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The issue of transgender access to restrooms has been on my mind ever since politicians and my leftist friends decided to make a big deal about the signs on the front of bathroom doors. Why are people so concerned over this? Would it really hurt us as gun owners to be logically consistent on this issue . . .

We pull out the phrase “a majority of mass shootings are in gun free zones” or “criminals don’t obey signs.” Now, all of a sudden, some people (including gun owners) think that a picture of a woman in a skirt on a bathroom door in public protects that woman.

This is just a little odd for me to try to wrap my head around. It’s also another great reason for women (and men) to be armed. A sign is never responsible for your protection. You are. So why the big stink (so to speak) about these signs needing up when we want gun free zone signs down?

I’ve seen some weird things in public restrooms, yet I am not scared. I carry all the time. Everywhere I go. I doubt this will be any sort of an issue once I’m in Wyoming. I avoid public bathrooms like the plague anyway because most are never up to my standards of cleanliness. I’d honestly rather do my business outside than in a public restroom because it’s cleaner.

Bottom line: the People of the Gun should be consistent in their values. Since Target no longer has segregated bathrooms, if it isn’t acceptable to you, don’t go to Target. Target also has a no guns policy. That probably hasn’t stopped legal gun owners from carrying in the store. If it has, they simply stopped shopping at Target, essentially voting with their wallets. I fail to see how a law against transgender access to bathrooms will protect patrons (children!) from perverts.

Stay safe, and stay armed. Protect yourselves and loved ones and let others live and let live.  That’s the true essence of freedom. And isn’t that what we all desire and one of the binding reasons we carry in the first place?

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  1. Good point, Sarah.

    I mean honestly- are people under the presumption that transgendered folks have been actually using the “correct” bathroom to begin with? Of course not. To your point, it’s as silly as believing that criminals follow gun laws.

    This “issue” of gendered bathroom signs strikes me as something solely to distract the masses. Hope that doesn’t sound too paranoid, but it just doesn’t seem like anything anyone I knows cared about until all of the media started reporting on it a few weeks ago.

    • Yup-who really cares, they’ve been doing it for a long time anyway, plus lewd behavior is illegal in public spaces no matter what. Charlotte (my hometown) is where this all began and from what I can gather both sides way overreacted to the issue. Take responsibility for your own safety and that of your children. Most women won’t stand idly by while a pervert bothers a young girl in a restroom-most fathers will still enter the women’s room if they believe their little girl is in danger. I will still use single-occupancy ladies’ rooms at the gas station when the men’s room is occupied…fight the power.

      • Let’s get the facts straight.

        The NC law is a response to the city of Charlotte making a Leftist statement that society should cater to the delicate feelings of approx 0.001% of the population.

        The Left just keeps pushing, and pushing, and pushing the standards of society into the sewer and then they accuse the Right of being the “radicals”. For hundred+ years society walked into public restrooms that aligned with their genitalia but now the Left says that is an outmoded bigoted hetero-centric radical view.

        The Left destroys everything it touches. Art, music, education, movies, and society in general.

        • Also for everyone who is ignorantly against NC without understanding, read the bill! It’s only 2 pages and restates the existing law in NC. Plus it only applies to schools and public agencies! Target, PayPal, Coke etc etc etc are free to do whatever dumb thing they choose with their bathrooms and changing rooms, the law does not and never has affected them. The reason it’s a bad idea is, Sarah, it moves the line for what is or is not acceptable. With the policy in Charlotte left intact, males both under age and over 18 can LEGALLY enter and use girls bathroom, lockeroom and shower facilities without fear of being removed. The policy Charlotte imposed would make it a crime of discrimination for any police officer or school administrator to stop said Teenage boy or Man from entering said lockeroom. I am sure you would be hesitant to support that position in your daughters school.

    • I for one, look forward to this new age of gender equality, as us men can now proudly march into the vastly cleaner females restroom, and proceed to shit and piss all over the floors and toilets, as we have been forced to keep our filthy selves in substandard male bathrooms. We can now toil together as a species with those of us who spray shit out of our asses like wild untamed animals. Think I’m being a bit absurd? Anyone that’s spent any kind of time, or been employed as a custodial artisan, can tell you the horrific messes that are found in the men’s room.

      • I worked my way through college cleaning public rest rooms and I will tell you, without a doubt or hesitation, that the Woman’s room is VASTLY more filthy then the Men’s The worst that I have ever encountered in a Men’s bathroom is someone who missed and generally, you can tell it was a little boy using the restroom alone. I have never seen anyone hold a USED feminine hygiene product by the string and just flick it all around in the Men’s room…. I cleaned up some breathtaking messes in the ladies room during those years. I wont even use a public restroom anymore at all unless I cant find a tree to use without being arrested.

        • I worked as a busboy in a truck stop for a while. One of my assigned duties was cleaning the rest rooms on the side used by the traveling public, as opposed to the ones on the truckers’ side. While the men’s room had its issues, nothing I saw there compared to some of the things I saw in the women’s room. Nothing.

          Out of deference to those who may be reading this while eating their lunch, I’ll not continue with a description.

        • I managed a health club in downtown Chicago and worked at a facility for retarded folks many years ago. Women-both upscale/rich socialite types and developmentally disabled are FILTHY. But Sara is right. No little girls but I do have 3 granddaughters 600 miles away. All this BS is easily solved by LOCKABLE doors. Like at the doctors office. I don’t have to boycott Target-I already hate ’em…

        • 30 – odd years back, I had a job that partially entailed cleaning restrooms.

          And I can tell you *why* the women’s room was much filthier.

          If a woman needs to urinate in a public bathroom, rather than sitting on the seat, they will *hover* over it, spraying the seat and everything else around it.

          The source for that information came from one of the females I worked with, after I griped about how worse the women’s room was to clean compared to the men’s…

      • Studies have looked at microbes on various surfaces of men’s and women’s rooms. Women’s rooms were consistently dirtier. The speculative explanation I found most plausible is that little kids are more likely to use the bathroom with mom than with dad. If you have been through repeated bouts of illness with toddlers through preschoolers in the house, it will make perfect sense to you.

        • Ummmm…I believe it has something to do with “a time of the month”. Never wanted to be a gal. lol

  2. You will probably ruffle some feathers with that view, but I agree. I was having this same conversation the other day with a co-worker.

    • Then you and Sara are both missing the point of bathroom signs. A “women” bathroom sign makes it abundantly clear that men:
      (a) SHALL NOT use that bathroom,
      (b) entering that bathroom are violating property rules and (in some cases) laws,
      (c) are subject to forcible removal from that bathroom and property.

      Do the signs themselves literally stop men from using a women’s bathroom? Of course not. Rather, they make policy crystal clear and remove any ambiguity as to why a parent (such as myself) would be forcibly removing a man from a women’s bathroom.

  3. Well I actually think of it as inviting (self inflicted)genitally deformed people into our wives bathroom. I don’t want them given invitation and I don’t care about a sign. I don’t invite criminals into my home and I understand that a sign wont stop them. How about some consistent logic on that Tipton?

    • If by “self inflicted genitally deformed” you mean those who have undergone a sex change operation I don’t think there’s a breath of logic to your argument.

      If they’re post-op they’re already using the restroom of their choice.

      Please also remember our other favorite argument… You don’t have a right to feel “safe” and “comfortable”.

      To further my point, if a man is really hell bent on dressing as a woman and using a woman’s restroom there’s not a damn thing you can do to prevent it. Likely you’d never even know.

      • Oh please, most trannies are not that good. Mr. Jenner is proof positive, all that work, and he still looks like a dude with boobs.

        • Reportedly Jenner also has not had the balls to have a dickectomy.

          Perhaps a penis that wants to visit a ladies room should be removed on the spot. Who can complain? It’s Not going to rape the little girl or woman that it followed in and the wanna be “transvestite” is on it’s journey of stupidity and “discovery”. Perhaps some Obumers machete wielding jihadis/refugees can employed as women’s restroom attendants.

        • I think it’s a good bet the whole Jenner thing is just media manufactured BS anyway. Just like all those ‘reality’ shows that are all staged and directed like any other ‘fictional’ TV. Like the survival shows where they show themselves in makeshift shelters out in the middle of some remote jungle and then stay the night in a hotel because the insurance company made them…

          Sure there are some of them that are genuine, but a good rule of thumb is that if it is on broadcast TV then it’s bullshit entertainment only.

        • This is true, but there are also women who were just born with an unfortunate face.

          There are also some dudes (e.g. dudes in thailand) who don’t look like dudes at all!

    • I don’t see transsexuals as an equivalent risk to criminals. Do you have any data that suggests that transsexuals that obey signs are dangerous in any way?

      • I don’t thing the transgenders are the gun-wielding criminals in this analogy. I think the sex perverts are (e.g. the men who walk into ladies’ restrooms to watch women pee). The signs don’t stop them from being criminals.
        The transgenders who just want to use the toilet in peace would be analogous to the law-abiding gun owners who are blocked from going to certain areas. The signs stop them from doing something completely harmless.

