Diana Trasatti (courtesy revelist.com)
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“We at NJ2AS understand that in the wake of the mass murder in Parkland, Florida, some forms of corrective action must be taken,”  Alexander Roubian [not shown] declares in an open letter to President Trump. “Despite the clear missteps of multiple law enforcement agencies and school administrators that led to this tragedy, we heard you loud and clear when you said you want new gun laws.” Wait. What? . . .

We at NJ2AS are asking that if any gun control bill comes across your desk, it guarantees New Jersey citizens the right to concealed carry. Without such a deal, there’s no such thing as “common sense” gun laws – only the further erosion of our rights with no actual benefit.

Despite the “if” in that entreaty, it seems that Mr. Roubian considers new federal gun control laws inevitable.

So he’s asking President Trump to exchange national concealed carry reciprocity for his signature on these new laws, whether it’s raising the minimum age to buy a long gun to 21, banning firearm accessories (e.g., bump stocks), creating due-process-free gun violence restraining orders or any other clear and present post-Parkland danger to Americans’ gun rights.

Now that Florida Republicans have surrendered to the “do something!” smells like teen spirit inflicted on the national consciousness by a mainstream media closerthenthis with the forces of civilian disarmament, it seems that gun rights groups — including the NRA — are fighting a rearguard action. At best.

Have gun rights groups they surrendered the high ground to the antis? Are they, too, caving?

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  1. The picture of that girl thing makes me think of my favorite bastard sword for some reason. Weird huh?;-)

  2. Yes, they’re surrendering ground. This wasn’t apparent on its own so you had to “phone a friend”?

    • It’s always easier to do the wrong thing (surender) instead of the right thing (standing up for your rights).

  3. The Gov has brought this up more than once: can anything be done to flag comments or votes on online polls and petitions when they are submitted by bots and not from real people? So those in power can see where the public actually stands on this and thus ignore the ones trying to cheat the polls?
    Not that it should matter… our civil rights are not subject to the whims of popular opinion… but let’s be real here – the people in charge are going to cover their own butts first and they need to know where We the People really stand.

    • I was made aware of this a couple years ago when I heard Rush Limbaugh explain his issue with it. There was a campaign to get his advertisers to drop him, but, unfortunately for them, Rush is a big tech fan and knows all the right people to get to the bottom of it. Turns out there were all of 10 people making all the noise. And he not only found out that, but he found out exactly who they were. 7 of them were women who were retired professors. They were able to make themselves look like 100,000 people. If you’ve got nothing better to do with your time you can make yourself into 10,000.

      We’re living in a new age where everybody needs to be more skeptical. We’re already to the point where you can’t believe audio and video. During the super bowl I saw Steven Tyler go back 40 years in time (just to sell cars). Yet people see that yet don’t seem to understand that videos (or audio) are no longer evidence of anything. Did theDonald really say he could get away with grabbing a woman by the p*ssy? Maybe not (he probably did though). No matter what you see or hear, you’re only taking the word of a person that it’s real. The first thing you need to ask yourself is, does this person have an agenda?

    • Hey Blov, while my other reply awaits moderation, maybe you could help me with a conundrum (first world problem) I’m dealing with.

      This; https://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=RUKM77RSI260REM

      or this; https://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=RUK1RSI257ROB

      The latter I haven’t even found yet, but I did find a not in stock price at 80% MSRP. The former I can get for less than 75% MSRP shipped, but the MSRP is a couple hundred more than the regular Hawkeyes. Mostly looking at it as a safe queen / range toy / investment. Unless there’s a zombie outbreak and I have to head to the hills.

      • A .260 and a .257? Safe queens indeed! If you’re not handloading either if those, you’ll have hell finding ammo at your local box store.
        I do have a certain soft spot for the Ruger No.1, though… never considered a stainless one – didn’t know that was an option and I’m not sure if I’m offended by it.
        Whichever way you go, you can’t lose with that Mannlicher stock – very classy, but for me I’d at least choose a chambering I could easily feed.

