“There are a lot of great training schools and instructors out there,” Caleb writes at gunnuts.net. “Long time readers of the blog know that I’ve never included Front Sight in that list, and there are good reasons for a lot of that. If Front Sight was just a training school using obsolete techniques, that would be one thing. But there are many, many problems with Front Sight that extend beyond just their training.” Specifically, Caleb slates the school’s . . .
slavish adherence to the Weaver stance, their prices ($1k for a two-day handgun course), lousy instruction and owner Dr. Ignatius Piazza’s affiliation with Scientology. Those are Caleb’s 4 reasons I’ll never go to Front Sight.
Now a lot of readers reckon The People of the Gun should present a united front in the face of those who would disarm civilians to pursue their utopian (dystopian) goals. But I love gun rights guys and gals’ no-holds-barred devotion to telling it like it is. As you might expect from a man who runs a website called The Truth About Guns.
So I’m more than OK with “outing” lousy guns, gun makers, gun dealers, gun rights advocates and firearms training facilities. But is Caleb right? Those of you who’ve been to Front Sight please sign in and sound off. Meanwhile, we’ve reached out to Front Sight for a reply. Watch this space.
Does Front Sight put photographers in front of people shooting like Yeager and crew at Tactical Response? Seems if we are going to start outing outdated training academies we should also be “outing” the likes of T.R. as well.
This article strikes me as ambush journalism at its “finest” … you diss on the guy for his religious convictions, which have nothing to do with his training academy, but you routinely features James “I’m going to shoot somebody” Yeager.
Double standard? You bet.
Never go full Yeager.
You never shut up about Yeager, do you?
So far I have taken one Two-Day Defensive handgun class at Front Sight. I paid $250 for a lifetime membership which gives me a wide variety of two and four day classes that I don’t have to pay anything additional for. When I arrived there for the first time I was amazed at how big and organized the facility is, and at how many people from all walks of life were there. From failies with children to retired couples there was a lot of different people. My class was taught by two ex-police officers and one current police trainer, as part of the teaching group. All had been NRA trainers as well, and every one of my trainers had a long experience shooting. Sure, they taught the Weaver stance, and it worked for me. What really helped, though, was the little details like grip, leaning forward slightly, things like that which immediately improved my accuracy. As part of our class people who were there for the first time or who were there for the CCW requirements had to sit through a couple of lectures, one each day which lasted about 45 minutes and talked about some of the other stuff to think about when using a firearm for self defense, such as the legal ramifications. All in all I thoroughly enjoyed my class, I will be going back for some more classes, and I thought Front Sight did a fantastic job. Of course, I live only 20 minutes away, so lodging isn’t an issue for me, but FS is about an hour from the Las Vegas strip if you drive conservatively. There are also a few very nice hotel-casinos that can shave 15 to 20 minutes off that drive, if you want to stay in Vegas.
Is it the absolute best place to train in the world? Maybe, maybe not, I’m not an expert. I am sure that some of the trainers aren’t as qualified or as experienced as mine were, but FS appears to keep things consistent. Most people are there to learn the basics, and I think they get the basics well enough. There were a few people in my class who had never really fired a handgun before, and by the end of the second day they felt much more comfortable and had shown vast improvement in their skills.
What Front Sight did for me was open up my eyes and got me searching for more information. I absolutely am planning on taking classes at other facilities in the future, like Gunsite, and from other trainers. I found TTAG after attending my class there, because again I was opened to the idea that there is a whole lot more out there I don’t know and that information is becoming easier and easier to find. I wouldn’t pay the full advertised price for the classes, but for most of them you don’t ever have to. Shop around, read reviews and talk to people when looking into any training, just like we do when buying a new gun.
Odd, this is the first time I’ve ever posted here that I have the message “Your comment is awaiting moderation.”
I’ve never seen that here in my life. I’m not doubting you for a second, but I’ve never seen it before.
From the video it looks like they are using something closer to a Chapman stance than a Weaver. If she really is a new shooter, teaching someone to clear a house is a skill I don’t think should be covered in your first course. That seems like marketing or keep it fun to keep ’em coming.
I took Front Sight’s 4-day handgun course a couple years ago and I thought the “shoot house” stage at the end of the course was a great idea. It’s possible to get pretty self confident standing on a square range and punching paper for 4 days, but the shoot house really brings a person back down to earth just because you realize how much you still have left to learn.
I like the house drill. They don’t spend a whole lot of time with it and while others are doing that, it gives the remaining people a chance to ask questions or relax for a couple minutes.
As far as it being ‘marketing’… since when is that a dirty word for a business? Oh no… they did something that made the class fun and added a little variety… what a gimmick! hehehe
Again, Front Sight does it well… my mother-in-law is in her… well, we won’t go there 🙂 but while she and our friend were pretty worn out by the end of the days training, they finished the course with the often heard ‘I can’t believe how much I’ve learned’… and they both plan on attending again.
And I’m looking forward to the next level… Tactical Handgun! woohoo!
Speaking of James Yeager, he posted a video yesterday asking patriots to attend the rally in CT. Anybody going? I have some free SkyMiles and the flights are light so I am going to Stand With CT.
To the point of TTAG’s expressed commitment now to letting people of the gun express their opinions about training facilities, let’s turn the spotlight on Tactical Response:
According to several well informed sources, James Yeager, was fired, twice, from two different police departments. In one case for wanting to militarize the department and acquire a SWAT team, decides to test his metal by joining up with a private security contractor then screwing the pooch big time while overseas, comes back, sets up shop, with his credentials consisting mainly in taking lots of training classes from other people, then he continually whores for attention with videos featuring his assertion that he is going to start shooting people, resulting in his concealed carry permit getting yanked in TN of all places, and then … just to top it all off, puts photographers down range during active shooting sessions.
So, yes, let’s get some objectivity and stop featuring James “I’m going to start killing people” Yeager around here.
Every single truly professionally experienced trainer I’ve asked has the same reaction when I ask them their opinion of Yeager, “He’s an idiot.” To a man, and these are guys who have been in real combat in really bad places, not wanna-be ninjas like Yeager.
So, if TTAG is going to start trashing training facilities, I’d say it is time to stop the man-crush posts featuring Yeager.
Remember: Never go full Yeager.
Oh, and as for letting folks speak their minds on trainers and training facilities, why is my comment being moderated??
Whaddya mean…”in TN of all places” ?
Now that many non-violent crimes are felonies, perhaps the question is a bit broad.
Punishment is not primarily about protecting society, that is a tertiary end of punishment. So let us dismiss with the non-sequiturs of “if they can be released they can be trusted.” Nor must, or even should all punishment consist in imprisonment. Certain other punishments must be considered. The primary end of punishment is retribution. Keeping with this is just that punishment should fit the crime, rather than the fear of future crime.