        As for forcing the bathroom to match the genetic gender…
        Which would be more uncomfortable: a M->F transgender walking into the female bathroom and using a semi-private stall, or a M->F transgender walking into the male bathroom and standing at a urinal next to you?

      • They are dangerous to those people’s feelings of comfort.

        Furthermore, which bathroom are they supposed to use???

        A transgender dude in the men’s bathroom is going to make a ruckus if they actually look like a woman because men will think she is in the wrong bathroom. A transgender dude in the women’s bathroom is going to make a ruckus if they don’t look like woman, but look like a dude with boobs, because they are going to feel uncomfortable. Where are these people supposed to take a shit guys?? Are we supposed to make a third bathroom for transgender people? How big a problem is this really??

        • We don’t restrict people’s freedoms so other people feel comfortable. If we did that, gun ownership would be illegal.

  4. I’ve personally never seen any reason for there to be gendered bathrooms at all. If there are stalls theres not really an issue of privacy. Maybe urinals could cause issue but even that seems like a stretch. My middle school had a bathroom that was unisex and had both stalls and urinals and I don’t remeber it causing a single issue. Looking back it was strange that it was there but I never really thought about it.

    • Provided the stalls are built properly, you’re making sense.

      Stalls generally have a foot-high gap underneath the door and the walls between the stalls, AND the door frame has a gap wide enough to peep through. It ought to be possible to retrofit flanges to cover these, after which, there should be no issue.

    • Really…So when a man and woman are in a public restroom and only make eye contact in front of the sink, the woman gets creeped out and tells police the guy did something. Then the police respond to a crazy sex pervert rapist call, question/draw guns/detain/arrest the guy on her word because he admits he was there and therefore her version of the story must be true. Lets say he isn’t convicted. Who is going to pay his lawyer expenses? Just where will a man relieve himself without running the risk of a felony conviction and sex offender registration?
      No thanks

        • Women make up shyt about men all the time. The only new element here is the type of room it happens in. Instead of it happening in a public park, jogging trail or subway station, it will be in the restroom. Besides how is the guy going to prove he didn’t do anything to the woman? Carry a GoPro into the bathroom with him?

      • To those that argue that “Duh, you have a uni-sex bathroom in your house”, stop. Do you have a bank of urinals in your b-room? Do you go in and whip your thing out and urinate while your daughter showers or urinates? “Duh, but I do while my wife showers herp de durp”. Fine, so it’s perfectly okay for me to go into your b-room and let your wife get a look at my dangler while I admire her form through the glass shower door? You have sex with your wife and couples have a certain comfort level around each other. That does not apply to every other woman in the world, if you think it does then you’re a sex offender and hopefully someone will be along shortly to collect you. Unless your a swinger, my guess is you’d do what I’d do if I caught a stranger, or hell, even a friend in a bathroom at my house with my wife or kids while they shower or urinate. It would involve the probability of missing teeth, a possible hospital stay, and maybe a trip to the clink after the first two as you’re dealing with a sub-human sex offender.

        “Duh, so what if someone looks, it doesn’t hurt anyone herp de durp”. Unless you remember that peepers like most sex offenders eventually escalate. So maybe the first ten times he doesn’t do anything, but the 11th time he decides he wants to take the fantasy further. You want that 11th person to be a female loved one? “Duh, but my girls carry a gun”. Great, how adept are they at using said gun while at their most vulnerable? Almost everyone I’ve ever talked to about self defense have grudgingly admitted to dropping their situational awareness completely when they’re on the commode. “Duh, but what if they’re in stalls? Dar, it doesn’t hurt if they just listen.” Same thing as a peeper, they all eventually escalate, PERIOD. Would you be cool with some guy standing outside the b-room door at your house listening to your wife or daughter urinate?

        Now lets add in the other side of the coin, false reports/accusations. All it takes is one nervous Nelly, just because you shook twice instead of once she goes and tells the nearest brown shirt that you’re a predator and that you wiggled your wang at her. As someone put it above the lawyers and fees just to prove your innocence would ruin most people’s lives. Now, what if you lose?

        These people pushing for this say the rules should change because they don’t matter? If they don’t matter then why do they need to change? They don’t, it’s just another assault on common decency. This crap of changing the rules because it feels good needs to stop, FOR THE CHILDREN. That is how this relates to guns, changing the established rules because some small group says so. They always call for changes to gun laws because a small group of idiots say so. Same people, same agenda, different angle.

    • I’m tall enough to see over the partitions in most restroom toilet stalls (with some effort). Few women would be comfortable knowing I’m in the stall next to them.

      I actually like the concept of unisex restrooms. It would ultimately be less expensive to build, but some architectural changes would be needed. Some clothing retailers now have a single dressing room with individual stalls that are completely enclosed.

    • I grew up in a house without gendered bathrooms and I turned out ok. Even in spite of the fact that most child abuse happens in the home. Ban Parents!

  5. You’re ok with the 35 old transgendered soccer coach (male to female, pre-surgery) having a shower with the HS girls…? (NOTE: males transgendering to females…mostly still want to date female post-Trans).

    • It’s not socially acceptable for any coach to shower with their players, regardless of “correct gender”.

        • If you can show me a place where a 35 year old can shower with any teenager and not get in trouble, you let me know.

        • Vhyrus,

          A 35 year old can shower with a teenager in pretty much every locker room in the United States … especially at community recreation centers, community swimming pools, and community sports arenas.

        • Ummm…Former speaker of the house Dennis Hastert “watched” his boys showering…

    • Whole discussion is silly. 1985, my first trip to Korea, I was forewarned that bathrooms are unisex. I figured if it’s alright for them, that’s alright with me. But I was NOT prepared for it to be the night of the prom at the local U.S. Air Force base. After a couple beers I headed for the bathroom and discovered two *American* teenaged girls in formal evening gowns chatting with a boy in a tux, standing directly in front of the urinal. What I did then could and probably would get me a decade or so in prison in America-I took a piss. So far as I could tell, none of them noticed, they were still chatting when I left the room. Mind you, all are under 18, precisely the “children” we are all so worried about, yet, since they lived there, it took no time at all for them to completely recover from the effects of the stupid games we play in the U.S., and would probably take no time to become all giggly when they moved back home. Of course, they were also in the bar to have a few drinks, too, a subject for another time.

    • Wow it is amazing how many people here are so inconsistent. The leftists want to change our culture and society on basically everything. They essentially are stating that it is o.k. for someone’s “feelings” to determine what is true. They ignore the fact that it is impossible to actually change the DNA of a person’s sex based on their feelings. If a person “feels” they are different from the way they are made then society must kowtow to that person so as to not offend. Therefore we the people are supposed to change thousands of years of the truth and tradition because 1/100 feel they are not quite the right sex? Just ignore objective truth people if you support this stuff because it sounds like a pretty good argument supporting the anti-gun position. If you support men in women’s bathrooms then you obviously want to completely change the America that once was. Don’t come crying to me when the Anti’s take your guns because they are all for changing the America that once was.
      Willful ignorance of reality never ends well. Either you are consistent on eternal truths or you are on a slippery slope to BIllary, Obama, and Trump. Have fun with that.

  6. Apples and oranges Sarah. The lack of a sign gives the perv an unassailable defense.

    Who can prove, in a court of law, that the creepy guy in the women’s restroom is a pervert who needs to be locked up and not someone who “identifies” as a woman?

    It’s the same reason we don’t have co-ed bathroom facilities in the military.

    • Who can prove, in a court of law, that the scary guy with the gun is a criminal who needs to be locked up and not someone who “identifies” as a gun owner?

      It’s the same reason we have gun-free facilities in the military.

      • Not an argument. There are legitimate reasons for gun ownership. There is no legitimate reason for a man to be in a women’s bathroom.

        • We’re not talking about men in women’s bathrooms, are we? Perhaps you can’t see the difference between “cis-male” and “trans-female” like other people can’t see the difference between “gun owner” and “terrorist”.

        • Shandower – I recognize degenerate freak. Where did your socialization go astray?

          If this BS actually exists in some .01% of the population then get them a pshink and some “treatment”.

        • Shandowner: a person is either a male or a female. Period. That simple genetic fact cannot be altered. A surgeon cannot change that simple genetic fact. My reasoning stops right there. These folks need Psychiatrists, not surgeons.

        • There are only two sexes and two genders. Anybody who thinks otherwise is in need of serious psychiatric help, not pandering to their neuroses. You don’t pander to a schitzophrenic who thinks there are voices in his head. Why should we pander to a man who thinks he’s a woman?

        • The progressive agenda never ends. At some point the non-progressives need to draw a line in the sand. I’ve drawn my line years ago. Screw ’em.

        • My home has 3 bathrooms, and every one is unisex. Why should a business be required to do something else, and who cares whether someone is transgender or not? Ted Cruz seems to think it is a problem we all need to concern ourselves about, which further convinces me that Ted Cruz is a problem we all need to concern ourselves with. I will not be voting for his reelection as Senator.