        • Well now this is the problem with the RSIs, you don’t really get to choose your caliber unless you’re extremely patient. I don’t think I’ve seen one in the Hawkeye for several years and the No 1s usually have one per year in the mannlicher. But that presents the possibility that I could actually make some money on it down the road despite using it. There are plenty of lightly used or ‘new old stock’ around in the No 1s though, there’s a couple on Gunbroker I’m watching in 7×57 (blued), so I could opt for one of those. I’ve got one No 1 and would like to collect several more, but then I’ve only got one boltgun and it’s plastic, so…

          I’m a little surprised that the .257 isn’t a little more popular since it’s COL is actually shorter than a .308. That would be pretty sweet in an AR10. The .260 has a better selection available though and would be more useful on larger game – it’s a popular cartridge for moose over in Europe(!).

        • It doesn’t get much purdier than a #1 SS w/Mannlicher stock. A case could be made for such in something like .45-70. Own nothing in the caliber but the tradition would fit well.

        • They just did a .45-70 but I don’t think it’s still in production. The #1 I do have is in .303 which I thought was fitting since it was probably the most common chambering for the original Farquharson rifle, back in the 1890s.

          The other thing about the .257 Rob, Ruger’s site lists it as an 18.5″ barrel as opposed to the 20″ listed by Lipsey’s. The RSIs have always been 20″ and I’ve never heard of an 18.5″, so that could make it very collectable.

  4. all we can do is let them learn from their mistakes. let them go down the path of Chicago, Detroit, NY, LA, SF, and let them reap what they sow. some people only learn the hard way. it seems we have entered a time of history amnesia. we have an entire generation of people, partly mine, that have no history education what so ever. so when we bring up examples of how other countries have tried this and failed, they are dumbfounded and frustrated that we know more about the subject than they do. this is where they start covering their ears and yelling “do something”. well nothing is something so how about they do nothing? sounds good to me.

  5. We Sure as Fuck are. The fact that Florida has fallen means other southern states are next. Domino theory is domino law. The mid west and what remains of the west will be the last to go. The Antis are winning this war at the state level. We’ve held them federally well for some time, but it won’t matter if all the states continue to fall.

    • Where did Florida fall Hank? I’m a Florida based gun guy and I haven’t noticed anything different about Florida today than yesterday. At least in my neck of the woods.

      Yes, I’m a not-one-more-inch kind of guy but I don’t get everything I want and tend to keep things in perspective.

      • Right now Walmart and Dicks can be sued for not selling a gun to someone under age 21.
        How about you get back to us when Gov Scott signs that bill and tell us what hasn’t changed.

      • I think what people are asking is not “are you a not one more inch” person?” but “are POTG of said region getting something they didn’t yet have in return for the concessions they made?”.

        • And I’ll ask, “Who said this was a compromise? That we had any choice in the matter? That we get anything or everything we want”?

          These new laws will in all likelihood be instituted without our endorsement. It happens. I don’t like it either. But it’s not the end of the world as we know it.

      • I’m an FL resident, too. Check out SB 7026. I don’t know that I would say that Florida has “fallen” per say but it’s certainly a huge mistake and we’re headed down the wrong path with this type of legislation. I requested an appointment with Rick Scott earlier this week since I’m based in Tallahassee but I haven’t heard from his staff yet. Fingers crossed, he can still have some sense talked into him– but to be honest, I doubt it.

        • I agree. This is a gravity issue. It’s going to happen regardless. I also know that the progressives are waiting for the next mass shooting to push for further gun “control”.

  6. Yes. We have surrendered ground. And it’s because we as a community are so fragmented while the anti’s are totally unified. Our side is too willing to give up things for nothing or very little in return. The fudds of today are the type who are ok with sacrificing bumpstocks because they think they’re stupid, thinking it’ll placate the anti’s. Then they get the legislation mike Florida past which will make those Timney Triggers on their Remington 700’s count as machine guns because they theoretically increase the rate of fire. Guess what people, that didn’t work in 94 with assault weapons. Look up Brady Bill 2 to see what was coming down the pike after you surrendered those. Same applies here. They will keep coming and coming while you keep losing more and more ground.

    We’ve rested on letting the NRA take care of things for too long. They’re good, but we as gun owners need to steal a page out of the anti playbook. We need to organize. Take a day off of work to attend a progun rally. Can you not spare one vacation/sick day to preserve your rights?!? By not having a physical presence, we lose ground. Because the anti’s are the squeaky wheel, and they’ll get the grease at OUR expense.

