UPS truck
(AP Photo/Patrick Semansky, File)
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By Tim Reynolds, Associated Press

Four people, including a UPS driver, were killed Thursday after robbers stole the driver’s truck and led police on a chase that ended in gunfire at a busy Florida intersection during rush hour, the FBI said.

Both robbers were shot and killed, and the fourth victim was in a nearby vehicle when shots rang out at a crowded intersection in Miramar, about 20 miles (32 kilometers) north of where the incident began, FBI Special Agent in Charge George Piro said during a news conference Thursday night.

Television news helicopters showed first responders tending to at least one person who fell out of the UPS truck, moments after several shots were fired when the chase ended.

In Coral Gables, where the incident began, police said a jewelry store worker was also injured but could not say if she had been shot. There was no immediate update on her condition.

It all began shortly after 4 p.m., when police in Coral Gables received a silent alarm at the Regent Jewelers store in the city’s Miracle Mile area. Coral Gables Police Chief Ed Hudak said during a news conference that two suspects were at the store and that shots were being fired when police arrived.

The suspects fled in a truck, then carjacked the UPS delivery truck and its driver not long afterward to start the chase into the southern portion of Broward County, running red lights and narrowly avoiding some crashes along the way. The UPS truck finally stopped in one of the middle lanes of a busy roadway, caught behind a wall of other vehicles waiting for a red light to turn green. Television footage showed several officers on foot, some with guns drawn, approaching the truck once it stopped from the rear and the driver’s side.

News helicopters were following the chase and at least one showed the conclusion live, with one person falling out of the vehicle’s passenger side after several shots were fired. It was unclear if the shots were fired from inside the truck, from law enforcement who were moving in or some combination thereof.

“This is what dangerous people do to get away,” Hudak said. “And this is what people will do to avoid capture.”

A bullet hit a window at Coral Gables’ City Hall, which was locked down, Hudak said. No one inside City Hall was believed to be injured, Hudak said.

Hudak said officers responded within 90 seconds, including one officer on foot who was involved in a nearby traffic stop. It was not immediately clear if anything from the jewelry store was taken, Hudak said.

Hours after the chase ended, medical gauze, wrappers and other debris remained strewn across the Miramar roadway’s middle lane, next to the truck which still had its right rear door open. Traffic remained snarled, and it was not clear how long it would take investigators to clear the scene.

UPS spokesman David Graves said they are staying in touch with authorities. He didn’t share any information about the driver.

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      • Why wait for facts later, when we can blame the police RIGHT NOW!!! /sarc/

        That being said, the way these things usually go down, I’d give it a 50/50 as to whose rounds killed the UPS guy and bystander.

        • You are from California. You should know better.

          How many times have you seen the Cali police kill innocent people trying to shoot a criminal? Remember when they killed hostages in a SUV when they fired over a hundred round in to it to kill a couple of bank robbers? Or when they killed innocent worker at the grocery store shooting at a suspect as he ran into a crowd. And that time they shot dead an old woman being held hostage by a man with a knife? Then there is that one off duty cop hat shot a man dead for pushing him but before he did that he shot his parents.

          Why would the thieves shoot the UPS driver when he is the only thing that could save them from getting shot by the police? It makes zero sense for them to kill the driver then get shot a hundred times by police.

          I remember I saw this one incident were cops shot a woman dead because the man was using her as a human shield. The cops shot through her to kill him. Then they blamed the dead man for the death of the woman that cops were supposed to be saving.

          Recently I saw another trigger happy Greensville’s deputy do some of the dumbest criminal behavior caught on body cam. She missed a man sized target four feet from her, shooting his mother, then she shot herself.

        • Yes, I’ve *heard* the anecdotes. Multiply those anecdotes by a million and you get a base line for common practice *that I’ve actually seen* where the cops don’t shoot the hostage/victim/bystander/etc. during critical incidents.

          Being from California (San Francisco Bay area), I’ve seen and experienced the crap that cops deal with out here.

        • 1. Sorry, but as of lately. I agree with the TTAG Sovereign citizens…

          2. I DON’T agree with Police Union Stewards on political colorized accounts…

          3. Prefer independent investigations. (Re: Prevent crime scene tampering. You know, political reasons…Like missing or altered Bodycams, or other video evidence.)