        • Simple economics. The same space can serve more people in a male bathroom than a female one. That being said, women are rarely comfortable walking into a room where a half dozen dudes are up against a wall holding their dicks.

        • You don’t personally recognize the social difference between a man and a male-to-female transgender person. Most people don’t don’t recognize social difference between a concealed carrier and a gangbanger. Doesn’t mean that there isn’t a real, functional social difference. You’ve been peeing next to trans people your whole life. Just like these professors who are having a crying fit over concealed carry on campus have been teaching in the presence of armed students their whole life. The fact that this is the first time you are thinking about it explicitly doesn’t make it new.

        • ^ Anonymous:
          Show me your chromosome test and I’ll give you your answer.
          You either have a Y chromosome in every cell of your body, or you don’t.

        • Show me your chromosome test and I’ll give you your answer.
          You either have a Y chromosome in every cell of your body, or you don’t.

          Curtis, why don’t we just administer that test at the bathroom entrance yea?

    • So what’s the crime if a perv is in the wrong bathroom? Giggling? Jacking it in a stall?
      Voyeurism, photographing, harassment, assualt are all criminal. Anyone bent on comitting any of those crimes can just wander into the womens restroom now as it is.

      So really what’s the point of the segregated restroom? It does absolutely nothing to prevent anything.

      No rapist is going to say “shit, I can’t go into the ladies restroom or I’ll get in trouble”

      The only reasonable argument I can see is the one of comfort. Even then you never really know if a man is the womens restroom or a woman is in the mans restroom as it is so whatever so for consistencies sake you’d have to feel uncomfortable all the time unless you were the only person in there.

      • Not an argument. Normalizing men’s presence in the women’s restroom provides a screen for criminals. Unlike guns, we WANT people to be suspicious of a dude in a ladies room. That’s common sense.

        … And yes, Jenner is a dude with some rather egregiously shaped fake boobs.

        • That suspicion is based on nothing. Men are around women all day everyday. At any moment one can attack the other. It’s not like being in close proximity to fecal matter exacerbates the risk of assault.

          There is no natural reason to think it odd or suspicious for men and women to dump and piss or even shower in the same room.

        • Where do you think more rapes happen: elevators or bathrooms? You gonna sell gendered elevators to all the skyscrapers now? Gendered parking lots? Gendered hallways?

        • Doesn’t normalizing guns in society, especially those that are open-carried, provide a screen for criminals to hide behind?

        • Can you name one – just one! – example of a dude pretending to be trans in order to assault women in their restroom?

        • “Not an argument” isn’t an argument. The 4th and 5th amendments provide “a screen” to criminals but we don’t abolish it because some criminals use it to be harder to prosecute. Maybe the nanny state should have genital inspectors posted in front of each bathroom?

        • @pwserge

          Let me fix that for ya.

          Not an argument. Normalizing guns presence openly on peoples hips provides a screen for criminals. Unlike with police, we WANT people to be suspicious of a random person openly carrying a gun. That’s common sense.

    • Nope. There is no unassailable defense to sex crimes, presuming a man walks into a women’s bathroom intent on committing a sex crime. And that’s what you are talking about, while everybody else is talking about peeing where you gender identify.

      Post all the silly videos you want, but you are worried about shit that just isn’t going to happen, regardless of what you believe about “men are men, and women are women.” Sex offenders are a different beast altogether, regardless of whether they are men or women (but let’s face it, they are mostly men). Transgenders in a bathroom aren’t going to corrupt your children anymore than gays are walking down the street hand-in-hand.

      The far better analogy to this is that the likelihood of a male who identifies as female (or even some “faking it” sex offender posing as a woman) entering a women’s bathroom to molest women has as much chance of happening as a “mass shooting.” It’s hype and hysteria based on fear and prejudice.

  7. Yeah, I never understood how a sign makes people safer. You are responsible for you. Carry, and stop whining about how ‘women with d1cks’ bother you.

    • No such animal. A man who gets breast implants and hormone therapy is still a man. A severely mentally ill man that I would want nowhere NEAR the female members of my family.

      • This. And I told the local Target manager that my family will no longer be shopping in that store. The Target policy isn’t what about what parts you have, it’s about how you identify yourself. If my seven year old and 5 year old daughters go into the bathroom and a male is in there, I have no recourse if he says he “identifies as a woman”? If these people really don’t feel comfortable using the bathrooms they’ve been using for years, Target has a handicap/family bathroom, use that one.

        • Do your daughters use the same bathroom that men use at your home, or do you have some manner of operation which avoids that? WTF is the difference? The fear is not sane, not justified, not rational. Just as some fruitcakes say “No one should have guns because something might happen.” The rational approach is to deal with “something” when it happens, not to live in constant fear.

        • One simple question Larry: When does this stuff end?

          That’s right, it doesn’t. The progressives, like gun grabbers, have no end point in which they will be happy and go away and live their lives without telling the rest of us how we need to change. Screw em. I’m not playing their game.

        • “Do your daughters use the same bathroom that men use at your home, or do you have some manner of operation which avoids that? WTF is the difference?”

          Larry, how many people that you don’t even know use your bathrooms at home?

          How many people, that you know OR don’t know, go into the bathroom with you daughter at home?

          Here’s a hint for WTF the difference is: single use vs multi-use. Home bathrooms are singles. One person goes in, closes and locks the door and is not “exposed” to the bodies of other people while in there.

          Not true in multi-use public bathrooms.

          *IF* the stalls were constructed properly and in good repair, there might be a case that the stall has become the “single use” environment that makes it all better. But, we are a LONG way from that right now, so if it’s all the same to you, I simply don’t want my daughter in a bathroom where men can oogle her body.

          If that doesn’t bother you, that’s your business. But get off your high horse thinking there is something wrong with those of us with the working synapses to know the difference between a PRIVATE, single bowl bathroom inside a PRIVATE HOME and a PUBLIC, multi-use bathroom in a PUBLICLY ACCESSED PLACE OF BUSINESS.

        • The last time I saw so many gun owning pu$$ies in one place was the New York assault rifle registration events with gun owners on bended knee before their government overlords. You pu$$ies all came back here today to tell me I’m a bigot and transphobic. Sorry, I will not comply with registration and I will not comply with transo freaks in my kid’s public restrooms. You are wasting your time.

      • The neuroses of the progressive folks should be rejected as such: a neurosis. A person born female is not a man. The DSM used to diagnose homosexuality as a mental illness until progressives got the change they could believe in (pre Hope&Change). Nothing progressives say will change that fact. Trans-whatevers are in dire need of good mental health.

        Y’all should see the viral video of a guy on a college campus asking kids if they would believe he’s a 6ft5 Chinese woman….a girls reply was staggering…. “well, if that’s what you believ, who am I to judge?”

        There’s less truth about guns in this writers stuff as of late, just click-bait.

      • Larry, please, our bathrooms at home are designed for one person at a time, with privacy. Target’s bathrooms are designed for several people at a time. Apples and oranges. I do not want Bruce Jenner types in the bathroom with my kids, either at home or at Target.

  8. The new law says that you have to use the restroom consistent with your birth gender. If my birth certificate says I was born a woman, I’ve had the hormones and surgery and to everyone in the world resemble a healthy strapping man, don’t I cause more alarm if I walk into the ladies’ room?

    If “they” are so concerned about molestation in public restrooms why haven’t they restricted access by known pedophiles on the list to public restrooms nationally?

    What’s the plan? Universal gender background checks followed by genital confiscation? 🙂
    Or a buy back?

    • Rationalize it as you want, but this is about the perpetually offended crowd not liking that there is a door they are not supposed to go through. You can pretend you are a man, use the men’s restroom and no one would be the wiser but you are not and never will be a man regardless of which restroom you use. The problem is that they want to use the opposite restroom and everyone know it, and have to accept it. So you will get your way in the end, because the squeaky wheel always does, but you still are not a man, and Bruce Jenner is still not a woman. To somehow equate this is being anything like fire arms rights is ludicrous.
      We can just eliminate gender specific restrooms, and then I can follow my wife, my grand daughters in and stand guard for them.

      • So to you “Penis” equals man. period. What about a person with a penis & Ovaries? This happens.

        What if you were to have a tragic accident and your penis was removed. Would you cease to be a man? or would you still be a man regardless of the penis removal?

        • For crying out loud, what percentage of population has a penis and ovaries…. good grief. You want to change the rules of decency and respect for what is a fraction of a percent of the population, and a situation that would not be encountered at most public restrooms in existence. But to play along, ok fine we can make exception for those that have both, the doors of the world are open to them.

        • The Rules of Decency:

          A) Treat All persons with Dignity and Respect.
          B) Mind your own business. If You’re uncomfortable with others presence in public – remove yourself, You don’t have the right to remove them. (Unless they are in the process of committing a “Criminal” action.

          What exactly am I trying to change.