    • while I agree, what make you think the rally would be covered by the media? If its not covered by the media and people don’t know a million concerned gun owners were marching on DC what is going to change?

      • Dudes, seriously, nobody is coming for your Timney triggers. One pull, one bullet is all that matters.

        • That’s the definition of a binary trigger as well. One “action of the trigger”, one bullet. Funny how that hasn’t stopped gun grabbers.

        • This is so stupid and you’re a Fudd hack. It doesn’t matter what they say they will or will not do – it’s what the law says. The law includes timney triggers. Stop being deliberately retarded.

    • 100% this. I would also kick it up notch. Most pro-gun memes are too cerebral. We need folks posting flyers like “A gun is protecting you” in deep blue gun free zones. We need to shift the optics so that we are the cool oppressed underdogs and the anti-gunners are the establishment shills. That’s how you win the culture war.

      • Agreed fight these dumb alinsky morons with their own tools and meme the piss out of them. Especially limeys from Australia and the UK.. Those assholes are all over YouTube preaching their anti gun bs while the muz caliphate looms..

    • The d a ‘s think that if they give the liberals some gun control that they will vote for them. Idiots, these liberals ( commies ) do not vote conservative republican. Lawsuits will remove this idiotic bill.

  7. Gun Right groups bow to populism like any all groups. If anti-gun Trump seems popular, we are going to have to see a lot of “Dump Anti 2nd Trump” and “Boot the Republicans out of office” come from the Right to give the gun groups some spine. I’ll start… #DumpAnti2ndTrump.

  8. Aren’t nearly 23,000 regulations – INFRINGEMENTS – (unconstitutional BTW) on our 2nd Amendment PROTECTIONS enough?!?!?!

    What OTHER “law” can be passed that will stop these MASS MURDER/SHOOTINGS in so called “gun free zones”?!?!?!?!

    BTW, these so called “gun free zones” are NOT gun free when an EVIL person walks in WITH A GUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I was amused when a student in Michigan seemed confused when he said (after a student MURDERED HIS PARENTS AT cmu) THIS IS A “gun free” campus, how was he able to bring a GUN onto CAMPUS?!?!

    Well, those “gun free zone” signs DON’T STOP GUNS from coming onto campuses!!


    We need 23,000 laws making the already ILLEGAL MURDERS, MORE illegal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Makes as much sense, R I G H T ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

    ONLY 17 deaths on that florida campus, but it’s OK for (un)planned parenthood to MURDER THOUSANDS of pre-born babies EVERY WEEK?!?!

    I wonder, if buns were used to do ABORTIONS would the left still be pushing for abortions?!?!

    Asked that question MANY times——NEVER have received and answer!!!!

    • I agree 100% with the sentiment but the whole list of facts thing has been done a million times and bounces right off the skull of Jane Doe, New Jersey soccer mom. We need to change it up.

  9. Trump was just on TV spouting that Floriduh did good by passing people er gun control. I wiil NEVER vote for the NYC RINO again…Australia style gun CONFISCATION to follow?!? Pence/Cruz 2020…gun owners have long memories.

    • I’m enthusiastically voting for Trump again in 2020. Bigger economic picture and positive changes in the course of the and direction of this country picture matters more than minor gun law setbacks in my state.

      • 🤦‍♂️ Well, I for one don’t want the Florida contagion to spread to the Federal level. Just out of curiosity how much more gun control are you willing to accept? I am sure your local politicians would love to accommodate you.

        • Sorry, I just don’t consider banning bump stocks and trigger cranks and raising age minimums to 21 as “gun control”. Nobody is coming for our Timneys. Castigate me all you want. I can deal with it. We just have different opinions. And perspectives.

          What the Democrats were requesting and the Republicans soundly defeated was “gun control”. Which is why I will never vote for a Democrat.

        • Sometimes you lose. I’m not going to lose sleep over minor setbacks.

          I also disagree that we are “screwed” in the long term.

          Whoever said it was going to be easy?

          Seriously, we had 100 – 200 gun guys show up in Tallahassee. That’s it. Compared to thousands of anti’s. If you guys cared so much after the fact, where the f were you? Yes, I know Luis was here.