          4. Nationwide “Full Independent Civilian Review Boards.”

          5. A Nationwide BAN on “Police Unions.” (Re: Prevents 14 th Amendment violations. So, NO Carve outs, No special privileges…Proper Public accountability…)

        • There is a video showing when the old white man was shot dead by police in (what appears to be) his Crown Victoria. How ironic Drive around in an old cop car then get shot dead by the police when they fire dozens of rounds at you.

          Oh, how America has gotten better like a nice wine. It’s getting better and better over time.

          That video also shows a couple almost dying by the same gunfire. Bullets were whizzing toward them. One of the many bullets is caught on video very close to head level of the man with the camera. His partner is trying to dodge the bullets by stuffing herself as low as possible. They almost both died. The old man that did die in front of them literally pulled his car up right next to them and the camera man yells to the cops he needs medical.

          The other videos show the police shoot the UPS driver dead. The news agencies won’t show you that. They also want to portray the situation as if the police didn’t get caught on video shooting the UPS driver as he crawled for his life. They murdered a father and husband in order to shoot dead two black felons who tried to steel jewelry but got in a shootout with the store staff.

          Law enforcement don’t give a shit about innocent Americans. Don’t forget the shooting happened in Broward county.

          Let’s hear what the police chief thinks.

      • By now you should have seen the video the cops showed total disregard for the the innocents who were trapped in their cars

      • From what I gather the police shot an old man in his car and they shot the UPS driver as he was crawling out of the truck.

        Listen how close these people were to being shot by police. Look at all the people crossing the street in the line of fire. At about 19 seconds it looks like a bullet literally passes by the man’s face.

    • I did not just see this video. T
      Things noticed.
      Speed limited UPS truck 55 mph max with a huge convoy of police vehicles and 4 helicopters following it. When it stopped you can see holes appearing along the sides of the truck.
      Police were using neighboring vehicles with people still inside them as cover.
      Mag dumps at the truck with people in other vehicles either ducking down or trying to crawl to safety.
      UPS driver in passenger seat attempted to get out, died anyway as did a innocent in another vehicle
      Most vehicles still stuck there until the investigation is complete.

      So they killed the vermin but also the hostage and an innocent driver in another vehicle died. Considering how many officers were shooting is is amazing that more were not killed or injured.
      I’m not anti LEO , damn sometimes they make it so hard to not be.

      • Sure thing copsucker.
        This is going to end up a publicly relations nightmare for law enforcement in that area and in the end lots of tax payer money will be doled out. One thing to note, law enforcement in that area is not like other areas. A significant amount of taxpayer money is spent there on law enforcement and as a result of law enforcement.
        Most of my family still lives around that area, I was the only one who wised up and left.

    • You weren’t your mama’s brightest child, were you?

      But, since you ask, I do believe in shooting the hostages. Why don’t you stand over there, and let one of our good friends pose with you, as though he were holding you for ransom.

      • So you would just barge in guns blazing and whoever is in the way gets ventilated?
        Hope those who believe like you do are not at the next nutbags performance art piece
        Paul says, yep we got em, had to shoot half a dozen 3rd graders who got in the way but we done good.

        I’m not anti LEO, I am anti whatever the hell this circus was. Almost seems like it would have been a good Blues Brothers movie.

  1. Opening fire in the middle of rush hour shows the complete callus disregard for all human life by this gang of cops that can be called nothing less than what they are complete PIGS. And incompetent untrained thugs at that.

    Now lets compare how many Times the French police took out terrorists and did not harm even one hostage as opposed the multiple times U.S. Neanderthal thug Cops ended up killing the hostage. Lets face cold hard facts the stats show you are more likely to survive by not calling the police if you are a hostage. A very disturbing reality in the over all training of police in this country.

    I might add the British SAS have taken out terrorists as well and again not one hostage was harmed.

    • And yet… you want the police to come confiscate everyone’s guns….