I see no problem depriving someone convicted of a crime of any and all “rights”, even life, if such deprivation fits the crime. And if we can lock up a criminal in prison, thereby depriving him of almost all his liberties, we can certainly deprive him of this or that liberty by itself, as long as the punishment fits the crime. He who has the right to the whole, has the right to the part, as it were.
I would say that just as it is fitting to punish someone by loss of voting rights who has been publicly corrupt, it is fitting to punish someone who has abused weapons to harm others by deprivation of the right to use them, even to the prejudice of his own self-defense. And this as precisely a punishment to be sentenced to either instead or in addition to prison. In this it is no different then forbidding free association to many other stripes of criminals.
The question is not one of infringement. If prison is a possible punishment, so is any deprivation less than that. It is just fallacious to equate punishment with prison.
It is a question of penal law. Does it fit with retributive justice that all felons be deprives of this liberty in perpetuity, barring actions of the courts to restore rights in individual cases? No, that seems clearly wrong in that many felonies probably shouldn’t even be felonies, let alone grouped with violent ones.
Does it fit with retributive justice that some caught carry a firearm while drunk and belligerent should be relieved of that firearm and placed on probation that does not allow him to carry for a set period of time in which he can show he has sobered up? Yes, I would say so. Abuse a right in a criminal fashion, be deprived of that right for some term.
Does it fit with retributive justice that a murderer should forever be deprived of the right to arms? Heck yes. Since it would fit with retributive justice to execute him or imprison him for life, a fortiori he may be deprived of other liberties collectively or individually. But maybe bad example since murderer should not be released. But if he is, such a disability, as part of his punishment is no infringement, it is only wrong because it is insufficient punishment.
How about one who commits armed robbery? He is release and part of the punitive measures could be, you cannot move back in that neighborhood, associate with X, Y, and Z. And cannot carry a gun for a set term, say 5 years, at which time said rights are restored absent any further offence.
This seems very reasonable to me. And I cannot fathom how many of you think that the government can deprive you of all your liberties, but cannot deprive you of an individual liberty as punishment. The current classification is wrong. But not without any merit
The reason is simple, punishment is meant for most crimes to be transitory. That is X bad things for X offense not all offenses get a lifetime of punishment.
Now in some cases X is “Life in prison” or Dance the Tyburn Jig but its not the same as after the fact punishment. Its X resul for X offense
And yes this does include violent felons. There is no cheaping out on justice system costs. Ignoring social issues if you want a functional system you have to pay for trials (no shoddy plea bargains or lack of representation) easily managed parole and probation caseloads and prison/jail beds.
Otherwise the costs will be sunk with your civil rights, more erosion of the trial rights, more erosion of the 4th ammendments and more attemots at gun control, i.e collective punishment
I am a member of front sight. First off, I hate all the emails I get about upgrading my membership to get free hotel stay for life…
I went to my first front sight December of 2013. I took 4 day rifle and 2 day pistol skill builder. The rifle course was great. You go from spitting distance out to 300 yards. You also get to go through a “shoot canyon.” They also covered clearing doors with a rifle, but this was like 45 minutes out of the 4 day course and they said, “you should never do this. it is better to lock your self in the room and wait for the police to clear the house for you.”
When it comes to the pistol skill builder, it was a good course, but… First off I hated the fact that I had to beg them to let me take the course without taking the 4 day course first even though I have taken Firearms basic handgun and general defensive handgun along with InSights General Defensive handgun twice. Eventually they let me take it. Their instruction for magazine changes and pistol stance was different from the two other firearms training academies I went to. It was a good class to practice my skills, but not significantly different from what I have learned in the past.
At the end of their courses, you take a test to see how well you did. If you don’t get a distinguished graduate level certificate, you can’t take any of their more advanced courses. I failed the rifle course due to a sprained ankle and not being able to get to prone fast enough, but scored all of my hits for every distance and time other than prone. I got distinguished graduate for pistol, but only after arguing with the guy about not completing the failure drills with in the time limit(I know I did, but he marked me as being late). Run your business how you see fit, but it seems like a money grab to force people to retake the same course over and over before moving on to other things, especially when you are disqualifying people for not changing a magazine fast enough.
I am scheduled to do another pistol course, since I DG’ed pistol, this May.
I’ve had instruction from both Front Site and Gunsite back when I was living in AZ. Granted, it’s been since the late 90’s early 2000’s since I attended any of their courses, but I wouldn’t call the instruction that Front Site provides as bad, per se. Again, it’s been a while, so I can’t speak to their current curriculum. However, to argue that Caleb’s met a few people that needed to be retrained as evidence that the whole training program is worthless is disingenuous. I’ve known plenty of shooters that boast how much training they’ve received, and shoot mediocre at best.
The only argument I’ll grant Caleb is the cost and location. There are better courses that offer more bang for your buck (pun intended). As to his personal attack on Piazza and Scientology, I’m an atheist. I could care less where Mr. Piazza wastes his time and money. I’m sure Caleb’s never supported Scientology by seeing a John Travolta or Tom Cruz flick.
I’m with Caleb on this one. Piazza’s a Chuck Taylor snuggler, a chiropractor, and a scientologist. If all three of those don’t send your BS detector zinging through the roof I don’t know what will.
>Chuck Taylor snuggler,
He’s overly fond of canvas flat-soled sneakers?
Scientology? Don’t like it.
Chiropractic? Quackery.
Dunno what a “Chuck Taylor snuggler” is.
But none of that is important compared to the really important questions.
Is the material good?
Is it taught competently?
Is it good value for the time and money?
Judge Gleeson is a very good judge with a good reputation in New York.
That watch is ugly.
We have tried the politically correct way, disarmament. It’s time to go the other direction and have armament. Find a way to arm soldiers, even if its only the staff NCO’s.
Keep getting shot down like idiots.
Along this line, it needs to be said loud and often…
It was an armed responded that ended it, as often happens. It was not talking, it was not wishing or hoping. It was the presence of someone willing and able to meet force with force that stopped it at 3.
For some reason, that keeps getting swept under the rug by the murder loving gun grabbers.
I have a 223 lone eagle that is jammed. I
need anyone with knowledge as to how to dismantled it. Or anyone with parts diagram.
FS is not operator school.
Nobody forces a student to a Weaver or nothing options
Yes, he sends a ton of emails, but if you know anyone who is a member, you can get in on a promotion where you get a lifetime membership for well under a thousand.
It’s a personal defense school and they need to keep some standardization for safety, but are not inflexible.
