that tweet would read as the following: “Responsible gun owner from @guntruth threatens mom w/ loaded gun”
Not for nothing – but we all had to know this was going to blow up, right? And – even though it’s not biggie – it does kinda seem a little childish… doesn’t it? A little?
So far this tweet seems to win the childish award for the day “Shannon @shannonrwatts 4h
.@GunTruth came to #SXSW panel, lied & said he was “huge fan”, gets off on taking pic w/loaded gun. @CSGV #MomsDemand pic.twitter.com/QVh0yksvzT”
Seriously…. ugh
No. It’s funny. And the aftermath is pathetic…on their part.
What’s childish is all the name calling (misogynistic, women haters, etc) from JUST A PHOTO!
Come on. Alan did not hurt her in any way, shape or form. He asked to get a photo taken. Both parties are smiling.
And, he proved two very important points:
(1) Their fear of guns is completely irrational.
(2) They will lie and mischaracterize the facts of what happened to fit their narrative.
In this particular part of the culture war that Shannon Watts started with her idiotically named activist group, what Alan did was fight back.
And, he won. He’s showing them to be frightened little mice that cannot even stand to have their picture taken next to a (gasp!) man…who they only LATER learned was carrying a gun.
she’ll be limiting her contact w/the unwashed public to waving from her popemobile from now on to avoid this type of embarrassing incident 🙂
I would have let her COMmENT MODERATED me just to be sure I wasn’t packing
So wait, the way I read her bad grammar is that the mom was packing? English Shannon, there are rules to sentence structure. Perhaps you need a background check and license before using english?!
She was probably 3 glasses into that bottle of cheap California wine when she wrote. She has a face with alcoholic stuper written all over it.
“Responsible gun owner…”
Holy crap, we JUST WON.
I think that was her attempt at sarcasm, but I don’t see how anyone could think he acted irresponsibly. Then again she thinks all citizens with guns are bullies/stalkers/fetishists/misogynists/racists/mass-murders, so why do we take her seriously?
Could be, but sarcasm doesn’t come through in tweets. By pairing “responsible” and “gun owner” she negates her own argument.
The way her tweet was written, Shannon was packing. Did Alan feel threatened?
“Damn pigeons!”
Haha, what a PR FAIL! And no matter what she does to try and control the damage, the illusion has been shattered.
Newsflash, gun control proponents… the pro-2A community is filled with regular, sensible folks.
I love the collective bed-wetting from the supposed collegiate intelligentsia when campus carry is brought up. Those that preach the full support of the 1st amendment are so quick to trample the 2nd.
Okay, so Shannon is the PR “expert” hired to put the right face on the civilian disarmament movement. She is, we may assume, the best money could buy for this battle front.
And, she has been soundly beaten by a simple act of social politeness.
For all her cries of misogyny and women-hating in those tweet threads, and all the ire and anger…she sure does not look frightened in that photo.
She’s a PR phony and here’s the proof. SOME of her followers will see this. Here’s to hoping that every Google search for the mums hits on these ttag pages and reveals the truth of who they are.
MAIG tried to engineer a repeat of the MADD successes. And they have FAILED.
I look for SW to be replaced at Moms soon…by end of summer is my guess. Staples, Facebook, this…she’s just not doing the job.
Bought a 40sw sub2000 glock23 config last week. 450 after all expenses. Shot a few hundred rounds of pmc fmj and ppu hp with no hiccups at all yesterday. Sights were odd but I got used to them. Love the gun. Should’ve seen the look on the girl’s face in the booth next to me when I unfolded it for shooting lol priceless.
I didn’t really pay attention to the whole bloggers considered journalists thing, but assuming bloggers have the same protections as journalists, isn’t bringing up stalking irrelevant if said journalist is reporting on your event, whether you like them or not?
I’ve had 2 keltecs. A PF9 & a Sub2000. PF9 was the worst piece of junk I ever owned. Still wish I had the Sub2000. Sold it for a loss right before the bubble(arg). Serious QC issues…even worse than everyone’s favorite whipping boy Taurus.(I’ve had 4 with ZERO issues). I think Keltec could sell millions of guns a year IF they got their s##t together. I would buy a KSG, Sub2000,PMR,SU’s ,bullpup if I got a deal. But try finding one at your LGS.
This is awesome! Get video, next time, to help expose their lies.
ya, if a picture is worth a thousand words then a video is worth a million.
Why is the concern more about people “feeling safe” than it is about people actually being able to make themselves safe?
And if we’re going to make “feeling safe” the standard to base our laws on, then everyone had better get ready to give up a whole lot of rights.
So let’s not.
HAHAHA. Just check out the facebook pages. They are sure in a tizzy from all the embarrassment. I’d comment, but I’m saving my 5-seconds of fame (be fore being banned) for something more special.