      In fact, didn’t I literally tell YOU last week, when you were going on about police confiscating our guns, that by next week the police would kill someone and you’d be back to your “fuk tha pooleece!” Attitude?

      You lUberal bots are a dime a dozen.

        • Yep. My next prediction. Next week he’ll be back on his rant about brave, heroic, invincible, socialist police rounding up America’s gun owners with comic book hero like ease.

      • to Merle
        quote————–And yet… you want the police to come confiscate everyone’s guns…————quote.

        Look Genius I never once said the police should confiscate any ones guns. Your reading comprehension is actually below the 6th grade level. I have advocated Universal Back Ground Checks and safe storage laws which are completely different subjects.

        As far as Australian and New Zealand’s confiscations I never condoned them I just set the record straight in regards to what they did and that Registration means little or nothing if the State decides to take guns, in other words having an unregistered gun does not let you keep your guns if they are outlawed. Now what part of this do you not understand. Next time let your wife read my posts to you and explain what they mean.

        • I’m pretty sure you did retard. Everything you write is incomprehensible sewage.

          1. Lose weight. You’re likely too fat to get out of your basement.

          2. Take a history class.

          3. Take an English class.

        • STFU crisco kid, the unrepentant liar. Or should I say vlad tepes, the racist?

          It’s not hard to spot your socialist drivel and bigotry. You could at least try a little harder to not be so obvious. It’s embarrassing.

          You look here, Einstein, you actually have, as a matter of incontrovertible fact (meaning you DON’T get to argue this with me and you’re NOT even going to try) demanded that people’s guns be taken. In just about every fucking comment you post, for that matter. Not only is your own reading comprehension practically non-existent, but so is your basic integrity.

          You HAVE repeatedly extolled us on the (non)virtues of Australian-style gun-grabbing and you HAVE repeatedly called for the exact same thing to be forcibly instituted here. Even though it flies in the face of all available evidence saying that not only do such schemes not work in any measurable way whatsoever at all, but are actually counter-productive.

          WE always set the record straight FOR you, not the other way around, Slick. We know better than you. Whether you personally think we’ve proven that or not is irrelevant and inadmissible. You’re wrong if you don’t. Deal with it.

          And YES, contrary to what you’ve obviously deluded yourself into believing, registration leads directly to confiscation and it IS registration that IS absolutely necessary to grab all of everyone’s guns — which IS the ultimate end goal of any gun-grabbing proposal that YOU support. YES, not having your guns registered DOES mean you get to keep them if they outlawed. The government does NOT and CANNOT know how many are owned and who owns them otherwise, and NO, a handful of high-profile arrests and seizures will NOT make anyone comply, either. That hasn’t ever happened, not even in Australia. So, stop LYING. I know that’ll be hard for you, being that it’s in your nature and all, but you’re not helping anyone (not even yourself) by carrying on with your pathological dishonesty.

          Any (non)argument contrary to anything that I’VE said here is nothing more than self-admitted delusion spun as more socialist lies and drivel, which is literally all you’re intellectually capable of bringing to the table.

          Next time, have your mommy read MY posts to YOU and have her tell you what they mean, which still means you get to shut the fuck up because you’re wrong.

      • Don’t make me laugh Genius. I suppose the American Indians all committed mass suicide.

        When a mentally challenged person points the finger at someone else or some one else’s country guess what? They have 3 fingers pointed right back at themselves and or their own country. You would have known that if you had not flunked History Class.

        • STFU crisco kid, the unrepentant liar. Or should I say vlad tepes, the racist?

          It’s not hard to spot your socialist drivel and bigotry. You could at least try a little harder to not be so obvious. It’s embarrassing.

          You never studied history, either, dumbass. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be a stupid socialist cheering on gun confiscations and proclaiming the demonstrably false narrative of some big blue wave coming in 2020. Shut the fuck up.

      • Something tells me he might be a Frenchman. He sure loves to cite French tv and isn’t shy about his contempt for these U. S. of A.

        • I remember when French military rifles were for sale cheap through Shotgun News. The pitch was, “Never fired, only dropped once.” Not bad rifles, just everything the French builds looks so damn weird.