Paul G. And all, I agree the prison system is ineffective in our country. Many of the people leaving prison are worse for it and that’s why they end up right back in. I’m not sure if the exact percentage but it’s pretty high, I was at the dmv when I anitially posted. I’m sure we can all agree that many people sent to prison belon there, ad if course there are those who get sent there because of some crap reason. Diane Feinstein is a dumb bimbo who needs to get out of the game and shut her mouth, from this point forward I refuse to even acknowledge her existence.
The main question we should all be asking is if you are convicted of a crime after being released from prison is we’re or not on that second offense we just send you back to prison if your convicted for the rest of your natural life.
It’s a civilian ccw school, not an operator school. The techniques work. Are there better techniques? As an LE instructor, I think so. Are they bad techniques? No. They were cutting edge 20 years ago, and if they killed fine in 1995, they will kill fine in 2014. Gunfighting is much more about mindset than technique anyway.
Their amwayish marketing model sucks, but so does the similar one at gunsite and probably others. It’s important to separate the curricula from the business model.
For 500.00 a day there better be onsite geishas.
We’re all potential felons. Unlike most of you I don’t have the definitive answer. My son is a convicted felon for what I believe is a stupid misunderstanding. No “intent” on his part. Your paranoia is justified.
Technical issue, all of your links seem to be mailto: tags, so they don’t open up websites, they just pop up Outlook
Hooyah SFC Ferguson.
I have attended the four-day handgun course, the 1-day concealed carry course and the 2-day handgun course (this last one I attended with my brother, a colleague and my then 75-year old father). I never became a member of front sight and am unlikely to ever do so.
I have also received approximately 25 hours of other handgun training as well.
Front Sight is a quality training ground. The instructors are extremely nice, helpful, safety conscious and capable. The course lectures were very good and enlightening.
Because they train so many folks, they have systematized their training. You should expect nothing less if there are 20-40 people on the firing line at a time.
I have watched the instructors work with women, old-timers (like my day) and first timers. They do a great job.
None of the other students with whom I spoke had any complaint at all about the training or the attention they received. Which is quite remarkable when you think about it.
On the other hand, in my trips to Front Sight, I never set eyes on the owner, other than in the cheezy membership solicitation videos. The operation can seems like a ponzi scheme, given the extremely low course fees that are out there (Caleb’s complaint that class costs are too high are ridiculous as, for example, 2-day training courses regularly run $100 on promotion), it seems impossible for the company to make any money. This is one of the reasons that I would never join (I am not sure if it will still be around after I have paid in my membership fees). The other reason is that I live too far away.
The owner’s religion is his choice and was nowhere in evidence during the 7 days I spent there.
Given the great value and the enjoyable experience, I would recommend others take their classes, particularly if they would otherwise be in the Las Vegas area.
Because of Front Sight, I am undoubtedly a better gun handler and more aware of the legal and ethical implications of using a gun in a DGU situation.
With the caveats, mentioned above, I would happily recommend Front Sight training to pretty much anyone who doesn’t need operator level training.
Does the 1k price include ammo? That might not be bad, but for instance, Sig offers 2 day courses around 450 I think (but doesn’t include ammo). That’s quite a difference and I’d say the courses at Sig Academy are pretty darn good.
Nope, you have to bring your own ammo.
If you want to see a magnificent display of history, go to the Bass Pro Shop home store in Springfield, Mo. Bass Pro is hosting the NRA firearm museum. it is fantastic
I’ll take the “dumb” gun! No chip to fail, no battery to run down prematurely, no wires to fray. Is your life worth the risk, however small?
Overall Front Sight is a good school. They are very good at some things and not so good at others. They are very good at taking someone that has zero experience with a handgun and making them competent with it within that first 4 day class. They also have some very good lectures that deal with legalities and armed citizen mindset. I never heard anything about Scientology anytime I was there. Cost is a function of how you get into the place. My first time I was given (for free) a certificate by a friend that was a member. He was able to recruit several new members and received a pile of new guns for his efforts. Ponzi scheme? maybe but it’s working. . So far they have $250 of mine and I can go there as much as I want. I have gotten some really good training. Funny thing about training, as you become more proficient you will not have so many grand leaps as you will small things that add up to being a master shooter. I don’t even look for the “grand leaps” anymore. Just take away what you can use, don’t worry about the rest. Interesting that most people that bag on training facilities have not been to them. Front Sight is not the be all end all but it is good. I’ll go back for some more classes and I’ll go to other schools as they become available to me. In the mean time I’ll keep shooting competition, running matches and sharing the shooting sports. The goal being, to become “unconsciously competent” as they say at Front Sight. Word of advice though, drop the email before they piss you off.
So it’s not that we can only trust the government employees with guns, it’s that we can only trust the government employees with guns when they’re using them to oppress civilians?
For all you anti felons out there, maybe you should get off of your high horses and take a look the situation with a clear head and open eyes. All felons are not created equal.
According to the 1965 amendment to the Federal Firearms Act of 1938, convicted felons are allowed to apply to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) for “relief” from the “disability” of not being able to buy and possess guns, but Congress has denied the funding required to process these applications for relief for over two decades now. “The NRA opposed efforts to close down the program, testifying before Congress in support of it and defending the program in the press. “There is no reason why a person who has demonstrated they are now a good citizen should be deprived of their right to own a firearm….We ought to recognize that some people can change,” the NRA told the Washington Post in 1991.”
Basically Congress has spent the last two decades exploited a whole class of citizens through a budgetary loophole.
Why should felon be able to own a firearm? Well let me tell you why I should.
I am a felon. I spent three years in Federal Prison for non-violent drug offenses. While incarcerated I made a plan for my future, took and passed my GED, learned a trade and participated in the residential drug abuse program provided by the Bureau of Prisons which taught me a new way of thinking and changed my life.
I was released from prison almost a year early, spent six months in a halfway house and was given three years of probation. I spent less than two years on said probation, because my probation officer, a supervisor and one of the strictest officers in our region, petitioned my judge to give me early release because it was in his opinion a waste of tax payer money to continue to supervise me. I had reformed.
Now, well over a decade later, I own four companies, two of them multi-million dollar ones. I help to train federal and local law enforcement and military personnel, teach kids self-defense and anti-bullying tactics and change peoples lives for the better on a daily basis through health fitness and wellness training. I volunteer for multiple non-profits, own another that provides free martial arts training gear to deployed military personal and do motivational speaking for multi-billion dollar corporations. I have not used an illegal drug or broken any other law since my release, have a wonderful wife and two children and a life that I love.
But, I can never own a firearm.
Just a couple days ago my 14 year old asked me if we could start hunting. He wants to provide for our family and learn to be self-sufficient. I cannot teach him.
If someone breaks into my home, threatens my children, hurts my family, I will have to watch them. I am denied the right to defend myself or to defend my family.