I think it’s a nice picture!
https://www.facebook.com/CoalitiontoStopGunViolence
Your dimwits apparently are at war with the NRA and ALEC.
What is ALEC? I think I may need to join. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Now you’ll have to take the Sigfried Oath before you’re allowed to take a picture with her….
Typical that they would spin this in a negative manner. They’re probably busy deleting all the posts on their website/twitter/FB that support gunowners and expose MDAs closemindedness.
He lied?
Did she ask him, “Do you have a concealed handgun?”
And did he answer, “No.”
So what was the lie?
Did she mean to write, “Irresponsible”?
I am totally confused.
I’ve shot a few keltec handguns and honestly? I do not know why they’re so popular at all. Just flat not that great. Couple that with the quality control issues and I’m just at a loss.
Now this is just funny.
So. Much. Win!
I wanted to thank you guys for giving us the material for our most popular meme ever. As of right now it’s got 2650 likes, it’s been shared 2.255 times and 372,000 people have viewed it.
Hey, Asmo from Hypo! How’s it going buddy? Big fan.
He lied by saying “Hey can I take a picture with you?” /facepalm
In all seriousness, It seems like twitter is a lot of “Two kids arguing by trying to yell over eachother.”
That being said I did make an account for that damn walther 22 contest and I added ze guntruth anyway.
Winning
This, um, this may have partially been my fault.
https://twitter.com/Beard_Of_Asgard/status/442777210152583170
I may or may not have helped instigate too.
I think you have the wrong shannon watts in the twitter link – while she is attractive, that is not my internet boo!
it is “Shannon @shannonrwatts ”
gotta include the “r”
I am sure this Shannon is wondering what’s up with all of the gun dudes
Too funny. What a vapid, lame response from Watts et al. over a non-event.
Comment moderated.
Kel-Tec needs to take a break from releasing new designs. Their catalog is growing faster than their manufacturing capability.
Personally, while I think a lot of their designs are neat, their dubious QC keeps me away from buying anything they make.
With all her supposed marketing experience, you would think she would know when to shut up — her tweet will be an epic fail and only help reinforce gun owners resolve. Sometime it is better to shut up
Yep. These people are more often than not their own worst enemies. If the mainstream liberal press wasn’t always coming to their rescue and puffing up their cause, they’d be out’a here.
She’s worse than a half-wit; she’s a no-wit.
What she is doing and what we should all be jumping on, is exposing her own lies about her goals with the MDA.
So she’s out to take my rights away and she’s the victim? This woe-is-me victim charade is low.
She’s the self-proclaimed common-sense reasonable person, yet all of her ideas weaken the law abiding against criminals? The gall of these victim-card-playing know-nothings who wake up one day and think “I have a new idea to solve problem X!” and then proceed to push for the same incredibly stupid miss-the-mark policies that have failed X over and over again. I get it Shannon, you are passionate, but passion doesn’t make you knowledgeable on the issue and successfully leveraging your expertise to manipulate other know-nothings to get behind your “new ideas” doesn’t make them good ones. Truth isn’t democratic and can’t be established with a PR campaign.
If you want to reduce gun violence and have the moral and legal high ground then go out on the street and catch some violent criminals in the act and take their guns, because in a free country a person is not a criminal until they demonstrate themselves to be through their actions and the state proves it with evidence. If you want to take guns from the law abiding then be prepared to commit a humanitarian atrocity under the auspices of guilty-until-proven-innocent to do so, because that’s what you are going to have to do to us to get your way.
In the meantime go watch the movie Deacon’s for Defense, 2003, starring Forest Whitaker, and familiarize yourself with the far more subtle and local threat of tyranny that the 2A is there to allow us to defend against, and why even though there are many mechanisms for liberty the 2A is important too. If you don’t understand after that I suggest you go buy yourself a bow-tie.
-D
So has there been an increase in coexisting, compassionate, and tolerant lefties since Shannon decided to play the lied to victim card? Based on her tweet and the CSGV’s tweet, they are seeing red and not the most emotionally stable.
pwned…
Definition of irony: Hypothetically, If someone had shown up to that event and threatened anyone in that room, you can bet Alan would’ve stepped in to protect them.
In one of the twitter threads, one of Watts’ followers said “they don’t want {gun owner’s} protection.”
Not sure if that person would be singing that same tune in a real active shooter scenario, but it has been said…
I can tell you exactly why RF passed the buck back to you… it wasn’t that long ago he did a trigger comparison (crouched in his hallway at home?) between the Ruger SR45 and his daily carry gun (guess which one he picks) the Glock 30SF. In it he criticizes the Ruger for not having that “bump” just before the trigger releases. So what you were asking him to do is review your $45.00 upgrade to make his Glock feel more like a Ruger. O.o
That’s one theory.
Doesn’t *in loco parentis* apply to *minors*? And have not the vast majority of college students reached the age of majority?
