Ages ago, when TTAG was still in its infancy, RF reviewed the modernized and shiny Charter Arms Undercover .38 Revolver. I’ve tried a couple of the newer .38 snubbies out there, and I absolutely hated the way the big, over-molded rubber grips made it look like I was smuggling a pineapple in my pants whenever I carried them. So when I ran across this very lightly used classic version in a local gun shop, with thinner wood grips and a more 1920’s look to it, I had to try it out for myself. But is it any better? . . .
First, a little backstory.
I carry a Wilson Combat Bill Wilson Carry 1911 as my normal everyday carry gun. Well, at least I used to when I lived in Virginia. The temperate climate allowed me to at least wear a concealment garment of some sort (usually just another button-down shirt left open) to make sure I wasn’t printing too much. And even then, worst case scenario, Virginia is an “open carry” state so I could have done away with that whole “concealed” rigamaroll altogether if it was too warm.
Texas is…different. During the summer it’s often too hot to wear anything besides a light t-shirt outside, meaning that trying to conceal a 1911 (even a baby one like mine) is difficult. Factor in the inability to open carry and what you have is a situation where my best option was to leave the gun in the car. That wasn’t good enough for me, so I decided to buy a small wheelgun that I could slip into my pocket on those warmer days. That’s where the Charter snubby comes into play.
I tried carrying a tiny Smith & Wesson J-frame of some sort for a while, but there was something about the way the grip was angled that meant it was always peeking out of my pocket. Not so with the Charter .38 — this puppy stays nicely concealed in the depths of my pants all day long. It’s only visible if you take a flashlight and go poking around inside my pockets.
On the outside, though, it does make the pocket bulge just a tad. And by “just a tad” I mean that the thing looks like I have a soda can in my front pocket. Then again, no one ever seems to notice, and putting my hand in that pocket seems to make the bulge less noticeable. So it works for the intended purpose: pocket carry. But does it work as a firearm?
Robert had some issues with his snubby’s timing being off (the cylinder not locking before the hammer drops on the cartridge), but mine has been just peachy. I made sure to test the timing before I plunked down the cash for it at the gun shop and it was solid as a rock. Everything else, though, sucked.
The trigger rates a solid “meh.” The double action pull is long and tough and doesn’t have a real “wall” before the final break, so you just keep pulling and eventually it goes off. And in single action mode, there’s noticeable creep to the trigger. Then, after about 20 rounds, the cylinder release stopped working. The only way to get the cylinder open was to pull forward on the shell extractor rod.
Things only get worse when I tried to fire it.
I finally understand why people love those big, over-molded grips so much: they make recoil much less painful. Especially with my gigantic bear-like mitts, every time I pulled the trigger the metal trigger guard would crash down into my knuckles and cause considerable pain. That pain translated into some terrible shooting. I had to move forward to the five yard line to get the pitiful grouping you see here.
Despite all that complaining, though, the fact remains that it’s a functional firearm that goes bang every time I pull the trigger. It’s something that’s easy to conceal, cheap to pick up, and light enough to slip into my pocket in the morning and forget about the rest of the day. In short, it works, and for that reason I’m keeping it. Although it might be quite some time before I ever voluntarily take it to the range again . . .
Specifications:
Caliber .38 Special
Capacity 5
Barrel Length 2”
Weight 16 Oz.
Sights Notch and post
Price $300 (About $200 – $250 is what I see around here)
Ratings (out of five stars):
All ratings are relative to other similar guns, and the final score IS NOT calculated from the constituent scores.
Accuracy: *
Minute of bad guy at 5 yards. Not exactly a tackdriver, but good enough for the statistically average shootout.
Ergonomics (Handling): * * *
Feels great in the pocket, if a little wide. Not much to hold onto when you draw it, though.
Ergonomics (Firing): *
Gah!
Reliability: *
Yes, it goes bang every time the trigger is pulled. Then again, there’s that non-functional cylinder release. Beyond that, it’s like pulling the handle on a slot machine.