At what point is a person’s debt to society paid? Law abiding citizen, will I never be considered one of those again? Has the entirety of the rest of the US population never made a mistake, have you not made one? Just as will never again use illegal drugs or engage in any other sort of criminal activity, I will not own a firearm, for exactly this reason, I am a law-abiding citizen, but in what world does this make sense. What about me or my family, makes us less worthy of having the right to be protected from violence?
I don’t know if any of you care, or if I will change any of your thinking regarding this issue, but I am here to tell you that these laws do need to change. We as humans are given fundamental rights, rights given to us by the creator not to be taken from us by any man, the ability to defend ourselves is one of those fundamental rights, but my rights have been taken from me, forever, with no recourse to have them returned. It’s un-constitutional and un-natural, but hey, who am I to say. I’m just an ex-con.
The Smith&Wesson SD9VE is perfect weight and is very accurate. This pistol compared to my CZ75B is pretty light and easy on the wrist; Ladies Love It?? Probably will. This gun IS A HOMERUN So PUULLEEEZZEE Smith&Wesson, Put a Manual Safety on it!!! Many events of people shooting themselves with glock draw from holster and Other Safetyless GREAT Pistols; Love my Glock19 and very Careful with Her….More on california politician LowLife leleand yee who has tried to be a one man wrecking team on the pistol manufacturing industry with his “doj approved gun list” for sale. SACRAMENTO, California (Reuters) – A prominent Democratic California state senator and gun-control advocate was indicted by a San Francisco grand jury on charges of corruption and conspiracy to traffic in firearms, according to court documents released on Friday.
The indictment adds to the troubles facing state Senator Leland Yee, who was arrested last week and criminally charged along with two dozen others in the same case. It details numerous examples of alleged corruption, and says that the one-time San Francisco mayoral candidate accepted cash from an undercover FBI agent seeking to purchase illegal weapons.
The 31-page indictment, which sharpens but does not materially change the allegations against Yee, charges the senator with six counts of corruption and one count of conspiracy to traffic in firearms.
Now that Yee, 65, has been indicted, it will be more difficult for his attorney to argue that the charges should be dismissed, because the process for fighting an indictment is different than the process for fighting a simple criminal charge.
The indictment details charges against Yee as well as his political consultant, Keith Jackson, and numerous others as part of a wide sweep of alleged crime and corruption in San Francisco’s Chinatown.
Among those charged in the indictment is Raymond “Shrimp Boy” Chow, a Chinatown figure who is accused of money laundering and conspiracy in california. And all of those indicted are politico LowLife
Effluence swimming around the sacramento legislature, ag kamala harris and leading up to the most heinous politco of all: gov. jerry (MoonBeam) brown. The whole scenario is driving Good people out of california with its’ idiotic “gun laws” EXTORTING huge sums of money from UpStanding Pistol Makers
Who will NOT patronize california’s Insane Firing Pin ID Stamp Scheme which Violates Federal InterState Commerce AntiTrust Laws, The Sherman Act.
Green card > military ID card
And the pendulum continues its swing.
That is my kids, their mother and myself in this lead photograph. I approve of this.
Welcome to TTAG, Ben.
Whats wrong with Weaver?
What would you recomnend?
William Burke, I tried being more nice this time when talking about thee religions lol. But yeah cult does describe Scientology pretty accurately. Still if people are into that then I’ll stand back and be more than willingly to share my beliefs.
I don’t see why this would even be a question. Of course “full” right don’t exist in many states…
I don’t think KITTEN WHISKER will do it. Neat article
Well, sequels and remakes are pretty popular these days…
MissouRAH!!
My first ever training experience and shooting a handgun came from taking a Front Sights 2 day handgun course back in 2010. A friend of mine gave me a gift certificate there, so I got to attend for free which was a bonus. From my point of view of having zero experience at the time, it really helped me build a solid foundation of proper gun handling and familiarization. It introduced me to an aspect of firearms training I had never experienced before. From there I was hooked on firearms and training. I have taken all of their handgun courses and I have definitely learned a lot from those classes. Every class I have taken all the instructors have been professional and courteous and treated the students very well. It can be a somewhat dogmatic approach they have as the schedule is very regimented and scripted. I have some very good friends who are former instructors from Front Sight and there main issue was that the schedule did not lend the instructor to let the class adapt according to the students. Yes, they are very weaver oriented and that is the style that they teach from day one.
I have since gone on to take classes from a myriad of instructors and I must admit that most of what I have learned from Front Sight, I no longer use. Kind of like when you add new tools to the tool box, sometimes you come across tools that do the job better than the ones you previously had used. I like Front Sight and have enjoyed myself every time I have gone which is what led me to get a lifetime membership. Would I go again, honestly I wouldn’t. In my opinion, there are too many good instructors out there that offer a much more realistic and applicable approach to training then Front Sight does. Front Sight has its merits and like what others have stated, it is very good for introducing those new to the way of the gun. Like they say, you don’t know what you don’t know so now that I have experienced other training schools, Front Sight would not be my first choice to start someone out on.
But we can trust the government to handle a gun registry properly
How hard is it to look at a damn PDF, run an NICS check, look at the prints, and ship a Fµ*k!ng stamp!?
Jeezus, a TTAG comment + 3 pictures, and that’s too much for them?
what other 100 year old design is still used?
the m2 .50 mg….
no big deal though
“Each agency I listed above has FULL military gear and vehicles. Armored vehicles with large bore weapons, full auto M4′s, MP5SD’s, Grenade launchers, Armed aircraft etc.”
Most police forces do not have this full list, but thanks to the federal government they are getting some of it. Concord, NH just defied the wished of the people of the city and purchased a BEARCAT armored vehicle. This in a city with a total of 2 murders between 2004 and 2011. There is NO justification for them to have that vehicle, but since they will have you can bet they’ll find a reason to use it.
forms not available? coincidence?
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/04/us/fort-hood-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
I think the problem isn’t nessescarily individual agents, it’s the political appointees in charge of the agents. The agents who give everybody else a bad name are the guys who take themselves too seriously and have an overl intense personality.
Well, huh. It really IS a slippery slope.
Ever wonder what happened to Hans Brinker on his 18th Birthday?
It was just a moment after this picture was taken that the German, hidden in the tree line, hit the plunger. The first and last all skate charge had a tragic, if predictable, end.