Also, “College campuses … *should be*, wide-open environments encouraging interactions among students, faculty and staff”…BUT THEY ARE NOT.
They’ve taken to as hominem attacks now. Let it be known that Alan is a Marine and former LEO, now special ed teacher.
Which totally breaks down their crap even further.
“He’s a bad, bad man, woman hater and stalker!” Only…you are standing there SMILING next to him, obviously not threatened by his demeanor at all.
“Guns make you evil…you can’t help it!” Good thing that friendly looking, smiling gentleman in the photo was able to resist, then.
“Only cops and military should have guns!” Okay, Alan was a cop and military.
Alan…I repeat: You win. This was brilliant. You beat her at her own game.
I’m guessing Bloomberg is blowing a gasket today – not over the photo, but over SW’s total failure in handling it today.
She could have gone for the PR win (killed with kindness and maybe a bit of self deprecation) but instead opted for the defensive two-year-old approach. Not flattering at ALL.
Hers is a PR war, and she is losing …
Thanks for shedding some light in an objective manner.
I have had many Kel-Tec firearms, and have never had any trouble with any of them that wasn’t my fault. The only reason I ever sold them was to purchase similar other firearms that I perceived to be an upgrade from the KT. In reality, I have never realized any additional utility from the money I’ve spent letting KTs go to buy “nicer” firearms.
I have had probably 3 different P3AT pistols and never had one jam.
I had a SU16 that was an awesome little gun.
I also had 3 trouble-free PF9s.
The only problem I ever had with a KT was when I tried to run some gun show reloads through a PF9. I had a case head rupture and blow the extractor out. At first I thought it was the gun’s fault, so I started shooting the same ammo out of my M&P. Then a case head ruptured on the M&P too but didn’t damage it. Realizing I’d purchased bad ammo with some over-pressure charges, improperly sized cases, or some other flaw, I threw the rest of that junk away and called KT customer service. They had me ship the PF9 to them and 3 weeks later I received my repaired PF9, free of charge, which continued to function flawlessly.
So, having had zero problems with Kel-Tecs I’ve had, when people tell me of all the trouble they have with KT the first questions I ask them are “what are you feeding it?” and “how are you holding it?” That usually reveals the problem. However, I did meet a guy at the range one time who could not get his PF9 to work. He was using good ammo, and I couldn’t see anything obviously flawed when watching his form. Still, he kept getting FTEs. But then I shot his gun with the same ammo and it worked fine for me. After years of seeing people have problems with guns, and having a few of my own, I have started to theorize that some gun designs just don’t work in the hands of specific shooters, somehow due to the shape of the grip and the shape or mass of the shooter’s hands. For instance, I am the only person I know who absolutely cannot shoot the broad side of a barn with a M&P9c or Shield. Put that same gun in someone else’s hand and everything is fine. Sure there will be some production issues, and some designs are more robust than others, but I have yet to experience any design-inherent flaws with KT guns that would keep me from considering them for future purchases.
Those are just my experiences. I realize that they are statistically insignificant.
CSGV twitter is exploding with all of this “intimidation” and “gun fetishism” and “misogyny” stuff.
I hadn’t realized that their position is that gun owners are savage low-intelligence sub-humans who all have dangerous predilections toward violent outbursts with a measure of oversexualization. I’ve learned about this form of prejudiced code-language in an African American Studies course I took in college. I’m surprised the people at CSGV haven’t immediately noticed this serious problem in their ranks.
-D
Welcome to PURE Michigan! Love this state, yeah it’s cold but we’re proud gun owners and hunters. Come on up sometime! Carry on and Michigan Supports you. I guess you could say, we’re giving you a hand!
“weapons grade springs!” (on the packaging)
Well… I would hope so.
I waited almost 4 years for my PMR 30 and it was worth it. I paid under list and have fired more than 400 rounds with no problems. My PF 9 also is flawless, but not as much fun to shoot.
I’ll be waiting for a RMR 30 when they become available. If any of the negative posters can run a company better, do it. You know that the government is there to help you… RIGHT!
I’m guessing we need common sense camera control now?
How are we supposed to have civil discussion on the topic if they can’t even stand next to a legally-armed American citizen?
It makes sense she would be upset that we poked fun at her not knowing a gun (!) was so close to her, so she responded and then went through the standard procedure to make her the victim. If she wasn’t a victim that would mean she tolerates guns in at least one way and that would be a bad message to send to her followers. Complete intolerance of anything gun-related is the only response possible. Because of that, though, she may have been forced to respond in that way where she otherwise would not have cared.
It’s always sad to see the policy make a puppet of what used to be a person. Shannon is now under the control of the message of total gun intolerance. She has no freedom to think or act for herself now, she is MDA (a wholly-owned subsidy of Bloomberg Anti-RIghts Advocacy INC. Bloomberg: We Know Better).