        • you do know why the French flag has that WHITE section in the middle?

          tear off both ends at EASY tear section marker and INSTANT white SURRENDER MONKEY OR FROG flag!

        • OBOB, copy/paste jokes, already posted thousands of times here and there. The Brits ran away with the French, they jumped in boats near Dunkerque to go back home asap. The government gave up but French civilians organized militias and engaged in sabotage against the nazis. The French have been fighting Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and parts of Africa (particularly Mali) for years. What makes you think you would have been braved during WW2? You have no idea until you live something similar, until then it’s all talk, shoulda coulda woulda, the French surrender, the cops shoulda shot this and not that….I am reading interesting things here, for sure.

        • please anomoousey

          learn English?

          “What makes you think you would have been braved during WW2”
          WTF is Braved?

          And SIR if the French citizens really had fought back…they would have slayed all the Germans
          not sat back and drunk wine and ate cheese for 4 years!

    • “British SAS have taken out terrorists”

      …on their home soil using military ROE’s and guidelines. Left or right, this is one thing I think we can all agree on: the military, especially tier1 assets, shouldn’t be operating on U.S. soil against U.S. citizens. We already decry a militarized police policing U.S. towns. What would we say about a militarized military policing U.S. towns? You think cops with handguns are pigs? Try dealing with Pvt Schmucatelly with an M16 or SEAL team 6 at Ruby Ridge.

      • Ok Rich you made a valid point. I guess I should have compared the British Police last year and this year when they took out terrorists on the same London Bridge and also the terrorist gang that tried to kill people in a nearby bar. Again in the bar the police did not shoot one civilian but they did get the terrorists. And even on the bridge this week they kept their cool and only shot the terrorist not any bystanders and there were a lot of by standers including a nearby bus load of people. Can you imagine how many of those people would have been killed by the stray bullets of U.S. Cops in a similar incident. I shutter to think of it.

        • So, when the British police shoots on a busy street, it isn’t “callus (sic) disregard for all human life by this gang of cops that can be called nothing less than what they are complete PIGS”, right? Because they managed not to hit any bystanders this time.

        • It was the “armed metro police” who shot those guys. Theyre basically the swat team. The regular police sat and watched the stabbings until the good guys with guns arrived.

        • You have no idea, because it’s a bunch of “what if.” There was also that French cop during the attacks at Charlie Hebdo, poor bastard was begging for his life, on the ground, he didn’t have his handgun out! That’s awesome, he didn’t take a chance to hurt any innocent bystander, he took an AK bullet in the melon like a real man. I am goign to play your “what if” game, the overwhelming majority of British cops would quit this line of work if they had to do the same job in a city like Miami, they wouldn’t last a month.

        • Thats no joke….. I forget who, but someone polled French police after the Charlie Hebdo thing and did a similar poll on British cops later, and found that something like 80% of French and British cops would quit if they had to carry a gun. Miami? Those cops couldn’t patrol Pleasanton, CA (Eric Swalwel’s home town) with a mindset like that.

    • SAS and the French GNG have the options of training 50 hours a week and selecting when and where they act. Street Cops work 40 plus hours a week taking burglary reports, responding to wife beaters and doing traffic enforcement. Why are you comparing apples to oranges?

    • Yeah, like the Bataclan Theater, where the police waited almost three hours before engaging the terrorists, leaving 89 dead and hundreds wounded. .

    • STFU crisco kid, the unrepentant liar. Or should I say vlad tepes, the racist?

      It’s not hard to spot your socialist drivel and bigotry. You could at least try a little harder to not be so obvious. It’s embarrassing.

      You don’t know shit, either, comparing elite anti-terrorism units like the French GIGN and British SAS to U.S. metro beat cops. You are only intellectually capable of proving how intellectually (and morally and ethically) bankrupt you are with each and every comment. Shut the fuck up.

    • The French police didn’t save the 89 people murdered by jihadis in the Bataclan, or the 84 people killed by a truck driving jihadi in nice, or the people murdered at Charlie hebdo.