GUESS I GOT RIDICULOUSLY LUCKY WITH THIS SIG DEAL!! THE DEALER OBVIOUSLY WAS NOT PROPERLY INFORMED HOW THIS WORKS, BY SIG. I DID NOT WANT ANY OF THE .45,S OFFERED, WENT IN TO BUY A SCORPION CARRY WHICH I PURCHASED AT $995. I THEN POINTED OUT A SIG OLIVE DRAB 45-22 SITTING IN THE DISPLAY CASE AS MY “FREE”” PISTOL PER THE ADVERTISEMENT. PULLED BOTH BRAND NEW UNITS OUT OF STOCKROOM AND WROTE UP PAPERWORK. OUT OF THERE IN LESS THAN 30 MINUTES!!! MORE I THOUGHT ABOUT IT,WENT BACK NEXT DAY TO TRY AND DUPLICATE THE SALE AND WAS TOLD THE PROMO WAS OVER AND THEY WERE SOLD OUT!! NEVER SEEN SUCH A THING IN MY LIFETIME AND PROBABLY NEVER WILL AGAIN!! ANYONE ELSE GET LUCKY!!!
i wonder how bodes this for VA’s citizenship requirement for MSR’s?
Owning a gun is like having a tattoo, people who own guns don’t make fun of those who choose not to own them. I’ve never seen such misleading and insulting propaganda as I have from the anti-gunners. They’d lump us all in with school-shooting lunatics if they could. I’m fortunate to live in Florida where it’s part and parcel of the culture, at at least nominally accepted, even in “liberal” South Florida. I have a friend whom is anti-gun, in theory. I say in theory because I got a concession out of her after a few drinks…”well, I suppose if I actually fired one, I’d probably understand…”
Off to the range we go!
Hockey officially locked up the title as the most violent sport.
Full restoration of all rights upon release or let ’em stay in the Iron Bar Hotel until such time they can trusted amongst the general population without supervision again.
Can’t shoot like this, but I’ll be hanged if they can hit us anway.
Been there 5 times so far: 2-day handgun, 4-day handgun, 2-day advanced tactical handgun, 2-day shotgun, and 4-day rifle courses. Each time has been well worth the $250 lifetime membership I purchased from another member (selling his older version membership when he upgraded). None of the issues listed in the article above. For the price, for my level of education at the time, for the convenience, it was a great price and good instruction. I’ve taken other courses besides theirs. I’ve competed in many forums (IDPA, IPSC, 3-gun) and the skills I honed at Front Sight served me well.
The man’s name is “Hickok45”, what else do you need? His reviews influenced my last few acquisitions more than any resource available and I couldn’t be more satisfied. Yeah he enjoys Guns and embodies the childlike fascination all us “Gun Nuts” continue to posses, but anyone with any knowledge of proper mechanics, routine maintenance, and even ballistics can easily see Hickok is nothing less than a professional QC rep as all the major manufacturer sends the man their latest product to review. You don’t see him taking 30 minutes to “properly inbox the product”!! he shoots the damn thing! And quite accurately I might add. You sir, are no Hickok45, or even a distant cousin concerning Guns period. Thanks Hickok, the Sprngfield XDS finally ended many years of searching for the perfect concealable I’ve been looking
for that I can actually snap off as quick as I need and group successfully. That’s all you and your in depth review including the annihilation of a watermelon, several tins, carbonated drinks, and yes, you got it, a broke down law mower. Which I consider safe compared to me and my friends shooting televisions and 20# fire extinguishers. I know this is long but I appreciate all the responses and it encourages me that their are still folk out there who like Hickok, just plain like to shoot. Givem’ Hell 45, Run like it pencil $&@#!
I always keep 50 in my wallet I don’t touch and make all of my purchases on debit. Large withdrawals are done in a bank, and I carry 24/7.
My head is on a swivel anyways because I refuse to ever be jumped.
ENBLOC- Translated from the French origin means 8 ROUNDS OF AMERICAN WHOOPASS!
As the Duseldorf Mesherschmidts crossed the the blue line, they noticed that the Chicago Flame Throwers’ goalie had pulled himself.
They shouldn’t have any of their civil rights automatically restored once they get out of prison. The loss of their civil rights are part of their punishment for breaking the law. If they were really concerned about losing these rights, they wouldn’t have broken the law in the first place.
I’d be willing to bet that Mr. Jones being shot had to do with his involvement with drugs in the first place.
As they say, “if you’re going to dance with fire, you need to prepare to get burnt!”
In protest of Bob Costas, the Dutch will be performing their special “high speed/low drag” number set to ride of the Valkyries.
RIP to Otis Mcdonald.
When I use the bank’s ATM, I never approach the unit if there is already someone using it. Just common courtesy. Most people do not subscribe to that policy. And they wonder why I turn and request they BACK OFF!
Reality catches up with fantasy… if you are a libtard. They refuse to face reality.
Tyler? You go, dawg! Reach out and touch someone, as the old crusty dudes would say.
It’s sickening watching the army trying to come up with a non-answer to this. Every ranking officer throwing their rank around pointing away from themselves. I’ve witnessed first hand how the army makes mental health problems worse. This shooting comes down to two questions. 1) How does a normal soldier react to not getting approved for time off? 2) Did this person act rationally when denied time off? The answer to number 2 is no, therefore acting irrationally equals mental health problem. It’s isn’t rocket science. Why make it look like it?
More Range Time, but welcome to the wonderful world of CCW, brother Chicagonians.Gee funny how the BOZO lawmakers and police chiefs of that state are AGAIN, proven WRONG! hmmmm go figure, TTAG people must have a crystal ball. Who could ever imagine a CCW carrier defending himself against HOODS[hoodies which is where the term comes from and HELLO HOLLYWOOD Travon Martin supporters who like to wear hoodies]
Okay, I couldn’t resist the Sig & the Colt.
Not yet.
I’d like to make the point that a vigilante is someone who seeks out criminals and crime in order to take the law onto their own hands, not someone who just happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and intervenes. Armed or not, a good citizen should always intervene as much as they safely can in a situation where a crime is being committed. The gun just makes it possible for said citizen to intervention effectively in a much larger pool of scenarios.
Hey Holder, you want to know what my idea of gun safety is?
Stop arming the Cartels
I actually took the time to respond on my blog, here: http://15handstough.com/2014/04/08/in-response-to-4-reasons-ill-never-go-to-front-sight/
Essentially I agree with many that Caleb had a LOT of misinformation in there. I totally disagree with him.
Mid January 2014 I took the 4 day defensive handgun training at Front Sight… so I know from personal experience. I received so much more than I expected that when I got back I sent Front Sight $400 toward their building plans and transition to a resort. There were two classes for 4 day defensive training taking place same 4 days. My class was 27 people with Range Master and 8 total range training personnel. So that’s about one instructor for every 3 students. What’s more the class is paired up from the beginning joining anyone that had been through the class prior (about half the class) paired with the rest of us. I was paired with a Dr. from Idaho for the four days. So you have 27 people in 13 teams and 8 range personnel eyeballing every movement of the 13 teams. The experienced team member always went first so the less experienced could watch, then it’s our turn while the experienced member watched. It was a blast and I met folks from Alaska to IN and Maryland, Georgia, AZ, CA and Idaho and that was about half the class I got to know a little about.