“How are we supposed to have civil discussion on the topic if they can’t even stand next to a legally-armed American citizen? ”
Excellent point. +100.
Even more fail on SW’s part in how she has responded to this.
While I hate being sexist at all, perhaps getting a woman, or better yet a mom to get a pic with her next time would be a good idea? That would take away their only (fake) response, have a voice recorder as well to prove you didn’t lie. I imagine finding a woman ccw-er would probably make her melt down.
I’m 20 and to get a permit I have to be 21.
Can I get a copy of that picture? Poster size? I want it on my wall. I need it on my wall. And I’d love to have it autographed.
Is that partly a few got men quote ?
I laughed, I cried, I bought the entire series.
Oh the humanity!
Pretty funny stuff. I thought her misogyny accusation was a classy touch.
Let me translate her FemiNazi/Commie speak:
Misogyny: when men don’t white knight for her, or run like puppies to agree with every dumb thought that ejects itself from her mouth. An accusation of such is usually used by a feminist woman, who often likes to loudly proclaim that she doesn’t need a man, to get a man to do something she needs doing. Like agree with her, or punch other men who disagree with her. See psychological game called “Let’s you and him fight”
Creepy: when a man that she does not find attractive does something outrageous like deigns to exist in her general vicinity. Note for readers – when a man that a feminist does find attractive does that same something, it’s not considered creepy by her. Catch-all insult that immature and vapid women and girls use to insult men. Example: “Brian from chem class asked me for my phone number.” “Ewww…creepy.”
Fetishism – likely refers to the typical suburban housewife’s penchant for mommy-porn like “50 Shades”, et. al. I sense projection here.
Stalking: see creepy translation.
These moms suffer from boredom, and a condition called:
Solipsism
1.Philosophy. the theory that only the self exists, or can be proved to exist.
2.extreme preoccupation with and indulgence of one’s feelings, desires, etc.; egoistic self-absorption.
That is all.
I <3 you! Yes, exactly.
Now there are two of us who can explain it.
Hmm.. perhaps referring to the posting in which jack-booted thugs (ahh, finally got to say that) beat in the guys door, murder him and his family, and shoot the dog over a 30 round magazine?
Oh wait, that was fiction. And bad fiction at that.
Connecticut cop: “I will kick down doors to confiscate guns”
So full of win.
You should do what he suggested. The “drop it like it is hot” seems smart.
I think there is a fine, fine line. Opinions will vary, but I think the few posts theorizing what will happen when confiscation finally kicks off, while accurate, are probably across that line. The “Stand Strong Connecticut” posts, on the other hand, are firmly in the realm of civil disobedience the writer suggests.
Well written. No one wants bloodshed.
I think that dialing it bach a notch might be a good idea. I like this poster’s idea of non-violent protest and would prefer that to kick in the door raids that will most likely be coming. If I lived alone, my reaction to a kick in the door event would be very different than what I would do to prevent my family being harmed. The Mrs. is rather precious to me, and I would never knowingly do something that puts her life in danger.
Both approaches have their merit. And I, like many here at TTAG, am a 2nd amendment absolutist, but if history teaches any lesson, its that its better to make friends than enemies when the choice is gself defenseThe protest suggested by the reader is exactly how to make friends with the fence-sitters whose votes are crucial to our cause especially in states like CT. However the presence of arms in private hands must be clearly shown to have consequences for those who attempt to enforce unjust laws.
I wonder if Shannon likes fireworks? In my experience, people who like fireworks also like shooting. I like the concussion of mortars and watching big colorful star bursts. Shooting is simular, especially if shooting water filled bottles, balloons, cans, and targets other than boring paper. I enjoy introducing kids and moms to shooting. I love history and discussing how the antique/service rifles I allow they to try helped to shape events (Muzzleloader/1861 Colt repro/SMLE/Garand/Mosin/1919a4/1911a1). BTW: paper can be fun for kids. Draw a tick-tac-toe board and see who wins with 1 person shooting .50 cal muzzle loader and 1 doing .22 or .30; draw a mouthless face and see if shooter can add a smile; try to use their ideas. I wonded if Shannon would thank me for giving her the experience and say something like what I often hear after intoducing others to shooting: “that was so much fun!” If so, we could explore why sailing in light winds and fishing without catching anything can still be awesome. However, I doubt you can convert a motorboat person into a sailer. It is probably intrinsic, like being a morning person or not.
The important thing is to get the guys who voted for this law out of office. We have a election in November. Support those who would vote for repeal. I am not talking about just voting. Contribute money and volunteer time. My prediction is you aren’t going to see anything resembling raids until after the election.