      • Only the Concert attack is relevant to your post the other two incidents were hit and run and the truck incident by the way was stopped by French police shooting the driver and they hit no innocent by standers like the Moron U.S. Cops did yesterday and there were plenty of people on the street when the French opened fire but being professionals they hit what they were aiming at. The U.S. Hill jacks rely on spray and pray not professional shooting skills. That was sure proven yesterday. I bet the French cops were either shaking their heads in disbelief or saying “What else you expect out of untrained hillbillies.”.

        Yep no comparison to the Neanderthal Jerk off Cops that have failed time after time in the U.S. to free hostages without killing them.

        • STFU crisco kid, the unrepentant liar. Or should I say vlad tepes, the racist?

          It’s not hard to spot your socialist drivel and bigotry. You could at least try a little harder to not be so obvious. It’s embarrassing.

          Except that even the hit-and-run incidents ARE relevant to his post. Again, you’re still comparing elite tactical units — the same ones who shot the terrorists in the theater AND in the box trucks — to metro beat cops, dumbass. I bet the French cops were either shaking their heads in disbelief at YOU or saying, “What else do you expect out of useful socialist idiots?” Shut the fuck up.

    • While you didn’t completely convince me that pixelated genitals are going to eliminate the violent crime, it still makes more sense than leftist gun control schemes.

    • “…Japan, the country of pixelated genitals.”

      That’s the soft porn, son. The good stuff has nary an added pixel on it… 🙂

  2. I bet the cops killed everyone. They don’t care about innocent people getting shot. They just want to get their criminal by any means. If you are in the way too bad for you.

    • Yeah I heard they even staged the whole thing just so they could gun down a bunch of innocents on a freeway.

      • I have heard Sandy Hook, the church in S.Carolina, Columbine, Virginia Tech, San Bernardino, the night club in Orlando….were all staged so big brother can come for my guns, all 400 of them and my 200,000 rounds of ammo.

      • Did you see the shooting?

        The cops mag dumped on the black guys inside killing the driver and hitting another bystander. The cops all ran to the UPS truck to open fire on it. There was dozens of people trapped in their cars in the line of fire. The police did not give a shit about those innocent people. They ran up on the UPS truck to kill the felons inside. There was many bullet holes in the UPS truck, there is no way the driver was going to survive the police gun fire. Cops were using innocent people as shields. When the guys in the UPS truck were trying to crawl out the cops shot them.

        I doubt any of those cops are going to get in trouble legally for what they did. They completely ignored the safety of the public to catch some thieves. The end result was two innocent people were killed. But apparently two innocent Americans have no value whatsoever as long as the two black guys were full of holes from government weapons of war.

        Get some!

        • Of course the cops (badged citizens for clarification) just “mag dumped” on the UPS truck without regard for innocents in the area. These “professionals” know the Courts/Judges/Prosecutors ALL have their backs. The courts even allow cops to lie during investigations, without consequences.
          Only the un-badged citizens have to own every shot fired, you know, those who actually have to purchase THEIR OWN ammo to practice (and pay taxes on. IDEA; lets put a word tax on the 1st Amendment, the prog left would go broke with all their lies).
          Hell, some Demonrats want to restrict ammo so severely that only the wealthy will be able to practice.
          But these POS “D” lawmakers will still hold us to PERFECT marksmanship standards in a court of law.

        • As I said further down. When one cop shoots, all cops shoot. They don’t want to miss the opportunity, but with their standard of marksmanship they will miss the perps a lot.

          This is not cop bashing. This is born out by observation. If anyone needs to be called out, it is the administrators who think 2 range sessions a year and a few more dry firing drills equals TRAINING.

          In the Sydney Lindt Cafe siege, the police were lined up to each take their turn of doing a mag-dump on the perp’s corpse.

  3. Moron Ventures on another planet, Chief Censor please go eat a bag of dicks. You should apologize to every plant, and tree you see. For wasting the valuable oxygen they provide.

  4. It never fails, all the keyboard warriors in the TTAG comment section bashing the cops no matter what they do. Well, where were you my sharpshooters? Oh yeah, you can hit the bullseye at the gun range, do they have you on speed dial in case the SWAT team is overwhelmed?