Cost… if someone paid $1,000 for the class, they did it uninformed or just didn’t care about being a member or spending the money.
Stance, when you have 27 people and you’re responsible for their safety on a firing range, the first thing you do is adopt one set of rules. What… ? your going to let everyone do what they want… No! It’s the Front Sight way, quite wining and get a new attitude. We had military, coppers, 20 something men, women and a couple 70 years olds. Nobody had a problem adjusting how each did it to doing it Front Sight’s way for the class. I’m right handed and left eye dominant and they saw that right off and asked me to shoot right eye. No problem, I did, now after 600 rounds I shoot with my right eye naturally.
It’s easy to say negative things about popular and well run businesses if you don’t have anything interesting or informative to say on your own. Some people don’t like Walmart or IBM, me… I love Front Sight and I’d say you would not find anyone who took the Front Sight Firearms training, did it the Front Sight way, completed the class and complained, They trained 35,000 people last year 2014 and it will be more this year. I’m getting scheduled for a class 3rd week in July and I plan to return at least once a year from IL. Want to go, I’ll sell and transfer a lifetime membership to you and I’ll help you verify it directly through Front Sight that what we are doing is legitimate. They don’t know me… but they know my history supporting their efforts to be successful. I would say the folks that wrote the piece are envious and would not want their own family members to be successful.
I attended a 4 day defensive handgun for the first time back in 2010 and was very impressed with the training, professionalism and concern/ focus on safety for the entire 4 days. Since that initial 4 day dhg course , I have attended over 30 more courses including 4 day practical rifle, 4 day tactical shotgun, 2 day tactical shotgun skillbuilder, 2 day advanced tactical handgun, 2 day practical rifle skill builder, 4 day handgun combat master prep, and 4 day precision rifle, and will continue to attend as with each course I learn new things that help me be better and more proficient with my skill at exercising my 2nd amendment right. Oh, and by the way I live in one of the most restrictive states for firearms…. California. Frontsight has helped me become consistent in my ability and proficiency with any firearm platform and I have nothing but praise for the curriculum and level of competency I have experienced from all the Front Sight staff. Been there, done it and will continue to return for advancement in my skill level and proficiency. Front Sight is focused on training anyone that wants to learn and become proficient with firearms and self defense. Preserving our constitutional freedoms is Front Sight’s goal as should be every freedom loving American.
Great post–I share your experience and perspective –the Combat Master Prep course can stand right up with the other schools I have attended including Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Suarez, Academi , and The best of all of the is Bill Roger’s Instinctive shooting course in north Georgia.
The OP paints with a VERY broad brush. I have not read all the comments so I apologize if this repeats what others have said.
My perspective is from that of a retired infantry and recon Marine with 34 years’ service including 2 tours in Vietnam and a member of the USMC rifle and pistol teams and small arms instructor at MTU Quantico. I run a defensive firearms training company in north Georgia and in addition to a number of FS courses, I have attended courses at LETC/Action Targets, Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, Suarez and Bill Rogers’ school just up the road.
As for FS the level of instruction dictates the course content and apparently the OP’s opinion is based on the entry level course that of course will have aspects that really experienced gun handlers (not just marksmen) will find too basic since the course includes people who have never even fired a gun.
In the FS course hierarchy, you have to DG in that course to move on to much more challenging courses like Advanced Tactical Handgun and the VERY difficult Combat Master. The OP does not indicate what level he or she achieved in the course being criticized.
In evaluating FS as a whole one must distinguish between the actual facility and training and the marketing by the founder. Even so, his efforts have resulted in one of the largest training facilities in the US with i believe the largest student throughput per year of any civilian training school.
As tothe pay of instructors, that is a chronic issue throughout the industry.
The OP paints with a VERY broad brush. I have not read all the comments so I apologize if this repeats what others have said.
My perspective is from that of a retired infantry and recon Marine with 34 years’ service including 2 tours in Vietnam and a member of the USMC rifle and pistol teams and small arms instructor at MTU Quantico. I run a defensive firearms training company and in addition to a number of FS courses, I have attended courses at LETC/Action Targets, Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, Suarez and Bill Rogers’ school.
As for FS, the level of instruction dictates the course content and apparently the OP’s opinion is based on the entry level course that of course will have aspects that really experienced gun handlers (not just marksmen) will find too basic since the course includes people who have never even fired a gun.
In the FS course hierarchy, you have to DG in that course to move on to much more challenging courses like Advanced Tactical Handgun and the VERY difficult Combat Master. The OP does not indicate what level he or she achieved in the course being criticized.
In evaluating FS as a whole one must distinguish between the actual facility and training and the marketing by the founder. Even so, his efforts have resulted in one of the largest training facilities in the US with i believe the largest student throughput per year of any civilian training school.
As to the pay of instructors etc., that is a chronic issue throughout the industry. That they are as professional for the most part as they are, it is a credit to their dedication to the mission of getting more Americans proficient with firearms used for self defense.
I’d only recommend Front Sight to people who are new to handling firearms. For that, I’d wholeheartedly recommend them. You’ll get drilled to death on basic, safe handling of firearms, which is a great thing. For someone like me, who trains nearly every month (handgun, carbine), it may seem a bit basic, and I consider myself a solid, intermediate-level shooter (opinions on that may vary 🙂 ).
I did take a 4 day defensive handgun class + ccw class back in late 2012 at Front Sight (the ccw class alone was worth the trip…I now have NV, UT, and FL non-resident permits), and I enjoyed it. But, having trained a lot more since then, ONLY teaching the weaver stance is a huge mistake, IMHO.
Regarding the DG’ing of a class, it’s not completely based on skill. It helps if you buddy up to the instructors during the class. 🙂 Just speaking from my direct experience.
Front Sight is dynamic in the classes offered, training and testing what you learned. They offer a 2 day and 4 day Defensive Handgun class but you must take the 4-day and qualify at a level to take the Advanced Defensive Handgun class. The end of day 4 test includes range and dynamic building entry and sweep containing numerous test points shoot/don’t shoot, use techniques taught on the range, requires verbal and non-verbal commands as well as creativity and thinking on your feet.
If you doesn’t qualify to take the Advanced Defensive Handgun at Front Sight you don’t have the expertise to move beyond the basics, nor experience to evaluate the Advanced course.
I’ve been to Front Sight, I received more than what I expected and I do know what I’m talking about on Front Sight. They trained somewhere in the range of 35,000 last year. View the testimonials at frontsight.com then contact me for your membership or for memberships to raffle, auction or gift. Doug Tally 312-282-4179 [email protected]
Final thought on Front Sight comments: if a person can’t qualify out of the 4 day Defensive Handgun class to the Advanced class… there is no credibility to take up any position.