        • Fair enough, I see gun control holistically as a progressive disease. Gun control positive States find it easier to pass new and acceleratingly worse laws. No small amount of cancer is acceptable cancer, IMO.

    • Guns aren’t the issue, Self Imposed cultural genocide is. As in immigration.

      South Africa and Rhodesia are your clues. When the majority of Americans are replaced by 3rd worlders, the Constitution will simply be replaced, because it is a symbol of White Patriarchy and Privileged or some such bullshit and be replaced.

      Pence and Cruz are open border Globalist lite.

    • Hey Ima, I bet you didn’t know that in my county a kid can credibly threaten to shoot up his school the next morning, complete with pictures, and he has broken no laws. That needs to change. That change would cue the pissing and moaning though.

  10. IMHO NJ2AS is a bunch of Mary’s. It is long past time for them to begin the revolution, and they should have done it while Christy was gov and not waited until now. They needed a million man armed march to get all of them arrested for carrying. If you live in a blatantly unconstitutional state you need to get revolutionary, in the traditional sense. Otherwise it’s nothing but lip (lib) service.

  11. Call me what you will but IMHO there is only one “common sense” gun law:

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


    • So a kid that threatens to shoot up his school should be allowed to purchase the firearms to do so? Because in my county, he can.

      I don’t think so.

      • When Bullets Collide,

        Instead of asking for more firearm laws, ask your legislature to make it illegal to threaten to attack people (pro-tip: it is already illegal and called felonious assault depending on your jurisdiction) and then DEMAND that law enforcement actually enforce that law. Presto! Criminal goes to prison (for threatening to attack people) and he/she cannot purchase firearms NO MATTER HOW OLD HE/SHE IS. And it all happened without another firearm law.

      • I don’t know what country you live in but it is not the USA. A kid, <18 is not allowed to purchase a firearm anymore. I was when I was young and bought my first Mosin at age 15. But if a kid threatens to shoot up a school that is a criminal act and that kid belongs in jail.

        • C’mon man. I’m talking about 18yo’s. That covers lots of high school kids. In my county, the local DA was just interviewed for a story and he stated that no laws cover a whacko kid threatening to shoot up his school. That’s a problem. I would prefer to take people at their word and treat them accordingly.

          In addition, too many of these asshole government employees are ignoring whackos like Nicholas Cruz. That’s what needs to be fixed.

        • I find that hard to believe. But fine. There are costs and risks associated with our little experiment called a Constitutional Republic. Freedom and Liberty come with responsibility and sometimes at a high price. The 1st Amendment seems to be getting in the way of doing something in this case; life’s a bitch. The Constitution does not exist to make law enforcement’s job easier, it exists to retain power where it belongs, to the People and get IN THE WAY of Government. Does that make us any safer? Nope. But the definition of safe is the absence of risk. No such state of affairs exists in nature.

        • Very interesting. What really stood out in my mind from reading that article is this:
          Campbell said language that prevents people from yelling “fire” in a crowded theater should apply to shooting threats. The balancing act comes when the First Amendment right to speak one’s mind butts against restrictions on causing injury or panic.

          I find it absolutely amazing that a lawyer, a state AG no less, is so poorly educated that he thinks a law prevents people from yelling fire in a crowded theatre. It is this same uneducated thinking that has led to all these unconstitutional gun laws which actually do infringe upon the right of the People to exercise a right. There are NO LAWS, which prevent the free exercise of the 1st Amendment, NONE. All they do is punish the use of speech when it harms another. IF ONLY, this seeming nuanced yet profoundly important concept were properly understood we actually might end up honoring the Constitution.

  12. Reciprocity for 21 to purchase seems like a fair trade to me. While unconstitutional let’s not pretend that they didn’t throw out following the Constitution long ago. At least this way we get something in return.

      • Just another thief trying to bargain his way with someone else’s possessions. They used to hang horse thieves. Selling someone into servitude is much worse. Perhaps the real POTG ought to demand reparations. Give me my 40mm and M274.

      • +1

        Would the men at Lexington and Concord have stood by, allowing only their brothers in arms younger than 21 to be disarmed, saying, “Oh well, if we have to give up something…”?