      • Then all the sharpshooters need to apply with the local police, we need more heroes and sharpshooters in the streets. Every once in a while, some law enforcement agencies invite citizen to participate in use of force training/scenarios, these folks have a good time but they usually fail miserably. They shoot an unarmed guy, they get shot before they can get out of the car or grab their gun, you name it. And that’s in a safe environment, with less stress then when real stuff hits the fan. it’s easy to seat and comment, it’s another thing to do their job. Most agencies are hiring all year long, because in our current society and in many American cities you have to be nuts to get into this line of work.

        • Oh, so scary and dangerous to be an American cop, most criminals run from you even when they have guns! Explain to Mexican cops how dangerous it is to be a cop in America. Tell them about all the dogs you had to shoot to save your life.

        • Chief… ask Mexicans how safe it is to be critical of the police in Mexico. Cops are relatively safe here in America and so are the citizens because this is a relatively safe country because of its armed citizenry AND government system embodied in the police. This discussion has nothing to do with Mexico and your point is irrelevant.

    • Do the badged citizens have to take responsibility for EVERY shot fired like un-badged citizens?
      The answers is NO. The Courts/Judges/Prosecutors ALL give you a pass on PISS POOR MARKSMANSHIP!
      Just with that fact you need to STFU!

      • The bastard cops completely had total disregard for citizen safety anyone on this site better hope you never encounter such complete stupidity and i was a cop

  5. Dang it, I am expecting a package from Amazon, I hope UPS gets back into fully operational mode or some other company takes over.

    • “Dang it, I am expecting a package from Amazon,…”

      Good point. I wonder how many Cyber Monday 60 inch UHD panels got perforated when the lead was flying…

  6. quote of the day…from TV chase

    Chase stops..shots fired

    “It looks like the suspects…..are….no longer suspects!”

  7. The odds are EXTREMELY high that the UPS driver was killed by LEO bullets.
    The average cop isn’t the best of shots and most nowdays tend to completely
    empty the magazine in their gun before stopping to assess the results. The
    predictable outcome of such conduct is a lot of bullets hitting a lot of things
    EXCEPT the bad guy.

    • “So that’s why my package wasn’t delivered.”

      Don’t worry about it, it will be well-ventilated when it eventually shows up…

    • The worst thing that could have happened if the cops were not there to kill four people would be the two thieves murdering the UPS driver and getting away for a little while. Luckily the cops were there to get two innocent people killed. I bet they will now hand over the investigation to the FBI… Some great police work there. I even think I saw a cop use an old man as cover while another cop uses a family’s car as cover to pop up and send some rounds toward the UPS truck where the hostage is.

      The last time two criminals took a UPS driver hostage and used the truck to flee, the cops waited until the driver was not in danger before they shot the criminal who didn’t want to put down the gun. They took the other criminal alive. You can watch the interviews from the driver because he is not dead.

    • When one cop shoots, all cops shoot. They don’t want to miss the opportunity. But they will miss the crooks a lot.

  8. Well, it was a draw. Two to two, sounds a train. Good thing is no merchandise was permanently lost. Just be in an evidence locker for years. Good job.

  9. Well, it’s pretty obvious to everyone sane that ALL OF YOU ARE WRONG! (Not that I actually read through the comments… is it really necessary? No. Because FACTS.) We have some serious disinformation being bandied around here.

    Four dead. Guns. Duh in the definitive– this was a MASS SHOOTING. This is obviously another Mass Shooting in the uberepidemic sweeping across America like ants on a fallen lollipop. So, let’s gets our facts straight, and classify this as we know it should be, because Gun Violence.

    I think that this article’s headline needs to be changed to reflect the desperate reality of today’s out-of-control mass shooting gun violence epidemic. Lockdown drills at all UPS package centers should also commence immediately. Brown needs to Hide, Run, Fight!

    And, while we’re swimming in reality, we should all get a grip and realize it’s only a matter of time before these weapons kill us all, not just “Florida Man.” Here you guys are, arguing about whether the cops’ bullets killed people, or the robbers shot people… Hellllllo– IT’S THE GUNS!

    And that’s the truth (re: what blog did you think you were reading, anyway…focus, people). Y’all heard it loud and clear, so dooooo something. Children are at risk. And so are their Amazon Christmas packages. March for our Packages… laws are weak, and a whole truck is late… how is this acceptable?