Customize This: * * *
Ummm…new grips? Maybe? It does fit into the standard J-Frame sized pocket holsters.
Overall: * *
For its intended function, it works. It’s just a terrible gun in almost every other category.
I concur with the dislike of j-frame boot grips. I bought some standard profile wooden j-frame grips for around $30 and put them on my 642. Problem solved.
Guess it depends on the pockets. A S&W 642 rides in the front pocket of my khakis just fine. At any rate, I’ve fired a Charter undercover, as well as a Taurus 85. They would be fine if that’s all I had, but I prefer my J-frame. However, after a friend let me try his Ruger LCR, I have to admit that I like it a bit better. Not quite enough to actively seek to replace the J-frame, but if an opportunity to trade came along I would probably go for it.
Got to play with one in boot camp. And they say there is “no sporting purpose” in a machine gun? Whoever said that has never fired one.
Put 4 of them together in a Quad-50. Figure about $10,000/minute in ammo. Mount on a WWII half-track. What I’m buying when I win $50 million in the lottery.
Your mama Nancy and her best bud Diane Frankenstein already tried that in San Francisco you floozzy and the violent crime rate in SF is way above average for a city its size. By comparison the violent crime rate in Portland where even the liberals own a gun (or more than one gun) is very low.
Dumba$$. Magic bullet wounds require magic band-aids.
Maybe the cops picked him up in a bad neighborhood , and hurried their search to get out of the area
Yes. Next question.
If you want more detail, consider this: I’ll accept the same number and type of requirements for gun ownership and carry as I will for voting. Both categories are dangerous activities that we trust good citizens to do.
Firearm safety training SHOULD be a manditory part of public education regardless of whether one should later decide to acquire a personal firearm or not. What better way to “save kid’s lives” than to teach them all to keep their fingers out of the trigger guard and not play with grownups’ tools except when explicity supervised by a responsible adult? Re-training for a carry license should be recommended, but it’s not reasonable to have to qualify for a right.
Generically, no. You shouldn’t pose a danger to yourself or those around you- remember, they also have a “right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”. However, it needs to just cover the safety basics and be standardized for the entire Union. I’d hate to see it perverted into some hurdle that denies a social or educational class their rights as a citizen.
Not that I would ever encourage someone not to seek medical attention following acute lead toxicity, but…
the reality of extremity injuries is that if there are no structural injuries, i.e., a named vessel or bone, then you’re pretty much going to get your wound washed out and sent home. Sometimes a vascular injury is obvious, i.e., you’re trying to exanguinate or your foot has turned blue, sometimes not so much. The safest thing to do is to get a CT arteriogram scan with run off (follow the contrast as it goes down from pelvis into legs), but in practice, if there’s nothing obvious and the blood pressure at each ankle is the same, then people get a ‘life saving’ tetanus shot and sent home after a short period of observation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wclloi-qjU
“The question at hand is whether mandated safety training before receiving a carry permit would be an undue burden.”
No, it is NOT and undue burden for the carry permit – the CARRY PERMIT is the undue burden.
My Smith 340 PD .357 snubbie is about as accurate as latter day Brett Favre, and shooting it is roughly as comfortable as grabbing an electric fence. Don’t feel too bad.
The Smith is, however, 100% reliable and has a decent DA (only) trigger pull.
I think as gun owners we should encourage other gun owners to take training. And shame those that don’t. Because it is a good idea to do so.
However, I’m not in favor of REQUIRING it in order to do something that is your legal right to do already.
Consider driving: We currently require people to go through a year of Permit Training, then pass a written test, and then pass a proficiency driving test before they can get their license.
But take a look around at the people driving around you. How many of them do you think are competent drivers? M.A.D.D. says 1 our of 7 on the road are drunk. Another percentage are suspended, revoked, have no license, are texting, eating, putting on their make up, beating their kids, or are just plain jerks, speeding, cutting people off, cutting in/out of traffic, driving too fast on ice/snow/whatever.. passing on the shoulder, and on and on and on…
Having a license does not make you competent. And/Or safe.