  13. “Have gun rights groups they surrendered the high ground to the antis? Are they, too, caving?”

    They haven’t been fighting for the unalienable, constitutionally protected, individual right to keep and bear arms. The fatal flaw has always been accepting government privileges in place of the exercise of a right. I suspect many POTG suffer from this same error in thinking.

    If you support background checks, licensing, or any regulation on weapons manufacture, commerce, or possession then you support gun control. The battle is lost by giving an inch of ground. The exercise of the unalienable individual right to keep and bear arms cannot be fully restored incrementally. It certainly cannot be restored by accepting government privileges in place of the exercise of the actual right.

  14. I’ll be glad to surrender bump stocks and ONLY bump stocks for national reciprocity. Or, a Hughes repeal and an open registry again. That seems fair. We’re taking “machine guns” out of hands and getting them into hands of people who have been thoroughly vetted. /sarc

    Those who help will be rewarded by votes, those who destroy will be rewarded with votes.

  15. Bloomberg found Mayors got in trouble too much so he couldn’t effectively use them, no one paid attention to moms so he couldn’t effectively use them, now he’s on to using children after Florida. Maybe one day they will realize their emotions don’t hold up to scrutiny.

  16. So how far are we going to let this go; Assault weapons ban, Gun Registration, Confiscation?
    What will stem the tide, a million man armed yet PEACEFUL march on the white house, or congress ? (I hope not due to snipers and mini guns , yeah I shit you not)
    I pray that lead Never needs to fly.
    I predict POTG will be backed into a corner within the next 10 years, most will give up and comply, registration, confiscation. some will hide guns. A very small minority will fight but will be defeated. via govt intervention and govt run Media smear campaign Waco style, They’ll be labeled Extremest right wing fringe terrorist the right center and conservatives will distance themselves and condemn along with the rest of the Fudds and progs.
    Next Unimpeded from any counter they’ll go after censoring conservative speech, Media, and Religion, and Due process.

    • I don’t know about that prediction. The Bundy case was kicked out of court – all charges dropped – because the courts found the government’s case weak and their methods unsound. That could easily have become a Waco or Ruby Ridge situation – with the difference being that the Feds would have been dying too.

      It’s not as one-sided as you may believe. The shrieking kids will get tired of posing as activists and will soon return to bullying each other via whatever the social media du jour is. Moms are losing media attention. Our side is patient – I still have hope. But – would like to have seen Congress and Trump make more progress on HPA and Reciprocity last year, before all the latest nastiness occurred. That set us back, but didn’t kill the cause.

  17. No. We given enough. 80 years ago, the nfa passed as a compromise bill. Our side traded machine guns (The evil guns of the day) silencers, sbs and sbr for no regulations on pistols. (Which they really wanted to ban more than machine guns) All we got was speeches from the Roosevelt administration claiming the NRA was more powerful than the administration and the attorney general calling for all guns to be regulated under nfa style regulations (with a 25 cent tax stamp) a mere 3 years later.

    When we compromise, all we do is signal weakness. The enemy knows that all they have to do is wait. Eventually they will bully everything they want out of us.

  18. That is unamerican… I don’t give a shit what they compromise. These asshole politicians are making illegal laws and they need to be sent a direct message.. Maybe tag up their office or dump socialism pamphlets outside their doorstep of their offices or rent signs embarrassing their asses for being socialist pieces of crap.. But by no means will I gamble my fucking rights with these assholes.. Would be nice if someone dumped cow shit in front of their offices or defaced their billboards or voting signs… We have to get dirty with these political assholes.. Cheapshot these fuckers up the ass just like the political activists of our history did with carpet baggers… I’m all for smearing dog shit all over the windows of my democrat rep senators office.. Maybe get 1000 hammer/ sickle stickers and tag the assholes car too… Nothing is off the table with these socialist jerkoffs…

  19. The cognitive dissonance in the gun community guarantees the long term goal of disarming the public. Far too many people who allegedly believe in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution quietly support transgressions against multiple other individual rights and pretend the goal all along hasn’t been to disarm the public.