    Be safe. Mort (actual/AZ)

  10. Never seen so many fucking LE experts in my life. None of you criticizing could handle a situation like this without dying. Pitiful keyboard warriors talking shit from the living room. Nobody cares what you think about the situation, so please stop blabbering your diarrhea about how it should have been done.

  11. I watched this live, as it was happening. My first thought was to Imagine if it was an average Joe concealed carry guy who shot like this. They’re be in jail, sued, and vilified in the press. This incident is more proof of the study that showed the average policeman is much less accurate under stress than a gun enthusiast with a concealed carry license. The average cop may go to the shooting range once or twice a year to qualify, which is much less than a gun enthusiast. This also shows that while those with a CCL are required to account for every bullet sent downrange, the police don’t seem to be held to the same standard of safety. I also think this incident shows a lack of training and standards for this area of the country, because I know that the rules and standards for most of the modern large metro police forces focus much more on the safety of the public downrange. In those other police forces, I’ve seen the officers get as many people as possible out of the way before engaging the criminal, in most instances. Now this did develop rather quickly, and the criminals were also shooting wildly, but shooting from behind a slowly moving vehicle driven by a civilian is not S.O.P. in most police departments.

    • I like your point that an ordinary citizen would be held accountable for every bullet fired in self defense.

      The doctrine of “qualified immunity” lets police officers get away with recklessness and callousness.

    • Their training was insufficient. 3rd rule of gun safety: be sure if your target and what’s beyond it. In my training, they drill into our heads to be aware of who is behind the target, not just for misses, but also passthrough potential. It does no good for a team to stop an active shooter and kill the students or parishioners themselves. Would you go guns blazing against a bad guy if your family were standing behind him? Hold your fire, find a different angle, use other means, etc. With a team as large as the police had, several could attempt to hold off the bad guys while others evacuated bystanders to create clear lanes of fire, wait for SWAT or negotiators, or let the pursuit continue to a safer area. Only if the bad guys are already or about to kill the innocents should you risk killing some yourself in order to save more.

  12. The information released so far on this incident is very sparse.

    Who were the robbers? Why did the police open fire in a crowded traffic jam surrounded by blocked cars full of innocent bystanders – were they being fired at first by the robbers? One would think the first priority would be protection of the bystanders, it’s not clear that was how the cops were prioritizing their actions.

      • STFU crisco kid, the unrepentant liar. Or should I say vlad tepes, the racist?

        It’s not hard to spot your socialist drivel and bigotry. You could at least try a little harder to not be so obvious. It’s embarrassing.

        You don’t even know all of the facts yourself yet, and judging by how each and every one of your claims is always systematically demolished, you never will, either — because you just don’t want to. Shut the fuck up.

        • Socialists love law enforcement. Without law enforcement how will their socialist policies be implemented by “soy boys” against Americans? They need a strong militarized police force to make people comply.

          Socialists wouldn’t mind a national police force with a standardized policy and they want non for profit government owned prisons. Everything has to controlled and owned by the government that they run. You can’t have private anything, including owning your own firearms.

  13. I am actually looking forward to AI replacing metropolitan police forces. Devoid of emotion, AI is bound to to a better job. Wannabe operators get caught up and therefore fuck up on the regular. Was the mission to protect and serve or to seek and destroy?

    Entry level pay for peacekeepers and public school teachers is so low that one has to wonder why anyone would sign-up. Are they Sociopathic? Stupid? Lazy? or Altruistic? Magnanimous? It’s a mix.
    Raise the pay! Psych eval the freaks out of contention for employment. Put and end to gypsy cops. Just raise the fuckin’ standards. Is that too much to ask?

  14. I used to live in Watertown MA, I watched the shootout between the Police and the Marathon bombers. I had stray fire from the police hit my house, I also watched as stray rounds hit one of their own. Several hundred rounds fired with minimal hits. My neighbor had his bedroom wall lit up from police fire. It’s a tough situation to be in, but with that many people around, it could have been a lot worse. There will be quite the investigation.


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