Everyone is afraid of a popular backlash if some gun-grabbing cops get their just desserts in some early morning raid. But remember the popular sentiment in favor of Chris Dorner? And he stupidly killed innocent relatives of the cops he was targeting. I think there’s a lot of people out there who see the burgeoning police state we now live in and have no idea how to stop it… but it seems like they would be on the side of anyone who opposes the ever-growing tyrrany.
Popular sentiment in favor or Dorner? I think it was more sympathy for the 2 ladies getting shot up in their truck.
Just for the sake of argument let’s suppose Dorner was the focal point of popular sentiment. What came of it? LAPD wasn’t disbanded. Dorner’s still dead. Try shooting up the cops and their families like he did andyou’ll meet just the same fate as him.
Popular sentiment doesn’t go far. More people were probably interested in the latest reality tv show than the Dorner show.
Fortuna audaces iuua, Fortune favors the bold. A man has to make a stand, and if he can’t make a stand when the Grenadiers are crashing down his door and threatening his home and family, then I don’t think there is an acceptable justification to stand up to tyranny.
Spot on! That’s where the rubber meets the road.
Finally a really good article and post about this, all this talk of revolt is silly.
Those of us who really want to fix this problem are either donating money to the CCDL/NRA lawsuit or working with the Republican Party to VOTE the problem away.
Instead of all this pointless flame fanning TTAG should be pointing out useful ways to actually solve this problem. But that doesn’t create sensationalist reading now does it?
Gov Malloy was in my city last week and a lot of very good questions were fielded about these laws, gun owners are not going away!
We need good and consistent PR to convince people to VOTE properly at the next election so we can get this law repealed.
It’s not one or the other time just yet.
Those guys at Concord Bridge really did get a little to excided didn’t they? A little “nonviolent protest”, singing kumbaya and all would have been roses. MLK/Gandai are for sheep not free men.
Just keep pounding! They need to feel the heat. They stepped in it and they need to know before it spins out of control. When they start door to door all bets are off. It will light a fire that will spread across the nation.
Thanks to social media we have seen enough videos of cops acting poorly. I don’t think the majority are bad. But they need to be on the side of freedom.
All they need to do is repeal. No retreat from gun owners!
Make civil disobedience plan A, and if that works great! If not, there’s always that plan B….
They’re both tools in the toolbox, so why can’t gun owners take both approaches?
But like losing your virginity, there’s going to be some crying. 🙂
Sounds good on a competition gun, but the reason I got rid of my Glocks was that their triggers suck, and I didn’t want to explain trigger modifications to a jury.
Sabers are so 19th Century (to paraphrase John Fing Kerry). And very difficult to affix to a rifle. Better we go with bayonet rattling.
“Stalking”?! Pretty strong words there, CSGV. Please, take your ‘evidence’ to the police. I’d love to watch them try to file a false police report.
I replaced my Glock’s trigger group. It is still a Glock. It is what it is. Want a trigger thats breaks like glass? Get a 1911.
The non-registration of firearms was civil disobedience. Demonstrators will be labeled as extremest gun nuts. In my opinion the proper thing to do is wait for the legislature and law enforcement to make a move. Hopefully they will hold off until the courts find the laws unconstitutional.
Sir;
‘…America’s oldest civil rights organization…’ is actually the New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, second globally only to the British Rifle Association. The NRA was founded by the same people who started the NYSR&PA; we were started much for the same reason the NRA was started.
Thanks for the good work you do and for fighting the good fight.
Respectfully;
John
Central Region Director, NYSR&PA
I like this guys idea. That could work and I am sure Sipsey Street would back it.
Ruby Ridge and Waco were government fiasco’s brought about by ATF arrogance. Ruby Ridge was a viet nam vet in a survival community selling s shot gun that was not long enough and Waco was a cult following of David Koresh in Texas. I think that was for the children, if I remember correctly.
The Government seems to become a little more controlling when the Dem’s have the reins, but the Rep have not covered themselves in glory on this of late.
It has all been down hill since Ronny got the Commies to fold their tent.
I had one in my hands this Saturday, bought a scar17 instead
Use this link and I’ll split my profits when I sell it!
http://ptab.it/2AZXG
C’mon, PC police on TTAG? I agree with the poster’s idea. In the same time I disagree that TTAG crossed the line. Call it as it is. All points of view should be welcomed.
“As an added bonus when the police advance everyone drops their mags.”
… and they arrest everybody for littering.
Awesome! Another gun contest we’re going to get spammed to death by! And it’s Krap-Tec to boot!
Holy cow, guys. You hate the KSG, don’t enter! Free country and all.
Just because you don’t want a KSG doesn’t mean I don’t…
In loco parentis? 18 year olds act like children because society treats them like children. I was in the military at 17, and i had adult expectations placed on me.
Whatever the reality of or reason(s) behind this company’s performance and public perception, all of these problems could have and should have been resolved long ago while working within the relevant constraints and decision criteria.