  20. “Kids” are leading this round of gun control. Sure, they’re being led, but they’re being led willingly. So let them lose their rights. Preferably, all of their rights. They asked for it, and now they’re going to get it good and hard.

    If they ever wake up, they’ll remember who forked them. If they stay stupid, then they don’t deserve to own a gun or anything else.

    • The powers that be that will eventually disarm the public are smart enough to use children as a shield at attack what’s left of our rights.

  21. Disgraceful! For the past 100 years the left has crippled the 2a. The intent was to be armed equal to a standard infantry Soldier, and now we are left with simple semi-automatic firearms. Not one more inch should we give them, they have taken enough already.

  22. Surrendering ground? I don’t know about that. In a war you take losses, lose ground, take ground, win battles, lose battles. Sometimes we do well and sometimes we don’t. There are some times I wish certain groups would worry less about PC bullshit and get more gangsta about how they do things.

    I mean, if Wayne LaPierre rolled into a speech like the beginning of a UFC match with 50 Cent blaring I’d be laughing my ass off but I’d also have more respect for the guy.

    “Nobody likes me
    Nobody likes me, but that’s okay
    Cause I don’t like y’all anyway
    And I don’t like y’all anyway
    Fuck all y’all!
    My watch talk for me, my whip talk for me
    My gat talk for me…”

    • Pray tell what have we gained? I mean really gained?

      Sunset of the AWB and maybe some loosening of the carry laws at the local level. Heller and McDonald may have helped Chicago and Washington D.C. a little but everywhere else has been a status quo or gotten worse.

      You can’t win a war just playing defense which is all we have been doing. Heck we couldn’t even get the HPA or CC reciprocity and probably never will especially after Parkland.

      There is really only ONE way things will be right again. Not the most ideal way, not the way I want it to go, but a political solution will never be possible with how society has been shaping itself the past 100 years and only getting worse.

      I vote, I contact my representatives. My Florida one gave me the shaft and still voted for more gun control. What now? Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Maybe I can vote him out but even if he loses who is to say the next person isn’t a backstabbing POS?

      • “Pray tell what have we gained? I mean really gained?”

        Uh, the “right to carry” was not a “right” in any state prior to 1961. The ball on that really got rolling in terms of CCW, oddly enough, Florida, in 1987. Today all 50 states allow some form of CCW and 45 states allow open carry in some capacity.

        We lost on the AWB in 1994 but we basically won when it wasn’t renewed in/after 2004. I’d call that retaking ground.

        The original “Brady Bill” was struck down as an unfunded mandate (which it was).

        We’ve also had some decent wins at the SCOTUS of late: D.C. v Heller (2008), McDonald v Chicago (2010), Caetano v. Massachusetts (2016)

        Those are some pretty significant gains if you ask me. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows but it’s not all doom and gloom either.

  23. Gun Rights Groups are surrendering ground because their Leadership thinks they can bargain with the Devil and win by compromise. Too few gun owners belong to and actively support National and State Gun Rights Groups. Too few gun owners actively support those groups with money to fund action and with communication to POTUS and COTUS defining our beliefs and demands.

    Even the discussion in this thread demonstrates how disunited we are as various comments seem more focused on “being more correct than the other guy”, while some advocate further bargaining with Satan and futile compromise. We are wringing the “win” out of our own community.

    The right to keep and bear Arms is one of those inalienable rights as described in the Declaration of Independence, which is NOT a document with force of Law behind as is The Constitution, but a philosophical political manifesto upon which The Constitution was based.

    Give up our right to keep and bear Arms, and the other rights protected in The Constitution will be denied and infringed in short order. Totalitarians like nothing better than a disarmed populace to impose their tyranny. Look to History to see the truth of that demonstrated time and again. In the main you will find that Humans always seek control over other Humans. In all History the greatest success in Human Liberty was achieved only in The United States of America and only for about 150 years. Walter Williams predicts that some time in the future Historians may note that in all Human History there were a few tiny “blips” where Humans lived in individual liberty, and one of those “blips” will be The United States of America. We are closing-in on the final days of that “blip”. Without unity the darkness will envelop us all.

  24. I think she looks really hot. But knowing what she advocates I am reminded of the title old Lovin Spoonful song “Only Pretty What a Pity” !


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