+1!
I’m very pro-training. I’m equally anti-government.
And who cares, most people carry guns for self defense. did he go on a shooting spree with his plastic gun that only sometimes fires 1 bullet and only holds 1 bullet. We’re not scared of freedom. Gun laws just allow the criminals to carry guns.
The drive thru ATM I use has braille letters and numbers on it. Do we really want to chance the gubmint getting involved in firearms training? Braille markings on my Glock? With the NRA’s help, local ranges could sponsor low cost or even free gun classes at ranges all over the country. We’re on the defensive now. Let’s get pro-active for our own cause. Take the mystique out of guns, educate people so they don’t elect idiots based on panic. We can do a lot more for our own good.
Drive through ATM with braille isn’t a bad idea. Put your blind relative/friend in the driver’s side back seat, pull up to the ATM so that he can reach the machine. Of course a blind person won’t be driving.
as a rule of thumb, in political statements, one can safely disregard any paragraph in which the word “hope” appears.
I’ve tried carrying various guns but the only one that always works for me is a Smith J-frame (preferably a no-lock 642 with a trigger job) in the front pocket. When wearing khakis or cargo pants/shorts with deep and wide pockets, I can easily carry one with a full size Hogue Monogrip. With jeans, the small S&W wood grip panels are easier to conceal but a tad on the small side with in comes to holding onto the gun when firing. I don’t find the recoil from the Airweight shooting +P ammo to be a big deal so this doesn’t bother me. With fairly good consistency, I can hit within the critical zone of a man-sized target at a decent range.
I have a Charter .38 Off Duty I bought in the 80’s. It was a pretty nice little gun that I abused and neglected and it still functioned for many years. Alas, I got a cartridge case hung under the extractor and manhandled it out which broke something. The extractor rod would not return forward. The gun is in two parts in a plastic baggie and keep thinking I’ll get it repaired someday. Someday.
Hey. I recognize that range. My personal favorite place to shoot.
Best of the West Shooting Sports
Always good to see another Mosin review. It reminds me that I need a couple more M91/30s.
While I am partial to Mausers, the very first rounds all my friends put down range were through my 91/30 at their request. They’re simple, rugged, and an excellent platform to learn on for less recoil minded novices. They’re also a great gun to mess up on for DIY gunsmithing and refinishing projects.
I’m still not 100% clear on what makes this rifle twice as good as a customized Remington 700… Given the lead time, I would think you can get a comparable gun faster and for less money simply by pimping the hell out of a top shelf bolt gun.
Welcome, we need new blood to trash those commie bastards, that said in the nicest way, Randy
Durka durka-San?
Love finding these old posts…
Well, that certainly explains why my news-story tip was answered by some “Frank” character. 🙂
That was “SWEET”.
I have a Charter 2000 that I sent in for warranty work,the firing pin was sticking out into one of the chambers and freezing up the action,I sent it the first of August this year.I recieved the gun back The 29th,man was I surprised they not only replaced the firing pin spring which was what was wrong,but they replaced the firing pin,tightened up the action,and brush cleaned the outside,it looked almost new.In this day and time for this type of service I give Charter Arms a big five star rating,oh and it shoots like new too.Be prepared and ready.Keep your powder dry.
oddly enough, I just picked up the same gun, old school, smooth grips not checkered…. and the only complaint I have is the finish (bland not shiny). it appeared to be shot very little. lock up was very good and timing was exceptional. got it for $250 OTD. no, it is not as accurate as my model 60, nor is the trigger as smooth, but the trigger is crisp and kind of smooth. accuracy of mine is considerably better that minute of man at 5 yards. I was surprised by this gun considering what they put out today.
forgot to add, used for testing federal low recoil 110gr. hydrashoks and wwb 130gr. fmj.