By their own admission, their barrels are only good up to 6K rounds. That’s ridiculously amateurish and low rent right there and calls into question any of the high principled explanations put forth in this apologist piece.
As someone who makes these types of business decisions himself, as well as professionally advising others in making theirs for their businesses, that this condition has lingered this long speaks volumes about the owners. I see successful businesses every day, which have long since outgrown the once-sufficient capabilities of their founding entrepreneurs, succumb to that crushing narcissism compelling them to hold on when they should turn the business over to professional business executives. The backside of the success curve gets real ugly real fast and can plunge formerly wonderful companies into tailspins and crashes if the founders don’t wake up, set aside their egos and step aside.
Best of luck to you, Kel-Tec.
Look I only own a single Kel-Tec firearm and I’m no fanboy or anything. I posted this piece because I thought KT could address supply/demand issues in a meaningful fashion and, while I expected comments around quality control issues, I did not plan to actually respond to any of them as it’s outside of the scope of this blog post. But, I’m going to briefly give my $0.02 (maybe 1 cent) on the following:
“By their own admission, their barrels are only good up to 6K rounds. That’s ridiculously amateurish and low rent…”
Their FAQ says the expected lifetime of their firearms is 6,000 rounds or more. Not “up to” and not barrel-specific. But, by way of comparison, our own military expects a 6,000-round life for M4 barrels. That said, it’s my personal opinion that the price is commensurate with this sort of expected life and that the expected life is commensurate with the intended usage. If you want a compact 9mm that is designed to fly on past 6,000 rounds you can get one. It probably won’t run you $269 like a PF-9 will. I wouldn’t buy most of their models for heavy duty range or competition use and they aren’t designed for that. This blurb in the FAQ was up when all they were selling was the super sub-compact pocket pistols and I’d honestly be shocked to hear if any end user has ever even approached that sort of round count from a PF-9, P-11, P-32, or P-3AT. I have no clue how it may or may not apply to the newer guns like PMR-30, KSG, or the Sub2000.
Forgot to mention, good trigger discapline. Keep up the good habits, ladies.
“Our dad made us do this.”
I have consistent jamming issues and sent it back for the second time . I requested my money back I have no confinence in the nano for ccw at all. They refuse to give me my money back and want to keep try n to repair it . Not cool beretta
Jamming issues
Click here to enter from your laptop or here from your mobile device,
So I can’t enter from my desktop? SHENANIGANS!
OMG! Kids! With Guns! OMG!
(stealing the normal TTAG title for pictures like this 😀 )
I live in Virginia but work in DC. I don’t carry because I do not want a gun in my car in case if I am pulled over by the overzealous DCPD and I cannot legally carry in DC. I would be carrying for the 1st third of my drive to work and the last third of my drive from work.
Don’t you just love it when those stupid gun grabbers get punked and don’t even realize it? She probably would have FAINTED had she known he was carrying.
What is going on in Connecticut is big if the left wins in Connecticut thay will do ti in every state in the U.S. that is why we must stand with Connecticut. But I do think that the writer of that email have an goog idea TTAG needs to help the Connecticut gun owners organize Daye for Peaceful Civil Disobedience Protests. And let’s be careful not to start nothing prematurely
When asked why the need for a high capacity magazine the correct answer is “Why do you have more than one square of toilet paper? Sh*t happens”
The SCOTUS did not rule in Heller on what level of scrutiny should be applied to the Second Amendment orther than categorically rejecting the “rational basis” test. What it did do was apply intermediate scrutiny to the specific law that was in question.
Part of Due Process incorporation is applying levels of scrutiny specific to the matter at hand rather than categorically.
McDonald (which is the case that sets the precedent incorporating the Second Amendment against the states) applied intermediate scrutiny.
Volokh is applying the same standard that the courts have been applying.
Volokh applied the correct test but did so erroneously. Among other flaws, he completely ignored the most important part of the right’s basis, the ability to fend off tyranny locally. Good luck with that 10-round magazine when every podunk PD in rural Hicksville County is packing 30-round magazines.
Eugene has a large blind-spot when it comes to the ‘tyranny’ argument, and no practical understanding of the self-defense realities. Fighting off two armed attackers requires (by FBI stats for ‘all major calibers’ and its own agent performance) 5 rounds that hit and 6 rounds that miss. In other words, even a fairly common level of criminal aggression will leave the defender with an empty magazine disastrously.
I have no idea why EV went off the rails on this. I hope it does not involve ambition to become a key part of the new Washington Post under Jeff Bezos’ ownership.