        • As has happened so many times recently, The Donald has had the most sensible answer to this question of “what bathroom should so-and-so use?”, when he replied “Whichever one he wants to use.” Duh. That does not give anyone permission to do anything at all other than go to the bathroom. Every damn one of us has unisex bathrooms at home, why the pretense that it has never happened anywhere, we’ve never heard anything so horrendous, we are just so OFFENDED! As per Ted Cruz, for example. People with strange configuration want to be able to pee without drawing a crowd, what is that to you?

      • >> Rationalize it as you want, but this is about the perpetually offended crowd not liking that there is a door they are not supposed to go through.

        Not at all. The reason why trans people want to be allowed to use the restroom corresponding to their choice is because they are the ones actually being physically assaulted in restrooms they’re forced into.

        (At the same time there is no recorded instance of a trans person (or someone pretending to be one) assaulting a woman in a restroom.)

        • “(At the same time there is no recorded instance of a trans person (or someone pretending to be one) assaulting a woman in a restroom.)”

          Um, I’m just curious. How would you know that? It’s not like police reports necessarily record what a person was wearing or how they gender identify.

          Also, isn’t “trans” a thing in the mind…how a person CHOOSES to identify? So, could not there not have been a assault on a woman in a bathroom and the assailant WAS trans, but for whatever of a long list of reasons, that information was not relevant to the documentation of the crime so…you don’t KNOW?

          The best you can say is there are no cases where a person documented as trans assaulted a woman in a bathroom. But that’s a long way from what you said.

          It’s largely irrelevant to the question of who uses what bathroom and what signs are or are not on the doors if changes are made. What happened under yesterday’s rules don’t mean squat today if the rules have changed.

    • Ya, see you don’t know what you are talking about…. The law says that Transgender people who have not taken surgical and legal steps to change the gender noted on their birth certificates have no legal right under state law to use public restrooms of the gender with which they identify. So if you’ve had the gender reassignment surgery and legally changed your gender with the state, this law doesn’t apply to you.

      But don’t the the facts get in the way of your indignation.

  9. How about a no bitch sign, have a look at this one and tell me you aren’t worried about the direction our once great nation is going down.

  10. Using a women’s restroom does not make one a woman, just as using the men’s restroom does not make you a man. So if a person is a man they should use men’s restroom, just as a woman should use women’s. Wearing a dress, or identifying does not change your gender. I am not talking about post op TS, which is not what this is all about. So a person identifies as opposite sex of what their body says they are, ok fine…but they are what they are, and where they use the restroom does not have any bearing on what gender they are so they should not have any problem sticking to the restroom that is applicable to the equipment they are operating. It is a matter of decency and respect for others. 99.9% of this is about men using women’s toilets, it is an insult to women to say that being a woman is just a matter of self identity. The pretenders do not know what it is like to be a “real” woman and what women have to go through physically.

    • Ding Ding! The men pretending to be women have no idea what it is really like to be a woman. They think they know, and they think that is how women feel, so they declare that they must id as a woman, when in reality, they are still a man (or vice versa). Gender is in one’s DNA. Traditional man and woman expectations are on a sliding scale. Some of the men may skew toward what is traditionally considered women’s emotions, or women dress, etc., but that doesn’t mean that man is a woman.

  11. If you don’t know the difference between no gun zones and bathrooms being used by the appropriate sex, never mind. No amount of discussion will help you.

    • I was under the impression that all ages and genders used the bathroom. Do you have some other information? What is the appropriate bathroom and where can I find it in my house?

  12. I guess I’ll take the other side, kinda-sorta.

    Right now, the sight of a hulking physically-male-looking figure slipping into a women’s bathroom would set off alarm bells in most reasonable people’s heads, if they saw it. They might even report it, allowing a member of management a chance to investigate, possibly interrupting an assault in progress (even though some adults are armed for protection, kids/teens are not).

    This will change in two ways, in the areas that adopt these “new” rules. First, people will become accustomed to seeing big hulking Adam’s-apple-sporting folks entering women’s bathrooms, so reporting of possible problems will drop. Second, even if they see something definitely out-of-place, people will be less likely to report even obvious problems for fear of getting labeled as intolerant sexist monsters, when all they are doing is trying to protect vulnerable people from harm.

    But all that is apparently okay, as we have to be prepared break a few eggs (allow some harm to come to children and/or vulnerable adults) to make the latest rainbow-endorsed omelet.

    • Sorry, but that reads exactly the same as a hit piece on open-carry.

      Now, I understand that the issues are not the same, not at all, but you have to admit if you were to try and apply the same standards in both cases you’re going to feel uncomfortable either way.

      • Actually, I’m not a big fan of open carry, either, but for entirely different reasons.

        If you can’t acknowledge the important differences between these two very different things, then I can’t explain them to you with any hope of success.

        • AFTER you said it reads exactly like a hit piece on open carry.

          Flip-flop much?

          It’s different, but you can still somehow use it to support your argument? Lame.

      • It does read much like an anti-gun hit piece. Both are centered on banning things that some people feel uncomfortable.

      • You’re using a “Joey Salads” YouTube video as evidence? Maybe you need to do some more research on that particular source…

        • Why? Who said “evidence”? I just said watch….

          And are you saying this is not exactly how you would expect women to respond when a male enters a woman’s room? ‘Cause it looks pretty spot on to me.

          Men are men, women are women, it’s a DNA thing. Sexual reassignment surgery is flat out barbaric and should both be outlawed and people who perform such things on people should be jailed. That’s my opinion.

      • Problem with that is we have no idea who the women were or where that was. For all we know it could have been his girlfriend and her friends in that bathroom.

    • “Second, even if they see something definitely out-of-place, people will be less likely to report even obvious problems”

      What in the world makes you assume that? In the mall, people are accustomed to seeing people of both sexes, by the hundreds or thousands, every day. By your logic, anybody can just rape, rob, and murder, without anybody reporting it? On what planet? That entire post is just silly, making completely unfounded and illogical assumptions as though they were well established fact.

  13. Given that most people have a CHL don’t carry the entire country is virtually a gun free zone. Shootings happen in place specifically labeled gun free zones because they are typically places where people congregate. It is a case of correlation for than causation.

    Bathrooms are a little different. It is a privacy issue not necessarily a safety issue. Most women do not wish to share private functions with people with penises.. It is not a symmetric problem. Men usually do not get offended is someone with a vagina shows up in the men’s room. Having used the facilities at the Lincoln Memorial on the Fourth of July when women show up in the men room because beer has the same effect on their bladders as men, the usual male reaction, especially when drunk is to display rather than shriek in horror.

    • I do not, ever, plan on seeing penises *or* vaginas in any restroom, at any time. I do not believe that your “most women” spend much time in the restroom checking out the crotches of strangers. Designating mens’ and women’s rooms might allow people to decide which to use, but you should still be able to use whichever makes you more comfortable. And you can drop the arguments concerning things which are themselves illegal, because those things are themselves illegal. Duh.

  14. Have there been reports of large numbers (or any numbers) of “Perverts” caught or at large admitting themselves into women’s rooms that are just not making it into the news?

    Have there been reports of large numbers (or any numbers) of “Concealed Carry Killers” caught or at large admitting themselves into businesses that are just not making it into the news?

    No, a sign will not stop a determined attacker from entering a room or building. And who are these sign posters trying to stop, exactly? Law abiding citizens who are just trying to exercise their rights. In both cases.

      • Mr. 308, I am afraid you got fooled. is a fake news site. It should be obvious to anyone that looks at the other stories on the page, or the About Us section that states:
        “We are KRBC News (Keep Real, Be Cool!). We have been publishing articles for over 5 years. Jordan Loving created Keep Real, Be Cool! initially as a clothing line in 2009. Within a short time, the failed clothing line’s domain was changed into a blog. After a falling out between Jordan and her web developer, she abandoned the old domain, and created And here we are today, to bring you nothing but pure horse shit. Keep real, be cool!
        This should go without saying, but everything on this website is purely for entertainment purposes. We are in no way affiliated, or trying to look like we are affiliated with any local news station.”

        But hey, who needs to fact check when you think you’ve found a story that justifies your beliefs and says what you wanted to hear?

  15. If the bathroom signs we were debating were ‘No Pervert’ signs, then I would see your point. The issue here is that allowing anyone to use any restroom or locker facility they choose facilitates predators having access to potential victims. (You know these laws apply to locker rooms too, right?)

    Yes, I’m sure you can protect yourself. Can you say the same for a 10 year old child?

    Criminals will commit crimes, we know this. We do not have to make it easier for them by permitting unquestioned access to potential victims.

    As an aside, I can only speak for myself, but my objection to this is not due to transphobia. My issue is solely due to the concern that predators will use this as a way to gain access to vulnerable people in a relatively discrete location.

    • Sounds like a complete change of subject. You do know that men prey on little boys right? In the men’s room? Granted access because they are men? That is against the law, and bathroom access one way or another will not change a thing, as illustrated by the fact that it happens now, it will happen without change if unisex bathrooms become common. Because the bathroom and the sign is not the problem.