CA was founded in 1964 by Doug McClennahan. “For years Doug McClennahan was a gun designer with Colt, High Standard, and Sturm Ruger. Using his strong engineering and inventive background he decided to go out on his own. The early guns (the first 3000 or so) did not display an address on the barrel. Starting in 1966, the guns, made in Bridgeport, CT, were marked with that address.David Ecker bought out Doug McClennahan’s share of the company in 1972 and moved it to Stratford, Connecticut in 1974. Guns made in Stratford were marked on the right side of the barrel: with the new address this is when things went south so if you have a non marked or a bridgeport you have a well made Undercover.
In a sense, though, the record can be described as a tale
of two albums with the first half being the more immediate or song-oriented pieces and the latter
half being the epic, progressive explorations. Realization.
Can we at least acknowledge their existence.
I have a Charter Arms Undercover .38 SPL. And it was my Dad’s until he passed away. He bought it new. It looks just like the one at the top of the page on here. I honestly don’t think he ever shot it. Has a belt clip leather holster. And I am wanting to sell it for the simple reason I am not into guns myself. Can some one please let me know what a excellent shape hand gun like that would be worth ? Thank you very much.
I know this is an ancient thread and the likelihood of you reading this is minute but I feel moved to say it. I’m sorry if this was mentioned in the comments I scrolled by but I just couldnt read anymore “yea but my charter” needy people.
Your shot group is not your guns fault. Judging by your impact pattern displayed above (assuming fresh/relatively fresh target) it’s your trigger squeeze and finger placement on the trigger itself. Right side pull is caused by placing your finger incorrectly. Move the placement of the trigger away from the last knuckle. Ideally the trigger should fall between the tip of your finger on that first knuckle. Given the OG Chart .38’s narrow grip, this takes some time and practice if you have above average sized hands.
With proper trigger placement, my index finger makes a nearly perfect 90 degree angle from the trigger to my hand.
As far as trigger guard clearance is concerned, either deal with it, use a different gun altogether or lose weight. There is no way you’re bashing your finger on the guard unless you are extremely out of shape and have fingers that would put a polish sausage to shame.
As far as trigger pulls are concerned, single action pulls for mine are about even with the un-modded revolvers I’ve handled. Somewhere between 8-10 pounds.
Utilizing the double action’s reduced trigger preasure and travel time, I find it extremely accurate for a 2″ snubby and can 4/5 tennis balls at 20 yards consistently. Refer back to trigger squeeze.
It’s good to post reviews of weapons but do not let your personal circumstances/experience cloud over the review of the weapon. A review of a weapon is based on the weapon itself first and foremost. Your inability to properly handle it has nothing to do with it, it’s frame or its manufacturer.
Perhaps a little more familiarization prior to immortalizing your inexperience online is in order?
My Charter Arms Off Duty was made by the newest Charter Arms company who re-designed the manufacturing methods of these great little revolvers. The lug, barrel and front tight are one piece, the method for cutting the grooves is improved and the gun I have owned for the last 3 years works flawlessly, and is extremely accurate…not just for a snubby, but for any handgun. I have been shooting revolvers since the 1970’s, and some dry fire practice with them will show you where your flinch is…try that before blaming the gun
Either my CA Off Duty or my S&W Bodyguard Airweight are my carry revolvers.
Inherited a Undercover 38 made by Charter Arms sometime in the 1980’s. Trying to find out if ok to use P+ ammo. Gun fired only a few times.
I have a 38 Charter special old police gun and I need a cyclinder for it. Where could I ordered it from. Love the gun the right size for me . But I don’t have cyclinder. If anyone could tell plz let let me kno.
Thank u.
I GOT MY DAUGHTER A CARTER ARMS 38 SPL.
ITS IS A CRAPPY GUN WAY TO MUCH BLOW BACK WILL NEVER BUY ANY MORE GUN FROM THIS COMPANY.
I GOT MY DAUGHTER A CARTER ARMS 38 SPL. .ITS A CRAPPY GUN. WAY TO MUCH BLOW BACK NEEDS FIXED
HOW DO WE GET IT FIXED. PLEASE.
EMAIL ME THE ANWSER