You and Mike are BOTH wrong. Heller did NOT say what level of scrutiny applied–it held that the ban on possession of firearms inside the home failed no matter what level of scrutiny was applied, and left it at that. It did NOT apply strict scrutiny, and certainly did NOT say that strict scrutiny applies to any an all invasions on the right to keep and bear arms–as demonstrated by every single case decided by every single federal court of appeals that has addressed this issue since, all of which have (purportedly) applied various iterations of intermediate scrutiny to issues of the right to bear arms outside the home. Heller implied (but certainly did not hold) that limitations on the right to bear arms outside the home, for example in schools and courts, or by felons and the mentally unfit, would pass constitutional scrutiny, which in turns implies (but does not hold) that something less than strict scrutiny applies outside the home. This is just another way of saying that time, place and manner restrictions on the exercise of the Second Amendment are just as valid as similar restrictions on the exercise of the First Amendment, which latter restrictions are well-recognized if unevenly applied. Such restrictions have historically been subjected to a more deferential intermediate scrutiny analysis–which is where Volokh comes out, concluding that capacity restrictions will probably meet this standard.
while I agree that capacity restrictions are innately arbitrary, I would bet that these restrictions will be upheld by any federal circuit court that addresses them.
” Keep and Bear Arms” Means those arms, used for offense and defense, and the ammunition used for those arms, in such quantity as to be effective for the stated purpose.
“Shall not be Infringed” Means the government has no authority to interfere with that right and any and all laws contrary to that right are Unconstitutional.
I screwed the pooch. Couldn’t help myself, The twitter comments posted above were to much, so I went and had a looksee. Oh. My. God. And then my fingers began typing a little note to them apparently attempting to add some context to their safe, no guns ever needed world. Sorry guys.
The problem with the issue is articulating a practical need to the opposition for the use of 10+ round mags.
Exemptions for the police are easily justified:they have to arrest people for a living,some of whom will violently resist.
The Average Joe walking down MLK drive does not. If he meets a bad guy,it’ll be because said thug thinks he has the upper hand of force. Once Joes gat comes out, thug is outta there. Magazine capacity would then seem to be irrelevant: bad guys hardly look at a pistol and say ” phht,he’s got a single stack. I’ll rob him anyways”
So, we can’t use need as a basis. What we have to do is categorize 10+ round mags as what they are- a convenient tool for civil gun owners.No different then an extended fuel tank for a car.
Well, except for the times when your “average” example…. isn’t.
http://www.gunssavelives.net
I like that this photo looks a lot more natural than the one the other day with the kids on the couch with dads AR and 1911. You can that tell these kids actually shoot these guns.
LE or civilian, Ill take a good guy with a gun over a bad guy with a gun anyday. 99% of the time the perps are cowards and wont engage in a fire fight when met force on force. Ill take my chances on a mishap from either, over letting a looney run rampid unchallenged and able to inflict harm on innocent civilians who are unable to defend themselves. Be smart carry on.
I live in South Florida and I tell you it’s happened to me many a times with the kayaks holsters is specially your shirt will get caught down in there as you’re putting the gun back in and I could see exactly how this happened just beware out there if you’re using a striker fired pistol without a thumb safety make sure nothing gets inside that trigger guard before you jam it in the holster or it will go bang!
Why should we not ban more then 10 page magazines? Or 10 minutes of broadcasting per day? Or a 10 word maximum on all editorials? More than that is just rabble-rousing nonsense.
Accidents happen. If you don’t want them to happen to you, be very conscious of every action you take with a firearm at any time, or don’t carry with one in the chamber. Dealer’s choice.
I humbly submit that this was not an accident. Negligence.
Or ditch the 22 mag all together and go glock 19
Why has Kleck never responded to these?
Hemenway (2001): http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/files/2013/09/Response-to-Kleck-SDGU.docx
Kellermann (1998): http://hsx.sagepub.com/content/5/3/276.extract
I crack up everytime I see that gun makers name in print. How exactly do you pronounce that?
How exactly do you pronounce that?
Roo-gur.
I can definitely understand the attraction of the craftsmanship. Undoubtedly everything is hand-finished, lapped, polished, and fitted. I’ve never seen a magazine-fed, over-under bolt-action rifle before, either. No doubt that it’s chambered in a big-bore cartridge, a great big belted-magnum most likely.
Entirely too rich for my taste, though. Aesthetically pleasing though it may be, I know what will stand up to Mother Nature’s wrath and get the job done just as effectively. All without having to save for 40 years or more to get it.
The one thing I wonder is this: When you cycle the bolt(s) after firing only one round, does it leave the unfired round in the chamber?
I can conceive of a design where the extractor claw is allowed to slip over the rim of the case only when the firing pin is allowed forward by firing, but it seems a really baroque setup in the event you wanted to unload the rifle and you have to get your finger into the chamber area to flip the cartridge out.
After looking at it more, I don’t like the aesthetics of the magazine plate on the left side of the action. It makes the whole thing seem asymmetrical and unbalanced to a distraction.