  16. Everybody complains about Sara using her tits as an expert card about guns, but when she talks about women’s bathrooms, suddenly she knows less than all the guys on the internet.

    To quote a facebook meme, if we’re in the bathroom and you know what my genitals look like, YOU are the one doing something wrong.

    • Why would you even want to use the opposite restroom of your gender? Even if you like to play dress up, wearing the clothes don’t change you and neither does squatting to pee or using a urinal if you don’t have the equipment. Playing Call of Duty does not make a me special ops operator… just as peeing in the wrong restroom does not change your gender so why would anyone even want to make an issue that you should be able to.
      At a gas station before my wife has used single occupancy men’s room because she had to go bad, and there was line for women’s… I stood guard for her and when she came out guess what, she was still a woman.

      • Oh God, I think you’ve predicted the next trend. Keyboard Xbox warriors “identifying” as “operators”.

      • If a guy’s idea of kicks is prancing around dressed like a woman, and he needs to pee, going into the women’s room makes perfect sense, no one will likely notice. If he enters the men’s room, he will stir up attention. Easy choice, no evil intentions involved.

      • >> Why would you even want to use the opposite restroom of your gender?

        Because you have a very serious risk of being shouted at, or even beaten up, if you go into the men’s restroom wearing a dress.

      • As one of “those people,” Sara is spot-the-fuck-on here.

        Be consistent or stfu. My daughters go into a “family” restroom that I stand outside of, or they go into the men’s room with me and men are uninvited at the door. I’ve been doing this since my first daughter was potty-trained and never once has a man taken issue with it. I’m in NC, and this whole debate is so tired that I almost didn’t click on the headline.

        Ultimately, our children should never be left unprotected where supervision is an option.

        • Use caution there, Matt, I’m not certain sensible attitudes are allowed in this particular thread.

        • “Sensible” isn’t’ trying to change the sex of a person based on their feelings. We are supposed to change thousands of years of the truth and tradition because 1/100 feel they are not the right sex? Sounds like a pretty good argument supporting the anti-gun position.

  17. Let me explain, currently if a man goes to a locker room and starts taking a shower with other women, those women can report him and have him removed. BUT if he says he’s “transgender” then the WOMEN are called bigots and many times their gym memberships are revoked.

    Without these laws it will be THE NORM for middle school “tranny girls” aka boys to be allowed in the girls locker room and shower with the girls. Dont believe me?

    Would you let a naked 25 year old man shower next to your 10 year old daughter? (Pre laws) if no then you’re a bigot and a transphobe (post laws) if no then ok the dude with the penis has to go to the men’s room.

    • I’ll confess that I may just not be up to speed here, but I have not seen a shower room built to hold more than one person since I was in college, and that was over 50 years ago. If your 10-year-old is somehow showering with a 25-year-old, never mind gender, there is something pretty wrong going on, seems to me.

      • When we lived in PGC, MD, about 7 years ago, the locker room at the pool had two rows of shower heads that were viewable by all. I don’t think anybody cared. You could have had a man, a woman, a chimp, and an elephant in the bathroom and I suspect the most anybody would have thought was, “stupid elephant is taking up three showers.”

        I understand the concern for those types of locker rooms, but I’m with you on regular restrooms. Woman enters men’s room – she’s gonna need to use the stall or she’ll need something to help get the angle right to use the urinal. Man enters the women’s room – his only choice is a stall. Either way, nobody notices nothing. And as for the weirdo that looks over or under, those types are already found in both bathrooms.

  18. Hate to say it, but overall don’t care. The only thing I really care about/agree to is the idea that signs do much of anything. Kinda like those jagoffs in the burbs of Chicago picketing a grocery store with signs that say “signs save lives.” Give me a break all they do is advertise where to go and get an easy target.

  19. It was during the industrial revolution when women began working in factories that this issue began. Men didn’t want women in their bathrooms. Bathrooms had to be made for women.

    You’re saying if you look like a man use the mans? If you look like a man but your a very masculine looking woman use the ladies?

    Why is this suddenly an issue? It wasn’t five years ago.
    What’s changed?

    Perhaps the pulpit talkers should be talking more about religion and how it can change the individual not how to make public policy.
    I’m afraid the pulpit talkers are getting their parishioners to identify as real if they believe in this or that. We ought to be taking the inner evil out instead of preaching don’t drive Japanese cars because they attacked Pearl Harbor.

    • Why is this suddenly an issue? It wasn’t five years ago.
      What’s changed?

      Because the demtards understand a small portion of the felons they are releasing won’t vote dem. That some of the illegal aliens get accidently get a job/pay taxes and then stop voting dem. But when they promote and create more antisocial freaks they KNOW all will vote dem.

      • “they KNOW all will vote dem.”

        That is because, for them, the GOP is the party of hate, pure and simple, because of the prevalence of people like the Lyin’ Reverend Cruz. If they could ever get back to the concept of shrinking government and cutting taxes, and drop the attempts to control everybody’s lives, that would no longer be the case, we’d just be back to fighting people promising free stuff, no longer able to promise freedom since both parties are the same there.

  20. I mostly agree with you. On one hand, I just can’t recall the epidemic of sexual assaults by men pretending to be trannies that apparently led to this law. Focusing so closely on it, to the point where a presidential candidate is using it to scare up votes, could do a great deal to reinforce bigoted stereotypes. Most of these people are suffering from a known medical condition called gender dysmorphia, not schizophrenia. Every tranny is not Buffalo Bill, any more than every mentally ill person is Michael Meyers.

    On the other side of that same coin, there are a whole lot of sexual predators who escalate from voyeurism. Making this an issue could be giving them bright ideas. People in other states are tripping over themselves to show how much more progressive and tolerant they are by literally putting out the welcome mat for gender dysmorphics.

    • Statistically there are very very very few actual trannies. It’s one more BS manufactured issue of the left. Society has largely surrendered to the demands of the militant queers so then need a new freak issue.

      Apparently this trannies DON’T wack of the jewels they now don’t want. Perhaps some of the defenders of these freaks could explain this?

      As the militant queer BS this is about maladjusted nut case males who can’t get any as a man it’s NOT about women that want to be something else.

      • “Apparently this trannies DON’T wack of the jewels they now don’t want. Perhaps some of the defenders of these freaks could explain this?”

        Defenders? Explain? Why would I CARE? Why the heck do YOU care? It sounds distinctly like none of your business or mine.

  21. The whole bathroom thing is driven by the athiest anti-Christian bigots on the left. Their goal is not social acceptance of the tiny transgender minority, but like gay marriage, wish to use it to persecute Christians through the legal system. AND, it’s not just bathrooms. They want your teenage daughter to be forced to shower with teenage transgender (pre-op) boys after gym class. To borrow a phrase from Kirk Lazarus, they’ve gone full retard on this.

    Personally, IMHO if you (a man) wants to dress up as a woman, have at it. Pay a doctor to mutilate your genitals, it’s none of my business. Won’t get rid of that pesky Y chromosome, but if it makes you happy, fine with me. But why is my acceptance so important to you that you insist it’s the proper role of government to force me to approve of your lifestyle? Some people don’t approve of my lifestyle. I carry a gun. I drink beer. I work with my hands. There are all sorts of people who turn their noses up at people like me, and they can all kiss my ass.

    • Really? Cuz I thought the whole bathroom thing is driven by the Bible-thumping bigots on the right. Their goal is no social acceptance of any minority, but like traditional marriage, they wish to use it their religious beliefs to persecute everyone whom does not share their same religious beliefs. A generation ago it was Colored Only Bathrooms. We’ve seen no Jews allowed. We’ve seen No Irish Need Apply. We’ve seen Every Muslim is a Terrorist. Seriously, Leave people the fuck alone. I’m tired of all the fear mongering and I am not going to live my life afraid of my neighbor. Did you seen the bathroom sign that Kroger put up in GA? That’s how we need to handle this situation. Grow up people!

      • Christians aren’t running around suing people over their sexual orientation or identification. Anti-Christian bigots are suing Christians because they don’t wish to participate in gay weddings, and the courts are punishing them by awarding the anti-Christian bigots hundreds of thousands of dollars. They even took one lady’s home. Meanwhile Muslims are tossing gays off the roofs of tall buildings and the anti-Christian bigots couldn’t care less.

        If you don’t like Christians they leave them the hell alone.

        • That’s a bit backwards, so-called “Christians” have been trying to force me to pray to a supposed sentient gas cloud all my life, and to bow to the lifestyle which *MEN* say the gas cloud demands, including sending my money to those MEN because the gas cloud loves them, or some such ridiculous nonsense. The worst I have done to them in return is a horselaugh, and maybe a “kiss my ass” or two.