Reminds me of my buddy Mike ranting about military strategy years ago. I remind him… hey Mike, wait a minute, you never served, you don’t know anything about the military, where do you get an credibility to Monday morning quarterback a General from West Point who’s been in numerous wars around the globe?
Some people do that without thinking it through by asking themselves ‘do my words match my intent and is my intent truthful to others and myself.
I’ve been to Front Sight four times and I plan to return many more times. I have taken handgun and shot gun classes and plan to take rifle classes soon.
As far as the quality of the courses, I have learned something new with every class. I have not advanced to the upper level classes as I have not qualified as a “graduate” or “honor graduate” however, I honestly do not believe I have reached the level of competence that the “graduates” have exhibited in my classes.
As far as the cost, I bought a membership (for $200) on the web that allows me to attend as many classes that I want for the rest of my life. There are many sources of memberships that allow you the same opportunity for the same or less money. Contact me if you have any questions ([email protected])
As far as the environment, THIS IS THE BEST PART!! I have never enjoyed meeting such a diverse group of people. It is such a joy to meet families, and individual men and women, who are learning and sharing their knowledge with “like minded” fellow students. Front Sight encourages this community experience while you are attending the classes. The last class I took was a 2-day shotgun class and my partner/spotter (we met the first day of the class) was a female judge from California. It is great to hear and share experiences from all over the world. I have always enjoyed my instructors.
Sorry, I forgot to address a couple of issues.
As far as the Scientology; there has never been a word spoken about any religion.
As far as the Weaver stance, they ask you to try it their way but they do not insist that you do anything you don’t want to do. The same is with your grip and many other aspects. That being said, I have improved my shooting quite a bit by “trying things their way.” I am sure there are many fine training facilities out there but because I enjoy the classes, learn every time I attend and I live in the Las Vegas area, I will continue to attend Front Sight.
I worked at Front Sight for two years as a firearms instructor, have taken over 15 personal classes there and have taught numerous classes. I have been a firearms instructor at our State police academy and I own my own training company now. I am not a fan of Front Sights leadership but I am firmly aligned with their goal of protecting the 2nd amendment. In the two years I worked there I was never subjected to Scientology nor have ever been a Scientologist.
Front Sight for the money is the best value out there. Don’t listen to these dudes who have never been there. They don’t know what they are talking about.
I recently upgraded my membership there too. They have gotten thousands of my dollars and I’m happy to do it. I will never accept the end of our second amendment rights! Here is my website so you can see who I am. Boisefirearmstraining.com so you know I’m not some guy from Front Sight putting this on here. There have been over 100 Handgun Combat Masters in the World today. None of them have ever done it using ISO. Just sayin.
A review that posts a business “Sucks” from someone who has never been there is akin to saying the food at a restaurant sucks without eating it. Who cares what an individual’s religious beliefs are. I’ve been to Front Sight twice and loved it. I brought my 12 year old son and he loved it. I think the instructors are top notch. The classes and memberships costs are usually negotiable. The bottom line is the review is totally irresponsible.
They are good at what they do (training). “Training” is the right word to use. They don’t really teach, they simply train their shooters through repetition. This is both good and bad. I own a tactical training business that has students from bare-bones beginners, to former SF and SOF members that just want to keep up with their skills. The latter group teaches me far more than I could teach them. Still; training.
The problems arise with some of his beliefs about firearm handling. Yeah sure, the Weaver is dated, but that’s more about insurance than effectiveness. Guess which stance relies more on body armor, than movement? They came out of law enforcement (insurance) and has found its way into the private world training. My issues with FS are more about the safety and efficiency of movement that his instructors use. Within the first hour of a class that I teach, I can identify the students that have been to FS. It only takes me that long because we don’t start shooting until about 45 minutes after meeting. Their habits have been trained into them, but can also be trained out once recognized. If I can get teenagers to keep fingers out of the trigger well when they aren’t shooting, then getting folks to stop doing “administrative checks” on their loaded handguns isn’t too great a task.
After seeing a few of these students, I felt it necessary to take one of his courses (4-day handgun). Forty people standing on a line (20 in front, 20 in back) did not make me feel warm and fuzzy. After watching the first several rounds of fire and seeing just how inexperienced many of my fellow students were, I was downright fearful. One woman, 7 positions to my right, was a helicopter ride for someone just waiting to happen. I didn’t take my eyes off of her for the next 4 days. Sure enough, she did experience a negligent discharge on day 3. Happily, she followed the other 3 rules and the shot went into the dirt about 10′ in front of her. It was due to being pushed too hard to draw fast and fire; she should not have been put under the stresses that she was experiencing, but they have a manual to follow, so… I will say that the same woman was improved 1000% by the end of day 4, when compared with her abilities on day 1. They pushed her too far too fast, but she definitely improved dramatically in 4 days.
There is value in their training. Not the best, nor the worst. The only way it makes sense, is by acquiring a membership of some level and getting the training for free (minus the $50 annual background check). If you think it’s an investment, you’re going to lose. If you train more than once or twice a year, so long as the place is still open a year after you join, you’ll have gotten good value for your money. Ignore all of the owner’s schemes and “upgrades” and just get in the range time with competent instructors (which they do have in spades). In fact, setup your account with an email address created especially for your membership, then never open that email account again. I know someone that gave them the phone number for Sen. Feinstein’s office on his account. I still giggle about that one from time to time.
Frontsight is going on their 19th year, so they won’t be closing. If you recognized a person with problems, I’am sure the professionals were way ahead of you, after all, they train thousands with an incredible record of safety.
“Incredible”?
You use that word, but I don’t think you know what it means.
https://www.frontsight.com/SafetyReports.asp?Action=ShowSingle&ID=5
7 students with bullet wounds in two years’ time (2013 & 2014) is hardly what most “professionals” would consider “incredible”. I suppose opinions do vary, the other 17 years were pretty good.
It may be ‘incredible’ as represented here (glass half empty). About 1 a year with 35,000/yr trained is ‘outstanding’. Even better is no life changing results and not 1 ‘other student’ was involved, just the student causing the incident. One reason Front Sight is ‘THE’ most successful civilian weapons training academy in the world must be do in part to the excellent safety record.
Sir,
I was just given a lifetime membership to Front Sight and was considering going to a class or two. Your initial post help make up my mind. Till I have my own first hand experience I am going to ignore your blog.
The reason for this is I dislike bigots of any stripe. Why bring up his religious practices? I personally don’t care if someone sacrifices frogs at the full moon as long they don’t bring their beliefs to the instruction and the instructions are top rate.
I have fought for my country and all it stands for including the right for everyone to go to hell in their own way. You should be ashamed.