The last picture, with the highly relieved engraving/inlays: That’s a uniquely Germanic style on firearms. Many of the pre-WWII custom guns had absurdly deep engraving/carving onto the metal (and sometimes wood) on their sporting guns, to a point where you’d better hope that the gun didn’t recoil into your flesh, because it was going to hurt like holy hell if it did. I’m talking about miniature gargoyles on the rear of rifles and stuff like that. Absurdly detailed, deeply carved scenes in metal. Again, this is (or was) unique to Germanic custom guns in the past.
So… How does that silly little flippery doo-da in the trigger stop the trigger being pulled by something other than a finger. Yup, just as I thought. It’s crap.
South Africa has an incredibly high home invasion, murder, and kidnap rate. And Oscar was a prime target. So I hope he gets a fair trial.
de gustibus non disputanum est
if you are too shook up to remember the safety youre probably gonna miss any way…probably….
…..yea but they hold their value” parrled the salesman.
Beware the old man who’s too old to fight toe to toe, he will just shoot you. Doesn’t matter if it’s a .22, or Barrett 50, right is right and wrong is well,,,, accepting a lead solution.
I purchased an SR40 recently on the same day that my father-in-law purchased the SR40C. It’s true that (for some strange reason) the trigger in his SR40C functioned much better than in my SR40. HOWEVER, all I had to do was use some Flitz polishing agent on a few key contact points in the trigger assembly and clean out the factory grease and the trigger is as good as any (although not as good as the Volquartsen in my Ruger 22/45 but that’s another story). No gritty feeling-smooth as silk. And man is this gun accurate! Definitely more accurate than my buddy’s factory Glock. The slide release is fine as long as there is a loaded magazine in it (empty magazine puts a lot of spring pressure on the release lever). I’m not real pleased with the safety, but overall I really like this pistol!
What’s next, giving sharks fricking lasers?
I’d rather hold that than my girlfriends dualling pistols.Although she does have a really nice set.
Coming soon to a CA legislature near you….state mandated armored backpacks.
For the children. ™
David is already armed with a sling. And, after felling Goliath, he uses the giant’s sword to sever his head. Is that PC enough for Italy?
Hi, I own one and love it. Not just for the 14+1 shells but for the 24+1 if you use the 1 1/2″ aguila short shell. (shorties for the shortie)
Not surprising on a number of levels. Even if reported, nothing would happen, I’d suspect.
I don’t carry yet…I had to set up an appointment with my SO for my application, that was a one month wait, after I meet with them it will be another 90 days until I get my permit…
Our military is still pretty strong these days, but crime is out of control in some cities. It would seem that citizenry could have the most immediate impact by patrolling neighborhoods that really need it.
Except, even if you were to find enough volunteers to do that, citizen patrols would quickly get sued out of existence. A politically incorrect stop or two and accusations would start flying. And if a shot is ever fired, by the patrol or at the patrol, forget about it.
And one can wonder how many times George Zimmerman would get mentioned in any discussion about forming such citizen patrols.
If you didn’t grab her fine, skinny little hiney while you had the opportunity, you’re a wuss.
/sarc
GUFFAW!!!
If.your not threatening me then my concealed.handgun could give 2 shits about you. If its not piinted at you dont worry about it
2-in-1 torso target is superb and easily concentrate on particular target to shot :).and willing to buy this product for aim to concentrate for my- eye.
Well if the USA is ever invaded the invaders have a nice place to start.
This is a Fail on so many levels I don’t even know where to begin.
1. The constitution says the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, it does not say the right to keep and bear storm shelters shall not be infringed
2. It saddens me that you lack the confidence as a man to even try to defend yourself against a crazed killer instead of just sitting their waiting to be slaughtered.
3. Because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean it does not serve a purpose.
4. By your logic we should eliminate all police officers from sporting events because they pose a risk and accidentally shoot people and commit crimes as well.
5. Using your logic you shouldn’t wear a seat belt as well because that would mean you’re living in fear while driving your car
6. You do live life to prevent being attacked, you just don’t know it. You wash your hands everyday as not to get sick from being attacked by germs. You lock the doors to your house to avoid being attacked by intruders. You go to work everyday and pay your rent to prevent being attacked by foreclosures.
7. I hope you are never faced with a situation where someone is raping and killing your wife in front of you and that becomes the moment where you understand the importance of concealed carry.
“I know the threat is out there, but so is the threat of tornadoes, and I don’t carry a storm shelter on my person at all times.”
I had to stop reading after this….
+1 DIRK…as an evil old white man married to a beautiful black woman I’ve found most black women “get it”. Years ago my wife was a YWCA rape counsellor. She taught self defense tactics to timid White Women She was amazed how many didn’t want hurt their attacker. “If I don’t resist he won’t. hurt me” “I could never hurt anyone” . Some wouldn’t even carry pepper spray. (In Illinois).