          I have never knocked on a stranger’s door to attempt to inflict my atheism on him, but there have been a slew of people pounding on MY door, determined that I desperately needed a massive dose of superstitious nonsense. But you keep telling yourself it’s the churches (which don’t even pay taxes) which are being picked on. When and if that becomes true, it will be thousands of years overdue. Making a huge stink about refusing service of some kind because of religious claptrap is just asking for a lawsuit, just say “OK, whatever” and don’t show up, forget to bake the cake, whatever. Making a righteous stink is what got them sued.

        • So by your logic you should be sued for making a stink about Christians trying to persuade you to join in their rituals instead of just going along with them. Why should a Christian be forced by the government to participate in a ritual they are opposed to, yet a different rule apply to you?

    • “why is my acceptance so important to you that you insist it’s the proper role of government to force me to approve of your lifestyle?”

      Because people who identify as progressives/liberals/democrats actually believe that thoughts and ideas inside peoples’ heads are just as dangerous as a weapon in their hands. Anyone who doesn’t show monolithic, unquestioning support for * X special interest group* must feel some kind of negativity towards its members, and anyone who feels negativity towards those members is already one step closer to becoming the next Jim Crow, Hitler, etc. But things get reeeeeal interesting when the members of *X special interest group* start doing bad things in increasingly greater numbers, because the cheap excuses come out in spades. If transgenders do start molesting kids at the same rate that radical Muslim suicide bombers kill people, watch it happen. It’s always “our” fault because no group or policy the progressive supports can ever be inherently wrong.

    • “But why is my acceptance so important to you that you insist it’s the proper role of government to force me to approve of your lifestyle? Some people don’t approve of my lifestyle. I carry a gun. I drink beer. I work with my hands. There are all sorts of people who turn their noses up at people like me, and they can all kiss my ass.”

      Since you find acceptance and tolerance overrated, you’re fine with people actively seeking to bans firearms, beer, or Christian displays?

      If you dislike people that don’t look, act, and think like you, that is your privilege. However, if you take a ‘kiss my ass’ attitude to anyone that doesn’t fit your narrow world, you shouldn’t expect to receive much respect in return.

      Sara is spot on that the two issues are very closely related. Law-abiding CD and transgender people have been using restrooms without incident and those with criminal intent won’t be hindered by whatever sign is on a door.

      • Who exactly is proposing a ban on gays and transgenders?!? And how do they propose to dispose of them? I’ve never even heard of this movement.

  22. It is a matter of identification, and I don’t mean whether someone “identifies” as a woman today. It used to be that if there was a male in the female’s bathroom, any woman entering would know that that male person was not supposed to be in there.
    Now, a woman has no idea whether that male is there because they are “feeling like a woman today” or there for another less than honorable reason.
    We are going to end up with businesses converting to single person bathrooms with locks on the doors, which will reduce the number of available toilets or urinals and cause lines outside of public restrooms.

    • Now, a Kroger shopper has no idea whether that open carrier is there because they are “feeling like a gun owner today” or there for another less than honorable reason.

      • Apples and oranges. The shopper can go somewhere else to shop. A living person has to visit the facilities from time to time and we’re talking about mandating bi-sexual bathrooms everywhere.

        • Go to another bathroom. Or hold it. Lots of people manage to do this. You’re free to not use that restroom if you want to.

        • Your own actions are completely within your control. Other people’s actions are not. It’s called freedom, get used to it.

        • Be a punk. John Lydon famously just pissed on the wall at a London restaurant. If the establishment can’t figure a way to provide sufficient stall space to keep lines reasonable……. Of course, the punk way to deal with the same establishment’s inability to provide enough cashiers to avoid excessive lines, is to just to roll your shopping cart right past them….. Enough people doing enough of that, and they’d wise up.

  23. Good point Sarah. Consistency is good.

    Anti 2A people want more (and meaningless) gun laws. Pro 2A people point out that murder, robbery, etc. are already against the law. Banning a gun in a church, for example, is trying to make a low-level law to prevent the violation of some big and already on the books law.

    Molesting kids is already against the law. A sign on a bathroom door or legislation making those signs enforceable by law is unnecessary.

  24. This whole thing is absurd. Both sides have essentially taken up the mantra: “I don’t want to use the bathroom with these people over here, so I’m going to use the law to force those people over there to share with me instead!


  25. Great article. I would love to see more gun owners get on board with freedom and individualism, rather than swallowing the Republican Party line.

  26. As it pertains to POTG don’t we hate it when someone has their own facts and then attempts to inact laws that make them feel better.
    The criminal with the gun is the problem.
    My responsible neighbor with a gun is none of my business. Unless he’s sharing ammo. 🙂

    I think the article is saying if we want people out of our business shouldn’t we be out of other people’s?
    Isn’t our Country founded on the right to do what we want and think as we want as long as we don’t infringe on someone else’s rights?

    I get the shower thing. You shouldn’t make other’s uncomfortable. On the other hand what if I don’t want that Hispanic looking kid in the locker room with my kids. They say they have diseases…. Where does it end? For the record this was said about each nationality that came in Ellis Island.

    Why do some responses sound bigoted? Because they sound bigoted. So how can I say I want to be safe around guns without sounding like gun owners are ignorant angry dangerous extremists and we need to ban guns?

  27. The issue, Sara, is that when there are assigned restrooms, it is suspicious and will catch eyes when a man enters the women’s restroom, causing that act to stand out as unusual. If there is no rule as to the gender, any man can walk into a women’s restroom without suspicion.

    I find the whole non-gender identity thing a false premise anyway. We are born male or female, its in our DNA. What one thinks they identify with, doesn’t mean you are a woman (or a man), it just means that, on a sliding scale between traditional “man” traits or thoughts and traditional “woman” traits or thoughts, one may be close to the middle between the two, rather than more completely on the “man” side. Thus, because they don’t meet the traditional “man” definition (tough, manly, unemotional, etc.), they have wrongly assumed that they must be female, when in reality, they are still a man, but tend to lean to the middle of that sliding curve.

    • +1. I understand homosexuality because it has a genetic link, but this transgender obsession doesn’t. No matter how many dresses, hormone injections, and surgeries one has, a man cannot possess naturally functioning ovaries and give birth according to the laws of reproduction and biology. His body will reinforce this by alienating if not rejecting even the most complex surgeries, he cannot be a woman. A woman will never have a naturally functioning nut sack, she cannot be a man. SO, what do we call it when someone goes to extreme lengths to create a reality that they are something they’re clearly not and will never be? An emotional disorder. History proves this, John’s Hopkins pushed for and practiced sex change operations for decades, and they stopped offering it because of the post-op suicide rate among their clients.

      Bear in mind, I don’t hate trans people. My best friend from college is M to F trans and bisexual, pre-op, pre-hormones and all that jazz. He knows that I will call him “dude, man, him, brother” for the rest of his life because that’s what he is to me, and he’s totally fine with that. He’s also a Libertarian and surprise, loves guns, which has gotten him ostracized by quite a few trans and bi people over the years. What does all that tell you? That this push for trans rights is just another front for the Democrat-Socialist party, another bandwagon for them to exploit, same old fvcking song and dance every time.

      • There has never been one published study on humans that proves your “link.” If there are please link it and not from Wikipedia. On top of that people have free will. Even if some link was to be established it does not mean people are pre-determined to act a certain way. Men are not animals, despite what leftists taught you in school.

  28. I have no concern with trans people using the bathroom that makes them feel comfortable. I am concerned with perverts who may pretend to be trans in order to have access to potential victims.

    Punish the crime, but leave trans people to their own devices. They are not dangerous.

    Disallowing law abiding trans people from using a toilet because of criminals is like disallowing law abiding people from carrying guns because of criminals.

  29. It was always so simple to me – if you didn’t want your ass kicked, be nice to the ladies and stay out of their restrooms.

    Guess keeping it simple just isn’t allowed anymore.


    • An important key to understanding progressive dystopias, is that the emphasis is always on ensuring nice guys finish last. Nice, decent people don’t need much of a government, as a handshake is really all the law needed. But that discriminates against the scumbags whose hand noone will want to shake, aka progressives.

      An, even more important, corollary, is that, absent divine intervention, the only way to beat the progressives is to consciously become even less nice than they are. IOW, less nice than Stalin was. It’s obviously not an easy thing for most inherently decent people, but until said decent people start holding their nose, they/we will forever remain slaves to scummy progressives.

      The Somalis only got rid of their gang of overlords, after they realized that the only way to do so, was to look at how universally scummy the government was, and then double down: Chaining the scum to the back of cars and dragging them around for public amusement. Not particularly nice, but It did work. To this day, their government remains properly limited. And, inconvenient as that truth may be, no other strategy, aside from the early Christians’ genuine reliance on faith alone, has shown any sign of succeeding.

      So, the conclusion must be, that in a world where nice guys finish last, anyone who wants to change anything for the better, just has to be less nice than the least nice people around; the sharp elbowed backstabbers that will always and everywhere monopolize all positions of power.

  30. On the flip side, many laws are enacted to allegedly prevent gun violence….using this logic, wouldn’t a law preventing grown men from sharing a bathroom with underage females be consistent as it might prevent sexual offenders?