I’m a Front Sight member, have been to two pistol classes (4 Day Defensive & 2 Day Private) am not religious in any sense (they’re all humorous cults to me, including atheism). As a couple hundred responses reflect, Caleb is flat wrong on pretty much all points, except perhaps Piazza’s alleged adherence to Scientology, which irrelevant to the discussion.
I’ve been shooting for 45 years, have had NRA training, and shot a lot with folks who’ve gone to Gunsite. I’ve learned a quite a bit from Front Sight instructors during my two visits. Since I already shot the “obsolete” Weaver stance (who writes this stuff? hilarious) there was nothing to adopt, for me. However, I did get a few pointers on improving my stance, which helped to shrink and center my groups. My girlfriend is a relatively new shooter, and the instructors have her confidently running malfunction drills, and shooting quickly and accurately. She absolutely loves going to Front Sight. Any place that makes my lady friend eager to buy guns and ammo and go shooting is a very good thing.
We’ve met many, many folks who are on their second, third, or tenth return trip to Front Sight. I have yet to meet a person who didn’t enjoy the experience and gain knowledge from it.
Everyone there, and I mean everyone including instructors, makes fun of Piazza’s constant email badgering and voice mail hectoring. We’ve learned a few tricks of our own, like using a spam filter and ignoring his calls. My, that was tough.
No one there, and I mean no one, has ever even mentioned the term Scientology, nor mentioned any religion, nor Jehovah, Flying Spaghetti Monster or Satan. We talk guns, ammo and shooting…and maybe heat stroke.
The instructors are not “slavish adherents” to ANY technique; on the contrary, what they do say when challenged is, “Try it our way for the class. If it doesn’t work for you, by all means do it your way.” I know, because I differed on left hand revolver reloading technique…now I do it “their” way.
By the way, the times required for Distinguished Grad are no cakewalk, especially considering one must draw from concealment to qualify.
Yeah, reading through these comments makes it pretty clear that the original author was FOS. So I guess I don’t need to look through the rest of the website. You can say I’m just as bigoted as the author, but then at least I’ve sampled his wares. Everyone I’ve ever talked with or read articles by who have actually attended the FS training comes away uniformly impressed.
I joined because I got a great deal on a lifetime membership however I have never been and I do not ever plan on going because their phone advertising is so aggressive that it has totally turned me off from going and all the calls are nothing more than trying to sell a more expensive membership. Right after joining I started receiving so many automated phone calls that I had to block them but Frontsight seems to have a way around call blockers because they are still able to leave voice mails, they are the only one who seems to be able to do this. On December 23 I received a call from Frontsight who has somehow managed to now be identified on my caller ID as All State (it’s not a problem with my caller ID because it does the same when they call my girlfriend’s phone) and left the following voicemail…
I’m Coming Clean with What is REALLY Happening at Front Sight.
Please go to Frontsight.com/truth and Read Every Word of My Confession to You. Please Accept My Sincere Apologies and Penance.
Then Prepare to Protect Yourself or Face the Unintended Consequences of Ignoring the Truth…
Disregard at Your Own Peril.
I got worried that maybe there was a breach of members information so I went to this website only to find out that it was nothing more than a very, very, very long and drawn out advertisement.
Not only will I never use my membership I am going to cancel it and I am reporting them to the BBB for using the All State name to trick people into answering their calls.
When I tried to leave this review on their Facebook page I got a pop-up message saying it was abusive and therefore disallowed.
I’ve been a member for several years now and can say without a doubt that all four of the authors complaints are wrong. I have never heard Scientology mentioned. I’ve never heard of anyone paying $1000.00 for a class. ( That’s the listed price for marketing purposes I suppose.) If you shoot better with the ISO stance than you do with the Weaver then you use what works for you without any fuss. The instructors are helpful but not miracle workers. If your thick headed clumsy or just not meant to shoot a firearm there is only so much they can do. Even if your a good shooter, If your not real careful you may learn something in the classes. One thing is certain. Nobody walks away from a FrontSight course saying they didn’t get enough class time for the money they do spend.
‘ ISO’ is great if all you do is shoot pistol at paper. Even Jerry Miculek says ISO is great, but watch him and 90% he is modified ‘ISO’ , ie, modified Weaver. If your support arm is longer than your firing arm and you have an eye in the middle of your head, then you are shooting ‘ISO’. That’s what physics and geometry prove. If you need to change weapons, from handgun to long gun or shoot from cover, try that with ISO.
Seriously disappointed in Caleb. This was a straight on hit piece, based on hearsay, lies, exaggerations, and personal opinions.
Our family has been through a number of courses at Front Sight. NEVER has Scientology been mentioned, I’ve been allowed to try ISO and compare it against Weaver and have wound up at a place in between with the occasional instructor asking if I was doing it on purpose, or not. They then leave me alone.
Yes, they are geared toward 99% newby training, however whenever I’ve taken a course, there are almost always LEO and/or military there who are always happy by the last day. After my wife’s first course, she outshot here bigshot former military MP brother who prides himself on his shooting. (Really pissed him off too! LOL)
Apparently, Caleb ONLY quoted the retail prices listed for the courses. Shame on you!
If he had done ANY real research, he would have known that there are sales packages available for a tiny fraction of the price. For $1,200 I not only got a lifetime membership, but received 100 Diamond lifetime memberships (Every course they offer, as many times as you like, for life.) to sell or give away. I’ve already made my money back 5 times over. I can also will my membership to my family.
Plus I got 20 Two day gun rental certificates, 50 Four Day Handgun/Rifle/Shotgun course certificates, 50 Two Day Handgun/Rifle/Shotgun course certificates, and $1,200 credit in their pro shop.
Like I said, I’m seriously disappointed in Caleb and not reading his (highly subjective) blog anymore
BTW, it’s easy to opt out of their constant advertising. I don’t receive any calls anymore.
In case you didn’t notice, Caleb shut down the comments on his page after only 1 day of spankings and his snarky replies.
Only the basic classes really focus on the Weaver stance. I’ve taken six handgun courses there and once you get into the more advanced classes, Weaver pretty much goes out the window. For all of you naysayers, go take a class with them with an open mind and decide for yourself. I’m an Army veteran and 20 year police veteran. I’ve had all sorts of firearms training. Front Sight, despite some things I do not agree with, is first rate and has made me the best shooter I have ever been and made me better prepared to defend my life and the public than I have ever been.
LA SWAT requires Weaver, perhaps because it reduces your target profile to incoming projectiles. IMHO, isosceles says, “Here’s my center mass and both legs. Shoot now!”
Caleb GunNuts’ review of Front Sight reminded me of watching Rachel Maddow on MSNBC. Can’t just stick to substance. Psycho-emotionally HAS TO diverge into criticizing every aspect unrelated to the point. Then going back to add in snotty adjectives.
Next, I’m hoping Mika Brzezinski will objectively review NRA recruitment practices!