    • Could be argued, I suppose. OTOH, do you really believe any laws prevent gun violence, beyond the law against murder? Because I don’t.

      • Well, to be complete, the law against murder doesn’t, either. Most people don’t commit murder because most people value human life. The law is secondary to that fundamental belief.

        The gist here is that laws do not define behavior. This is the basic flaw in so much thinking that comes from any attempt at Statist control of individual lives. At Best, laws provide a mechanism for punishment.

  31. Just give us floor to ceiling stalls with no door gaps, and it’ll all be good. I mean seriously, I shouldn’t be able to see an entire stall when I’m walking past a closed door. Oh, and proper handles instead of using the top if the door.

  32. Whatever. From now on I’ll “identify” as a gay, black, Indian, Mexican, woman, Jewish, Canadian. And I’ll get all the bathrooms, handouts, tax free liquor, special treatment, money, and while doing it all I’ll be real F***in polite about it, eh?

  33. It’s one thing to put up a sign saying “all you crazed murderers out there, please don’t murder anyone here” and expect it to work. It’s another thing to _invite_ any man who, for whatever motive he may have, is creative enough to say “I identify with women” or “I feel more comfortable around women” into the women’s restroom where my granddaughter has gone to pee. You’re comparing apples to oranges, Sarah. Signs and social disapproval won’t stop a determined murderer, but they very well may stop an opportunistic peeper from walking into the ladies’ room or the girl’s shower.

      • You didn’t read my whole post, did you? Or you ignored that part where I said “signs and social disapproval won’t stop a determined murderer”–if you need me to say it explicitly, “nor a crazed spree killer”. You are simply replicating Sarah’s error. You may not be comparing apples to oranges, but you are damn sure comparing Shetlands to Percherons. Are you two advocating the death penalty for peepers? Or saying that we shouldn’t have laws against murder? You seem to be saying murder and peeping represent the same level of criminality, and expect the same level of social disapprobation is needed to try to prevent both.

        • You didn’t read my comment, did you? I didn’t go into any of that mumbo jumbo. I’m just comparing your opinion of “opportunistic peepers” to how the banners look at the “opportunistic criminal”.

        • Then you “adopted” the irrational arguments of the gun-banners (which, BTW, you gave no indication you were doing) in order to prove the irrationality of my opposing argument? 1) That’s pretty irrational of you, but 2) I don’t believe you were doing that–rhetorically taking the gun-grabber position, I mean. You were trying to say that my position supports the grabber’s position, when my whole point was that there is a distinction between the two–which point you apparently managed to miss altogether, or are otherwise unable to refute logically. I’ll try once more to make it clear: It is stupid to expect someone who is willing to chance committing a capital crime to be deterred by the thought he is committing a lesser –in most cases, misdemeanor– crime by carrying a gun. It is not stupid to expect someone who is willing to chance a misdemeanor, or something that may not even specifically be a crime, to be deterred by the possibility of more misdemeanor-level sanctions. And it is certainly not as stupid to expect that someone who might otherwise refrain from doing something might be willing to take the opportunity to do it if he is invited to. You are still comparing Shetlands to Percherons.

        • Now, having said all that, Jason, I may have to agree with you and Sarah for an entirely different reason–to-wit, I don’t think it’s the state government’s responsibility or place to tell a property owner how to manage his bathrooms. If Target wants to let any ol’ pervert into their bathrooms, that’s their business–if the pervert commits a crime while he’s in there, that’s on him. And if someone wants to sue Target for inviting perverts into the same bathroom that they invited her into–well, that’s for the courts to sort out.

    • “they very well may stop an opportunistic peeper from walking into the ladies’ room or the girl’s shower.”

      How? Please describe the mechanism by which a sign can do that. Would the peeper’s eyes cease to work? Would the peeper become allergic to soap and water? How?

  34. You know, I come to sites like this to avoid reading the usual ‘news’. I’d rather it not follow me. This article has no place on a gun blog, and I don’t think it serves any rational purpose.

  35. I remember when this place was about guns instead of constant non-gun related political rhetoric.If I wanted to read this tripe I would head over to Huff Po or CNN. Back over to TFB for actual gun content.

  36. When it comes to gun and 2A issues most on here are united for most part in support for 2A causes. Perhaps someone introduced a divisive topic in attempt to drive a little wedge in to create some divisiveness.

    • Good point, maybe behind the scenes there’s an effort to “split the gun vote.” You know, remind all these people that gun owners are bigots by attacking their traditional values, then calling them sexist racists for not conforming to the “progressive” modern train of thought. TTAG has already made it seem like they’d prefer Hillary over Trump. Perhaps this is apart of the strategy. I like the way you think sir.

      • The answer is even simpler, in my opinion: “clickbait”. Capitalism at it’s finest. Just like TTAG’s pop up videos on my iPhone.

  37. I get your point, Sara. If a sexual predator wants to go after someone, the sign on the door won’t stop him or her any more than a “no guns” sign would stop a spree shooter. Fair enough, except……for situational awareness.

    If someone open carries a sidearm in a manner consistent with the law of that place, I’ll take notice, but ignore it thereafter because there is no evidence to prove they intend harm. OC itself is not proof. (For my stats loving friends here, consider this tantamount to failing to reject the null hypothesis.) So there’s no need to take additional precautions or defensive measures.

    Consider bathrooms. You’re already in an extremely vulnerable position, being partially disrobed and separated from the immediate public. You have no sizable span of time for evaluating whether someone is a threat, as you would an OCer, since they’re instantly upon you.

    The only option you have is instant evaluation based on gender. If a female sees a man in the ladies room, she’ll feel an instant sense of surprise and proceed to scream. With these new open restrooms, you’re imposing a legal obligation on people to pause, in their most vulnerable moment, and analyze the intentions of the man in their midst. That forfeits all value of maintaining situational awareness.

    This new Bathroom Doctrine, prevents people from defending themselves by stripping them of screaming’s assumption of reasonableness. It’s worse than a duty to retreat. It’s eliminating any option to flee. You’re removing that last line of defense, why, exactly? So mentally defectives can feel better about themselves? NO!

    If you have gender identity disorder, then seek professional help. You don’t get to force everyone else to embrace your untreated sickness any more than a tuberculosis patient has a right to go about town coughing on people. Open bathrooms is not a reasonable

    Really, if you want to compare this to real rights, then take a look at private property rights. You’re the one being inconsistent by supporting firearms freedom, but denying private property owner the freedom to set access rules to their own bathrooms. It’s absurd and obscene. I won’t click on another of your posts ever again. You should’ve stayed in California with the other liberals.

  38. Owning and carrying a gun is not perversion.
    Cutting yourself to look like something you’re not IS perversion.

    Comparing guns to perversion is nonsense.

  39. The transphobic ignorance all over this comment section is astounding. Stuff like this is what keeps 2A advocates looking like a bunch of ass-backwards bigots. It makes me ashamed to associate with a cause I feel strongly about when it’s so full of this kind of useless vitriol.

    How does this issue affect you? It doesn’t. Trans people aren’t going into the bathroom to victimize anyone. They’re going in there to pee. They want to be left alone just as much as every other person who goes into a bathroom. Everyone wants to be left alone. Trans people aren’t hurting anyone. If someone wants to go into a bathroom to prey on someone, they’re not going to stop just because the sign on the door doesn’t “match”.

    This is exactly the same argument we make all the time about “Gun-Free Zones”. They’re not going to stop anyone intent on doing harm. Forcing trans people to use the bathroom of their birth sex makes them more likely to become VICTIMS of violence. “Allowing” them to use the proper bathroom helps them and hurts literally no one. Trans people are more at risk of violence incentivized by who they are than nearly any other demographic, anywhere in the world. For no reason. If you don’t want to date a trans person, whatever. But you have no right to deny them the same life, liberty and pursuit of happiness that we, as 2A advocates, are so fervent about defending for ourselves and others. You don’t suddenly get to decide that trans people aren’t people anymore just because you’re a bigot.

    • It’s mental illness not bigotry. No one is less of a person in the eyes of man but no one can suddenly say they are the opposite sex when their DNA confirms what they are. Forcing me to approve of perversion is is Hitler-esque.

      • Gender dysphoria is indeed a mental illness. Guess what the cure is? Sex reassignment procedures. It’s not as if a biological man suffering from gender dysphoria is going to immediately start using the women’s restrooms, or vice-versa. Trans people wait until they are “passing” to use the proper bathrooms, for their own safety. All this hysteria about “big burly dudes” waltzing into womens’ bathrooms and oppressing everyone does nothing more than prove that these people don’t know anything about the trans experience. Transsexualism being “perverse” is your own opinion. Not a fact.

        I reiterate: Trans people are not dangerous. They’re not hurting anyone. Leave them alone, and they’ll do you the same courtesy.

        • Females produce eggs which are fertilized by male sperm and grow into babies.

          Transgender females are men who have had their willies chopped off by doctors who think they can play god and should be jailed.

          I feel sorry for them, but they are maladjusted people who society has further perverted, hence their extremely high suicide rate.

          Show me a trans female that can produce a biological child and I will believe you.

          Until then it’s all in your DNA, which is where it belongs and where it will stay,

        • Cloud: Johns Hopkins is one hospital. Best hospital in the world or not, it’s telling that the rest of the hospitals in the world haven’t followed suit.

          It would be incorrect to say that transwomen or transmen are always happy with their decision to have the procedure. Sometimes there are other problems present that correcting their gender cannot address, just as with literally any other problem a person could have. But sex reassignment surgery is voluntary and, more often than not, drastically improves the quality of life of the persons who choose to undergo it. What comes off as “self-mutilation” to you is, for the trans community, merely correcting a biological mistake. By your logic, removing a brain tumor that causes uncharacteristic behaviour is also “self-mutilation”. A delusion [God is speaking to me, personally, and is telling me to stab this child in the face] is different from a disorder. The makeup of the brain in trans individuals has been proven to match the gender they identify with, not their biological sex.

          The fact that this is abnormal is not the issue. The issue is that if there is a way to fix this, and that fix is to correct the body to match the brain, why is that controversial? A transman who literally has the brain makeup of a male, and corrects their body to match this brain chemistry, is–I say this once again–hurting no one. Whether you consider this person to be a man or a woman isn’t even the topic here. The topic is this: Let’s say I’m a transman. I have an operation to remove breasts. I change my name to a man’s name, I dress like a man, I grow a beard, I build muscle mass. You’re in the bathroom washing your hands. I come in, drop a deuce, wash my hands as well and leave. At no point are you any the wiser that I don’t have a Y chromosome. How have you been affected by this encounter? How do my decisions to live my life in a way that makes me happy and, AGAIN, hurts NO ONE, impact you? If you’re getting hysterical over whether the guy who pooped in the same bathroom as you has a penis or not, I’d say you’re the one with the problem.

          Mr. 308: What of females who are born without a uterus? Men born without testes? Are they the opposite gender? Are they genderless? What of people born intersex, with both a uterus and testicles? What are they? Are they maladjusted or perverted? Is a person with both a uterus and testes required to wear a Victor/Victoria outfit everywhere so no one can accuse them of “lying” about their gender? Biological sex and gender identities are nowhere near as simple as you believe. Your vision of what qualifies as gender is antiquated and outdated. We’re learning new things about DNA constantly. It used to be considered a scientific fact that black people were genetically inferior to white people, and thus could never attain the intellectual prowess that whites could. Now, believing such a thing would peg you as an obvious racist who is either terribly misinformed or wilfully ignorant.

          Trans people do not have a high suicide rate because they’re “perverted” or “maladjusted”. They have a high suicide rate because just existing as a trans person is enough for some people to think they deserve to be murdered. Trans teens are at a higher risk for homelessness than any other sector of the US population, because their parents think the same way you do and throw them out of the house. The dehumanization of trans people is why they have such a high suicide rate. Being rendered an unperson is incredibly damaging, especially to a young mind. The ability to produce a child is not the be-all, end-all qualifier of a person’s worth or identity. To believe such a thing boils people down to their genitals. People are so much more than that. All this discussion of trans people always, always comes back to their genitals. Is that really all you can see? Have you forgotten that trans people are *people*? Why do you spend so much time obsessing over whether someone can or cannot reproduce? Is that all people are to you? Cows?

        • Use all the fancy words and politically correct verbiage you want ADM, but I believe I speak for a whole lot of us silent majority type folks in our country by telling you to shove it.

        • “The ability to produce a child is not the be-all, end-all qualifier of a person’s worth or identity.”

          Yea, but it does define your sex.

          As to a woman without a uterus, gee aren’t we grasping at straws here to make your philosophy work for you, or what? So what about a man with no legs, is he not still a man?

          Like I said, show me a male chromosmed human that can produce a biological baby and we’ll have something.

        • Mr. 308. The trans people aren’t claiming to be biologically female (or male). They are claiming to be socially male or female, meaning they live as a females taking on female roles (or males taking on male roles). This is not a new thing. Every culture in the world has trans people. In some cultures the trans person is seen as an advantage, for example they are content to live and work with the biological females doing female’s work, but with advantages like a man’s upper body strength, or no children of their own to take attention away from helping out with other other jobs. The “capable of having a baby” argument for defining male and female is nonsense. There are biological males and females who have disorders such that they can’t do that. They don’t cease to be biologically male or female, and they certainly don’t cease to be socially identified as male or female. It’s simply cosmetic surgery. People get face lifts so they can take on socially younger roles than their biological age. People exercise so they can take on socially “fitter” roles than their unmodified biological fitness would allow. Use a scalpel, use a chemical, use a treadmill, use a tattoo gun, people use technology to change their appearance so they can take on social roles they desire.

        • Junkanoo Jones: There’s no need to be rude. We disagree, and that’s fine, but telling someone to shut up does not mean you’ve “won”. I might never be able to convince you that you’re wrong, and you might never believe that trans people deserve all the same rights as anyone else, but I believe the evidence is in my favor just as much as you believe the opposite. I don’t understand why trans people are such a hot-button issue with Conservatives. I can’t reiterate enough that their life and lifestyle, whether you approve of it or not, has literally absolutely zero impact on your life. I don’t understand why people are freaking out about something that matters so little. Transwomen and transmen have been using your bathrooms forever. Note the lack of a huge rise in sexual assaults perpetrated by trans persons [or “trans persons”, if the hysteria about people lying about being trans to try to have an excuse to be in the wrong bathroom is to be believed] against innocent cis people in bathrooms.

          Mr. 308: Your comment about legs makes no sense. You said that the ability to reproduce makes someone a male or a female: I countered that there are plenty of people born without that ability, with the wrong parts, or with both parts, and asked you, then, what is the sex of those people. Legs are not a gender or sex feature. Keep your arguments consistent. You haven’t answered.

          Furthermore, my argument is not that you can change your biological sex. You can’t, short of going in on a microscopic level and altering your actual chromosomes. Something of that effect is purely in the realm of science fiction. My argument is only that gender is not immutable, and your gender can differ from your physical sex. Sex is biological. Gender is learned. This is not revolutionary information, and should not be difficult to grasp.

        • Don says:
          April 27, 2016 at 15:39

          Well that’s fine, whatever floats someones boat, I don’t really care about that.

          But the woman’s room is for biological females.

          And if it’s only sociological then why lop off the tallywhacker? No one see that socially.

          The trans people we all hear about tell us that they are in fact women.

          Look I don’t expect to change your minds, and you won’t change mine, but I find these arguments absurd. A female creates babies with the help of a male, it’s DNA.

        • Mr. 308

          I agree that cutting off your junk still doesn’t make you a biological female, getting a face-lift doesn’t make you biologically younger, and getting a cool tattoo doesn’t make you biologically tougher. It’s still all social and how people want to live and present themselves (which I don’t care about any which way). Trans people who want to live as the opposite gender w.r.t. our society’s gender roles sometimes want equipment that lets them “be social with their genitals” with other consenting adults in the way that fits those gender roles. So they modify them to fit the kind life they want. The gendered bathroom thing is also a social convention, it’s not a biological convention. There is no biological reason why men and woman can’t pee in proximity to one another.

          In elementary school we thought at the time that unclothed genitals within a few feet of each other somehow transmitted signals through the air to each other which caused pregnancy. We figured the gaps above and below the stall dividers allowed these signals to pass through so they needed separate rooms entirely. We were wrong, it’s much simpler than that and separate bathrooms don’t actually matter that much. Some countries don’t have gendered bathrooms to begin with because they have different social conventions. The other thing is in this country we never before had a big public debate about this “issue” because the social convention was “go in whatever bathroom you look like and mind your own business”. I think we should continue to mind our own business in bathrooms and no one needs to know what anyone’s current or original genitals are in there. If a person is socially presenting as a female go in the female one, if they are presenting as a male, go in the male one. Pretty simple, same way it’s always been, and no new government regulation dictating where a person can drop a deuce. If they can get involved in that business what can’t they get involved with?

        • ADM, I can use just a few words to your thousands: “Nothing you type will change me”.

        • “Don says:
          April 27, 2016 at 18:02

          Mr. 308

          …it’s not a biological convention. There is no biological reason why men and woman can’t pee in proximity to one another. ”

          There is at the urinal, quite biological.

        • Guess what people the truth about humans has not changed, despite what the latest leftist research might say. The very beginning of the bible got it right. “Male and Female he created them.” Genesis 1:26-28. Go ahead and mock away, but the DNA even proves that the sexual difference goes down to the building blocks of man. So keep arguing with the latest leftist claptrap that makes a mockery of logic. The goal of leftists is to speak soft words to try and lull your lying eyes to sleep. They want to turn thousands of years of civilization on its head in a couple of years. Accepting Trans into women restrooms? Just another sign of civilizations decay.